Why is there a stigma attached to wanting to own "fancy cars" on SDN?

[MedicineZ0Z]

And I find it comical when people who don't yet have a doctors income (and are at best "Facebook friends" with those who do) but are somehow experts on what those with attending incomes can afford. The days of doctors having such disposable income that they can afford spending six digits on cars they don't use is over. And having two cars means garaging two cars, insuring two cars, maintaining two cars even if the price tag isn't crazy ( although the figures you listed for maintenance actually would be a much bigger bite out of people's incomes than most would want to spend on their second car). It's expensive even if your second car is a Toyota, let alone a Ferrari.

If your point is that, like OP, you could live with your parents eating Raman and have a luxury car sitting in a garage someplace, I think we've already addressed this -- but for most that's the comical situation.

We've already addressed this -- can you live like crap but have a nice car in the garage? Perhaps. But you'll probably not have that second luxury automobile to drive around in, and I suspect quickly grow out of this notion, which I think only really has wings on the high school board.

Write back in 20 years when/if you are in the socioeconomic position to afford all this - I suspect it will be an amusing (comical) read.

I find it amusing that right now NFL teams are all putting on seminars for their rookies on how now to end up broke and a lot of the mindsets they are trying to break regarding fancy cars and unrealistic and unnecessary expenditures are found on this thread.

I'm in the minority and don't have any loans + I currently drive an audi. But at least two of the docs who own more than one nice car had loans throughout their time in med school and residency. The attendings I know and ones I've spoken to all say the same thing. If your goal is money you can orient your practice to maximize income + do various side tasks to supplement your income.

Insuring an audi + a lambo isn't even as remotely as expensive as you think. A lambo can be insured for 200$/month or even less. Maintenance costs (as I listed) are probably a fraction of what you thought they would be. If you want to go out and BUY an aventador then sure it'll reflect what you envision. But if you're leasing something that isn't super exotic, what's the problem? There are teachers and engineers who don't even make 100k who lease nice BMWs. Keep that in mind.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

What do you mean by "six digit cars they don't use"? I thought the joke was that doctors have so little free time that the only time they can enjoy themselves in on the drive to or from the hospital.

So to clarify:
- You're saying the days of having a disposable income that is more than what most others have is over
Well, I guess that's fine with me as long as I have as much free time as most others professionals do if I'm not being compensated monetarily for working 80 hours a week

- Physicians work 70-80 hours a week and basically dedicate their lives to the profession; it's difficult to have time for a family, maintain hobbies, or sleep adequately.
Alright, so I'm going to be working overtime, constantly stressed out and sleep deprived. I will have little time and money to pursue the hobbies I care for like restoring cars. Okay, sounds pretty unappealing so far, but maybe it will ultimately be worth the sacrifice because I will have autonomy and respect from the public.
- People on SDN: Doctors are losing autonomy and socialized medicine is becoming a reality; more doctors will be working for large hospitals. The 'doctor status' is dying too as more people see it as a regular job and physicians as crooks who rip you off for a 15 minute checkup.
Umm. So no money, no autonomy, no respect, no time, no life, no health. So it seems to me now that the only reason I should consider this field is if if I want to basically enslave myself. Yet, demand for physicians is going up but getting into a medical school isn't any easier nor is the lifestyle or salary improving. I'm utterly confused.

You said previously that you have to like the lifestyle to be successful at the job. Does that encompass just the stress and late shifts at the hospital or the whole not having a life and being a slave part?

I'm sorry but this doesn't make any sense to me anymore. I'm baffled.

Let me give you a more realistic point of view. The money is still there but you'll have to pursue it harder. The hours ARE long and hard but you do have the ability to work less. If you run the social media hard and market your practice effectively you can increase your income per hour. I own a small business that does marketing for businesses and a big chunk are docs (lots of cosmetics ones). A little bit of effective marketing spikes your income A LOT.
Doctors ARE also losing status but so is every other job. We're still ahead of lawyers/dentists and other high end jobs (easily). And we're only below the elite jobs (ex. celebrity, high end CEO, etc.). But yea the public's perception of a doctor isn't as high as it was during the 80s for example. Same reason people have such high standards for dating nowadays or why so many people are so unhappy with life. Blame social media for overexposing peoples' eyes to everything.

 

[SitraAchra]

Let me give you a more realistic point of view. The money is still there but you'll have to pursue it harder. The hours ARE long and hard but you do have the ability to work less. If you run the social media hard and market your practice effectively you can increase your income per hour. I own a small business that does marketing for businesses and a big chunk are docs (lots of cosmetics ones). A little bit of effective marketing spikes your income A LOT.
Doctors ARE also losing status but so is every other job. We're still ahead of lawyers/dentists and other high end jobs (easily). And we're only below the elite jobs (ex. celebrity, high end CEO, etc.). But yea the public's perception of a doctor isn't as high as it was during the 80s for example. Same reason people have such high standards for dating nowadays or why so many people are so unhappy with life. Blame social media for overexposing peoples' eyes to everything.

Your entire game plan is to spend money as soon as you earn it. I guarantee that any doctor who goes around in a $250k car doesn't have the financial discipline to live within their means in other aspects of their lives either. These people also live in $1M homes, maintain $30,000/year country club memberships, and go on multiple $10,000+ European vacations each year.

