Which Osteopathic School Is #1 Academically?

[ramsestiger]

Hey folks, I hope everyone is doing well. There are a few great choices, but which school do you think is the best (honestly)? If you consider avg. MCATs, avg. undergrad. GPAs, and avg. board scores during the medical education, which school can make the best case as the #1 D.O. school?

I would vote for KCOM, CCOM, MSUCOM or Touro. Of course, I don't have extensive knowledge for each school, so there are probably a lot of factors that I'm missing in my selections. There are some schools that are just starting out, so they could be great in time. Each school is obviously awesome in its own way, so no offense is intended toward anyone.

Here are the stats:

Arizona College of Osteopathic Medicine
# Applications: 3,000
# Interviewed: 350
Class Size: 125
Out of State: 65%
Tuition: $25,000
Student Fees: $1,620
GPA: 3.45
MCAT: Verbal ? 8.3 Physical ? 8.3 Biological ? 9.1


Western University of Health Sciences College of Osteopathic Medicine of the Pacific
# Applications: 2,910
# Interviewed: 436
Class Size: 180
Out of State: 22%
Tuition: $24,720
Student Fees: $665
GPA: 3.4
MCAT: Verbal ? 8.0 Physical ? 9.0 Biological ? 9.0


Touro University College of Osteopathic Medicine
# Applications: 1,298
# Interviewed: NA
Class Size: 96
Out of State: NA
Tuition: $25,000
Student Fees: $2,000
GPA: 3.5.
MCAT: Verbal ? 8.0 Physical ? 9.0 Biological ? 10.0


Nova Southeastern University Health Professional Division College of Osteopathic Medicine
# Applications: 2,850
# Interviewed: NA
Class Size: 180
Out of State: 42%
Tuition: Resident - $19,340 Non - $22,720
Student Fees: $100
GPA: 3.45
MCAT: Verbal ? 8.0 Physical ? 8.0 Biological ? 8.0

Chicago College of Osteopathic Medicine Midwestern
# Applications: 3,486
# Interviewed: 350
Class Size: 160
Out of State: 50%
Tuition: Resident - $21,938 Non - $26,645
Student Fees: $280
GPA: 3.5
MCAT: Verbal ? 9.0 Physical ? 9.0 Biological ? 10.0

Des Moines University College of Osteopathic Medicine and Surgery
# Applications: 2,600
# Interviewed: NA
Class Size: 205
Out of State: 76%
Tuition: $23,900
Student Fees: $75
GPA: 3.45
MCAT: Verbal ? 7.9 Physical ? 7.6 Biological ? 9.0


Pikeville College School of Osteopathic Medicine
# Applications: 1,798
# Interviewed: 120
Class Size: 62
Out of State: 52%
Tuition: $23,100
Student Fees: $0
GPA: 3.33
MCAT: Verbal ? 7.5 Physical ? 7.1 Biological ? 7.7

University of New England College of Osteopathic Medicine
# Applications: 849
# Interviewed: NA
Class Size: 115
Out of State: 51%
Tuition: $26,220
Student Fees: $260
GPA: 3.38
MCAT: Verbal ? 8.5 Physical ? 7.8 Biological ? 8.7


Michigan State University College of Osteopathic Medicine
# Applications: 3,080
# Interviewed: NA
Class Size: 123
Out of State: 10%
Tuition: Resident - $15, 432 Non - $32,829
Student Fees: $900
GPA: 3.3
MCAT: Verbal ? 8.6 Physical ? 8.7 Biological ? 8.8


Kirksville College of Osteopathic Medicine
# Applications: 4,577
# Interviewed: 458
Class Size: 145
Out of State: 90%
Tuition: $24,400
Student Fees: NR
GPA: 3.41
MCAT: Verbal ? 9.0 Physical ? 9.0 Biological ? 9.5


University of Health Sciences College of Osteopathic Medicine
# Applications: 3,060
# Interviewed: 430
Class Size: 220
Out of State: 83%
Tuition: $27,775
Student Fees: $50
GPA: 3.5
MCAT: Verbal ? 8.4 Physical ? 8.1 Biological ? 8.8


University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey School of Osteopathic Medicine
# Applications: 2,112
# Interviewed: NA
Class Size: 75
Out of State: 20%
Tuition: Resident - $14,492 Non - $22,679
Student Fees: $1,550
GPA: 3.5
MCAT: Verbal ? 8.6 Physical ? 8.4 Biological ? 8.8


New York College of Osteopathic Medicine New York Institute of Technology
# Applications: 3,161
# Interviewed: 540
Class Size: 250
Out of State: 17%
Tuition: $24,000
Student Fees: $726
GPA: 3.45
MCAT: Verbal ? 7.4 Physical ? 8.4 Biological ? 8.7


Ohio University College of Osteopathic Medicine
# Applications: 2,467
# Interviewed: NA
Class Size: 100
Out of State: 8%
Tuition: Resident - $10,929 Non - $10,929
Student Fees: Resident - $1,065 Non - $5,000
GPA: 3.5
MCAT: Verbal ? 8.2 Physical ? 8.1 Biological ? 8.7


Oklahoma State University College of Osteopathic Medicine
# Applications: 1,342
# Interviewed: NA
Class Size: 88
Out of State: 14%
Tuition: Resident - $9,552 Non - $24,244
Student Fees: $836
GPA: 3.53
MCAT: Verbal ? 8.9 Physical ? 8.1 Biological ? 8.3


Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine
# Applications: 3,350
# Interviewed: 600
Class Size: 144
Out of State: 36%
Tuition: Resident - $21,760 Non - $22,760
Student Fees: $1,000
GPA: 3.3
MCAT: Verbal ? 7.9 Physical ? 7.6 Biological ?8.1


Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine
# Applications: 4,280
# Interviewed: 690
Class Size: 256
Out of State: 35%
Tuition: $23,500
Student Fees: $225
GPA: 3.33
MCAT: Verbal ? 8.1 Physical ? 8.0 Biological ? 8.5


University of North Texas Health Science Center at Fort Worth
# Applications: 1,485
# Interviewed: 300
Class Size: 115
Out of State: 10%
Tuition: Resident - $6,550 Non - $2,110
Student Fees: $780
GPA: 3.6
MCAT: Verbal ? 7.4 Physical ? 8.7 Biological ? 9.3


West Virginia School of Osteopathic Medicine
# Applications: 1,630
# Interviewed: NA
Class Size: 75
Out of State: 33%
Tuition: Resident - $11,490 Non - $28,990
Student Fees: $1660
GPA: 3.4
MCAT: Verbal ? 7.9 Physical ? 6.9 Biological ? 7.3

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[LukeWhite]

Hm. I'm not sure undergrad MCAT/GPA is a terribly indicative factor of a school's academic quality except in a very indirect fashion. While most ranking systems do include "entrance stats," it seems to me that exit stats are the only quantitative measures of any value. What does it matter if someone had a sub-par GPA and MCAT coming in, if they ace the COMLEX and USMLE?

One could even make the argument that a more telling metric of academic quality would be the DIFFERENCE between GPA/MCAT and USMLE scores. If a school takes a relatively low entry base, judging by GPA and MCAT, and converts it to a relatively high aggregate board score, I'd be more impressed than if a school starts out with high scorers and ends up with the same.

Using that criterion, I'd put AZCOM and Kirksville right at the top. They both have relatively low entrance stats, but massively outperform many allopathic schools. It's arguable that AZCOM at least does this through a relatively new curriculum that teaches to the boards (while Kirksville seems to accomplish it through sheer, maniacal excellence) but if the boards are valid measures of academic performance, it would make sense to judge an academic curriculum by how closely it follows the board-tested material.

Of course, it all become a little trickier for clinical years, but I think at least for the first two years a set of stats comparinng entrance to exit statistics versus the national average would turn out a few surprises when it comes to the best programs from a purely academic, rather than student-body, standpoint.

 

[Fenrezz]

Gotta be OSU. You can get straight A's here and not make the top 10% of the class. All A's and one B doesn't guarantee you a top 25%. You can only imagine what a slacker like me is ranked in this place. I actually laughed out loud when I saw where I was. It's insane.

Too many overachievers here, and not enough people who don't give a rat's ass about their GPA (as long as it's passing). I need to surround myself with people as dumb as me.

 

[ramsestiger]

luke - you brought up some good points, but I disagree with you for the most part. Let's say school X attracts THE worst students in the country, but school X helps most of them pass their board exams with competitive scores. Does that mean school X is better than an institution like Harvard Medical School that both attracts great students AND has a very good record for board exams?

I think entrance stats tell a lot about a school - not everything, but they tell a lot. Of course, you're always going to have one or two oddballs with even 42 MCATs at school X, but it can't reasonably be labeled the #1 academic school in the country. In time, school X's reputation would improve, but it would have a long, long way to go before it would even come close to Harvard.

Academic reputation has to be earned, and one of the best indicators of the amount of earned respect is the quality of students that the school attracts. Of course, there's nothing wrong with school X, but it certainly hasn't earned the respect among incoming students or its entrance stats would be much better.

My overall argument could be applied to D.O. vs. M.D. schools, also. Right now, both D.O. and M.D. students are respected, but the M.D. students are held in slightly higher regard because of entrance stats. That's something that the osteopathic community has to combat. We have to find out why a lot of the best students aren't even considering the D.O. route and try to change that. I am guessing that it has a lot to do with the perceived reputation of the different schools. We have to change that through superior board performances, better medical practices and by improving the academic reputation of D.O. schools.

Overall, a school's recruiting prowess among the better students is a good indicator of academic reputation, IMHO.

 

[mcataz]

Gotta be OSU. You can get straight A's here and not make the top 10% of the class. All A's and one B doesn't guarantee you a top 25%. You can only imagine what a slacker like me is ranked in this place. I actually laughed out loud when I saw where I was. It's insane.

Too many overachievers here, and not enough people who don't give a rat's ass about their GPA (as long as it's passing). I need to surround myself with people as dumb as me.

If everyone is getting A's at OSU, that's a bad sign. It just means your school is utilizing good ole fashioned grade inflation. As far as the calibre of OSU students, I would have to disagree. I grew up in Oklahoma and personally know many people who attended there. I'm a post bacc at AZCOM and I can tell you that the calibre of students attending and applying to AZCOM far outweighs most students at OSU. If you are an Oklahoma resident, you can get into OSUCOM with very weak scores. If I didn't attend this post-bacc program, I wouldn't have a chance at AZCOM and I have a decent scores. If I claimed residency in Oklahoma, I have a good chance of getting into OSU but I don't want to live in Tulsa.

However, I do think OSU is an awesome school. And I might even give it the nod over AZCOM academically because of it's affiliated teaching hospital and curriculum. OSU actually looks and feels like a regular medical school unlike many DO schools.

To answer the question, I would probably say Michigan St. since it's the most recognized by U.S. News and World Report. U.S. News is a very subjective scale but it's pretty much the closest thing you have to ranking osteopathic schools.

 

[mcataz]

ramsestiger

I think you started on a good point but you didn't think it all the way through. Yes, Harvard has the high entrance stats. However, did you notice that they also boast the highest board passing rates and scores as well. So, in this example, there is a direct correlation between entrance stats and board scores.

