Which is harder to get into law school or medical school?

[Life Sucks]

It's comparing apples to oranges. I'm sure most of us could get into a tier 1 school. I believe a engineering master or P.h.D might be a good comparison, but that too is comparing apples to oranges.

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[SunsFun]

To whom is this important anyway? To some wanna-be-doctors who need their egos stroked so badly that they crap all over some random unrelated to medicine profession? Let it go.


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[AdrianVeidt]

^^The 2 most prestigious jobs in American society, I can see reason for comparison.

To answer the question: depends on the specific school (some med schools are easier to get into than some law schools, and vice versa). I would predict that Harvard Law is probably more difficult to get into than Harvard Med.

 

[QuinnTheEskimo]

^^The 2 most prestigious jobs in American society, I can see reason for comparison.

To answer the question: depends on the specific school (some med schools are easier to get into than some law schools, and vice versa). I would predict that Harvard Law is probably more difficult to get into than Harvard Med.

omg

No.

I can count 7 people I know from my undergrad who went to Harvard Law. They were smart, hardworking, but not exceptional geniuses or anything.

I don't know anyone who got into Harvard Med.

 

[gumdrops]

It's comparing apples to oranges. I'm sure most of us could get into a tier 1 school. I believe a engineering master or P.h.D might be a good comparison, but that too is comparing apples to oranges.

Graduate school admissions are looking for a completely different skill set and set of motivations from medicine. There are so, so many more law schools than there are than medical schools. In addition, you just have to have finished a bachelor's and taken the LSAT to apply to medical school. It's tougher to apply to medical school than law school in terms of the actual requirements that have to be met. Actual difficulty depends on your strengths though. I know many physicians who claim that they would have bombed a test like the LSAT. Same goes for many smart lawyers I've met who said they couldn't have done well on the MCAT.

 

[QuinnTheEskimo]

Graduate school admissions are looking for a completely different skill set and set of motivations from medicine. There are so, so many more law schools than there are than medical schools. In addition, you just have to have finished a bachelor's and taken the LSAT to apply to medical school. It's tougher to apply to medical school than law school in terms of the actual requirements that have to be met. Actual difficulty depends on your strengths though. I know many physicians who claim that they would have bombed a test like the LSAT. Same goes for many smart lawyers I've met who said they couldn't have done well on the MCAT.

The big difference is that you are pretty much guaranteed to get into law school *somewhere.* There are tons of lower-tier law schools that are happy to take your money as long as you have achieved basic literacy.

As we all know, MD admissions are very different.

 

[AdrianVeidt]

omg

No.

I can count 7 people I know from my undergrad who went to Harvard Law. They were smart, hardworking, but not exceptional geniuses or anything.

I don't know anyone who got into Harvard Med.

Could be quite a few reasons for that. Doctors are not nearly as brass as lawyers, might be a self selection thing. That's just my opinion based on a variety of things, could be wrong.

 

[Aerus]

Could be quite a few reasons for that. Doctors are not nearly as brass as lawyers, might be a self selection thing. That's just my opinion based on a variety of things, could be wrong.

Harvard Law isn't even the number 1 Law School in the country.

Harvard Law also has a 10-15% admission rate. That's far higher than Harvard Med's admission rate. This is assuming that both schools have similar requirements. We know that isn't true, as medical schools have many more requirements and hoops to jump through than Law School.

 

[AdrianVeidt]

^^ Would you prefer your lawyer (in a case that could give you the death penalty) have graduated from Harvard, or would you prefer your doctor (in a surgery that you need in order to live) have graduated from Harvard?

Gotta pick one.

 

[SN12357]

^^ Would you prefer your lawyer (in a case that could give you the death penalty) have graduated from Harvard, or would you prefer your doctor (in a surgery that you need in order to live) have graduated from Harvard?

Gotta pick one.

Neither.

