Where did you have a *great* student EM rotation?

Discussion in 'Emergency Medicine' started by IlianaSedai, Apr 9, 2004.

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  1. westdescartes

    westdescartes 2+ Year Member

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    Has anyone heard anything about the UCSF/SFGH AI?
     
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  3. randomness2323

    randomness2323

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    Stay away from JPS if you are a DO student. They will not give you an interview even if you do well in the rotation. The program is becoming more and more like UT Austin and they only want students with high stats and they are really biased against DO students (I've seen it and experienced it first hand). It's kind of a blow to TCOM students since this is considered their unofficial home institution and starting class of this program were mostly TCOM students. Now it seems like the program is trying to distance itself from TCOM. The funny thing is in the ROL thread most of these students are ranking them really low.
     
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  4. bananasinpijamas

    bananasinpijamas

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    I entered two evaluations for subIs in CA programs on anonymous google form back in October but they were never posted :/
     
  5. EMhopeful2017

    EMhopeful2017

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    I also submitted one in October that was never posted.
     
  6. Spindrift11B4

    Spindrift11B4 7+ Year Member

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    13 current DO's out of 36 total residents seems like a bit of a contradiction to what you are saying. Any specifics to back up your opinion?
     
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  7. EMhopeful2017

    EMhopeful2017

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    Easy, they have a brand new program director.
     
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  8. Cinematographer

    Cinematographer More chill in real life Gold Donor 5+ Year Member

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    I'll update the thread tomorrow with the above mentioned reviews.

    #residency
     
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  9. EazyE1907

    EazyE1907 2+ Year Member

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    Has anyone done/heard anything about the EM rotation at Genesys in Grand blanc Michigan. Thanks!
     
  10. Spindrift11B4

    Spindrift11B4 7+ Year Member

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    Good to know, thanks for the info. I'm wondering what this supposed DO bias is based on though. I mean is it simply because you did not receive an interview after rotating there (which sucks, no doubt), or is it something much deeper in how you were treated while there?
     
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  11. randomness2323

    randomness2323

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    I wouldn't say the treatment was bad but I feel feedback that I received was not honest. I constantly asked how I can improve throughout my rotation, didn't feel that anyone was interested in my development. I did have one attending knit picking things I did wrong, but I felt like he was looking for me to mess up on something. I had completely opposite, positive, supportive experience everywhere else I rotated and based on my interviews I can tell you I don't have any red flags. So the whole process with them was kind of confusing.
     
  12. rkmoto121

    rkmoto121 5+ Year Member

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    Did you receive a good SLOE/grade? It does seem pretty weird that a program would give a good SLOE and no interview. I'm not saying it's you since somebody in the other thread mentioned they knew of two MD students that this happened to also.


    Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
     
  13. EMhopeful2017

    EMhopeful2017

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    .
     
  14. SpacemanSpifff

    SpacemanSpifff 2+ Year Member

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    @Cinematographer has a lot going on, give the dude a break.
     
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  15. Cinematographer

    Cinematographer More chill in real life Gold Donor 5+ Year Member

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    Posted anonymously via Google Forms

    Program: Stanford
    Rotation: EM Sub-I
    SLOE Experience: Other

    Didactics: amazing. Best out of 3 places I rotated at. Very well organized. Some multi-disciplinary talks with trauma and ICU attendings, some lectures by senior residents and some by attendings.

    Other teaching: we have our own student lectures at Stanford campus, excellent. One day of suturing, one day of ultrasound, and a full morning of simulations!

    Valley Medical Center: Amazing place, large volume of patients, very efficient ED, great relationship with surgery and other services. I loved working there. 1 to 1 with faculty. Stanford residents rotate through here only as R2 and after that. This is the community hospital for Stanford residents, they also go to Kaiser Santa Clara, but their main site is the Stanford hospital in Palo Alto. Difficult to really know what it's like up in the main ED at Stanford, but rotators seemed to really enjoy the rotation, except for not having a large volume of patients. I got to do all types of procedures, some complex lacerations, LPs, paracentesis, I&Ds.

    Applications directly through Stanford by mail, no VSAS affiliation
    SLOE with slight delay, but should not be an issue if it is an early rotation
     
  16. Cinematographer

    Cinematographer More chill in real life Gold Donor 5+ Year Member

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    Posted anonymously via Google Forms

    Program: Highland
    Rotation: EM Sub-I
    SLOE Experience: Sent in timely manner

    Didactics: pretty good, 5 hours/week. Lectures by residents. Lots of small groups with faculty to cover different topics in a dialogue-like setting

    Residents: super fun bunch of people, seem to really like each other and they seem very happy. Everyone from very good medical schools, can tell Highland was their #1 choice.

