What's the point...

[Khurram]

---

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This is posted in response to the closing of the Upenn thread that was shut down...

I for one would like to know why this thread was closed....It seems like anytime something that is the slightest bit controversial is opened on the international dental forums thread it's shut down faster than a pauly shore movie...

Seriously, is this not a DISCUSSION forum? can we not vent our personal views and opinions here? if not , what is the point of this forum? I'm seriously questioning that...the stuff that people get away with saying in the other forums which I peruse often is much more questionable than what is posted here...

So i'm asking for a response from the mods to please let me know why this thread was closed..I wasn't even participating in it, but found it as an informative view of how many people view the UPENN inteview process...

I found nothing in the thread that was objectionable to the rules of conduct here at sdn where I am an active member...are we so close minded that the slightest comment against anyone or anything immediately gets shut down? I'm not trying to start any controversy here, I just want an honest response....the ponit of this place is to discuss opinions, gather information, and hopefully come out better at the end of it...

So what's up?
__________________

 

[Desi-Dentist]

I have to agree with you on this one Khurram. I was a little surprised it was shut down, that too right after I spent time formulating long responses 🙄, which no one probably read. I didn't find anything written extremely offensive, except I was curious at the title of the thread.

Most of us have found this entire admission/interview process to be frustrating and at times, overwhelming, and I did not mind the debate that was going on, and I felt all of us stayed within reasonable limits.

I know our moderator puts a tremendous amount of effort in maintaining this forum and I really appreciate what he has done. Most people admitted into dental school don't bother to come back to this forum to help others, so he must be applauded for his efforts. However, I request that you be a little less stringent on censorship.

This is posted in response to the closing of the Upenn thread that was shut down...

I for one would like to know why this thread was closed....It seems like anytime something that is the slightest bit controversial is opened on the international dental forums thread it's shut down faster than a pauly shore movie...

Seriously, is this not a DISCUSSION forum? can we not vent our personal views and opinions here? if not , what is the point of this forum? I'm seriously questioning that...the stuff that people get away with saying in the other forums which I peruse often is much more questionable than what is posted here...

So i'm asking for a response from the mods to please let me know why this thread was closed..I wasn't even participating in it, but found it as an informative view of how many people view the UPENN inteview process...

I found nothing in the thread that was objectionable to the rules of conduct here at sdn where I am an active member...are we so close minded that the slightest comment against anyone or anything immediately gets shut down? I'm not trying to start any controversy here, I just want an honest response....the ponit of this place is to discuss opinions, gather information, and hopefully come out better at the end of it...

So what's up?
__________________

 

[BDS-DMD]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=255993

Basically let me make it clear that I did not close the thread. As DrMom said, the rules state that if the person who is being accused of something cannot defend himself/herself, the thread will be deleted.

I refrained from closing the thread myself because I did not want any one to feel that I did that only because I am in UPenn myself. Hence I asked DrMom to have a look at it herself and then take the necessary action.

 

[Desi-Dentist]

Thank you for the clarification. Even I do not feel she is the "devil personified". I just feel that there is a perception that UPenn does not have an application process that is entirely understood or transparent, compared to other universities. Plus, it seems like it is the only university that uses a person's ethnic background in their admission decision, which to me does not seem right. Anyway, I will stop the rant here. All this waiting for NYU is making me into some sort of revolutionist.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=255993

Basically let me make it clear that I did not close the thread. As DrMom said, the rules state that if the person who is being accused of something cannot defend himself/herself, the thread will be deleted.

I refrained from closing the thread myself because I did not want any one to feel that I did that only because I am in UPenn myself. Hence I asked DrMom to have a look at it herself and then take the necessary action.

 

[Gaura Nitai]

Hey,

Well, I did not even get to read this thread BEFORE it has been shut down!!
This is "THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA"..EVERYONE and everyone has an EQUAL right to express whatever they feel against about whomever they want!! and however they want it...
if one takes a look at other forums how come everone there gets to express stuff regarding NYU or anyother school for that matter?? and their thread does not get the attention our international forum gets??? beats me!!! 🙄
This is a free country..so says our constitution:
FIRST Amendment

The most basic component of freedom of expression is the right of freedom of speech. The right to freedom of speech allows individuals to express themselves without interference or constraint by the government.

