Which schools are expanding class sizes?

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RedPill1785

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We usually keep tabs on new schools, but where are class sizes increasing? Share your school's info. Part of this will be to take a deeper look at saturation, and another part will be for those applying to see if their chances of admittance will increase.

I know GRU's class size modestly increased from 70 to 80 from class of 2014 until now.

Results:

WVU expanded it's class size in 2012 from 50 to 60.
http://dentistry.hsc.wvu.edu/About-the-School/Message-from-the-Dean

UCONN is expanding class size(March 2013 article) - 42 to 52 which will begin in fall of 2016, then they'll keep expanding until 2018.
http://today.uconn.edu/blog/2013/03/bioscience-connecticuts-impact-on-dental-school/

Interesting, Comfort dental funded Marquette's expansion
http://www.jsonline.com/business/ma...ol-expansion-next-week-fq6mb65-168033356.html

UF is expanding class size from 80 t0 92 over four years(Starting in 2011 or 2012..hard to say)
http://www.flbog.edu/documents_meetings/0128_0550_4408_309 SPC 04b FAMU-UF Collaborative Dental Proposal.pdf

*UCF is also opening up this year(2014)

UIC decreasing class size from 65 to 50 according to arimay

UDM increased class size from 92 to 144
http://dental.udmercy.edu/alumni/leading_edge/2013Winter/files/res/downloads/book.pdf

NYU increased to 360 4-year seats for the class that entered in 2013.

MWU-AZ increased

colorado went from 50 to 80 a couple years ago + 2 classes of 40 ISPs.
 
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RedPill1785 said:
We usually keep tabs on new schools, but where are class sizes increasing? Share your school's info. Part of this will be to take a deeper look at saturation, and another part will be for those applying to see if their chances of admittance will increase.

I know GRU's class size modestly increased from 70 to 80 from class of 2014 until now.
Click to expand...
If you're noting which schools are increasing I assume you'd like to know which are decreasing. UIC is decreasing from 65 to 50
 
I think I read on here that UDM is increasing its class size. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Marquette just recently increased from 80-100.
 
WVU expanded it's class size in 2012 from 50 to 60.
http://dentistry.hsc.wvu.edu/About-the-School/Message-from-the-Dean

UCONN is expanding class size(March 2013 article) - 42 to 52 which will begin in fall of 2016, then they'll keep expanding until 2018.
http://today.uconn.edu/blog/2013/03/bioscience-connecticuts-impact-on-dental-school/

Interesting, Comfort dental funded Marquette's expansion
http://www.jsonline.com/business/ma...ol-expansion-next-week-fq6mb65-168033356.html

UF is expanding class size from 80 t0 92 over four years(Starting in 2011 or 2012..hard to say)
http://www.flbog.edu/documents_meetings/0128_0550_4408_309 SPC 04b FAMU-UF Collaborative Dental Proposal.pdf
 
arlmay said:
If you're noting which schools are increasing I assume you'd like to know which are decreasing. UIC is decreasing from 65 to 50
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why would they decrease class size? I thought universities liked money and favored it against students.
 
colorado went from 50 to 80 a couple years ago + 2 classes of 40 ISPs.
 
Bottle said:
why would they decrease class size? I thought universities liked money and favored it against students.
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I'm not entirely sure why they decreased class size. Probably because of the dismal state of Illinois finances
 
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Anyone know about Univ of Utah?
 
The decrease isn't substantial. I don't think we should take a 5 seat decrease as an act of altruism for fighting saturation. Maybe some needed facility is being renovated.
 
sjv said:
Just curious if you had anything to support that number or did you hear it somewhere?
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Go check NYU college of dentistry class of 2018 thread, there is a page of discussion regarding this issue.
 
dental13 said:
Go check NYU college of dentistry class of 2018 thread, there is a page of discussion regarding this issue.
Click to expand...

