which ones didnt fill?

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DCDAWG

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Are we allowed to know which programs had to scramble now?
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I'm curious to see which programs they were. I heard they were in the south, but how many spots were there?
 
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ThymeLess said:
There were 1607 intern spots and 5 went unfilled prior to the scramble. I don't know, but I guess all 5 were filled very quickly.

TL
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This makes me wonder how many EM applicants total there were this year. Seems like it was very competitive... and I'll be surprised if it's any different next year.
 
ThymeLess said:
There were 1607 intern spots and 5 went unfilled prior to the scramble. I don't know, but I guess all 5 were filled very quickly.

TL
Click to expand...
1482 US Seniors applied for those 1607 positions. As a soon to be grad of a US medical school, am I wrong to think that those are decent odds? There are more spots than there are US seniors applying. I assume if a program is taking FMGs over US grads that it cannot be all that competitive. Thoughts?
 
ShanFan said:
This makes me wonder how many EM applicants total there were this year. Seems like it was very competitive... and I'll be surprised if it's any different next year.
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If I'm reading this chart right, there were 1482 US senior applicants and 2230 total applicants applying for 1607 positions. 1602 of those 1607 positions filled in the match. 1268 of those positions were filled by US seniors.
 
NewAndImproved said:
If I'm reading this chart right, there were 1482 US senior applicants and 2230 total applicants applying for 1607 positions. 1602 of those 1607 positions filled in the match. 1268 of those positions were filled by US seniors.
Click to expand...
Whats the overall match rate? Higher or lower than 86%? Seems kinda low to me. That's 214 US seniors left out in the cold.
 
Raryn said:
Whats the overall match rate? Higher or lower than 86%? Seems kinda low to me. That's 214 US seniors left out in the cold.
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I'm guessing it wasn't 214 US Seniors left out in the cold. Several of those could have been people applying to multiple specialties (eg. Ortho with EM as "back-up") and ended up going into their other specialty. Not saying thats true for all of them, but I'm guessing thats more likely than 214 seniors actually not matching.
 
alwaysaangel said:
I'm guessing it wasn't 214 US Seniors left out in the cold. Several of those could have been people applying to multiple specialties (eg. Ortho with EM as "back-up") and ended up going into their other specialty. Not saying thats true for all of them, but I'm guessing thats more likely than 214 seniors actually not matching.
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That's a great point. The NRMP data sheet made note of it but I failed to see it in that context.

So help me out with this: I keep reading that the 2011 EM match was "very competitive." If an individual is hoping to match into a brand name program, I agree that this year was competitive....but isn't every year competitive when you're gunning for the best positions? If someone from the US is simply hoping to match into EM, it seems very do-able. What am I missing?
 
NewAndImproved said:
That's a great point. The NRMP data sheet made note of it but I failed to see it in that context.

So help me out with this: I keep reading that the 2011 EM match was "very competitive." If an individual is hoping to match into a brand name program, I agree that this year was competitive....but isn't every year competitive when you're gunning for the best positions? If someone from the US is simply hoping to match into EM, it seems very do-able. What am I missing?
Click to expand...

I don't think you're missing anything. I think its really hard to look at it and truly know if this year was more competitive or not.

When applying a lot of PDs said they thought they received a lot more applications but it seemed like people were just applying to more programs.

My school had 17 go into EM. 100% matched and the vast majority got their top 1-2 (many 'name' programs and a lot of west coast since thats where we are). So at least for our school, we didn't see a scary jump in difficulty matching.
 
alwaysaangel said:
I don't think you're missing anything. I think its really hard to look at it and truly know if this year was more competitive or not.

When applying a lot of PDs said they thought they received a lot more applications but it seemed like people were just applying to more programs.

My school had 17 go into EM. 100% matched and the vast majority got their top 1-2 (many 'name' programs and a lot of west coast since thats where we are). So at least for our school, we didn't see a scary jump in difficulty matching.
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On the flip side, my school has historically matched pretty well. This year, we had 8 or 9 students of 20 that went into EM that matched in the bottom 1/3 of their ROL. Clerkship Director/Adviser said the quality of this year's applicant class from my school was better so he was surprised. We are an east coast school as well. He just said it's better that all of us matched b/c there weren't scramble spots any of us would have wanted.
 
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From the NRMP Match Day Press Release:

"Specialty Trends
Match results can be an indicator of career interests among U.S. medical school seniors. Among the notable trends this year:

Dermatology, orthopaedic surgery, otolaryngology, plastic surgery, radiation oncology,
thoracic surgery, and vascular surgery were the most competitive fields for applicants.
At least 90 percent of those positions were filled by U.S. medical school seniors.