I think we should all be allowed to express our views without any restrictions!!

Good Luck guys... 👍
gn

Thank you for the clarification. Even I do not feel she is the "devil personified". I just feel that there is a perception that UPenn does not have an application process that is entirely understood or transparent, compared to other universities. Plus, it seems like it is the only university that uses a person's ethnic background in their admission decision, which to me does not seem right.

this is funny..desi..and cute.. 😀

Anyway, I will stop the rant here. All this waiting for NYU is making me into some sort of revolutionist.

 

[Toothavenue]

Hey GN, Khurram, Desi dentist,
Great post!! you guys... 👍

Yes I also very much agree that we all should be allowed to express whatever we want and ---freely express our thoughts and opinions!This is USA !!Even our President talks about free speech everyday !!
258 views and students afraid to post--looks are people are scared of Lopez!! 😀
If she acts this way-it will not be long before upenn gets a bad rep because of her! instead of her browsing these forums , she should took take a hard look at her applicants and choose the right ones!!
well even the administration has seen changes with Dr. Berthold away at UMN PASS now!! maybe he could not stand her!!! 😀
Good luck you guys 👍
ta

Hey,

Well, I did not even get to read this thread BEFORE it has been shut down!!
This is "THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA"..EVERYONE and everyone has an EQUAL right to express whatever they feel against about whomever they want!! and however they want it...
if one takes a look at other forums how come everone there gets to express stuff regarding NYU or anyother school for that matter?? and their thread does not get the attention our international forum gets??? beats me!!! 🙄
This is a free country..so says our constitution:
FIRST Amendment

The most basic component of freedom of expression is the right of freedom of speech. The right to freedom of speech allows individuals to express themselves without interference or constraint by the government.

I think we should all be allowed to express our views without any restrictions!!

Good Luck guys... 👍
gn

 

[felini]

Hi 👍 :
I saw those threads before and if someone didn't respect the forum code, you should erase that opinion but not the whole thread which was really interesting.
I agree with Gaura Nitai and others, this is a free country and even Jay Leno talks about the president of USA and makes fun of him .

 

[Athene]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=255993

Basically let me make it clear that I did not close the thread. As DrMom said, the rules state that if the person who is being accused of something cannot defend himself/herself, the thread will be deleted.

I refrained from closing the thread myself because I did not want any one to feel that I did that only because I am in UPenn myself. Hence I asked DrMom to have a look at it herself and then take the necessary action.

Has it got something to do with you being from Upenn?Please be honest.

 

[Khurram]

Has it got something to do with you being from Upenn?Please be honest.

I believe bds-dmd when she said that she did not close the thread..I highly doubt that her going to upenn would influence her conduct here so I'm not placing any blame on her....I'm just expressing a general opinion that nothing controversial nor topic stirring can be posted here without getting shut down and that sucks. I wonder how long it'll be before this thread gets locked too...i'm counting the minutes 😉

 

[Athene]

I believe bds-dmd when she said that she did not close the thread..I highly doubt that her going to upenn would influence her conduct here so I'm not placing any blame on her....I'm just expressing a general opinion that nothing controversial nor topic stirring can be posted here without getting shut down and that sucks. I wonder how long it'll be before this thread gets locked too...i'm counting the minutes 😉

Hey..its him.

 

[Khurram]

Hey..its him.

Are you sure, I was told by an ex batchmate of hers that bds-dmd is a female? correct me if i'm wrong..

 

[dentall]

Are you sure, I was told by an ex batchmate of hers that bds-dmd is a female? correct me if i'm wrong..

It's him.I met him at my UPENN interview.

 

[damast]

sorry no offence here but that was funny

 

[Stelon]

I agree with meetlife and dentaal, please focus on this issue moderator, may be this topic is going on wrong direction.

 

[Athene]

I agree with meetlife and dentaal, please focus on this issue moderator, may be this topic is going on wrong direction.

SShhh...our beloved moderator will close the thread....

 

[Khurram]

It's him.I met him at my UPENN interview.

I'm sorry, my mistake!