Harvard doesn't produce the best trial lawyers the same way Harvard med doesn't tend to produce the best day to day surgeons. Both roles are yeoman's work in the profession and Harvard looks, for lack of a better term, for thought-leaders.

I wouldn't want an academic anywhere near either my kidneys or my legal case.

.....and it's still true that Harvard Med is harder to get into than Harvard Law.

And before everyone jumps in, of course there are great surgeons who graduate from Harvard. But the best surgeons practice, practice, practice and academic careers aren't the best for getting the volume you need.

 

[gumdrops]

Neither.

Harvard doesn't produce the best trial lawyers the same way Harvard med doesn't tend to produce the best day to day surgeons. Both roles are yeoman's work in the profession and Harvard looks, for lack of a better term, for thought-leaders.

I wouldn't want an academic anywhere near either my kidneys or my legal case.

.....and it's still true that Harvard Med is harder to get into than Harvard Law.

And before everyone jumps in, of course there are great surgeons who graduate from Harvard. But the best surgeons practice, practice, practice and academic careers aren't the best for getting the volume you need.

Depends on the specialty. If it were any IM-related specialty, I'd go to the academic center because they've had much broader exposure to a wide variety of pathologies and colleagues who could help if they were at a loss. Surgery is certainly dependent on practice.

 

[AdrianVeidt]

neither isn't an option bruh, my question my rules. insubordination will not be tolerated

 

[BlueLabel]

neither isn't an option bruh, my question my rules. insubordination will not be tolerated

I rate this post

 

[Narmerguy]

I made this a long time ago because I was curious about acceptance rates at other professional schools. In retrospect, there's a lot more to the story than this. But whatever, I already made it and it took a stupid amount of time.

This ended up taking much longer than I originally intended but whatever, it's out there now! Here's a table I compiled of acceptance rates at various professional schools (Medical, Law, Business, Vet, Engineering), using their ranks by USNews (figured I'd get the lowest acceptance rates that way). Obtaining data on dental school was way too difficult so I deleted it from the table. Vet data on acc rates were obtained by searching school websites. Many of them I have listed as "couldn't find" because they provide only the number of students enrolled and the number of applicants, but not the total # of acceptances. Oh well. Enjoy! This took hours to compile.

I'll admit I was quite surprised by how all of them are compared to medical school, particularly in the mid-tier schools! Mid tier schools are not included for Veterinary schools because there are less than 30 of them nationwide.

 

[Law2Doc]

... and there are no interviews (no point because you don't have to be ethical to be a lawyer)...

Some law schools do have interviews... Some bar exams do as well.
And actually law has much more formal ethical training than any other professional school, has detailed codes of legal ethics which are actually enforced, many bar exams have ethics and character interview components, and in general most lawyers simply pay more attention to ethics than other fields because you have it stressed throughout your legal training. if you look at the disciplinary numbers and literature, breaches of ethics tend to be more frequent and severe in medicine and other fields, probably because this kind of training isn't emphasized. So there are ton of problems in law, but suggesting you don't have to be ethical to be a Lawyer is equivalent to suggesting that you don't have to know any anatomy to be a surgeon.

 

[Vorspiel]

Some law schools do have interviews... Some bar exams do as well.
And actually law has much more formal ethical training than any other professional school, has detailed codes of legal ethics which are actually enforced, many bar exams have ethics and character interview components, and in general most lawyers simply pay more attention to ethics than other fields because you have it stressed throughout your legal training. if you look at the disciplinary numbers and literature, breaches of ethics tend to be more frequent and severe in medicine and other fields, probably because this kind of training isn't emphasized. So there are ton of problems in law, but suggesting you don't have to be ethical to be a Lawyer is equivalent to suggesting that you don't have to know any anatomy to be a surgeon.

In sum, all of that ethical training just makes lawyers better at not getting caught

 

[BlueLabel]

In sum, all of that ethical training just makes lawyers better at not getting caught

Bingo

 

[knv2u]

What's a MediCare premed?

