I get ya. I just think 6 weeks is too short. For me, the commitment should be 4-6 months minimum (i.e. more than a summer abroad).
Why is volunteering abroad looked at so unfavorably?
- Thread starter Dr. Anonymouss
- Start date
I get ya. I just think 6 weeks is too short. For me, the commitment should be 4-6 months minimum (i.e. more than a summer abroad).
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2019
- Messages
- 145
- Reaction score
- 227
I have my TEFL cert, along with 3 years of private and small group tutoring. That all is really besides the point though, as my initial concern was not to compare what I am doing to something like Peace Corps, but rather to see if it would be viewed negatively or positively by adcoms. I was surprised to find that short medical volunteer trips were viewed so negatively, and this raised some concern. You also say "less egregious" meaning still egregious. Can you expand on that please?
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2019
- Messages
- 145
- Reaction score
- 227
I would absolutely love to spend half a year there, but I have many priorities back home that just straight up make this impossible. I had to work extremely hard to save up the money to be able to leave for even just 6 weeks. It seems like your mindset is that if youre unable to spend half a year away then you should not go at all. Am I understanding you correctly?
Sure. So, education is almost always going to be less egregious than a mission because you’re working on skill transfer to the local population.
I said still egregious though because I don’t think it’s enough of a time commitment. I think these trips need to be longer in order for you to develop a better understanding of where you are and for you to develop better relationships with the people you’re working with. Greater depth here will help you figure out the best ways to go about the skill transfer and increases the likelihood that you will actually make even the slightest bit of impact. Does that make sense?
On the surface it seems like teaching would be a home run, but if you’re there long enough you’ll learn that you can’t teach like you would here at home. There are a lot of considerations and adjustments to make in order to be more effective, and you simply can’t know what those are in a short amount of time.
No, I’m saying you shouldn’t volunteer if you can’t commit long term. If you wanna go there, then go and see what it’s all about. But going under the pretense of volunteering (which carries with it the notion that you’re making things better) is wrong because you’re not going to be there long enough to be effective let alone know if you actually truly taught anything.
I grill students about stuff like this all of the time during interviews. Most don’t have a good answer when I ask “so, why not just travel there and see the sites and spend time learning?” I think your connection is super cool and that you should go if you want in order to learn since this is part of your family story, but I wouldn’t do the volunteer part because I think your time would be better spent learning rather than fumbling in a classroom.
This notion that something is better than nothing is a dangerous game to play and is absolutely wrong.
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2019
- Messages
- 145
- Reaction score
- 227
Well I certainly appreciate you expanding on your opinion for me. I have yet to go on this adventure, so I am sure I will have more credibility to speak about it when I return, but I must say I do disagree with the notion that in 6 weeks there I will not be able to make a positive impact. The idea that I will be "fumbling in the classroom" makes it seem as though I will just be thrown in front of 50 Maasai children with no idea whatsoever what I'm doing, which I feel is a misrepresentation of my role. I wont be in charge of a full classroom, and the actual formal teaching of the curriculum will still be the role of the teachers there. I will mostly be a support role for the teacher, who has been tasked with teaching/looking after a very large group of energized children.
All I know is that if I were in their shoes, I would welcome anyone willing to help with open arms 😆. Again, I really do appreciate your responses!
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2013
- Messages
- 12,124
- Reaction score
- 17,628
Just because something has a significant amount of personal benefit does not mean that it is not altruistic or that it is unethical. Everything we do in life is selfish at some level, and it may be more imperative for a person to broaden their own perspectives through first-hand experience while simultaneously trying to aid others (even if it is just short-term) than simply donating that money when they have no idea how that money will be used to help, if it is really even used to help at all.
Sorry, but I think your first paragraph is pretty rigid in your belief of how individuals should choose to gain perspective and grow as people. I think it's ridiculous to think that going with an intent on volunteering is somehow a less valid form of development than going and "seeing what it's all about." If you're arguing that it's unethical on the basis that more effective means of contributing to aid could be provided with that funding, then I get your point. However, just donating money as you previously stated does nothing to contribute to an individual's personal development.