Living this lifestyle sounds fun, but what happens when you're 60 years old with only $250,000 in retirement? The key to a good life as a physician these days is being able to retire comfortably, but continuing to work only if the environment suits you. This is known as "F U Money" - and all the toys in the world don't give you financial independence.

Since I am an actual doctor done with residency in the higher income category of physicians - not ortho spine, but not pediatrics either, I can firmly tell you that the lifestyle you're talking about is unsustainable. I can also guarantee you that the facebook friends you have that are out practicing and driving anything more expensive than an $80k car don't have the financial discipline to prepare themselves for retirement at a reasonable age. No one is going to drive a Ferarri and live in a 2500sq ft 3 bed 2.5 bath home - it doesn't happen.

This is just a fun fantasy thread, but in the real world, those who have $5-7M at age 55-60 and are working just for kicks are the real winners.

 

[typhoonegator]

Your entire game plan is to spend money as soon as you earn it. I guarantee that any doctor who goes around in a $250k car doesn't have the financial discipline to live within their means in other aspects of their lives either. These people also live in $1M homes, maintain $30,000/year country club memberships, and go on multiple $10,000+ European vacations each year.

Living this lifestyle sounds fun, but what happens when you're 60 years old with only $250,000 in retirement? The key to a good life as a physician these days is being able to retire comfortably, but continuing to work only if the environment suits you. This is known as "F U Money" - and all the toys in the world don't give you financial independence.

Since I am an actual doctor done with residency in the higher income category of physicians - not ortho spine, but not pediatrics either, I can firmly tell you that the lifestyle you're talking about is unsustainable. I can also guarantee you that the facebook friends you have that are out practicing and driving anything more expensive than an $80k car don't have the financial discipline to prepare themselves for retirement at a reasonable age. No one is going to drive a Ferarri and live in a 2500sq ft 3 bed 2.5 bath home - it doesn't happen.

This is just a fun fantasy thread, but in the real world, those who have $5-7M at age 55-60 and are working just for kicks are the real winners.

This is a fantastic post. Sadly, we can go ahead and cue up the inevitable "YOLO! Too bad you don't know how to invest, brah! I'll be single in my shack with my Ferrari day-trading my ass off! Also, I'm totally Facebook friends with this guy who has a hedge fund. He'll hook me up, brah!"

 

[SitraAchra]

This is a fantastic post. Sadly, we can go ahead and cue up the inevitable "YOLO! Too bad you don't know how to invest, brah! I'll be single in my shack with my Ferrari day-trading my ass off! Also, I'm totally Facebook friends with this guy who has a hedge fund. He'll hook me up, brah!"

Amen. The financial acumen of doctors is shocking sometimes. We are in no way prepared to do day trading or investing in any kind of single company. If you take the advice of some and try to use your medical knowledge to give you an edge on investing, just google "theranos" and read what's currently happening.

People were frothing at the mouth to throw money at this company because we have a distorted view on how we can apply our knowledge to Wall Street.

Boring, well-diversified index funds that you don't mess with for years at a time are the true path to riches people!

 

[jeffk805dent]

If you take the advice of some and try to use your medical knowledge to give you an edge on investing, just google "theranos" and read what's currently happening.

Theranos sounds like some Game of Thrones character or city.

 

[Kurk]

I know (not personally) a college senior who owns a Lamborghini Gallardo, an older BMW M5, and a new Mercedes S550 on a lease. He apparently was able to afford the Lambo due to one of those engineering programs which pay you 2/3 the salary of a starting engineer at a firm. He also didn't have any college debt to hinder him and made a good return on an investment. Other than the cars, he lives a frugal lifestyle just like any other college student. It was his passion for cars (not status symbols) that drove his decision. I still don't see how this isn't attainable at some point.

 

[Law2Doc]

...I still don't see how this isn't attainable at some point.

And therein lies the problem. The guy with 3 luxury cars on "2/3 of an engineering salary" likely has a lot more debt and a lot less savings than he ought. Don't kid yourself.

If you are "living frugally" and spending everything on cars, garages, maintenance, insurance, unexpected things can throw your life into turmoil and bankruptcy. The lifestyle you are describing is what a rapper might do with his first big payday and end up broke before 30. It's why 50 Cent and MC Hammer are broke now. You don't want to put much of your income into wasting assets. "YOLO" is the battle cry of suckers who made bad decisions. You aren't going to see successful professionals spouting this, just the Jersey Shore crowd.

I get it -- Money goes a lot further in your daydreams as a high schooler. When I was 17 I thought I'd be "rich" just earning what the typical resident earns now. You'll grow out of it. SitraAchra above is spot on. Financial savvy isn't fun, isn't sexy, but you'll have a better "life" instead of a better decade if you play it straight and treat each dollar like it's gotta last.

 

[SitraAchra]

I know (not personally) a college senior who owns a Lamborghini Gallardo, an older BMW M5, and a new Mercedes S550 on a lease. He apparently was able to afford the Lambo due to one of those engineering programs which pay you 2/3 the salary of a starting engineer at a firm. He also didn't have any college debt to hinder him and made a good return on an investment. Other than the cars, he lives a frugal lifestyle just like any other college student. It was his passion for cars (not status symbols) that drove his decision. I still don't see how this isn't attainable at some point.

College senior..."able to afford a Gallardo" - dude. You're embarrassing yourself. No one believes that.

 

[Kurk]

College senior..."able to afford a Gallardo" - dude. You're embarrassing yourself. No one believes that.

