Quick question... I am trying to designate programs for interview applications. Are there any programs out there notorious for accepting residents from interviews without them doing a clerkship or visiting there? Thanks!
Where to interview for residency (without visiting program)
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I don't think Kingwood or West Houston in Texas have clerkships and go solely off of the interview. I'm sure there are more. Any of the new programs for this year obviously wouldn't have had externs and will go based just off of interviews or short visits.
Just curious, are you just looking for a few programs to add to your interview list to expand your chances?
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dyk343
I am currently deciding which random places to interview at and how to squeeze in a few more visits. With the given situation we would be crazy not to interview at as many programs as we can.
Although, I don't think the shortage will be as bad as last year.
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From all the numbers I see, I agree with Ankle-Breaker from an overall perspective anyways. Class of 2014 should have less eligible graduates than 2013, but you still have to consider there will be an additional 45 re-applicants from class of 2013 entering the match.
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dyk343
We all got that email from Dr Wolf about 2 months ago saying there were as many residency slots available as there were students in the class of 2014.
Yes some programs have closed and those have been talked about on SDN because its human nature to concentrate on the negative side of things. But what has not been mentioned is that other programs have opened and many programs have expanded the number of students they take.
This is all before boards part II which typically eliminates 5-10% of applicants.
To me the math says the shortage will be less than last year. Unless anyone has confirmed information that says otherwise.
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I guess I don't know what email you are talking about?
But that means they Genesis'd like 35ish spots in like 1 month. (Two months ago is august, one month before that is July, or beginning of programs).
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dyk343
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Que MaxillofacialMN in 3....2....1.....
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As of a few months ago there were 577 students in the class of 2014 and 577 "active" residency positions. Some "active" positions end up not being available, and historically a similar % of students fail boards part II. That obviously didn't happen last year so we'll have ~50 kids from 2013 re-enter the match. That is the only reason it could be "worse" this year. Looking at the class of 2014 in a vacuum, it can't be as bad as last year (unless the 99% pass rate is becoming the norm). Unfortunately the 2013 grads exist and you can't just look at the class of 2014. More spots have been added than have closed. Also, 2 of the programs I've been to will be taking an additional resident starting this year. I'm sure they aren't the only ones. Everything I've seen would suggest the number of new spots has ever so slightly outpaced the spots that have closed. I don't think our class will have as many kids who don't get positions as the class of 2013, but it's now seemingly harder to predict with the possibility of every student passing boards again.
It's not surprising that Scholl would be telling students it will be worse. The "there will be a shortage" line was common from Temple admin/faculty in previous years when there was no shortage but Temple students were not getting programs. Scholl didn't do too hot last year when it came to the match so I'd expect the school to do everything they can to motivate their students.
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I've also been to a program that has said this.
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This is great news! I'm sure programs will continue to be added in the coming months, so even if there is above 90% part 2 pass rate, the shortage won't be incredibly crippling.
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Holy smokes. I have no idea that the average is, but this seems like a ton.
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Sounds like a good problem to me. Applying broadly to 30 programs means you'll know little to nothing about them and be at a huge disadvantage compared to other students who have externed or researched those programs thoroughly, and you're almost wasting your time and creating unneccessary stress in an already extremely stressful period.
Pick a group of programs that you would be happy working at for three years. Research the heck out of them, and prepare for the interview based on what you've learned about each.
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That's my issue. I think you also have to ask yourself the question, is the program that I can get by just showing up for an interview one that I really want to go to? And I'm excluding places like West Houston and Kingwood and UCincy who don't take externs. As well as a place like Swedish where rankings are based almost entirely off of the interview.
I will have spent a month at 7 programs before CRIP. Almost all are considered big name or high powered or well known or whatever you want to call them. All of the students I've rotated with are good. These are places that rarely if ever scramble. I personally don't think kids who only visited for a couple days have a shot at any of these, let alone someone who just shows up to interview. Heck, there's a good chance I don't get a call back interview from some of these places and I've received very good feedback/evals from all of them so far. Basically, I want to go to a competitive program. The type of program that virtually 10 times out of 10 has plenty of good externs to choose from and doesn't have to take a flyer on some kid who just interviewed. So personally, I'm having trouble justifying (or talking myself into) applying to much more than the 7 places I actually have a shot at. I also think it helps that, so far, I would be happy at any of the programs I've externed. They've all offered great training IMO and the differences are very small details that wouldn't really matter in terms of overall quality of training.
All that being said, I've done my best to designate 18 programs. Mostly due to peer pressure. I can't imagine doing more than 9 or 10 interviews though (I have a feeling I'll do more like 7 or 8). It just seems so inefficient and a big waste of time to interview with a program like Kaiser SF (for example) without having spent a month there....I guess we'll see if I cave again under the pressure again in a month or two.
I, like others on this post, am trying to apply to the recommended 18 programs for interviews. With such a large residency shortage, I would like to help my chances. I would love to attend one of the 6 programs I spent a month with, but I would like to apply to more programs to expand my chances. Any other suggestions would be great!
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I am also trying to designate 18 programs and I figure that if I am going to take the time to interview somewhere I might as well have a shot at getting the program, therefore programs that don't offer externship would be ideal.
Can anyone comment on other residences that do not offer externship months for students?
Can anyone comment on other residences that do not offer externship months for students?
anyone know anything about the program in NSLIJ lenox hill hospital, NYC? long beach memorial hospital?
any feelings about applying to the more intense programs like dekalb and inova without visiting?
feelings on Swedish?
so confused on what to do with this huge shortage of residency positions. any help would be greatly appreciated!!
any feelings about applying to the more intense programs like dekalb and inova without visiting?
feelings on Swedish?
so confused on what to do with this huge shortage of residency positions. any help would be greatly appreciated!!
