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I feel pretty strongly about this topic, and will share my thoughts, also with hopes of not offending anyone.
I was one of those typical "premeds" that was considered premed for a short while, then quit quickly. I actually dropped the premed track after the first semester of my freshman year in college! Seeing what the premed track entails for the traditional applicant, I'm actually very glad that I instead pursued a post-bacc after getting my first job in corporate America.
Even though I might be a few years behind some people I went to college with, I'm grateful because I was not the type of applicant that so many members on SDN strive to be. I didn't spend my undergraduate college career spending hours studying the sciences, studying for the MCAT, and volunteering away the rest of my free time for a laundry-list of organizations. On the contrary, I actually felt like I enjoyed my time in college. When I pursued my post-bacc, that is when I did my physician shadowing, cookie cutter hospital volunteering, and sporadic non-clinical volunteering (which I actually enjoyed a lot).
I think that the OP definitely has some good points here, which can be applied to the SDN traditional premed that devotes all of college toward the medical school cause, and the non-traditional applicant that spends some time after undergrad working toward the medical school cause. Here is how I see them:
Undergraduate: Okay, I'm a medical student. I'm long out of college. So why do I spend so much time in the pre-allo forum? This is because, given what the reality of being in medical school entails, I feel that too many SDN-type applicants are sacrificing too much of their best years for this. This reminds me of a young child, a preteen, who thinks of themselves as an adult. They don't want to play with toys, they don't want to do kid's menus at restaurants, they don't want to sing songs, they don't want to do many of the things that children their age do because they see themselves as grown-ups. Then years later they look back regretting that they weren't kids.
This is exactly where I see the SDN-type traditional applicants. Of course everyone has to do the mandatory biology, chemistry, physics, and organic chemistry sequences, but the ECs are variable. In a thread pertaining this topic, I came up with a term called "ZERO to Mother Teresa" medical school applicant. This is the type of applicant that previously never volunteered before starting the premed track. But virtually overnight, they went from never having volunteered to suddenly having a laundry-list full of commitments that take up almost all of their non-study time. While these people are very committed to getting into medical school, I feel like they are missing out on other things on life.
This kind of reminds me of the days I used to go to night clubs with my friends. Every time a small group of older adults (in their 40s or 50s) walked in, people would stare. Of course this didn't happen often, but when it did, they would get attention. I'm also sure that a small group of teenagers or people in their 20s playing bingo with a large group of senior citizens would also stand out like a sore thumb. I feel like these college students who are picking up all of these activities are sticking out like a sore thumb. The people I know who extensively volunteer are usually older, either retired or not working (stay at home mom) who have a lot of time on their hands. I've only met a single person in my life who volunteered extensively since she was a kid for genuine reasons. These college students just seem out of place, because spending all of their free time doing these ECs is not something that people in this age group generally do. People in that age group hang out with friends, party, play video games, and do other things that we associate with this age group. What's the reason for forcing ourselves to do all of these things that we probably genuinely don't enjoy? I realize some people on SDN say that they love these activities. But would they have been doing them in the first place had they not considered medical school? In this case, choosing not to do them in the first place doesn't mean that volunteering sucks or anything like that, it just means that they value other things more at the time.
If you've read my other posts, you'll see that I'm generally not a fan of entry-level clinical jobs. Now why is this? I don't have anything against them. But I feel like they are being done so much among premeds, that they probably won't impress ADCOMs the way that the applicant would want, especially given the commitment that the premed would need to give. For example, I worked as a pizza delivery guy in undergrad. I worked a couple days a week at most for 4-5 hours each time. I usually came out with $60+ a night with minimal stress. If I had a busy weekend, I could easily take the time off. I never had to work odd hours or step foot into the pizza place on a weekday. On the contrary, with clinical jobs, I feel like the hours are going to be longer, they do require training, and this can ultimately have a detrimental affect on grades and the MCAT. Given the fact that the applicant is not blazing any new trails with an EMT, CNA, scribe, or phlebotomist position means that if they sacrifice grades in order to do the job, there can be detrimental circumstances. These jobs, while giving the applicant some insight about the medical field, doesn't actually allow them to do what doctors would do. Therefore, you are training and end up working a job that has nothing to do with what a physician actually does on a daily basis. Also, given that so many people now do these entry-level jobs, you might be better off having a more flexible service job, which can allow you to have more interesting stories to tell the ADCOMs versus the same clinical experiences that they hear day after day after day.
