Where did you have a *great* student EM rotation?

Discussion in 'Emergency Medicine' started by IlianaSedai, Apr 9, 2004.

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  1. RustedFox

    RustedFox We're all stars now. In the GOAT RODEO. 7+ Year Member

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    Furthermore; these last few posts are proof that nothing is sacred. We often like to think that learning medicine is a pure meritocracy - especially because of the ethics involved in what we do on a daily basis in terms of patient care. Its not. Not by a long shot. I had off-service seniors (as a resident) who were total wankers due to their own (very obvious) personality disorders and insecurities and cognitive distortions, and all that. They turn into attendings who have the same objectivity problems. I had on-service attendings who (in retrospect) taught me what NOT to do by example.

    Its a bummer - but its true.

    Y'all can laugh at me for this one, or commiserate, or feel good/bad/however; but here goes.

    I was an MS3 on my gen.surg rotation. Gen.Surg attending is well-known to be a total d!ckhead; because that's what he does. All it takes it a few minutes to figure out that he was the fat, nerdy guy who took his cousin to prom (or whatever), and he ruled his kingdom with an iron first. Good for you; Dr.Douchebag. If you can believe it; I was more of a loudmouthed smartass as a medical student than I am on here. You could see how this guy and I were going to be just besties, right ?!

    So, its 2-3 weeks from the end of the gen.surg hellhole, and word gets out to the student body that Dr.Douchebag was fired; basically for being himself. I take the opportunity to mouth-off and make a few jokes without checking over my shoulder to see who is listening. Dr. D.Bag catches up with me a day or so later alone... squeaks at me: "I heard what you had to say about my situation. I'll just say this; paybacks are a bitch, kid."

    I sweat it for a day or two. D.Bag's secretary asks me into her space one day. Pulls out a letter that D.Bag wrote to my dean, basically telling him that I'm the worst person ever. Many things that aren't close to true are in there. I'm a bigot. I'm late/I never showed up (I was never a once even close to late)... yadda yadda yadda.

    Secretary gal says to me: "You know D.Bag is gone, right? Well, I thought you might want to read this before I tear it up and throw it in the garbage." She proceeded to shred that sucker in front of me with her two gigantic eastern european hands. "You don't think that you're better than anyone else. He could stand to learn that lesson."

    Letter never made it anywhere.

    Moral of the story? Always be nice to people, unless you have a damn good reason. Then, eff them.
     
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  3. Cinclus

    Cinclus Es un pájaro. Moderator Emeritus 5+ Year Member

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    It's really coming to light that this happens fairly frequently. It stings pretty badly when you busted your butt on your app and on aways, got good verbal feedback, and wind up blindsided. It is much worse than a sting if you fail to match at all, but that obviously has happened. I hate this process, and I am glad it is over (for me).
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2016
  4. Cinematographer

    Cinematographer More chill in real life Gold Donor 5+ Year Member

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    Program: Highland/Alameda County
    Rotation: Ultrasound
    SLOE Experience: N/A

    Comments: I was on the ultrasound rotation so I can only give details for that, but an amazing month. You work with the fellows who are training and you just float through the department scanning anyone and everyone who needs it. You become extremely competent very quickly in US scans, including FAST exams, DVT studies, nerve blocks, etc. You will be required to attend resident seminars on Wednesday morning and student teaching days on Thursday. Only con about this rotation: Not the most accessible hospital by public transit nor the safest neighborhood to walk around at night. However, it is doable.

    Program itself: Well-respected 4 year program and very competitive. The EM program was the first residency program in the hospital so they run the show at Highland. Residents are given a lot of freedom to do a lot of procedures and do a lot of advanced stuff very early. Very family oriented, no one is called doctor but instead residents and attendings all go by their first names. Attendings have residents over often for family meals and such. Residents extremely close knit and are encouraged to put out a lot of research. Most people end up staying in the Bay Area after finishing this residency.

    ________
    @Cinematographer's comment: Thanks to everyone how has continued to contribute to this thread. There was a surge of new reviews submitted this week. Glad to see this thread has helped rising MS4s.
     
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  5. Cinematographer

    Cinematographer More chill in real life Gold Donor 5+ Year Member

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    Program: UT Austin
    Rotation: EM Clerkship
    SLOE Experience: Sent in a timely manner

    Comments: I've lurked on these forums for years but never bothered to create an account or review my away electives. I saw that some of the Austin residents posting on their residency thread, so I decided to chime in with my experience. I can only hope that the negative comments are viewed by these residents as an opportunity to improve their visiting student rotation and not as an attack on the program.

    My stats:
    DO at northeast school.
    Matched at #1 program.
    STEP 1> 245 STEP 2 > 260.
    Mostly Honors. Did 4 rotations, all ACGME.
    Austin rotation was my last away. I'd be lying if I told I rotated there because of "accomplished faculty, high acuity, amazing didactics, or reputation." These are things UT Austin lacks. I went there because it's Austin and I'm not apologetic about it lol.

