Why do med schools separate from the Universities they were once associated with

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HOLDENc

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Seems counterintuitive b/c you would think they both would be stronger together than independently. I would think they could save money, build prestige, better utilize resources, etc. if they would unite.

The only reason I have ever heard is that the med schools want to establish their own identity.

Doesn't make sense to me. Can someone shed some light on this issue?
 

Falco2525

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Seems counterintuitive b/c you would think they both would be stronger together than independently. I would think they could save money, build prestige, better utilize resources, etc. if they would unite.

The only reason I have ever heard is that the med schools want to establish their own identity.

Doesn't make sense to me. Can someone shed some light on this issue?

some dont...the University of Chicago-Pritzker school of medicine prides itself as being part of the University and is highly associated with it
 

NY Musicologist

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I worked at the University of Rochester for a couple of years. In one staff orientation/information session, a university administrator--the provost, I think-- described it as "a medical school with a university attached"... :smuggrin:
 
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dantt

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This seems to be the case, especially for schools where the med school is located quite a ways from the undergraduate campus. Weil Cornell in particular comes to mind. It's affiliation with the two surrounding institutions seem to be a lot stronger than its name sake in Ithaca.
 

Pancho Villa

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i always thought it was weird that all the schools made a big deal about their respective situation.

"our medical school is closely associated with the undergrad campus, so you'll be able to interact with others outside of medicine blah blah blah"

or

"our medical school is segregated from the undergrad campus, so you'll be able to concentrate on your studies and not receive interference from a large, people-packed environment blah blah blah"

i dunno. i guess to each his own.
 

armybound

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I always assumed it was for some kind of financial reason, like taxes or being "non-profit" or "for-profit."

In the case of Baylor the medical school and undergrad campus are several hours apart, so it seems to make sense.

Vanderbilt's hospital, medical school, and undergrad/grad campus are all together, so if they were considered separate it would definitely be for some other reason.
 

Falco2525

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I always assumed it was for some kind of financial reason, like taxes or being "non-profit" or "for-profit."

In the case of Baylor the medical school and undergrad campus are several hours apart, so it seems to make sense.

Vanderbilt's hospital, medical school, and undergrad/grad campus are all together, so if they were considered separate it would definitely be for some other reason.

To establish a medical school it has to be able to receive a charter from a University which is why all the medical schools have names associated with the colleges but may not be directly related or a part of the university

For example there is Southwestern University which is just north of Austin in Texas for which Ut Southwestern Med is named
 

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Often, as well, medical schools are attached to hospitals for learning purposes, etc..etc.. (mainly for schools with a university hospital). I doubt you can really have such a setting in the middle or next to an undergraduate institution. The separation often leads to a lack of affiliation with the other schools, both physically and philosophically (namesake, etc..)
 

dugong

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wasnt medical college of wisconsin formerly a part of Marquette? id imagine the inability to get tickets to the student section for Marquette's top 25 Bball team is a reason to be irriated by the current seperation. Im fairly certain that medical students can get student section tickets if their school has an undergrad (of course, im not promoting this as a selection criteria for medical school)
 

riceman04

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I always assumed it was for some kind of financial reason, like taxes or being "non-profit" or "for-profit."

In the case of Baylor the medical school and undergrad campus are several hours apart, so it seems to make sense.

Vanderbilt's hospital, medical school, and undergrad/grad campus are all together, so if they were considered separate it would definitely be for some other reason.

Actually Baylor just did not want to be affiliated with that school...who would want to be affiliated with ANYTHING in crazyland WHAK JOB, Texas.
 

Falco2525

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Actually Baylor just did not want to be affiliated with that school...who would want to be affiliated with ANYTHING in crazyland WHAK JOB, Texas.

actually didnt Baylor start in Dallas but then moved to houston because of the financial tax break Houston gave them to move to the TMC? Then because Baylor left Dallas a sect remained behind and UTSW was born from it?
 

QuantumMechanic

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Seems counterintuitive b/c you would think they both would be stronger together than independently. I would think they could save money, build prestige, better utilize resources, etc. if they would unite.

The only reason I have ever heard is that the med schools want to establish their own identity.

Doesn't make sense to me. Can someone shed some light on this issue?

if you are referring to Baylor, then you have to be kidding me...that med school is infinitely better since it is not associated with the conservative Baptist university.
 

gary5

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This is a bit of an aside, but the last time hilary clinton was president (a la bill), a lot of universities severed their financial ties to their hospitals, because they knew that the "hilary solution" would be financially devastating. If she wins, there'll be another wave of institution severing.
 
