Why do so many go PA/NP/PT etc, rather than Pods?

[capo]

I wonder this. So many people go Physician Asst. or Physical Therapy (Masters or Doctorate) or even Certified Nurse Practitioner -- BEFORE they'll consider pods. Yet pods is a much better lifestyle/income potential/status etc., career?

Anyone know WHY this is still so true? I just saw ads in this week's Newsweek magazine today advertising PA schools, but hardly ever will you see mention of podiatry as a career? Yet in almost all decent size US Hospitals, pods is listed as a physician specialty. Not always are PT's or PA's even listed as a service or department in a hospital?

Ok, just a question I thought I'd throwout to you guys.

Also, I realize the "calling" part of why some people do pods. But the vast majority I think, pick the other careers (and frankly, probably have ZERO desire or "calling" towards those careers) maybe due to shorter training/less indebtedness, etc.

Is it really just an "image" problem podiatry has or an associated "old-school" stigma? Or is it just a lack of exsposure to other healthcare professionals -- through THEIR lack of knowledge -- of what the profession provides/entails and therefore, to the layperson as well?

In retrospect, I hope this isn't a dumb question -- only one that makes one wonder...

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[jonwill]

Why do so many go PA/NP/PT, etc rather than MD, DO, DDS, law, engineering etc?

 

[IlizaRob]

Podiatry is basically a sub-specialty. PA/NP/PT are much broader in terms of areas of the body they deal with. The time and debt is also a huge factor. Unless you are certain that you want to fix feet everyday, then podiatry is not for you. So naturally podiatry will have a smaller amount of interested students. There are many sub-specialties within medicine that are small, rheumatology being one of them with only about 3000 in the country. Imagine if it had a school of its own like podiatry. I wonder how many applicants there would be?

 

[AZPOD Rocks]

Podiatry is basically a sub-specialty. PA/NP/PT are much broader in terms of areas of the body they deal with. The time and debt is also a huge factor. Unless you are certain that you want to fix feet everyday, then podiatry is not for you. So naturally podiatry will have a smaller amount of interested students. There are many sub-specialties within medicine that are small, rheumatology being one of them with only about 3000 in the country. Imagine if it had a school of its own like podiatry. I wonder how many applicants there would be?

I wouldn't apply, lol!

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Podiatry is basically a sub-specialty. PA/NP/PT are much broader in terms of areas of the body they deal with. The time and debt is also a huge factor. Unless you are certain that you want to fix feet everyday, then podiatry is not for you. So naturally podiatry will have a smaller amount of interested students. There are many sub-specialties within medicine that are small, rheumatology being one of them with only about 3000 in the country. Imagine if it had a school of its own like podiatry. I wonder how many applicants there would be?

I think that the time is a factor. It takes 2 years for PA/NP and 3 for DPT. As for the specialization, most of these professions specialize also. Most PAs go into derm, FP, ect just like a physician. Even PTs specialize.

I think that these professions are advertised more than podiatry. For the longest time, I thought podiatrist were a DO/MD. Maybe I'm alone in this ignorance, but I assume this is not true.

 

[krabmas]

I think that the time is a factor. It takes 2 years for PA/NP and 3 for DPT. As for the specialization, most of these professions specialize also. Most PAs go into derm, FP, ect just like a physician. Even PTs specialize.

I think that these professions are advertised more than podiatry. For the longest time, I thought podiatrist were a DO/MD. Maybe I'm alone in this ignorance, but I assume this is not true.

I did not know that podiatry existed until after I took the MCATs. I got a postcard in the mail from NYCPM.

I agree that pod does not advertise enough. This is a huge problem not just in recruiting students but also in getting and educating patients.

A patient with a foot problem or parent with a kid with a foot problem that has never heard of a podiatrist will take the kid to the PCP. The PCP may not know to send the kid to the pod. (I had a foot issue as a kid, the PCP sent for xrays and that was it, the pain eventually went away but it was never treated) so if the PCP does not know or trust pods the patient will not be sent to a pod.

