Which medical school should I choose?

[macethebass]

I have recently been accepted to two medical programs: Ohio University's DO program, and the University of Cincinnati's MD program. Both of these schools seem promising and I have heard positive aspects from several doctors about both of them, so making this decision is difficult for me. Ultimately, I want to pursue either orthopedics or pediatrics in my medical education, and I want to go to a school that will effectively train me in these fields and put me at the greatest advantage in terms of residency placement.

Do these schools have significantly different residency placement? Is there a advantage/disadvantage to becoming a DO vs. MD?

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[Anti-PD1]

Go to the MD school. Always.

 

[HomeSkool]

This is a no-brainer, mon frere. The MD school will open more doors to you.

 

[You shall know the Truth]

DO schools add OS skills lectures and labs to every semester. This means that you have additional midterms, finals, quizzes, practicals, and material for boards that take away from studying the core class material. Also, we have to implement that into our examination for step 2 PE. This makes DO programs difficult because your attention is being spent on other things. Also there is a bias against DOs, albeit not as much as it once was. My advice go MD!

Respectfully,
DO student

 

[Frogger27]

This should not even be a decision but since you are asking....

You are interested in Ortho and Peds. Let's look at what these two specialties.

Ortho = Be a strong MD student, period. DO students match in AOA ortho, but with the upcoming merger it leaves some questions to be ask. Your safest/best bet to be an ortho surgeon is to attend the MD school and be a good student/make connections.

Peds: Cincinnati Children's is one of the top 3 children's hospital in the country. The pathology and connections you will make there will will be infinitely better than at OU. People come from all across the world to be treated there. It is a giant in the pediatric world.

Cincinnati matches much more competitive than OU. OU has strong DO residency placement (specifically in Ohio), but this still does not pale in comparison to UC.

Oh yeah, and MD >> DO

 

[macethebass]

This should not even be a decision but since you are asking....

You are interested in Ortho and Peds. Let's look at what these two specialties.

Ortho = Be a strong MD student, period. DO students match in AOA ortho, but with the upcoming merger it leaves some questions to be ask. Your safest/best bet to be an ortho surgeon is to attend the MD school and be a good student/make connections.

Peds: Cincinnati Children's is one of the top 3 children's hospital in the country. The pathology and connections you will make there will will be infinitely better than at OU. People come from all across the world to be treated there. It is a giant in the pediatric world.

Cincinnati matches much more competitive than OU. OU has strong DO residency placement (specifically in Ohio), but this still does not pale in comparison to UC.

Oh yeah, and MD >> DO

Thanks! Those are some compelling arguments and they match a lot of what I've read and what I feel.

 

[Dudblue12]

If you look on past threads, this "DO school vs MD school" is a topic that is beaten to death on SDN; the sentiment on here seems to be to always choose the MD school. Keep in mind that both these programs are fantastic and they each graduate successful physicians, but I think as a student who is in between the two it is important you choose the philosophy that you are most in tune with. Are you interested primarily in academic medicine? Or do you hope to be a pure clinician? Do you have an interest in OMM? Do you like the different take on medicine an osteopathic school offers? Are you worried that your chances at a big name residency will be decreased by the medical degree you have? Both medical schools will teach you basically the same material, but its up to you to determine which of these slight differences will help you become the physician YOU want to be.

As a gap year student who has pondered the same question for a very long time, I will attest that it is not an easy decision to make (especially if you're a student choosing a DO degree over the MD degree). It takes a lot of self reflection, but if you have time, I recommend talking to MD and DO physicians you personally know and also doing some research about the two professions and why two distinct professions of medicine exist in the first place. Although I am still considering/awaiting offers, I personally lean towards the DO degree. I love this quote from Dr. Atul Gawande in "Being Mortal", which I believe resonates with the fundamental philosophy of osteopathic medicine. It reads "If to be human is to be limited, then the role of caring professions and institutions-from surgeons to nursing homes- ought to be aiding people in their struggle with those limits. Sometimes we can offer a cure, sometimes only a salve, sometimes not even that. But whatever we can offer, our interventions, and our risks and the sacrifices they entail, are justified only if they serve the larger aims of a person's life. When we forget that, the suffering we inflict can be barbaric. When we remember it the good we can do can be breathtaking."