I made a typo and it was autocorrected to "medicare" instead of "mediocre".

 

[knv2u]

87th percentile, according to year 2013. Is that number mediocre? /rhetorical

Use your brain and see what your replying to next time.

The job market is very poor in the legal field. If you want to get into a very top school (i.e. where the job prospects are decent), yes it is a mediocre score. The schools with the best employment rates are typically in the top 10. I stand by my post. A 170 or better would be considered more acceptable for the very top programs. That's what I was saying.

Here you go:
(A 25th percentile score would give you a minimal chance of admission, and most of the schools referenced in my post are well above 163. Read my original post again, posted at the end. You are the one that needs to read a little more carefully and you will see the context was clearly in reference to a top 15 school.).

1. Yale:
   25th percentile of accepted students: 170
   75th percentile of accepted students: 177
2. Harvard:
   25th percentile: 171
   75th percentile: 176
3. Stanford:
   25th percentile: 167
   75th percentile: 172
4. Columbia:
   25th percentile: 170
   75th percentile: 175
5. New York University:
   25th percentile: 170
   75th percentile: 174
6. UC Berkeley:
   25th percentile: 164
   75th percentile: 169
7. University of Chicago:
   25th percentile: 169
   75th percentile: 173
8. University of Pennsylvania:
   25th percentile: 166
   75th percentile: 171
9. University of Michigan – Ann Arbor:
   25th percentile: 167
   75th percentile: 170
10. Duke University:
    25th percentile: 166
    75th percentile: 170
11. Northwestern University:
    25th percentile: 166
    75th percentile: 171
12. University of Virginia:
    25th percentile: 165
    75th percentile: 171
13. Cornell:
    25th percentile: 166
    75th percentile: 170
14. Georgetown:
    25th percentile: 168
    75th percentile: 172
15. UCLA:
    25th percentile: 164
    75th percentile: 169

A 163 score on the LSAT is medicare and while some may get into a top 15 school (like some medicare premeds will get into a top 15 medical school - it happens statistically every year), I think you are distorting the numbers. Also, there are law schools that include interview components. Harvard comes to mind.

 

[Law2Doc]

In sum, all of that ethical training just makes lawyers better at not getting caught

Nah, it makes you sensitive to the lines you can't cross, the consequences, and how close you can sail into the wind without tipping over. others (including unfortunately many many doctors) who don't really appreciate where the lines are, or what will happen if they run afoul of them, carelessly cross them and so a lot more get caught. In sum, while it's perhaps an old running joke to call your lawyer a Shyster, in fact far more of the people in other fields are doing things they oughtn't.

 

[Gauss44]

I said medical school, but I can't prove it.......anyone?

Admissions requirements for medical school are so much more difficult. A student with a C average can get into law school!

That being said, I suspect that it's easier to get good grades in medical school. Law school is well known for giving out the most lousy grades to good students. Law school might be more difficult to get through and do well in. I used to handle resumes for a large corporate (biglaw) law firm. I noticed that the highest GPA in some law school classes was sometimes a 3.5 on a 4.0 scale, or less.

Since people are commenting about career possibilities, I will mention that the legal field is much more interested in personal accomplishments outside of college, than the medical field. Activism that directly results in changed laws or significant social change, for example, can make up for going to a lower tier school or lower grades. Significant accomplishments in business (like having a truly impressive deal sheet) can have the same result.

I personally like the distinction between a person's performance as a student versus a professional performance. I agree that grades and school performance often fail to measure a person's potential as a professional. Part of my beef with medical school admissions policies is that I think they tend to "miss the point" by summing people up in GPA and MCAT terms, and they don't pay enough to professional accomplishments, which may be more revealing in many cases.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I don't like saying stuff without the proof so I will leave these two links here.