 

[damast]

I'm sorry, my mistake!

idhar mishtake se bhi mishtake nahin karne ka.....saheb bahut garam hai

just kiddin guys...hav fun

 

[BDS-DMD]

Khurrum: I had told you myself I am a guy some time back. Incidentally who was this ex-batchmate of mine you are talking about. Actually I will not know that person coz he/she is talking about some female student at Penn.

Meetlife: As I wrote, the main reason I did not take any action on the previous thread was that I did not want people to feel it has something to do with me being at Penn. I met Prady today and he was extremely scared about facing Dr. Lopez tomorrow. That is something I don't like because it does not help in any way.

Thanks for clearing K's confusion about my gender though.

I agree about freedom of speech but there is also a law which prevents criticising any person in his absence as he/she cannot defend himself.

 

[D(M)ental]

Arent we missing the point of this forum?To discuss issues so that we could be successful at boards/admissions?

As far as venting frustrations go....there is a reason why gyms exist...and chocolates and alcohol

Easy does it..que sera sera...what will be,will be.

Take care and I wish everybody sweet success 👍

 

[_cameljockey]

I agree about freedom of speech but there is also a law which prevents criticising any person in his absence as he/she cannot defend himself.

There is??? Is that a U.S. law? You guys sure run a tight ship because I have not seen so much censorship on any public forum, i.e. googlegroups, etc. I think most forums restrict the use of racial slurs, etc... but not discussing an individual, whether it be a celebrity or whomever.

Seems to me like the mods are getting too trigger-happy 😉

 

[rahmed]

..............but there is also a law which prevents criticising any person in his absence as he/she cannot defend himself.

There is NO such law and if the person concerned wants (knowing she spends her valuable time in this forum....what a sad case)....she is very welcome to get a court order...better still she is very welcome to defend herself and post her views in this forum and put the prospective candidates out of their misery (and may be they will be comfortable when facing her).

 

[BlueToothHunter]

I don't think it is appropriate for anonymous bunch of people to name and to talk about that individual in an open public forum (like in SDN) whether it is in a positive or negative way. Sure, there's freedom of speech argument, but if you want to do so, then identify yourself before you start talking about someone behind their back (literally aren't we?). If you won't disclose who you are and you name a person and accuse(?) him/her of the shortcomings, then it almost mounts to defamation in public. And, yes, you will experience another fine American tradition - you'll get sued. (Believe me, you WILL get found out eventually... haven't you heard of wiretap lately? ) So don't hide behind your pseudonym or anonymity to talk about someone. If you are really itching to do so, then do it by identifying yourself.

Common sense people...

 

[Athene]

I met Prady today and he was extremely scared about facing Dr. Lopez tomorrow. That is something I don't like because it does not help in any way.

This forum is not about you liking things or not liking.

If I tell a friend of mine..Hey... I do not like a particular program or a program director ..please keep your nose out of it.

 

[Athene]

I agree about freedom of speech but there is also a law which prevents criticising any person in his absence as he/she cannot defend himself.

Good.I say...."I hate Angelina jolie....she is a freak.She led a divorce of a couple."

Now...Angelina can not defend herself......Does this mean I can not say anything.

Lets close all the forums...newspapers.

 

[anaesthesia]

Good.I say...."I hate Angelina jolie....she is a freak.She led a divorce of a couple."

Now...Angelina can not defend herself......Does this mean I can not say anything.

Lets close all the forums...newspapers.

Point to be noted... Your Honour!!

 

[anaesthesia]

Knowing Dr. Lopez as well as I do, I can assure you that she is not the devil personified. She does not try to put you down. As I said, you are going to face patients in school and outside who are going to have a go at you and she is only trying to see how you react to such direct questioning on your face.

Noone took her name in this thread.. mod... well, atleast not until u did.. 😎 n this is not defamatory??? 🙄

 

[Athene]

I don't think it is appropriate for anonymous bunch of people to name and to talk about that individual in an open public forum (like in SDN) whether it is in a positive or negative way. Sure, there's freedom of speech argument, but if you want to do so, then identify yourself before you start talking about someone behind their back (literally aren't we?). If you won't disclose who you are and you name a person and accuse(?) him/her of the shortcomings, then it almost mounts to defamation in public. And, yes, you will experience another fine American tradition - you'll get sued. (Believe me, you WILL get found out eventually... haven't you heard of wiretap lately? ) So don't hide behind your pseudonym or anonymity to talk about someone. If you are really itching to do so, then do it by identifying yourself.