But whats even more important is that you got into two great medical schools! Congratulations! What you have is an opportunity that not many pre-medical students have. Go and live life before its taken away from you by a decade of graduate and post-graduate training. Regardless of what you choose, I hope we can both look forward to becoming fellow colleagues and soldiers on battlefields of human medicine .

 

[SunsFun]

Not to take away from the above, but I wouldn’t use educational philosophy written in the mission statement to choose a medical school.

 

[med2345]

is someone really asking this? ...

 

[Gilakend]

I have to wonder if there is some other reason you're considering this.

Is OU closer to family/SO that you're considering going there? Everyone else has already pointed out why you should go MD, I'm just curious.

 

[kubyx]

Med school is hard enough. Might as well go where there are less obstacles and better outcomes for residency, which is always MD.

Spoken as someone going to a DO school next summer.

 

[ShaolinMaster]

This should not even be a decision but since you are asking....

You are interested in Ortho and Peds. Let's look at what these two specialties.

Ortho = Be a strong MD student, period. DO students match in AOA ortho, but with the upcoming merger it leaves some questions to be ask. Your safest/best bet to be an ortho surgeon is to attend the MD school and be a good student/make connections.

Oh yeah, and MD >> DO

I was talking to a 4th year about this and to expect bias on both sides. DO programs still matching DO and MD still match MD. I expect the MD bias to still be there but I never thought about DO programs having a bias towards MD's. Wondering how true this will be once we hit merger time.

To OP, go MD. No reason to have 4 yrs of hard work be undermined by title bias from your colleagues. Actually had a fellow student remark about Caribs saying they should have just went DO, PA, Nursing since it's easier to get into. All of in front of a DO, who got a bit offended and spoke about the DO bias. Student just shrugged and stood tall.

 

[sab3156]

MD. Always. I am a DO student at one of the "better" DO schools, and there are a huge number of reasons to choose an MD school over a DO school. There is absolutely no reason to choose a DO school over an MD school. I am really surprised that you are even asking this question.

 

[Frogger27]

I was talking to a 4th year about this and to expect bias on both sides. DO programs still matching DO and MD still match MD. I expect the MD bias to still be there but I never thought about DO programs having a bias towards MD's. Wondering how true this will be once we hit merger time.

To OP, go MD. No reason to have 4 yrs of hard work be undermined by title bias from your colleagues. Actually had a fellow student remark about Caribs saying they should have just went DO, PA, Nursing since it's easier to get into. All of in front of a DO, who got a bit offended and spoke about the DO bias. Student just shrugged and stood tall.

Yeah I have heard that former AOA programs will continue to favor DO students; however, that is all lip service right now. Don't know how PDs will respond after a couple of years once they start seeing 100s of uber competitive MD apps or once these PDs get replaced at some point and a new guard is in charge. I agree though that as long as the DO is competitive on the same level as their MD counterparts that AOA programs will probably favor them...... my main point was to just avoid this whole situation and make it easier on yourself by going MD

 

[mvenus929]

If you are considering Peds, you should hands down go to Cincinnati. Their Peds program is amazing (though I wouldn’t be a resident there for various reasons, it was an awesome place to interview for fellowship).

Also, until DO schools in general form good relationships with local health systems like most MD schools do, their students will be at a disadvantage when it comes to clerkships. I don’t know how Ohio runs their clerkships, but having to basically make your own fourth year like most DO students I see has to suck.

 

[Redpancreas]

I have recently been accepted to two medical programs: Ohio University's DO program, and the University of Cincinnati's MD program. Both of these schools seem promising and I have heard positive aspects from several doctors about both of them, so making this decision is difficult for me. Ultimately, I want to pursue either orthopedics or pediatrics in my medical education, and I want to go to a school that will effectively train me in these fields and put me at the greatest advantage in terms of residency placement.