To the second paragraph, I'm finding the rigidity of the viewpoint that one could "go see what it's all about" by "traveling there and see the sites and spending time learning" as opposed to teaching or volunteering to be short-sighted. There are many things one would see through volunteering and trying to go in and work with those trying to solve problems that they would not experience from taking a vacation there and just trying to be culturally sensitive and seeing various sites. While the volunteering may not be as effective as long-term insertion into a program in that community, it shouldn't simply be dismissed either.
You’re welcome! A support role is a better than a primary teaching role, for sure.
Also, I said “fumbling in the classroom” not because I didn’t think you could teach but because of the learning curve for effective teaching in this setting. It wasn’t a pass at you, so I’m sorry if it came off that way!
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2019
- Messages
- 145
- Reaction score
- 227
If I was offended that easily then I don't think I would last long in this field
, but nonetheless thank you for the apology. Hopefully I will get an interview with you so that you can grill me about my 6 week experience and we can hash this out in person some day, haha.We are all entitled to our opinions, but in my experience you can grow just as much as a person by traveling while simultaneously contributing to a local economy. The only reason to volunteer is so that you feel better about yourself and have something to write down on your resume.
You are not contributing to international development with short term trips. If anything, you’re hindering it because you are working to create reliance on these short term programs. The local governments then see no reason to focus on whatever your trip is geared toward since it is being done for them. So, yes, I am arguing that donating money to a longterm organization would be more effective. Sure, you have make sure it is a reliable organization first, but they can do more than you with your money.
That is true that you don’t see all off the challenges people face through traveling, but you can still learn a lot without contributing to the short-term mission business. That’s my point. If you have a real interest, get a longterm position there and try to learn more and actually fix the problems. Otherwise, this is all about the volunteer and what the volunteer learns and not about the local people who should be the primary focus.
D
deleted480308
Nope. You’re wrong. If someone needs tutoring, some is better than none
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2005
- Messages
- 28,462
- Reaction score
- 53,287
Will the recipients have acquired any skill or retained anything of value? I doubt it. Just as a bottle of expired Tylenol and a blood pressure check is not going to make a major impact on the life of a highlander in Guatemala who has a brief encounter with a pre-med from the US.
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2013
- Messages
- 12,124
- Reaction score
- 17,628
So let's look at an example then. Let's say there is a village that is 4+ hours from any form institutions that would be capable of providing relief or aid to the village. Let's say this village has very poor access to basic needs such as clean water. So a team decides to take a mission trip to help build a well/watershed which takes 5 days total. So the team goes out, builds the well, teaches the villagers how to use it, and educates them how to fix it should there be a problem. This is a short-term project which has created a resource which will have meaningful, long-term implications for that village. You could attempt to hire a company to do this, but would they be reliable? Would they teach the village how to fix the well if it breaks? Are they going to really care about the project or just the money they're being paid? This addresses the first bolded, that reliability and the end product is highly variable. Just an example, but there are plenty of ways that short-term trips can lead to long-term changes without making those communities reliant on short-term programs which will not last.
To the second bolded point, I disagree that it is ALL about the volunteer and what they learn. Yes, it is more about the volunteer than if they just donated the money, but that does not mean that it's not also about the local people and filling some sort of need. The other thing I'd like to point out about this is that legitimate programs are the type of experience that all Adcoms talk about wanting in applicants from other experiences. Adcoms always want to know that the applicant is diverse in their application and that they are able to gain new perspectives and grow from a plethora of different events. It's somewhat hypocritical to point out that these trips are "all about the volunteer" when every Adcom and application to med school asks applicants to explain what THEY got out of X experience, regardless of location, duration, or type and focus far less on the actual service provided.