    Rotation structure:
    You work 14 nine-hour shifts at one of their two sites.
    You attend resident didactics/lectures weekly.
    Relatively low volume ED.
    Was able to do some lac repairs and I&Ds; nothing else.
    No exit exam (NBME or SAEM at the end).
    No feedback forms are completed at the end of your shift.
    No midpoint feedback.

    So, to the actual review:
    I would NOT recommend this program as a place to get a SLOE from given its current atrocious evaluation system. I received a "decent" SLOE from them, but I'm embarrassed to say that it was probably all generic/copy & paste stuff and not based on my actual performace since their end-of-shift evaluation system is pretty much nonexistent. My advisor (an aPD at another MD program I rotated at, who graciously decided to coach me through the residency application process) told me, word for word, that "UT Austin writes a lot of sh!tty SLOEs," and that this is an issue many other (Texas) "CORD EM faculty have become aware of." The actual rotation experience was just... bland. I came off from three great rotations prior to this one, and I was not impressed by their faculty or residents. Residents were super nice though, and a good number of them want to teach you. Most attendings will avoid you like you have an "ebola-positive patient" ID badge on. There were no student-centered didactics and overall the level of responsibility given to rotators is very low.

    There's been some talk about the program becoming anti-DO. I don't think this is necessarily true, at least not YET. The Dell Medical School and revamped UT Austin system came to life only very recently, so any anti-DO practices won't become evident for at least another interview/match cycle.

    tl;dr: unimpressive, kind of pretentious program that has so far amounted to nothing in EM has a poorly thought-out audition rotation. I rate it a "risk fücking up your application"/10. Cheers.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2016
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  6. Cinematographer

    Cinematographer More chill in real life Gold Donor 5+ Year Member

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    Program: NYU Bellevue
    Rotation: EM Sub-Internship
    SLOE Experience: Sent in a timely manner

    Comments:
    Site(s): Mostly NYU Bellevue Adult ED, a huge Manhattan level 1 trauma center. Will also work shifts at VA ED, Peds Bellevue ED, Joint Trauma Hospital ED, and NYC Toxicology center.

    Rotation: This is a Sub-I (AI). Typically students will work anywhere between 4-6 8hr shifts a week, will also be expected to attend all morning reports, resident seminars on Wednesdays, and student lecture days which are held on Thursday morning. Bellevue is extremely busy, and students are usually expected to pick up patients and do everything for them, including starting IVs and drawing labs. Students are actively involved in trauma codes. This rotation was very busy, but very hands-on and I learned a lot. I am very glad I did this.

    Program: A well-respected 4 year program, with a large portion of residents going into academics afterwards. About ⅓ go on to do a fellowship. The department chair is the person who founded the field of emergency medicine so this department is very active in EM academics. Also runs the toxicology center for NYC, so there is always very interesting stuff going on there.
     
  7. Cinematographer

    Cinematographer More chill in real life Gold Donor 5+ Year Member

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    Program: Denver Health/University of Colorado
    Rotation: EM Clerkship
    SLOE Experience: Sent in a timely manner

    Comments:
    – 16 or 17 shifts, mostly 8 hours
    – Main ED divided into Medicine and Trauma sides
    – PGY-4 oversees interns/students (4 students/interns per shift, 2 per side)
    – Attending and/or PGY-4 submit written evaluation every shift
    – True subinternship quality- you pick up whoever you want, chart, write orders (have them co-signed), and perform all procedures on your patients. Staff with seniors
    – Student didactics: splint and suture lab; 4 hours on Monday mornings
    – Resident didactics: M&M at 7:30am on Wednesday mornings (attendance expected), lectures until noon (attendance optional)
    15 minute presentation on EM topic of your choice

    The program: Extremely well-respected, historically excellent program. Very established department with almost no turf battles. Off-services very strong, but definitely respect the ED a lot. Focuses on developing “leaders” in EM. Mix of county, academic, and private settings = excellent preparation for any type of career. PGY1s “learn core EM”; PGY2s and 3s “move the meat” in Medicine and Trauma, respectively; PGY4s run the department. About >1/3 of grads go into academics or fellowships. Notoriously rigorous, but definitely not “malignant.” One of the things that impressed me most was the extremely high quality of residents and their humility. On my first shift, the senior resident apologized to me for making me wait 15 minutes to present a patient- he was in his 2nd month running the department and was supervising at least 40 patients. Not the most “buddy-buddy” place on the whole, but definitely supportive community between residents and with faculty. They definitely take the “work hard, play hard” cliché to a new level- each class usually goes in on a ski lodge/condo for the season and one of the PGY2s used it 30 times as an intern. Denver is an amazing, though not extremely diverse city. Lots of outdoors, beer, great restaurants, art, music.
     
  8. Cinematographer

    Cinematographer More chill in real life Gold Donor 5+ Year Member

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    Program: Western Michigan University
    Rotation: EM Sub-Internship
    SLOE Experience: Sent in a timely manner

    Comments: Great rotation. You are paired 1 on 1 with faculty every shift and hardly see another student. Good mix of procedural experience and traumas. Pediatrics is integrated at Bronson, not sure about Borgess. Conference is once a week with free food and you also get to attend their pig lab where you get to practice rare procedures on live pigs under general anesthesia. They provide free housing. Shifts are 9-10 hours and you get a good mix of days and nights. They schedule them very well. You do have to take a shelf exam on the last day of the rotation.