Do these schools have significantly different residency placement? Is there a advantage/disadvantage to becoming a DO vs. MD?

Is this being posted by an anti-Cincinnati troll? Cincinnati is a mid/lower tier MD in a nice city vs. Ohio University?

 

[Stagg737]

Is this being posted by an anti-Cincinnati troll? Cincinnati is a mid/lower tier MD in a nice city vs. Ohio University?

To everyone saying "are you serious?" to this post, I don't think it's that ridiculous given how atrocious pre-med advisers are and the general ignorance the public has about the DO degree. I'll admit I didn't even know what a DO was until my junior year in college, and the only reason I found out then was because the physician mentor I was matched up to is a DO. Had I not met him, I probably would never have even explored what a DO was until joining this website (several years later). I think a lot of people on SDN forget that the general public has little to no knowledge of the DO degree or even that DOs are actual physicians, and that same ignorance is very common among pre-med students as well.

To OP: Go to Cinci. It takes a very unique and rare situation for anyone with any understanding of the two degrees to recommend DO over MD, and this is certainly not one of those situations.

 

[Redpancreas]

If you look on past threads, this "DO school vs MD school" is a topic that is beaten to death on SDN; the sentiment on here seems to be to always choose the MD school. Keep in mind that both these programs are fantastic and they each graduate successful physicians, but I think as a student who is in between the two it is important you choose the philosophy that you are most in tune with. Are you interested primarily in academic medicine? Or do you hope to be a pure clinician? Do you have an interest in OMM? Do you like the different take on medicine an osteopathic school offers? Are you worried that your chances at a big name residency will be decreased by the medical degree you have? Both medical schools will teach you basically the same material, but its up to you to determine which of these slight differences will help you become the physician YOU want to be.

As a gap year student who has pondered the same question for a very long time, I will attest that it is not an easy decision to make (especially if you're a student choosing a DO degree over the MD degree). It takes a lot of self reflection, but if you have time, I recommend talking to MD and DO physicians you personally know and also doing some research about the two professions and why two distinct professions of medicine exist in the first place. Although I am still considering/awaiting offers, I personally lean towards the DO degree. I love this quote from Dr. Atul Gawande in "Being Mortal", which I believe resonates with the fundamental philosophy of osteopathic medicine. It reads "If to be human is to be limited, then the role of caring professions and institutions-from surgeons to nursing homes- ought to be aiding people in their struggle with those limits. Sometimes we can offer a cure, sometimes only a salve, sometimes not even that. But whatever we can offer, our interventions, and our risks and the sacrifices they entail, are justified only if they serve the larger aims of a person's life. When we forget that, the suffering we inflict can be barbaric. When we remember it the good we can do can be breathtaking."

But whats even more important is that you got into two great medical schools! Congratulations! What you have is an opportunity that not many pre-medical students have. Go and live life before its taken away from you by a decade of graduate and post-graduate training. Regardless of what you choose, I hope we can both look forward to becoming fellow colleagues and soldiers on battlefields of human medicine .

There is nothing unique to the DO philosophy that is useful to patient care outside of whatever direct benefits OMM provides. I’m sorry if I just shat on what may be your self-rationalization for having DO as an only option but according to what’s strictly in your post, it sounds like you’re still in the running for MD but are leaning DO regardless so my tone is as it stands now to strongly recommend that you do not let any propaganda make you make the wrong decision. Any DO students on here (many of whom are more than deserving or are of higher caliber than MD students) will tell you the same thing.

 

[Redpancreas]

To everyone saying "are you serious?" to this post, I don't think it's that ridiculous given how atrocious pre-med advisers are and the general ignorance the public has about the DO degree. I'll admit I didn't even know what a DO was until my junior year in college, and the only reason I found out then was because the physician mentor I was matched up to is a DO. Had I not met him, I probably would never have even explored what a DO was until joining this website (several years later). I think a lot of people on SDN forget that the general public has little to no knowledge of the DO degree or even that DOs are actual physicians, and that same ignorance is very common among pre-med students as well.

To OP: Go to Cinci. It takes a very unique and rare situation for anyone with any understanding of the two degrees to recommend DO over MD, and this is certainly not one of those situations.