I think this all stems from the APMA's lack of marketing skills. They have PR people but not the best. They need people with ideas and organizational skills. They also need to fund the PR department.
I can say all of this because I worked with them on the latest PR campaign - Podiatrists keep america walking.

I think the APMA should go the way of the ADA. The ADA did a huge campaign in the late 80's/early 90's educating elementary school children about dentistry and tooth care. Dentists went into the schools and taught about oral health. They also advertise on TV and endorse products where the logo actually apears on the product.

The APMA needs to follow that lead. The president of the APMA right now is afraid to advertise on TV and most old pods are afraid of trying new and different PR techniques.

My theory is - if the old way is not working , try something new.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Agreed.

 

[fpr85]

Most people think feet are icky

 

[do-ca]

Most people think feet are icky

Ah, yes, but, "feet are neat!"

 

[scpod]

I think that the time is a factor. It takes 2 years for PA/NP and 3 for DPT...I think that these professions are advertised more than podiatry...

Those are both good thoughts, but I think another problem is that podiatrists are still a very small minority in healthcare. The Bureau of Labor and Statistics says that in 2004 there were 62,000 practicing PAs and 135 PA schools. They also said that here were 155,000 practicing PTs and 205 PT schools. The number of podiatrists in healthcare is so small compared to the other fields that college students just don't look at it as a possibility. They just don't know about it. A lot of college juniors get that mailing after they take the MCAT, but by then most people have made up their minds about their future. Besides, the future PTs and PAs don't even take the MCAT, so they won't get that mailing and may not ever hear about podiatry as a possibility.

 

[i.<3.pharmacy]

I honestly didn't know what a podiatrist was until somewhat recently when I shadowed one!! I knew that they were "foot doctors"... but I thought it was MD that specialized, like a dermatologist or something.

Once I became interested in science my family pushed me towards pharmacy or med school... the run of the mill stuff that everyone knows about. Not once was it ever mentioned that I think about podiatry as a career. When I actually told my parents I was looking into it, they scrunched their faces up at me. Then my dad put his feet out saying "you really want to touch feet like these?! Ewww"!

Yeaaahhhh, talk about support.

 

[capo]

Those are both good thoughts, but I think another problem is that podiatrists are still a very small minority in healthcare. The Bureau of Labor and Statistics says that in 2004 there were 62,000 practicing PAs and 135 PA schools. They also said that here were 155,000 practicing PTs and 205 PT schools. The number of podiatrists in healthcare is so small compared to the other fields that college students just don't look at it as a possibility. They just don't know about it. A lot of college juniors get that mailing after they take the MCAT, but by then most people have made up their minds about their future. Besides, the future PTs and PAs don't even take the MCAT, so they won't get that mailing and may not ever hear about podiatry as a possibility.

I somewhat agree. But I think most people have heard of pods but they think it lacks "luster" as a career and thus, many never look into it seriously. Some students in schools are aware of it, but still think it's tiered below MD/DO's in many minds.

So as was mentioned in numerous threads before, this is still a "sleeper" career that is beginning to be heard of but is still in it's infancy of development in mainstream medicine in many communites.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

It sounds like we are saying similar things. The main area that is deficient is our advertising. If more people know what great things a career in podiatry could offer, their maybe more interest and more business (thus more need). As the future of the APMA, we need to take a serious look at creating a large scale PR movement to get podiatry out to the people.

 

[krabmas]

It sounds like we are saying similar things. The main area that is deficient is our advertising. If more people know what great things a career in podiatry could offer, their maybe more interest and more business (thus more need). As the future of the APMA, we need to take a serious look at creating a large scale PR movement to get podiatry out to the people.

That's what I said!

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

That's what I said!

I give you full credit.

 

[capo]

I give you full credit.

Get a room!... oops

 

[krabmas]

Get a room!... oops

oooh - I can't take all this attention and fighting over me

better get it out now for soon I will be off limits and hitched

Capo - jealousy is not becoming

 

[dpmgrad]

Those are both good thoughts, but I think another problem is that podiatrists are still a very small minority in healthcare. The Bureau of Labor and Statistics says that in 2004 there were 62,000 practicing PAs and 135 PA schools. They also said that here were 155,000 practicing PTs and 205 PT schools. The number of podiatrists in healthcare is so small compared to the other fields that college students just don't look at it as a possibility. They just don't know about it. A lot of college juniors get that mailing after they take the MCAT, but by then most people have made up their minds about their future. Besides, the future PTs and PAs don't even take the MCAT, so they won't get that mailing and may not ever hear about podiatry as a possibility.