The number of U.S. medical school seniors in emergency medicine increased by 7
percent and grew for the sixth year in a row, as they filled 1,268 of the 1,607 first-year
positions available."

It appears more US seniors wanted to go into EM this year, which makes one assume it had to have been more competitive. How much so is anyone's guess. It certainly didn't jump into the ubber-competitive specialities, but the borderline candidates probably had a harder time.
 
docstar1 said:
On the flip side, my school has historically matched pretty well. This year, we had 8 or 9 students of 20 that went into EM that matched in the bottom 1/3 of their ROL. Clerkship Director/Adviser said the quality of this year's applicant class from my school was better so he was surprised. We are an east coast school as well. He just said it's better that all of us matched b/c there weren't scramble spots any of us would have wanted.
Click to expand...

Just about the same here. I go to a middle of the pack med school. Quite a few people going into EM did not get top 3. Only 3/15 I think got #1.
Most people ended up pretty happy, but there were a few surprises for people on Thursday.
Seemed competitive from my viewpoint. That being said, all but one matched, and that guy was a repeat applicant. So it wasnt necessarily tough to match.
 
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NewAndImproved said:
1482 US Seniors applied for those 1607 positions. As a soon to be grad of a US medical school, am I wrong to think that those are decent odds? There are more spots than there are US seniors applying. I assume if a program is taking FMGs over US grads that it cannot be all that competitive. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Just an addition to this thought...
I don't think DO students are included in the NRMP's "US seniors" group. There are a lot of DOs applying and getting accepted to these programs. I don't think FMGs are the concern or major factor here. And yes there are some very competitive and impressive DOs applying for these spots.
 
MountainEM said:
I don't think DO students are included in the NRMP's "US seniors" group. There are a lot of DOs applying and getting accepted to these programs.
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I assumed that if a DO was applying to a residency through the match, they would be included in NRMP statistics.
 
I think they are including in the stats just not as a "US senior" from what I understand.
 
MountainEM said:
I think they are including in the stats just not as a "US senior" from what I understand.
Click to expand...

+1

As a DO that applied this year, I've scrutinized the stats in the past, and DOs are considered independent applicants. US Seniors refers only to US MD seniors.
 
MountainEM said:
I think they are including in the stats just not as a "US senior" from what I understand.
Click to expand...

Looks like 1561 DOs matched into one specialty or another. Some small fraction of those represent EM matches. You are right, of course, that DOs are matching but the percentage taking PGY-1 EM spots must be pretty small.

BFqtr.png
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Also, what accounts for 789 withdrawing? Why would people do that? And no rank list? Does that imply they didn't interview anywhere so they could not rank any programs? Sorry for the match newbie questions. The table footnote points out that unmatched could refer to those who really did not match or those who matched into PGY-2 positions.
 
They either matched in the DO match, prematched, or didn't receive any interviews (which is probably the smallest portion of them). A LOT of people from my school originally applied to both AOA and ACGME residencies and made the decision later of which one to enter based on interview invites.
 
NewAndImproved said:
Looks like 1561 DOs matched into one specialty or another. Some small fraction of those represent EM matches. You are right, of course, that DOs are matching but the percentage taking PGY-1 EM spots must be pretty small.

BFqtr.png
BFqtr.png


Also, what accounts for 789 withdrawing? Why would people do that? And no rank list? Does that imply they didn't interview anywhere so they could not rank any programs? Sorry for the match newbie questions. The table footnote points out that unmatched could refer to those who really did not match or those who matched into PGY-2 positions.
Click to expand...

The osteopathic match is earlier. If they are matched into a DO program, they are automatically withdrawn from the allo match.

How competitive are the IM/EM Programs?
 
NewAndImproved said:
Also, what accounts for 789 withdrawing? Why would people do that? And no rank list? Does that imply they didn't interview anywhere so they could not rank any programs? Sorry for the match newbie questions. The table footnote points out that unmatched could refer to those who really did not match or those who matched into PGY-2 positions.
Click to expand...

Another reason to withdraw is Canadian match, which is the week before US MD match (2 kids from my school)

Another friend in my class interviewed and was all set to make her rank list. Then *wham* found out she's preggers... So she never submitted one.
 
So I never really thought about this until today, but what do people do if they don't match?

I guess you first try to scramble (SOAP) into EM.
After that, how about prelim spots vs. research?

Hopefully I'll have no reason to think about this come next Monday, but I want to give it a little thought just in case.

I really have no interest at all in doing a prelim year.
 
Unfilled positions and match results for the last few years is all public knowledge, posted on the NRMP site.