I agree pre-med advising is generally poor and DO equivalence is not yet mainstream knowledge, but what does that have to do with OP choosing a no-name DO school over an established MD school with the top 2-3 EM and Peds Program in the country. Its an academic teaching hospital that takes care of the sickest patients in the region vs. what’s likely a community hospital associated with OUCOM. I don’t even know OUCOM but the state of Ohio probably has the highest #MD schools (7) per capita. The only reasonable explanation for this not to be a troll thread is if it’s a full ride at OU vs full tuition at Cincy in which case I’d stop to think for a second before still going MD.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

This shouldn’t even be a question, and I’m a DO student.

 

[Stagg737]

I agree pre-med advising is generally poor and DO equivalence is not yet mainstream knowledge, but what does that have to do with OP choosing a no-name DO school over an established MD school with the top 2-3 EM and Peds Program in the country. Its an academic teaching hospital that takes care of the sickest patients in the region vs. what’s likely a community hospital associated with OUCOM. The only reasonable explanation for this not to be a troll thread is if it’s a full ride at OU vs full tuition at Cincy in which case I’d stop to think for a second before still going MD.

If OP doesn't know about the reputation of Cinci's pediatric hospital or the disadvantage of going to a DO school it's completely relevant. Ask most pre-meds what a community hospital vs. an academic hospital is or community vs. academic residency and they'd probably have no clue. I didn't, and I"m fairly certain none of my friends did either.

 

[Redpancreas]

If OP doesn't know about the reputation of Cinci's pediatric hospital or the disadvantage of going to a DO school it's completely relevant. Ask most pre-meds what a community hospital vs. an academic hospital is or community vs. academic residency and they'd probably have no clue. I didn't, and I"m fairly certain none of my friends did either.

Oic, you meant you’re not surprised by the level of ignorance, gotcha.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

but what does that have to do with OP choosing a no-name DO school over an established MD school with the top 2-3 EM and Peds Program in the country.

To be fair, OUHCOM is a state school with lots of residencies so I wouldn’t say they are a no name DO school. They consistently place grads in good residencies and have placed grads in competitive fields/programs like surgery and ortho at the Cleveland Clinic. Pretty well known in Ohio and the Midwest.

That being said, Cincy 100x. The MD will always make life easier when it comes to residency and should always be chosen unless someone is in extremely extenuating circumstances.

 

[Redpancreas]

To be fair, OUHCOM is a state school with lots of residencies so I wouldn’t say they are a no name DO school. They consistently place grads in good residencies and have placed grads in competitive fields/programs like surgery and ortho at the Cleveland Clinic. Pretty well known in Ohio and the Midwest.

That being said, Cincy 100x. The MD will always make life easier when it comes to residency and should always be chosen unless someone is in extremely extenuating circumstances.

Noted. Sry. Good to know. Surprising considering there are 7 MD schools in Ohio. Can you believe that? OSU, Case, CCF, Cincinnati, NEUCOM, Toledo, and Wright State.

 

[raiderette]

OUHCOM is a great DO school, but Cincy is amazing at one of your desired specialties. Enjoy Cincinnati.

Sent from my [device_name] using SDN mobile

 

[PatchAdams25]

When I interviewed at Cincinnati they showed us their step 1 scores the last two years and the average was 240 which is incredibly impressive.. so being “average” at Cincinnati will set you up in ways that being at the top of OUHCOM wouldn’t be able to

 

[macethebass]

I have to wonder if there is some other reason you're considering this.

Is OU closer to family/SO that you're considering going there? Everyone else has already pointed out why you should go MD, I'm just curious.

There is one other reason. My fiance is currently looking at two graduate schools: one in OU and one at Miami University (which is about 30 minutes from Cincinnati) Between these two schools, I truly believe that OU would be the best for her. With that in mind, I really have two options. Either go to OU with her and have the luxury of living in the same area and going to the same school as my fiance/wife, or I can go to Cincinnati and be away from her for the duration of her two year program.