There you go

 

[eteshoe]

There you go

YouTube Money + (Lucky) Investments. I worked as an engineer - you don't tend to make that much money unless you're working full time for the big drilling companies or microsoft/google/amazon.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

Your entire game plan is to spend money as soon as you earn it. I guarantee that any doctor who goes around in a $250k car doesn't have the financial discipline to live within their means in other aspects of their lives either. These people also live in $1M homes, maintain $30,000/year country club memberships, and go on multiple $10,000+ European vacations each year.

Living this lifestyle sounds fun, but what happens when you're 60 years old with only $250,000 in retirement? The key to a good life as a physician these days is being able to retire comfortably, but continuing to work only if the environment suits you. This is known as "F U Money" - and all the toys in the world don't give you financial independence.

Since I am an actual doctor done with residency in the higher income category of physicians - not ortho spine, but not pediatrics either, I can firmly tell you that the lifestyle you're talking about is unsustainable. I can also guarantee you that the facebook friends you have that are out practicing and driving anything more expensive than an $80k car don't have the financial discipline to prepare themselves for retirement at a reasonable age. No one is going to drive a Ferarri and live in a 2500sq ft 3 bed 2.5 bath home - it doesn't happen.

This is just a fun fantasy thread, but in the real world, those who have $5-7M at age 55-60 and are working just for kicks are the real winners.

It's why you achieve a balance while also maximizing income. If you finish residency at 30, you live hard until 40 then slow down. Saving to live when you're 60 and at risk for cancer-heart disease-dementia-stroke while also having back pain and erectile dysfunction and so on is quite dumb. Live life when you can. Invest and make a plan in the long run but what's the point of working so hard only to live slightly better than the average person?

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

This is a fantastic post. Sadly, we can go ahead and cue up the inevitable "YOLO! Too bad you don't know how to invest, brah! I'll be single in my shack with my Ferrari day-trading my ass off! Also, I'm totally Facebook friends with this guy who has a hedge fund. He'll hook me up, brah!"

And therein lies the problem. The guy with 3 luxury cars on "2/3 of an engineering salary" likely has a lot more debt and a lot less savings than he ought. Don't kid yourself.

If you are "living frugally" and spending everything on cars, garages, maintenance, insurance, unexpected things can throw your life into turmoil and bankruptcy. The lifestyle you are describing is what a rapper might do with his first big payday and end up broke before 30. It's why 50 Cent and MC Hammer are broke now. You don't want to put much of your income into wasting assets. "YOLO" is the battle cry of suckers who made bad decisions. You aren't going to see successful professionals spouting this, just the Jersey Shore crowd.

I get it -- Money goes a lot further in your daydreams as a high schooler. When I was 17 I thought I'd be "rich" just earning what the typical resident earns now. You'll grow out of it. SitraAchra above is spot on. Financial savvy isn't fun, isn't sexy, but you'll have a better "life" instead of a better decade if you play it straight and treat each dollar like it's gotta last.

Right... cause enjoying life and not delaying gratification until you're 65 years old is bad.

As a physician you'll be living in a solid home anyway. Leasing a high end car in your 30s isn't a massive financial burden that'll ruin your retirement. If you're clueless on the costs then you may think that. But based on the numbers that isn't reality.

 

[SitraAchra]

The amount of dumb teenage comments that just popped up is hilarious. You guys are so incredibly naive, saying things like "YouTube money" and equating that to being able to afford a Lamborgini, lol.

There's a difference between being able to purchase something and being able to AFFORD something, and some day you'll figure it out.

I can't keep arguing with teenagers and early 20-somethings who still have posters on their walls. You can't understand the actual reality of finance and things called unforeseen expenses, emergency accounts, Roth IRA, 401k, 529 plans, HSA's ect.

I know what I said to you sounds Greek, but some day it will mean more than a $250k toy that loses $40k as soon as you drive it off the lot.

You can always do creative accounting to justify a stupid purchase. We all have. But a major purchase like a home or car that's too expensive is a dangerous thing.

Some day you guys will grow up, but the more you argue the more you cement in every adult's mind that you are still a kid. That's fine, but arguing with people who actually make a lot of
money and still tell you it's a stupid idea makes you look foolish.

 

[typhoonegator]

Right... cause enjoying life and not delaying gratification until you're 65 years old is bad.

As a physician you'll be living in a solid home anyway. Leasing a high end car in your 30s isn't a massive financial burden that'll ruin your retirement. If you're clueless on the costs then you may think that. But based on the numbers that isn't reality.

I am a physician, actually both my wife and I are subspecialist physicians, and we do live in a solid home. Good daycare and a nanny share in a decent city will cost you substantially more than the payments on that Gallardo. In fact, they cost as much or more than what mommy and daddy are going to pay to put you through college. That doesn't make me feel like a baller, it makes me feel like an adult.

Living well and enjoying life doesn't mean you have to live like T-Pain. Buy a second home, send your kids to Exeter, donate money to alleviate your tax burden and improve your community stature. These are the things by which actually wealthy grown ups measure each other.

But I forgot, you all are never getting married, never having kids, and are all joining prosperous private practice clinics with insane RVU reimbursements. You go ahead and lease your Gallardo.

But you should ask yourself, "why isn't every 35 year old single professional making over $200K a year leasing a Gallardo?" Are you the only one who likes cars? Are you the only one who isn't "clueless on the costs"? Are you the only one alpha enough to actually do it?

