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It was not buoyancy, *******. I was submerged under water for a length of time which caused me to blank out for an unknown period of time, then I felt being pushed up. I sank to the bottom. Sinkers don't float until they have more gas in their bodies which is produced by decay. I didn't decay and float back up.

It was more than "good fortune" because I was telling myself to go faster but my body slowed down and braked against MY WILL. That's not lucky, that's beyond how I wanted to control my body. I wanted to go faster. I freakin had rollerblades glued to my feet in the 3rd-4th grade. I LOVED hillls.

On one hand, "we can not know God's plan," yet on the other hand, you are presumptuous enough to know you are so important that the Almighty meddles in your comparatively petty matter of dying, to save you, but not millions of other more-deserving people?

You didn't die from falling in a pool because of buoyancy, not God.
You didn't die when rollerblading because of your survivalism instincts, courtesy of evolution.
 
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The studies are conflicting. Google is your friend......

There is no correlation. I know plenty of smart people and I know plenty of dummies and there is no correlation between belief and intelligence....

You need a controlled experiment, not mere observation, to state that there is no correlation.

lol. Karaoke abuse is common among the Japanese.
And not Koreans? Untrue. Ever seen the streets of Seoul? There are like 3 karaoke places on every block. Okay, maybe a slight exaggeration, but seriously, the three things you see the most on most streets in Seoul are 1. Restaurants, 2. Karaoke places and 3. Motels.

If you really wanna stereotype .... Starcraft is for Koreans. :laugh:
 
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On one hand, "we can not know God's plan," yet on the other hand, you are presumptuous enough to know you are so important that the Almighty meddles in your comparatively petty matter of dying, to save you, but not millions of other more-deserving people?

You didn't die from falling in a pool because of buoyancy, not God.
You didn't die when rollerblading because of your survivalism instincts, courtesy of evolution.

Totally agree....

Just because you wanna do something, doesn't mean you'll go through with it. You might try jumping off a high place into a cushion because you WANT to. You know it's completely safe, you think it's going to be super cool and super fun ...! But then you might stop yourself last minute because you're afraid - What if something goes wrong? Because of those instincts!

Besides, if you went through such traumatizing experiences, you probably don't have a very clearly memory of what happened and how you were feeling at that time besides the adrenaline rush and/or fear. Are you so sure that you didn't just invent or recreate those feelings and memories in you? Happens a lot in psych experiments - people remember things that didn't happen. Children especially are susceptible to being led to believe things that didn't EVER happen, which is why it is tricky business questioning a child in court. You might want to believe you are a miracle so much that you just thought yourself into believing it. You had a bunch of gray memories when you were a child after the event, and you just filled in the blanks with what you wanted to believe happen .... and as the years went by, you told yourself that is what happened that it is truly what you believe now. You can argue with me, and say it's not true, but how do you really know? I'm not saying that this IS what happened, but I am pointing out that it is a possibility.

By the way, I got into a car accident that flipped my car over. I survived without much damage - just some airbag dust in my eye and some glass in my arm from the broken car window. Do I attribute that to a miracle? No. I was just ****ing lucky.

You can think they were miracles, but they do not convince me at all. I don't think they are miracles at all. I also think it's presumptuous of you to think that god would save you over so many other people who die EVERY SECOND. Why do they die, some without even a chance - why do you get a second chance, or a third, or a fourth. Miracles? Yeah, right. It's because of sheer dumb luck and coincidence, along with some of the physics and biology of the world.
 
On one hand, "we can not know God's plan," yet on the other hand, you are presumptuous enough to know you are so important that the Almighty meddles in your comparatively petty matter of dying, to save you, but not millions of other more-deserving people?

You didn't die from falling in a pool because of buoyancy, not God.
You didn't die when rollerblading because of your survivalism instincts, courtesy of evolution.

Frankly, I don't know God's plan in my life, all I know is I'm supposed to be alive because I am alive and I am more aware of it (well, whenever I remember about near death experiences) and apparently you and everybody else are supposed to be alive too. I'm not trying to say I'm more important than anybody else, as I said before, I needed to be reminded that I could've died many times, but I didn't, because I, like everybody else who is alive, am still here. I think near death experiences are given to people who don't see the point in life, perhaps to be convinced otherwise that they are alive for some reason.

