What's "down" or "less competitive" this year???

[southerndoc]

Funny enough, CT also has gun laws a lot more lenient than the other new-england states and NY.

More lenient than other New England states? I would hate to see how strict their laws are. It took me forever (almost 6 months!) to get a handgun permit.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[southerndoc]

Maybe programs should implement secondary applications, not really for more info but just to make it slightly more difficult to apply to tons of programs. Then people might limit their applications to programs they really want and PDs wouldn't have all of these extra applications.

Bad idea. That's just more reading material for the selection committees.

 

[f_w]

More lenient than other New England states? I would hate to see how strict their laws are. It took me forever (almost 6 months!) to get a handgun permit.

Good luck getting a permit in RI, MA or NY.

 

[southerndoc]

I'll just go the cop route next time.

 

[f_w]

I'll just go the cop route next time.

What is that ? Getting sworn in as a peace officer to get a carry permit ?

 

[southerndoc]

What is that ? Getting sworn in as a peace officer to get a carry permit ?

Tactical medicine, baby!

 

[f_w]

You lost me.

 

[southerndoc]

You lost me.

Tac medics and tac physicians are usually cops.

 

[f_w]

Ok, but that would be a long climb if it was just to avoid the paperwork hassle. (does 'I drive to work in New Haven qualify as a 'reasonable fear of a specific crime' in RI ?)

 

[EctopicFetus]

Guns dont kill people.. people kill people..

 

[robotsonic]

Guns dont kill people.. people kill people..

I think it's actually: Guns don't kill people; people with guns kill people.

 

[Poety]

I think it's actually: Guns don't kill people; people with guns kill people.

so do people with sharp knives...

 

[f_w]

so do people with sharp knives...

Ever heard of a 'drive by stabbing' or a '12 year old girl got stabbed in the face by a richocheting knife from a drug related turf conflict while sitting on grandmas porch' ?

Stupid people with a short fuse and a gun in their hand kill people. You won't be able to fix the stupid and the short fuse part, you could do something about the gun.

 

[Poety]

I was just making a joke , but actually, the whole girl stabbed in the face with a ricocheting knife - I did see that before!

I guess I didn't know - is this an anti gun debate?

 

[f_w]

I guess I didn't know - is this an anti gun debate?

You can turn any thread on SDN into a discussion of some libertarian pet-peeve. (It takes less than 5 posts to do so, it is the 3rd corollary to Godwins Law of the usenet)

 

[3dtp]

LoL, If it was that easy !

A J1 waiver physician has to work in an area defined ... an area can also be classified MUA by request of the state governor. These shortage determinations are used to steer the allocation of grants for community health centers, 'critical access hospitals' and other safety net facilities.

It is, as you have said, a political distinction designed for steering federal funds. Is Peoria, Illinois a MUA? I think not, yet it is (or at least was in the not too distant past) so designated.

I wish it was as easy as 'putting an ad in the paper'.

Never said it was easy, since the steps required to be eligible are difficult and expensive as well. (ECFMG, funding issues etc.), but is is done, with frequency.

There are some who do not abuse the process, but there are some that do. And it still begs the question, Is it appropriate that we are a brain drain on the rest of the world?

 

[f_w]

It is, as you have said, a political distinction designed for steering federal funds. Is Peoria, Illinois a MUA? I think not, yet it is (or at least was in the not too distant past) so designated.

Only the MUA designation may be issued by request of a governor. The HPSA designation is based on the numbers alone. And it looks like the docs in Peoria aren't doing such a great job providing care for the low-income segment of the population (Peoria is indeed designated as a HPSA for the low-income population, it is not MUA).

I don't know why it is such an issue to you if communities that didn't have access to physicians before now have such access.

 

[3dtp]

... And it looks like the docs in Peoria aren't doing such a great job providing care for the low-income segment of the population (Peoria is indeed designated as a HPSA for the low-income population, it is not MUA).

I don't know why it is such an issue to you if communities that didn't have access to physicians before now have such access.

This is precisely the issue.

There are adequate population/physician ratios in Peoria. They are not, based on your comment, doing such a great job of caring for low-income segements, and this is not isolated to Peoria, either. The J-1 waiver program is not solving this problem. It is exacerbating a far greater physician supply maldistribution.

