Why are DO schools more lenient on GPA/MCATs?

[kts]

Just wondering, why are DO schools on average more lenient with an applicant's GPA compared to MD?

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[And I Was Like]

The degree is viewed by many to be a back-up for people who are unable to get into MD schools (usually because of grades) so DO schools have lower statistics to attract these students. Also, a lot of people don't know what a DO is, why would they go to a DO school if they have a 3.6 and a 30+ on the MCAT, so they have lower admission standards.

In addition to this, they do grade replacement which significantly raises the GPA of applicants and a good portion of schools do MCAT "Super-scores" meaning they take the highest score on each section of the MCAT to calculate your MCAT. So even if you took it 10 times, and on every test you got 1-1-X, 1-X-1, or X-1-1 where X is a number greater than 1, for this argument we'll say 10. As far as some DO programs are concerned you have a 30.

I'm about to get flamed, so let me say this is not what I believe, it is simply what some people believe. I'm not saying whether it's right or wrong. Just a simple statement of some facts and opinions some people in the medical community have. These views are not necessarily those of the poster or it's affiliates.

 

[DocEspana]

I actually dont believe any schools do the MCAT super scoring. But if you have proof otherwise then I'm wrong.

Other parts seem fine to me. Gotta call a spade a spade. The honest truth is unless someone is specifically enamored with DO philosophy, they wont pick it over MD initially if only because of name recognition. Its just how it is, no shame in that game.

 

[ceadmilefailte]

Ditto on what others have mentioned.

Osteopathic schools also like non-trads and pride themselves on looking at applicants as whole. So something that is unique or special about might make up for slightly lower numbers and thus lower averages.

Mostly, it is because a lot of people go with the name recognition of an allopathic school (or want more research opportunities) and as such osteopathic schools will have slightly lower averages. Again though, numbers aren't everything and osteopathic schools produce excellent doctors.

All that being said, many of the schools have pretty high averages and others of course are lower.

And I have never heard of MCAT "supers scoring". That sounds ridiculous.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

I've heard of schools "super scoring" mcat scores, but they were few and mainly MD schools.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I've heard of schools "super scoring" mcat scores, but they were few and mainly MD schools.

PCOM, I believe does.

 

[ceadmilefailte]

This is from the PCOM faq for osteopathic applicants:

Q. Is it ok to take the MCAT more the once?
A: You may take the MCATs more than once, but MCAT scores are only valid for 3 years from desired matriculation. We will take your highest valid score and look at that break down when we make our evaluation.

Is that actually super scoring or simply just taking the highest score? I have heard of places only caring about the higher score (which I assume is most all places lol) and that seems to be the case here? Someone correct me if I am wrong or misreading that.

http://www.pcom.edu/Admissions/adm_FAQs/DoFaqs.html

PCOM, I believe does.

 

[UBCvan]

why DO schools are more lenient on MCAT/GPA? 2 words: FEWER APPLICANTS.

no other reasons. in X years, when the number of applicants increases, the admission to these schools will get tougher.

 

[bpatient]

Yeah it seems to be increasing each year

 

[willen101383]

And the name recognition thing=fewer applicants....among other reasons like AOA residencies suck compared to ACGME, not wanting to waste time with OMM, MDs match to better programs more frequently etc.

The one beef I have is with the grade replacement. I personally never replaced a single course and I cant think of anyone in my class that I associate with that has done grade replacement. I am at one of the more competitive DO programs so perhaps that is why..but from reports here on SDN in the past most people havent utilized this policy.

And in the big picture what do undergrad grades and MCAT really mean? Nothing. That have no bearing on the type of doctor you will be or how you will do in med school. I love pulling out this card: but I had an undergrad GPA of 2.45...youd never think I could make it in med school...but I had no problem scoring above the mean all year on every exam last year. Just goes to show you how little undergrad grades really mean. Some people just arent ready to be academic powerhouses in undergrad (like me). I grew up and started doing really well academically in grad and med school...yet most MD programs would never ever have taken a chance on me because of this crap (no real evidence since I didnt apply to a single MD school).

 

[TriagePreMed]

I don't believe it has anything to do with fewer applicants. You see that there are 3k to 4k applicants per school. Schools like PCOM get tons of applicants. They could easily bring up their averages if they went through numbers alone. I think many Osteopathic schools take a holistic approach and rather give a non-traditional student or someone that's done something amazing without the stellar GPA a shot.