Your signature lists that you will be attending LECOM in Florida in the Fall. If so, I wish you the best in DO school.

 

[mrfeet]

I think there are several reasons for the lack of interest in podiatry. As already mentioned on here, I think the biggest reason is that most people are oblivious to the fact that podiatrists have their own schools and their own separate branch of medicine. I like many people did not know that pods were not MD's until a few years ago.

Another reason for the influx of people into these other professions is due to the fact that these professions have (1) shorter education requirements (2) no malpractice insurance (3) well known.

As also mentioned earlier, the AACPM and APMA has not really done a great job with advertising for podiatric education. The statement that there are not many applicants to podiatry because it is a sub-specialty is not a valid reason. Look at dentistry, technically it is a sub-specialty of internal medicine, yet there are over 50 dental schools and a slew of people graduating each year. Or look at optometry, there are over 25 schools. The bottom line is we must get our names out there more for expansion of the profession.

On the flip side, however, people have always respected what we do and most people (even if they don't know anything about podiatry) will go to a podiatrist if they have a foot problem b/c they know that's what we do.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Your signature lists that you will be attending LECOM in Florida in the Fall. If so, I wish you the best in DO school.

Yeah what is up with that?

 

[rekesk]

Once I became interested in science my family pushed me towards pharmacy or med school... the run of the mill stuff that everyone knows about. Not once was it ever mentioned that I think about podiatry as a career. When I actually told my parents I was looking into it, they scrunched their faces up at me. Then my dad put his feet out saying "you really want to touch feet like these?! Ewww"!

Yeaaahhhh, talk about support.

At least they didnt think Podiatry was ghetto, thats what my dad thought of it.

 

[mrfeet]

At least they didnt think Podiatry was ghetto, thats what my dad thought of it.

How exactly did your dad think podiatry was GHETTO???

 

[scpod]

Your signature lists that you will be attending LECOM in Florida in the Fall. If so, I wish you the best in DO school.

It's true. I didn't think that I would like it at first. In fact, I only applied there because someone dared me to do it. However, I absolutely fell in love with the place when I interviewed in early February. The location, facilities, staff, students, PBL learning sytem, and even all those rules that so many people like to complain about were all appealing to me. 5 days later I got an acceptance and I sent in the deposit the next day. Still, I didn't make the final decision right away, but some family related issues lead me to decide that it was my best choice.

 

[capo]

oooh - I can't take all this attention and fighting over me

better get it out now for soon I will be off limits and hitched

Capo - jealousy is not becoming

Haha. I'm not jealous. I like to think of myself as a "promoter"... of genes. Get it?

Anyways, yes best of luck supporting your man with pods. I gotta find me a pods girl though, so I can stay home and be a daddy.

Mr. Mom, ladies?

 

[capo]

How exactly did your dad think podiatry was GHETTO???

Oh man, I've heard EVERYTHING now!

 

[capo]

Haha. I'm not jealous. I like to think of myself as a "promoter"... of genes. Get it?

Anyways, yes best of luck supporting your man with pods. I gotta find me a pods girl though, so I can stay home and be a daddy.

Mr. Mom, ladies?

PS - How do you know for sure I didn't mean, that I was jealous of YOU stealing Feelgood from ME?

Never thought of that did ya?

 

[i.<3.pharmacy]

At least they didnt think Podiatry was ghetto, thats what my dad thought of it.

HAHA! Ghetto podiatrist with bling bling and a Paul Wall grill.

I am in shock at how your dad came to this conclusion.

 

[krabmas]

PS - How do you know for sure I didn't mean, that I was jealous of YOU stealing Feelgood from ME?

Never thought of that did ya?