However, if one school has amazing entrance stats but only average to above average board scores and placement statistics, then those entrance stats don't mean anything. Students will not be drawn to that school.

And it's possible to have the brightest students with the weakest boards. Some programs are board oriented and they prepare their students better for the boards than others. Some schools can get so involved with excess material and theoretical concepts, which are not applicable to the boards and practical medicine.

 

[DrMom]

Originally posted by mcataz
If everyone is getting A's at OSU, that's a bad sign. It just means your school is utilizing good ole fashioned grade inflation. As far as the calibre of OSU students, I would have to disagree. ...... If you are an Oklahoma resident, you can get into OSUCOM with very weak scores.

I can see why it appears that way, but it really isn't true. Our class has the highest entering stats of any at OSU and our stats are higher than OU's. Several of the professors repeatedly told us that they had to keep making our tests harder than the past years' because we were doing so well. We also didn't get bonus points and thrown out questions like past years have. Our class truly is doing well on its own merits.

As to getting into OSU with low stats if you are in-state, that may have been true in the past, but it really isn't now. Of course there are a few with lower stats, but not that many. Also, there are so many applicants for the 88 total slots that you have to stand out in some way. The school recently had an open house for upcoming applicants and told them that they would probably be wasting their time if they were to apply with less than a 27 on the MCAT. Trust me, things are changing around here.

 

[mcataz]

OSU is an excellent school and it's definitely one of the top DO schools. But I think some of your claims are a bit outrageous. Not to nitpick but I know a lot of potential applicants are reading this, so I decided to post some URL's in case they don't believe us. I don't want to go by hearsay alone.

Our class has the highest entering stats of any at OSU

Not exactly, North Texas overall GPA is 3.54 to OSU's 3.5 overall. And their overall science GPA is 3.46 to OSU's 3.42. OSU's MCAT is higher at 8.9 compared to North Texas 8.76. OSU is definitely at the top but their stats are equal to if not less than the best osteopathich schools. TUCOM's stats are also comparable.(overall 3.5, science 3.4, MCAT 9)

http://www.tucom.edu/admissions.htm

http://www.hsc.unt.edu/education/tcom/Admissions.cfm

our stats are higher than OU's.

OSU's overall GPA is a 3.5 w/ science average of 3.42. Their MCAT average is a 8.9.

OU's overall GPA was a 3.72 and their MCAT average was 9.56.

Keep in mind that AMCAS(MD) doesn't compute repeated grades like ACOMAS (DO) so OU's GPA would probably be higher if they accounted for second attempts or repeats in the GPA.
OSU
http://www.healthsciences.okstate.edu/center/student/matrprofile.htm

OU
http://www.medicine.ouhsc.edu

Also, there are so many applicants for the 88 total slots that you have to stand out in some way.

1075 total applicants applied of which 827 were out of state. 248 Oklahoma residents applied. Of those 248 Oklahoma residents, 151 were granted interviews and 76 were accepted. So 76 out of 248 Oklahoma grads were accepted. 60% of Oklahoma residents were interviewed. That's quite high. That's nearly a 31% acceptance rate if you are an Oklahoma resident. So they aren't choosing from as big of a talent pool as you might think.

AZCOM selects 135 students out of a pool of a little over 2000 applicants. Touro had similar numbers with 125 spots for over 2300 applicants. We are a private school so we get more applicants.

http://www.midwestern.edu/azcom/

 

[San_Juan_Sun]

Originally posted by ramsestiger
Right now, both D.O. and M.D. students are respected, but the M.D. students are held in slightly higher regard because of entrance stats... Overall, a school's recruiting prowess among the better students is a good indicator of academic reputation, IMHO.

My first thought was "Who is holding these allo- students in 'higher regard'?" The only group that I could pinpoint is other pre-meds (which, of course, amounts to jack squat).

If we really want to talk about academic excellence, we need to talk about departments and professors. Come residency interviews, who your LORs are from matters a whole lot more than your class' MCAT and GPA four years previous.

 

[DrMom]

Originally posted by mcataz
OSU is an excellent school and it's definitely one of the top DO schools. But I think some of your claims are a bit outrageous. Not to nitpick but I know a lot of potential applicants are reading this, so I decided to post some URL's in case they don't believe us. I don't want to go by hearsay alone.



Not exactly, North Texas overall GPA is 3.54 to OSU's 3.5 overall. And their overall science GPA is 3.46 to OSU's 3.42. OSU's MCAT is higher at 8.9 compared to North Texas 8.76. OSU is definitely at the top but their stats are equal to if not less than the best osteopathich schools. TUCOM's stats are also comparable.(overall 3.5, science 3.4, MCAT 9)

http://www.tucom.edu/admissions.htm

http://www.hsc.unt.edu/education/tcom/Admissions.cfm



OSU's overall GPA is a 3.5 w/ science average of 3.42. Their MCAT average is a 8.9.

OU's overall GPA was a 3.72 and their MCAT average was 9.56.

Keep in mind that AMCAS(MD) doesn't compute repeated grades like ACOMAS (DO) so OU's GPA would probably be higher if they accounted for second attempts or repeats in the GPA.
OSU
http://www.healthsciences.okstate.edu/center/student/matrprofile.htm

OU
http://www.medicine.ouhsc.edu



1075 total applicants applied of which 827 were out of state. 248 Oklahoma residents applied. Of those 248 Oklahoma residents, 151 were granted interviews and 76 were accepted. So 76 out of 248 Oklahoma grads were accepted. 60% of Oklahoma residents were interviewed. That's quite high. That's nearly a 31% acceptance rate if you are an Oklahoma resident. So they aren't choosing from as big of a talent pool as you might think.

