Why even have MD if DO=MD+ more training?

[WDeagle]

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DO is not equal to MD in my eyes. I think DOs are excellent physcians. However, the AAMC does more to help promote diversity in medicine (which is the reason I want to be a doctor). Also, all of the nations public medical schools (which focus on inner city and state medical education by charter) are MD. All DOs are private.

What are you trying to say? The reason you want to be a doctor is to promote diversity in medicine? What does that even mean?

What about all the rurally located DO schools? Arent they doing much more for underserved patients than ivory tower MD schools? Last time i checked there was a disproportionate amount of DO's going into primary care who end up in rural or underserved areas.

As far as OMT goes. Yea its pretty stupid. Its good for certain things like back pain, sports med, etc. But if you're not doing PMR, family med, OB, or sports med there is never any opportunity to use it. I spend about half a day every year on OMT studying to get ready for boards. It really doesnt cut into anything important. Who cares if you spent 20 hours or 35 hours learning histo during the first year of med school. There is no possible scenario where that would ever have any affect on you as a physician.

 

[willen101383]

What are you trying to say? The reason you want to be a doctor is to promote diversity in medicine? What does that even mean?

What about all the rurally located DO schools? Arent they doing much more for underserved patients than ivory tower MD schools? Last time i checked there was a disproportionate amount of DO's going into primary care who end up in rural or underserved areas.

As far as OMT goes. Yea its pretty stupid. Its good for certain things like back pain, sports med, etc. But if you're not doing PMR, family med, OB, or sports med there is never any opportunity to use it. I spend about half a day every year on OMT studying to get ready for boards. It really doesnt cut into anything important. Who cares if you spent 20 hours or 35 hours learning histo during the first year of med school. There is no possible scenario where that would ever have any affect on you as a physician.

Lol there actually was not even one accurate statement in esplendear's (sp?) post.

 

[thepoopologist]

Not everyone who gets their MD/DO in the US is a US citizen who plans to stay here.

No, I agree with you. But it's constantly brought up in pre-allo like it is one of the biggest factors to consider when applying, when in fact the majority of students in DO schools are not international students planning to leave when they finish.

 

[patel2]

Osteopathy began as an offshoot from allo due to differing philosophy. Those philosophies have more or less eroded and the current generation of osteo grads often want into allopathic medicine residencies to practice with the same philosophy as MDs. In other words it was an interesting idea that failed the test of time. Which is why merging these wayward children back into the parent allopathic profession probably would be workable at this juncture. Find me one DO coming out of an allopathic residency who really believes he has a different philosophy than his coresidents. You won't. He regards himself as equivalent not just in education, but in philosophy as well. He most likely will keep the OMM forever in his back pocket, never to be used after med school graduation.

True...but won't ever happen though. The AOA already is completely disconnected from most DO students and has no basis to justify it's existence... but at the same time, why would it want to give up all its power? Remember the people who run the AOA are primarily the cranial and OMM cultists that have shrines of AT Still that they fap to nightly

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

True...but won't ever happen though. The AOA already is completely disconnected from most DO students and has no basis to justify it's existence... but at the same time, why would it want to give up all its power? Remember the people who run the AOA are primarily the cranial and OMM cultists that have shrines of AT Still that they fap to nightly

Meh, eventually the old DO's will die and the AOA will be populated by a new breed of DO.

 

[235788]

I think they are equal, however some would argue that because admission standards are higher for most MD schools that MD > DO. I think this belief is no different than someone saying OSU MD > Meharry MD due to admission standards. Lastly, I think all can agree that DO > Caribbean MD

 

[astrocreep96]

I think DO physicians are just as smart and capable as MD physicians (I've had a number of good residents that are DO), however...

The OMM/Manipulation is complete garbage. I've had one DO resident lecture me on manipulation techniques and it sounded like complete trash. I had to stifle a laugh more than once.

The DO degree exists because the AOA/osteopathic schools exist and that's all (and as long as they are making money, the DO degree is not going away).

 

[WDeagle]

I think DO physicians are just as smart and capable as MD physicians (I've had a number of good residents that are DO), however...

The OMM/Manipulation is complete garbage. I've had one DO resident lecture me on manipulation techniques and it sounded like complete trash. I had to stifle a laugh more than once.

The DO degree exists because the AOA/osteopathic schools exist and that's all (and as long as they are making money, the DO degree is not going away).