 

[JESSFALLING]

DO schools are 90% medicine + 10% chiropractic. Most students prefer 100% medicine, hence MD is typically preferred.

 

[Honze55]

DO schools are 90% medicine + 10% chiropractic. Most students prefer 100% medicine, hence MD is typically preferred.

Correction: DO schools are 100% medicine + 10% OMM. MD schools are 100% Medicine.

 

[TriagePreMed]

Correction: DO schools are 100% medicine + 10% OMM. MD schools are 100% Medicine.

I'm pretty sure Jess is Pre-Osteo, so it was tongue-in-cheek.

 

[OMGPharmD]

Because to become physicians students don't need a super high MCAT/undergrad GPA

 

[DocEspana]

why DO schools are more lenient on MCAT/GPA? 2 words: FEWER APPLICANTS.

no other reasons. in X years, when the number of applicants increases, the admission to these schools will get tougher.

DO schools receive more applications per school than MD schools

 

[DrBowtie]

Correction: DO schools are 100% medicine + 10% OMM. MD schools are 100% Medicine.

Pretty sure USMLE data would say otherwise. And there isn't anything wrong with <100%. You don't need a lot of what is cut out. And for the record, there are plenty of MD schools that don't do 100% medicine either as things get cut when you condense things to 1 or 1.5 years.

 

[MedicineMike]

Ew I hate the pre-fix "chiro"...I dont like a DO degree to be associated as a chiro. My brother, who is a veterinarian, always calls me a chiro when I call him a fake doctor. We are obviously joking, but I don't like when other people seriously associate the DO profession with even 10% chiropractic.

To the OP: DO schools do appreciate non-trads and take into account the entire applicant. I am thankful for this because as an athlete in undergrad, my GPA was abysmal to say the least. After a 4.0 in 40+hrs of post-bacc and decent MCAT I still wouldn't have been looked at by my state MD schools. That's because my cumGPA still wasn't good on paper. I have quite a bit more to offer than my low undergrad GPA. And I believe my school recognized that, so I am thankful!

 

[pancakesyrup]

And the name recognition thing=fewer applicants....among other reasons like AOA residencies suck compared to ACGME, not wanting to waste time with OMM, MDs match to better programs more frequently etc.

The one beef I have is with the grade replacement. I personally never replaced a single course and I cant think of anyone in my class that I associate with that has done grade replacement. I am at one of the more competitive DO programs so perhaps that is why..but from reports here on SDN in the past most people havent utilized this policy.

Is that really true, or is it just a perception?

 

[willen101383]

Is that really true, or is it just a perception?

Truth. Depends what you are talking about though. Most ACGME residencies are at better academic centers than AOA programs. But hell, PCOM has a few AOA residencies in EM (thats what im looking at so Ive looked into it) at what I would consider good hospitals. Einstein in philly is a lvl 1 trauma with the most penetrating trauma in the city, Lehigh valley is another lvl 1 trauma sort of out in the middle of nowhere but it is a regional center serving a huge area and thus still gets a good amount of pathology etc.

 

[pancakesyrup]

Truth. Depends what you are talking about though. Most ACGME residencies are at better academic centers than AOA programs. But hell, PCOM has a few AOA residencies in EM (thats what im looking at so Ive looked into it) at what I would consider good hospitals. Einstein in philly is a lvl 1 trauma with the most penetrating trauma in the city, Lehigh valley is another lvl 1 trauma sort of out in the middle of nowhere but it is a regional center serving a huge area and thus still gets a good amount of pathology etc.

So if a DO wants to match into ortho or some other highly competitive specialty, and does an AOA residency (since allo residencies are nearly out of reach for the hardest specialties), does it mean he'll receive inadequate training?

 

[willen101383]

Ew I hate the pre-fix "chiro"...I dont like a DO degree to be associated as a chiro. My brother, who is a veterinarian, always calls me a chiro when I call him a fake doctor. We are obviously joking, but I don't like when other people seriously associate the DO profession with even 10% chiropractic.

