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What is your perception of the job market today and future?

Discussion in 'Pre-Pharmacy' started by sozetone, Oct 21, 2018.

  1. VictorOfHungerGames

    VictorOfHungerGames May the odds be ever in your favor

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    What is your exit strategy? Are you talking about as a pharmacist or if being a pharmacist doesn't work out, you got something else already lined up? I was thinking just opening my own pharmacy soon or go into industry or research for more job stability reasons. What else could you do with a pharmd?
     
  2. OP
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    sozetone

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    no, I'm leaving the field entirely. It's all jacked up....Anything "retail" "corporate" or "pharmacy" should not be in anybodys job title anymore. Let the millenials sort it out.
     
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  3. VictorOfHungerGames

    VictorOfHungerGames May the odds be ever in your favor

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    I see. So what are you going to do? I thought about med school or maybe PA. PA doesn't make as much and med school is too long haha.
     
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  4. Saisri_PharmStdnt

    Saisri_PharmStdnt Class of 2023
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    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” ― Edmund Burke

    For Reference:

    Generation Years.png

    ( <== Gen-X :) )
     
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  5. VictorOfHungerGames

    VictorOfHungerGames May the odds be ever in your favor

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    I'm not entirely sure what your point is but... will take a wild guess that you want people to do something about what is happening... haha any specific ideas?
     
  6. Saisri_PharmStdnt

    Saisri_PharmStdnt Class of 2023
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    That portion was related to:

    If people give up on things (Current practices, policies, politics even, current trends etc), then you there's only so much complaining you can do because you didn't try to change it.

    Even where I am, not everything is perfect. But I try to work on the things that aren't perfect to make them better. I don't give up on things because I'm in the middle of 2 generations who have completely different approaches. And this isn't me calling out sozetone at all. It's a common attitude held by many in life, in the workplace, everywhere.

    Personally, I try not to give up things or people easily. It's just my personality. But part of that comes from life experience. I'm a mom, wife, student, corporate trainer, adjunct faculty, etc.. So as a future pharmacist, I would expect I would still approach people and situations as I do today, just with a lot more training :)

    To specifically answer your question - No, I don't have specifics on how I can personally change an industry.. But I do plan on working to change a department, a network, and perhaps eventually a company.. Baby steps :)
     
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  7. VictorOfHungerGames

    VictorOfHungerGames May the odds be ever in your favor

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    Yes, we need more idealists like you. At least so that we can keep the hope alive haha. I want to believe that I am in a somewhat of influential position right now but still feel like there really isn't much I can do to stop this ship from sinking.

    I have ideas that I have presented to my school, my state board, hell to even my colleagues and direct bosses but nope, only answer I got was... it's not realistic. lol

    But then I guess it's like everything else in our society, just follow the money. Can't beat'em, join'em. You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
     
  8. BC_89

    Moderator Lifetime Donor Verified Expert Verified Account 2+ Year Member

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    I always try to compare my opportunity with risk. Getting steady pension while in school plus housing cost (tax free) in a 3 yr accelerated program means debt free.

    Well, with a working spouse and degree in hand, even working part time would at worse mean I make as much as I do now ... Also a chance to maintain my hobby investments and hope to gain additional steady income from them.

    If all jobs were wiped out I still have enough passive income to cover living expenses...I know I’ll be alright but truth be told, I’m tempted to just simply do a welding side gig and remain content to enjoy things outside of work...In the end, the entitlements I’ve earned for higher education can’t go to my kids or wife so I’ll put it in the scope of work I’ve been doing 60-80 hours a week as a military tech...

    I guess what I mean is, I’ll try to make changes for the betterment of my field, but just as much I can see myself not putting up with non-ethical metrics for 30 years knowing I have the opportunity to walk away whenever I want..a blessed and cursed mindset I have right now..
     