Or could there be another reason?

 

[fancymylotus]

Insane cost of upkeep and maintenance, and basically a loss of money as soon as you drive it off the lot? Totes sounds like something I'd want to sink my monies into.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

I am a physician, actually both my wife and I are subspecialist physicians, and we do live in a solid home. Good daycare and a nanny share in a decent city will cost you substantially more than the payments on that Gallardo. In fact, they cost as much or more than what mommy and daddy are going to pay to put you through college. That doesn't make me feel like a baller, it makes me feel like an adult.

Living well and enjoying life doesn't mean you have to live like T-Pain. Buy a second home, send your kids to Exeter, donate money to alleviate your tax burden and improve your community stature. These are the things by which actually wealthy grown ups measure each other.

But I forgot, you all are never getting married, never having kids, and are all joining prosperous private practice clinics with insane RVU reimbursements. You go ahead and lease your Gallardo.

But you should ask yourself, "why isn't every 35 year old single professional making over $200K a year leasing a Gallardo?" Are you the only one who likes cars? Are you the only one who isn't "clueless on the costs"? Are you the only one alpha enough to actually do it?

Or could there be another reason?

Well first off you're clearly living to see how other "adults" measure you lol. Not everyone has the same mindset. And yes not everyone (especially from this generation) will marry. Many will live in nice neighborhoods where public schools aren't so bad eliminating the need for private school.
And I'll just add that many people purchasing exotic cars have a passion for them, not just the average joe level of interest. It isn't something you'd be able to relate to if you don't have it. It's like an athlete training 25 hours a week talking to a couch potato. Just does not compute.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

Insane cost of upkeep and maintenance, and basically a loss of money as soon as you drive it off the lot? Totes sounds like something I'd want to sink my monies into.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

If you read my previous post in this thread, I quickly dismissed the myth of high maintenance costs (it's not even a fraction of what you think ex. 200$mo insurance) and the fact that many are leased.

 

[fancymylotus]

If you read my previous post in this thread, I quickly dismissed the myth of high maintenance costs (it's not even a fraction of what you think ex. 200$mo insurance) and the fact that many are leased.

Uh, do you know how expensive parts and repairs can be on some of the more exotic cars? Even the not so exotic ones once the warranty runs out? Do you know how much better spent your money would be in smart real estate investments? Like sure, do whatever you want, but dont complain about drowning in debt then.

 

[Goro]

My 13 year old thinks that he'll be "making bank" earning minimum wage.

And therein lies the problem. The guy with 3 luxury cars on "2/3 of an engineering salary" likely has a lot more debt and a lot less savings than he ought. Don't kid yourself.

If you are "living frugally" and spending everything on cars, garages, maintenance, insurance, unexpected things can throw your life into turmoil and bankruptcy. The lifestyle you are describing is what a rapper might do with his first big payday and end up broke before 30. It's why 50 Cent and MC Hammer are broke now. You don't want to put much of your income into wasting assets. "YOLO" is the battle cry of suckers who made bad decisions. You aren't going to see successful professionals spouting this, just the Jersey Shore crowd.

I get it -- Money goes a lot further in your daydreams as a high schooler. When I was 17 I thought I'd be "rich" just earning what the typical resident earns now. You'll grow out of it. SitraAchra above is spot on. Financial savvy isn't fun, isn't sexy, but you'll have a better "life" instead of a better decade if you play it straight and treat each dollar like it's gotta last.

 

[Law2Doc]

... It isn't something you'd be able to relate to if you don't have it. It's like an athlete training 25 hours a week talking to a couch potato. Just does not compute.

You know what else apparently isn't something you can relate to if you don't have it? Money, and it's sound management. As frustrating as you find people who don't know about "Lambos" we are doubly frustrated by people who haven't yet saved two nickels yet somehow think they know they are going to better manage their income. In this sense it's also like precision athletes trying to talk sense to a couch potato - except that your couch is still in your parents basement.

 

[SitraAchra]

Well first off you're clearly living to see how other "adults" measure you lol. Not everyone has the same mindset. And yes not everyone (especially from this generation) will marry. Many will live in nice neighborhoods where public schools aren't so bad eliminating the need for private school.
And I'll just add that many people purchasing exotic cars have a passion for them, not just the average joe level of interest. It isn't something you'd be able to relate to if you don't have it. It's like an athlete training 25 hours a week talking to a couch potato. Just does not compute.

When you roll up to the hospital in your car that's worth as much as a nice house, and your partners who are 20 years older and millions of dollars richer than you roll up in an Audi A6, they will laugh inside knowing you're all hat, no cattle (forgive my expression, I'm from Texas).

You can fool the fans (random girls you meet at the club as you cling to any essence of your early 20s), but you can't fool the players on the field (your colleagues).

You will be seen as a total tool, a phony, and everyone will know you're one fender bender away from needing a 17% loan from your credit card. Trust the people commenting on this thread who once went through that phase, we are right. We know exactly how you feel and how you think you know better than us. We know. Way more than you do.

 

[Kurk]

When you roll up to the hospital in your car that's worth as much as a nice house, and your partners who are 20 years older and millions of dollars richer than you roll up in an Audi A6, they will laugh inside knowing you're all hat, no cattle (forgive my expression, I'm from Texas).