It used to be 240ish + 120 international dentists but they got rid of the shortened program for international dentists. Therefore the class size is 360 4-year seats starting with the class that entered in 2013. International dentists can still apply but they would have to stay/pay for 4 years which is undesirable considering they can go elsewhere for 2 years. I doubt there is currently a specific quota of 120 international dentists.
 
It would certainly help the college of dentistry at NYU. Being an elite private located in NYC is costly.
 
The University of New England opened in 2013 with an initial class of 64 students. Delta Dental provided millions to help fund it.

http://www.pressherald.com/news/UNE-Maine-Portland-dental-school-opens.html

On a side note, Delta Dental is a "nonprofit" organization. It enjoys tax advantages that others don't have. Despite being a nonprofit the CEO makes millions. In 2011, he took home $18 million. To give you an idea of the advantage that nonprofit status provides, Columbia University, another nonprofit organization, has used this advantage to become one of the largest land owners in New York City. It doesn't seem to translate into lower tuition for its students though.
 
Tuft's vertical expansion program. I forgot how many seats they increased by, but it's a sizable change.
 
str8ner said:
The University of New England opened in 2013 with an initial class of 64 students. Delta Dental provided millions to help fund it.

http://www.pressherald.com/news/UNE-Maine-Portland-dental-school-opens.html

On a side note, Delta Dental is a "nonprofit" organization. It enjoys tax advantages that others don't have. Despite being a nonprofit the CEO makes millions. In 2011, he took home $18 million. To give you an idea of the advantage that nonprofit status provides, Columbia University, another nonprofit organization, has used this advantage to become one of the largest land owners in New York City. It doesn't seem to translate into lower tuition for its students though.
Click to expand...

Seriously? Why would land equate to tuition? Columbia is an elite research university that's changing the world through research and students. It needs land. Do you know Columbia's economic impact? Don't put it in the same board as Delta Dental. Universities need to maintain non-profit status. It's the last thing America has(been even that won't be for long)

Columbia owning land>>>>>>>>>>>>>>those hacks in the Hamptons or crooks on Wall Street.

Where are you a post-doc?
 
Yes, seriously. Nonprofit organizations enjoy many advantages including a break on property tax. Columbia is just one very obvious example of the wealth this break can lead to. Despite this wealth, tuition at universities, including Columbia, has far outpaced inflation. Wealth also leads to influence. Universities stand to benefit from increased tuition and enrollment. It would not be surprising to see universities use their influence to meet that goal. I really can't blame them. However, I do take issue with the unfair tax advantages they receive and the ripple effects they have on the market for professionals.
 
Columbia is a private university. It's not for you. If you don't like their tuition, then don't attend. Without the American higher education system, the country would be a garbage pail. It's system of healthcare certainly ins't a model to be replicated.

Some people...
 
str8ner said:
The University of New England opened in 2013 with an initial class of 64 students. Delta Dental provided millions to help fund it.

http://www.pressherald.com/news/UNE-Maine-Portland-dental-school-opens.html

On a side note, Delta Dental is a "nonprofit" organization. It enjoys tax advantages that others don't have. Despite being a nonprofit the CEO makes millions. In 2011, he took home $18 million. To give you an idea of the advantage that nonprofit status provides, Columbia University, another nonprofit organization, has used this advantage to become one of the largest land owners in New York City. It doesn't seem to translate into lower tuition for its students though.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure I saw in the ADEA Guide UNE started with 40 and has expanded to 64.
 
RedPill1785 said:
Columbia is a private university. It's not for you. If you don't like their tuition, then don't attend. Without the American higher education system, the country would be a garbage pail. It's system of healthcare certainly ins't a model to be replicated.