AZCOM selects 135 students out of a pool of a little over 2000 applicants. Touro had similar numbers with 125 spots for over 2300 applicants. We are a private school so we get more applicants.

http://www.midwestern.edu/azcom/

Gosh, for someone who didn't want to nitpick

Please note that you listed stats for the class ahead of mine, therefore they are not at all what I was referring to. I was talking about my class being the highest one at OSU thus far. I wouldn't be surprised if the next one surpasses us (in fact, I'm assuming that they will).

I also never compared OSU to any other DO school. You made that leap yourself. I only compared my class to this year's OU class. With that in mind, I really don't see how my statements were so outrageous.

I have asked the admissions office about posting the stats for my class and they have said that they haven't gotten around to it. Go figure! Anyways, my info about our class having higher stats than this year's OU class came directly from the admissions office. As to the whole thing about them wanting new applicants to have a 27 on the MCAT, I got that from an applicant that attended the open house.

I hope that clears things up. I didn't intend to rile any feathers, but I really wasn't making anything up.

 

[mcataz]

Sorry, Doctormom. I misread you. I assumed you were talking about previous classes. I would be more than interested to see you post stats for your class when they come out.

 

[DrMom]

No problem.

If I can ever get my hands on the actual numbers I'll be happy to share them. Thus far, the admissions office has only spoken in the generalities that I have passed along already.

 

[LukeWhite]

I'd agree that entrance stats do have some predictive value, but only when comparing schools such as you did: outliers and "regular" schools. If we're comparing osteopathic schools, and perhaps even throwing in some similar allos for good measure, I don't think that entrance stats make much of a difference.

The basic argument for using entrance stats to gauge a school's academic caliber is classic supply and demand. The school provides the product, applicants the demand. If a seat at a school is more highly sought after, the price, e.g. GPA/MCAT will increase per unit.

This only makes sense when we've got perfect market conditions, though, which = perfect knowledge. While this might be the case when comparing ?COM and Harvard (everyone KNOWS Harvard is better) it's not the case when comparing the osteopathics to themselves. As this thread shows, there's no knowledge of which seat is more valuable, and so entrance stats reflect dozens of other factors: what people THINK is a better school, how new the facilities are, weather, family, whether the interviewer was nice, etc. Nobody's going to turn down Harvard because they don't like Boston winters; lots of people will turn down UNE becasue they don't like Maine winters.

So we've got a "price" which doesn't depend too much on the academics of the product. When the students get in, though, THEY are the product, and the school's a factory. At this point, I think that the best way to judge the academics is by measuring what the school has to work with and what it turns out.

But again, this doesn't work when the academic differences are obvious to everyone, because most people will choose a school that has undeniable academic superiority if they can. When the differences are smaller, though, as they seem to be for the vast majority of osteopathic schools, we need something else. I bet that GPA and MCAT at osteo schools would correlate better to weather and newness of facilities than it would to ultimate board scores.

 

[ramsestiger]

luke - I'll agree with you there. However, I never underestimate the power of a better academic reputation. IMHO, the better students usually tend to gravitate toward the better schools, but I can certainly see your argument is sound, also.

In any case, I think the academic reputation of a school certainly improves if/when it starts attracting the "better" students. That's why recruiting advantages like California weather are really kind of unfair!

 

[kristing]

Ok - the original poster asked the question "Which Osteopathic School is #1 Academically"?

How on earth can you compare students' MCAT scores and undergrad gpa's to a current school's academic performance? That totally doesn't make any sense.

If anything, the school that takes the students with the lowest gpas and MCATs and then has the highest Board scores on step one would be the school that had been the MOST effective academically, wouldn't you think?

Now to say which school attracts the best and the brightest and then use MCATS and undergrad gpas as a comparison, that may have some merit.

And I don't think that Harvard is better. They don't teach OMM. Just my opinion.

Kristin
MS2 AZCOM

 

[ArmyDoc_DMU2007]

I'm just curious what everyone thinks about DMU. I ended up picking DMU just by location because I really liked Des Moines. I keep hearing people throw around KCOM's and AZCOM's name and it makes me wonder if I made some wrong decisions. I turned down an interview at KCOM and NSUCOM and I turned down an acceptance at UHS which has a 50% specialization rate. I also originally started to apply to AZCOM and CCOM but then decided against them. So basically, those are all the DO schools I applied to and I'm wondering what you guys think. Did I make a blunder in my application decisions and did I screw up with my final decision on DMU? I know DMU is well known for OMM but I really don't know what people think of it's basic medicine and rotations. Please feel free to let me know what you think of this situation. Later!

 

[Stump]

What about UHS? You always hear about KCOM, AZCOM, or NYCOM, but what is the general consensus about UHS?? Just wondering.......

 

[ArmyDoc_DMU2007]

Originally posted by Stump
What about UHS? You always hear about KCOM, AZCOM, or NYCOM, but what is the general consensus about UHS?? Just wondering.......

Well, I'll tell you what I think. I thought it was an awesome school. They have a larger percentage of students getting specialty residencies(DO and MD; and some very nice ones I may add) and they have very nice facilities. The down side is that the facilities are squeezed onto a very small campus and the neighborhood isn't that great. Also, if you're single and young like myself you probably won't like the avg. age and marital status of students there. I really don't know how it compares to other schools but I thought it was a pretty good school. So tell me what you think of DMU.