You can fool the fans (random girls you meet at the club as you cling to any essence of your early 20s), but you can't fool the players on the field (your colleagues).

You will be seen as a total tool, a phony, and everyone will know you're one fender bender away from needing a 17% loan from your credit card. Trust the people commenting on this thread who once went through that phase, we are right. We know exactly how you feel and how you think you know better than us. We know. Way more than you do.

It is possible to purchase a used Gallardo for under 100k. I've never seen a "nice" house for that much. I agree with your position on owning a car that would require "a 17% loan from your credit card"—I would only lease past 80k or so.
It would also be funny when a colleague rolls up in their soccer mom Audi A6 (S6 would be different) and I ask them basic questions on the mechanics of the car that they can't answer because they don't have a passion for cars and see them solely as transportation.

 

[SitraAchra]

It is possible to purchase a used Gallardo for under 100k. I've never seen a "nice" house for that much. I agree with your position on owning a car that would require "a 17% loan from your credit card"—I would only lease past 80k or so.
It would also be funny when a colleague rolls up in their soccer mom Audi A6 (S6 would be different) and I ask them basic questions on the mechanics of the car that they can't answer because they don't have a passion for cars and see them solely as transportation.

Anyone that purchases a used Gallardo for <$100k rather than a new Audi or some similar luxury car that will require much less maintenance is a total fool.

No one is saying you can't do these things in adulthood. It's absolutely possible. It's just incredibly stupid to do so and we are calling you out on it here because your YouTube superstars with nothing in retirement savings fail to impress us.

I like your fantasy where you walk up to someone driving a nice car and call them out on not understanding the mechanics of it - you must win a lot of arguments right before you go to sleep in your mind.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

Uh, do you know how expensive parts and repairs can be on some of the more exotic cars? Even the not so exotic ones once the warranty runs out? Do you know how much better spent your money would be in smart real estate investments? Like sure, do whatever you want, but dont complain about drowning in debt then.

Do you know how expensive the same stuff is for bmws or audis?

When you roll up to the hospital in your car that's worth as much as a nice house, and your partners who are 20 years older and millions of dollars richer than you roll up in an Audi A6, they will laugh inside knowing you're all hat, no cattle (forgive my expression, I'm from Texas).

You can fool the fans (random girls you meet at the club as you cling to any essence of your early 20s), but you can't fool the players on the field (your colleagues).

You will be seen as a total tool, a phony, and everyone will know you're one fender bender away from needing a 17% loan from your credit card. Trust the people commenting on this thread who once went through that phase, we are right. We know exactly how you feel and how you think you know better than us. We know. Way more than you do.

If someone wants to use their car to get women, what's wrong with that? If someone wants to take it to the track, is there an issue with that? Don't judge the lifestyle of others out of jealousy. Once again I can tell how clueless you are on exotic cars with your "roll up to the hospital" comment. You're speaking from ignorance like the others in this thread because you know absolutely nothing about the topic or its costs.

 

[SitraAchra]

Do you know how expensive the same stuff is for bmws or audis?

If someone wants to use their car to get women, what's wrong with that? If someone wants to take it to the track, is there an issue with that? Don't judge the lifestyle of others out of jealousy. Once again I can tell how clueless you are on exotic cars with your "roll up to the hospital" comment. You're speaking from ignorance like the others in this thread because you know absolutely nothing about the topic or its costs.

I drive an Audi, I am familiar with its costs. They aren't cheap to maintain. I took a pot hole on the way to work and bent two rims just like that. $2000 up in smoke. Thankfully because I'm not trying to live like a rap star this didn't cause any significant burden.

How does me saying "roll up to the hospital" insinuate I don't "understand" exotic cars? Is there any point to owning one other than to be seen in one? I suppose you could collect them and use them as investments - good luck doing that on a physician's salary. You keep talking like there is a mystique to owning a high-end car.

I know that the costs of cars much cheaper than an exotic car are already substantial because I've paid for repairs and maintenance on them myself. And I didn't come from money like you, Mr. No Loans. Maybe that's the disconnect here - you have a security net in place which causes you to see these activities as much less risky. Perhaps for you they are less risky because your family lets you act like a little troll with an elevated sense of worth who hasn't earned anything. Not sure if that's the case but you certainly sound like it.

 

[Kurk]

Anyone that purchases a used Gallardo for <$100k rather than a new Audi or some similar luxury car that will require much less maintenance is a total fool.

No one is saying you can't do these things in adulthood. It's absolutely possible. It's just incredibly stupid to do so and we are calling you out on it here because your YouTube superstars with nothing in retirement savings fail to impress us.

I like your fantasy where you walk up to someone driving a nice car and call them out on not understanding the mechanics of it - you must win a lot of arguments right before you go to sleep in your mind.

The difference is that you don't daily drive a lamborghini like you do with an A6 so you can't really compare maintenance costs. I'd personally daily drive a car that's cheap to maintain and leave the exotic for my day off.

 

[SitraAchra]

The difference is that you don't daily drive a lamborghini like you do with an A6 so you can't really compare maintenance costs. I'd personally daily drive a car that's cheap to maintain and leave the exotic for my day off.

So now you need a second car in addition to the expensive one. Sounds reasonable.

I don't think there's much else to be added here. Young guys don't understand how a physician salary can't reasonably afford a super expensive car. The argument that "I can live in a cheap home/apt, not go on fancy vacations, and stay single for awhile" may seem reasonable to achieve this. In reality it's not so easy to do, as the high school/college crowd claims. It's called "lifestyle creep" - the more you earn, the more you spend. It doesn't stop at a nice car, no matter how much you think.