The reason it is such an issue is the fact that there is one (1) pathologist (trained in East Germany) in the city of Addis Ababa, with a population well in excess of 2.5M people, or Nazret, where the life expectancy is 44 years, when a city like Peoria with populations about 200,000 has 12 and well over 800 physicians in total. There are likely numerous other examples, this is just one I'm familiar with.

I have lived and worked in these countries. I know the conditions, and I know the poverty. I spent six months training people how to use a simple CT scanner, only to have them bolt to Europe or South Africa, once they possessed knowledge in demand.

I think this is atrocious that the US grabs brightest and best of the world's poorest countries, leaving them worse off, or perhaps not, if greed and comfort are the prime motivators, rather than service to mankind.

At one time, when I was on faculty at a major US university, didn't see the problem in it. Until one day I was trying to recruit a brilliant grad student into my PhD program. He told me he wanted to return to his home country to pass on the skills so desperately needed and he declined a visa waiver, a full fellowship with research funds and a guaranteed post-doc.

But as one poster said, this topic is in another thread and perhaps this discussion should continue on that thread.

 

[f_w]

I think this is atrocious that the US grabs brightest and best of the world's poorest countries

STOP error.

The US doesn't 'grab' the brightest and best of the poorest countries. They come all by themselves.

If the degenerate goverment in Ethiopia hadn't run the country into the ground, the educated layer of their society wouldn't have a reason to emigrate. People come here for a variety of reasons, one of them is that they don't want to put up with the dangers of living in a corrupt third world country.
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2004/41603.htm
gives you 271 paragraphs of reasons why there is only one pathologist in addis.


Also, if you take the effort to look at the statistics regarding the national origin of FMGs, your theory about depleting the poorest countries doesn't really hold up:

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/1550.html

1. India - 19.8% (42,880)
2. Philippines - 9.8% (19,523)
3. Mexico - 5.6% (12,256)
4. Pakistan - 4.7% (10,224)
5. Dominican Republic - 3.3% (7,055)
6. Former USSR - 2.4% (5,343)
7. Grenada - 2.2% (4,812)
8. Italy - 2.2% (4,805)
9. Egypt - 2.2% (4,791)
10. South Korea - 2.1% (4,648)
11. Spain - 2.0% (4,367)
12. China - 1.9% (4,316)
13. Germany - 1.9% (4,240)
14. Iran - 1.9% (4,220)
15. Dominica - 1.6% (3,645)
16. Syria - 1.5% (3,366)
17. England- 1.4% (3,042)
18. Israel - 1.3% (2,972)
19. Colombia 1.3% (2,927)
20. Cuba - 1.3% (2,817)

The majority of FMGs in the US come from countries with a high output of physicians (india,phillipines) or from other developed countries.

There are adequate population/physician ratios in Peoria. They are not, based on your comment, doing such a great job of caring for low-income segements, and this is not isolated to Peoria, either. The J-1 waiver program is not solving this problem. It is exacerbating a far greater physician supply maldistribution.

How exactly is the employment of a J1 waiver physician in a CHC in Peoria exacerbating the maldistribution

(it is atrocious if the 'free trade' policies of the US maintain tariffs on finished agricultural products for importation but flood the world market with subsidized midwestern wheat. this has far more impact on the poverty in a society dependent on agriculture than the brain-drain)

 

[Whodathunkit]

If there are going to be more DO schools, why can't more DO residencies be made? Seems odd that they create what they can't nuture themselves.

 

[MD'05]

If there are going to be more DO schools, why can't more DO residencies be made? Seems odd that they create what they can't nuture themselves.

I agree. Although, I prefer working with DOs to lazy FMGs any day. I am so tired of the incessant whining I hear from some FMGs. I am really starting to see a pattern. These people must come from the upper classes and have servants to do their work at home. I have never seen such whiney people in my life.

 

[funkless]

I agree. Although, I prefer working with DOs to lazy FMGs any day. I am so tired of the incessant whining I hear from some FMGs. I am really starting to see a pattern. These people must come from the upper classes and have servants to do their work at home. I have never seen such whiney people in my life.