    Program: This program was well-known on the interview trail. Dr. Overton (former PD and current DC) is very well-known in the EM community and has been around since the beginning of EM, having worked side by side with Dr. Tintinalli in his early days. He built the WMed program from the ground up. This is the only EM program that has an intensive EMS experience. Residents man their own EMS response SUV 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. They are assigned 1-2 24hr shifts per month and respond to codes in the field and whatever else they are needed for. The resident vehicle, “WMed 1”, is highly respected by EMS personnel in the field and is put to good use. Also, this program has a pig lab 1-2 times per month where residents are able to practice rare procedures, such as thoracotomies, on live pigs under general anesthesia.

    Biggest con: Kalamazoo... Not the most lively city/town I've been in.
     
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  9. mega_colon

    mega_colon 2+ Year Member

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    Now im a little naive to legal issues, but it seems like any other field this would be slander and probably grounds for a lawsuit to tank someone's career over untrue statements.
     
  10. TimesNewRoman

    TimesNewRoman 2+ Year Member

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    Are you not a practicing emergency physician?
     
  11. Cinematographer

    Cinematographer More chill in real life Gold Donor 5+ Year Member

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    I think the point of @Dr.McNinja's story was that he could have gone unmatched a second time had that chief resident not warned him about the undeserved negative SLOE. In his case, he matched, but other people have not been as fortunate.
     
  12. TimesNewRoman

    TimesNewRoman 2+ Year Member

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    I get the point. My point is just that a bad sloe can suck a ton - I'm not taking anything about that - but to say it's a career ruiner is a bit of an overstatement. We all still need to remember that US docs (in spite of all the awful nonsense that comes with practicing medicine in the US), still have it pretty good. It can make you lose a year of your life if you have to scramble. You can give up and pick another specialty. But you still will almost certainly have a successful career in medicine. I know someone who got a bad SLOE (in addition to mediocre grades, poor step scores, etc) and didn't match - he's practicing FM now and happy. If you don't match EM, there are plenty of spots on gas, FM, IM, etc every year.

    To some extent we're arguing semantics, but I am just trying to help people keep a level head and understand you still have a successful career in front of you.
     
  13. Cinematographer

    Cinematographer More chill in real life Gold Donor 5+ Year Member

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    If he had not matched the second time around (which is the scenario he described), it would have most certainly been a career ruiner. Can't imagine a second-time reapplicant having a shot at matching to a residency program.

    I don't have anything else to add.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2016
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  14. Dr.McNinja

    Dr.McNinja Nobel War Prize Winner SDN Moderator 10+ Year Member

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    Not really. It would be like your disability insurance coming to you and saying, yeah, you can't be an EP, but you can be a psychiatrist, so go have at it. We aren't paying you. Sure, you could go do it and be successful. But your emergency career is over. Simply put. And what if you can't scramble into a spot because of that bomb in your application?
    You and I can disagree, but the truth is that one away rotation can sink your ability to be an EP. Just like one mistake in medical school can sink your doctorate. I think telling people to exercise prudence is better than simply telling them that there's no truth to the fact that every year, many people who want careers in emergency simply don't match, and there aren't scramble spots. Telling someone that they should buck up and do a different job is pretty tone deaf.
     
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  15. TimesNewRoman

    TimesNewRoman 2+ Year Member

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    We'll agree to disagree. I don't want to sound like a d-bag or make light of a bad situation, I was trying to offer hope. I'm just saying that if someone told me I couldn't practice EM, I'd be devastated, but eventually I would have a successful career in rads or gas or FM or whatever.

    Sorry to those that have really gotten screwed by inappropriately bad SLOEs. That will be the last thing I say on the topic.
     
  16. mega_colon

    mega_colon 2+ Year Member

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    Hypothetical, but say you have 3 SLOEs and discover one is a grenade. How bad does it look to just not submit that one, assuming the other two are good?
     
  17. Cinclus

    Cinclus Es un pájaro. Moderator Emeritus 5+ Year Member

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    While not the ideal situation, it looks way better than submitting a grenade.
     
  18. Petypet

    Petypet 7+ Year Member

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    Fwiw, I had 2 sloes, 1 lor from my research PI, and 1 lor from an EM attending, and as it is we could only submit 4 lor to each programs. I had a 3rd sloe (don't know if it was positive or negative) that was made available to me after eras opened and released applications. I could have made that SLOE available somehow, not entirely sure how, but essentially that 3rd sloe was never seen by a program. Didn't hurt me.

    That said, I can't imagine everyone has perfect sloes and this whole paranoid stuff going on in these forums seems a bit blown out of proportion.
     
  19. MackandBlues

    MackandBlues 5+ Year Member

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    Program director said they got 1500 applications for 80 interview slots
     
  20. Cinematographer

    Cinematographer More chill in real life Gold Donor 5+ Year Member

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    Did you just post that by mistake?
     
