What's the best way to go about looking for post doc sites? Is using APPIC directory better way than The UPPD route? Any other advices?

[studentdoctorsnetwork123]

The post doc application process seems like a total different beast than an internship.

I'd greatly appreciate some of your advice for post-doc application (e.g., important aspects of the process you wish you knew before applying to post doc).

As a starter, I'm a bit confused on the APPIC vs. UPPD platform. Should I ignore UPPD and just use APPIC, if I'm not interested in non-APA post doc sites?

Given that there is only 1 position for most focus areas, what might be some advice to get myself stand out in the application process?

Particularly I'm interested in a site that I thought we had a strong connection but that I didn't get matched for my internship.

Thank you for all your wisdom

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[WisNeuro]

Look at sites in both places, look for fit. Accreditation is different at the postdoc level, it is not necessary for most things at that point.

 

[silverway]

There is a large imbalance right now with way more open postdoc slots than applicants. I would encourage you to be optimistic about your chances of getting one of your most preferred postdoc positions.

I think I applied to too many sites (twelve). I didn't realize that many sites would have half- or full-day interviews like for internship, which meant I had to squander a lot of my limited vacation days, especially since I didn't get an offer from my top site until interviews had all wrapped up. Someone in my cohort was very successful applying to 4 positions. I think 6-8 is pretty common. A ton of great sites are already saying they have unfilled positions before the common hold date has even passed this year so I wouldn't be too worried about all the good positions filling.

As far as standing out, my only real recommendation is being able to articulate strong fit and interest in your cover letters. You want to be able to make a case for why you have similar enough experience that you'll be able to pick up whatever the work is pretty quickly, but it's okay if you don't have copious experience in that exact thing. I came in with a pretty general health psych focus and did well applying to a variety of health-related positions (sleep, bariatrics, rehab, primary care).

I was only interested in APA-accredited and/or APPIC-affiliated postdoc sites just because I'm anticipating it might make licensure a little easier in California (and it's more of a guarantee of training quality). Not sure if that's the case yet-- I guess I'll know in about a year and a half. I found all mine through the APPIC directory.

One last note-- I reapplied to one site that I interviewed at for internship (I ranked them #1 and did not end up there). They interviewed me for postdoc and were very kind, and I think I would have gotten a spot there if I hadn't accepted another offer first!

 

[studentdoctorsnetwork123]

If I'm interested couples/family post-doc what's the best way to search them up? (is APPIC or UPPD the best way? or should I search up individual institutions with large names, to see if there's any specializations/focus?

 

[PsyDuck90]

Post doc is far less of a formalized process than internship apps. The APPCN neuro match is more formalized, but even that has more variability than the internship experience. The APPIC and UPPD directories are definitely great places to start, as are the listservs for your speciality. Oftentimes, sites with formal postdocs will send out email blasts on relevant listservs, so make sure to join those by next fall to not miss out. Post-docs are a lot less competitive than internships because everyone needs an internship to graduate but a formal postdoc is not always required (barring specific specialties like neuro). For instance, the VA offers GS-11 “graduate psychologist” positions that include supervision to meet state licensure requirements of the state they are located in. People will sometimes also be able to create informal postdocs at sites, especially if they are able to secure a grant or something to justify their salary and negotiate supervision time.

You just matched for internship, so keep your eyes peeled but also, focus on the present and the immediate future. Your attention should be on finishing your dissertation (if you haven’t already) and preparing to move for internship if that applies to you. The time for postdoc prep will come.

 

[sopsyched11]

If you're not neruo then you will definitely have a much easier time securing post doc positions from my experience. This year I applied to 8, received 7 interviews, and 7 offers. I focused on what remaining training I would like to receive that was also in areas I would actually want to live/practice long term. Just use the UPPD to gauge when you'll need letters/have cover letters done and then go from there if doing a formal post doc is what you are wanting -- but until then, enjoy the match high and your internship! It will come faster than you think

 

[studentdoctorsnetwork123]

For instance, the VA offers GS-11 “graduate psychologist” positions that include supervision to meet state licensure requirements of the state they are located in. People will sometimes also be able to create informal postdocs at sites, especially if they are able to secure a grant or something to justify their salary and negotiate supervision time.

Could you share a little bit more on what you mean by this? Does this mean that the VA offers GS-11 "graduate psychologist" positions without postdoc? Does this apply to all VAs? or is this a specific VA thing?

 

[PsyDuck90]

Could you share a little bit more on what you mean by this? Does this mean that the VA offers GS-11 "graduate psychologist" positions without postdoc? Does this apply to all VAs? or is this a specific VA thing?

All VAs will take on recently graduated and unlicensed psychologists for certain staff positions, as long as they have positions open. These positions are GS-11. A GS-13 is a licensed psychologist with 1 year of postdoctoral experience, and a GS-12 is a licensed psychologist with 0 years of postdoctoral experience. So it’s not a guarantee that any one VA will have a good position for you. Did you match to a VA internship? If so, they also do a trainee recruitment event every year for current interns/postdocs where all VAs throughout the country post the positions they have available where they would consider a GS-11, and trainees apply wherever they are interested. If you didn’t match to a VA internship, you should still be eligible for these positions, just not the recruitment event.