Common sense people...

True.
Lets start with your identity.

 

[anaesthesia]

I don't think it is appropriate for anonymous bunch of people to name and to talk about that individual in an open public forum (like in SDN) whether it is in a positive or negative way.

Common sense people...

😱 Then Let's close this thread....

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=256334

a bunch of anonymous people are talking about Prady in a positive way.... Common sense... 😉

Sorry Prady!!!

 

[FIXENSMILES01]

3. REVIEW OF POSTINGS & UPLOADS

The Student Doctor Network does not and cannot review all communications and materials posted or uploaded to The Student Doctor Network and is not responsible for the content of these communications and materials. However, The Student Doctor Network reserves the right to block or remove communications or materials that it determines, in its sole discretion, to be (a) abusive, libelous, defamatory or obscene, (b) fraudulent, deceptive, or misleading, (c) in violation of a copyright or trademark, other intellectual property right of another or (d) offensive or otherwise unacceptable to The Student Doctor Network. ANY MESSAGES, ADVICE, OPINIONS OR OTHER INFORMATION CONTAINED IN ANY DISCUSSION AREA SHOULD NOT BE CONSTRUED AS PROFESSIONAL ADVICE OR INSTRUCTION.

6. ON-LINE COMMUNICATIONS

6.1 Your participation in on-line communications occurs in real time and is not edited, censored, or otherwise controlled by The Coastal Research Group. The Coastal Research Group cannot and does not screen content provided by you to The Student Doctor Network. Not withstanding the foregoing, Coastal Research Group reserves the right to monitor content on The Student Doctor Network and to remove content, which Coastal Research Group, in its sole discretion, determines to be harmful, offensive, or otherwise in violation of this Agreement or Coastal Research Group's operating policies for users of The Student Doctor Network ("Users").

10. CONTENT

Statements made in websites, newsgroups, message boards, email, forums, conferences and chats reflect only the views of their authors. Forum managers, forum hosts, CPs, or Merchants appearing on The Student Doctor Network are not authorized Coastal Research Group spokespersons, and their views do not necessarily reflect those of Coastal Research Group

So now that being read. It would seem to be that these guidelines are perfectly clear when it come to:

"Forum managers, forum hosts, CPs, or Merchants appearing on The Student Doctor Network are NOT AUTHORIZED Coastal Research Group spokespersons, and their views do not necessarily reflect those of Coastal Research Group "

The fact that one and I WILL SAY IT AGAIN ONLY ONE persons OPINION does not constitute the enforcement stated by SDN above:

" The Student Doctor Network reserves the right to block or remove communications or materials that it determines, in its sole discretion, to be (a) abusive, libelous, defamatory or obscene, (b) fraudulent, deceptive, or misleading, (c) in violation of a copyright or trademark, other intellectual property right of another or (d) offensive or otherwise unacceptable to The Student Doctor Network."

My suggestion to the monitor is, your responsibility to your "POSITION" on SDN is to simply to enforce these rules set forth by the Parent company "The Coastal Research Group." Not to control the forum based on EMOTIONS you have, due to an opinion of another, to which we are all entitled to. The opinion was NOT "(a) abusive, libelous, defamatory or obscene, (b) fraudulent, deceptive, or misleading." It was merely opinionative. I believe that your MONITOR POSITION is very clear and I respect that you are taking your personal time to monitor. However, being a monitor is like being a Judge you must adjudicate your powers based on the laws and or rules that govern your position and NOT govern by your emotions.

I am sure all of us here on the forum respect each one of our positions and opinions and in said case, because you know the party in question; I feel that your opinion and clarity to the situation warranted a correction based on your personal knowledge of said person and NOT the action of (what I feel is the) abuse of your position.

As far as the person who said what they said, I do feel, that personal names, if you are going to use them, and especially if they are our seniors, should be left anonymous. If not for the respect of there positions. This is unprofessional . We all understand the stress of interviews and what we are all going through to pass the boards and find a program. However an opinion is just that ,an opinion and you are entitled to them on an OPEN forum. We should all learn from this. That we have to remain civil and professionalat all times , in life and in our careers .