  21. EMhopeful2017

    EMhopeful2017

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    Has anyone rotated at or know anyone who has rotated at Penn State? Any insight?
     
  22. Cinematographer

    Cinematographer More chill in real life Gold Donor 5+ Year Member

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    Program: Ohio State University
    Rotation: EM Clerkship
    SLOE Experience: Sent in a timely manner

    Comments:
    Student of the University, clerkship for home and visiting students are routine shifts in the ED. If visiting or interested in EM you can do shifts at main campus OSU and OSU East (their community sites). OSU students are required to EM, and for 4th year we spread out to other hospitals in the area, but being interested in EM I was based out of main campus. Good luck getting a visiting rotation since OSU students have this as a mandatory rotation, and we rarely have visiting students.

    Rotation details: The rotation is roughly 15 shifts, plus or minus a few, spread out over mornings, afternoons, and nights. Also have a few misc shifts, such as shifts in their cancer ED, "expert educator shifts" where you are observed and graded by your peers and 1 attending, CDU shifts, medic ride along, and/or peds shifts. Little to no interaction with the residency program, unless you sought it out. OSU has its own student didactics that go on during the rotation.

    SLOE: The grading system is computerized but very buggy, and few students work with the SLOE writer. After my meeting with that attending I had a feeling that I did not get a great SLOW.

    OSU Main campus: gorgeous, busy, tons of learners, tons of sick patients
    OSU East: community ED, busy, less teaching, usually got out early

    Faculty: Some are interested in education, some don't care.

    Overview of rotation: I did 2 aways at 1 county program and 1 other academic program, both on the east coast. This rotation was mediocre, didn't jive with residents, and the evaluation process wasn't well developed. Some faculty and some residents are interested in teaching, some don't care, par for the course I suppose. Working with those residents and faculty that were interested in education was worthwhile, but those not interested, the interaction was not great. You pick up a patient, do H&P, present to a resident in their little pods, and then order labs. Little autonomy, little procedures.

    Would recommend the residency program as a mid tier EM program, would not recommend the clerkship to non-OSU students.
     
  23. TheOther

    TheOther 2+ Year Member

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    Dude @Cinematographer , thanks so much for all of your time and energy in contributing for all of us interested in EM. It's so appreciated.
     
  24. doggydog

    doggydog Woof.

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    Agreed, we really appreciate it.
     
  25. jgalt42

    jgalt42 7+ Year Member

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    Has anyone rotated an away at UC Davis before? How was your experience?
     
  26. Got Em

    Got Em ... 10+ Year Member

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    Anyone rotate at USF, Georgetown, or WashU?
     
  27. EMhopeful2017

    EMhopeful2017

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    Anyone know anything about the rotation at University of Maryland?
     
  28. House911MD

    House911MD 2+ Year Member

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    Any info on the EM away elective at UF-Gainesville?
    Unless I overlooked it, I don't see any comments on this thread yet.
     
  29. Cinematographer

    Cinematographer More chill in real life Gold Donor 5+ Year Member

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    Everytime an MS3 posts "can anyone comment on the rotation at x" I go back to the anonymous Google Form and check if anything has been submitted recently.

    Nothing in the past couple weeks, unfortunately.
     
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  30. Cinematographer

    Cinematographer More chill in real life Gold Donor 5+ Year Member

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    Program: The University of Oklahoma (Tulsa)
    Rotation: EM Clerkship
    SLOE Experience: Sent considerably late

    Comments:
    Didactics: Student/Resident/Faculty lecture every Thursday morning. Some resident taught and some guest/faculty taught. These were useful and not a waste of time. If you go here during intern orientation then you can go to their skills labs too.

    Faculty/Residents: Dr. Burns, the program director, is an awesome guy. The other main faculty were really awesome too. Some of the attendings were not OUDEM faculty, but they were all committed to teaching too. No problems with any of the residents. Hung out with some of them outside of the ED. Everyone pretty welcoming.

    Shifts: Cannot remember how many I did, but it seemed about average. 9 hours each with the majority days (residents do 12's). The coordinator is pretty relaxed about switching around your shifts (within reason).

    Student Involvement/Responsibilities: You have a lot of freedom to do as much and as little as you want (Don't do the latter obviously). No direct responsibilities given, but make yourself useful. You are on your own to go see patients before the residents. Presentations are to the residents and faculty. You get pretty familiar with the bread and butter medicine patients, which is good, but you don't really get much of a trauma experience. If you do this rotation, I would for sure recommend doing one at trauma center too, so you get both experiences. I got to do a decent amount of procedures like suturing/I&D's/burns/etc. There is no shelf/final exam, but you are given access to the AAEM questions. I was told that they don't take your scores into consideration for the SLOE, but rather how many of them you complete (do them all, duh).

    Logistics: I stayed at an extended stay hotel for a month at about $1000, but there are a few cheaper options. One of the interns was renting a room at her house for much less. Huge perk is that you get free meals, snacks, energy drinks, coffee, etc. at the pretty decent cafeteria. That actually saved me a lot of money. They use VSAS and worked with my school's schedule.