This is of course not meant to discourage you from a postdoc, but it’s just meant to let you know that there are a variety of options, and also one of the main reasons why postdoc isn’t as competitive a process as internship. Out of my whole intern cohort, the only ones of us who opted for a postdoc over a job were actually the neuro folks, and we went through the APPCN neuro match. In my program cohort, only 1 person opted for a job over a formal postdoc. So it really just depends on personal circumstances and what you think is right for you. And you have several months before you need to start thinking about that. Your internship should also hopefully be having these professional development conversations with you and your cohort starting in early fall.

 

[summerbabe]

Could you share a little bit more on what you mean by this? Does this mean that the VA offers GS-11 "graduate psychologist" positions without postdoc? Does this apply to all VAs? or is this a specific VA thing?

When you see a job posting in USAJobs, some jobs will only be for GS-13 psychologists and thus not eligible for new grads. But others will say that they are GS-11 through GS-13 eligible, which means that unlicensed folks can apply.

You'll receive 'supervision' which usually is somebody signing off on all of your notes and meeting sporadically (or more depending on your supervisor) in order to meet licensure requirements.

Some facilities, especially ones that are having staffing issues, actively hire GS-11s while others may not because if they are able to retain/recruit fully licensed psychologists, it's less work for the facility.

 

[studentdoctorsnetwork123]

When you see a job posting in USAJobs, some jobs will only be for GS-13 psychologists and thus not eligible for new grads. But others will say that they are GS-11 through GS-13 eligible, which means that unlicensed folks can apply.

You'll receive 'supervision' which usually is somebody signing off on all of your notes and meeting sporadically (or more depending on your supervisor) in order to meet licensure requirements.

Some facilities, especially ones that are having staffing issues, actively hire GS-11s while others may not because if they are able to retain/recruit fully licensed psychologists, it's less work for the facility.

This is so helpful to hear. Now, will these GS-11 for hire immediately after internship? Or is this after post-doc opportunities?

 

[studentdoctorsnetwork123]

All VAs will take on recently graduated and unlicensed psychologists for certain staff positions, as long as they have positions open. These positions are GS-11. A GS-13 is a licensed psychologist with 1 year of postdoctoral experience, and a GS-12 is a licensed psychologist with 0 years of postdoctoral experience. So it’s not a guarantee that any one VA will have a good position for you. Did you match to a VA internship? If so, they also do a trainee recruitment event every year for current interns/postdocs where all VAs throughout the country post the positions they have available where they would consider a GS-11, and trainees apply wherever they are interested. If you didn’t match to a VA internship, you should still be eligible for these positions, just not the recruitment event.

This is of course not meant to discourage you from a postdoc, but it’s just meant to let you know that there are a variety of options, and also one of the main reasons why postdoc isn’t as competitive a process as internship. Out of my whole intern cohort, the only ones of us who opted for a postdoc over a job were actually the neuro folks, and we went through the APPCN neuro match. In my program cohort, only 1 person opted for a job over a formal postdoc. So it really just depends on personal circumstances and what you think is right for you. And you have several months before you need to start thinking about that. Your internship should also hopefully be having these professional development conversations with you and your cohort starting in early fall.

Thank you so much for your thorough response. I was wondering about this as well - how important postdoc is for jobs. One thing my mentor told me is that, although I may be able to immediately get a job right after internship without a postdoc, there might be some job opportunities in the future that might require postdoc. If so, I might be in a funky place. Is this true? Will my post doc status matter after I get licensed? Or will licensure triumph my post-doc status?

 

[summerbabe]

This is so helpful to hear. Now, will these GS-11 for hire immediately after internship? Or is this after post-doc opportunities?

No, they hire directly following internship. The trick is to line up timing between when jobs are posted in a location that you'd be willing to live in, getting through the USAJobs screening process, getting an interview, getting an offer, and onboarding in a time period that matches well with ending internship and needing to draw a paycheck.

If the VA is doing their trainee match program, I would highly recommend it since it will bypass some of the more delay contributing components of USAJobs posted positions.

One thing my mentor told me is that, although I may be able to immediately get a job right after internship without a postdoc, there might be some job opportunities in the future that might require postdoc. If so, I might be in a funky place. Is this true? Will my post doc status matter after I get licensed? Or will licensure triumph my post-doc status?

Some states preference postdoc for licensure but not doing a postdoc likely won't be a barrier but you might have more hoops to jump through depending on the state.

Since postdoc is your last formal training opportunity, I think some employers look a bit more kindly on people who did a postdoc (versus went straight into a job). Additionally, if you are interested in certain specialized positions or board certification in the future, postdoc can be helpful to build up your CV and initial marketability. The further established you are in your career, the less training experiences matter.

I was able to add multiple unique experiences to my CV during my VA postdoc that has helped me secure initial jobs. But YMMV and not every postdoc is a good postdoc. For example, if somebody did an internship in setting x and then did a setting x postdoc where you did the exact same things just with more quantity, it would help with licensure but I don't think that substantially adds to the CV.