I accept your rebuttals and opinions and will not petition to have them stricken from the forum. Bill- FIXENSMILES01. 😀

 

[rahmed]

...........So now that being read. It would seem to be that these guidelines are perfectly clear when it come to:

"Forum managers, forum hosts, CPs, or Merchants appearing on The Student Doctor Network are NOT AUTHORIZED Coastal Research Group spokespersons, and their views do not necessarily reflect those of Coastal Research Group "

The fact that one and I WILL SAY IT AGAIN ONLY ONE persons OPINION does not constitute the enforcement stated by SDN above:

" The Student Doctor Network reserves the right to block or remove communications or materials that it determines, in its sole discretion, to be (a) abusive, libelous, defamatory or obscene, (b) fraudulent, deceptive, or misleading, (c) in violation of a copyright or trademark, other intellectual property right of another or (d) offensive or otherwise unacceptable to The Student Doctor Network."

My suggestion to the monitor is, your responsibility to your "POSITION" on SDN is to simply to enforce these rules set forth by the Parent company "The Coastal Research Group." Not to control the forum based on EMOTIONS you have, due to an opinion of another, to which we are all entitled to. The opinion was NOT "(a) abusive, libelous, defamatory or obscene, (b) fraudulent, deceptive, or misleading." It was merely opinionative. I believe that your MONITOR POSITION is very clear and I respect that you are taking your personal time to monitor. However, being a monitor is like being a Judge you must adjudicate your powers based on the laws and or rules that govern your position and NOT govern by your emotions.

I am sure all of us here on the forum respect each one of our positions and opinions and in said case, because you know the party in question; I feel that your opinion and clarity to the situation warranted a correction based on your personal knowledge of said person and NOT the action of (what I feel is the) abuse of your position.

As far as the person who said what they said, I do feel, that personal names, if you are going to use them, and especially if they are our seniors, should be left anonymous. If not for the respect of there positions. This is unprofessional . We all understand the stress of interviews and what we are all going through to pass the boards and find a program. However an opinion is just that ,an opinion and you are entitled to them on an OPEN forum. We should all learn from this. That we have to remain civil and professionalat all times , in life and in our careers .

I accept your rebuttals and opinions and will not petition to have them stricken from the forum. Bill- FIXENSMILES01. 😀

Very well articulated. Thanks Bill/ FIXENSMILES01.

 

[Khurram]

ORDER IN THE COURT!!!

OOORRDER IN THE COUUURRTT!!

 

[Athene]

ORDER IN THE COURT!!!

OOORRDER IN THE COUUURRTT!!

Sustained.

 

[FIXENSMILES01]

YOU WANT THE TRUTH----------------------YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Athene]

YOU WANT THE TRUTH----------------------YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's also known as information overload.This term has been used over the centuries to evade the truth.

 

[Desi-Dentist]

I was surprised that the thread was deleted since I did not feel we made any personal attacks on the afforementioned UPenn Admission Officer, who will remain nameless. I felt we had mostly provided opinions on a debatable process. Anyway, since Angelina Jolie's name can be mentioned, let me add (to meetlife) that it is not her fault. How can any guy fault her for anything? 😉

At least most of us can pursue a career in law if admission does not work out.

 

[Gaura Nitai]

that is really funny desi!!
love that!!!

well our MOD is really trying to "distract" all of us by this --cool off thread with some riddles !! well what can said!! 🙄 seems to have a lot of time on hand at upenn!! school is not keeping him busy 😎
why can't he take a look at other threads like dental decks 2006 which he started and NOW no one is there to actively guide the students to get their copies of the latest decks from deck corp!!
instead he is always trying to shut down threads whenever anyone wants to talk and discuss anything at all regarding Lopez and Upenn!!!! 🙄
this is a student forum where we are ALL FREE!!! 🙂 👍




At least most of us can pursue a career in law if admission does not work out.[/QUOTE]

 

[Desi-Dentist]

In fairness to our mod at UPenn, he was not the one to shut down the thread.

that is really funny desi!!
love that!!!

well our MOD is really trying to "distract" all of us by this --cool off thread with some riddles !! well what can said!! 🙄 seems to have a lot of time on hand at upenn!! school is not keeping him busy 😎
why can't he take a look at other threads like dental decks 2006 which he started and NOW no one is there to actively guide the students to get their copies of the latest decks from deck corp!!
instead he is always trying to shut down threads whenever anyone wants to talk and discuss anything at all regarding Lopez and Upenn!!!! 🙄
this is a student forum where we are ALL FREE!!! 🙂 👍




At least most of us can pursue a career in law if admission does not work out.