Some people...
Click to expand...
I am grateful that I had more affordable options than Columbia available to me. But Columbia is not the point (only an example) and I'm sorry that it seems to strike a nerve with you. The point is that nonprofit status provides an unfair advantage to organizations that behave very much, if not identically, like for-profit corporations. America had a healthy educational system before this tax advantage became available. There is no reason to believe the educational system would collapse if the government became more strict in the bestowing of non profit status. This is not my belief alone. Many articles have been published supporting this. Here is an example:

http://capitalresearch.org/2013/11/...-businesses-leveling-an-unfair-playing-field/
 
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str8ner said:
I am grateful that I had more affordable options than Columbia available to me. But Columbia is not the point (only an example) and I'm sorry that it seems to strike a nerve with you. The point is that nonprofit status provides an unfair advantage to organizations that behave very much, if not identically, like for-profit corporations. America had a healthy educational system before this tax advantage became available. There is no reason to believe the educational system would collapse if the government became more strict in the bestowing of non profit status. This is not my belief alone. Many articles have been published supporting this. Here is an example:

http://capitalresearch.org/2013/11/...-businesses-leveling-an-unfair-playing-field/
Click to expand...

You need to stop reading tabloids and read the latest scholarly research in higher education. If non-profit status is removed, donors have less incentive to give. Public support for higher education is shrinking nationally and will soon be zero. It's now seen as a private good. Columbia is elite. They'll be fine. Your low-class "cheap" option will suffer in quality and your country will falter farther behind compared to those countries who invest in higher education rather than retract from it. With less money, universities will be have lower institutional funds for professorships, scholarships and research. Who will foot the bills of escalating tuition? The students. The one gatekeeper you had, you removed. You removed the value of alumni.

There are for-profit universities that take advantage of this status who need to be punished. You will not fix America's economy by removing charity from it. Even if you do remove non-profit status from universities, it'll only escalate stratification. Elites are elite. They'll keep getting donations. The commoners will suffer.

I think you're foolish, and I bid you well on your post-doc wherever it may be.
 
str8ner said:
Perhaps there was talk of 40 at first? Everything I've seen says the first UNE class started with 64.
http://www.wmtw.com/health/une-dental-school-opens-wednesday/21681178
http://www.pressherald.com/news/UNE-Maine-Portland-dental-school-opens.html
Click to expand...


I remember when there were first talks of the school the class size was supposed to be around 40, then then ended up making the class around 60 all of the sudden. Is there really that much of a shortage of dentists in Maine? This is especially surprising as ME has had a lot of talk about mid level providers
 
johnho771 said:
I remember when there were first talks of the school the class size was supposed to be around 40, then then ended up making the class around 60 all of the sudden. Is there really that much of a shortage of dentists in Maine? This is especially surprising as ME has had a lot of talk about mid level providers
Click to expand...
The short answer is no. There may be people in Maine not getting the dental care they need but it is not because there is a shortage of dentists. I have done some extensive research on the subject and found that the widely held belief that there is a shortage of dentists in Maine is based on a rather arbitrary and poorly designed formula to designate areas as Health Professional Shortage Areas (HPSA). As a result, over 90% of some states are designated health professional shortage areas. Please read the below summary of my investigation into the subject which specifically addresses an HPSA in Maine.

Health Professional Shortage Areas


The determination that there is a shortage of dentists in America has been based largely on the preponderance of Dental Health Professional Shortage Areas.1 HPSAs are designations assigned by the Department of Health and Human Services.2 Formulas have been developed to uniformly evaluate areas for the HPSA designation. However, little information is available regarding the methods used to develop these formulas. Given that some states are almost entirely designated as HPSAs, it is reasonable to question the validity of these calculations. There are so many HPSAs in the United States that an access to care crisis has been declared. This is despite an all-time high dentist to population ratio in the country.3,4,5 Because of this and the changes to the dental profession that have resulted, it is of extreme importance that dentists and advocates for the profession understand the HPSA designation.


Generally, a population to dentist ratio of 5,000:1 or greater warrants an HPSA designation.2 There are a multitude of factors that can lower the population to dentist ratio threshold to 4,000:1.6,7 There is no published information divulging how either of these ratios was determined. There are three categories of HPSA. A Geographic HPSA is an indication that there are not enough dentists within a reasonable distance of the area. A Population Group HPSA signifies areas that have access barriers that prevent the population group from use of the area’s dental providers. A Facilities HPSA refers to federal and/or state correctional institutions or public and/or non-profit medical facilities.