"Law schools could be admitting 80 percent of their applicants this fall, statistics suggest"

http://www.abajournal.com/news/arti..._80_percent_of_their_applicants_this_fall_sta

AAMC data
https://www.aamc.org/download/321508/data/2012factstable24.
https://www.aamc.org/download/321442/data/2012factstable1.pdf

Medical school overall is harder to get into than law school.

 

[Apollo1]

Long list of schools etc.

Your post was long enough that it would be irksome on my part to quote the entirety of it, but the above is in relation to your response. The second part of my initial response ("Pay attention") was directed at the fact that you were replying to a post from years prior, and it was out of context. We'd need to know how many kids with mid 160's apply to "T14" in order to fully appreciate the relationship of the 25th percentile. Kids that go to T14 (USNews ranking methodology for law schools is a joke at best) are usually aiming their applications at the largest urban centers (i.e. NYC, Chicago, D.C., etc.) where the largest white-shoe firms have offices. In the context of percentiles 0-100, an 87th percentile is definitionally not mediocre, and a good number of students who do get jobs within the AmLaw 250 will have entrance scores in the 160's when they entered law school.

If you want to work in the largest legal hubs, the 160's probably won't be the start you need. However, for the greater amount of what jobs there are in the continental US, the 160's is not mediocre.

 

[masaraksh]

^^The 2 most prestigious jobs in American society, I can see reason for comparison.

To answer the question: depends on the specific school (some med schools are easier to get into than some law schools, and vice versa). I would predict that Harvard Law is probably more difficult to get into than Harvard Med.

are you in high school?

 

[pkwraith]

I think a much closer comparison would be getting into a MD Med School vs a T14 Law School (or arguably just HYS). Than you can throw in the TTT law schools vs Carribeans (and even this one, Carribeans is >>> TTT because of Cooley et al)

 

[Law2Doc]

Many med schools are P/F or variations on that theme with high pass/honors, so it would be hard to usefully compare directly with law schoolletter grades, which is why residencies mostly focus on Step 1 scores as the universal yardstick. Also tge testing is very different, with more multiple choice style tests in med school and more essay style tests in law school. It's probably not useful to compare grades between these two.

As for how these schools value outside accomplishments, I think both forms of school put decent weight on these. However since law school has fewer barriers of entry (no prereqs), you probably see a lot more nontrads in law school. I don't recall anyone in my law school class having a "deal sheet" but we had a ton of former paralegals and law enforcement officers, and yes even a few "activists."

Admissions requirements for medical school are so much more difficult. A student with a C average can get into law school!

That being said, I suspect that it's easier to get good grades in medical school. Law school is well known for giving out the most lousy grades to good students. Law school might be more difficult to get through and do well in. I used to handle resumes for a large corporate (biglaw) law firm. I noticed that the highest GPA in some law school classes was sometimes a 3.5 on a 4.0 scale, or less.

Since people are commenting about career possibilities, I will mention that the legal field is much more interested in personal accomplishments outside of college, than the medical field. Activism that directly results in changed laws or significant social change, for example, can make up for going to a lower tier school or lower grades. Significant accomplishments in business (like having a truly impressive deal sheet) can have the same result.

I personally like the distinction between a person's performance as a student versus a professional performance. I agree that grades and school performance often fail to measure a person's potential as a professional. Part of my beef with medical school admissions policies is that I think they tend to "miss the point" by summing people up in GPA and MCAT terms, and they don't pay enough to professional accomplishments, which may be more revealing in many cases.

 

[darklabel]

I'm curious what the percentage of new grads who graduate law school and get a job in their field within 6 months is. It's probably comparable or even less than the number of medical school admissions.

I enjoy the fact that our biggest hurdle is getting into medical school and more likely than not, we will have jobs waiting for us thanks to a bottleneck in residency, a large amount of doctors older than 55 and retiring and the need for physicians that is expected to increase.

While for some of the professional jobs around (law, pharmacy etc...), that isn't quite the case and it doesn't look good for them in the future.