    Evaluation: They do a department SLOE and will not do individuals, so you can only get 1 (if that is something that matters to you). You get unlimited eval cards to give to residents/attendings after your shift. I really favored this way of getting evals. Evidently, they also do the "put a picture up and discuss the student" thing before writing SLOEs (most places do something like this). I never saw my SLOE, but from what I heard during interviews was that is was at least very good, or better. The only real negative about this rotation was that everyone who rotated here got their SLOE uploaded a few days after the Dean's letters were released. I think it was due to them switching up the main letter writer this year, so hopefully that will be better next year. It was kind of a bummer though since I rotated here so early, but I don't think it really affected me in any way.

    Overall: Great first EM rotation with really cool faculty. Lots of freedom to make the rotation your own and no final/shelf exam. Good way of evaluating students. Lacking in trauma and slightly late SLOE. Free food!!! I would recommend this rotation to other students.
     
  31. blmnt127

    blmnt127

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    Does anyone have any info on the rotation/SLOEs/experience at Beth Israel Deaconess and/or Mass General/Brigham in Boston? Would appreciate it, thanks!
     
  32. doggydog

    doggydog Woof.

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    Bump.

    If you did an EM rotation this month, submit a review.
     
  33. EndersRebutal

    EndersRebutal MS-2 2+ Year Member

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    I feel like this could affect some peoples anonymity even if we send it through Cinematographer. I plan to post mine after the interview season. Call me neurotic, but why take the chance?
     
  34. KinesiologyNerd

    KinesiologyNerd 2+ Year Member

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    I see what you're saying, but if you weren't the only rotator and don't totally flame the program I doubt anyone cares.

    Reviews don't really need to be done now, but by the time interview season is over people are making away rotation decisions. Maybe @Cinematographer can batch them and post them in a couple months? I feel like that would help anonymity.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2016
  35. illegallysmooth

    illegallysmooth Smooth member 7+ Year Member

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    I think it depends if you're working with residents or attendings. Either way, being early, re-checking your patients, checking pending labs frequently, checking for imaging results, seeing if a med is given or xrays were taken, taking on another patient, etc -- those things are done by students who look like they're "busting tail." The student who sits and writes notes until asked for an update on something doesn't appear that way.
     
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  36. doggydog

    doggydog Woof.

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    It seems as though most medical students on EM rotations do all of these things. Hard to separate yourself into the top 10% honors territory of everyone is doing those things
     
  37. Cinematographer

    Cinematographer More chill in real life Gold Donor 5+ Year Member

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    If you guys/gals want you can submit a review now while your memory of the rotation/program is still fresh, and in the comments section you can include a brief message letting me now when you would like it to be posted.
     
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  38. KinesiologyNerd

    KinesiologyNerd 2+ Year Member

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    Help. The. Nurses.
     
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  39. Cinematographer

    Cinematographer More chill in real life Gold Donor 5+ Year Member

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    Program: Temple University
    Rotation: EM Sub-Internship
    SLOE Experience: SLOE sent in a timely manner

    Comments:
    Didactics: Rotators go to resident lectures (Thursday 8-12) and student lectures (Friday 12-3). Student lectures are predominantly sim sessions. Students are expected to participate in resident didactics, and they integrate you pretty well.

    Faculty/Residents: Worked with the PD and assistant PD and they were both great and very approachable. Faculty across the board is a lot of fun and clearly enjoy having students and teaching. Same goes for the residents- all very happy and willing to help the students. Clerkship director is very accommodating.

    Shifts: 13-15 8 hour shifts. Nights aren't scheduled together, but we only did 2 and the schedule is circadian with no doubling back.

    Student Involvement: Students work a variety of shifts in all 3 zones (based on acuity). Your shift matches the attending shift so you're with him/her the entire shift. Most allow you to pick up patients as you like, but same want you to check with them. This is mostly so they can give you the most educational patient which is cool. Sometimes they will tell you to slow down, however, because they have to do your charting.
    PLENTY of procedures to go around, and senior residents especially are more than happy to give you procedures. They get the most GSWs in Pennsylvania so you'll see at least 1 per shift. If you're in a lower acuity zone you're pretty much expected to go observe/help in the traumas and codes. The only critique I have is that it is tough as a student in the red (high acuity) zone. There are 2 attendings, 2 seniors, 2 interns, and 2 students for 25 rooms (plus hallway). Residents tend to pounce on patients, but if you tell them you need a patient they'll usually let you have one. So you tend to see fewer patients than the other 2 zones. Just find other ways to help (IVs, EKGs, foleys).

    Finally, EM is a required rotation at Temple so their students take the shelf, but away rotators do not.

    Logistics: I used airbnb for an apartment in Center City and took the subway to the hospital as the area around the hospital is very violent. Parking passes can be purchased, but they were $100.

    Evaluations: Away rotators' grades are 90% evals and 10% participation on a discussion board. Attendings do an electronic eval of you every shift. They're pretty good at providing verbal feedback to finish the shift. SLOEs are a departmental letter based on your evals written by the clerkship director. Haven't gotten the SLOE, but if they follow the timeline provided it will be up before 9/15.