In addition to population to dentist ratio, DHHS considers other factors like populations with incomes below poverty level, travel distance/time to access dental care, fluoridation, and hours per week dentists see patients.7 Complex formulas are used to evaluate these factors regarding assignment of HPSA status. Ultimately, a lot of work has gone into creating a complicated method of delivering a rather arbitrary answer.


The Department of Health and Human Services has set a goal population to dentist ratio of 3,000:1.8 Again, it is not clear how this ratio was determined. If this ratio is accepted as truly ideal, the country has nearly twice as many dentists as the country needs.3,6 However, it is claimed that there is an uneven distribution of dentists in America that is contributing to the crisis in dental care.1


Dallas Plantation, Maine is one of thousands of HPSAs in America.9 It has a population of about 309.10 This is not a typo. There are just 309 people there. It is a ski resort area in a mountainous region of the state. And, there are no dentists there. However, a quick search of the ADA website reveals there are 27 dentists within 50 miles. The nearest dentist is a mere 6.3 miles from Dallas Plantation.11 I called this dental practice to find that it would take no longer than one week to be seen for an exam. If there was an emergency, I could be seen that day. Is this unreasonable? Does this sound like a crisis? Is this really too far to travel for dental care? It is reasonable to think anyone living in this area must travel for many necessities. Is it not reasonable to expect residents of Dallas Plantation to travel 6.3 miles for their dental needs?


HPSAs are the foundation for the house of cards called the “Access to Care Crisis”. Are there people in need of dental care that aren’t receiving it? The answer is yes. Is it because there are 10,000 too few dentists like the Pew report states? With more dentists than ever in the history of the United States and an all-time high dentist-to-population ratio, there is no possibility this could be true.


1. The Pew Charitable Trusts, In Search of Dental Care, June 2013, http://www.pewstates.org/uploadedFiles/PCS_Assets/2013/In_search_of_dental_care.pdf

2. U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Health Resources and Services Administration, http://www.hrsa.gov/shortage/

3. Dentist supply in the United States: 1993-2011. American Dental Association (2013). Retrieved September 6, 2013, from http://www.ada.org/1443.aspx


4. Historical national population estimates: July 1, 1900 to July 1 1999. Population Estimates Program, Population Division, U.S. Census Bureau. Internet Release date: April 11, 2000. Revised date: June 28, 2000. Retrieved September 7, 2013, from http://www.census.gov/population/estimates/nation/popclockest.txt


5. The number of dentists in the United States, 1900-2000. American Dental Association, Survey Center. 2002.

6. U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Health Resources and Services Administration, Dental HPSA Designation Overview. http://bhpr.hrsa.gov/shortage/hpsas/designationcriteria/dentalhpsaoverview.html

7. U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Health Resources and Services Administration, Dental HPSA Designation Criteria. http://bhpr.hrsa.gov/shortage/hpsas/designationcriteria/dentalhpsacriteria.html

8. HRSA Data Warehouse, Designated Health Professional Shortage Areas as of January 8, 2013. http://www.dentistryiq.com/content/dam/diq/online-articles/documents/2013/01/HPSA Stats.pdf

9. U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, HRSA Data Warehouse. http://datawarehouse.hrsa.gov/hpsadetail.aspx

10. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas_Plantation,_Maine

11. http://www.rangeleydental.com/Welcome.html
 
Last edited:
str8ner said:
The short answer is no. There may be people in Maine not getting the dental care they need but it is not because there is a shortage of dentists. I have done some extensive research on the subject and found that the widely held belief that there is a shortage of dentists in Maine is based on a rather arbitrary and poorly designed formula to designate areas as Health Professional Shortage Areas (HPSA). As a result, over 90% of some states are designated health professional shortage areas. Please read the below summary of my investigation into the subject which specifically addresses an HPSA in Maine.