The time I jumped off the balcony, drowned, was hit by motorized vehicles, survived a gas leak, etc... I credit that stuff to luck and good fortune. I don't count these things as "miracles" even though I guess some people could argue otherwise, because when I drown and a life guard rescues me, that's like not really special. Why didn't the force of buoyancy rescue me when I was five? Frankly, you were not there when I almost died at age 8 and you cannot tell me that it was buoyancy. And survival instincts? I was a reckless ***** as a child who used to hop rooftops Aladdin style back in the mother country. You think jumping off a balcony is exemplary of survival instincts? I don't think so.
 
Totally agree....

Just because you wanna do something, doesn't mean you'll go through with it. You might try jumping off a high place into a cushion because you WANT to. You know it's completely safe, you think it's going to be super cool and super fun ...! But then you might stop yourself last minute because you're afraid - What if something goes wrong? Because of those instincts!

Besides, if you went through such traumatizing experiences, you probably don't have a very clearly memory of what happened and how you were feeling at that time besides the adrenaline rush and/or fear. Are you so sure that you didn't just invent or recreate those feelings and memories in you? Happens a lot in psych experiments - people remember things that didn't happen. Children especially are susceptible to being led to believe things that didn't EVER happen, which is why it is tricky business questioning a child in court. You might want to believe you are a miracle so much that you just thought yourself into believing it. You had a bunch of gray memories when you were a child after the event, and you just filled in the blanks with what you wanted to believe happen .... and as the years went by, you told yourself that is what happened that it is truly what you believe now. You can argue with me, and say it's not true, but how do you really know? I'm not saying that this IS what happened, but I am pointing out that it is a possibility.

By the way, I got into a car accident that flipped my car over. I survived without much damage - just some airbag dust in my eye and some glass in my arm from the broken car window. Do I attribute that to a miracle? No. I was just ****ing lucky.

You can think they were miracles, but they do not convince me at all. I don't think they are miracles at all. I also think it's presumptuous of you to think that god would save you over so many other people who die EVERY SECOND. Why do they die, some without even a chance - why do you get a second chance, or a third, or a fourth. Miracles? Yeah, right. It's because of sheer dumb luck and coincidence, along with some of the physics and biology of the world.

Actually, I did go through with the jump. And I survived without breaking a bone. I don't count that one as a miracle either. But the two stories I remember giving up on life and I remember wanting to go fast. I know what you mean by children being unreliable witnesses, but I had clear cognition since I was 3 and possibly even younger, but that's fuzzier. I drew a map of what I fuzzily remembered to be the room in which my crib was, like crib here, window there, door here, and my mother confirms it. I was an annoying parrot of a child who remembered everything. I tied my shoelaces at age 3. At age 6, if you taught me out to fold an intricate flower with origami, you wouldn't have to teach me it again. I see what you mean, that there is room for possible error in my stories, but I'm just saying, I wasn't your average kid.
 
Kirby, that is called the force of buoyancy.

Kirby, you know I :love: you, but I am going to have to agree with ffpickle on this one. :(
 
Kirby, you know I :love: you, but I am going to have to agree with ffpickle on this one. :(

If you were dating Jesus, would you make him pay for your meal? He wasn't really rich....
 
Frankly, I don't know God's plan in my life, all I know is I'm supposed to be alive because I am alive and I am more aware of it (well, whenever I remember about near death experiences) and apparently you and everybody else are supposed to be alive too. I'm not trying to say I'm more important than anybody else, as I said before, I needed to be reminded that I could've died many times, but I didn't, because I, like everybody else who is alive, am still here. I think near death experiences are given to people who don't see the point in life, perhaps to be convinced otherwise that they are alive for some reason.

The time I jumped off the balcony, drowned, was hit by motorized vehicles, survived a gas leak, etc... I credit that stuff to luck and good fortune. I don't count these things as "miracles" even though I guess some people could argue otherwise, because when I drown and a life guard rescues me, that's like not really special. Why didn't the force of buoyancy rescue me when I was five? Frankly, you were not there when I almost died at age 8 and you cannot tell me that it was buoyancy. And survival instincts? I was a reckless ***** as a child who used to hop rooftops Aladdin style back in the mother country. You think jumping off a balcony is exemplary of survival instincts? I don't think so.