To the OP: DO schools do appreciate non-trads and take into account the entire applicant. I am thankful for this because as an athlete in undergrad, my GPA was abysmal to say the least. After a 4.0 in 40+hrs of post-bacc and decent MCAT I still wouldn't have been looked at by my state MD schools. That's because my cumGPA still wasn't good on paper. I have quite a bit more to offer than my low undergrad GPA. And I believe my school recognized that, so I am thankful!

You should see how much the OMM faculty bashes chiropractic since OMM is this cure all delivered from the hands of the lord A.T Still himself Funny considering its basically the same thing, except OMM is SUPPOSED to have background in real science.....oh wait.

 

[MedicineMike]

You should see how much the OMM faculty bashes chiropractic since OMM is this cure all delivered from the hands of the lord A.T Still himself Funny considering its basically the same thing, except OMM is SUPPOSED to have background in real science.....oh wait.

Yeah I am sorta with you on that although not nearly as jaded as you are on the subject of OMM (just yet ). I don't think I will like it at all but am keeping an open mind!

 

[Velocity]

Pretty sure USMLE data would say otherwise.

What is this supposed to mean - that DO students score lower than MD students on the USMLE? If that's what you were indicating, it doesn't necessarily reflect the DO curriculum vs. the MD curriculum. Stating this probably isn't anything you didn't already know, but DO students have to take the COMLEX, and the USMLE is an optional, added burden. MD students are USMLE-only. Compared to the MD students, DO students go into the exam with that handicap. (There's plenty of material crossover between the two exams, and some might argue that studying for one is as good as studying for the other, but that's not the point - the point is that one group has to take two exams for every one that the other does.)

 

[willen101383]

Yeah I am sorta with you on that although not nearly as jaded as you are on the subject of OMM (just yet ). I don't think I will like it at all but am keeping an open mind!

Good its def best to keep an open mind...for all you know youll love it. Many of my classmates do...but its really not my cup o tea. But I just find it hilarious how the OMM profs refer to chiropractic like its some voodoo stuff but OMM is the ish.

There are OMM techniques that do work but the scope of what OMM works for is FAR exaggerated by the OMM gurus.

 

[willen101383]

So if a DO wants to match into ortho or some other highly competitive specialty, and does an AOA residency (since allo residencies are nearly out of reach for the hardest specialties), does it mean he'll receive inadequate training?

Programs should be compared on a case by case basis honestly. But in general you are going to see a wider variety of pathology/cases at ACGME programs. Being that I am not at this stage in my training yet this thread could benefit from some of the DO attendings who have commented on this in other threads. As far as the training being "inadequate" I wouldnt say this would be the case because all these programs are going to graduate competent docs.

 

[DrBowtie]

What is this supposed to mean - that DO students score lower than MD students on the USMLE? If that's what you were indicating, it doesn't necessarily reflect the DO curriculum vs. the MD curriculum. Stating this probably isn't anything you didn't already know, but DO students have to take the COMLEX, and the USMLE is an optional, added burden. MD students are USMLE-only. Compared to the MD students, DO students go into the exam with that handicap. (There's plenty of material crossover between the two exams, and some might argue that studying for one is as good as studying for the other, but that's not the point - the point is that one group has to take two exams for every one that the other does.)

Not really referring to scoring higher, just passing. Minimum baseline competency. I'm curious what the handicap is if DO students study "100% medicine + 10% OMM" and MD students study "100% medicine". They both study 100% medicine correct?

You are right that not all DO students take the USMLE. I think that worsens your position with a selection bias. The unmotivated DO students aren't going to sit for the USMLE as it is another exam.

My point is not to get into a full blown debate and hijack, I just think the 110% statements are ignorant.

 

[willen101383]

Not really referring to scoring higher, just passing. Minimum baseline competency. I'm curious what the handicap is if DO students study "100% medicine + 10% OMM" and MD students study "100% medicine". They both study 100% medicine correct?

You are right that not all DO students take the USMLE. I think that worsens your position with a selection bias. The unmotivated DO students aren't going to sit for the USMLE as it is another exam.

My point is not to get into a full blown debate and hijack, I just think the 110% statements are ignorant.

I agree with you...I just dont see where in our curriculum they dropped 10% of medicine. Not that FA is a great metric for curriculum completeness...but everything in FA has been covered in our lectures. Perhaps DO students just dont score as well on standardized tests or just arent as good at studying for long periods of time for exams. That being said I have every intention of taking the USMLE and zero intention of going to an AOA program.