    Overall: Great rotation with amazing people that I really gelled with. Lots of procedures and high acuity patients that students are allowed to manage. You'll learn and work a lot on shift, but still have time to explore what could be your new home.
     
  40. Cinematographer

    Cinematographer More chill in real life Gold Donor 5+ Year Member

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    Jun 20, 2010
    Denver, CO
    Posted anonymously via Google Forms

    Program: Baylor College of Medicine
    Rotation: EM Sub-Internship
    SLOE Experience: SLOE sent in a timely manner

    Comments:
    Location: Houston is the 3rd largest city; think BIG COUNTY hospital affiliated with a very academic and research heavy institution

    Didactics: Med students have our own break out sessions which are high yield for the rotation. We did some oral boards type cases, simulation, procedure labs, and management of common conditions (COPD exacerbation, CHF exacerbation, etc). We also went to resident didactics (optional) and I loved the 30 minute format of each lecture. Mix of resident and faculty lectures. Everyone was awake which is kind of amazing. High yield to know there is food at lecture...

    Faculty: I didn't get to work with everyone. I worked with the PD who is hilarious. He trained in Chicago and got back here as soon as possible. He is one of the smartest cookies around. I also worked with the APD Dr. Jenks who is quite possibly the doctor I hope to emulate. He is very kind, evidence-based, and constantly striving for improvement in the program. He seems to genuinely care. The rest of faculty are mix of older and younger docs who have interests across the board from EMS to Research to Simulation to SPACE MEDICINE to Ultrasound, International, Oncologic Emergency, you name it!

    Residents: I can't speak for all the residents, but the group as a whole seems to be very motivated. They care for the patients a ton and know how to treat some of the sickest people I have ever seen. The residents regularly gave feedback on shift and even high-fived me a few times. I felt that they were very comfortable with the role of an away student and were really interested in getting to know me, hanging out with me. One intern even gave me a list of places she enjoys around town!

    Journal Club: At some swanky attending's house. He's some kind of cardio research Guru...good turn out.

    Procedures: Did central line, lac repairs, I&Ds, paras, etc.

    Overall vibe: Loved it. The clerkship director made sure we got interviewed before we left so we didnt have to visit again and they got documentation/SLOE stuff schedules out to us...and it's in time for ERAS so woot!
     
  41. Cinematographer

    Cinematographer More chill in real life Gold Donor 5+ Year Member

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    Jun 20, 2010
    Denver, CO
    Posted anonymously via Google Forms

    Program: University of Alabama
    Rotation: EM Clerkship
    SLOE Experience: Other

    Comments:
    Didactics: Student specific didactics are every week, generally about 3 hours total. Only a few lectures, mostly hands on workshops. But the lecturers that gave our lectures were fantastic. The last week there is a joint simlab with 5th semester BSN students. It was a great experience, and is how I wish simlabs always were run. Attendance to didactics is "optional" but you should go. Not required, nor "encouraged" to attend resident conference so no need to attend this.

    Faculty/Residents: Dr. Peterson (the clerkship director and APD) is an amazing and personable person. All the faculty that I interacted with were really involved with teaching the students, residents. Mostly younger attendings with a few of the very first EM boarded attendings in the country. All passionate about education. The residents are really great teachers, and personable people. Honestly the nicest people I have ever worked with were UAB's EM residents.

    Shifts: 15 shifts + 1 EMS ride along or 16 ER shifts. All 8 hours, you don't stay much after your shift is over. Clinical pearl before and after shift in breakroom taught by an attending. 2 of the shifts in the POD 5 (trauma) and 2 shifts are at highlands (a pseudo UAB community ED, down the street from UAB)

    Student Involvement/Responsibilities: Pick up patients the second they are in a room. UAB is very quick and does not like to leave patients in rooms for very long before they are seen. Evaluate, present plan to senior on service +/- attending presentation. Some residents will have you write a note and save it and send to them to edit. You don't put in orders. You will probably be the one doing procedures on patients in the pod in general (even not your own). Unless the intern is in need of a particular procedure.

    Logistics: BHam has fairly reasonable housing options from hotels to short term rental companies.

    Evaluation: SLOE will be provided and APD guarantees it by 1-2 weeks after ERAS opens up. Shift cards given to senior or attending on every shift.

    Overall: Incredible experience. For those looking for a hospital with crazy pathology, good teaching, in an interesting city; I'd recommend UAB. 10/10 would rotate again.
     
  42. Cinematographer

    Cinematographer More chill in real life Gold Donor 5+ Year Member

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    Jun 20, 2010
    Denver, CO
    Posted anonymously via Google Forms

    Program: West Virginia University
    Rotation: EM Clerkship
    SLOE Experience: Sent in a timely manner

    Comments:
    Extremely chill rotation. Level 1 trauma center in a college town, and only 1 of 2 level 1 centers in the entire state. Residents and faculty are all very friendly, amount of teaching varies by individual. No notes to write, EMR is EPIC. Sign up for no more than 2-3 patients at a time. Can present to and work with Pgy-2 and up. Lots of ultrasound experience, not many other procedures save the occasional lac repair, maybe an LP.