As a DO student i mostly agree. OMT has its uses for musculoskeletal problems but thats about it.

 

[Decicco]

Lastly, I think all can agree that DO > Caribbean MD

Disagree. Caribbean MD programs and DO programs compete for the same students. Some C-MD and DO schools are even owned by the same people. SGU and the rare other *good* Caribbean schools have solid placement back in the states (mostly New York). C-MD students don't have to learn any garbage manipulation either.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Disagree. Caribbean MD programs and DO programs compete for the same students. Some C-MD and DO schools are even owned by the same people. SGU and the rare other *good* Caribbean schools have solid placement back in the states (mostly New York). C-MD students don't have to learn any garbage manipulation either.

DO graduation and residency placement rates : 95%. C-MD graduation and placement rate at even SGU : ~50% ( Source: MD v.s DO v.s Carib on Pre-Osteo).

 

[IlDestriero]

Disagree. Caribbean MD programs and DO programs compete for the same students. Some C-MD and DO schools are even owned by the same people. SGU and the rare other *good* Caribbean schools have solid placement back in the states (mostly New York). C-MD students don't have to learn any garbage manipulation either.

The reported graduation rates and successful residency placement rates tell a different tune.

 

[235788]

People who go caribb have crap stats or are felons. Yes, I agree St. George is somewhat solid, but you can't base all caribb on one school. Compare the best DO school to St. George and it will still be pretty one sided.

 

[Decicco]

People who go caribb have crap stats or are felons. Yes, I agree St. George is somewhat solid, but you can't base all caribb on one school. Compare the best DO school to St. George and it will still be pretty one sided.

I was explicitly talking about the "rare good" C-MD schools like SGU. You are mischaracterizing their students. For example, the average MCAT is 28 at SGU. The overall mean osteopath MCAT is 25 (meaning that half of DO students score below a 25!).


http://www.aacom.org/resources/bookstore/2006statrpt/Documents/page 9.pdf

http://etalk.sgu.edu/faqs/medfaq.pdf

 

[patel2]

.

 

[PressPforPi]

I was explicitly talking about the "rare good" C-MD schools like SGU. You are mischaracterizing their students. For example, the average MCAT is 28 at SGU. The overall mean osteopath MCAT is 25 (meaning that half of DO students score below a 25!).


http://www.aacom.org/resources/bookstore/2006statrpt/Documents/page 9.pdf

http://etalk.sgu.edu/faqs/medfaq.pdf

Actually, it's ~27 according to the newest CIB. I'd rather go DO than the Carib any day.

 

[NickNaylor]

I was explicitly talking about the "rare good" C-MD schools like SGU. You are mischaracterizing their students. For example, the average MCAT is 28 at SGU. The overall mean osteopath MCAT is 25 (meaning that half of DO students score below a 25!).


http://www.aacom.org/resources/bookstore/2006statrpt/Documents/page 9.pdf

http://etalk.sgu.edu/faqs/medfaq.pdf

If you're so confident in the quality of their education, you should go.

I would pick DO over Caribbean MD any day.

 

[Decicco]

Actually, it's ~27 according to the newest CIB.

I looked it up. It's 26.49

If you're so confident in the quality of their education, you should go.

Although I have absolutely nothing against C-MDs or DOs (they save countless lives on a daily basis), I think I would go to law school (maybe PhD?) before either.

 

[NickNaylor]

Although I have absolutely nothing against C-MDs or DOs (they save countless lives on a daily basis), I think I would go to law school (maybe PhD?) before either.

I think that speaks volumes.

 

[Is This Reality]

I have a better question to this OP

If OMM works so well, why don't MDs use it?

 

[Doc of the Walk]

 

[Is This Reality]

I was explicitly talking about the "rare good" C-MD schools like SGU. You are mischaracterizing their students. For example, the average MCAT is 28 at SGU. The overall mean osteopath MCAT is 25 (meaning that half of DO students score below a 25!).


http://www.aacom.org/resources/bookstore/2006statrpt/Documents/page 9.pdf

http://etalk.sgu.edu/faqs/medfaq.pdf

Friendly advice, Osteopaths are non-physician practicationers of OMM. DOs are osteopathic physicians or just physicians. Using "osteopath" is considered an insult and is not correct. The AOA has a couple articles about this on their website.