 

[MedicineMike]

Not really referring to scoring higher, just passing. Minimum baseline competency. I'm curious what the handicap is if DO students study "100% medicine + 10% OMM" and MD students study "100% medicine". They both study 100% medicine correct?

You are right that not all DO students take the USMLE. I think that worsens your position with a selection bias. The unmotivated DO students aren't going to sit for the USMLE as it is another exam.

My point is not to get into a full blown debate and hijack, I just think the 110% statements are ignorant.

I completely agree with this. I believe that OMM kind of gets in the way of other information that could be valuable for the USMLE. That's one disadvantage I guess. And it's true; the unmotivated who may just sit in for the USMLE because someone told them to, is going to severely deviate the data.

 

[DrBowtie]

I completely agree with this. I believe that OMM kind of gets in the way of other information that could be valuable for the USMLE. That's one disadvantage I guess. And it's true; the unmotivated who may just sit in for the USMLE because someone told them to, is going to severely deviate the data.

You misinterpreted my point. Since the USMLE represents extra cost, time and hassle the unmotivated WON'T be taking the exam. It potentially skews the data the other way with only more motivated and prepared test takers representing the DO testers still lagging in pass rates.

 

[DrBowtie]

I agree with you...I just dont see where in our curriculum they dropped 10% of medicine. Not that FA is a great metric for curriculum completeness...but everything in FA has been covered in our lectures. Perhaps DO students just dont score as well on standardized tests or just arent as good at studying for long periods of time for exams. That being said I have every intention of taking the USMLE and zero intention of going to an AOA program.

FA doesn't represent 100%. If schools can cover that amount in 1-1.5 years, You could say it covers 75%ish. I think the debate falls with how helpful/relevant is the last 25% and if missing some of it makes you less of a doctor.

 

[MedicineMike]

You misinterpreted my point. Since the USMLE represents extra cost, time and hassle the unmotivated WON'T be taking the exam. It potentially skews the data the other way with only more motivated and prepared test takers representing the DO testers still lagging in pass rates.

So essentially you are saying that well-prepared DOs are not good at USMLE?

 

[DrBowtie]

So essentially you are saying that well-prepared DOs are not good at USMLE?

Correct. 92% vs. 82% first time pass rate in 2010.

This depends on whether or not the USMLE is a good metric to measure your medical knowledge, but its the best we have now to compare.

 

[Velocity]

Not really referring to scoring higher, just passing. Minimum baseline competency. I'm curious what the handicap is if DO students study "100% medicine + 10% OMM" and MD students study "100% medicine". They both study 100% medicine correct?

Is there data on the pass rates? If so, could you link us to it?

Otherwise, the entire point of "100% medicine vs. 100% medicine + 10% OMM" is a pretty silly one. What do these percentages even mean, anyway? The time a student spends studying either? The time spent in lecture on them? Effort?

I have heard that osteopathic programs tend to have longer semesters than allopathic programs so that OMM can be included without taking time away from the other subjects. I don't know if that's true for all schools, or if it could even be said about most. However, what is undeniable is the fact that it is yet another bit of knowledge to go through. Even if there is a longer semester, it is something that students must give additional focus to. That's arguably a test-based handicap in itself.

One might take that argument and state that DO's are less proficient in medicine than MD's. I wouldn't say that. From what I understand of it (and my position may be clarified once I have actual exposure to it), OMM seems like the type of thing that could help a physician's physical exam (or perhaps even procedural) skills, but it's pretty useless for an exam - unless that exam is specifically testing it.

Another academic benefit of OMM is in anatomical knowledge. This bit is anecdotal (in other words, it doesn't mean much, but is said in passing interest) but many DO schools have an intense focus on anatomy. They participate in national exams and seem to push it heavily. On the other hand, my wife - who attends an upper-tier allopathic medical school - wasn't particularly impressed with how anatomy was handled in her program. It was intensive, but not particularly emphasized, and she didn't get much out of it.

But we're all different. Some people will benefit from OMM, and for some people it will just be a drain on everything else.

You are right that not all DO students take the USMLE. I think that worsens your position with a selection bias. The unmotivated DO students aren't going to sit for the USMLE as it is another exam.