 

[macethebass]

Thanks to everyone for responding to my question. I apologize if I came off as either ignorant or trolling. Many of the points that were made were ones that I was considering as well, and hearing them from multiple sources was affirming. I have until May to decide on a school, and I still have several interviews until then. As of right now, I am definitely leaning Cincy (probably 90:10) but I am open to debate and discussion with anyone who might want to convince me otherwise.

Thanks again!

 

[EmilKraepelin55]

Thanks to everyone for responding to my question. I apologize if I came off as either ignorant or trolling. Many of the points that were made were ones that I was considering as well, and hearing them from multiple sources was affirming. I have until May to decide on a school, and I still have several interviews until then. As of right now, I am definitely leaning Cincy (probably 90:10) but I am open to debate and discussion with anyone who might want to convince me otherwise.

Thanks again!

To me, it seems a no brainer to move with respect to the spouse in a situation like this. For me, I personally cherish my time with my fiancée too much to separate for the first two years of marriage. It's such a necessity for us. Plus that is a critical time to really invest in each other so that the marriage can really last. Doing medical school separated from a spouse during that critical time period seems like it would really put extra weight on the two of you on top of the separation. But I don't know your personal relationship and the dynamic, and so take my opinion for what it's worth in your eyes. To me, the career is very important, but I really also want a fulfilling married/family life. This is a tough decision OP, so definitely do what's best for the both of you of course. Best of luck in the decision!

 

[bommer1389]

You should go to Cincy and your fiancé should go to Miami. You could live together and split the distance. Interested to hear why you believe OU is better for him.

 

[Dudblue12]

Not to take away from the above, but I wouldn’t use educational philosophy written in the mission statement to choose a medical school.

Why would you think so? I think educational philosophy is incredibly important because you will be representative of that school and mission as a medical student, and if you don't believe in said mission I think your 4 years in medical school would be wasted in a way. Priorities will vary between person, so we can agree to disagree.

 

[sab3156]

I question the integrity and mental status of those who voted for the DO school in the poll above. But maybe these people are wait listed at Cincinnati, in which case I understand their motives.

 

[rg2o3]

Go MD. No question about it.

 

[SunsFun]

Why would you think so? I think educational philosophy is incredibly important because you will be representative of that school and mission as a medical student, and if you don't believe in said mission I think your 4 years in medical school would be wasted in a way. Priorities will vary between person, so we can agree to disagree.

You ever read a mission statement of a hospital or a medical school? Do you know who writes them?

I personally have no idea about what is written in one for a school that I've attended for years. I don't think anyone in my school does either, probably including the dean.

 

[sleepyhead22]

To me, it seems a no brainer to move with respect to the spouse in a situation like this. For me, I personally cherish my time with my fiancée too much to separate for the first two years of marriage. It's such a necessity for us. Plus that is a critical time to really invest in each other so that the marriage can really last. Doing medical school separated from a spouse during that critical time period seems like it would really put extra weight on the two of you on top of the separation. But I don't know your personal relationship and the dynamic, and so take my opinion for what it's worth in your eyes. To me, the career is very important, but I really also want a fulfilling married/family life. This is a tough decision OP, so definitely do what's best for the both of you of course. Best of luck in the decision!

On the flip side, I've been living apart from my spouse during my first year of medical school. We are only a couple of hours away, and I'm so busy during the week that I would be am extremely selfish partner during this time anyways. It is not ideal, but has worked really well for us so far. I appreciate being able to focus fully on my studies without having to feel guilty, and then when my spouse visits on weekends it forces me to take a break.


As for those saying OU-HCOM is a no-name school, that definitely isn't the case. The Cleveland campus for example has a great relationship with the Cleveland Clinic and certainly is a great school. That being said, I would definitely choose Cincinnati over OU for the many reasons that have been pointed out in this thread.

PS- OP, if you interview at/get accepted to OSU hit me up.

 

[Stagg737]

Why would you think so? I think educational philosophy is incredibly important because you will be representative of that school and mission as a medical student, and if you don't believe in said mission I think your 4 years in medical school would be wasted in a way. Priorities will vary between person, so we can agree to disagree.