In 2011, there were 5 unfilled positions:
East Carolina - 3
U. Puerto Rico - 2

In 2010, there were 16 unfilled positions:
Sparrow Hospital - 4
UNLV - 2
NY Methodist - 1
Staten Island - 7
U. Puerto Rico - 2

In 2009, there were 13 unfilled positions:
Sparrow Hospital - 4
Grand Rapids - 1
Genesys Regional - 5
Lehigh Valley - 2
U. Puerto Rico - 1

In 2008, there were 30 unfilled positions:
U. Mississippi - 1
Yale - 2
Florida - 3
William Beaumont - 1
Newark Beth Israel - 2
Mt. Sinai - 4
NY Methodist - 1
Buffalo - 2
East Carolina - 4
Summa Health - 2
Penn St. - 5
Thomas Jefferson - 3

Scrambling is getting harder.
 
xaelia said:
Scrambling is getting harder.
Click to expand...

With that trend of numbers, chances of getting EM in the scramble look increasingly miniscule, but at least with the new SOAP system the luck factor gets taken out of the game. No more having unmatched applicants rope ten friends into dialling numbers repeatedly hoping to get through and having programs pressured to grab folk as fast as and randomly as possible. More time to deliberate on applicants and choices, less of a panic to just take whatever and whomever.

This sucks of course for anybody who fails to match this year into EM and hopes to land a TY or a good prelim. Pre-lim programs prefer two types of applicants: those who have advanced spots, and those interested in family/medicine/surgery who could potentially stay on the hospital year 2 in a catagorical position. Reapplicants to EM/something else take a distant third in preferance, no one wants someone just passing through and needing tons of time for interviews and traveling and scheduling rearrangement, no matter how good the applicant.

Be interesting to see how the whole system works out, certainly couldn't be worse than last year with East Carolina having the wrong phone number listed, the ERAS crashing after 30 min of already heavy lagging, the list of unmatched locations never even going on-line.

Baffling why some applicants would chose not to rank a program and risk this kinda nonsense.
 
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xaelia said:
Unfilled positions and match results for the last few years is all public knowledge, posted on the NRMP site.

In 2011, there were 5 unfilled positions:
East Carolina - 3
U. Puerto Rico - 2

In 2010, there were 16 unfilled positions:
Sparrow Hospital - 4
UNLV - 2
NY Methodist - 1
Staten Island - 7
U. Puerto Rico - 2

In 2009, there were 13 unfilled positions:
Sparrow Hospital - 4
Grand Rapids - 1
Genesys Regional - 5
Lehigh Valley - 2
U. Puerto Rico - 1

In 2008, there were 30 unfilled positions:
U. Mississippi - 1
Yale - 2
Florida - 3
William Beaumont - 1
Newark Beth Israel - 2
Mt. Sinai - 4
NY Methodist - 1
Buffalo - 2
East Carolina - 4
Summa Health - 2
Penn St. - 5
Thomas Jefferson - 3

Scrambling is getting harder.
Click to expand...

what happened in 2008? sounds like a goof up somewhere yale, sinai, methodist are all primo programs/or in NYC,
also that east carolina has so consistently not filled heard they're pretty nice from classmates who went
 
Same question as braves113....I interviewed at east Carolina and it seemed fine....actually pretty good. I was a little hesitant about it because I've seen the quoted stats above before. What does everyone else know about east Carolina that I don't?
 
I don't want to distract from Braves' question or NewAndImproved's question - as I am no longer an applicant - but here's another question:

The reasons why E. Carolina and even Yale had to scramble have been discussed elsewhere, but:

What about Mt. Sinai in 2008? With four spots?

That place is a bit narcisstic, but not more than most top notch programs...and it has a reason to be cocky.

What happened?

Rumors are OK...but some inside info would be nice.

HH
 
deuist said:
Just some ideas, but bad location, poor pass rate on the boards, and an unacceptably high number of residents quitting the program might have something to do with it.
Click to expand...

i'll second that... and the location is god-awful imho....
 
What's so poisonous about Sparrow ?

Wait, where the hell IS Sparrow ? Did I just answer my own question ?
 
deuist said:
Just some ideas, but bad location, poor pass rate on the boards, and an unacceptably high number of residents quitting the program might have something to do with it.
Click to expand...

Ahhh......totally legit reasons to have unfilled spots.

Where can I find out what percent of a program's residents fail their boards and how many residents have resigned?
 
deuist said:
Just some ideas, but bad location, poor pass rate on the boards, and an unacceptably high number of residents quitting the program might have something to do with it.
Click to expand...

Are you speaking just in general or specifically about East Carolina?
 
NewAndImproved said:
Where can I find out what percent of a program's residents fail their boards and how many residents have resigned?
Click to expand...