I've also heard of applicants who say that they want to get their hands on clinical experiences as soon as possible. Also, based on LizzyM's recent post, we see that some people have very meaningful experiences. I realize you can have some amazing experiences at an entry-level job. But then again, going back to my child growing up too fast example, you will have a WHOLE LIFE TO EXPERIENCE THESE THINGS AS A DOCTOR. Don't grow up too fast, enjoy what you have now.
After college: The OP was referencing to applicants who spend a few years working and volunteering after finishing college to help them with medical school admissions. I think that I might have a biased opinion about this. In terms of my own life, I originally had an airline management position before pursuing a post-bacc. I dropped it in order to do the program. After my post-bacc, I applied to medical school. I was uncertain about whether I would get in or not, so it was important for me to get a job. But instead of getting an entry-level clinical job like some people do, I instead applied for airline jobs once again. I landed a job at a phenomenal company.
In the end, compared to an entry-level clinical job, I made way more money, was able to travel around the country for free, travel around the world for virtually free, and feel like I was still moving forward at the airline. If I managed to even find an entry-level clinical job in my area which is close to impossible, I would have been making $10-$15 without many perks. Also given my screen name (and people like music2doc and law2doc), I feel like having a job completely outside of healthcare gave a somewhat more unique perspective to the application. I'm not trying to brag here or anything. I hope you don't get that impression. I am yet to see a screen name like EMT2doc, CNA2doc, scribe2doc, or phlebotomist2doc, because these are typical entry-level jobs that premeds do in order to get into medical school.
I think the biggest problem a lot of non-trads feel who have not yet started families is that their lives are at a standstill. Currently I'm tens of thousands of dollars in debt, and do not make a penny in income. I would have still felt like I was at a standstill if I had a low paying entry-level clinical job, while most of my friends that graduated college were already making $50,000 a year or more. That's just my perspective.
In fact, non-traditional students that pursue this clinical stuff blow my mind. As a non-traditional student, you already might be at an advantage because you have a more unique background than the traditional applicant straight out of college.
So why would you want to suddenly move back toward the "typical" premed route to medical school, when you can pave a more exciting one? I think the airline experience not only gave me a more unique path, but also left me with a little more money and fun experiences from traveling the world.
This is why I would urge people who are planning on spending a good amount of time out of college to pursue something more unique, rather than starting up the typical path that ADCOMs are more accustomed to seeing.
You see, I don't blame premeds for doing what they do. The end goal is in mind. In that way, I would say that the OP is wrong is criticizing people for doing things that won't matter later. But then again, how is this different from the person who has a philosophy degree, but ends up getting a job in an investment bank? We often don't end up doing what we are implying we want to do. In the case of entry-level clinical work, a premed isn't becoming an EMT because they want to be an EMT as a profession. They are working toward the end goal of medical school. But I think the problem for me is when people entirely devote their lives (just about literally) toward doing these things, which mean nothing to them. I feel bad for the "ZERO to Mother Teresa" volunteers you see all over SDN, because I'm sure that a majority of them would be doing other things besides volunteering their undergraduate years away. I also feel bad for the person out of college that pursues solely entry-level clinical work because they could have had a more unique path that could have probably made them more money too.
But of course, to each his own. It's not my place to say what's right and wrong. Everyone makes their own path and their own perspective.
BUT... The last thing I want to see is these very same people all of a sudden regretting the things they did in medical school, because once you start, you will never be the same again. You will have devoted your entire life to the cause of medicine. You won't have all the time in the world to spend with family and friends anymore. You will be married to your textbooks. So remember, you have the rest of your lives to save the world as a medical professional. But you only have so much time to do those things that we genuinely want to do, so don't throw them away!