    Shifts: 16 8-hr shifts, 1 Ambulance ride along, lectures for med students on weekly basis. We pick up whichever patients we want and present to attending or senior resident. Students are treated as a very important part of the team.

    Attendings: extremely nice group of people. Everyone here goes by first name. They love Highland and they are excellent at teaching.

    Responsibilities: pretty standard, but we can't enter/initiate any orders. First shift is a nursing shift where we practice starting lines and doing blood-draws and EKGs.

    Logistics: ED divided into two parts, one with highest acuity and where trauma bays are located. The other side with higher turn around, less acuity, and where gyn rooms and ophtho rooms are.

    Highland is a great place to rotate. Great county hospital, very well respected by the community.
     
  17. Cinematographer

    Cinematographer More chill in real life Gold Donor 5+ Year Member

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    Posted anonymously via Google Forms

    Program: Henry Ford
    Rotation: EM Sub-I
    SLOE Experience: Sent in timely manner

    Had a GREAT experience at Henry Ford. During this rotation you work 15 9 hours shifts (usually 8.5 hours or so) plus 1 2-3 hour long US shift. Most of your shifts are on the highest acuity Category 1 area of the department, but you do have several shifts in the other areas. All of your night shifts are bunched together. Students work 1 on 1 with a resident and present all of their patients to the attendings.

    The residents that I worked with here were all very friendly and enjoyed having a medical student with them. I feel as though I got more useful feedback on this rotation from the residents than I got on any other rotation that I've had to date. You see a lot of sick patients at this hospital and I came away from this experience having learned a ton. The apartments just behind the hospital can be rented by visited students for only ~$300 for the month! I highly recommend rotating at Henry Ford without any reservations.
     
  18. Cinematographer

    Cinematographer More chill in real life Gold Donor 5+ Year Member

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    Posted anonymously via Google Forms

    Program: University of New Mexico
    Rotation: EM Sub-I
    SLOE Experience: Sent in timely manner

    Didactics: Student lectures on Monday and Wednesday mornings, usually only 2-3 hours. Fantastic lectures, though. The attendings that do them put a lot of effort into making sure we are learning stuff that is applicable to our level of training. Conference on Wednesday afternoons, not required but 'recommended'. Conference was nothing ground-breaking. Sim labs were cool.

    Faculty/Residents: The course director was nice, easy to talk to. I only really saw her two times over the course of the rotation. She did set aside some time to sit down with us at the end of the rotation to get feedback/advise us. I really enjoyed the faculty here. They treated us like interns and expected us to be completely responsible for our patients. You don't ever present to the residents. You pick up a patient, go see them/create your plan and then present to the attending and tell them what orders you want. You write your own notes and are responsible for admits/consults/discharges. You truly work as another intern. The only issue I had with the faculty here is it was extremely hard to get them to submit evaluations after shifts. I probably sent out around 25 evaluation requests and only got back like 11-12 by the end of the rotation, and the course director told me that I had more than average. Additionally, a lot of the evaluations I got back had no comments that could be put in my SLOE, only 3s/4s/5s, so the evals weren't tremendously helpful. The residents were just there. There wasn't much interaction with them due to you not ever presenting to them, they were there to help if we needed an order put in and the attending was MIA, though.

    Shifts: 14 8 hour shifts plus an additional educational activity. You got to choose from EMS, ultrasound, CC, toxicology, etc. for your educational activity. A lot of us did ultrasound because some of the others never responded to emails. NO TEST AT THE END OF THE ROTATION. So you didn't have to study at all when you weren't on shift, left a lot of free time.

    Logistics: Application through VSAS. You have to submit an essay as to why you want to rotate there, put effort into it because it's how they pick their rotators. I stayed on a place I found on rotating room. I was the only one who did this, don't know how other people found places.

    Evaluation: I think it was a departmental SLOE. You seen online evaluations after each shifts to attendings/upper level attendings. You don't have to send them to everyone so you can pick or choose, but all of the attendings were great so I sent them to everyone. Only issue was them not filling them out. I never saw my SLOE, but they sent me an evaluation after the rotation that said I honored, again, no other real comments. I literally have no idea what my SLOE says.

    Overall: I enjoyed my time here. The attendings are all fantastic, the PD is one of my favorite ones I've met, and the city is a great place to be. There is fantastic biking/hiking right next to the city and the city is full of fantastic food. The program definitely attracts a certain type of outdoorsy person as this was evident in the faculty, residents, and rotators. The only thing I would improve is the issue with getting those online evaluations filled out.
     