  9. OP
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    sozetone

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    My wifes parents have a restaurant in Europe, They have had it 30 years and it does amazing. They are done though and offered it to us.....its currently being leased on a 6 month contingency type deal....(means either party can give 6 months and back out.) They want us to own and take over the operation. They want us OUT of corporate america..They understand how difficult it is to function and have positive quality of life over here. We are on board, but need to wrap up loose ends here in America. Gonna be a year or so and we will take off.
     
  10. OP
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    sozetone

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    upload_2018-11-8_21-38-40.png
     
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  11. Saisri_PharmStdnt

    Saisri_PharmStdnt Class of 2023
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    I mean this quite sincerely - Good luck to you guys! I hope it is as successful for you as it was for your in-laws!
     
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  12. Timbo

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    One thing you could do, working for a PBM, is end PBMs. They are worthless middlemen who’s only purpose is to funnel money out of pharmacies and patients for their own profit while providing no real tangible goods or services.
     
  13. TerryTerry

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    You always make it sound like all these current and future pharmacist issues do not apply to you.
    When you become a pharmacist I hope it stays that way for you. You sound like real hard working one of a kind lady. No sarcasm.
     
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  14. OP
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    sozetone

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    This thread is a trip, filled with fun snarky remarks....look guys at the end of the day, we are all in trouble if we are involved with pharmacy. good point. The prediction is 2023 will be the year when "big changes" will occur. LOL.... its not far off....and if we all go down like the titanic, I will remember the ones who did not think it could happen to them. The others, you are ALL welcome on my lifeboat,........... i just bought one from AMAZON.....lol
     
  15. Doktor_dud3

    Doktor_dud3 Pre-Med
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    I honestly thought I was a millennial, I think Generation Z sounds better than Postmillennial, though.
     
  16. Saisri_PharmStdnt

    Saisri_PharmStdnt Class of 2023
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    It is not that they don't apply to me per se, but I'm in a specialized area of the company. Because I currently work for the company and will throughout school, it would be an internal transfer position for me.
     
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  17. Saisri_PharmStdnt

    Saisri_PharmStdnt Class of 2023
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    That's because people in the generation before mine refer to anyone after GenX as a millennial and group all "young" people together. Time for GenZ to make their own name for themselves :)
     
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  18. GypsyHummus

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    Don’t blame yah. When the ship is sinking, you gotta figure out if it’s worth plugging up the holes or if it’s time to get on a lifeboat.
     
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  19. Timbo

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    120k is the current average salary but what makes you think it will stay that way 4 years from now? As you said, there is saturation and despite the pharmacist surplus, schools continue to graduate new PharmDs in record high numbers . Don't you think salary will drop drastically in the next following years because of this? I mean all recent reports of hours, raises, bonuses, and benefits being cut in the past year indicate a downward trend. Maybe I'm a pessimist, but I wouldn't be surprised if within the next decade, it ends up dropping to $50/hr and 32 hrs/wk. I hope you know something I don't know that proves me wrong
     
  20. VictorOfHungerGames

    VictorOfHungerGames May the odds be ever in your favor

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    What company and what area are you working in? It wouldn't matter where you are, this wave will affect pretty much everyone in the pharmacy field. Even in academia.
     
  21. DOOM N GLOOM

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    Being in call center operations is not considered a “specialized area” of the company but those pharmacists are generalists. The sheer fact that someone with no PBM experience can land one of those roles in your department is already an indication to me that it is unspecialized work that any PharmD can do, similar to a retail pharmacist position. Matter of fact I bet there are hundreds of pharmacists in your PBM doing call center/mail order stuff. If that’s your idea of “job security after graduation” then you’ll find out the hard truth quickly when your company passes you over in favor of bringing in retail pharmacists who are more desperate and would take a lower pay just to escape their jobs.
     
  22. Saisri_PharmStdnt

    Saisri_PharmStdnt Class of 2023
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    Doom n Gloom, you don't fail to disappoint, but I'm not going to post my resume here explaining why I am or am not qualified for something.