I'm willing to give you benefit of the doubt and say you didn't know about the terminology.

 

[235788]

I have a better question to this OP

If OMM works so well, why don't MDs use it?

Because as a DO once told me, its another name for chiropractic techniques that don't pay the bills. Few DO's really do it, none that i've ever met do.

 

[Decicco]

Using "osteopath" is considered an insult and is not correct.

I hadn't heard that before. I looked it up to be sure (2010): http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/osteopath/AN02093

 

[Is This Reality]

I hadn't heard that before. I looked it up to be sure (2010): http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/osteopath/AN02093

Osteopathic physician (DO) and Osteopathic
Medicine are the preferred terminology over osteopath
and osteopathy.
The terms osteopath and osteopathy refer to nonphysician
osteopaths or those trained outside the
United States.

http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-aoa/advocacy/Documents/about-the-aoa-policymakers-reference.pdf

This was written in 2011.

Also, your article was written by a MD, not a DO - just thought I would point that out.

Just so you know 😀

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

I was explicitly talking about the "rare good" C-MD schools like SGU. You are mischaracterizing their students.For example, the average MCAT is 28 at SGU. The overall mean osteopath MCAT is 25 (meaning that half of DO students score below a 25!).


http://www.aacom.org/resources/bookstore/2006statrpt/Documents/page%209.pdf

http://etalk.sgu.edu/faqs/medfaq.pdf

I don't think you understand the difference between a mean and a median...

Not only that, you're comparing all osteopathic schools with only SGU. Maybe you've never taken a statistics/experimental design course before, but that's a pretty big no-no comparison you're making.

 

[Decicco]

I don't think you understand the difference between a mean and a median...

Not only that, you're comparing all osteopathic schools with only SGU. Maybe you've never taken a statistics/experimental design course before, but that's a pretty big no-no comparison you're making.

Kind sir - SGU says that their "average" MCAT is 28. The osteopath "mean" is 26.4. Neither of the above sources discuss median scores. Further, there is nothing wrong with comparing SGU to DO schools. I'm not claiming that SGU represents all Caribbean schools (in fact, quite the opposite is true--SGU is one of the few good Caribbean schools).

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Kind sir - SGU says that their "average" MCAT is 28. The osteopath "mean" is 26.4. Neither of the above sources discuss median scores. Further, there is nothing wrong with comparing SGU to DO schools. I'm not claiming that SGU represents all Caribbean schools (in fact, quite the opposite is true--SGU is one of the few good Caribbean schools).

SGU say's a lot of things... Anyways it doesn't matter what their average is, when the "osteopath" has almost twice as high a chance of finishing his/her degree and getting in his/her residency of choice. It's the best carib school, but that doesn't say much when only 50% of their starting class makes it into an IM residency in the middle of nowhere. This as opposed to a DO who has a relatively easy time matching into almost every specialty.

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

Kind sir - SGU says that their "average" MCAT is 28. The osteopath "mean" is 26.4. Neither of the above sources discuss median scores. Further, there is nothing wrong with comparing SGU to DO schools. I'm not claiming that SGU represents all Caribbean schools (in fact, quite the opposite is true--SGU is one of the few good Caribbean schools).

I don't think you understood what I was saying. A mean doesn't mean that half the students scored less than the mean, like you wrongly said. That's the definition of a median, not a mean.

 

[BMEN]

Between comparing SGU and Do schools, wouldnt it be more appropriate to compare SGU and the best of DO since you are trying to compare the best of one to a general of the others? just wondering

 

[Decicco]

I don't think you understood what I was saying. A mean doesn't mean that half the students scored less than the mean, like you wrongly said. That's the definition of a median, not a mean.

...I am making the assumption that the median is near the mean. I suppose that maybe 45% could have scored below the mean (or 40%? 35%?). This argument seems a bit forced.

Between comparing SGU and Do schools, wouldnt it be more appropriate to compare SGU and the best of DO since you are trying to compare the best of one to a general of the others? just wondering

Of course you could do this, but you would be answering a different question. This discussion stemmed from a commenter who said that Caribbean students "have crap stats or are felons." I am pointing out that the students at the good C-MD schools, like SGU, have better stats than the average osteopathic schools.