 

[jhug]

i applied/was accepted to both dmu and uhs (ironically i'm going to azcom) and would tell you that you did NOT make a mistake. You interviewed, felt good about your respective school, were excited to be accepted, and like anything in life-- with hard work, DMU or UHS will take you where you want to go. I really (personally) don't believe it makes that big of a difference WHERE we all attend, more WHAT we do while in school. DMU has had matches at Hopkins....so has AZCOM (and i'm sure UHS-- i just don't know)
Anyone could/will tell you why their school is better than another-- who really cares??? YOU LIKED DMU/UHS!! that is all that really matters in the end. I think all the reputation fluff is just that--FLUFF! used to boost the egos of those in anyway associated to the fluff. If you rotate and impress the scrubs off those you work with-- you will open doors....if you rotate and base all you do on the reputation of where you're from i think (again, personally) you will be disappointed.

To the original question---if you accept the "best", should you provide anything less than the best? If you accept the "worst", are you expected to provide anything better than the worst? IMHO, the "best" academic school is one that is able to create the greatest amount of great doctors...in the end that is all that matters. What good is a school that accepts the "best" and does relatively nothing with what they have?

 

[mcataz]

luke - I'll agree with you there. However, I never underestimate the power of a better academic reputation. IMHO, the better students usually tend to gravitate toward the better schools, but I can certainly see your argument is sound, also.

But it starts with what the school can provide. Harvard is the oldest university in the country. It has the most resources in addition to a great reputation. Therefore, the demand for the school is high, which enables Harvard to pick from the brightest students available. Yes, The better students gravitate toward the better schools. But the better schools are ones that provide them the most.

Why on earth would anyone want to be among students with high MCAT scores and GPA's. It would hurt your class rank and the competition would be fierce. The only reason why I or any sane person would endure such competition is if the school provided something in return. Everyone knows that if you finish at the bottom of Harvard's class, you will still match for top residencies. The same can applied to many other Ivy's. But I'm not going to attend AZCOM if the average GPA is 3.8 and MCAT is 36 if their board scores and placement stats don't provide a significant edge over other DO schools. Why would why I endure a class of gunners like that if I can help it?

In the long run, you could be right. It only makes sense that the school with students with the higest GPA and MCAT will naturally do better on the boards and thus earn a reputation among hospitals. However, that's not always the case. Some schools do a better job of preparing students for the boards than other DO schools with higher GPA's and MCAT's.

 

[kristing]

This is a very nice civilized discussion among people who may disagree on some things. I (stupidly) meandered into the allopathic section and looked at the osteopathic medicine thread and eek - those people have some deep seeded self inadequacy issues. So it's nice to see we can discuss a hot topic and be civilized to one another.

I will never go over to the allopathic section again. Meanies.

 

[Tammy]

I agree with you Kristin! It's like walking into a cat fight on the allo thread! pfft pfft!

I have to put in my two cents about UHS...although let me say first that I think the most important reason to choose your school is based on where you feel the most comfortable. For some it's location, for others it's reputation, etc. etc.

I'm a first year at UHS and LOVE it! The instructors are awesome, the students are supportive and like a family. I can't speak for the rotations yet, but I know with the new curriculum, the COMLEX scores surpassed previous classes and the national average. And heck, we're on spring break, so what's not to love right now???

Anyway, I think it doesn't matter where you go as long as you feel like you fit in and the curriculum suits your learning style.

Happy Spring Break everyone! Hope you're enjoying your time off...I know I am!!!

- Tammy

 

[DrQuinn]

No one can say with any certainty what DO school has the highest reputation academically.

Look at the "objective" US News and World Report medical school survey that comes out every year. Does the #1 school really make the best doctors?

Most people who aren't part of the media do not think so.

As a 4th year DO student who finds out where I match in... 15 minutes... it doesn't matter where you go to school or what your class's GPA is.

Reputation of a DO school doesn't mean SQUAT when you apply for residency (trust me, I'm matching in MD Emergency Medicine, very competitive). What matters is your individual application. When you are among the 900 applicants for 10 EM residency spots at a hospital, they dont' care where you went to med school.

Q

 

[AUdacious]

GOOD LUCK QUINN - and everyone else about to find out as well!!!

 

[PublicHealth]

GOOD LUCK QUINN! Let us know where you matched!

By the way, who's that in your icon? She looks cute!

PH

 

[mcataz]

I think the cool thing about osteopathic schools is that they are all very similar overall in terms of quality and teaching. I don't think you can go wrong by attending one DO school over the other.

If you are going to attend an osteopathic school, I would say the first criteria you should look at is money. If you are an Oklahoma resident and currently living there, then it would be best if you attend OSU because of the reduced tuition. The same applies to Texas.

Second, you should attend a school in an environment you are most comfortable in. Having friends and family close by is important. For example, I love AZCOM and my friends and family are nearby. So I would prefer to attend here. However, if someone is from the East Coast, I would probably encourage them to attend a school closer to them like PCOM. I don't think AZCOM and PCOM are significantly different. Likewise, if you are from the Bay area, go to TUCOM despite it being in Valejo.

Third, look at the rates of passing and scores for the COMLEX and the USMLE. Obviously, this stat will favor AZCOM. However, if other schools boast rates that are very close to AZCOM's success (which I'm sure they are), then go there. If 90% are passing, that's pretty darn good. It doesn't have to be 100%. I would just worry if it fell below that. Then I would start to question the curriculum.

In other words, the location, and cost should be your major criteria when attending an osteopathich school since most of them are very similiar to one another academically.

 

[DrQuinn]

Thanks for all the good luck wishes. I did get my first choice, the University of South Florida, Tampa General Hospital.

Academics, schmacademics. I go to NSUCOM (which no one has mentioned on here), matched at my #1 choice in a VERY competitive field (Emergency medicine) at an MD institution that is relatively unfriendly to DOs.