....aaaaaaaaaaand here comes the $hitstorm....

(Ducks, covers)

 

[Poety]

I agree. Although, I prefer working with DOs to lazy FMGs any day. I am so tired of the incessant whining I hear from some FMGs. I am really starting to see a pattern. These people must come from the upper classes and have servants to do their work at home. I have never seen such whiney people in my life.

Ouch, you must not work with the FMG's I've worked with who probably work 100x harder just to prove themselves. One of my medicine professors is an FMG, and he is board certified in surgery and medicine - he's done both residencies in the U.S., and he can diagnose a zebra without even thinking about it, he's also won like a ton of teaching awards and such - I'm sure there are lazy people coming from the US MD schools, DO school and the caribs - perhaps you've just had a negative experience at your institution, but I wouldn't say thats the norm.

 

[lilycat]

Great link courtesy of the IM forum (and it answers my question!):

http://www.aamc.org/programs/eras/p...stics/start.htm

On the right side of the page there is a box that says "preliminary year to year data for ERAS 2006" Click on "residency" under December. It's a spreadsheet to download.

 

[Miklos]

Great link courtesy of the IM forum (and it answers my question!):

http://www.aamc.org/programs/eras/p...stics/start.htm

On the right side of the page there is a box that says "preliminary year to year data for ERAS 2006" Click on "residency" under December. It's a spreadsheet to download.

Fantastic info.

Three comments:

1) For some reason, your link above didn't work. So here it is for others.
2) It seems to count DOs as US grads.
3) The IMG numbers are indeed up.

 

[Miklos]

I agree. Although, I prefer working with DOs to lazy FMGs any day. I am so tired of the incessant whining I hear from some FMGs. I am really starting to see a pattern. These people must come from the upper classes and have servants to do their work at home. I have never seen such whiney people in my life.

Ah, yes, I could have seen this coming.

If it isn't MacGywer, it is MD'05 who posted about the great FMG conspiracy to make US grads take the CS or something like that.

It reminds me of what I heard about the Ku Klux Klan in history class. It was said that one could tell the socio-economic status of clan members even when they were wearing their white hoods, by looking at their shoe leather. Their shoes were apparently in very poor shape, indicating that they were from the lowest echelons of white society.

Is it perhaps a possibility that the USMDs (and students, pre-meds, etc..) that worry so much about IMGs on boards like this one wear metaphorical shoes in equally poor shape?

 

[s42brown]

2) It seems to count DOs as US grads

HAAAAAA!
Last time I checked, we are.

 

[Miklos]

HAAAAAA!
Last time I checked, we are.

Yes, but no, when it comes to ACGME residencies and other advantages conferred by LCME status.

The other reason I noted this, was because the NRMP statistics I quote earlier on this thread list osteopathic graduates separately, as do the complete (not prelim) ERAS statistics provided by the AAMC.

 

[MD'05]

Ah, yes, I could have seen this coming.

If it isn't MacGywer, it is MD'05 who posted about the great FMG conspiracy to make US grads take the CS or something like that.

It reminds me of what I heard about the Ku Klux Klan in history class. It was said that one could tell the socio-economic status of clan members even when they were wearing their white hoods, by looking at their shoe leather. Their shoes were apparently in very poor shape, indicating that they were from the lowest echelons of white society.

Is it perhaps a possibility that the USMDs (and students, pre-meds, etc..) that worry so much about IMGs on boards like this one wear metaphorical shoes in equally poor shape?

The fact remains that these particular FMGs are lazy and whiney and I am tired of 1) taking up the slack 2) listening to the whine.

Keep believing what you learned in school, son.

 

[Miklos]

The fact remains that these particular FMGs are lazy and whiney and I am tired of 1) taking up the slack 2) listening to the whine.

Keep believing what you learned in school, son.

So, your minute sample size of how many exactly? Allows you to spew anti-IMG venom?

If this is what US schools offer, then perhaps you are right and I am mistaken, grads like you should really be worried about FMGs.

 

[Sebastian.]

It reminds me of what I heard about the Ku Klux Klan in history class. It was said that one could tell the socio-economic status of clan members even when they were wearing their white hoods, by looking at their shoe leather. Their shoes were apparently in very poor shape, indicating that they were from the lowest echelons of white society.