Instead of buying a $250k car, look up how much $250k becomes after 25 years of 7% annual gains.

That's the difference, guys who have to work 70hrs/week to afford crazy cars end up doing that until they are 70, except it becomes vacation homes, alimony for an ex, boats, ect.

And the guy who invested $250k in his first few years out is laughing at you when he retires at 55. Boom! See you when you're 70 and working full time sucka!

 

[Law2Doc]

It is possible to purchase a used Gallardo for under 100k. I've never seen a "nice" house for that much....

Actually when you buy a house you only put 10-20% down and then pay the mortgage monthly-- you could live a year in a nice first home (in a reasonable cost of living location) for less than the price of that used Ferrari, and that's ignoring the maintenance costs of a used car a seller is willing to unload cheap. But that's a tangential point.

 

[Law2Doc]

...

If someone wants to use their car to get women, what's wrong with that? ...

Um if you already can't impress women by just being a doctor, a flashy car won't seal the deal. Just saying.

 

[typhoonegator]

Well first off you're clearly living to see how other "adults" measure you lol. Not everyone has the same mindset. And yes not everyone (especially from this generation) will marry. Many will live in nice neighborhoods where public schools aren't so bad eliminating the need for private school.
And I'll just add that many people purchasing exotic cars have a passion for them, not just the average joe level of interest. It isn't something you'd be able to relate to if you don't have it. It's like an athlete training 25 hours a week talking to a couch potato. Just does not compute.

I live in one of the best public school systems in the country. Many physicians here still send their kids to private schools. People would rather invest in their child's education than tacky expressions of wealth. Go figure.

Ultimately, the real joke is that you're arguing that a leased Lamborghini is an enthusiast's car. It is not. It is a heavy, understeering, overly appointed fashion statement that you can't even work on yourself without dedicated tools and a shop to back you up. You can't track it because no insurance company would cover you for that, especially on a lease, and particularly at a young age with the amount of liquid assets you will have at your new money disposal. Owners literally laminate their shop records for the next owner to document service and preserve resale value. So what are you going to do, enjoy the leather and rev the engine at stop lights? Hang on, we've got a real enthusiast on our hands.

I'll tell you why I was even attracted to this thread in the first place. I grew up 10 minutes from Road America. I'm an SCCA member. My Dad and I built up a beaten down Fox body Mustang to use as a track car at RA when I was in high school. More recently, I used to autocross on weekends in a tuned NA Miata that I picked up for 6 grand and wrenched back to life myself, until my kids were born. In college I talked my friend into letting me help him turn the 4G63 in his Eclipse GSX into a 450whp beast that could run 12s on street tires (at least a few times before it melted).

My dad worked in a factory. I put myself through school. I've been a legit jalopnik my whole life. I'm always looking for the proverbial brown, diesel, RWD, manual wagon. You don't need money to be a car nut. Go to a LeMons race some time, see how many participants are corporate lawyers and neurosurgeons. Now that my wife and I have enough money to live comfortably and reap the rewards of a decade and a half of sacrifice, the concept of buying an ostentatious fashion statement to drive around in is anathema. You're welcome to do it, of course -- when you earn the money you can spend it however you want. But if I won the lottery tomorrow, after I paid back my own student loans, and stuffed my kids college funds, and put almost everything else in a managed account with a mix of index funds, large caps, and maybe some higher risk international holdings to keep things interesting, then I'd get myself an E-type. And I'd rub it with a diaper. At least it would hold value.

Anyhoo, I've had a great time on this thread. It's sort of like that Cat Stevens song, "Father and Son". You can lead a horse to water and all that. This shall be my last post here. Thanks to the other attendings who've chimed in; it really does show how great a community this place can be.

 

[Kurk]

So now you need a second car in addition to the expensive one. Sounds reasonable.

I don't think there's much else to be added here. Young guys don't understand how a physician salary can't reasonably afford a super expensive car. The argument that "I can live in a cheap home/apt, not go on fancy vacations, and stay single for awhile" may seem reasonable to achieve this. In reality it's not so easy to do, as the high school/college crowd claims. It's called "lifestyle creep" - the more you earn, the more you spend. It doesn't stop at a nice car, no matter how much you think.

Instead of buying a $250k car, look up how much $250k becomes after 25 years of 7% annual gains.

That's the difference, guys who have to work 70hrs/week to afford crazy cars end up doing that until they are 70, except it becomes vacation homes, alimony for an ex, boats, ect.

And the guy who invested $250k in his first few years out is laughing at you when he retires at 55. Boom! See you when you're 70 and working full time sucka!

How about I open up a compound interest account right now, start putting a good portion of my income it right now, and not have the issue of trying to learn how to invest my money when I'm busy in the future?
I already said I would not buy a $250k car for the reasons you've stated—only lease.
Also, the used Lamborghini Gallardo is going to retain a lot more of its value than a brand new Audi/BMW/Lexus. If you wait it out long enough, it will gain value. So in reality, owning two cars does not necessarily mean it's going to cost more. I would own more than one car regardless because I have a passion for them. Insurance is really going to be the biggest problem.

Alimony for an ex can be avoided with a prenuptial agreement if it ever becomes necessary. Not very romantic but necessary.