Q

 

[ramsestiger]

I'll paste these stats in the initial post, also, so anyone who wants to evaluate the deal that each school offers could do it via the use of this thread.


Arizona College of Osteopathic Medicine
# Applications: 3,000
# Interviewed: 350
Class Size: 125
Out of State: 65%
Tuition: $25,000
Student Fees: $1,620
GPA: 3.45
MCAT: Verbal ? 8.3 Physical ? 8.3 Biological ? 9.1


Western University of Health Sciences College of Osteopathic Medicine of the Pacific
# Applications: 2,910
# Interviewed: 436
Class Size: 180
Out of State: 22%
Tuition: $24,720
Student Fees: $665
GPA: 3.4
MCAT: Verbal ? 8.0 Physical ? 9.0 Biological ? 9.0


Touro University College of Osteopathic Medicine
# Applications: 1,298
# Interviewed: NA
Class Size: 96
Out of State: NA
Tuition: $25,000
Student Fees: $2,000
GPA: 3.5.
MCAT: Verbal ? 8.0 Physical ? 9.0 Biological ? 10.0


Nova Southeastern University Health Professional Division College of Osteopathic Medicine
# Applications: 2,850
# Interviewed: NA
Class Size: 180
Out of State: 42%
Tuition: Resident - $19,340 Non - $22,720
Student Fees: $100
GPA: 3.45
MCAT: Verbal ? 8.0 Physical ? 8.0 Biological ? 8.0

Chicago College of Osteopathic Medicine Midwestern
# Applications: 3,486
# Interviewed: 350
Class Size: 160
Out of State: 50%
Tuition: Resident - $21,938 Non - $26,645
Student Fees: $280
GPA: 3.5
MCAT: Verbal ? 9.0 Physical ? 9.0 Biological ? 10.0

Des Moines University College of Osteopathic Medicine and Surgery
# Applications: 2,600
# Interviewed: NA
Class Size: 205
Out of State: 76%
Tuition: $23,900
Student Fees: $75
GPA: 3.45
MCAT: Verbal ? 7.9 Physical ? 7.6 Biological ? 9.0


Pikeville College School of Osteopathic Medicine
# Applications: 1,798
# Interviewed: 120
Class Size: 62
Out of State: 52%
Tuition: $23,100
Student Fees: $0
GPA: 3.33
MCAT: Verbal ? 7.5 Physical ? 7.1 Biological ? 7.7

University of New England College of Osteopathic Medicine
# Applications: 849
# Interviewed: NA
Class Size: 115
Out of State: 51%
Tuition: $26,220
Student Fees: $260
GPA: 3.38
MCAT: Verbal ? 8.5 Physical ? 7.8 Biological ? 8.7


Michigan State University College of Osteopathic Medicine
# Applications: 3,080
# Interviewed: NA
Class Size: 123
Out of State: 10%
Tuition: Resident - $15, 432 Non - $32,829
Student Fees: $900
GPA: 3.3
MCAT: Verbal ? 8.6 Physical ? 8.7 Biological ? 8.8


Kirksville College of Osteopathic Medicine
# Applications: 4,577
# Interviewed: 458
Class Size: 145
Out of State: 90%
Tuition: $24,400
Student Fees: NR
GPA: 3.41
MCAT: Verbal ? 9.0 Physical ? 9.0 Biological ? 9.5


University of Health Sciences College of Osteopathic Medicine
# Applications: 3,060
# Interviewed: 430
Class Size: 220
Out of State: 83%
Tuition: $27,775
Student Fees: $50
GPA: 3.5
MCAT: Verbal ? 8.4 Physical ? 8.1 Biological ? 8.8


University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey School of Osteopathic Medicine
# Applications: 2,112
# Interviewed: NA
Class Size: 75
Out of State: 20%
Tuition: Resident - $14,492 Non - $22,679
Student Fees: $1,550
GPA: 3.5
MCAT: Verbal ? 8.6 Physical ? 8.4 Biological ? 8.8


New York College of Osteopathic Medicine New York Institute of Technology
# Applications: 3,161
# Interviewed: 540
Class Size: 250
Out of State: 17%
Tuition: $24,000
Student Fees: $726
GPA: 3.45
MCAT: Verbal ? 7.4 Physical ? 8.4 Biological ? 8.7


Ohio University College of Osteopathic Medicine
# Applications: 2,467
# Interviewed: NA
Class Size: 100
Out of State: 8%
Tuition: Resident - $10,929 Non - $10,929
Student Fees: Resident - $1,065 Non - $5,000
GPA: 3.5
MCAT: Verbal ? 8.2 Physical ? 8.1 Biological ? 8.7


Oklahoma State University College of Osteopathic Medicine
# Applications: 1,342
# Interviewed: NA
Class Size: 88
Out of State: 14%
Tuition: Resident - $9,552 Non - $24,244
Student Fees: $836
GPA: 3.53
MCAT: Verbal ? 8.9 Physical ? 8.1 Biological ? 8.3


Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine
# Applications: 3,350
# Interviewed: 600
Class Size: 144
Out of State: 36%
Tuition: Resident - $21,760 Non - $22,760
Student Fees: $1,000
GPA: 3.3
MCAT: Verbal ? 7.9 Physical ? 7.6 Biological ?8.1


Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine
# Applications: 4,280
# Interviewed: 690
Class Size: 256
Out of State: 35%
Tuition: $23,500
Student Fees: $225
GPA: 3.33
MCAT: Verbal ? 8.1 Physical ? 8.0 Biological ? 8.5