Is it perhaps a possibility that the USMDs (and students, pre-meds, etc..) that worry so much about IMGs on boards like this one wear metaphorical shoes in equally poor shape?

Eh, no caste system in America. Let's keep it that way. Thanks.



Btw. You didn't learn that little anecdote in history class. At least I hope you didn't, or else I have serious doubts about your education. Absolving upper class (well heeled) elements of US society of involvement in the race problems that have plagued this nation is to dangerously distort the fabric of the reality that our current society derives from. FYI, one of the most influencial KKK grand wizards was a physician. The social make-up of racism in the south and other parts of the country was comprised of all levels, including the privilaged and those entrusted with a broad range of authority. I hope you don't think that racist segregation laws were codified by the "lowest echelons" of society. Racism has been a very deep rooted problem, pervasive at all levels of wealth and education. I'm very proud of everything this country has done to tackle such an evil. We're not at the end of our journey in this respect, but we're on our way. The progress we have made toward racial equality is significant. The first step in making this transformation is permitting ourselves to take an honest view of how serious and ubiquitous the problem has been. Comments like yours are not helpful.

Miklos, if you really must lecture about issues of race and class in American culture, I sugest you learn something about these subjects first.

 

[Miklos]

Eh, no caste system in America. Let's keep it that way. Thanks.



Btw. You didn't learn that little anecdote in history class. At least I hope you didn't, or else I have serious doubts about your education. Absolving upper class (well heeled) elements of US society of involvement in the race problems that have plagued this nation is to dangerously distort the fabric of the reality that our current society derives from. FYI, one of the most influencial KKK grand wizards was a physician. The social make-up of racism in the south and other parts of the country was comprised of all levels, including the privilaged and those entrusted with a broad range of authority. I hope you don't think that racist segregation laws were codified by the "lowest echelons" of society. Racism has been a very deep rooted problem, pervasive at all levels of wealth and education. I'm very proud of everything this country has done to tackle such an evil. We're not at the end of our journey in this respect, but we're on our way. The progress we have made toward racial equality is significant. The first step in making this transformation is permitting ourselves to take an honest view of how serious and ubiquitous the problem has been. Comments like yours are not helpful.

Miklos, if you really must lecture about issues of race and class in American culture, I sugest you learn something about these subjects first.

While the leadership of the Klan both regionally and locally included higher class elements, such as Senator Byrd in his "youth", there is no argument that the foot soldiers of the Klan were overwhelmingly rural poor Southern white folk, whose financial and economic interests were most threatened by blacks.

As far as my academic credentials go, I'm willing to bet that with regard to US History they are at least equal to yours.

 

[me454555]

Anyone who blames FMGs and DOs for making MD residencies more competitive is ignorant. Specialties that are competitive are competitive b/c a lot of people want to go into them. This pool includes USMDs, some w/excellent apps. This increases the competition for a residency. Since USMDs are the overwhelming of applicants for said residency positions, this is mainly what determines how competitive a specialty is for a given year.

FMGs and DOs also add applicaiton but USMDs start w/a leg up. If a DO/FMG and MD apply for the same position w/the same exact stats, the MD will get the position every time. The only time competition exists is when the DO/FMG has a better application than the MD.

I would have to guess that a lot of the USMDs bitching about the competitiveness of their specialty are prolly the same ones w/inadequate apps relative to the rest of the pool for whatever specialty they are choosing. Instead of blaming DOs and FMGs why not blame those same USMDs who had better apps?

 

[MD'05]

While the leadership of the Klan both regionally and locally included higher class elements, such as Senator Byrd in his "youth", there is no argument that the foot soldiers of the Klan were overwhelmingly rural poor Southern white folk, whose financial and economic interests were most threatened by blacks.

As far as my academic credentials go, I'm willing to bet that with regard to US History they are at least equal to yours.

Stop while you are ahead. You know nothing about racism in America. Actually, there are probably more KKK, neo-nazis, and white supremacists in the northern and western US. Please quit ragging on the south.

With a name like Miklos, you should worry more about socialism in Greece.