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What to do and not do during an interview

Discussion in 'Anesthesiology' started by dchz, May 7, 2018.

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  1. dchz

    dchz Avoiding the Dunning-Kruger
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    Inspired by this thread, and @Noyac .

    Kinda late for the recent interviewing season, but still good for references sake in the future.

    Also note the title, i've committed one of the faux pas... it's supposed to read "during an interview"
     
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  3. MirrorTodd

    MirrorTodd It's a gas.
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    Is this residency or job searching interviews.
     
  4. pgg

    pgg Laugh at me, will they?
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    Fixed your title. :)
     
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  5. Noyac

    Noyac ASA Member
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    To do: LISTEN

    Not to do: INTERRUPT.
     
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  6. wickedskillz

    wickedskillz ASA Member

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    Heres a question: address people by first name, or still call them "Dr so and so" like residency interviews?

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
     
  7. anbuitachi

    anbuitachi ASA Member

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    easiest interview ever? just sit there and listen? that's awesome
     
  8. Nivens

    Nivens Resident

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    Always “Dr X”.

    One mistake applicants make all the time at our program (usually in email) is referring to our male PD as “Dr Jones”, and our female APD as “Jane” in the same message. Huge mistake.
     
  9. chocomorsel

    chocomorsel Senior Member
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    Why does anyone ever think this is OK? Even the youngsters/med students are doing this?

    When I get recruiter emails doing this I call them out. You don’t know me like that. It’s not often I get it, but it happens.
     
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  10. Man o War

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    Yeah this would get a CV thrown in the trash by me. It shows a lack of respect for women, and we work with women in all areas of what we do. Not to mention it tells me you’re just a huge ahole.
    Don’t walk into an interview dressed like you’re going out with friends or to the beach. Shave or clean up your beard/scruff, get a fresh haircut, clean your shoes, iron your clothes. I want to see someone who pays attention to detail, and this stuff is an indicator of that IMO.
    Don’t come across as someone who wants to do as little work as possible. I gave a previous example of a very experienced guy who asked us if we would be ok with last minute call offs for personal issues. Other people are more subtle about it, but you can definitely tell they’re looking to do the bare minimum.
    I remember another guy who, when asked why he was leaving his job, he responded that he’s “always looking for something greener”, and this group is greener. Not sure I’ve ever seen my partners’ faces look the way they did when that came out. Don’t say stuff like this.
    Don’t trash talk ANYONE in your work related past. Not people from your program, previous employers, partners, etc. We all have those thoughts, but keep it to yourself. We are trying to figure out if you can get along with people in a professional setting even if you don’t care for them.
    Make eye contact. Connect. I still am sometimes surprised by how many people struggle with this. I want to see a confident, self assured candidate.
    I totally agree with not interrupting, sometimes people talk over others when they’re nervous and it’s a big turn off.
     
    #9 Man o War, May 9, 2018
    Last edited: May 9, 2018
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  11. Twiggidy

    Twiggidy ASA Member

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    Call everyone who is a physician "Doctor" until they tell you not to, and even, continue to do so. It shows them respect and shows the people around them (ie staff) they deserve respect. I know many of these small community practices love this "we're on a first name basis" stuff. Well no, not me, I'm "Doctor" because low and behold they'll start calling you by you first name in front of patients and then the patients lose respect for you. If you can't call me "Doctor" in a professional setting then don't talk to me.
     
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  12. beachbum353353

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    In formal correspondence I always use titles, but if you introduce yourself as Joe or Erin during the interview I will usually use that name in person.
     
  13. anbuitachi

    anbuitachi ASA Member

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    So we should introduce ourselves to the interviewer as Dr. Xyz?

    Is it that bad to request a last min call off for personal issues (eg parents got killed in a car crash) . A request is just a request and may not get filled. It can be distracting If you go to work knowing there's more important stuff to take care of.

    It reminds me of how everyone expect us to not go to work when sick bc we can infect patient and colleagues. We've probably all had those days when we went to bed feeling soso and woke up feeling like ****. Should we call in sick last minute? And as doctors we also know we usually don't recover completely in 1 day.
     
  14. SaltyDog

    SaltyDog Keeping the Forces of Entropy at Bay

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    Don’t watch the TV over my shoulder when we’re chatting in the surgeon’s lounge - yeah we had a guy do that.
     