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wasnt medical college of wisconsin formerly a part of Marquette? id imagine the inability to get tickets to the student section for Marquette's top 25 Bball team is a reason to be irriated by the current seperation. Im fairly certain that medical students can get student section tickets if their school has an undergrad (of course, im not promoting this as a selection criteria for medical school)

Correct. Marquette voted over 30 years ago to cut MCW loose, essentially because of the hefty bill keeping a medical school open represents to a small private college. MCW decided to remain open by seeking its own funding and judging from the new buildings and parking popping up all over campus seems to be doing quite well at it so far. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Marquette would like to get their hands back on the school at this point, even if it meant giving MCW's administration season tickets to the b-ball team.
 

Captain Fantastic

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Often, as well, medical schools are attached to hospitals for learning purposes, etc..etc.. (mainly for schools with a university hospital). I doubt you can really have such a setting in the middle or next to an undergraduate institution. The separation often leads to a lack of affiliation with the other schools, both physically and philosophically (namesake, etc..)

Unless, of course you are the University of Missouri. ;) MU Health Care is the region's Level 1 Trauma center, teaching hospital and is physically attached to the medical school and nursing school. It's smack-dab in the middle of the action. Perhaps it's an oddity.

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Marquette let MCW go in the early 70s, because up until that point, it was hemorrhaging money (a million a year), and if the school were not affiliated with a private Jesuit institution, it could get state money, which kept it afloat.

Of course, now with $125 million a year in research funding, Marquette probably wishes they could have us back....but we didn't really start taking off until the early nineties.
 

crimsonkid85

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if you are referring to Baylor, then you have to be kidding me...that med school is infinitely better since it is not associated with the conservative Baptist university.
so true. when i was there, baylor repeatedly told us: 'we separated waaaaay back! we have NOTHING to do with baylor in Waco, NOTHING! no really, we wouldn't touch them with a 200 mile stick, so we escaped to houston...' at least, that's the vibe i was getting from them :D
 

greg1184

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Not all of them. In fact at University of Miami the Biochemistry and Microbiology/Immunology department are located in the medical school and come to teach at the undergrad campus.
 

NCF145

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if you are referring to Baylor, then you have to be kidding me...that med school is infinitely better since it is not associated with the conservative Baptist university.

I went to Baylor and found the ultra-conservatives to be very annoying, but they are very easy to get away from. There is a large portion of Baylor that is nothing like the stereotype. Also, the conservative administration and such hurts some of the students that graduate from there. I would argue that we have one of the best pre-med programs in the state; however, with our stereotype I have found/heard that it can hold you back. Many of my interviewers were very surprised to find that we have several MDs, some of which are still practicing, teaching biology courses. In addition, my thesis advisor, is a graduate and distinguished professor from a top 5 medical school.
 
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Sol Rosenberg

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For example there is Southwestern University which is just north of Austin in Texas for which Ut Southwestern Med is named

The University of Texas Southwestern Medical School (a public school) never had anything to do with Southwestern University (a small private LAC.) It is part of the University of Texas System.
 

Falco2525

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The University of Texas Southwestern Medical School (a public school) never had anything to do with Southwestern University (a small private LAC.) It is part of the University of Texas System.

Yes but in order to get the charter to start the school they had to have the permission of Southwestern University
 

Sol Rosenberg

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Yes but in order to get the charter to start the school they had to have the permission of Southwestern University
No. Why? It is a University of Texas School:

www.utsystem.edu

....also, if you are thinking in terms of trademarks, it's not possible to trademark a compass direction.
 

Sol Rosenberg

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so true. when i was there, baylor repeatedly told us: 'we separated waaaaay back! we have NOTHING to do with baylor in Waco, NOTHING! no really, we wouldn't touch them with a 200 mile stick, so we escaped to houston...' at least, that's the vibe i was getting from them :D

Actually, according to this excerpt from Wikipedia (I know wikipedia is suspect as a source) Baylor moved to Houston to KEEP its religious affiliation:

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baylor_University

In 1900, three physicians founded the "University of Dallas Medical Department", in Dallas, despite the fact that a "University of Dallas" did not exist. In 1903, it was acquired by Baylor University and became known as the Baylor College of Medicine, remaining in Dallas. In 1943, Dallas civic leaders wanted to build larger facilities for the university in a new medical center, but only if the College of Medicine would surrender its denominational alliances with the General Baptist Convention. Baylor refused, and with funding from the M. D. Anderson Foundation and others, the College of Medicine moved to Houston. In 1969, the Baylor College of Medicine became independent from Baylor University. However, Baylor University and Baylor College of Medicine have entered into an agreement through the Baylor2 program that provides five Baylor undergraduates with full tuition scholarships and acceptance into Baylor College of Medicine. Additionally, Baylor University President and CEO John M. Lilley is a member of the Baylor College of Medicine Board of Trustees.