It never crossed my big head

 

[MLaura]

I actually was accepted to a Podiatry school because I thought it might be a good option for me, plus with the huge increase in diabetes, people will need more podiatrists in the future, and I was hoping to be involved in surgery. While interviewing, the school said that it was just like an MD curriculum except there were extra classes (obviously) and we would be taught by the same professors as the medical school, and then you had 3 years of surgical residency and I thought that was amazing because one of the most appealing things to me about medical school is the actual learning process of it. So that excited me. However it wasn't until the interview day that a lot of the students and faculty told me that most podiatrists don't specialize in surgery and it's very difficult to do that; if you want to do surgery it's probably not the actual fit for you.

So that being said + I didn't like the location of the school that much and couldn't see myself living there at all and being happy, I chose to withdraw my acceptance. Because while I don't actually want to specialize in surgery in MD/DO, I don't really love the idea of solely taking care of feet. (I would have been perfectly happy with it if I could have done surgery on top of that as well.) And truthfully, when you have to dedicate 7-11 years of your life to schooling for your career, it's important that you're happy with it and you want to be there. If there's even a sliver of doubt then it's going to be even more difficult.

(Also, another reason medical school appeals to me is because I get to chose a specialty while schooling. I don't have to decide it now and then realize that I don't love it or something. That would suck.) So that might be another reason why people don't choose it. Hope that helps a little!

 

[ManUnderFire]

I actually was accepted to a Podiatry school because I thought it might be a good option for me, plus with the huge increase in diabetes, people will need more podiatrists in the future, and I was hoping to be involved in surgery. While interviewing, the school said that it was just like an MD curriculum except there were extra classes (obviously) and we would be taught by the same professors as the medical school, and then you had 3 years of surgical residency and I thought that was amazing because one of the most appealing things to me about medical school is the actual learning process of it. So that excited me. However it wasn't until the interview day that a lot of the students and faculty told me that most podiatrists don't specialize in surgery and it's very difficult to do that; if you want to do surgery it's probably not the actual fit for you.

So that being said + I didn't like the location of the school that much and couldn't see myself living there at all and being happy, I chose to withdraw my acceptance. Because while I don't actually want to specialize in surgery in MD/DO, I don't really love the idea of solely taking care of feet. (I would have been perfectly happy with it if I could have done surgery on top of that as well.) And truthfully, when you have to dedicate 7-11 years of your life to schooling for your career, it's important that you're happy with it and you want to be there. If there's even a sliver of doubt then it's going to be even more difficult.

(Also, another reason medical school appeals to me is because I get to chose a specialty while schooling. I don't have to decide it now and then realize that I don't love it or something. That would suck.) So that might be another reason why people don't choose it. Hope that helps a little!

That raises an interesting point. I used to think that MD/DO would allow you to 'choose' a speciality, but then I heard of the 'match' and how it works. If I understood correctly, it sounded to me like the luxury of choice is only for the elite of an already outstanding field.

The rest have to be realistic about their chances at a given residency and therefore, speciality...lest they get scrambled. There is a significant level of luck at play (just like when matching for pod residencies), except with MD/DO...match poorly and one may end up stuck (for a lack of a better word) with an undesired speciality. Mind you, I have heard that it is very possible to match in almost any MD/DO speciality you wish (with the credentials, of course), but that you have to be prepared to match in the middle of nowhere. Someone throw me a bone, or am I out in left field here?

 

[MLaura]

That raises an interesting point. I used to think that MD/DO would allow you to 'choose' a speciality, but then I heard of the 'match' and how it works. If I understood correctly, it sounded to me like the luxury of choice is only for the elite of an already outstanding field.

The rest have to be realistic about their chances at a given residency and therefore, speciality...lest they get scrambled. There is a significant level of luck at play (just like when matching for pod residencies), except with MD/DO...match poorly and one may end up stuck (for a lack of a better word) with an undesired speciality. Mind you, I have heard that it is very possible to match in almost any MD/DO speciality you wish (with the credentials, of course), but that you have to be prepared to match in the middle of nowhere. Someone throw me a bone, or am I out in left field here?