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

Between comparing SGU and Do schools, wouldnt it be more appropriate to compare SGU and the best of DO since you are trying to compare the best of one to a general of the others? just wondering

Yea, that would be the ideal/correct comparison to make. Assuming that SGUs posted "data" is actually accurate...

...I am making the assumption that the median is near the mean. I suppose that maybe 45% could have scored below the mean (or 40%? 35%?). This argument seems a bit forced.

Not always a good assumption to make...What data are you basing this assumption on? I've only ever seen the data for the means, so if you have information regarding medians, etc, please post.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

...I am making the assumption that the median is near the mean. I suppose that maybe 45% could have scored below the mean (or 40%? 35%?). This argument seems a bit forced.

The mean is very sensitive, it can be easily drawn down or up significantly by an outlier.

 

[BMEN]

Yea, that would be the ideal/correct comparison to make. Assuming that SGUs posted "data" is actually accurate...

I dont think it would be inaccurate.

Im guessing if you wanted to make a case between Caribbean and DO, you either have to compare the average( of all schools, scores, placement) or the best/worst of both side by side to have some kind of objectivity. I dunno if this is a faulty way of looking at it though.

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

The mean is very sensitive, it can be easily drawn down or up significantly by an outlier.

Exactly.

Edit: Either way, it doesn't matter what the avg. MCAT score is between MD, DO, and Caribbean. This thread was regarding medical training, so it'd be more important to look at residency placement/success, etc. And when we look at those metrics, MD/DO >>>>>> Caribbean.

 

[Longshanks]

Kind sir - SGU says that their "average" MCAT is 28. The osteopath "mean" is 26.4. Neither of the above sources discuss median scores. Further, there is nothing wrong with comparing SGU to DO schools. I'm not claiming that SGU represents all Caribbean schools (in fact, quite the opposite is true--SGU is one of the few good Caribbean schools).

Yeah, but you're failing to realize your mistake, which Kaushik has pointed out. Even a 10 year old would realize you don't compare two different things or groups like that. If you want to compare the "best" Caribbean school to DO schools, then you don't compare it to the whole lot but to the "best" DO schools (PCOM, CCOM, TCOM, NYCOM, etc), which sorry to break it to you, but attract better applicants both number-wise and understanding of their future careers than gambling on a ponzi scheme in the Caribbean.

 

[Diallelus]

Yeah, but you're failing to realize your mistake, which Kaushik has pointed out. Even a 10 year old would realize you don't compare two different things or groups like that. If you want to compare the "best" Caribbean school to DO schools, then you don't compare it to the whole lot but to the "best" DO schools (PCOM, CCOM, TCOM, NYCOM, etc), which sorry to break it to you, but attract better applicants both number-wise and understanding of their future careers than gambling on a ponzi scheme in the Caribbean.

That's absurd. He's only saying that SGU is in the same league as DO schools, not that the Caribbean in general is. There's nothing wrong with saying that, either. Any comparison is valid so long as it is honest.

If I said that the best high school basketball player in the country could beat the average college player one-on-one, would you blow your whistle again and tell me that I simply must compare the best high school player to the very best college player, or realize the proper scope of my argument and admit I had a point?

 

[RogueUnicorn]

if you're making the argument that sgu is comparable to us do schools by admissions standards, then it's completely fair to compare sgu to the us do average. experimental design? really? tell me how your experimental design class taught you this is a fallacy

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

if you're making the argument that sgu is comparable to us do schools by admissions standards, then it's completely fair to compare sgu to the us do average. experimental design? really? tell me how your experimental design class taught you this is a fallacy

That's my fault. I misunderstood Decicco's posts. I thought he/she was using SGU as representative of Caribbean schools. That's why I said it was a poor comparison.

Anyways, that's my bad. I feel silly now.

 

[BMEN]

If thats the case then yes use the average of the DO schools. But keep in mind that some of those schools are on the upper echelon of DO schools with about same ease/difficulty of getting in

 

[libraryismyhome]

Because hot chicks prefer MDs than DOs.

 

[patel2]

That's absurd. He's only saying that SGU is in the same league as DO schools, not that the Caribbean in general is. There's nothing wrong with saying that, either. Any comparison is valid so long as it is honest.

If I said that the best high school basketball player in the country could beat the average college player one-on-one, would you blow your whistle again and tell me that I simply must compare the best high school player to the very best college player, or realize the proper scope of my argument and admit I had a point?

agreed. it's fair to compare SGU as in the same league as many DO schools, perhaps as even better than the average.