I understand why many of these trips are often frowned upon. It's disingenuous to portray a 2 week trip with 4-5 days of volunteering and the rest as socializing/vacation as a very altruistic project with the goal of helping locals. There are trips and groups that do provide legitimate, long-term change to communities in a short period of time though. I just think it's heavy-handed to put all of those trips under the same umbrella and disregard them or cast them negatively when some of them are legitimate and provide an individual with significant insight about themselves or perspectives on the world while simultaneously enacting long-term change in poverty-stricken communities.
Also, you and others have said that when you ask applicants about these experiences that you get the same typical answers. That's an important bit of information on those individuals who you interview and who give those responses and not just the trips. There are far better answers to those questions and the "typical" responses you received show a shallow thought process with poor introspective reflection in that applicant. Imo, those cases would be seen as a negative because of the applicant, not the actual trip.
D
deleted480308
You can argue magnitude if you want but I still maintain that some tutoring is better than none.
Expired tylenol is a strawman, no one here is defending bad medicine
I would argue that many of the people who go build the wells you are talking about are not qualified to do so. This happens a lot. People go over and build latrines or whatever when the only thing they’ve ever built at home is a box of legos. They may have one person who knows what they’re doing, but the team as a whole is usually comprised of people who have no business doing that type of work.
Remote villages are exactly why we need people to commit longterm to helping develop infrastructure in these countries. If the well breaks, who is going to fix it when it’s so far? Did you really surmount the language barrier? Did they actually understand you when you told them how it works? Who in the village is responsible for the up keep? Who invited you the village to begin with? Did the locals ask you to come do this or did you ask to be let in to help them? Where did you stay while there? Did your group cause more work and stress on the people simply by being there? Did your group live at or near the same level as the locals or did you stay in nice hotels with AC and running water and sit around complain to each other about how the internet was so slow? There is so much lack of thought in trips that do work like this. That fact is: there are already longterm organizations in place that can do this work and they can do it better.
Short term volunteer work in a remote area does not automatically equal benefit, it doesn’t matter what you do.
It is true that med school ask about YOU, but that doesn’t justify you going abroad to do stuff like this simply because it benefits you. The unequal benefit between the volunteers on these trips and the locals supposedly benefiting from them is a huge part of this problem. And yes, you are correct. Most students do no think very deeply about this, which is why I like that we have these conversations on SDN so that students may read them and consider all sides of the argument. Everyone always thinks their trip is the exception.
When talking about med school apps, adcoms prefer to see a few consistent volunteer activities than a hodge podge of random stuff. It’s the same with these trips: a longer commitment is better. No one will take you seriously with a bunch of random volunteer stuff on your app, and no one in global health or international development will take you seriously with short little trips to X and Y developing nations.
To be fair, I’m not sure true altruism exists, even among those who do commit longterm to work abroad. It is nearly impossible not to personally benefit from going abroad in any capacity be that traveling or working or whatever, but I do think that if you work or volunteer, the focus should always be on the people and in order for that to be the case, you have to commit to actually being there and putting in the work to make a difference.
If you talk to people who do work abroad, the ones who tell you they change the world and help people are the ones who are there for 5 minutes. The ones who feel like they aren’t helping at all despite all of their efforts are the ones who have been there for years. What does that tell you?
Last edited:
- Joined
- May 26, 2018
- Messages
- 3,043
- Reaction score
- 2,230
I agree with lot of @Goro's arguments. We strongly felt spending thousands of dollars and travelling with armed guards to volunteer mainly for medical school applications is not warranted (and probably donating the cost may yield better results) and didn't give consent to our 18 year old. In the other hand, he did a 6 week immersion and public health survey program in a developing country and believes he gained good cultural and global healthcare experience.