Why can't you just believe in God without making up fantastical reasons for doing so?
 
Actually, I did go through with the jump. And I survived without breaking a bone. I don't count that one as a miracle either. But the two stories I remember giving up on life and I remember wanting to go fast. I know what you mean by children being unreliable witnesses, but I had clear cognition since I was 3 and possibly even younger, but that's fuzzier. I drew a map of what I fuzzily remembered to be the room in which my crib was, like crib here, window there, door here, and my mother confirms it. I was an annoying parrot of a child who remembered everything. I tied my shoelaces at age 3. At age 6, if you taught me out to fold an intricate flower with origami, you wouldn't have to teach me it again. I see what you mean, that there is room for possible error in my stories, but I'm just saying, I wasn't your average kid.

Haha, I'm sorry but this reminds me of my Latina friend who told me how much superstitious made-up **** foreigners come up with,...her words, not mine...it makes me laugh.
 
If you were dating Jesus, would you make him pay for your meal? He wasn't really rich....

I am as atheist as it gets and therefore there is NO such thing as god, jesus, santa claus, easter bunny (I didn't know rabbits lay eggs?), tooth fairy, ghosts, boogeyman, etc. etc. I am not six years old anymore so there is no need for anymore imaginery friends. :laugh:
 
I am as atheist as it gets and therefore there is NO such thing as god, jesus, santa claus, easter bunny (I didn't know rabbits lay eggs?), tooth fairy, ghosts, boogeyman, etc. etc. I am not six years old anymore so there is no need for anymore imaginery friends. :laugh:

You're joking right? Atheists recognize Jesus, as a man, existed in some capacity. Probably not the way religious people think of him, but he did exist. Perhaps not as the son of god, but he did exist.

Anyways, would you want him to pay for your meal?
 
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You're joking right? Atheists recognize Jesus, as a man, existed in some capacity. Probably not the way religious people think of him, but he did exist. Perhaps not as the son of god, but he did exist.

Anyways, would you want him to pay for your meal?

Sure, there are a lot of crazy religious people out there that will go around and bug people (harrass them) until they listen to what they have to say. I use to live in New York City and I see those nutcases all the time either begging for money or preaching about god. I believe jesus is no one special just some nut that lacks attention and is desperate for attention so he just went out and harrass others until they believe in his imaginery friend name god. :laugh: I see people like that all the time, however now they are more likely to just stand in front of public places with microphones shouting about god. It think its funny in a very annoying way.

And NO I would not want someone like jesus to pay for my meal. I would rather sit at home and eat my 50 cent instant noodles than to hear some man talk about his imaginery friend god for two hours. :laugh: It would be just as bad as going to church so no thanks!
 
Sure, there are a lot of crazy religious people out there that will go around and bug people (harrass them) until they listen to what they have to say. I use to live in New York City and I see those nutcases all the time either begging for money or preaching about god. I believe jesus is no one special just some nut that lacks attention and is desperate for attention so he just went out and harrass others until they believe in his imaginery friend name god. :laugh: I see people like that all the time, however now they are more likely to just stand in front of public places with microphones shouting about god. It think its funny in a very annoying way.

And NO I would not want someone like jesus to pay for my meal. I would rather sit at home and eat my 50 cent instant noodles than to hear some man talk about his imaginery friend god for two hours. :laugh: It would be just as bad as going to church so no thanks!

You don't want to accept. Other people are trying to argue against your point. The retaliation isn't going to end. Why is this conversation still going?
 
Frankly, I don't know God's plan in my life, all I know is I'm supposed to be alive because I am alive and I am more aware of it (well, whenever I remember about near death experiences) and apparently you and everybody else are supposed to be alive too. I'm not trying to say I'm more important than anybody else, as I said before, I needed to be reminded that I could've died many times, but I didn't, because I, like everybody else who is alive, am still here. I think near death experiences are given to people who don't see the point in life, perhaps to be convinced otherwise that they are alive for some reason.