But the wider point the poster was ignoring was how irrelevant this is. Even if SGU had a 36 MCAT average, it would still be a worse decision to attend than the low-tier DO schools, simply based on it's abysmal 60% match rate. Who cares how strong the students at SGU are or how high the standards are of the school, in light of this? Clearly there are forces far beyond student quality that are preventing many of them from matching, solely based on their FMG status.

 

[ozzi22]

Because hot chicks prefer MDs than DOs.

I'm not sure hot chicks no the difference b/w MD and DO 🙄

 

[Decicco]

A select group of people on this forum (apparently even a few moderators) are so defensive about this topic that it's not even worth talking about. I suggest the OP and others wondering about these issues talk to people they trust (ie, not trying to justify their own circumstance) face-to-face. From my experience, most people actually in medicine understand these issues well.

 

[Is This Reality]

I don't think anyone here is being defensive. I just think you're attacking a large portion of the physician community (DOs). You cite "higher" statistics for SGU vs. DO schools on average, and while I disagree with your method of obtaining these statistics for the sake of this debate let us accept your information as true.

In the most recent match a little over 50percent of SGU graduates matched. While a little over 70 percent of DOs match MD residencies. You also have to remember that DOs also match into AOA which removes them ACGME automatically. BUT, let us for argument just assume we're talking about MD residencies or we assume that no one matches into DO residencies (which is obviously unlikely)


Premise 1: DO schools match 70 percent, SGU one of the top, if not the "top", matchs over 50 percent.

Premise 2: 70 is greater than 50.

Conclusion: If premise 1 and premise 2 are true, then DO must be a superior option over SGU. Therefore, If SGU is the top Caribbean program, DO schools are superior to Caribbean programs.

If you can't obtain a residency you essentially have a degree that's worth less than the paper it's printed on. So it doesn't matter if SGU has higher admission standards than Harvard if there is significantly less opportunity available to them.

Problem?

 

[Farcus]

I don't think anyone here is being defensive. I just think you're attacking a large portion of the physician community (DOs). You cite "higher" statistics for SGU vs. DO schools on average, and while I disagree with your method of obtaining these statistics for the sake of this debate let us accept your information as true.

In the most recent match a little over 50percent of SGU graduates matched. While a little over 70 percent of DOs match MD residencies. You also have to remember that DOs also match into AOA which removes them ACGME automatically. BUT, let us for argument just assume we're talking about MD residencies or we assume that no one matches into DO residencies (which is obviously unlikely)


Premise 1: DO schools match 70 percent, SGU one of the top, if not the "top", matchs over 50 percent.

Premise 2: 70 is greater than 50.

Conclusion: If premise 1 and premise 2 are true, then DO must be a superior option over SGU. Therefore, If SGU is the top Caribbean program, DO schools are superior to Caribbean programs.

If you can't obtain a residency you essentially have a degree that's worth less than the paper it's printed on. So it doesn't matter if SGU has higher admission standards than Harvard if there is significantly less opportunity available to them.

Problem?

Give this guy a medal. Its not rocket science guys or nephrology guys.

 

[Skippygonenuts]

MD and DOs don't spend different amount of time in school. For any time dedicated to manipulation, DO will be deficient in the time spent on something else that MD has.

"DO = MD + manipulation" as a phrase is ultimatly simplistic of a more complicated situation. I think DOs simply say that as an easy answer to casuals. I doubt anyone really believes that they have the same exact education as MDs plus they learned more things.

Remember, many DOs not only take the COMLEX but also opt to take the USMLE and many of them even outscore many MDs, even though so many hours were dedicated to OMM which isn't even tested on the USMLE...just pointingout that observation..take it for what it's worth.

Not true. PhD's can't do research that requires them to do clinical work. MDs are critical to medical research.

You do realize that there are several DO/PhD programs out there? Or the close to 30 schools, 8 already have DO/PhD programs, and many more will catch on sooner or later. Granted, we don't have as many DO/PhDs as we have MD/PhDs, but we also don't have as many DO's as we have MD's, but I think the percentages may be comparable.

http://www.physicianscientists.org/careers/training/do-phd


Just saying...if the argument that MD is better is because more MD schools have PhD programs, sooner or later with the expanding DO schools, that argument won't stand...