I was one of those typical "premeds" that was considered premed for a short while, then quit quickly. I actually dropped the premed track after the first semester of my freshman year in college! Seeing what the premed track entails for the traditional applicant, I'm actually very glad that I instead pursued a post-bacc after getting my first job in corporate America.
Even though I might be a few years behind some people I went to college with, I'm grateful because I was not the type of applicant that so many members on SDN strive to be. I didn't spend my undergraduate college career spending hours studying the sciences, studying for the MCAT, and volunteering away the rest of my free time for a laundry-list of organizations. On the contrary, I actually felt like I enjoyed my time in college. When I pursued my post-bacc, that is when I did my physician shadowing, cookie cutter hospital volunteering, and sporadic non-clinical volunteering (which I actually enjoyed a lot).
I think that the OP definitely has some good points here, which can be applied to the SDN traditional premed that devotes all of college toward the medical school cause, and the non-traditional applicant that spends some time after undergrad working toward the medical school cause. Here is how I see them:
Undergraduate: Okay, I'm a medical student. I'm long out of college. So why do I spend so much time in the pre-allo forum? This is because, given what the reality of being in medical school entails, I feel that too many SDN-type applicants are sacrificing too much of their best years for this. This reminds me of a young child, a preteen, who thinks of themselves as an adult. They don't want to play with toys, they don't want to do kid's menus at restaurants, they don't want to sing songs, they don't want to do many of the things that children their age do because they see themselves as grown-ups. Then years later they look back regretting that they weren't kids.
This is exactly where I see the SDN-type traditional applicants. Of course everyone has to do the mandatory biology, chemistry, physics, and organic chemistry sequences, but the ECs are variable. In a thread pertaining this topic, I came up with a term called "ZERO to Mother Teresa" medical school applicant. This is the type of applicant that previously never volunteered before starting the premed track. But virtually overnight, they went from never having volunteered to suddenly having a laundry-list full of commitments that take up almost all of their non-study time. While these people are very committed to getting into medical school, I feel like they are missing out on other things on life.
This kind of reminds me of the days I used to go to night clubs with my friends. Every time a small group of older adults (in their 40s or 50s) walked in, people would stare. Of course this didn't happen often, but when it did, they would get attention. I'm also sure that a small group of teenagers or people in their 20s playing bingo with a large group of senior citizens would also stand out like a sore thumb. I feel like these college students who are picking up all of these activities are sticking out like a sore thumb. The people I know who extensively volunteer are usually older, either retired or not working (stay at home mom) who have a lot of time on their hands. I've only met a single person in my life who volunteered extensively since she was a kid for genuine reasons. These college students just seem out of place, because spending all of their free time doing these ECs is not something that people in this age group generally do. People in that age group hang out with friends, party, play video games, and do other things that we associate with this age group. What's the reason for forcing ourselves to do all of these things that we probably genuinely don't enjoy? I realize some people on SDN say that they love these activities. But would they have been doing them in the first place had they not considered medical school? In this case, choosing not to do them in the first place doesn't mean that volunteering sucks or anything like that, it just means that they value other things more at the time.
If you've read my other posts, you'll see that I'm generally not a fan of entry-level clinical jobs. Now why is this? I don't have anything against them. But I feel like they are being done so much among premeds, that they probably won't impress ADCOMs the way that the applicant would want, especially given the commitment that the premed would need to give. For example, I worked as a pizza delivery guy in undergrad. I worked a couple days a week at most for 4-5 hours each time. I usually came out with $60+ a night with minimal stress. If I had a busy weekend, I could easily take the time off. I never had to work odd hours or step foot into the pizza place on a weekday. On the contrary, with clinical jobs, I feel like the hours are going to be longer, they do require training, and this can ultimately have a detrimental affect on grades and the MCAT. Given the fact that the applicant is not blazing any new trails with an EMT, CNA, scribe, or phlebotomist position means that if they sacrifice grades in order to do the job, there can be detrimental circumstances. These jobs, while giving the applicant some insight about the medical field, doesn't actually allow them to do what doctors would do. Therefore, you are training and end up working a job that has nothing to do with what a physician actually does on a daily basis. Also, given that so many people now do these entry-level jobs, you might be better off having a more flexible service job, which can allow you to have more interesting stories to tell the ADCOMs versus the same clinical experiences that they hear day after day after day.