The time I jumped off the balcony, drowned, was hit by motorized vehicles, survived a gas leak, etc... I credit that stuff to luck and good fortune. I don't count these things as "miracles" even though I guess some people could argue otherwise, because when I drown and a life guard rescues me, that's like not really special. Why didn't the force of buoyancy rescue me when I was five? Frankly, you were not there when I almost died at age 8 and you cannot tell me that it was buoyancy. And survival instincts? I was a reckless ***** as a child who used to hop rooftops Aladdin style back in the mother country. You think jumping off a balcony is exemplary of survival instincts? I don't think so.

You are here because your parents' gametes came together at one specific time. Any other time during that month, half your genes would be the same, but who knows about the other half. It's a random, perfectly biological process. If God really gives humans free will, he/she has no control over which of us come to existence, as it's the humans that decide whether to have intercourse or use technology to reproduce.

And about all those 'miracles'? You were lucky.
 
Too many people think that because they read something in a science book, they become authorities on the origins of life. Sorry, but I think we should end this whole conversation on spirituality because it is going nowhere.
 
This is a **** match. Someone sh*ts on your idea and then your **** on theirs. Then you repeat the cycle.
 
Too many people think that because they read something in a science book, they become authorities on the origins of life. Sorry, but I think we should end this whole conversation on spirituality because it is going nowhere.

If you don't like it, you are welcome to not participate in it.

And I've done a bit more than read a science book on the origins of life, thank you very much.
 
Txpharm is right though. This is all mental masturbation. I'm here because I'm an argument enthusiast.

I agree that we aren't going to change anyone's mind. It's fun to argue; that's the same reason I'm here, too. But why complain, when no one is forcing you to read this post?

It's like the people that go on to the TV show posts and spend hours, if not days, arguing how horrible the show is. If it's so bad, why do you spend all that time watching/complaining about it???

Speaking of arguing, do you ever go on Fark, WVUPharm?
 
This is a **** match. Someone sh*ts on your idea and then your **** on theirs. Then you repeat the cycle.
:laugh: Well, this is a forum and you express your ideas, read other peoples' ideas and you get to see what people think about your ideas and vice versa.

Sorry for sh*tting on your post. :)
 
Why can't you just believe in God without making up fantastical reasons for doing so?
I think I always believed in God since I was..... 5? I used to pray to him when I had to go to the bathroom at night to protect me. lol.

The "miracles" have nothing to do with what made me believe in God, they're just the reasons why I haven't killed myself. I mentioned it because SHC wanted me to give her an example of how God raised the dead, and I couldn't think of one outside of the Bible. And we were talking about miracles so I named some of mine.

Oh also, I just remembered today, one time when I was 8 or 9, I tumbled down a whole flight of stairs 360-ing all the way down and no bruises. I scared the sh.t out of my mom lol.
 
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Haha, I'm sorry but this reminds me of my Latina friend who told me how much superstitious made-up **** foreigners come up with,...her words, not mine...it makes me laugh.
I was born in the states. Are you calling me a foreigner?
 
:laugh: Well, this is a forum and you express your ideas, read other peoples' ideas and you get to see what people think about your ideas and vice versa.

Sorry for sh*tting on your post. :)

Quite sardonic aren't we?
 
You are here because your parents' gametes came together at one specific time. Any other time during that month, half your genes would be the same, but who knows about the other half. It's a random, perfectly biological process. If God really gives humans free will, he/she has no control over which of us come to existence, as it's the humans that decide whether to have intercourse or use technology to reproduce.

And about all those 'miracles'? You were lucky.

I'm quite aware of how sexual reproduction works. Thanks for the gratuitous lesson. I'm so sorry I believe in a God who is in control of everything. :rolleyes: Whatever happens happens, call it fate, call it random, I call it God. You can't see the point of view from "if God exists"? If God exists, everything that has happened, and everything that will happen is under his control, we are free to make choices, but our choices are known to him, and the outcome of our choices are still under his sovereignty.

If I were lucky, I wouldn't have experienced any of those things and I would look forward to life regardlessly.
 
Quite sardonic aren't we?
I know my expressions are limited by words and emoticons, but I'm actually trying to be facetious, not sardonic. :)<--this face is for facetious.
 