    Typically 14 shifts over 4 weeks including an optional Healthnet (helicopter) EMS shift, 2 shifts at Urgent Care, and others at the main ED. End of rotation exam is one of the SAEM tests.

    Felt very comfortable rotating here, feel like there is an above average opportunity to do well and receive and average/above average SLOE.
     
  43. Cinematographer

    Cinematographer More chill in real life Gold Donor 5+ Year Member

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    Jun 20, 2010
    Denver, CO
    Posted anonymously via Google Forms

    Program: LSU New Orleans
    Rotation: Sub-Internship
    SLOE Experience: Other

    Comments:
    The least useful of all my EM sub-Is. I love the patient population, love the city, love the Charity mission, but you are essentially a third year medical student shadowing the residents and playing the "game" of asking them questions to ingratiate yourself for 12 hours. There is no organization, no responsibilities, and no reporting to the senior resident or attending. You will follow whoever seems the least hostile on any given shift, which is usually the intern. This person will occasionally humor you by letting you talk to the patient alone for 2-3 minutes before the resident walks in and takes over. Prepare for bluntly negative evaluations if you, like me, have never been good at this game.

    Other parts of this rotation? A few nondescript lectures and a journal club night. This is overall a very worrisome environment which has been described to me by residents at other programs as a place where residents are expected to "learn from the senior resident rather than the attending." I had entire shifts where not a single word was exchanged with the senior resident or the attending. Overall, a lot of red flags.
     
  44. Cinematographer

    Cinematographer More chill in real life Gold Donor 5+ Year Member

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    Jun 20, 2010
    Denver, CO
    Index of Rotation Reviews (UPDATED AS OF 9/4/16)

    Advocate Christ
    Baylor College of Medicine
    Baylor College of Medicine (#2) (NEW!)
    Baylor Scott & White
    Baystate Medical Center
    Boston Medical Center
    Carolinas Medical Center
    Christus Spohn/Texas A&M
    Cook County (#1)
    Cook County (#2)
    Cook County (#3)
    Cook County (#4)
    Dartmouth-Hitchcock
    Denver Health/U of Colorado (#1)
    Denver Health/U of Colorado (#2)
    Denver Health/U of Colorado (#3)
    East Carolina University/Vidant
    Hennepin County
    Henry Ford
    Highland/Alameda County
    Indiana University
    Jacobi/Montefiore - Albert Einstein
    Maimonides Medical Center
    Maine Medical Center
    Maricopa County
    MetroHealth/Cleveland Clinic
    Mount Sinai St. Lukes Roosevelt
    Newark Beth Israel
    NYU Bellevue
    New York Presbyterian
    LAC+USC (#1)
    LAC + USC (#2)
    LSU New Orleans (NEW!)
    Ohio State University
    Orlando Health
    Palmetto Health
    SUNY Downstate/Kings County
    Temple University (NEW!)
    University of Alabama (NEW!)
    UCLA-Harbor
    University of Massachusetts
    University of Missouri/Truman Medical Center
    University of Nevada Las Vegas (#1)
    University of Nevada Las Vegas (#2)
    University of Texas in Austin (#1)
    University of Texas in Austin (#2)
    University of Texas in Austin (#3)
    University of Wisconsin
    Virginia Commonwealth University
    Western Michigan University
    West Virginia University (NEW!)
    Yale University
    ___________________

    @Cinematographer's Comment: Apologies for the delay in updating this thread. Will try to be better about updating it once weekly/biweekly, depending on the number of reviews submitted. For those of you only now tuning into this thread and sub forum, know that these reviews are posted anonymously, so feel free to use the Google Form to comment on your away rotation experience while your memory of it is still fresh.
     
    Jabbed and TheOther like this.
  45. Any applicants that were waiting to post reviews willing to give us Christmas break reading material? Would be appreciated
     
    LostinLift and surely like this.
  46. EMhopeful2017

    EMhopeful2017

    24
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    Apr 28, 2016
    Are we going to get any new posts for the new group next year?
     
  47. Cinematographer

    Cinematographer More chill in real life Gold Donor 5+ Year Member

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    Jun 20, 2010
    Denver, CO
    Haven't gotten any recent submissions. Otherwise I would post them
     
  48. LostinLift

    LostinLift 2+ Year Member

    799
    644
    Jan 24, 2013
    Perhaps we can suggest that ROL submissions include away rotations experiences? For us rising 4th years it could really shed some light before we apply.
     
  49. EMhopeful2017

    EMhopeful2017

    24
    17
    Apr 28, 2016
    Oh, I submitted one a couple of weeks ago. Guess it didn't go through.
     
  50. SpacemanSpifff

    SpacemanSpifff 5+ Year Member

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    May 8, 2012
    @Cinematographer has done a lot to carry this thread, and since I have nothing but positive things to say, I don't feel the need to post this anonymously.