Although I don't believe that BCM has a religious affiliation currently, they must have dropped it after 1969 (if this Wikipedia article is true) because it looks like BCM moved to Houston so that it could get more $$$ AND keep its religious affiliation.
 

crimsonkid85

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wow. that's really funny. i guess BCM never said explicitly that they moved away from baylor college because they didn't want to be religiously affiliated. i shouldn't have made assumptions :D but wait. baylor college DOES have religious affilation, no? or is it just a normal school with conservative students?
 

HOLDENc

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If these schools are so proud of their independent status why not drop the name given to them by their slave master a la Cassius Clay?
 

NCF145

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wow. that's really funny. i guess BCM never said explicitly that they moved away from baylor college because they didn't want to be religiously affiliated. i shouldn't have made assumptions :D but wait. baylor college DOES have religious affilation, no? or is it just a normal school with conservative students?

Baylor University is a religious school with religious students. It is a Baptist school. The affiliation doesn't really have any effect on your education though. You do have to take two mandatory religion classes and attend chapel for two semesters. The religion classes were not bad though. Going in to them I thought they were going to be Evangelical Christian propaganda, but they ended up being about the historical events in the Bible. It ended up being a very interesting course. Chapel sucked though. I just used it as an early morning nap.
 

NCF145

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If these schools are so proud of their independent status why not drop the name given to them by their slave master a la Cassius Clay?

Probably b/c they are already recognized by that name, and that is what their reputation is associated with. Drop the name, lose the reputation (at least to the uneducated).
 
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Gobble Town

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Baylor haters..., typical.

Dr. H IS friggin' awesome. Best prof ever!
 

QuantumMechanic

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The religion classes were not bad though. Going in to them I thought they were going to be Evangelical Christian propaganda, but they ended up being about the historical events in the Bible. It ended up being a very interesting course. Chapel sucked though. I just used it as an early morning nap.

http://houstonvoice.com/2005/10-21/news/localnews/

It affects your education if you happen to be a homosexual.
 

armybound

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http://houstonvoice.com/2005/10-21/news/localnews/

It affects your education if you happen to be a homosexual.
you'd have to be a student here to know how homosexuality plays a role. Baylor actually has a very large gay population. you'd be surprised.

the reason Baylor gets such a bad wrap is they kicked a homosexual student out of seminary because he was receiving a scholarship from the school to attend seminary and his sexual preferences "went against the teachings of the church" or some crap like that. I'm not saying I agree with their choice, but it's understandable that the school didn't want to fund the education of an individual they felt was not in-line with what they were teaching him.

gay undergrads get scholarships and attend with absolutely no problem. they don't ask, and if they find out you're gay they don't kick you out.
 

NCF145

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http://houstonvoice.com/2005/10-21/news/localnews/

It affects your education if you happen to be a homosexual.

That cup thing really bothered me, as it did a majority of students. I don't remember speaking to any student that agreed with the decision to pull the cups. On the other hand, it is a Baptist school. Although I do not agree with them on most of their stances, I don't know of any Baptists organizations that openly support homosexuality. So in that regard, no I am not surprised by the decision.

Also, there are plenty of homosexuals that go to Baylor (and are open). I have never seen an act of discrimination against homosexuals by another student. Even with the fact that Baylor does not approve of homosexuality, I do not see how that would affect a homosexual's education or anyone else's for that matter.
 

PDsquash83

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What is weird is UPitt undergrad is public and the medical school is private. Anybody else heard that?
 

LizzyM

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In the case of Cornell, the med school is in NYC because Ithaca was considered too small (in the 1890s) to have adequate resources for clinical education. Some students took pre-clinical classes in Ithaca and then transferred to NYC but that program closed between the first & second World Wars.

I suspect the same is true of UConn (no clinical facilities close to Storrs.)

What other med schools have a similar arrangement?
 

braluk

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Tulane has their undergrad and their medical campus pretty far apart on different sides of the city, but not to the effect that Cornell may be.
 

LizzyM

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What is weird is UPitt undergrad is public and the medical school is private. Anybody else heard that?

Pitt was a private university until 1966 when it became a "state related" university. I suspect that the medical school continued to be able to pay its bills as a private school whereas the rest of university needed State support.

SUNY Buffalo began life as a private medical college expanded into a private University that then became part of the SUNY (State University of NY) system in 1962.
 

baylormed

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what is this? I keep hearing he sings.. he better sing for immunology!

Well, the song is kind of "relevant" to Histology because it's about an Irish maid who murders all her family members and hides the bones, and other silly things like that. It's awesome. :D
 
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