You are here because your parents' gametes came together at one specific time. Any other time during that month, half your genes would be the same, but who knows about the other half. It's a random, perfectly biological process. If God really gives humans free will, he/she has no control over which of us come to existence, as it's the humans that decide whether to have intercourse or use technology to reproduce.

And about all those 'miracles'? You were lucky.

Gregor Mendel was a monk. He's the father of genetics...So what is this you are saying about gametes?

I guess I'll jump back into this sh*tfest since I'm being taunted repeatedly.
 
I know my expressions are limited by words and emoticons, but I'm actually trying to be facetious, not sardonic. :)<--this face is for facetious.
I see the pun.
 
Haha, I'm sorry but this reminds me of my Latina friend who told me how much superstitious made-up **** foreigners come up with,...her words, not mine...it makes me laugh.

Oh, I get why you don't believe me. I didn't explain what building I jumped off of and what exactly was in the backyard. You didn't think I jumped off and landed on concrete without breaking a bone did you? I thought you were a scientist. ;)
 
I'm quite aware of how sexual reproduction works. Thanks for the gratuitous lesson. I'm so sorry I believe in a God who is in control of everything. :rolleyes: Whatever happens happens, call it fate, call it random, I call it God. You can't see the point of view from "if God exists"? If God exists, everything that has happened, and everything that will happen is under his control, we are free to make choices, but our choices are known to him, and the outcome of our choices are still under his sovereignty.

If I were lucky, I wouldn't have experienced any of those things and I would look forward to life regardlessly.

I'm hoping you know how sexual reproduction works! I was just pointing it out to make a point.

What I don't understand about several/most Christianity religions is the idea that God loves us all, but gives us free will, but expects us to believe in him, and will send us to hell if we don't. It just seems sort of... odd? If we're free to make our choices, yet he knows these choices, then why give us the opportunity to make those choices? Couldn't he change the outcome of random things to change our mind to what he wants?

Besides, if God really exists, then there's a lot of screwed up things that people do to each other that he obviously doesn't care enough about to prevent. Rape, murder, etc. I can't see how there's a loving God that allows that stuff. If he's so powerful, he/she could prevent that. And I don't agree with the sometimes Christian argument that the horrible things happen to cause a certain outcome. I mean, an all-powerful god that is going to allow some kid to get raped/murdered, so their friend becomes a believer? What makes the friend the one that's so special that he/she lives?
 
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Gregor Mendel was a monk. He's the father of genetics...So what is this you are saying about gametes?

I guess I'll jump back into this sh*tfest since I'm being taunted repeatedly.

What does the fact that Mendel was a monk have anything to do with... anything? During the time that Mendel lived, most education/learning went through the church. I'm sure not every monk/priest/nun went into the church because they were devoutly religious. Some went for the learning, some were practically forced by their families, and for some, that was the only avenue open.

If I remember my Mendel correctly, he seemed to find a certain amount of... dare I say randomness to reproduction?

I'm not saying you can't have faith that God creates a certain zygote, but there's no proof of that. I understand the randomness of reproduction after many years of study in the biological sciences, and there's no scientific evidence that there's any control over which zygote is produced.

Unless you're about to tell me you run a scientific lab that just discovered fairies that direct the best sperm to the egg?
 
I'm hoping you know how sexual reproduction works! I was just pointing it out to make a point.

What I don't understand about several/most Christianity religions is the idea that God loves us all, but gives us free will, but expects us to believe in him, and will send us to hell if we don't. It just seems sort of... odd? If we're free to make our choices, yet he knows these choices, then why give us the opportunity to make those choices? Couldn't he change the outcome of random things to change our mind to what he wants?

Besides, if God really exists, then there's a lot of screwed up things that people do to each other that he obviously doesn't care enough about to prevent. Rape, murder, etc. I can't see how there's a loving God that allows that stuff. If he's so powerful, he/she could prevent that. And I don't agree with the sometimes Christian argument that the horrible things happen to cause a certain outcome. I mean, an all-powerful god that is going to allow some kid to get raped/murdered, so their friend becomes a believer? What makes the friend the one that's so special that he/she lives?