Oh I do agree with that! That's very true (I think!). But it does give me a little more leeway with the residency I end up with, which is something I definitely appreciate.

 

[FootAndAnkle]

That raises an interesting point. I used to think that MD/DO would allow you to 'choose' a speciality, but then I heard of the 'match' and how it works. If I understood correctly, it sounded to me like the luxury of choice is only for the elite of an already outstanding field.

The rest have to be realistic about their chances at a given residency and therefore, speciality...lest they get scrambled. There is a significant level of luck at play (just like when matching for pod residencies), except with MD/DO...match poorly and one may end up stuck (for a lack of a better word) with an undesired speciality. Mind you, I have heard that it is very possible to match in almost any MD/DO speciality you wish (with the credentials, of course), but that you have to be prepared to match in the middle of nowhere. Someone throw me a bone, or am I out in left field here?

Though this is true, even those who have to settle for something they would not have preferred initially, such as IM or FP, can go into something else later after they have some more experience. I know both a surgeon and an anesthesiologist who were IM before deciding to switch. There's even a FP doc in town who went into derm after practicing a while. So even when choices may be limited at one time, further opportunities aren't as strictly defined as for podiatry. I think that's the only drawback to podiatry is if you ever wanted to switch, and one of the reasons fewer people are willing to shell out their money for the degree.

 

[CoffeeMonster]

Though this is true, even those who have to settle for something they would not have preferred initially, such as IM or FP, can go into something else later after they have some more experience. I know both a surgeon and an anesthesiologist who were IM before deciding to switch. There's even a FP doc in town who went into derm after practicing a while. So even when choices may be limited at one time, further opportunities aren't as strictly defined as for podiatry. I think that's the only drawback to podiatry is if you ever wanted to switch, and one of the reasons fewer people are willing to shell out their money for the degree.

It's not so easy to switch. You have to match into the residency you want to switch to (hard when there are freshly minted students desperately competing for spots) and then do the entire length of that residency. It's not like you just get to change your mind one day and easily enter a completely different specialty. I also know some people who switched, and those people all had to forfeit the years they already put into their first residency (one was IM in his third year) and start from the very beginning. In his case, it was 5 more years for gen surg, not to mention the year he had to take a preceptorship while he waited to match. Now try to do that as a practicing physician, not a resident, who has been away from the educational circuit for a while...

Also, I have a hard time believing that a FP doc just "went" into derm. That's literally one of the top 3 hardest specialties to match into (as an MD, let alone a DO), and students will bend over backwards for any sort of competitive edge in matching derm, ortho, etc.

 

[FootAndAnkle]

It's not so easy to switch. You have to match into the residency you want to switch to (hard when there are freshly minted students desperately competing for spots) and then do the entire length of that residency. It's not like you just get to change your mind one day and easily enter a completely different specialty. I also know some people who switched, and those people all had to forfeit the years they already put into their first residency (one was IM in his third year) and start from the very beginning. In his case, it was 5 more years for gen surg, not to mention the year he had to take a preceptorship while he waited to match. Now try to do that as a practicing physician, not a resident, who has been away from the educational circuit for a while...

Also, I have a hard time believing that a FP doc just "went" into derm. That's literally one of the top 3 hardest specialties to match into (as an MD, let alone a DO), and students will bend over backwards for any sort of competitive edge in matching derm, ortho, etc.

Please note that I never said it was easy to switch, rather that it is easier to switch between medical specialties as an M.D. or D.O. than as a podiatrist, which I guarantee is the case since you have 0% chance of changing specialties as a podiatrist. To go into any other medical specialty as a D.P.M. would require significant divesture of four years of income compounded by income lost / debt incurred to pursue a separate degree path, which would then be followed by residency. Although you may have trouble believing a family doctor "went into derm," the fact is that he did (although fortunately your beliefs are whatever you want them to be). While this required his attendance and completion of a dermatology residency, a significant sacrifice, I would argue it would have been greater had he not had an M.D. to begin with. I would also suggest that assuming a resident is better qualified than a practicing physician is not necessarily the case - good physicians continue to learn and gain clinical acumen after residency, which is why residents are taught by attendings, not the other way around (if instead you were referencing the more strenuous schedule, that's just a sacrifice, which is simply what most things worth having require to attain).