    To be clear, the PBM I work for is huge. Locations all over the country, mail order services, specialty pharmacies, retail pharmacies, etc...
    The department I am in is quite small and dedicated to a specific client in the company, where as yes, there are similar jobs in the company for all the other clients combined where there probably are hundreds. Excluding management rolls, we only have 14 pharmacists in my department, and maybe 50 pharmacists in the building.

    That said, I'm not banking on just my degree to have a job. I already have a job here, and they are allowing me to work part-time while in school. When I finish my degree and can return to work full-time, I'll be hitting 20 years with the company regardless of the roll I am in.
     
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  23. DOOM N GLOOM

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    I’m not discounting your pathway, especially if you’ve worked out a mechanism to stay continuously employed with your company, which I’m assuming is either Caremark or Centene until you secure a pharmacist job after graduation (Well as a disclaimer, transitioning as a tech to pharmacist in a PBM is a very different matter compared to transferring as a tech to a pharmacist in a retail setting). If that’s what you REALLY want, then who am I to judge you for that?

    But who knows? Since you’re interested in managed care you’re likely to get involved with your school of pharmacy’s industry or managed care organizations, in which case you will find that the grass is much greener in other parts of PBMs than the one you currently work in and would like to work in one of those departments— but they won’t hire you unless you’ve done a residency or fellowship.

    What then? You can’t unsee what you’ve seen at that point, and would most definitely need to uproot yourself if you ended up pursuing a residency/fellowship which means having to give up your role with the company.

    Obviously speculating here but that is my prediction on what you will be thinking through as you go through pharmacy school.
     
  24. Saisri_PharmStdnt

    Saisri_PharmStdnt Class of 2023
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    Sorry for the delay in responding. Family matters..

    I appreciate your candid views, truly. But at 43, I haven't chosen my path with rose-colored glasses on. The ones you should be worried about are the ones I talk out of pursing pharmacy daily - the ones who just see dollar signs. The ones who see a pathway to a degree with a lot of potential money to made, and no plan as to how to actually get to that point, attain a job, or keep one for that matter. The kids who, fresh out of high school or university, still don't know how to set up a 401K or why they should have one.. The ones who don't know how to budget, or manage a bank account, or a credit card (on their own). The ones who put all their effort into As, or 4.0s and no idea how to actually get a job, or keep one. The ones who come out with expectations as to how their life is going to go, but have no idea how to deal with disappointment or rejection. Those are the students you should watch out for.
     
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  25. BC_89

    Moderator Lifetime Donor Verified Expert Verified Account 2+ Year Member

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    In other words:

    1) What is your perception of the job market

    2) What is your perception of investments

    3) What is your perception of student loans

    4) What is your perception of “Annual Salary” vs “Take Home Salary” vs “Take-Home-Salary-After-Investments-Bills-Student Loans-Mortgage-Auto-Loans-Inflation-Cost-of-Living-Health-Insurance”
     
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  26. Saisri_PharmStdnt

    Saisri_PharmStdnt Class of 2023
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    And....

    5) What will you do if your perception doesn't match reality on the other side?
     
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  27. VictorOfHungerGames

    VictorOfHungerGames May the odds be ever in your favor

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    1) Job market sucks
    2) Buy CDs, land, house etc that have guaranteed returns
    3) Dealing with student loan would depend on how much you have. If you have ALOT 200k> then, just make the smallest payment and invest rest in other things i.e. what i mentioned on #2. Buying a house and letting it sit for 20-25 years will give you more return than what you would owe for your loan... probably. Meanwhile, you had a nice home for 20 years until you retire instead of having spent all your money on loans and no home.
    4) Annual salary = $125,000. Take home after taxes = $105,000. Yearly spending = $60,000 (apartment, cars, food, loans etc). Investing and saving the rest. Disposable income in Texas last year was $47,000.
    5) If perception doesn't match reality then you dun goofed.
     
  28. GypsyHummus

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    Why CDs?

    125k gross to 105k take home is impressive, would have thought it would have been more to the 85-90k mark.