Health Professional Shortage Areas


The determination that there is a shortage of dentists in America has been based largely on the preponderance of Dental Health Professional Shortage Areas.1 HPSAs are designations assigned by the Department of Health and Human Services.2 Formulas have been developed to uniformly evaluate areas for the HPSA designation. However, little information is available regarding the methods used to develop these formulas. Given that some states are almost entirely designated as HPSAs, it is reasonable to question the validity of these calculations. There are so many HPSAs in the United States that an access to care crisis has been declared. This is despite an all-time high dentist to population ratio in the country.3,4,5 Because of this and the changes to the dental profession that have resulted, it is of extreme importance that dentists and advocates for the profession understand the HPSA designation.


Generally, a population to dentist ratio of 5,000:1 or greater warrants an HPSA designation.2 There are a multitude of factors that can lower the population to dentist ratio threshold to 4,000:1.6,7 There is no published information divulging how either of these ratios was determined. There are three categories of HPSA. A Geographic HPSA is an indication that there are not enough dentists within a reasonable distance of the area. A Population Group HPSA signifies areas that have access barriers that prevent the population group from use of the area’s dental providers. A Facilities HPSA refers to federal and/or state correctional institutions or public and/or non-profit medical facilities.


In addition to population to dentist ratio, DHHS considers other factors like populations with incomes below poverty level, travel distance/time to access dental care, fluoridation, and hours per week dentists see patients.7 Complex formulas are used to evaluate these factors regarding assignment of HPSA status. Ultimately, a lot of work has gone into creating a complicated method of delivering a rather arbitrary answer.


The Department of Health and Human Services has set a goal population to dentist ratio of 3,000:1.8 Again, it is not clear how this ratio was determined. If this ratio is accepted as truly ideal, the country has nearly twice as many dentists as the country needs.3,6 However, it is claimed that there is an uneven distribution of dentists in America that is contributing to the crisis in dental care.1


Dallas Plantation, Maine is one of thousands of HPSAs in America.9 It has a population of about 309.10 This is not a typo. There are just 309 people there. It is a ski resort area in a mountainous region of the state. And, there are no dentists there. However, a quick search of the ADA website reveals there are 27 dentists within 50 miles. The nearest dentist is a mere 6.3 miles from Dallas Plantation.11 I called this dental practice to find that it would take no longer than one week to be seen for an exam. If there was an emergency, I could be seen that day. Is this unreasonable? Does this sound like a crisis? Is this really too far to travel for dental care? It is reasonable to think anyone living in this area must travel for many necessities. Is it not reasonable to expect residents of Dallas Plantation to travel 6.3 miles for their dental needs?


HPSAs are the foundation for the house of cards called the “Access to Care Crisis”. Are there people in need of dental care that aren’t receiving it? The answer is yes. Is it because there are 10,000 too few dentists like the Pew report states? With more dentists than ever in the history of the United States and an all-time high dentist-to-population ratio, there is no possibility this could be true.


1. The Pew Charitable Trusts, In Search of Dental Care, June 2013, http://www.pewstates.org/uploadedFiles/PCS_Assets/2013/In_search_of_dental_care.pdf

2. U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Health Resources and Services Administration, http://www.hrsa.gov/shortage/

3. Dentist supply in the United States: 1993-2011. American Dental Association (2013). Retrieved September 6, 2013, from http://www.ada.org/1443.aspx


4. Historical national population estimates: July 1, 1900 to July 1 1999. Population Estimates Program, Population Division, U.S. Census Bureau. Internet Release date: April 11, 2000. Revised date: June 28, 2000. Retrieved September 7, 2013, from http://www.census.gov/population/estimates/nation/popclockest.txt


5. The number of dentists in the United States, 1900-2000. American Dental Association, Survey Center. 2002.

6. U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Health Resources and Services Administration, Dental HPSA Designation Overview. http://bhpr.hrsa.gov/shortage/hpsas/designationcriteria/dentalhpsaoverview.html