University of North Texas Health Science Center at Fort Worth
# Applications: 1,485
# Interviewed: 300
Class Size: 115
Out of State: 10%
Tuition: Resident - $6,550 Non - $2,110
Student Fees: $780
GPA: 3.6
MCAT: Verbal ? 7.4 Physical ? 8.7 Biological ? 9.3


West Virginia School of Osteopathic Medicine
# Applications: 1,630
# Interviewed: NA
Class Size: 75
Out of State: 33%
Tuition: Resident - $11,490 Non - $28,990
Student Fees: $1660
GPA: 3.4
MCAT: Verbal ? 7.9 Physical ? 6.9 Biological ? 7.3

 

[DrMom]

Originally posted by ramsestiger

Oklahoma State University College of Osteopathic Medicine
# Applications: 1,342
# Interviewed: NA
Class Size: 88
Out of State: 14%
Tuition: Resident - $9,552 Non - $24,244
Student Fees: $836
GPA: 3.53
MCAT: Verbal ? 8.9 Physical ? 8.1 Biological ? 8.3

Old stats
Tuition, fees, GPA, & MCAT are all higher than listed here.

 

[rockstar]

I had to make a decision between 6 DO schools to decide where to go..NYCOM, PCOM, NOVA , KCOM, UNE and CCOM.

I attended up accepting at CCOM because the midwest is a great place for a DO to practice and get great hands on experience oppossed to other parts of the country. ALso, after looking at everything about all the schools possible for over a month it seemed like CCOM had all the best stats and no one ever had a bad thing to say about it, oppossed to some other schools.
Just thought this may help someone else trying to decide.

 

[jon62781]

As for OSU's pass rates on the boards, they far surpass the pass rates of OU, our local allopathic school. As for the entrance numbers, OSU's may be a little lower, but that doesn't mean anything. I know several people at OU's Class of 2006, and only one of them had the proper people skills to be associated with the medical field.

 

[DrMom]

Originally posted by jon62781
As for OSU's pass rates on the boards, they far surpass the pass rates of OU, our local allopathic school. As for the entrance numbers, OSU's may be a little lower, but that doesn't mean anything. I know several people at OU's Class of 2006, and only one of them had the proper people skills to be associated with the medical field.

OSU's class of 2006 is apparently the first one to have higher stats than the same class at OU. I doubt that its a huge difference, but ours are a bit higher. From what I've seen of OSU's class of 2007, I suspect they will outdo us.

 

[Fenrezz]

Originally posted by DrMom
From what I've seen of OSU's class of 2007, I suspect they will outdo us.

Stats shmats. I just hope the class of 2007 has hot chicks!

 

[ramsestiger]

Fenrezz:
Stats shmats. I just hope the class of 2007 has hot chicks!

I was thinking the same thing, but I didn't write it lest the intellectual young women in our field might take offense!

Of course, the aesthetic beauty of the medical students is a very, very important factor when considering where to go. I'll go to a Cambodian medical school if I meet the right woman to follow. That's an oxymoronic feeling because it's both sad and funny to me.

 

[Aberfly]

Originally posted by mcataz

To answer the question, I would probably say Michigan St. since it's the most recognized by U.S. News and World Report. U.S. News is a very subjective scale but it's pretty much the closest thing you have to ranking osteopathic schools.

I must respectfully disagree. I understand that U.S. News is the closest thing there is to a 'ranking' but their info must be taken with a grain of salt. Their rankings are based on reputation and research dollars. Research has nothing to do with how a school instructs their students. I would think reputation takes about 10 years to change in the eyes of national ranking systems. You could probably get a more accurate idea of schools by talking to people currently in the profession. Just a thought.

 

[mcataz]

I must respectfully disagree. I understand that U.S. News is the closest thing there is to a 'ranking' but their info must be taken with a grain of salt. Their rankings are based on reputation and research dollars. Research has nothing to do with how a school instructs their students. I would think reputation takes about 10 years to change in the eyes of national ranking systems. You could probably get a more accurate idea of schools by talking to people currently in the profession. Just a thought.

I agree with you 100%. Those rankings are based on criteria that are well........bunk. However, we as Americans enjoy ranking everything. I'm a huge movie buff and I was upset when AFI ranked its top 100 movies of all time. How can you rank film? Each movie is different and has something great to offer. How can you say that Citizen Kane is the best film of all time.

Nonetheless, I hate when people don't answer the question and they provide some p.c. response. So I decided to be un-p.c. and provide an answer, even if it was unscientific and very subjective.

Thus far, the only guide that I'm aware of which ranks osteopathic schools is U.S. News and World Report. So, I threw out Michigan St. But yeah, it doesn't mean anything to me. I would take AZCOM over Michigan St. any day.

 

[Aberfly]

Originally posted by mcataz

Nonetheless, I hate when people don't answer the question and they provide some p.c. response. So I decided to be un-p.c. and provide an answer, even if it was unscientific and very subjective.

Haha, no doubt you are right there. Good points all around.


I'll say KCOM in answer to the original question.

 

[DrIgor]

A good way to rank a school would be based on board performance.
As far as I know, the 2 schools which have the highest board passing rates are Oklahoma State Univ-COM and Univ. of Health Sciences-COM.
Igor

 

[kristing]

"A good way to rank a school would be based on board performance.
As far as I know, the 2 schools which have the highest board passing rates are Oklahoma State Univ-COM and Univ. of Health Sciences-COM."
Igor

Which step? Step 1? Step 2? AZCOM had 100% on Step 2 with its most recent class.

 

[mcataz]

Academics are an excellent measure to judge a medical school for obvious reasons. But keep in mind that board scores aren't everything.