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What is considered a "competitive" GPA for (1) top residencies and (2) regular residencies? What is typically the minimum GPA required to obtain any residency?
thanks for all of your continued help ankle breaker! ive picked my 18, some are probably a shot in the dark with chances of landing an interview without a visit, but it can't hurt trying! i do sincerely appreciate all of your advice during the past week!
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One thing you are probably aware of, ftdr, but it seems like many programs have 3.0 GPA cutoff.
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I believe all of Swedish's residents (6 total) did a month at Swedish. But the month doesn't matter...in theory.
One thing people don't realize is that even programs who base rankings on interviews don't just grant everyone an interview. Clerks who they didn't hate will get priority over the random kid that designates them. Plenty of people will not get interviews at a program like Swedish.
I wouldn't want to apply to strong programs I'd never visited without a 3.5+ GPA. That number is completely arbitrary, but I feel like you need something on paper to stand out if you didn't clerk at a good program. One of the first thing's they will see that will mean something to them will be GPA/Rank. Maybe it's just me and maybe that was terrible advice. Its just that I don't even feel comfortable applying to programs I haven't been to with just over a 3.7. But then, of course, GPA immediately goes out the window once you have the interview and are competing against kids that the program liked after working with for 30 days. Man, the more I say things like that out loud the more insane I feel like it is to be designating 18 programs...
One thing people don't realize is that even programs who base rankings on interviews don't just grant everyone an interview. Clerks who they didn't hate will get priority over the random kid that designates them. Plenty of people will not get interviews at a program like Swedish.
I wouldn't want to apply to strong programs I'd never visited without a 3.5+ GPA. That number is completely arbitrary, but I feel like you need something on paper to stand out if you didn't clerk at a good program. One of the first thing's they will see that will mean something to them will be GPA/Rank. Maybe it's just me and maybe that was terrible advice. Its just that I don't even feel comfortable applying to programs I haven't been to with just over a 3.7. But then, of course, GPA immediately goes out the window once you have the interview and are competing against kids that the program liked after working with for 30 days. Man, the more I say things like that out loud the more insane I feel like it is to be designating 18 programs...
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deleted291400
Has anyone been to Cleveland clinic/Kaiser? I believe they don't do crip interviews and was wondering if that gives externs more of an edge or not. Also if anyone has any extra tips or info about that program it would be helpful too.
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It would be very interesting to see how many of the people applying to these high number of programs and where they end up in their rankings (if at all). And how many people needed to rank 17 programs to match. I think increasing the number of interviews increases one's chances of matching, to a point. But unless you are special in some way, if you don't visit a program and don't nail the interview, there's a good chance you'll be just another face in the crowd. Which creates the useless stress of yet another interview.
This is just my opinion, and maybe other people are wired differently. I know I would be absolute toast after 8-10 interviews. After 18? Nothing but useless dribble wouod be coming out of my mouth. Which I guess wouldn't be much different than usual....but I think you get my point.
This is just my opinion, and maybe other people are wired differently. I know I would be absolute toast after 8-10 interviews. After 18? Nothing but useless dribble wouod be coming out of my mouth. Which I guess wouldn't be much different than usual....but I think you get my point.
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I completely agree with g squared's statement above. I think that it's ok to go ahead and apply to 18 residency programs for an interview- however, I feel that only programs that do not offer clerkships or those located in a region that you can readily visit a few times prior to CRIP are worth actually accepting the interview. If a residency program does not know you personally, ie you have not done a month there or at least visited a few times, that program would be taking a pretty heavy gamble in ranking you. It seems that it would be more of an incentive for the program to enter the scramble, especially when the pool is proposed to be fairly high. This would optimize the program's selectivity. This is my opinion, and I suppose that I can only truly speak for my own program. I do know that our program would be more likely to scramble if it came to that than to select a candidate who interview with us but who we knew no better than the scramble candidates.
My overall point is, it is not always the best idea to accept the highest number of interviews! First off, interviews are draining. You want to optimize your performance at the programs that you have visited and I feel that any additional interview is not only creating unneeded additional stress, but also that it can deleteriously affect your overall performance. Again, the only exception I would make here is for programs that do not offer clerkships, those that you will have the oppurtunity to visit and become better known to prior to rankings, and those that gear rankings primarily off of academic performance (pending that you are a strong candidate).
Hope this helps... and take my and all others advice with a grain of salt ALWAYS- do what makes sense to you!
PS (Both several of my friends and myself didn't listen to one piece of advice from Scholl and got our first or second program choices-- just something to keep in mind... they can be ridiculous!)
My overall point is, it is not always the best idea to accept the highest number of interviews! First off, interviews are draining. You want to optimize your performance at the programs that you have visited and I feel that any additional interview is not only creating unneeded additional stress, but also that it can deleteriously affect your overall performance. Again, the only exception I would make here is for programs that do not offer clerkships, those that you will have the oppurtunity to visit and become better known to prior to rankings, and those that gear rankings primarily off of academic performance (pending that you are a strong candidate).
Hope this helps... and take my and all others advice with a grain of salt ALWAYS- do what makes sense to you!
PS (Both several of my friends and myself didn't listen to one piece of advice from Scholl and got our first or second program choices-- just something to keep in mind... they can be ridiculous!)