     
  29. VictorOfHungerGames

    VictorOfHungerGames May the odds be ever in your favor

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    CD seems like a good idea for the money to just sit and build on interest if its a large sum.

    125k gross on pure salary would be about 95k but with bonuses i think I made about 105k.
     
  30. PharmD Jobs Are Hopeless

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    My perception is that pharmacy is currently a dead career path. All of you guys considering going into pharmacy I sincerely want to warn you of the job outlook. I completed a PGY2 pharmacy residency last year and then applied for every pharmacy position I could find in the lower 48 states for 12 months. Not one hospital or retail pharmacy has contacted me for an interview. I have a bachelor of science undergrad degree with a 3.7 GPA. My pharmacy school GPA was 4.0. I was a member of two Greek clubs while in pharmacy school. I had two years of paid pharmacy tech experience before pharmacy school, and three years of paid retail pharmacy student intern experience. I also have a PGY2 residency and that is is no insurance that you will get a job. It may have been many years ago, but that is not true any more. I have networked extensively and still no luck. I also know people that recently graduated class of 2018 and still have not managed to attain any kind of job in pharmacy.
     
  31. DruggieDoRight

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    I feel like I should bite since I'm a recent graduate I guess.

    1) What is your current perception of the job market?

    We're in a lot of trouble. I got really lucky in a major metro area, but it's not guaranteed full time. Half of my graduating class didn't have jobs lined up after school. Most job offers are going to be 48hr part time, and they will start you at $52 or less per hour.

    How much is this as a salary exactly? It's 65k per year. My first real person job after school (undergrad) I made 55k per year, and I didn't have 140k worth of student loans to pay off. Luckily, I was in a financial situation where I didn't have to take out as many loans as most of my peers (average student loans between my friends is about 200k - 300k).

    2) Perception of investments?

    401k is basically free money, and I have work on the side as well which I'd prefer to not discuss.

    3)Student loans

    Why do these loans have a worse interest rate than some of my investment loans? That doesn't make sense to me. I mentioned I'm sitting at 140k it's actually closer to 120k, but that's because I made sound financial decisions. Tuition increased by 33% while I was in school. Educational quality did not improve. Most students weren't in the financial position I'm in before school, and are stuck with 250k worth of debt. For reference on monthly payments that's approximately 2.4-2.5k monthly payments to our friends at Navient.

    4) I'd rather not say. For me it's not bad, for others I know it's pretty bad.

    5) The professors lie, the people in power in this profession let us all down. I'm looking at you ACPE and the boards of pharmacy. It's only a matter of time before this house of cards collapses. It will likely be a combination of those forces and PBMs like the one Saisri works for that does us in.
     
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  32. DOOM N GLOOM

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    What part of the country are you guys in?
     
  33. DruggieDoRight

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    I'd rather not say to maintain my anonymity.
     
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  34. Timbo

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    48 hours biweekly? 65k salary??? Holy **** it's already worse than I predicted it would be in a few years. When taking loan payments into account, you're essentially making less than US median income.
     
  35. PharmD Jobs Are Hopeless

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    South West
     
  36. Modest_anteater

    Modest_anteater Is today your last day on Earth?

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    If the economy collapsed tomorrow I would still have a place to live. That gives me piece of mind.
     
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  37. stoichiometrist

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    The overall lack of responses from pre-pharms is very telling.
     
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  38. Timbo

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    Are the pre pharmacy people even seeing this thread? The pharmacy school specific and PCAT threads are being bumped all the time so obviously they're here. Or do they really have no idea or expectations of how many hours they're going to get after graduating, how much debt they're going to be in and how much money they're going to make? Did they choose pharmacy just because mommy told them it was a good job?
     
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  39. solitarius

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    Some people to have experience pain before they learn anything.
     
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  40. Modest_anteater

    Modest_anteater Is today your last day on Earth?

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    I love your posts and I have subscribed to you
     
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