YAY!!! For the first time in this thread I agree with everything you just say! :D

If there is a God why is he sooooooooooooooo damn unfair? If he loves me so much why don't he just like me win the lottery all ready??? Why don't he let me be famous??? why torture me????? If he LOVES us all then why is he soooo f*cking mean and unfair? Why does he allow wars to happen? in fact 100% of wars happen b/c of God, if he loves people so much why does he kill millions of people everyday? And that **** about people believing in him or going to hell is the sh*ttiest thing I have ever heard of!!! So God thinks it is "right" to send someone to hell that is a perfect citzen, NEVER steal, NEVER cheat, NEVER kill...just because he doesn't have a "relationship" with god? WTF!!!

What I think is realllllly fu*k up is when religious nuts tell me that is its okay to kill, rap, cheat, steal, ALL that is GREAT and FINE, as long as you believe in God YOU WILL GO TO HEAVEN. So it is GREAT that I am a murder, as long as I believe in God I will go to Heaven. Thats what religious people "believe". What the fu*K? How can these religious nutcases believe that and think non religious (LOGICAL) people are have no morals??? :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Once again MIRACLES defy nature. ALL the miracles that religious people tell me are things that happen b/c they are LUCKY!!!! The day god brings back the dead, turns the sky green and the sun purple, let me win the 113 MILLION dollar lottery, Let me go to the future and view my life when I am 50, and let me learn how to fly like a eagle, etc. The day this GOD let me have these TRUE miracles is the DAY that there is a god. Religious people think every little thing is a miracle but I am sorry those things are either called luck or consequences NOT miracles.
 
I'm hoping you know how sexual reproduction works! I was just pointing it out to make a point.
Oh, I reread what you said, and I can see you were just making a point. When I first read it all I could see was a biology lesson lol.

What I don't understand about several/most Christianity religions is the idea that God loves us all, but gives us free will, but expects us to believe in him, and will send us to hell if we don't. It just seems sort of... odd? If we're free to make our choices, yet he knows these choices, then why give us the opportunity to make those choices? Couldn't he change the outcome of random things to change our mind to what he wants?
That's exactly why I struggle with my faith. I'm not a good Christian, if you haven't noticed :p hehe. But one thing that keeps me believing is that it's not over yet. I've only been around 24 years, stumbling through life, eating, sleeping, finding pleasure in things, and trying to prepare for whatever years I may or may not have left in life. If God exists, his sovereignty over all that happens will be just, and how can I judge what is right to God if I'm probably nowhere near his intelligence? Today, I randomly bumped into an old Catholic friend and I asked him what Catholics thought about ectopic pregnancy abortions and the conversation led to him explaining in something they call "ignorance" which is kind of a free-pass where God's mercy covers a sinner if they were ignorant (like babies, or people who did things according to their conscience.) I'm not Catholic, but I guess what he said is in line with how I feel about God. I believe that whether you were called to believe in God or not, as long as you act accordingly to your conscience, God will have mercy on you. I do believe that Christians will inherit the "kingdom of God," whatever that may be, and the rest will inherit whatever God will give, I can't say I know what anyone will truly receive.

Besides, if God really exists, then there's a lot of screwed up things that people do to each other that he obviously doesn't care enough about to prevent. Rape, murder, etc. I can't see how there's a loving God that allows that stuff. If he's so powerful, he/she could prevent that. And I don't agree with the sometimes Christian argument that the horrible things happen to cause a certain outcome. I mean, an all-powerful god that is going to allow some kid to get raped/murdered, so their friend becomes a believer? What makes the friend the one that's so special that he/she lives?
I agree with you so much. I think God does consider all people to be his "children"... or maybe even "pets" haha, and he loves us. Some pets are good, some are not so good. Some pets love other pets, some fight each other. I have been raped before and I hated God for it. Bad things happen as a consequence of the mistakes/wrong doings that humans do to each other. Hitler did a lot of wrong doings, but God was still sovereign over it. I think this is a sh.tty life we all live because we live with our sh.tty selves and our sh.tty others, but all things pass. I believe we were meant to live in harmony, but with free will, we make sh.tty decisions. But on the flip side, we all have the capacity to learn and be good, and even love, and even know God and know about how much he loves us. If we couldn't make bad decisions, I wonder if we would know what good is. I think it's easy to remember all the sh.t we go through in life, and it's easy to forget the good stuff. The Christian belief in God also comes packaged with the belief in afterlife. It's not about what you get here in life, because it all ends. What's the point of winning the lottery and dying shortly after? In fact, what's the point of living a life of constant luxury and dying? Our lives are truly meaningless if we die and the people we've touched all die too in the end. I believe that our souls are eternal, and what we do daily affects us continuously.
 