I personally would not retire. I would not mind working 40hrs/week at 80 years old. There is a 100 year old practicing internist in Cincinnati so it's achievable.
So while I would be healthy and well working at 70, my colleagues who decided to retire at 55 will become senile quicker and eventually die in a nursing home.

 

[da8s0859q]

Horse to water indeed.

 

[Kurk]

Ultimately, the real joke is that you're arguing that a leased Lamborghini is an enthusiast's car. It is not. It is a heavy, understeering, overly appointed fashion statement that you can't even work on yourself without dedicated tools and a shop to back you up.
You don't need money to be a car nut.

To be completely honest, I agree with you. I'm only using Lamborghini as an example because if I said Nissan GTR or Subaru WRX half the people on this forum would think it's an average road car and be okay with it. I've never driven a Lamborghini so I can't comment on how it handles, but generally speaking they're not the most agile cars and many enthusiasts see them as tacky (though I most say they look amazing). I like working on my own cars and my biggest concern with medicine would be finding the time to work on and maintain my cars, whether it be an old Chevy blazer or a GTR.

 

[fancymylotus]

I didn't have loans.
I choose to put my expendable income into smart investments.
I live in a nice building, I have a nice car
I could have nicer material things but I'd rather not work forever just to have fancy "stuff"
I'd rather secure my future and the future of my generations. And be able to take care of my parents if/when they need it
And travel around doing charity work

I love my fancy bags and shoes and diamonds, but I don't go into debt for any of it nor do I spend irresponsibly.

Most of us aren't going to be at the point in our lives where a few garagefuls of lambos are NBD. We aren't the kardashians or something. We'll all do really well for ourselves but I guess you just have to prioritize.


*buys another pair of loubs and steps off her soapbox*


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[WedgeDawg]

I see very little that can be gained from continuing this discussion. The question has been answered by multiple people with different perspectives and differences of opinion with a wide range of experience and hypotheticals. It is now up to the reader to decide whose advice they want to listen to.

 

[deleted274002]

You're welcome to do it, of course -- when you earn the money you can spend it however you want. But if I won the lottery tomorrow, after I paid back my own student loans, and stuffed my kids college funds, and put almost everything else in a managed account with a mix of index funds, large caps, and maybe some higher risk international holdings to keep things interesting, then I'd get myself an E-type. And I'd rub it with a diaper. At least it would hold value.

Totally thought of this while reading what you wrote.

 

[Toutie]

I suggest that first @Kurk graduate high school. Then graduate college. Then maybe go to med school, or what ever field he decides to pursue. And THEN...if he has all these $$$ he expects to have...he can spend it on all the fancy cars his little heart desires. Until he gets to that point, this is all just a pipe dream on his part and quite honestly not worth the time spent discussing it with him.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

I drive an Audi, I am familiar with its costs. They aren't cheap to maintain. I took a pot hole on the way to work and bent two rims just like that. $2000 up in smoke. Thankfully because I'm not trying to live like a rap star this didn't cause any significant burden.

How does me saying "roll up to the hospital" insinuate I don't "understand" exotic cars? Is there any point to owning one other than to be seen in one? I suppose you could collect them and use them as investments - good luck doing that on a physician's salary. You keep talking like there is a mystique to owning a high-end car.

I know that the costs of cars much cheaper than an exotic car are already substantial because I've paid for repairs and maintenance on them myself. And I didn't come from money like you, Mr. No Loans. Maybe that's the disconnect here - you have a security net in place which causes you to see these activities as much less risky. Perhaps for you they are less risky because your family lets you act like a little troll with an elevated sense of worth who hasn't earned anything. Not sure if that's the case but you certainly sound like it.

No one drives an exotic to work unless you're a multimillionaire who owns one for each day of the week.

Um if you already can't impress women by just being a doctor, a flashy car won't seal the deal. Just saying.

Dr = 1 point boost on the 10 point scale. Flashy cars can attract the gold diggers and help you compete with the millionaires.

So now you need a second car in addition to the expensive one. Sounds reasonable.

I don't think there's much else to be added here. Young guys don't understand how a physician salary can't reasonably afford a super expensive car. The argument that "I can live in a cheap home/apt, not go on fancy vacations, and stay single for awhile" may seem reasonable to achieve this. In reality it's not so easy to do, as the high school/college crowd claims. It's called "lifestyle creep" - the more you earn, the more you spend. It doesn't stop at a nice car, no matter how much you think.

Instead of buying a $250k car, look up how much $250k becomes after 25 years of 7% annual gains.

That's the difference, guys who have to work 70hrs/week to afford crazy cars end up doing that until they are 70, except it becomes vacation homes, alimony for an ex, boats, ect.

And the guy who invested $250k in his first few years out is laughing at you when he retires at 55. Boom! See you when you're 70 and working full time sucka!

The fact that you don't know that lambos/ferraris and such are not daily drivers means you aren't qualified to comment on the topic.

I live in one of the best public school systems in the country. Many physicians here still send their kids to private schools. People would rather invest in their child's education than tacky expressions of wealth. Go figure.

Ultimately, the real joke is that you're arguing that a leased Lamborghini is an enthusiast's car. It is not. It is a heavy, understeering, overly appointed fashion statement that you can't even work on yourself without dedicated tools and a shop to back you up. You can't track it because no insurance company would cover you for that, especially on a lease, and particularly at a young age with the amount of liquid assets you will have at your new money disposal. Owners literally laminate their shop records for the next owner to document service and preserve resale value. So what are you going to do, enjoy the leather and rev the engine at stop lights? Hang on, we've got a real enthusiast on our hands.