  19. Cinematographer

    Cinematographer More chill in real life Gold Donor 5+ Year Member

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    Posted anonymously via Google Forms

    Program: University of Illinois-Peoria
    Rotation: EM Sub-I
    SLOE Experience: Sent in timely manner

    Didactics were wonderful, learned a lot during this experience. Faculty were hit or miss as far as who liked working with students. Not much interaction with the residents, but they seem happy and work very hard. You work directly with an attending picking up patients, so sometimes you have to "fight" with the residents to pick up patients. Did not get many procedures. About 15 shifts for the month, including an EMS ride along shift and overnight shifts (3 nights in a row). SAEM exam is 40% of grade at the end. Epic is the EMR. It can be hard to find housing, some of the home students helped out of town find housing.
     
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  20. Cinematographer

    Cinematographer More chill in real life Gold Donor 5+ Year Member

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    Posted anonymously via Google Forms

    Program: University of Iowa
    Rotation: EM Sub-I
    SLOE Experience: Sent in timely manner

    Didactics were standard. Most of the faculty were great. You are assigned one attending that you will work with more than others in case you need an additional SLOE. Residents are super friendly and happy. You work mostly with a senior resident or attending. I was told procedures are rarely given to students, but I would have gotten a couple intubations if I had had anesthesia prior to the rotation. I did get to attempt a shoulder reduction. If they trust you and you ask, I think you could get a good number of procedures in. Around 15 shifts for the month, including overnights, 3 nights in a row. Consultants in at UI are awesome and are easy to work with. They have great Ophtho and Ortho programs and the residents on those services often let the ED rotators help with procedures and exams. Housing was easy to find on Rotating Room at a reasonable price.
     
  21. Cinematographer

    Cinematographer More chill in real life Gold Donor 5+ Year Member

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    Posted anonymously via Google Forms

    Program: University of Florida Gainesville
    Rotation: EM Clerkship
    SLOE Experience: Sent in timely manner

    My EM rotation at U of F in Gainesville was fantastic. You did 13 shifts in the ED and 1 EMS shift. The ED shifts included 2-3 fast track shifts, 1-3 PEM shifts and 2-3 night shifts. They work in the pod system. You are with an upper level, an intern and an attending for each shift. You always ended up presenting to the attending on shift. All of the attendings were great. I saw all the patients on my own and had quite a bit of freesdom. You get a fair amount of procedures (suturing, I&Ds, intubations, pelvics mostly). Didactic were once a week in the morning and yoy did a couple hour sim lab just with med students after the didactics. The faculty was fun and interactive in these sim labs. You did a day of wilderness med where you went to a local park and practiced splints and learned about tourniquets, snake bites and other random things. You take an SAEM exam for the final. Overall it was a great rotation with a positive SLOE.
     
  22. Cinematographer

    Cinematographer More chill in real life Gold Donor 5+ Year Member

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    Posted anonymously via Google Forms

    Program: Georgetown
    Rotation: EM Sub-I
    SLOE Experience: Sent in timely manner

    Faculty was very variable, feedback not very useful -- state that you are doing well but don't provide useful constructive criticism and grades don't match up with feedback. time split half at Georgetown half at Washington hospital center (WHC) even though most resident time is spent at WHC -- may end up with multiple shifts in fast track -- grading was almost arbitrary -- an average score for differentials when a chief complaint is toe pain with a history of a stubbed toe

    residents overall nice and helpful, happy bunch. they had a ridiculous amount of students rotating when I was there, total of ~23-26 students, almost everyone on sub-I's minus one student, with ~17 away rotators. organization was fine but i think they bit off more than they could chew

    SLOE prepared and ready before ERAS sent out.
     
  23. Cinematographer

    Cinematographer More chill in real life Gold Donor 5+ Year Member

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    Posted anonymously via Google Forms

    Program: Highland
    Rotation: EM Sub-I
    SLOE Experience: Sent considerably late

    The faculty seemed great, but I got a weird vibe from the residents. Most did not seem to care much about my existence as an away rotator. I had a decent amount of responsibility, though, so I definitely got a good educational experience. But I just felt out of place and I could definitely see that having a negative impact on my SLOE.
     
  24. Cinematographer

    Cinematographer More chill in real life Gold Donor 5+ Year Member

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    Posted anonymously via Google Forms

    Program: Denver Health/University of Colorado
    Rotation: EM Sub-I
    SLOE Experience: Sent in a timely manner

    Shifts: 18 total eight hour shifts pretty evenly split between day/swing/night; although the majority of your shifts are in the Denver Health ED, you also spend some time in the University of Colorado ED, and the Denver Health Pediatric ED

    Didactics: separate case based resident run didactics for Sub-Is once a week (they did a nice job overall, all the residents who participated were excited to teach), M&M with the residents and optional resident lectures. M&M was great because some of the awesome faculty members use them as an opportunity to drop pearls.