Once again MIRACLES defy nature. ALL the miracles that religious people tell me are things that happen b/c they are LUCKY!!!! The day god brings back the dead, turns the sky green and the sun purple, let me win the 113 MILLION dollar lottery, Let me go to the future and view my life when I am 50, and let me learn how to fly like a eagle, etc. The day this GOD let me have these TRUE miracles is the DAY that there is a god. Religious people think every little thing is a miracle but I am sorry those things are either called luck or consequences NOT miracles.

The reason why I jumped off the balcony when I was 4 was because I wanted to fly like a bird :laugh:
 
[FONT=Courier New, Courier, mono]"DEAR EDITOR: I am 8 years old.
"Some of my little friends say there is no Santa Claus.
"Papa says, 'If you see it in THE SUN it's so.'
"Please tell me the truth; is there a Santa Claus?

"VIRGINIA O'HANLON.
"115 WEST NINETY-FIFTH STREET."

VIRGINIA, your little friends are wrong. They have been affected by the skepticism of a skeptical age. They do not believe except [what] they see. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by their little minds. All minds, Virginia, whether they be men's or children's, are little. In this great universe of ours man is a mere insect, an ant, in his intellect, as compared with the boundless world about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the whole of truth and knowledge.

Yes, VIRGINIA, there is a Santa Claus. He exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! how dreary would be the world if there were no Santa Claus. It would be as dreary as if there were no VIRGINIAS. There would be no childlike faith then, no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence. We should have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The eternal light with which childhood fills the world would be extinguished.

Not believe in Santa Claus! You might as well not believe in fairies! You might get your papa to hire men to watch in all the chimneys on Christmas Eve to catch Santa Claus, but even if they did not see Santa Claus coming down, what would that prove? Nobody sees Santa Claus, but that is no sign that there is no Santa Claus. The most real things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see. Did you ever see fairies dancing on the lawn? Of course not, but that's no proof that they are not there. Nobody can conceive or imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in the world.

.[FONT=Courier New, Courier, mono]You may tear apart the baby's rattle and see what makes the noise inside, but there is a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest man, nor even the united strength of all the strongest men that ever lived, could tear apart. Only faith, fancy, poetry, love, romance, can push aside that curtain and view and picture the supernal beauty and glory beyond. Is it all real? Ah, VIRGINIA, in all this world there is nothing else real and abiding.

No Santa Claus! Thank God! he lives, and he lives forever. A thousand years from now, Virginia, nay, ten times ten thousand years from now, he will continue to make glad the heart of childhood.
.
 
[FONT=Courier New, Courier, mono]"DEAR EDITOR: I am 8 years old. .
[FONT=Courier New, Courier, mono]"Some of my little friends say there is no Santa Claus. .
[FONT=Courier New, Courier, mono]"Papa says, 'If you see it in THE SUN it's so.' .
[FONT=Courier New, Courier, mono]"Please tell me the truth; is there a Santa Claus?.

[FONT=Courier New, Courier, mono]"VIRGINIA O'HANLON..
[FONT=Courier New, Courier, mono]"115 WEST NINETY-FIFTH STREET.".

[FONT=Courier New, Courier, mono]VIRGINIA, your little friends are wrong. They have been affected by the skepticism of a skeptical age. They do not believe except [what] they see. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by their little minds. All minds, Virginia, whether they be men's or children's, are little. In this great universe of ours man is a mere insect, an ant, in his intellect, as compared with the boundless world about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the whole of truth and knowledge..