I'll tell you why I was even attracted to this thread in the first place. I grew up 10 minutes from Road America. I'm an SCCA member. My Dad and I built up a beaten down Fox body Mustang to use as a track car at RA when I was in high school. More recently, I used to autocross on weekends in a tuned NA Miata that I picked up for 6 grand and wrenched back to life myself, until my kids were born. In college I talked my friend into letting me help him turn the 4G63 in his Eclipse GSX into a 450whp beast that could run 12s on street tires (at least a few times before it melted).

My dad worked in a factory. I put myself through school. I've been a legit jalopnik my whole life. I'm always looking for the proverbial brown, diesel, RWD, manual wagon. You don't need money to be a car nut. Go to a LeMons race some time, see how many participants are corporate lawyers and neurosurgeons. Now that my wife and I have enough money to live comfortably and reap the rewards of a decade and a half of sacrifice, the concept of buying an ostentatious fashion statement to drive around in is anathema. You're welcome to do it, of course -- when you earn the money you can spend it however you want. But if I won the lottery tomorrow, after I paid back my own student loans, and stuffed my kids college funds, and put almost everything else in a managed account with a mix of index funds, large caps, and maybe some higher risk international holdings to keep things interesting, then I'd get myself an E-type. And I'd rub it with a diaper. At least it would hold value.

Anyhoo, I've had a great time on this thread. It's sort of like that Cat Stevens song, "Father and Son". You can lead a horse to water and all that. This shall be my last post here. Thanks to the other attendings who've chimed in; it really does show how great a community this place can be.

Investing in more expensive education for your kids when technology is rapidly replacing most jobs. Sounds smart brah.

 

[Skydive Fox]

Watching y'all like:

For real, though. Y'all might as well save your own time and give up on tryna convince OP and his sympathizers to reconsider; they clearly aren't gonna change their minds at this point.

Let this dumpster-fire of a thread burn out already.

 

[Law2Doc]

...
Alimony for an ex can be avoided with a prenuptial agreement if it ever becomes necessary. Not very romantic but necessary...

Just a side point but a judge is likely going to throw out the prenup if he hears you are driving around in a Lambo.

 

[Goro]

This has been interesting thread , but do guys know that you're arguing with high schoolers?

As a parent, I can tell you that it's the same as arguing with pre-schoolers.

Just a side point but a judge is likely going to throw out the prenup if he hears you are driving around in a Lambo.

 

[Kurk]

Just a side point but a judge is likely going to throw out the prenup if he hears you are driving around in a Lambo.

And why is that? I thought prenups were primarily for high net-worth couples anyway?

 

[Law2Doc]

And why is that? I thought prenups were primarily for high net-worth couples anyway?

Yes but such an agreement has to be reasonable when enacted. Generally these are bargained for terms, with both sides represented by lawyers, and you'll still give up some decent amount to not risk half your net worth. Possibly more than an alimony stream. The whole " I keep it all and you get nothing" agreements only occur on TV.

 

[Law2Doc]

This has been interesting thread , but do guys know that you're arguing with high schoolers?...

Poorly thought out high school students like this may be the bankruptcies and tax burdens of tomorrow. Look at it as trying to fix the future without a time machine.

 

[Kurk]

Poorly thought out high school students like this may be the bankruptcies and tax burdens of tomorrow. Look at it as trying to fix the future without a time machine.

Man if I'm going to be the tax burden of tomorrow I can't imagine what my classmates will be! They constantly spend hundreds of dollars on multiple pairs of fancy new shoes, smartphone plans, and eat out at Chipotle for lunch almost every day. Meanwhile I go to Goodwill for clothes and a few other items once I find that duct-taping my shoes can only go so far. In my free-time, I'll go on Zillow and find the cheapest, most reasonable apartment within the area for both college and for my own fantasies of living frugally. I don't need to be this cheap, I come from a middle class family where money isn't an issue thankfully, yet I choose to do this because I'm not content living the life of an average suburban person. The money saved from "the small things in life" will eventually go into compound interest accounts and into funding my car hobby—the only thing I am passionate about next to working out and maintaining good health.

And even though I frown upon my classmates' spending styles, I know it is not my right to dictate how they live because there are those who frown upon how I want to live. Everyone has the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness as corny as it might sound.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

This has been interesting thread , but do guys know that you're arguing with high schoolers?

As a parent, I can tell you that it's the same as arguing with pre-schoolers.

The problem is that you have a bunch of married people with kids trying to put their financial perspective onto a theoretical case of a single doctor. There's a vast difference between the two and how you go about your finances (ex. leasing an exotic car).

 

[Goro]

I rest my case.

The problem is that you have a bunch of married people with kids trying to put their financial perspective onto a theoretical case of a single doctor. There's a vast difference between the two and how you go about your finances (ex. leasing an exotic car).

 

[da8s0859q]

I unsubscribed from this "thread" a few days ago and just couldn't help but see where we were today.

Oops. Can we just say the high schoolers will get everything they want and lock this mother****er? There is quite literally no utility left in this except for maybe some good cat memes to derail it.

 

[JakeSill]

What field can I get into that would afford me a luxurious lifestyle?