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2013
- Messages
- 12,124
- Reaction score
- 17,628
I agree with most of this, but not all work requires extensive experience or specialized skills. On the trip I was referring to before (I've been on 3, 2 short-term and one longer term) the public health component involved surveys with locals. Those of us who were fluent or nearly fluent went out and administered basic surveys in the various locations we visited and reported back to a supervisor who worked with the public health department. Administering a simple survey (what is your family's biggest need? Do you have a toilet? Where do you get your water? etc) does not require specialists.
All valid points which should be addressed. My only comment would be that even though there are long-term organizations which do a lot of great work, there are also many places they just don't go due to lack of manpower and resources. You can make the argument that one would be better just donating/supporting one of these groups, but if there aren't people willing to go live in these locations for 3+ months at a time and locals aren't able to provide adequate support to the project, then those donations and support don't really matter.
Of course not, and I don't think anyone would make that argument. My point is that it can lead to long-term benefits, which is contrary to several people's statements that short-term trips are always bad or that "nothing positive" can be gleaned from them.
Other than location and cost to get to the location, how is this any different from a similar experience an applicant has in their own community? Why is a similar experience in one's own community viewed as more acceptable than one done abroad?
Altruism certainly exists, as personal benefit and altruism are not mutually exclusive so long as the primary concern of the individual is aiding others. Reflection of what one gained personally after completing the work or periodically can lead to significant personal benefit and growth while also putting the needs of others first. That's largely a semantic argument and I do understand your point that everyone is in some way selfish. I just don't it's wrong to gain/grow personally while simultaneously prioritizing the needs of others. I mean, this is basically what all of medicine is.
Everyone wants to act like their trips are the exception. “Oh, no, not my trip! My trip was one of the good ones, trust me!” It never fails. At the end of the day, the development community is against these trips and now the medical community is turning as well.
There’s a huge difference between volunteering to help your own community and going abroad to volunteer in a setting you know absolutely nothing about. Why do you think social determinants of health has become such a big thing in medicine? You have to understand the context in which people are living to be able to care for them effectively whether that’s in healthcare or any other type of setting. In your own country you understand far more about what is going on around you than you do abroad. If you don’t see the difference between these two things, then brother, I just don’t even know what to say to you
Assuming that no one will go to these places and nothing will get done without short term volunteers is incorrect and a wildly offensive thing to say about these groups of people. Why assume that westerners are needed to fix their problems in the first place? Because they can’t do it themselves????? This is epitome of the white savior complex.
The only reason so many people go on these trips is because they became wildly popular and accepted over the last two decades or so, airline travel became easier/less expensive, and it developed into a huge money making business. Hosting foreigners is the only way some of these organizations even agree to working in some communities! The standard is changing now though, hence us even having this debate. We are in the transition period where we have recognized that this practice is not good and it needs to change. And as such, there are people who are firmly for or against each side. The safest thing to do is to stay home to volunteer and to travel abroad if you want international experience because combining the two is messy and can come back and hurt you if you mention it in job/school interviews.
Last edited:
D
deleted480308
You can begrudge the savior complex if you want but some people actually do need outside help because economically they literally aren’t getting it done themselves and won’t without outside help. All the freshman sociology lectures in the world don’t eliminate that truthEveryone wants to act like their trips are the exception. “Oh, no, not my trip! My trip was one of the good ones, trust me!” It never fails. At the end of the day, the development community is against these trips and now the medical community is turning as well.
There’s a huge difference between volunteering to help your own community and going abroad to volunteer in a setting you know absolutely nothing about. Why do you think social determinants of health has become such a big thing in medicine? You have to understand the context in which people are living to be able to care for them effectively whether that’s in healthcare or any other type of setting. In your own country you understand far more about what is going on around you than you do abroad. If you don’t see the difference between these two things, then brother, I just don’t even know what to say to you
Assuming that no one will go to these places and nothing will get done without short term volunteers is incorrect and a wildly offensive thing to say about these groups of people. Why assume that westerners are needed to fix their problems in the first place? Because they can’t do it themselves????? This is epitome of the white savior complex.