    Procedures: lots to go around, you get an appropriate amount of autonomy for your skill level and senior residents make teaching Sub-Is procedures a priority.

    Student Involvement: as much autonomy as you can handle: pick up patients, pend orders, present them to Senior resident, write notes, update and eventually dispo patients. It's best to think of yourself as the primary provider and advocate for your patients and act accordingly.

    Evaluation: Majority of your grade is based on clinical evals, smaller percentage comes from multiple choice exam and student debate. Work hard, advocate for your patients, interact well with others and demonstrate that you have solid medical knowledge and you will be graded accordingly.

    Overall: Great rotation, probably the most rewarding rotation of medical school for me. I learned a lot about who I am and what I want from a residency program.
     
  25. Cinematographer

    Cinematographer More chill in real life Gold Donor 5+ Year Member

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    Posted anonymously via Google Forms

    Program: Mt. Sinai
    Rotation: EM Sub-I
    SLOE Experience: Sent in a timely manner

    LOVED this program. You have 14 shifts per month and they are all 12 hour shifts. They have didactics once a week and then weekly student meetings. We did sim and went through different cases each week. You do 2 weeks at Elmhurst which is the county/community hospital and 2 weeks at Sinai which is the tertiary care/university hospital. ELMHURST-this place is a gem. It has all the craziness of county. You get a large immigrant population and insane diversity. They like to market that the zipcode elmhurst is in is the most diverse zipcode in the nation. The good thing is that the you kind of escape the entitled homeless/drug seeking population that comes with a county population because most of the patients are grateful immigrants who just don't have insurance. Also these cultures don't really go to the doctor unless they are feeling like death-so when you see some of these patients they have some real **** going on. They are short-staffed on nursing and techs so sometimes you have to draw labs and take your patients to imaging-it is a little annoying. The attendings here let you do whatever! I had such autonomy not only in procedures but also in my management. After you present you just tell them what you want to order and they will do it. If they disagree or think you should do something else, they will have a discussion with you-so there is a good bit of teaching. I really felt like I grew here. Sinai is also as equal of a ****-show. there are hallway beds basically right next to each other at both places. It gets so full that sometimes it is hard to navigate yourself. I kind of like the chaos.

    You dont get to see a lot of trauma at sinai, but you do see some at elmhurst. I never saw anything crazy though-gsw, stab wounds (that you will prob see at jaconi or downstate). Sinai has more critically ill, septic, stroke, cardiac patients in their acute rooms versus penetrating and blunt trauma. I feel you do get a good comfort level with critically sick patients. Volume is awesome, diversity is awesome. You get some rich folk, some run of the mill homeless/drug seeking patients, but also you tap into some of harlem so you get a larger AA population then you do at elmhurst. The bad thing is that the rich people think they don't need a workup and their primary doctor should be called right away and the harlem population has this distrust of doctors-it does make you work on your communication skills-i personally liked it. The attendings at sinai are great, they take the time to really teach you. this place is very heavy on evidence based medicine, another thing i liked. You have some shifts in the geriatric ED and some in the peds ED as well. the PD sets up a meeting to meet all the rotators-this guy is AMAZING. Kosh is just the most amazing dude ever, and the chair (who is going to step down soon) jagoda is a genius. LOVE LOVE LOVE.
     
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  26. Cinematographer

    Cinematographer More chill in real life Gold Donor 5+ Year Member

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    There are still more. Will post over the weekend.
     
  27. Jabbed

    Jabbed 2+ Year Member

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  28. PercutaneousKnowledge

    PercutaneousKnowledge 2+ Year Member

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    Can someone tell me their experiences about their ER auditions /rotations at these hospitals:

    Henry Ford Macomb
    McLaren Macomb
    McLaren Oakland
    St. John Providence
    Botsford
    St. Mary Mercy Hospital
    Garden City Hospital
    DMC Huron Valley Sinai

    Thank you
     
  29. KinesiologyNerd

    KinesiologyNerd 2+ Year Member

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  30. Gomertose

    Gomertose

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    If the dates at an away don't line up with your institution, what are you supposed to do? Apparently I can burn an entire vacation month, but that seems kinda not ideal during prime time
     
  31. Emapplicant 2017

    Emapplicant 2017

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    You either bite the bullet and burn a month, or find another elective that matches your schedule. If you go with it, you can consider using that free time to study for step 2. You can also consider trying to do some 2 week electives at home or away. You might not get a SLOE out of them but it might get your foot in the door for an interview?