That's an interesting point. I would disagree with your assertion (or at least, disagree that it should override the handicap of taking two majors exams), but we don't have any data to back up either of our points.

Either way, I wouldn't read too heavily into the percentage thing. It was a cute statement, but a bit nonsensical no matter how you look at it.

 

[MedicineMike]

Correct. 92% vs. 82% first time pass rate in 2010.

This depends on whether or not the USMLE is a good metric to measure your medical knowledge, but its the best we have now to compare.

Well I think that is a weak comparison seeing as our curriculum is geared towards an entire other board exam...

 

[DrBowtie]

Well I think that is a weak comparison seeing as our curriculum is geared towards an entire other board exam...

But then does it support the assertion that DOs study 100% medicine + 10% OMM? To me that sounds like "we study everything you study plus more" which is why my original point was brought up.

Aside from OMM questions, how does the COMLEX differ in content to the USMLE?

 

[DrBowtie]

Is there data on the pass rates? If so, could you link us to it?

That's an interesting point. I would disagree with your assertion (or at least, disagree that it should override the handicap of taking two majors exams), but we don't have any data to back up either of our points.

Either way, I wouldn't read too heavily into the percentage thing. It was a cute statement, but a bit nonsensical no matter how you look at it.

http://www.usmle.org/Scores_Transcripts/performance.html

So what point about my selection bias on what DO students take the USMLE do you disagree? Since they all aren't made to take it, a selection bias exists, but of what selection criteria.

 

[MedicineMike]

But then does it support the assertion that DOs study 100% medicine + 10% OMM? To me that sounds like "we study everything you study plus more" which is why my original point was brought up.

Aside from OMM questions, how does the COMLEX differ in content to the USMLE?

I already agreed with you that that was the stupidest "statement" i have ever seen. It has no relevance to anything.

My best friend just took both exams and scored 99th %ile on comlex and a 255 on usmle. He said the comlex is tricky but he felt as if the usmle was designed purely to try to trick you and mess with you. He said they were 2 different beasts in their own unique way. I think the biggest difference is the way they are written.

Since I have not taken either exam, hearsay is all I have. I will get back to you on that in 2 years haha.

 

[DrBowtie]

I already agreed with you that that was the stupidest "statement" i have ever seen. It has no relevance to anything.

My best friend just took both exams and scored 99th %ile on comlex and a 255 on usmle. He said the comlex is tricky but he felt as if the usmle was designed purely to try to trick you and mess with you. He said they were 2 different beasts in their own unique way. I think the biggest difference is the way they are written.

Since I have not taken either exam, hearsay is all I have. I will get back to you on that in 2 years haha.

That's interesting. Everything I have heard/read here is that the COMLEX was the "trickier" of the two with the question structures being poorer.

Obviously they didn't have too much of a problem with either though. Kudos to him/her

 

[MedicineMike]

That's interesting. Everything I have heard/read here is that the COMLEX was the "trickier" of the two with the question structures being poorer.

Obviously they didn't have too much of a problem with either though. Kudos to him/her

Yeah, like I said, I don't know about either of them so I will just take their word. I think everybody's view is different so who knows.

 

[And I Was Like]

That's interesting. Everything I have heard/read here is that the COMLEX was the "trickier" of the two with the question structures being poorer.

Obviously they didn't have too much of a problem with either though. Kudos to him/her

well n = 1. You've posted the statistics that show even though there is self-selection for DO students taking the USMLE they consistently score lower than MD students and have a significantly lower pass rate.

The question is why does this happen? Even if the COMLEX had lots of trick questions/whatever shouldn't that be more reason for DO students to score higher on the USMLE. I saw this posted before and am only repeating it: If MDs and DOs learn the exact same thing shouldn't their scores on the USMLE (which doesn't have OMM or Osteopathic history) be similar, or at least have a very slight difference. Well, this isn't what happens as the statistics show.

I will say this again, this isn't necessarily what I believe, but what is a lot of people think. These views may or may not be my own, I'm only repeating common arguments.

 

[pancakesyrup]

I already agreed with you that that was the stupidest "statement" i have ever seen. It has no relevance to anything.

My best friend just took both exams and scored 99th %ile on comlex and a 255 on usmle. He said the comlex is tricky but he felt as if the usmle was designed purely to try to trick you and mess with you. He said they were 2 different beasts in their own unique way. I think the biggest difference is the way they are written.