The only reason so many people go on these trips is because they became wildly popular and accepted over the last two decades or so, airline travel became easier/less expensive, and it developed into a huge money making business. Hosting foreigners is the only way some of these organizations even agree to working in some communities! The standard is changing now though, hence us even having this debate. We are in the transition period where we have recognized that this practice is not good and it needs to change. And as such, there are people who are firmly for or against each side. The safest thing to do is to stay home to volunteer and to travel abroad if you want international experience because combining the two is messy and can come back and hurt you if you mention it in job/school interviews.
But these “some people” are not the ones being “helped” by these trips. If that were the case, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
D
deleted480308
But they often are, you can keep denying that though
- Joined
- Sep 29, 2011
- Messages
- 927
- Reaction score
- 444
So if your goal is to really "help" that $2,000 plane ticket, the $1,000 organizational fee, the $500 safari, the $100 of souvineers, the $300 new camera, would be better off pooled and sent directly to a family in the community you are going to "help" in without any skills or cultural understanding. You could literally change a person's life with that. You could change a community for that! Your time isn't helpful at all though. The only reason you are helpful is to give whatever money you use on your trip to the community through buying stuff. You're just a dollar sign to boost the economy through tourism. If you go and want it to be a cultural experience where you are there to learn and gain things form the community, that's often a better perspective to have. Let me be clear, you will NOT be helping anyone except yourself on short term trips. Peace corps and other things are a little better usually. Own that if you do it.
Even physicians going to places isn't always helpful. A surgeon going into a community and offering free services may be taking cases away from local surgeons who then isn't getting paid, or may be taking cases away form trainees in that region. They might also be giving the local government an excuse not to invest in building healthcare capacity because they have these white people flying in every once in a while to "help" for a few weeks. The best way to help is to invest in the economy and put pressure on governments to invest long term in building a sustainable healthcare system (or education system, etc). There is a huge shift in surgery (my field) happening right now that is moving away from mission type work and focusing on building things like residency programs and surgical infrastructure in LMIC with the goal being to eliminate the need for missions all together.
My tip: If you do this as a premed, with a few exceptions of peace corps and other exceptional commitments abroad, don't put it on your application. If you're willing to get this experience without using it to sell yourself, then it is coming from a more honest place of wanting to "help." If you're super altruistic, you should have a bunch of other experiences domestically that you can also use that are long term commitments to the community. If you are selling yourself as a savior of little poor black kids, then you are exploiting their suffering for your own gain. You would be shocked at how some people talk about these experiences from pre-meds all the way to senior attendings who use "helping" in LMICs as a way to exploit suffering of others for their own personal gain and to get an awesome vacation out of it.
Edit: here's a decent article about fly in missions: npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2019/03/27/656172038/is-it-time-to-rethink-the-fly-in-medical-mission
Last edited:
D
deleted480308
First, you aren’t understanding basic economics.
Second, you are building a ridiculous strawman with your budget example
Third you are completely discounting the changed life of those who go on these trips and the changed lives of those who receive care they might not otherwise receive
You also make a completely false assumption that not going on these trips would produce dollar for dollar donations.
The only thing we agree on is the part about putting it on a resume since too many people on adcoms share your incorrect perception
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2011
- Messages
- 28,811
- Reaction score
- 55,079
On this we can agree.
Whether it is "too many" or not, it is a fact that these trips are not generally well received.
This is what we want applicants to know.
Last edited:
No, they aren’t getting real help. They are getting inadequate, culturally insensitive, and sometimes inappropriate assistance that they may not even want from a bunch of white saviors who act like can they change these people’s entire life with 5 minutes of unskilled/untrained work because they are just so much more qualified than the locals because of where they were born.
Yes. And clearly the adcoms and people in international development who do this for a living have an incorrect interpretation, but you and those who pay to go on these trips, well you know the truth. Yes, that makes sense.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Sep 29, 2011
- Messages
- 927
- Reaction score
- 444
Dont have time to get into these, but my post was just a generalization.