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  15. SaltyDog

    SaltyDog Keeping the Forces of Entropy at Bay

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    No it’s not bad to make that request - we are all humans here, and we realize S happens. But, it’s bad to ask about it during the interview. It implies that it’s gonna be a regular thing with you. Are you planning on having your parents get killed in a car crash??
     
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  17. anbuitachi

    anbuitachi ASA Member

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    I see. Makes sense
     
  18. Twiggidy

    Twiggidy ASA Member

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    I smell insurance scam.
     
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  19. Perrotfish

    Perrotfish Has an MD in Horribleness
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    I think most people are planning on their kid getting sent home sick from school or daycare. Its a top concern for most single parents/dual income couples since it comes up at least once every couple of months. Most people are fine making up the days but you need the flexibility. If your group has never managed to work out any kind of back up/call out system then that's something I would want to know in advance.
     
  20. Perrotfish

    Perrotfish Has an MD in Horribleness
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    I knew a (career military) pulmonologist who flat out refused to use first names under any circumstances, even when he working with civilian staff or moonlighting at Kaiser. The Nurse was RN Lastname. The MA was MA lastname. It always seemed like a good habit to me. It sounds weird the first time you hear it but I never saw it offend anyone.
     
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  21. Twiggidy

    Twiggidy ASA Member

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    I think the moral is to be careful what you ask in an interview because it can be perceived as negative.

    All of this reminds me of how when I was in med school I heard of a certain residency in a certain field (not anesthesiology) that tended to only rank married men and single men or women. Sounds screwed up but devil's advocate would answer, "they still had a residency to run". (This was one of those programs that would have like 2 residents a year)
     
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  22. Man o War

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    Feel free to ask whatever you want. Just know how it is likely to be perceived. If you’re ok with that, that’s fine.
    Just keep in mind we aren’t neurosurgeons here- most groups have options as far as candidates go.
    We are doctors, not nurses. People expect us to be at work. In my group, if you don’t show up, we have to most likely at minimum tell a surgeon his schedule is now changed and at maximum shut down a room. Our post call guy is usually cleaning up some stuff from the night before or doing a shorter case.....or has been working all night; so that’s not ever something that can be counted on. The surgeons don’t care about our personal circumstances, and neither does the hospital who is trying to keep ORs running. If my group can’t do that, they will find one that will....maybe others on this board have groups that run differently. For us, it's a matter of keeping our contract and fulfilling our contractual obligations to cover rooms.
    It is rare that someone in our group has something occur that results in a call in. The most recent was a partner who was hospitalized. The surgeon was understanding because of the guy literally being in the hospital and the fact that it hardly ever happens. A sick kid would not go over well. We have all had sick kids, you have to have a plan for that.[/QUOTE]
     
    #20 Man o War, May 9, 2018
    Last edited: May 9, 2018
  23. Perrotfish

    Perrotfish Has an MD in Horribleness
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    [/QUOTE]
    A lot of shiftwork groups run with a backup call system. One person whos not on stays in the area and sober and if there's a callout he takes the shift. There's no schedule change because you've set it up so someone else can step in. Like you said, we've all had sick kids. I feel like that's a lot easier to adapt to this as a group (half a dozen backup call days per month) than to have everyone adapt individually (all the parents get nannies, doctors bring the flu/gastro with them to work, there are still occasional callouts and then you have to cancel procedures, etc).

    Obviously surgeons who routinely schedule themselves to work 80 hours a week are a different story, but most ER/Anesthesia/Hospitalist groups could set up a backup call system if they want one. If your group doesn't have a system in place that might be something you want to volunteer to applicants without being asked.
     
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  24. Man o War

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    A lot of shiftwork groups run with a backup call system. One person whos not on stays in the area and sober and if there's a callout he takes the shift. There's no schedule change because you've set it up so someone else can step in. Like you said, we've all had sick kids. I feel like that's a lot easier to adapt to this as a group (half a dozen backup call days per month) than to have everyone adapt individually (all the parents get nannies, doctors bring the flu/gastro with them to work, there are still occasional callouts and then you have to cancel procedures, etc).

    Obviously surgeons who routinely schedule themselves to work 80 hours a week are a different story, but most ER/Anesthesia/Hospitalist groups could set up a backup call system if they want one. If your group doesn't have a system in place that might be something you want to volunteer to applicants without being asked.[/QUOTE]

    We are a private group, so such a system, while it would be really nice, would cost us a lot of money. We are doc only, so we run lean and don’t reliably have extra bodies. Nobody wants to take a pay cut and we definitely aren’t going to request a bigger subsidy.
    I am assuming this hasn’t been a huge concern from most applicants we have had, since they didn’t ask about it.
     
  25. Urzuz

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    No. IMO there is no upside to this. If you were interviewing with my group and introduced yourself as Dr. anbuitachi I would think you're a pretentious dbag.
     
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  26. Twiggidy

    Twiggidy ASA Member

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    Boom.

    If you want shift work then go work for one of those groups, but then don’t come here complaining about making 250k and CRNAs taking jobs. The things that are keeping many groups doing well is that we a reliable for the service we provide therefore we need reliable people working with us. Extra bodies take money out of my pocket because those bodies need to be paid, unless you want to be on-call for free?
     
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  27. Twiggidy

    Twiggidy ASA Member

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    Ideally, the interviewer would already have your CV in front of them so all it really takes is just a cordial introduction, but interviewee should still first refer to interviewer as “Dr”. 9/10 the interviewer will open with “Hello Dr -blank-“
     
  28. SaltyDog

    SaltyDog Keeping the Forces of Entropy at Bay

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    The call schedule/system should be talked about anyways. Of course, there are better ways to ask about things that won’t make you look suspect as well. With most groups, it’s about the right fit. If your mentality doesn’t fit with the group culture, then it’s probably better for both parties you don’t end up there anyways.
     
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  29. Perrotfish

    Perrotfish Has an MD in Horribleness
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    That is how backup call works, yes. You generally don't get paid unless you get called in for a shift. The benefit to you is that you can call out of work when you/your kid is sick. Actual call ins with a backup call system are pretty rare, so your responsibility is mostly to do sober things within an hour of the hospital on your day off.

    There's usually, though not always, some kind of financial incentive to keep people from abusing it. You can make people spend vacation days, make up two shifts for each call out, pay the back 1.5x the cost of the shift. Whatever works
    Backup call is, again, another way to get to reliability. You need someone showing up for the shift. That can mean expecting people to take backup call or expecting people to work with gastro. They're different kinds of suck for the same result. I'd personally prefer backup call.
     
  30. Twiggidy

    Twiggidy ASA Member

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    Don’t take any job that doesn’t pay you to be on call, even if it’s back up. You’re getting hosed
     
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  31. Perrotfish

    Perrotfish Has an MD in Horribleness
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    They can't pay you money to be on call unless you make money on call. A backup call system means no more money coming in so there can't be any more money going out. If they paid for backup call it would just be moving numbers around so that you got paid less for actual work days.

    Just to be clear there's nothing wrong with being in a backup call free group. You're obviously happy with that. and there are more than enough of them. I'm just arguing that 'what do you do about call outs?' is a reasonable question for an interview., and should really be brought up by the organization. I don't mind being sober and in my house of some of my days off. I seriously question my life decisions when I'm wheezing/puking at work and don't get to go home. To me a group that expects you to show up with gastro, or that expects you to leave your vomiting child in the care of a back up babysitter, seems kinda toxic. To each their own.
     
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  32. Noyac

    Noyac ASA Member
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    No, it’s not bad to ask for a last minute reprieve for personal issues. It is bad to ask if you can do it during the interview. There is a difference. If you and the group agree to pursue a partnership and you tw9 are farther along in the process, you may ask what the group’s policy is regarding urgent/emergent last minute needs. Never in the initial interview process (unless they take it there).
     
  33. Man o War

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    I get what you’re saying, it sucks to work sick, hurt, or post call. Nobody *wants* to do that. But I also don’t want to be an employee and I don’t want to make $250k. Like you said, different strokes for different folks.
     
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  34. anbuitachi

    anbuitachi ASA Member

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    Do most people meet with interviewee and that's it before they decide if they want the job or not after the offer? Is it common to go around the ORs for a day or something on your own to check out the actual work flow? We all know how BS interviews can be and how many people fake it. I'm sure it's just as easy for the interviewer to make the job sound glorious . So if you are serious about possibly taking the offer how common is it to chill there for a day? Like if you have ****ty techs or barely any techs, your weekday will be way more annoying..
     
  35. Man o War

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    Ours spend a day in the ORs if we get to that point. We do a phone screen first on everyone before we invite them to the ORs. They spend the day with 1-3 partners in the OR depending on cases and then we have a big dinner that night with partners.
     
  36. Noyac

    Noyac ASA Member
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    Another turnoff is when a candidates first questions are how much money and vacation. Wait till you decide if you like the group before going into all of this. There is plenty of time.
    I’ve said it here before, we pulled an offer from a candidate years ago because the candidate was too concerned about this stuff. Trust me, we get a lot of time off and make plenty of money. But this candidate was too fixated on this.
     
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  37. dhb

    dhb Member
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    What's up with all the "attention to details" bs? Details are for loosers, i'd rather have someone able to see the big picture than one stuck on insignificant details.
     
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  38. Noyac

    Noyac ASA Member
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    Same here
     
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  39. anbuitachi

    anbuitachi ASA Member

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    Interesting. One would think those stuff are some stuff you'd get out of the way quickly since they somewhat matter to everyone. Though if the job posts a salary range won't that act as a filter of sorts for applicants? If they know going in the job pays 200k for 60 hrs w q4 calls they may not even apply! Less work for everyone
     
  40. MirrorTodd

    MirrorTodd It's a gas.
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    As someone who went to a brand new medical school...the devil is in the details...one should attempt to root those out ahead of time. I've read a ****eload of stories on this site from a significant portion of the people who are posting on this thread about **** jobs out there that people got screwed over in because **** was hidden during the interview.
     
  41. Noyac

    Noyac ASA Member
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    My post may be a bit misleading. You will get this information early in the process just don’t make it your first concerns. You will more than likely have a good idea of money and vacation before your actual site visit. We don’t go into that in much detail until we know you are a good candidate. That’s just not something I want out in public. I don’t want candidates choosing to interview with me based on this information. I am very confident with what my offer is and I will convey this to a candidate.
     
  42. Noyac

    Noyac ASA Member
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    Also, what is more important than money and vacation is work environment, types of cases, location, administrative support, and work relationships. If any one of these is poor then it doesn’t matter how much we pay or time off we give.
     
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  43. SaltyDog

    SaltyDog Keeping the Forces of Entropy at Bay

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    Really in depth conversation about compensation is best left until after a job offer is made. That is the appropriate time. Not “Hey, I’m Bill. So what are you guys clearing per year??”
     
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  44. Man o War

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    Well, a good amount of our subsidy is metrics. check the box type stuff. If you aren’t good with details, you will cost us money.
     
  45. Twiggidy

    Twiggidy ASA Member

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    100%
     
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  46. dannyboy1

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    What type of metrics? Somehow in our practice everyone’s pain is less than 5 and nobody ever has PONV ;)
     
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  47. Man o War

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    Start times, turnovers, time to extubation, a whole gaggle of paperwork completion type stuff, remembering to put stickers on certain charts, just a whole bunch of details that you have to keep track of and complete/document on top of all the regular stuff. Varies by facility too, and we cover several, so you have to remember that as well.
     
    #45 Man o War, May 9, 2018
    Last edited: May 9, 2018
  48. Urzuz

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    Yes, refer to others as Dr. XYZ unless specifically told to call them otherwise, but refer to yourself by your first name without the "doctor" title.
     
  49. zero0

    zero0 everything i hug dies

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    Sooooo basically don't be a tool who lacks common sense.

    Got it.

    Seems easy enough but from meeting most of my peers I can understand why so many struggle with this.
     
  50. dchz

    dchz Avoiding the Dunning-Kruger
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    yall got trolled

    :troll:
     
  51. dchz

    dchz Avoiding the Dunning-Kruger
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    You can be a cool guy behind a keyboard all you want.

    But the fact is SDN selects for those who have been professional test takers or just didn't have anyone to show them the ropes. Reminders like these, while simple or no brainer to some, could be life changing for others.

    but if you want to sum up this thread in 1 post, i would say "be the best interviewee", just that simple man.
     
  52. pgg

    pgg Laugh at me, will they?
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    I asked this in the other thread but didn't see an answer. Do any of you ever have candidates come work as a locums for a week or so?

    Downside, credentialing, EMR training, and possibly no license in the state yet.

    Upside, what better interview could there be than observing someone work and talking to the surgeons and other staff?
     
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