[/QUOTE]

 

[Athene]

Hey..I love SDN....whenever I am stressed I can open the forum and blow off some steam.

 

[Athene]

I was surprised that the thread was deleted since I did not feel we made any personal attacks on the afforementioned UPenn Admission Officer, who will remain nameless. I felt we had mostly provided opinions on a debatable process. Anyway, since Angelina Jolie's name can be mentioned, let me add (to meetlife) that it is not her fault. How can any guy fault her for anything? 😉

At least most of us can pursue a career in law if admission does not work out.

 

[fido!]

hey guys,
anybody took my name???

😱 Then Let's close this thread....

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=256334

a bunch of anonymous people are talking about Prady in a positive way.... Common sense... 😉

Sorry Prady!!!

 

[anaesthesia]

hey guys,
anybody took my name???

ya'! a bunch of them.. they were saying all kinds of nice things about you while you were gone...

 

[fido!]

i know it all pal!thanks for the info!!!

ya'! a bunch of them.. they were saying all kinds of nice things about you while you were gone...

 

[AjayDas]

Khurrum: I had told you myself I am a guy some time back. Incidentally who was this ex-batchmate of mine you are talking about. Actually I will not know that person coz he/she is talking about some female student at Penn.

I am to be blamed! And for that, I apologize. I had mistaken you,BDS-DMD, for a batchmate of mine who applied last year and had mentioned that to Khurrum.
You see I always had this gender problem in SDN. Meetlife, Tanuj and Bond turned out to be females. And finally, I called up Prady at 10pm and a guy picked up the phone. I was like " Tuu Ladka hai? [ You are a guy?] For the record,Prady is a guy. So you guys can sue me.. 😀

Nice to be back in SDN after such a long time.Glad to see that SDN still's the same as I left it sometime back. Helping each other, pulling each other's legs and err getting angry at each other now and then.

Err.. so whoz Ram [ Now that Ramayan's over], What's the point?

 

[Athene]

Nice to be back in SDN after such a long time.Glad to see that SDN still's the same as I left it sometime back. Helping each other, pulling each other's legs and err getting angry at each other now and then.

Err.. so whoz Ram [ Now that Ramayan's over], What's the point?

Welcome back.

 

[Khurram]

I am to be blamed! And for that, I apologize. I had mistaken you,BDS-DMD, for a batchmate of mine who applied last year and had mentioned that to Khurrum.
You see I always had this gender problem in SDN. Meetlife, Tanuj and Bond turned out to be females. And finally, I called up Pradipta at 10pm and a guy picked up the phone. I was like " Tuu Ladka hai? [ You are a guy?] For the record,Pradipta is our Prady [a guy].So you guys can sue me.. 😀

Nice to be back in SDN after such a long time.Glad to see that SDN still's the same as I left it sometime back. Helping each other, pulling each other's legs and err getting angry at each other now and then.

Err.. so whoz Ram [ Now that Ramayan's over], What's the point?

See I was misinformed!!

 

[fido!]

ya ya!bol de beta!mein laadki?(i'm a girl??)why?any objections?i'm proud to b a guy!!! tera din aagaya(u r dayz r numbered!!!)

I am to be blamed! And for that, I apologize. I had mistaken you,BDS-DMD, for a batchmate of mine who applied last year and had mentioned that to Khurrum.
You see I always had this gender problem in SDN. Meetlife, Tanuj and Bond turned out to be females. And finally, I called up Prady at 10pm and a guy picked up the phone. I was like " Tuu Ladka hai? [ You are a guy?] For the record,Prady is a guy. So you guys can sue me.. 😀

Nice to be back in SDN after such a long time.Glad to see that SDN still's the same as I left it sometime back. Helping each other, pulling each other's legs and err getting angry at each other now and then.

Err.. so whoz Ram [ Now that Ramayan's over], What's the point?