7. U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Health Resources and Services Administration, Dental HPSA Designation Criteria. http://bhpr.hrsa.gov/shortage/hpsas/designationcriteria/dentalhpsacriteria.html

8. HRSA Data Warehouse, Designated Health Professional Shortage Areas as of January 8, 2013. http://www.dentistryiq.com/content/dam/diq/online-articles/documents/2013/01/HPSA Stats.pdf

9. U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, HRSA Data Warehouse. http://datawarehouse.hrsa.gov/hpsadetail.aspx

10. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas_Plantation,_Maine

11. http://www.rangeleydental.com/Welcome.html
Click to expand...

Thanks for the thorough response. Your answer is basically what I thought, ME does not have as dental shortage. I see that a lot of the students attending UNE, are from Maine. I wonder how their employment prospects will be in the state once they graduate? The school and officials claiming a shortage would seem to lead students to believe that students will have not problem finding a job after graduation in the state. Unfortunately, I do not think it will be that easy. And if the school expects these students to go and open their own practices in "areas of need," after many will be in debt as the school charges around 70/k a year w/o living expenses, I think that's crazy.

I hope I am wrong, but who knows? Dental schools place an emphasis on ethics and ideas like how a dentist should not preform expensive work on a patient that is not warranted. I hope all these schools charging crazy tuitions and claiming the mission to prospective students of fixing dental shortages are keeping ethics in mind.
 
johnho771 said:
Thanks for the thorough response. Your answer is basically what I thought, ME does not have as dental shortage. I see that a lot of the students attending UNE, are from Maine. I wonder how their employment prospects will be in the state once they graduate? The school and officials claiming a shortage would seem to lead students to believe that students will have not problem finding a job after graduation in the state. Unfortunately, I do not think it will be that easy. And if the school expects these students to go and open their own practices in "areas of need," after many will be in debt as the school charges around 70/k a year w/o living expenses, I think that's crazy.

I hope I am wrong, but who knows? Dental schools place an emphasis on ethics and ideas like how a dentist should not preform expensive work on a patient that is not warranted. I hope all these schools charging crazy tuitions and claiming the mission to prospective students of fixing dental shortages are keeping ethics in mind.
Click to expand...
Currently there are very few jobs advertised in Maine for dentists. I doubt even half of the UNE graduates will stay in Maine. There just aren't enough jobs for that. And, you are correct. How could a recent graduate of UNE, heavily burdened by debt, consider taking out another $500,000 in loans to open a practice in an area with few patients able or willing to pay for dental services. If these communities are so desperate for a dentist, the obvious mode of action would be to hire an existing dentist at a competitive wage. Spending millions of tax dollars on an expensive dental school in the mere hope that some graduates will go where they want them to is unrealistic and irresponsible.

Regarding ethics, it is the job of the Commission on Dental Accreditation (CODA) to oversee dental schools regarding this and many other educational matters. Sadly, the actions it takes seem minimal unless a potentially embarrassing matter goes public.
 
str8ner said:
Currently there are very few jobs advertised in Maine for dentists. I doubt even half of the UNE graduates will stay in Maine. There just aren't enough jobs for that. And, you are correct. How could a recent graduate of UNE, heavily burdened by debt, consider taking out another $500,000 in loans to open a practice in an area with few patients able or willing to pay for dental services. If these communities are so desperate for a dentist, the obvious mode of action would be to hire an existing dentist at a competitive wage. Spending millions of tax dollars on an expensive dental school in the mere hope that some graduates will go where they want them to is unrealistic and irresponsible.

Regarding ethics, it is the job of the Commission on Dental Accreditation (CODA) to oversee dental schools regarding this and many other educational matters. Sadly, the actions it takes seem minimal unless a potentially embarrassing matter goes public.
Click to expand...

Sounds like the 1970s all over again.
 
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