Since I have not taken either exam, hearsay is all I have. I will get back to you on that in 2 years haha.

For someone who goes to a DO school and is well-prepared for the COMLEX, is a lot of extra studying needed specifically for the USMLE?

 

[MedicineMike]

well n = 1. You've posted the statistics that show even though there is self-selection for DO students taking the USMLE they consistently score lower than MD students and have a significantly lower pass rate.

The question is why does this happen? Even if the COMLEX had lots of trick questions/whatever shouldn't that be more reason for DO students to score higher on the USMLE. I saw this posted before and am only repeating it: If MDs and DOs learn the exact same thing shouldn't their scores on the USMLE (which doesn't have OMM or Osteopathic history) be similar, or at least have a very slight difference. Well, this isn't what happens as the statistics show.

I will say this again, this isn't necessarily what I believe, but what is a lot of people think. These views may or may not be my own, I'm only repeating common arguments.

To argue more: I feel that some are the stats of the USMLE are also a bit skewed due to the un-motivated/carefree DO's taking the USMLE.

There are a lot of Primary care specialties (Peds, FM, IM, OB/GYN) represented in DO schools. These students are not trying to blow the USMLE and COMLEX out of the water like the students are that are trying to go for competitive specialties. What happens is that they don't study efficiently and extra in hopes that they just get a passing score. This may work sometimes, but it will lead to failure if not careful. You don't need a wonderful score to get into your run of the mill ACGME Primary care residency...

 

[MedicineMike]

I also know that if I were going into an uncompetitive field (I don't plan to), I would definitely not over-exert myself in terms of studying. Especially since I will have to take 2 board exams at the end of 2 years....

 

[DrLeon]

For someone who goes to a DO school and is well-prepared for the COMLEX, is a lot of extra studying needed specifically for the USMLE?

Short answer, yes. While both tests will have a fair amount of overlap it is the test format that differs. I have seen students say that one is more clinically oriented while the other is more theory driven. So while you can study the same material for both, you have to also study how to apply it in different ways

 

[denco88]

well n = 1. You've posted the statistics that show even though there is self-selection for DO students taking the USMLE they consistently score lower than MD students and have a significantly lower pass rate.

The question is why does this happen? Even if the COMLEX had lots of trick questions/whatever shouldn't that be more reason for DO students to score higher on the USMLE. I saw this posted before and am only repeating it: If MDs and DOs learn the exact same thing shouldn't their scores on the USMLE (which doesn't have OMM or Osteopathic history) be similar, or at least have a very slight difference. Well, this isn't what happens as the statistics show.

I will say this again, this isn't necessarily what I believe, but what is a lot of people think. These views may or may not be my own, I'm only repeating common arguments.

You are completely forgetting the fact the exams are written differently. DO schools will be taught and review towards the COMLEX more significantly since it is needed to pass medical school for us. USMLE is typically studied for 2 or 3 weeks after the COMLEX is taken. You cannot compare unless MD students did the same thing. I am almost certain the pass rates would be lower just because of how the exam is written.

 

[DrBowtie]

To argue more: I feel that some are the stats of the USMLE are also a bit skewed due to the un-motivated/carefree DO's taking the USMLE.

There are a lot of Primary care specialties (Peds, FM, IM, OB/GYN) represented in DO schools. These students are not trying to blow the USMLE and COMLEX out of the water like the students are that are trying to go for competitive specialties. What happens is that they don't study efficiently and extra in hopes that they just get a passing score. This may work sometimes, but it will lead to failure if not careful. You don't need a wonderful score to get into your run of the mill ACGME Primary care residency...

I also know that if I were going into an uncompetitive field (I don't plan to), I would definitely not over-exert myself in terms of studying. Especially since I will have to take 2 board exams at the end of 2 years....

1. Primary care specialties are DO friendly and many do not require USMLE scores.
2. So you're not going to over exert yourself studying, but you're going to be taking two board exams when one is unnecessary

3.Explain the skewedness of the unmotivated? The MD schools have plenty of unmotivated students, and those headed towards primary care as well and they all have to take the exam. DO students can self-select for whatever reason to take or not take the exam. As I have said all along, it all comes down to the selection bias on how the difference in pass rates is to be interpreted.