    I did an away that was off from my home schedule by about a week and I was able to contact the attending for my elective and he had no problem with me bouncing early to do my away.
     
  32. alpinism

    alpinism Give Em' the Jet Fuel 5+ Year Member

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    In addition to the above you can also try to fill the time with an online course or research if possible.
     
  33. Thought Crime Spree

    Thought Crime Spree 2+ Year Member

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    This sounds like sour grapes about not getting an invite. It's not fair to disparage a program as DO biased without any evidence of such. If they go a couple cycles without matching any then maybe I'd believe you.

    As for UT Austin, we have a ton of DO's in our program, our two chiefs are DO's, I'm a DO, we are DO friendly.
     
  34. MichiganLover

    MichiganLover

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    GARDEN CITY PD DOES NOT WRITE SLOEs. I want you to know that. Great guy though.
     
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  35. DynamiteDunes

    DynamiteDunes

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    This account is anonymous anyway so here are a couple more to add:

    Northwestern AI:

    Rotation Structure: 14 8hr shifts with weekly 2hr student only lectures, a procedure session in the sim center, a half day of ACLS style codes in sim center, and Wednesday morning resident conferences that were kind of optional. Final week includes an observed sim center exam with three standardized patients(all high acuity). As a rotator they will try to give you a shift with all the APDs, the PD, the CMO of the hospital(who still works shifts in the ED) and the clerkship director. Program treats you as one of their own after this experience including counseling on other programs to apply to and critique of your interview answers during your interview.


    Comments: Great rotation and a fantastic learning experience. I'd say the biggest strengths are how well organized the experience is and how important the program leadership views the process of getting to know you as a person and as a clinician. I also thought the level of responsibility given was above and beyond what I expected. Procedures are often up for grabs(including intubations), you are expected to call all consults and work with the consultants(they understand this expectation and are very accommodating) and there is ample time and resources set aside for you to be able to see patients at the level of an intern and present to attendings. The patient population is a lot more underserved than expected given the location of the hospital. Evaluation system is great and feedback is a important expectation for attendings from department leadership. There is a procedure log and "patient followup logs", but these are very doable and should not be intimidating. Overall I had a great experience here and I would highly recommend it.

    Metrohealth/Cleveland Clinic AI:

    Rotation Structure: 12 10hr shifts plus an EMS shift and LifeFlight shift. Weekly 1/2 day didactics in addition to a procedure lab, EKG workshop and oral boards style session(informal). There is also a short 6-8 minute presentation about a topic in EM given during resident conference on the last week by each rotator.


    Comments: Great student rotation at a county program with a lot of resources due to close affiliations with the Cleveland Clinic and Case Western medical school. Ability to fly as a student rotator was unique and a cool experience. Attendings and residents were great to students and dedicated a good deal of their time to teaching. One negative I will say is to make sure to be aggressive about seeking written feedback from everyone you work with as there doesn't seem to a be a strong top down push to make sure student feedback is returned in a timely manner. Overall, fantastic clinical training, high acuity and great group of residents. Also, loved Cleveland!
     
  36. EMfuture2017

    EMfuture2017

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    McClaren Oakland will leave you feeling a little empty inside. I am from a home base hospital with average resources. But when they say they have limited resources...they mean it. Paper charts and MRI available only certain hours on certain days of the week.
     
  37. Nado11

    Nado11 5+ Year Member

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    Not even close to reality on this one. There is no bias against DOs at all, we had numerous DOs at each interview day this year. If we (residents) and faculty feel an applicant is a good fit, they'll get an interview regardless of the letters after their name.

    Source: I'm a JPS resident
     
  38. TooMuchResearch

    TooMuchResearch i'm goin' to Kathmandu... Lifetime Donor 7+ Year Member

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    This is how MRI access works many places. They can get admitted or transferred.
     
    shoal007 likes this.
  39. MelMcT2009

    MelMcT2009

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    Has anyone rotated at UTSW in Texas?
     
  40. triplehog22

    triplehog22 2+ Year Member

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    Anyone rotate at Duke?
     
  41. RockFlag&Eagle

    RockFlag&Eagle

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    I would encourage everyone to consider rotating at UT Memphis, Penn, and Cooper. I had great months at each one and would be happy to answer PM'd questions...I'll make the time to actually post a proper review at some point. Each offered a unique and legitimately fun experience.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2017
    westdescartes likes this.

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