    Program:
    University of Cincinnati
    Rotation: EM Sub-I
    SLOE experience: sent in a timely manner

    Student Involvement/responsibilities: students on this rotation acted as interns, writing notes, entering orders, calling consults, and doing procedures (unless they were emergent) for our own patients. We were expected to concoct plans for each patient, dispo them, and relate all that information to the patient/nursing staff. During my time at Cinci I performed 2 LP's, several peripheral nerve blocks, did US exams (FAST, RUQ, TTE, soft tissue), placed a central line, several I/D's, sutured a number of wounds, and assisted in fracture reductions as well as a few revision amputations. Some of my student colleagues also performed joint aspiration, IV placements, thoras and paras. It was attending-dependent, but you were given a pretty long leash compared to my home EM rotation - some students carried up to 4 patients at a time. The above pertains mainly to non-A pod shifts, as A pod residents also cover the shock and resuscitation unit (SRU). During these shifts you can see patients primarily, but usually fewer, since the attending will need to write notes for each of them and will likely be busy with whatever is going down in the SRU. These shifts were more about seeing how the SRU runs, helping the PGY3 in any aspect you could (assisting in the traumas, getting people off backboards, etc) - but I still got some good hands on involvement.
    Other rotation requirements - we took the SAEM exam (not so bad compared to the shelf), tweeted a pearl we learned for each day we worked clinically, and presented a clinical case at the end of the 4 weeks in teams of 2 - 3.

    Shifts: Fifteen shifts (including the extras, below), most 12 hours, evenly split between days, evenings and nights. Each pod has its own unique flavor. A pod (see above) was always a blast, super busy, and saw a lot of trauma and sick folks. B pod is a little slower, as its the intern pod. I present to a PGY4. These shifts I spent a lot of time talking to and learning from the interns, as well as trying to bum procedures off them, which usually they were happy to let me do. C pod were my favorite shifts - you, a PGY2, and an attending are in a 10-12 bed pod. The PGY2 is responsible for airways in the SRU and will frequently get called away for traumas etc., so they love it when you take patients off their hands. Got great teaching back there. I pod is a fast track area where you churn and burn: you only need to write quick notes (if the attending has you write them at all), otherwise you are free to do all the I/D's and suturing your heart desires. I pod shifts are 7 hours, IIRC.
    Extras - one US shift with a sonographer (who has worked in the dept. for a long time and is an absolute gem), doing scans the whole shift, placing US-guided IV's etc. One helicopter shift, when you can buddy fly with a PGY3 - this night not be available during all away months. At least one teaching shift with a PGY2 or 3 who has no responsibilities other than teaching the student for the shift. S/he cherry picks interesting or bread and butter cases from anywhere in the department - very high yield and low stress.

    Didactics: med students had dedicating 2hr teaching sessions once weekly with the clerkship director, covering basic EM topics - ECG's, sepsis, airway management, ACLS etc. Each didactic session had some component of simulation and these ran very smoothly. We attended grand rounds weekly, as well as morning report-type teachings most days when working a shift. Overall the teaching was solid. The residents' presentations were my favorite. There was a lot of emphasis placed on the entertainment value, which helped their teaching points stick in my head.

    Faculty/Residents: amazing. Like every department, there was at least one person I didn't love, but overall the program is stocked with dedicated teachers and friendly residents. The clerkship director, Dr. Paulsen, was incredibly organized, sending out weekly emails with reminders for conferences, teaching pearls, and literature from topics covered in previous didactic sessions. She was/has been an excellent resource in the application process. The attendings were fun to work with, excited to teach, and gave specific, useful feedback (the majority of the time). You have at least one shift with a member of the residency leadership team, all of whom collectively author the SLOE. The residents were very enthusiastic about EM: more than once I was pulled into a room by a resident I was not working with, because they thought there was something to be learned from their patient or they had a procedure that they wanted me to see/do. They made the rotation for me.
    You get paired with a faculty mentor and a near-peer resident mentor (PGY4), both of whom will meet with you during the rotation. I used these individuals for guidance regarding the application/interview process and found them to be very helpful.

    Evaluation: the majority of our grade was based on clinical evals (60%, I think), with smaller bits made up by the exam, presentation and participation during didactics. I got feedback after every shift but one. I was never told to "read more", but given actually useful feedback. All students met with the clerkship director for midclerkship feedback - you went over areas of strength and set goals for improvement for the last two weeks.

    Logistics: scrubs are available, but I would recommend bringing your own as well. Students were expected to wear white coats. Have a set of decent business casual clothes for the presentation. Check out rotatingroom for housing, several students had spots within walking distance of the hospital.

    The city: Cinci is not an amazing locale, but I was surprised by the amount of microbreweries and hole in the wall restaurants. Went to the zoo, a Reds game, and out in Over The Rhine. Had a good time in my free time for sure.

    Overall: amazing rotation. Fun, educational, and career-affirming. Very hands on, great teaching and folks who all love EM. Dr. Paulsen makes sure students get access to what they want, and provides advising to all students, even after leaving the rotation. If you're interested in academics this is a good place to get a strong SLOE. Just about every program I interviewed at had someone on faculty from Cinci. Of note, away students are NOT interviewed during the rotation, but Cinci does pay for your hotel (the swankiest place I stayed all year) when you come back, and it was a very relaxed interview. Bottom line: I would highly recommend this rotation, it was outstanding.
     
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