As already stated, the mission statement of a school isn't a cut and dry thing and from talking to friends at other schools, it doesn't go beyond who they decide to accept. For example, one of my school's mission statements is to help contribute to medical research, but there is very minimal emphasis on research my school, and it's pretty much not allowed if you don't have a high enough GPA. Most med schools with mission statements that are actually followed typically have to do with either serving the medical needs of their state or producing physicians more likely to work with certain underserved demographics. A few schools may have "unique" mission statements, but those are largely secondary in terms of the education provided and typically just involve students taking an extra class or two during first two years. If there are certain programs that a school has that another doesn't, that's one thing. However, most statements that have things like "we believe in serving our community" or "we value our students becoming a part of the academic community" shouldn't be given much weight when picking a school.

 

[Dudblue12]

You ever read a mission statement of a hospital or a medical school? Do you know who writes them?

I personally have no idea about what is written in one for a school that I've attended for years. I don't think anyone in my school does either, probably including the dean.

I've read all of them for each medical school I applied too. They don't mention who the authors are but you can assume that's what the school stands for and what they hope for their students to become. I'm not sure which medical school you go to but the schools I interviewed at all had very strong and distinct missions; whether it be to further an educational philosophy or graduate physicians to serve a specific patient population.

I think its really a matter of who you look up to. All the physicians I look up to aren't the ones who have the shiniest cars or the fanciest names behind their titles, but those who really see a purpose in their work. It is a profession where you can be instrumental to some great changes and I want to be a part of that change. Naturally, things like whether I get some big name residency to rub in the faces of others or the chance to place in some extra-high paying specialty may have to be sacrificed.

I agree with everyone here that an acceptance to such a fantastic MD program is not to be carelessly thrown away. I just wanted to encourage those who are in such a position to reflect on what they hope to do with their medical degree and to carefully contemplate which school will truly fulfill that goal, irregardless of what bias or difficulty they may or may not face in the future.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Cincy has a great peds program.

As far as ortho goes, I believe 3 DO students matched to ACGME ortho out of 727 total spots. You maybe locked into AOA ortho, of which there are less and less spots as they convert to ACGME.

 

[SunsFun]

I've read all of them for each medical school I applied too. They don't mention who the authors are but you can assume that's what the school stands for and what they hope for their students to become. I'm not sure which medical school you go to but the schools I interviewed at all had very strong and distinct missions; whether it be to further an educational philosophy or graduate physicians to serve a specific patient population.

I think its really a matter of who you look up to. All the physicians I look up to aren't the ones who have the shiniest cars or the fanciest names behind their titles, but those who really see a purpose in their work. It is a profession where you can be instrumental to some great changes and I want to be a part of that change. Naturally, things like whether I get some big name residency to rub in the faces of others or the chance to place in some extra-high paying specialty may have to be sacrificed.

I agree with everyone here that an acceptance to such a fantastic MD program is not to be carelessly thrown away. I just wanted to encourage those who are in such a position to reflect on what they hope to do with their medical degree and to carefully contemplate which school will truly fulfill that goal, irregardless of what bias or difficulty they may or may not face in the future.

Your argument is based on several underlying assumptions that are "shaky" to say the least:
1. Mission statements accurately reflect educational philosophy of faculty and students for each medical school
2. No mention of certain aspect of providing medical care in a mission statement (e.g. serving the underserved) indicates lack of that aspect relative to the institution that does mention it
3. Splitting of physicians into "ones who have the shiniest cars" vs. "seeing a purpose in their work" separate categories.
4. Assuming that residency name or pursuing high paying specialty cannot lead to a more opportunities to be instrumental to some great changes.
5. Assuming that the career goals of someone starting medical school will remain the same throughout medical school.
6. And of course the assumption that you mention the the school (who exactly?) stands for what is written in their statement; and even if "they" do and hope for some specific type of career for their graduates - that hope actually makes a difference.

 

[VincentAdultman]

It's kind of moot isn't it? Who is using the mission statement when choosing MD vs DO?