 

[CoffeeMonster]

If the FP managed to land a residency in derm then kudos to him, he pulled off an incredibly rare feat. People should know that it's an exception, not the rule. Also, I didn't mean a resident is more qualified than a practicing physician. I just meant that it would be easier for a resident to switch since they are still in that world, compared to an attending who is removed from residencies and connections for letters and maybe even hospital connections in the residency they want to switch into if they've been private practice for a while.

 

[thecrusader]

Good question! I faced this dilemma a few years ago. Originally I was Pre-podiatry/biology major. It wasn't until I shadowed at a podiatrist office that I decided to look for something else. You really have to want to work with feet. I saw the podiatrist do a lot of toe clippings, i didn't particularly enjoy that aspect. Also he didn't really have anything good to say about the field and told me not to be naive. Then after doing further research at the time there was this residency shortage and and how your not guaranteed residency once completing pod school. A few other reasons, I didn't like was the cost of schooling 50k/yr+ and how i'd have to relocate since there aren't any pod schools in my state. So I decided to go to nursing school instead. I went to a cheap public nursing school, and paid of my debt within 8 months. I now have my BSN and will start NP school next fall as a part-time student and will maintain full time employment as a RN which means No loans, no debt, and I don't have to move away from friends or family, there's an NP school near my house. Plus i love the variety of specialties I can work in. I know a few NP's that make 120k/yr which is similar to a pod or pharmacist salary, so overall i'm very happy with my decision. Also, being a male in nursing, it's very easy for me to get a job anywhere.

 

[CardsFan92]

Good question! I faced this dilemma a few years ago. Originally I was Pre-podiatry/biology major. It wasn't until I shadowed at a podiatrist office that I decided to look for something else. You really have to want to work with feet. I saw the podiatrist do a lot of toe clippings, i didn't particularly enjoy that aspect. Also he didn't really have anything good to say about the field and told me not to be naive. Then after doing further research at the time there was this residency shortage and and how your not guaranteed residency once completing pod school. A few other reasons, I didn't like was the cost of schooling 50k/yr+ and how i'd have to relocate since there aren't any pod schools in my state. So I decided to go to nursing school instead. I went to a cheap public nursing school, and paid of my debt within 8 months. I now have my BSN and will start NP school next fall as a part-time student and will maintain full time employment as a RN which means No loans, no debt, and I don't have to move away from friends or family, there's an NP school near my house. Plus i love the variety of specialties I can work in. I know a few NP's that make 120k/yr which is similar to a pod or pharmacist salary, so overall i'm very happy with my decision. Also, being a male in nursing, it's very easy for me to get a job anywhere.

You aren't guaranteed a residency for MD/DO either....

 

[738177]

You aren't guaranteed a residency for MD/DO either....

I'm curious, is there some sort of a "transitional/preliminary year" sort of thing for the unmatched pods?
I know that's a common route pursued by the unmatched MD/DO grads or IMG's.

 

[bobtheweazel]

I'm curious, is there some sort of a "transitional/preliminary year" sort of thing for the unmatched pods?
I know that's a common route pursued by the unmatched MD/DO grads or IMG's.

No, there's not. But the overall residency placement rate for new DPMs is still currently higher than the MD PGY1 residency placement rate (including PGY1 transitional programs), so even if you count the MDs who get into a transitional program, you're still more likely to land a residency as a DPM.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using SDN mobile

 

[FootAndAnkle]

I'm curious, is there some sort of a "transitional/preliminary year" sort of thing for the unmatched pods?
I know that's a common route pursued by the unmatched MD/DO grads or IMG's.

There are preceptorships available, but these are not official transitional years like allopathic/osteopathic graduates have. Opportunities for unmatched DPMs are quite limited, so it's an unfortunate situation to be in for sure. A preceptorship's extra year of tutelage, however, plus the extra time invested in study/research can allow for recovery and resumption of the normal postgraduate course.