I've also heard of applicants who say that they want to get their hands on clinical experiences as soon as possible. Also, based on LizzyM's recent post, we see that some people have very meaningful experiences. I realize you can have some amazing experiences at an entry-level job. But then again, going back to my child growing up too fast example, you will have a WHOLE LIFE TO EXPERIENCE THESE THINGS AS A DOCTOR. Don't grow up too fast, enjoy what you have now.
After college: The OP was referencing to applicants who spend a few years working and volunteering after finishing college to help them with medical school admissions. I think that I might have a biased opinion about this. In terms of my own life, I originally had an airline management position before pursuing a post-bacc. I dropped it in order to do the program. After my post-bacc, I applied to medical school. I was uncertain about whether I would get in or not, so it was important for me to get a job. But instead of getting an entry-level clinical job like some people do, I instead applied for airline jobs once again. I landed a job at a phenomenal company.
In the end, compared to an entry-level clinical job, I made way more money, was able to travel around the country for free, travel around the world for virtually free, and feel like I was still moving forward at the airline. If I managed to even find an entry-level clinical job in my area which is close to impossible, I would have been making $10-$15 without many perks. Also given my screen name (and people like music2doc and law2doc), I feel like having a job completely outside of healthcare gave a somewhat more unique perspective to the application. I'm not trying to brag here or anything. I hope you don't get that impression. I am yet to see a screen name like EMT2doc, CNA2doc, scribe2doc, or phlebotomist2doc, because these are typical entry-level jobs that premeds do in order to get into medical school.
I think the biggest problem a lot of non-trads feel who have not yet started families is that their lives are at a standstill. Currently I'm tens of thousands of dollars in debt, and do not make a penny in income. I would have still felt like I was at a standstill if I had a low paying entry-level clinical job, while most of my friends that graduated college were already making $50,000 a year or more. That's just my perspective.
In fact, non-traditional students that pursue this clinical stuff blow my mind. As a non-traditional student, you already might be at an advantage because you have a more unique background than the traditional applicant straight out of college.
So why would you want to suddenly move back toward the "typical" premed route to medical school, when you can pave a more exciting one? I think the airline experience not only gave me a more unique path, but also left me with a little more money and fun experiences from traveling the world.
This is why I would urge people who are planning on spending a good amount of time out of college to pursue something more unique, rather than starting up the typical path that ADCOMs are more accustomed to seeing.
You see, I don't blame premeds for doing what they do. The end goal is in mind. In that way, I would say that the OP is wrong is criticizing people for doing things that won't matter later. But then again, how is this different from the person who has a philosophy degree, but ends up getting a job in an investment bank? We often don't end up doing what we are implying we want to do. In the case of entry-level clinical work, a premed isn't becoming an EMT because they want to be an EMT as a profession. They are working toward the end goal of medical school. But I think the problem for me is when people entirely devote their lives (just about literally) toward doing these things, which mean nothing to them. I feel bad for the "ZERO to Mother Teresa" volunteers you see all over SDN, because I'm sure that a majority of them would be doing other things besides volunteering their undergraduate years away. I also feel bad for the person out of college that pursues solely entry-level clinical work because they could have had a more unique path that could have probably made them more money too.
But of course, to each his own. It's not my place to say what's right and wrong. Everyone makes their own path and their own perspective.
BUT... The last thing I want to see is these very same people all of a sudden regretting the things they did in medical school, because once you start, you will never be the same again. You will have devoted your entire life to the cause of medicine. You won't have all the time in the world to spend with family and friends anymore. You will be married to your textbooks. So remember, you have the rest of your lives to save the world as a medical professional. But you only have so much time to do those things that we genuinely want to do, so don't throw them away!