1) The economic impact of tourism (which these premeds are) is important to a lot of small communities in LMICs.
2) The example is to highlight that the money spent traveling is substantial in relation to the actual "help" volunteering for 1-2 weeks actually provides. If your goal is to actually help, send that money and hang out at home for a week and watch netflix. (see Peter Singer and effective altruism, I don't necessarily agree with all of his points, but the greater good aspect is more right than the benefit of voluntourists.)
3) This is too touchy feely. "Lives changed" by updating your facebook profile isn't actually helpful.
4) I'm saying instead of going, it would be more helpful to donate (people wont do that though because then they don't get the experience.
5) We don't seem to agree at all.
6) No White Saviors
jfijiefjieji
Full Member
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2019
- Messages
- 69
- Reaction score
- 145
I know someone who volunteered in a third world country for several summers and even wrote about it as a most meaningful experience. She received multiple acceptances to top 20 schools and the experiences were met very positively in interviews. Now, her parents are from that country and she visits there nearly every year but I think the idea of volunteering abroad is the same. I think if you show some type of commitment that it can still be viewed positively on your application. And I definitely believe that hospitals that are severely understaffed and can't afford to hire full-time employees welcome the help (as long as there is some understanding of the language and culture).
This is 100% different if her parents are from there. She understands the culture and probably the language better than the average joe. If she were paying to be on a mission every summer, then I would still argue that it is bad because of the way these trips are structured. But having local connections that enable her to go and serve the place she and her family came from is NOT what we are talking about in this thread.
And just because a hospital is understaffed doesn’t mean people who don’t know what is going on should go volunteer there. That would be like waltzing into an understaffed hospital here in the US and just picking up the slack because they’re understaffed. We don’t let randos do that here and we shouldn’t encourage it abroad either.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Sep 29, 2011
- Messages
- 927
- Reaction score
- 444
Even people who do short trips can talk about it favorably, ie "wow I realized that I wasn't helpful and really learned a lot about ethics of volunteering and about how sustainability is really important." The majority of premeds and med students I've met really dont make the connection and use it as a talking point as opposed to an opportunity to continue "helping" the community they went to. There are shades of grey but take home message is the idea of helping can actually be harmful and it's imparative for people doing these trips to always be mindful of that.
D
deleted480308
Now they don’t want the help?
You propose those patients are dragged in against their will?
You are getting pretty desperate with the strawmanning
No, your assumption that you are wanted is part of the problem. Why would they want a bunch of people who don’t speak their language, who don’t respect their culture, and who think they’re better? Assuming they want you there because YOU are there to “help” is a common mistake. They may act all happy and smile at you, but if you really understood what was going on, you might learn that no actually, they didn’t appreciate the way you disrespected that chief or how you walked down the street on a tank top. This is classic “ignorance is bliss”. This is why I argue that people need to learn the culture and language before they go to these places. You don’t know if you’re actually wanted, and assuming you are is ignorant and just contributing to the problem.
D
deleted480308
If a short term organization announces “the Americans are coming to do a clinic next Thursday “ it is absolutely fair to assume that anyone who comes Thursday and waits in line to see the Americans has absolutely voluntarily decided that seeing Americans that day was the best option they had
You are really over selling the sociology crap
But WHY are the Americans coming? Who asked them to come to begin with? You are looking at it from a very superficial point of view without considering the deeper, systemic factors at work.
D
deleted480308
They go because patients keep showing up for their help because the local system is either inadequate or the patients couldn’t afford local options.
So to answer your question, “who is asking them to come?”. The patients who keep showing up to see them
I agree with part of your third point. Yes, you learn a lot from experiencing another culture. But you don’t have to volunteer abroad to do this. You can go travel and contribute to the economy in that way and contribute to jobs without exploiting the less fortunate for your own lopsided benefit.