 

[Aphtalyfe]

I don't think anyone here is being defensive. I just think you're attacking a large portion of the physician community (DOs). You cite "higher" statistics for SGU vs. DO schools on average, and while I disagree with your method of obtaining these statistics for the sake of this debate let us accept your information as true.

In the most recent match a little over 50percent of SGU graduates matched. While a little over 70 percent of DOs match MD residencies. You also have to remember that DOs also match into AOA which removes them ACGME automatically. BUT, let us for argument just assume we're talking about MD residencies or we assume that no one matches into DO residencies (which is obviously unlikely)


Premise 1: DO schools match 70 percent, SGU one of the top, if not the "top", matchs over 50 percent.

Premise 2: 70 is greater than 50.

Conclusion: If premise 1 and premise 2 are true, then DO must be a superior option over SGU. Therefore, If SGU is the top Caribbean program, DO schools are superior to Caribbean programs.

If you can't obtain a residency you essentially have a degree that's worth less than the paper it's printed on. So it doesn't matter if SGU has higher admission standards than Harvard if there is significantly less opportunity available to them.

Problem?

Where is everyone getting the 50-60% match rate for SGU graduates? Can anyone please link me a source?

At American University of the Caribbean (one of the other well known Caribbean schools) one of the graduates took the number of people at his commencement and divided that by the match list and got 87%. Another person did the same for his year and got 84%.

I find it very hard to believe that SGU has anywhere near a 50-60% match rate of its graduates.

I would also like to mention for what its worth, that I think DO > CaribMD... and that I currently attend a US allopathic school, but I used to attend a Caribbean school.

 

[Longshanks]

Where is everyone getting the 50-60% match rate for SGU graduates? Can anyone please link me a source?

At American University of the Caribbean (one of the other well known Caribbean schools) one of the graduates took the number of people at his commencement and divided that by the match list and got 87%. Another person did the same for his year and got 84%.

I find it very hard to believe that SGU has anywhere near a 50-60% match rate of its graduates.

I would also like to mention for what its worth, that I think DO > CaribMD... and that I currently attend a US allopathic school, but I used to attend a Caribbean school.

People get the 50-60% from using the entering class size, meaning that a significant portion of the class either doesn't graduate, remediates at some point, takes a year(s) off before applying for residency or simply doesn't ever gain a residency position. The 80s% is from just looking at those who graduate. People tend to use the former since it's mote relevant for incoming MS-1s but also since some of the Caribbean schools are cryptic in releasing their actual class size or graduating class numbers.

 

[patel2]

Where is everyone getting the 50-60% match rate for SGU graduates? Can anyone please link me a source?

At American University of the Caribbean (one of the other well known Caribbean schools) one of the graduates took the number of people at his commencement and divided that by the match list and got 87%. Another person did the same for his year and got 84%.

I find it very hard to believe that SGU has anywhere near a 50-60% match rate of its graduates.

I would also like to mention for what its worth, that I think DO > CaribMD... and that I currently attend a US allopathic school, but I used to attend a Caribbean school.

sure, technically they have a "90-100%" match rate. But the way Carib school administrations handle statistics is similar to the way Kim Jong Il and Sadam Hussein reported the election results where they each won 100% of the vote. the real match rate is ((.9*number of people at commencement) / (total number of people at the whitecoat ceremony)) * 100.

 

[Aphtalyfe]

People get the 50-60% from using the entering class size, meaning that a significant portion of the class either doesn't graduate, remediates at some point, takes a year(s) off before applying for residency or simply doesn't ever gain a residency position. The 80s% is from just looking at those who graduate. People tend to use the former since it's mote relevant for incoming MS-1s but also since some of the Caribbean schools are cryptic in releasing their actual class size or graduating class numbers.

sure, technically they have a "90-100%" match rate. But the way Carib school administrations handle statistics is similar to the way Kim Jong Il and Sadam Hussein reported the election results where they each won 100% of the vote. the real match rate is ((.9*number of people at commencement) / (total number of people at the whitecoat ceremony)) * 100.

While I would agree that the attrition rate (true attrition as in leaving the school) is much higher at Caribbean schools... I think a large part of that has to do with the average caliber of student.

In order for the "modified" match rate to be 50% that would mean a significant number of people must be failing or dropping out. Even at AUC the true attrition is probably less than 15% and SGU's student base enters with even higher stats.