The programs report their pass rates to the RRC during their re-accreditation process.

It appears that http://match.emra.org/ has some of that data on each program somehow.

The rates are more or less just general "less than 90%", "90-95%", etc., but it's something.

It doesn't seem to publish any attrition statistics. Some mentions of attrition at various programs can be found by specifically searching the Emergency Medicine forum.
 
RustedFox said:
What's so poisonous about Sparrow ?

Wait, where the hell IS Sparrow ? Did I just answer my own question ?
Click to expand...

Good sized hospital and well organized program but yeah, four years in Lansing Mich kinda sucks.
 
i barely wanted to party with drunk undergrads when I was an undergrad... much less when i was a resident at the ages of 27-31! one of the 5 biggest cities in the country fit the bill far better!!

COL vs residency pay is a mystery that i will never understand. get paid more to be in greenville, NC than LA/SF/DC/Chicago??? insanity.
 
Quote: Sparrow is.... where ? , etc.

Any four-year program is poison to begin with. Four years in... southern Canada ?

Nevermind.
 
... and I just surfed the curriculum on the Sparrow website. Wow. Awful. Please, let me waste time doing things that I'll ultimately never do anything about, definitively....
 
RustedFox said:
... and I just surfed the curriculum on the Sparrow website. Wow. Awful. Please, let me waste time doing things that I'll ultimately never do anything about, definitively....
Click to expand...

There was a program I interviewed at that had a similar 4 year curriculum.
They didn't make my list...

I might regret that come next week, but I just couldn't stand the thought of doing all these rotations.
 
Well, one of my best friends somehow ranked it his number one out of his 13 interviews. Seems pretty happy with his training but the wife's pretty miserable.
 
gman33 said:
There was a program I interviewed at that had a similar 4 year curriculum.
They didn't make my list...

I might regret that come next week, but I just couldn't stand the thought of doing all these rotations.
Click to expand...

Sparrow is a three year not four
 
Sorry, it's a four year program for DO's, thought it were the same for MD. Newark Beth Israel's the same kinda silly.
 
Hamhock said:
What about Mt. Sinai in 2008? With four spots?

That place is a bit narcisstic, but not more than most top notch programs...and it has a reason to be cocky.

What happened?
HH
Click to expand...

I don't go there, but applied there after 2008 and am a resident at a nearby, more suburban residency, so have some knowledge of the program. It may have had something to do with their restructuring of the program which started around that time. Adjustment of the entire curriculum, introduction of a fellowship-minded track, and I know that they have had a large influx of academic-minded NYC based attendings. So all of that either was a response to the poor match rate at the time, or the transition status was the cause of it. Either way, I'd say Mt. Sinai would be my number one in NYC spot if I were to do residency again and if I were gungho about being in the city (which I'm not).
 
Redrox said:
Sorry, it's a four year program for DO's, thought it were the same for MD. Newark Beth Israel's the same kinda silly.
Click to expand...

I actually wish more of the dual MD/DO programs would have split 3/4 years programs. One of the places I interviewed was a 4 year place. A lot of the extra rotations seemed pretty useless to me. Besides that it was a pretty good program.
I just couldn't see doing an extra year and a bunch of stuff that I had no interest in.
Would have been somewhere in the middle of my list without this "fluff".
As it is, I didn't rank them.

My understanding is they need this stuff or at least the 4 year part as a DO program.
 
gman33 said:
I actually wish more of the dual MD/DO programs would have split 3/4 years programs. One of the places I interviewed was a 4 year place. A lot of the extra rotations seemed pretty useless to me. Besides that it was a pretty good program.
I just couldn't see doing an extra year and a bunch of stuff that I had no interest in.
Would have been somewhere in the middle of my list without this "fluff".
As it is, I didn't rank them.

My understanding is they need this stuff or at least the 4 year part as a DO program.
Click to expand...

You're absolutely right. While it's annoying and kinda insulting for a program to require two groups of residents to work two differant lengths of years, that's an AOA mandate and it is what it is. A mid-tier program forcing MD's to stay longer just for the sake of fairness just hurt the quality of matches.

Lehigh, another dual program, has some really great training and outstanding educators but it's four years for both DO and MD. Wonder how much more popular they'd get as 4/3 place.
 
Braves123 said:
what happened in 2008? sounds like a goof up somewhere yale, sinai, methodist are all primo programs/or in NYC,
also that east carolina has so consistently not filled heard they're pretty nice from classmates who went
Click to expand...

I am wondering the same thing they(ECU) would be a top place for me personally if I can't do their dual program?

any info would be appreciated.
 
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