You are completely forgetting the fact the exams are written differently. DO schools will be taught and review towards the COMLEX more significantly since it is needed to pass medical school for us. USMLE is typically studied for 2 or 3 weeks after the COMLEX is taken. You cannot compare unless MD students did the same thing. I am almost certain the pass rates would be lower just because of how the exam is written.

I've seen most people on the Step 1 forum study for the USMLE primarily then add 2-3 weeks for OMM review, not the other way around. Skewed sample but all I have to go on.

Are the tests that different in terms of CONTENT? That's the root of the 100+10 vs. 100 debate.

 

[patel2]

well n = 1. You've posted the statistics that show even though there is self-selection for DO students taking the USMLE they consistently score lower than MD students and have a significantly lower pass rate.

The question is why does this happen? Even if the COMLEX had lots of trick questions/whatever shouldn't that be more reason for DO students to score higher on the USMLE. I saw this posted before and am only repeating it: If MDs and DOs learn the exact same thing shouldn't their scores on the USMLE (which doesn't have OMM or Osteopathic history) be similar, or at least have a very slight difference. Well, this isn't what happens as the statistics show.

I will say this again, this isn't necessarily what I believe, but what is a lot of people think. These views may or may not be my own, I'm only repeating common arguments.

the comlex is trickier not because it's more challenging but because it's so poorly written on every level. One guy posted on here that he would literally laugh out loud during the test at how asinine some of the questions and diagrams were. The USMLE is actually well written and thought provoking.

Many DO students just sit in for the USMLE "just cuz", without any additional studying for it. There are different emphasis on content within the test and if you go into one having focused on the other, you may not do all that well. If they fail...who cares? They don't need to report it to AOA residencies so it can be inconsequential and lower that number. If you got rid of the COMLEX and DO students needed to pass the USMLE, I think it would be another story and pass rates would be much higher.

 

[MedicineMike]

1. Primary care specialties are DO friendly and many do not require USMLE scores.
2. So you're not going to over exert yourself studying, but you're going to be taking two board exams when one is unnecessary

3.Explain the skewedness of the unmotivated? The MD schools have plenty of unmotivated students, and those headed towards primary care as well and they all have to take the exam. DO students can self-select for whatever reason to take or not take the exam. As I have said all along, it all comes down to the selection bias on how the difference in pass rates is to be interpreted.



I've seen most people on the Step 1 forum study for the USMLE primarily then add 2-3 weeks for OMM review, not the other way around. Skewed sample but all I have to go on.

Are the tests that different in terms of CONTENT? That's the root of the 100+10 vs. 100 debate.

This was never a debate. It is a useless statement made by someone. I thought we've moved passed this!?

the comlex is trickier not because it's more challenging but because it's so poorly written on every level. One guy posted on here that he would literally laugh out loud during the test at how asinine some of the questions and diagrams were. The USMLE is actually well written and thought provoking.

Many DO students just sit in for the USMLE "just cuz", without any additional studying for it. There are different emphasis on content within the test and if you go into one having focused on the other, you may not do all that well. If they fail...who cares? They don't need to report it to AOA residencies so it can be inconsequential and lower that number. If you got rid of the COMLEX and DO students needed to pass the USMLE, I think it would be another story and pass rates would be much higher.

This is what I was explaining. A lot of people sit in for the USMLE for the hell of it. If they do bad, so what? They still have AOA residencies and nobody ever has to know about if they passed the usmle or not. Conversely for MD students is that they HAVE to pass USMLE of they have no chance.

 

[And I Was Like]

This was never a debate. It is a useless statement made by someone. I thought we've moved passed this!?



This is what I was explaining. A lot of people sit in for the USMLE for the hell of it. If they do bad, so what? They still have AOA residencies and nobody ever has to know about if they passed the usmle or not. Conversely for MD students is that they HAVE to pass USMLE of they have no chance.

First, do you have statistics that show the percent of people who take the USMLE "for the hell of it"? I see no reason to believe this other than a couple people. And even so, the people who take "for the hell of it" are pretty much the same as the uninterested/slacker MD students, who still outperform most DO students.

For the remainder of my posts remember I'm not expressing my views- just what many people believe, right or wrong.