And to your 4th point: yes, TOURISM is a big part of their economy. But not all tourism is voluntourism. In fact, many voluntourism organizations are not based in the host country and a large portion of profits do not end up in there.
5. Yes, medical schools are starting to teach that there are responsible ways to work abroad and there are irresponsible ways. Voluntourism is an irresponsible way which is why it is falling out of favor.
6. There is a big difference between joining the Peace Corps or engaging in work like Paul Farmer and going on short term missions. Even if it is to learn, short term missions are not what people like Paul Farmer and Albert Schweitzer and dozens of others have done. They all demonstrate LONG TERM commitment.
This is so overly simplified it is comical
Often times these organizations go into vulnerable areas without ever being invited. They then tell the locals that the only way they are going to continue receiving help from the organization is if they agree to host a bunch of Americans a few times a year. So, they agree, not because they actually want to but because they don’t have much of a choice. This is how many organizations that are affiliated with different religious groups function. And why is it that way? Well, it goes back to what I was saying before: people don’t want to just donate money, they want to personally benefit, so to keep the funds coming, you gotta keep the white saviors interested. If you actually asked the people, they’d rather have their own workforce than yours and that’s what we should be developing rather than our own egos and CVs.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2018
- Messages
- 505
- Reaction score
- 385
A lot of people seem too cautious to donate because they don’t actually know where their money is going. Disingenuous “non-profit” organizations are rampant in third-world countries.This is so overly simplified it is comical
Often times these organizations go into vulnerable areas without ever being invited. They then tell the locals that the only way they are going to continue receiving help from the organization is if they agree to host a bunch of Americans a few times a year. So, they agree, not because they actually want to but because they don’t have much of a choice. This is how many organizations that are affiliated with different religious groups function. And why is it that way? Well, it goes back to what I was saying before: people don’t want to just donate money, they want to personally benefit, so to keep the funds coming, you gotta keep the white saviors interested. If you actually asked the people, they’d rather have their own workforce than yours and that’s what we should be developing rather than our own egos and CVs.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2018
- Messages
- 1,193
- Reaction score
- 1,713
But no one intentionally goes to these underserved countries with the thought that they are exploiting other individuals. We go because we want to make a difference and help; and Americans aren't the only ones deserving of this. The famous saying, "Give a man a fish and it will feed him for a day, teach him to fish and you will feed him for a lifetime." Not all of these trips are that beneficial, but we certainly all have that mindset when we decide we want to give international aid. I just strongly disagree that throwing money at the problem will somehow fix the issue.
On a side note, if I never went on my volunteering trip to Honduras I would have never gained the desire to study abroad in Costa Rica for a year. This further expanded my cultural values and helped me grow as a person. I like to believe I truly helped during my stay in Honduras, but my cultural competence undoubtedly grew due this experience and I know for a fact that I would not have had the same cultural experience if I went solely as a tourist.
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2010
- Messages
- 74,365
- Reaction score
- 119,330
this is 100% different from what we are talking about, which is the one week voluntourism trip
As I’ve said before, good intentions ≠ good outcomes.
Having good intentions and wanting to help others isn’t a bad thing at all. But there is a responsible way to go about it.
And to my point, your entire statement about going to Honduras on a trip is about how it impacted and helped YOU. You could have just traveled and reached the same conclusion. You don’t have to be coveted by a voluntourist experience as I’ve already said multiple times.
You can’t possibly know for a fact that traveling wouldn’t have impacted you. The whole experience of traveling (planning, living on a budget, dealing with inconveninces, figuring how to get places, etc) is part of what makes the experience even more valuable. You learn how to be resilient if you aren’t already, and you learn to be flexible and adapt to change. You learn to be aware of yourself and of your surroundings. That’s of way more personal benefit than anything you “see” on a mission trip. People just don’t want to be uncomfortable, but that’s how you learn and get the most out of the experience. But if your idea of traveling is a 5 star hotel and private transport with everything planned for you by someone else, then yeah, you may not benefit. You have to seek out the experience.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2018
- Messages
- 276
- Reaction score
- 463
Premed: How many hours do I need to do to be competitive?