[FONT=Courier New, Courier, mono]Yes, VIRGINIA, there is a Santa Claus. He exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! how dreary would be the world if there were no Santa Claus. It would be as dreary as if there were no VIRGINIAS. There would be no childlike faith then, no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence. We should have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The eternal light with which childhood fills the world would be extinguished..

[FONT=Courier New, Courier, mono]Not believe in Santa Claus! You might as well not believe in fairies! You might get your papa to hire men to watch in all the chimneys on Christmas Eve to catch Santa Claus, but even if they did not see Santa Claus coming down, what would that prove? Nobody sees Santa Claus, but that is no sign that there is no Santa Claus. The most real things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see. Did you ever see fairies dancing on the lawn? Of course not, but that's no proof that they are not there. Nobody can conceive or imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in the world..

[FONT=Courier New, Courier, mono]You may tear apart the baby's rattle and see what makes the noise inside, but there is a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest man, nor even the united strength of all the strongest men that ever lived, could tear apart. Only faith, fancy, poetry, love, romance, can push aside that curtain and view and picture the supernal beauty and glory beyond. Is it all real? Ah, VIRGINIA, in all this world there is nothing else real and abiding. .

[FONT=Courier New, Courier, mono]No Santa Claus! Thank God! he lives, and he lives forever. A thousand years from now, Virginia, nay, ten times ten thousand years from now, he will continue to make glad the heart of childhood..

Where did you dig this up from? I thought you were Atheist? Do you really believe in Santa Claus?? If he does really exist I am still waiting on all the presents that he OWES me! :mad:
 
Where did you dig this up from? I thought you were Atheist? Do you really believe in Santa Claus?? If he does really exist I am still waiting on all the presents that he OWES me! :mad:
I was. I'm slowly becoming a theist. Maybe you have been naughty, not nice.

P.S. It is a letter to the editor of The Sun, and the editor's response. It is really famous.
 
I was. I'm slowly becoming a theist. Maybe you have been naughty, not nice.

P.S. It is a letter to the editor of The Sun, and the editor's response. It is really famous.
What made you change your mind? I'd really like to know.
 
Right now I feel like taking some...
fukitol.jpg
:thumbup:
:thumbup:
 
this thread is getting tedious. except that guy with the beard was awesome. i want to meet people with that accent
 
this thread is getting tedious. except that guy with the beard was awesome. i want to meet people with that accent

This thread was epic. Just when you think it has died off, it makes a comeback.
 
This thread was epic. Just when you think it has died off, it makes a comeback.

This thread should be merged with the OFF topic thread, so it will stay alive FOREVER. :D
 
What made you change your mind? I'd really like to know.

I typed out a really lengthy response a while ago but then I lost it. The gist of it is that I am not trying to persuade someone to "believe." I just found that there are limitations to the reasoning capacity/potential of humans. That is, I don't need the existence of a god to be justified using logical arguments. Metaphysical arguments are fine with me. You can also make a sociobiological argument, i.e. there are reasons why a supernatural being has existed in human minds throughout our evolution. I dunno, I have other reasons to but mine are personal ones and I don't think they can be used as universal arguments to persuade others.
 
This thread should be merged with the OFF topic thread, so it will stay alive FOREVER. :D

At this rate, it will stay alive forever. The OT thread has been a little quiet lately. This one, however, is still hopping. I give it one to two weeks before this thread is the longer of the two.

I agree, though, this is quite the entertaining little thread. We went from talking about pregnancy, to abortion, to dating and the notion of equality vs. chivalry, to religion, to basketball ****-talking, back to religion, to the Hilljack accent, back to religion, and there was a smattering of other ideas thrown in here and there.
 
At this rate, it will stay alive forever. The OT thread has been a little quiet lately. This one, however, is still hopping. I give it one to two weeks before this thread is the longer of the two.

I agree, though, this is quite the entertaining little thread. We went from talking about pregnancy, to abortion, to dating and the notion of equality vs. chivalry, to religion, to basketball ****-talking, back to religion, to the Hilljack accent, back to religion, and there was a smattering of other ideas thrown in here and there.

I think the ONLY topic missing from this thread is Affirmative Action! :laugh:

I think its sucks. Anyone else? (yes, I know I am going to get flamed but I don't give a **** b/c Affirmative Actions SUCKS!)
 
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