Politics are important too. No one likes to bring up the dirty P word but it's true. A school that has good relationships with local hospitals is important. In addition, look at a school's match list. Programs eventually recognize a particular medical school, especially if they consistently match students from those schools over the years. That is very important especially when students have similar board scores. Programs that recognize your school will be most likely to take students from your school, assuming they are competitive of course. In this regard, the more established schools have an edge. And the newer DO schools will suffer in this area for obvious reasons.

Resources are important as well. Schools with it's own affiliated teaching hospital have an edge in my opinion. It just makes your life a lot easier. You can focus on what needs to be done instead of worrying about a lot of planning. Many will disagree and I can empathize with the opposing arguments as well.

Administration is something most students don't research. How receptive is a school to students' demands? Do they take care of you when it comes to setting up your rotations or is that pretty much left up to you? Is the school known for providing more resources upfront than other schools or do they make you pay for everything?

Student Body: This is another facet many people ignore but it is important. Do you function better in a more laid back environment? Or do you prefer to study in a more competitive environment because it brings out the best in you? What type of students do you prefer to study alongside? Do you get along better with conservative or liberal students etc? I think AZCOM is fairly moderate with it's leanings toward the liberal side. We aren't as liberal as TUCOM or CCOM, but we aren't as conservative as OSUCOM or TCOM. For example, two of our most prominent clubs on campus are the LDS (Mormons) and Rainbow Network(gay student union). It shows you how moderate our campus is in general.

All of these factors can influence your success as a medical student. Don't just focus on academic factors alone.

 

[shindog]

Originally posted by kristing
"A good way to rank a school would be based on board performance.
As far as I know, the 2 schools which have the highest board passing rates are Oklahoma State Univ-COM and Univ. of Health Sciences-COM."
Igor

Which step? Step 1? Step 2? AZCOM had 100% on Step 2 with its most recent class.

OSU: COMLEX1 and USMLE1- the test that counts.

 

[mountaindoc]

It is interesting that I stumbled upon this thread tonight, because I was having just this exact conversation with a friend of mine between classes today. I attend AZCOM. I am an MSII, and my friend, who is an MSI, was asking for advice on how best to spend his summer months. Should he start studying for boards, etc. Which led to the discussion about how our school has been scoring on the boards on so on and so forth. I'm pretty sure that for COMLEX 1, they 100, 100, 98, and 92 % for the first four classes. The numbers are dropping, but the class size is increasing. The first class had approx. 94 students, and now we are up to 145.

According to some of you, this is what defines excellence (that is what our administration thinks as well). But as many of you have brought up, there are many things which make a program excellent. And one thing that I have failed to see in any of these posts is how does the quality of the OMM teaching factor into the consideration of the quality of program. We do attend an osteopathic school after all. Unfortunately, there are many people who attend osteopathic schools, not because they embrace the ideals of what A.T. Still stood for, or the approach to medicine which may or may not be instilled in us by our instructors during these first 2 years, but simply because the standards of entrance are lower than in many of our allopathic counterparts.

With that said, I feel you need to ask yourself why you are asking this question in the first place. If you are looking for help in deciding where to go, go where it feels right. We do not have an affiliated hospital here, which is a major drag for your 3rd year clinical rotations. If you have a wife, significant other, or family, this may not be the "best" program for you, regardless of the reputation for board scores, you may have to travel around alot more than you want during your 3rd year. I haven't heard much about PCOM in this thread, and they have an excellent hospital, one of the few DO residencies I would consider on par with allopathic residencies. But does that make it a better program than ours? We also have very little research opportunities here, which is very important for getting into some residency programs. Have you considered that into your calculations? That could put programs like CCOM, OSU, and Michigan on top for you.

In the end, it all boils down to who you are and how hard you are willing to work during your rotations. As Quinn put it, where you went to school doesn't mean squat. Unless you are trying to get into derm at Yale or something crazy like that, OK maybe EM in Colorado.

Hope I didn't come off too much as a cynic. I do enjoy school here very much. Love the sun! It is just that the whole ranking thing doesn't really carry much weight in my book.

 

[TMarkus]

Two things

1) Academic excellence should be and typically is driven by a schools ability to produce high caliber students. The focus is placed on the entrance numbers, but only because it is easier to measure and has some corellation to the end product. GPA/MCAT scores will never tell any of us how well are patients will like us, what specialty we might choose, or our ability to effectively diagnose.

2) Does anyone really think that the majority of patients seen gives a rats ass if our degrees are from Harvard or UHS? When you go see your doctor for a check up, or you go to the local ER to get that STD checked out are you gonna care about your providers alma mater.

 

[rbassdo]

Originally posted by DrIgor
A good way to rank a school would be based on board performance.
As far as I know, the 2 schools which have the highest board passing rates are Oklahoma State Univ-COM and Univ. of Health Sciences-COM.
Igor

Apparently not...see the link below. Too lazy? Here's part of what's on the page:

"The 146 KCOM first time takers of Part One achieved a 99.3% pass rate. According to the National Board of Osteopathic Medical Examiners, KCOM students scored higher in all eight categories of the COMLEX, than all other first time takers in the nation."

http://www.kcom.edu/spotlight/primarycare.htm

 

[DrQuinn]

Whoop-de-ding about COMLEX pass rates and what-not...

Mountaindoc makes a great statement... "In the end, it all boils down to who you are and how hard you are willing to work during your rotations."

There is NO DO school that is ahead of any other school in regards to academics...

Sure, one school may have a bit more research than the other, sure one schoo may have more residencies associated with it, sure, some schools may have more hospitals associated with it... but do those factors make that school any better?

The answer is no.

Q