Adcom: it's not about the hours but more what you get from the experience
also
Premed: blah blah blah experience was great for me and I learned XYZ
Adcom: great experience for you? how was the experience for the people you helped?
I hate this process so much.
Adcom: it's not about the hours but more what you get from the experience
also
Premed: blah blah blah experience was great for me and I learned XYZ
Adcom: great experience for you? how was the experience for the people you helped?
I hate this process so much.
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2010
- Messages
- 74,365
- Reaction score
- 119,330
Three pages and someone still doesn't get the point we're trying to make.
White Savior: Part 1 ( The White Savior Complex ) w/ Emily Worrall of Barbie Savior
<p>*This is rated E for Explicit (or adults having adult conversations), not "everyone" - listener discretion is advised*On this episode, Corey and Emily Worrall of Barbie Savior sit down with Ugandan friends to talk about their experience with the White Savior Complex. Corey and Emily reflect...
Failed Missionary: White Savior: Part 1 ( The White Savior Complex ) w/ Emily Worrall of Barbie Savior on Apple Podcasts
Show Failed Missionary, Ep White Savior: Part 1 ( The White Savior Complex ) w/ Emily Worrall of Barbie Savior - Sep 5, 2018
podcasts.apple.com
Just gonna put this here
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2018
- Messages
- 276
- Reaction score
- 463
Doesn't really make the observation less true.
And it was more a response to this:
I get it. It's easier to help out in the states than to do mission trips where you might do more harm than good. If the experience was enriching for the person, what's done is done.
White Savior: Part 1 ( The White Savior Complex ) w/ Emily Worrall of Barbie Savior
<p>*This is rated E for Explicit (or adults having adult conversations), not "everyone" - listener discretion is advised*On this episode, Corey and Emily Worrall of Barbie Savior sit down with Ugandan friends to talk about their experience with the White Savior Complex. Corey and Emily reflect...player.fm
Failed Missionary: White Savior: Part 1 ( The White Savior Complex ) w/ Emily Worrall of Barbie Savior on Apple Podcasts
Show Failed Missionary, Ep White Savior: Part 1 ( The White Savior Complex ) w/ Emily Worrall of Barbie Savior - Sep 5, 2018podcasts.apple.com
Just gonna put this here
Yes. Every
D
deleted480308
You mean someone was offered money in exchange for a clearly stated set of terms and the voluntarily accepted the terms?This is so overly simplified it is comical
Often times these organizations go into vulnerable areas without ever being invited. They then tell the locals that the only way they are going to continue receiving help from the organization is if they agree to host a bunch of Americans a few times a year. So, they agree, not because they actually want to but because they don’t have much of a choice. This is how many organizations that are affiliated with different religious groups function. And why is it that way? Well, it goes back to what I was saying before: people don’t want to just donate money, they want to personally benefit, so to keep the funds coming, you gotta keep the white saviors interested. If you actually asked the people, they’d rather have their own workforce than yours and that’s what we should be developing rather than our own egos and CVs.
Excuse me for not clutching my pearls
It’s not voluntary if they are a vulnerable population and you tell them it’s your way or the highway. This is exactly why you can’t get IRB approval for offering certain incentives when working with some disadvantaged groups of people
Again, missing the point.
Also, it’s not just about race, it’s about those with privilege. You’d know if you listened, but I’m at least glad you took the time to read the title
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2018
- Messages
- 276
- Reaction score
- 463
Oh come on. That title was completely meant to be a jab at white people in particular.
Would you rather people with privilege not help the underprivileged at all? I'm perfectly fine with that. I would much rather be paid or do something else entirely.
Edit: removed some parts - thought that was about the ugandan missionary in the news recently.
Last edited:
