Will Trump win again???

[deleted941485]

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Not sure how the right can still support the authoritarian pathological liar in the wh.

I mean just look at the sh*tshow he caused on Fri in Chinese stocks on the US exchanges and then the cleanup job from the treasury afterwards.

Trump 'hereby orders' companies to seek 'alternative' markets to China as markets plunge

Reacting to a new round of Chinese tariffs, Trump said Friday that he ordered U.S. companies to "start looking" for alternative markets to China.

www.usatoday.com

Trump considers delisting Chinese firms from U.S. markets: sources

President Donald Trump's administration is considering delisting Chinese companies from U.S. stock exchanges, three sources briefed on the matter said on Friday, in what would be a radical escalation of U.S.-China trade tensions.

www.reuters.com

If that authoritarian statist crap came from a leftist like Bernie or Warren, the right would be having a CVA about it on Fox. But it's just business as normal from Trump inc now.

Personally, I'd be less worried about my portfolios Chinese exposure under Warren than Trump

The only way you get through these interesting times is being a cold hard rational actor.

 

[BLADEMDA]

I purposely left out Guns and Abortion as I doubt much gets done on those by Warren.

 

[deleted941485]

Let's take a look at Warren's policies. Do you agree with her on these issues?

1. Higher taxes- Let's assume she raises YOUR taxes by 15%. That is a conservative number as the total tax increase may be higher.

2.- Debt- Warren won't be paying down the debt but increasing it by trillions to help fund environmental causes and liberal policies for the poor.

3. Wealth tax- This won't affect any of you but do you support it?

4. Medicare for all- Let's assume she gets this passed the Congress. Do you support Medicare for all?

5. Immigration- Open borders. Chaos. Zero enforcement of existing laws on the books. Path to legal citizenship for those entering this country illegally. Millions more immigrants draining tax dollars and getting free healthcare.

1. I’d supprt letting the trump tax cuts go or even expire go back to 39.6

Everything else on that list is pretty much a non starter for me. And based on my own specialty M4A is basically a mortal threat to my livelihood so No.

 

[medgator]

Let's take a look at Warren's policies. Do you agree with her on these issues?

1. Higher taxes- Let's assume she raises YOUR taxes by 15%. That is a conservative number as the total tax increase may be higher.

2.- Debt- Warren won't be paying down the debt but increasing it by trillions to help fund environmental causes and liberal policies for the poor.

3. Wealth tax- This won't affect any of you but do you support it?

4. Medicare for all- Let's assume she gets this passed by the Congress. Do you support Medicare for all?

5. Immigration- Open borders. Chaos. Zero enforcement of existing laws on the books. Path to legal citizenship for those entering this country illegally. Millions more immigrants draining tax dollars and getting free healthcare.

6. Environment- Massive increases in the cost of carbon based fuels and foods such as beef. These costs will be due to taxes or regulations. Chines, Russians, Indians, etc will cheat on any supposed verbal agreements with Warren. USA will suffer heavily under such an arrangement.

The Chinese are going headfirst into solar and EVs much more than we are. Coal is dead not because of regulations but because of the free market, Trump's gaslighting and vote pandering notwithstanding. Solar prices and battery storage keep dropping in price every year to the point where a carbon tax may not even be needed if at all to make them cost competitive with FFs.

The open borders thing is a concern but there are two sides to every argument. We are not at a replacement birthrate and without healthy levels of immigration (which has been curtailed under Trump, both illegal and legal), we are looking at Japanese stagflation at some point. Selling more adult than pediatric diapers is never good for your economy. Illegals do pay billions in taxes despite all the outrage from the right.

Honestly immigration reform should have been the focus of Trump and the GOP when they came to office. They used it as a red meat issue to get in and many red states benefit from illegals on farms etc while looking the other way

E-Verify Laws Across Southern Red States Are Barely Enforced

A pretend war on immigration.

www.bloomberg.com

It's just very hypocritical to rail against things like healthcare and immigration reform but not bring your own solutions to the table.

As for the debt, history shows the deficit went down under Clinton and Obama towards the end of their presidencies. The problem is that Republicans love to cut taxes but still spend as much as dems do

 

[BLADEMDA]

Where Elizabeth Warren stands on the biggest 2020 issues

Our policy team breaks down all of the presidential candidate’s proposals on the biggest issues driving the 2020 race.

www.politico.com

I really think the ISSUES are why people will vote for Warren or Trump. I simply don't agree with her on most of the issues.

 

[BLADEMDA]

The Chinese are going headfirst into solar and EVs much more than we are.
The open borders thing is a concern but there are two sides to every argument. We are not at a replacement birthrate and without healthy levels of immigration (which has been curtailed under Trump, both illegal and legal), we are looking at Japanese stagflation at some point. Selling more adult than pediatric diapers is never good for your economy. Illegals do pay billions in taxes despite all the outrage from the right.

Honestly immigration reform should have been the focus of Trump and the GOP when they came to office. They used it as a red meat issue to get in and many red states benefit from illegals on farms etc while looking the other way

E-Verify Laws Across Southern Red States Are Barely Enforced

A pretend war on immigration.

www.bloomberg.com

It's just very hypocritical to rail against things like healthcare and immigration reform but not bring your own solutions to the table.

As for the debt, history shows the deficit went down under Clinton and Obama towards the end of their presidencies. The problem is that Republicans love to cut taxes but still spend as much as dems do

The Chinese are not to be trusted. They will do whatever gives them the edge. They are liars and thieves.

I am NOT railing against healthcare. I am asking your opinion about the issues. Warren wants Medicare for all. That is either "for" or "against" for most voters.

Immigration- Warren supports open borders. That isn't the same as a guest worker program.

Debt- I agree the GOP has failed us on this issue. But, Warren will make it much worse.

 

[medgator]

Debt- I agree the GOP has failed us on this issue. But, Warren will make it much worse.

How so? Dems at least raise revenue for their profligate spending. No reason to think Warren would be any worse than Obama or bill Clinton. The debt/deficit from the first term of Obama came courtesy of gwb and the great recession.

Personally, I think Obamacare was a good centrist compromise to avoid m4a.

The problem is, you had this guy come in and Overpromise and not deliver on healthcare, among other things. GOP should have tried to make the ACA work. Now they may not have a choice

 

[hankbb02]

What Trump did with the Ukrainian president wasn't great, however, I do not see how it was illegal. Asking another politician (who claims to be fighting corruption) if they can investigate a political opponents corrupt family in their country?? I got to imagine this happens all the time...




It's the same as 2016, the majority voting for the lesser of two evils. I'm not voting FOR Trump, I'm voting AGAINST Warren. I care less about the person and more about the policy. Trump can tweet away with his crazy $h!t, but as long as he doesn't spend $20 Trillion on a Green New Deal, $30 Trillion on National Health Care, and $3 Trillion on forgiving student loan debt I'm happy...well happy-er.

BTW - Where'd all the people go who were up in arms with the waste of spending $5 Billion on a wall? Are these REALLY the same people ok with $5-10 TRILLION spent on the green new deal? Surprising for sure.

Are YOU ok with the fact that deficit under Trump is now 1 Trillion per year?

 

[medgator]

The Chinese are not to be trusted. They will do whatever gives them the edge. They are liars and thieves.

I agree, but Americans have been in bed with them for decades. AAPL shareholders have made tons of $$$$ under jobs and cook with Chinese supply chains. You think the average American doesn't love their cheap tablet, smartphone, TV etc.?

Blunt tariffs aren't the answer. Do things surgically. Shut off American markets in a reciprocal fashion etc.

Do you support Trump's authoritarian desires to shut off us companies from doing business in China and Chinese stocks trading on us exchanges? Is an authoritarian statist economy good for the US long term?

 

[hankbb02]

It speaks so clearly that Schiff had to concoct what he thought was a comedic parody to make it seem even remotely crooked.

Try again.

You either didn't read it or your reading comprehension leaves something to be desired.

 

[PainDrain]

Steele was a high level British intelligence agent who was “retired”. How do you feel about Mifsud, Harper, Turk, etc. Our government under the Obama leadership led a operation using our intelligence assets as well as our allies (British, Italy, Australia, Ukraine, Germany etc) to spy on a US citizen running for the presidency of the United States to undermine his campaign before and after the election.

The issue is not a republican vs democratic issue. Stop the division over party, race, sex, wealth etc and understand the implications of the above. All major players of both parties wanted Trump to lose...why

Umm. You have been watching to much Faux news.

Let’s look at some inconvenient facts. Carter page was under suspicion of being a Russian agent as far back as 2012. The Russians saw him as a clown who could be easily swayed by the promise of financial reward. His former PhD advisor describes his attitude towards all things Russian as odd and against western policy. Fast forward and this guy joins the Trump team. He then triggered the FBI to watch him and the FISA warrant was renewed multiple times. Trump’s policy stance and public statements are also at odds with basically all US policy at the time. He manages to even get the GOP to water down the platform on the Ukraine. Trump’s statements regarding Putin are also very troubling during the campaign and are outside the norm.

Mifsud is viewed, and this is in the Mueller report, as someone with close ties to Russian and US intelligence viewed him as a likely Russian agent.

All this is happening at a time when the Obama administration realizes that the Russians are attempting to sway an election.

And let’s not overlook the staggering and unprecedented number of contacts between Trump’s campaign and transition team and Russian actors. The fact his own son met with a Russian lawyer in Trump tower constantly gets overlooked. Trump delivers a speech asking for the release of Clinton’s emails and within hours there is a Wikileaks document dump. The fact conservatives all ignore or try to reshape all this as Obama dirty tricks is more troubling.

 

[deleted643396]

Really? The president of the United States withholds $400MM from every country that doesn't investigate Americans based just on hearsay? Can you please show me a precedent, especially one involving prosecuting Republicans?

That entire phone conversation rings like blackmail, or quid pro quo, to anybody who's ever seen corruption before. And withholding an immense foreign aid (when compared to the Ukrainian economy) just confirmed it.

Let me stop posting here, because this is getting futile: those who have always found excuses for Trump will continue finding them, even when reality stares them in the face. Because it's not about the truth; it's about sharing the same bigoted values and/or selling themselves and the country out for thirty pieces of silver less in taxes.

Taxes and social media is the “bread and circuses” for the modern day.

 

[Mikkel]

I think it's pretty clear that Biden could be a target for blackmail by the Russians and Ukrainians if, heaven forbid, he was elected president. I think this disqualifies him completely from office unless he tells the American people 100% what the fact of the matter is (he's pretty good at that).

 

[medgator]

I think it's pretty clear that Biden could be a target for blackmail by the Russians and Ukrainians if, heaven forbid, he was elected president. I think this disqualifies him completely from office unless he tells the American people 100% what the fact of the matter is (he's pretty good at that).

Could say the exact same thing about the current president. Didn't seem to disqualify him.

The right seems to love him for it

Trump sides with Russia against FBI at Helsinki summit

The US president contradicts intelligence agencies over claims of interference in the US election.

www.bbc.com

Trump Firm Considered Giving Putin $50 Million Penthouse, Broker Says | Fortune

To make the building more desirable to rich buyers.

fortune.com

 

[radsisrad]

You either didn't read it or your reading comprehension leaves something to be desired.

You're the one who's making a positive claim, so the burden of proof is on you.

Sell us.

 

[deleted171991]

What the Republicans need to figure out is that the enemy is not the other party. The enemy is China, Russia, North Korea etc. Those are the people who hate us, who grow up being indoctrinated that the US is an evil empire.

Americans used to understand this. America First means that one doesn't put Russia ahead of America(ns), e.g. the FBI. Only hypocrites can vote for a hypocrite president and then defend him.

 

[dannyboy1]

Taxes and social media is the “bread and circuses” for the modern day.

Yup. I couldn’t find Ukraine on the map, nor do i give two ****s about it. Keeping more of my income though.......

 

[Stank811]

Umm. You have been watching to much Faux news.

Let’s look at some inconvenient facts. Carter page was under suspicion of being a Russian agent as far back as 2012. The Russians saw him as a clown who could be easily swayed by the promise of financial reward. His former PhD advisor describes his attitude towards all things Russian as odd and against western policy. Fast forward and this guy joins the Trump team. He then triggered the FBI to watch him and the FISA warrant was renewed multiple times. Trump’s policy stance and public statements are also at odds with basically all US policy at the time. He manages to even get the GOP to water down the platform on the Ukraine. Trump’s statements regarding Putin are also very troubling during the campaign and are outside the norm.

Mifsud is viewed, and this is in the Mueller report, as someone with close ties to Russian and US intelligence viewed him as a likely Russian agent.

All this is happening at a time when the Obama administration realizes that the Russians are attempting to sway an election.

And let’s not overlook the staggering and unprecedented number of contacts between Trump’s campaign and transition team and Russian actors. The fact his own son met with a Russian lawyer in Trump tower constantly gets overlooked. Trump delivers a speech asking for the release of Clinton’s emails and within hours there is a Wikileaks document dump. The fact conservatives all ignore or try to reshape all this as Obama dirty tricks is more troubling.

Why do you label me as a conservative if you look at my voting history it would suggest the opposite. Like I stated get rid of the labels. I don’t watch any news channels or spend much time in a single news website.

You look at things to simply. All the Russian points of contact are US intelligence or our allies intelligence assets. Our own intelligence communities labeled its own agents as Russian agents and then told them to make contact with the Trump team in order support the FISA and some made up Russian narrative in hopes of the naive American public turning on Trump.

To late the shipped has sailed.

 

[medgator]

made up Russian narrative in hopes of the naive American public turning on Trump.

Who needs a made up narrative? Trump is Putin's lapdog. Just look at how he responds to him or deals with him on a regular basis since he was elected.

Trump's actions and words are all anyone with any shred of objectivity needs to see what a Putin mancrush he has. Many Republicans turned on Trump after the ridiculous statements out of Helenski but that wasn't just a one off.

 

[Stank811]

Who needs a made up narrative? Trump is Putin's lapdog. Just look at how he responds to him or deals with him on a regular basis since he was elected.

Trump's actions and words are all anyone with any shred of objectivity needs to see what a Putin mancrush he has. Many Republicans turned on Trump after the ridiculous statements out of Helenski but that wasn't just a one off.

I believe he has sanctioned Russia on several occasions and kicked diplomats out of the US as well. So what are you looking for him to do exactly.

 

[medgator]

I believe he has sanctioned Russia on several occasions and kicked diplomats out of the US as well. So what are you looking for him to do exactly.

You mean his administration has along with Congress.

Thank God for Veto proof majorities

In A Rare Show Of Bipartisanship, Senate Sends Russia Sanctions To Trump

The Senate voted overwhelmingly Thursday to impose new sanctions on Russia, North Korea and Iran — over threats from the White House to veto the measure.

www.npr.org

Of course he is still giving Putin a free pass on Crimea.

Trump says it's "appropriate" for Russia to rejoin the G7

"I could certainly see it being the G8 again."

www.axios.com

Some of his supporters kinda like Russia, honestly

Trump supporters whose Russia shirts went viral: ‘We’re not traitors’

Two men from Delaware, Ohio, who went viral after wearing custom-made T-shirts reading “I’d Rather Be A Russian Than A Democrat,” are pushing back on criticism that they are “…

thehill.com

 

[radsisrad]

What the Republicans need to figure out is that the enemy is not the other party. The enemy is China, Russia, North Korea etc. Those are the people who hate us, who grow up being indoctrinated that the US is an evil empire.

Americans used to understand this. America First means that one doesn't put Russia ahead of America(ns), e.g. the FBI. Only hypocrites can vote for a hypocrite president and then defend him.

Not a Republican here, but when the "other party" prioritizes the interests of illegal aliens over those of American citizens, they are the enemy. When the FBI is thoroughly corrupt and attempts to both meddle in the 2016 election and neuter the Presidency for which the majority of the electoral college voted, I have far more against them than I do against Russia, which has neither picked my pocket nor broken my leg.

"America First" means the prioritization of American citizens' interests over those over other people. No more inane wars, no more ridiculous amounts of foreign aid when we're 22 trillion dollars in debt, and certainly no more coddling of illegal aliens - they need to go back, get in line, and wait for their respective turns.

If Democrats decide to represent middle-class Americans one day, let me know.

 

[medgator]

, no more ridiculous amounts of foreign aid when we're 22 trillion dollars in debt, and certainly no more coddling of illegal aliens - they need to go back, get in line, and wait for their respective turns.

If Democrats decide to represent middle-class Americans one day, let me know.

Did you care about the debt when gwb and now Trump created tons of it?

Do you agree with Trump pledging our military to the country that sent us the 9/11 terrorists without even a nod from Congress?

Tulsi Gabbard accuses Trump of being ‘Saudi Arabia’s b----’ over response to attacks on oil fields

Democratic presidential candidate Rep. Tusli Gabbard, D-Hawaii, on Sunday took President Trump to task over his response to attacks on Saudi oil fields, likening his wait-and-see approach to being “Saudi Arabia’s b----.”

www.foxnews.com

 

[PainDrain]

You look at things to simply. All the Russian points of contact are US intelligence or our allies intelligence assets. Our own intelligence communities labeled its own agents as Russian agents and then told them to make contact with the Trump team in order support the FISA and some made up Russian narrative in hopes of the naive American public turning on Trump.

To late the shipped has sailed.

Hahahaha. You really are into magical thinking. Carter Page had multiple contacts with Russian agents. These aren’t some fake agents who are secret CIA plants. It was overheard between two Russian agents in 2013 that he was being courted. That is confirmed. Look up Victor Podobnyy. If you say this was a CIA game then you are either a ***** or a Russian working for the IRA.

The people Trump Jr met in Trump tower are also far from CIA. The lawyer has deep Kremlin ties and was sent to discuss lifting the Magnitsky sanctions.


How about we make a bet here to see which one turns out to be true. My side: if Trump leaves office it will come out that he has extensive Russian money laundering ties via Deutche Bank and he will be indicted on financial crimes. It will also come out that he was being leveraged by Putin. The Russians will of course deny it all and the GOP will act shocked.

I believe your side will be......wasn’t it something about servers being dumped next October showing Obama was faking all the Trump-Russia stuff to undermine his campaign. Extensive Obama crimes, blah blah blah.

Bet you a bottle of nice Vodka comrade.

 

[radsisrad]

Did you care about the debt when gwb and now Trump created tons of it?

Do you agree with Trump pledging our military to the country that sent us the 9/11 terrorists without even a nod from Congress?

Tulsi Gabbard accuses Trump of being ‘Saudi Arabia’s b----’ over response to attacks on oil fields

Democratic presidential candidate Rep. Tusli Gabbard, D-Hawaii, on Sunday took President Trump to task over his response to attacks on Saudi oil fields, likening his wait-and-see approach to being “Saudi Arabia’s b----.”

www.foxnews.com

1. Of course I do.

2. No. We should be sending nobody money, apart from loans.

If Ron Paul had run in 2016, I'd have voted for him.

 

[medgator]

1. Of course I do.

2. No. We should be sending nobody money, apart from loans.

If Ron Paul had run in 2016, I'd have voted for him.

Fyi libertarians aren't as anti immigrant as the modern GOP/Trump base and rightfully so

The 14 Most Common Arguments against Immigration and Why They're Wrong

These are the main arguments against immigration, my quick responses to them, and links to some of the most relevant evidence.

www.cato.org

New Research on Illegal Immigration and Crime

How illegal immigrants affect crime is one of the most contentious subareas of debate in the entire immigration issues, and Cato scholars have found that illegal and legal immigrants both have lower incarceration rates than native‐born Americans and lower criminal conviction rates in Texas. Now...

www.cato.org

Statistically speaking, most of the recent acts of domestic Mass shootings/terrorism have been committed by citizens with right wing sympathies/beliefs, not illegals

 

[Stank811]

Hahahaha. You really are into magical thinking. Carter Page had multiple contacts with Russian agents. These aren’t some fake agents who are secret CIA plants. It was overheard between two Russian agents in 2013 that he was being courted. That is confirmed. Look up Victor Podobnyy. If you say this was a CIA game then you are either a ***** or a Russian working for the IRA.

The people Trump Jr met in Trump tower are also far from CIA. The lawyer has deep Kremlin ties and was sent to discuss lifting the Magnitsky sanctions.


How about we make a bet here to see which one turns out to be true. My side: if Trump leaves office it will come out that he has extensive Russian money laundering ties via Deutche Bank and he will be indicted on financial crimes. It will also come out that he was being leveraged by Putin. The Russians will of course deny it all and the GOP will act shocked.

I believe your side will be......wasn’t it something about servers being dumped next October showing Obama was faking all the Trump-Russia stuff to undermine his campaign. Extensive Obama crimes, blah blah blah.

Bet you a bottle of nice Vodka comrade.

No more magical the yours.

I will take your bet but I don’t drink vodka.

 

[DrGasPasser]

None of the “facts” that you listed, if true, are illegal and are dubious grounds for FISA surveillance of US citizens; they absolutely would not meet the much higher standards for criminal surveillance. In America, you can hold whacky ideas like Iran is not a threat or a few people did something on 9/11 and be elected to Congress without having to worry about an FBI surveillance van being parked in front of your house. Keep in mind that the Trump Campaign was pretty transparent about wanting a reset in Russian-American relations. While we can debate the wisdom of such policies, those are disagreements to be hashed out in a voting booth, not a FISA court.

Finally, the IG report on the origins of Operation Crossfire Hurricane will be available in a few weeks. I’d suggest waiting on that report before assigning fact and fiction.

Umm. You have been watching to much Faux news.

Let’s look at some inconvenient facts. Carter page was under suspicion of being a Russian agent as far back as 2012. The Russians saw him as a clown who could be easily swayed by the promise of financial reward. His former PhD advisor describes his attitude towards all things Russian as odd and against western policy. Fast forward and this guy joins the Trump team. He then triggered the FBI to watch him and the FISA warrant was renewed multiple times. Trump’s policy stance and public statements are also at odds with basically all US policy at the time. He manages to even get the GOP to water down the platform on the Ukraine. Trump’s statements regarding Putin are also very troubling during the campaign and are outside the norm.

Mifsud is viewed, and this is in the Mueller report, as someone with close ties to Russian and US intelligence viewed him as a likely Russian agent.

All this is happening at a time when the Obama administration realizes that the Russians are attempting to sway an election.

And let’s not overlook the staggering and unprecedented number of contacts between Trump’s campaign and transition team and Russian actors. The fact his own son met with a Russian lawyer in Trump tower constantly gets overlooked. Trump delivers a speech asking for the release of Clinton’s emails and within hours there is a Wikileaks document dump. The fact conservatives all ignore or try to reshape all this as Obama dirty tricks is more troubling.

 

[DrGasPasser]

Statistically speaking, most of the recent acts of domestic Mass shootings/terrorism have been committed by citizens with right wing sympathies/beliefs, not illegals

I’d love to know where you got that statistic and how they defined mass shootings (or determined the political persuasions of the shooter for that matter).

I ask because the largest warehouse of data, the GVA, defines mass shooting as 4 or more being shot or killed. The 2013 DOJ / Congressional definition is 3 or more. Gang violence dominates those statistics and I doubt the person pulling the trigger was a conservative in any sense of the word.

 

[PainDrain]

None of the “facts” that you listed, if true, are illegal and are dubious grounds for FISA surveillance of US citizens; they absolutely would not meet the much higher standards for criminal surveillance. In America, you can hold whacky ideas like Iran is not a threat or a few people did something on 9/11 and be elected to Congress without having to worry about an FBI surveillance van being parked in front of your house. Keep in mind that the Trump Campaign was pretty transparent about wanting a reset in Russian-American relations. While we can debate the wisdom of such policies, those are disagreements to be hashed out in a voting booth, not a FISA court.

Finally, the IG report on the origins of Operation Crossfire Hurricane will be available in a few weeks. I’d suggest waiting on that report before assigning fact and fiction.

Yah, I am waiting with bated breath. I am sure Bar will attempt to weaponize the report. Let’s look at some context, had Carter Page even attempted to approach a US government position during the Cold War years he would almost surely be denied access and cast aside as a spy. Fast forward a few years and apparently it’s ok to think Putin is great, Russia can do no wrong and it’s all swell in the GOP. Paaahhhlease.

 

[doctalaughs]

Dems are idiots on immigration, extreme climate change policies and expanding entitlements (as as logically insane a way of changing an economy tilted towards corporations and mega-wealthy, which I think we can all agree on).

Republicans (or what we call that party now) have abandoned their roots in fiscal responsibility, small government and self reliance. They are crazy on guns, anti-abortion, religion, gay-marriage and isolationism... things most of the country could care less about.

This leaves a large segment of fiscally-conservative, reasonable border-security and economy folks (like myself, who I believe are common) with no one to vote for....

 

[radsisrad]

Fyi libertarians aren't as anti immigrant as the modern GOP/Trump base and rightfully so

The 14 Most Common Arguments against Immigration and Why They're Wrong

These are the main arguments against immigration, my quick responses to them, and links to some of the most relevant evidence.

www.cato.org

New Research on Illegal Immigration and Crime

How illegal immigrants affect crime is one of the most contentious subareas of debate in the entire immigration issues, and Cato scholars have found that illegal and legal immigrants both have lower incarceration rates than native‐born Americans and lower criminal conviction rates in Texas. Now...

www.cato.org

Statistically speaking, most of the recent acts of domestic Mass shootings/terrorism have been committed by citizens with right wing sympathies/beliefs, not illegals

I'm not a libertarian.

You can call Trump "anti-immigrant", but there were plenty of people that were displeased with his SOTU address advocating higher-than-ever levels of legal immigration. I'm one of them. As the US economy becomes more and more automated, we will need fewer human workers, and the importation of millions of people every year is an environmental disaster, to boot. As someone who is concerned about global warming, I find this pressure-release valve model of population transfer to Western countries to be extraordinarily short-sighted.

 

[medgator]

I’d love to know where you got that statistic and how they defined mass shootings (or determined the political persuasions of the shooter for that matter).

I ask because the largest warehouse of data, the GVA, defines mass shooting as 4 or more being shot or killed. The 2013 DOJ / Congressional definition is 3 or more. Gang violence dominates those statistics and I doubt the person pulling the trigger was a conservative in any sense of the word.

How is gang violence in Chicago or Baltimore relevant to all the recent spike ring wing domestic terrorism happening all over the country in Pittsburgh, Charleston, El paso, parkland etc the last several years?

It's a common right wing red herring argument I've never understood

After El Paso, Right-Wing Terrorists Have Killed More People on U.S. Soil Than Jihadis Have Since 9/11

So why is the government’s focus still on Islamic radicalism?

slate.com

Moreover Trump has purposely ignored it, unsurprisingly. After all, he needs them to show up to the polls...

Ex-FBI official names right-wing extremism one of the biggest security challenges for 2020

A former FBI intelligence officer said Thursday that combating right-wing extremism and white nationalism poses a serious challenge for security officials going into 2020.“If you want intelligence …

thehill.com

Trump officials have redirected resources from countering far-right, racism-fueled domestic terrorism

Despite President Trump's condemnation of racism and white supremacy, his administration has redirected money and attention from Homeland Security programs targeting domestic terrorism threats from far-right, white nationalist and anti-government groups.

www.latimes.com

 

[Mikkel]

What the Republicans need to figure out is that the enemy is not the other party. The enemy is China, Russia, North Korea etc. Those are the people who hate us, who grow up being indoctrinated that the US is an evil empire.

Americans used to understand this. America First means that one doesn't put Russia ahead of America(ns), e.g. the FBI. Only hypocrites can vote for a hypocrite president and then defend him.

You say that as if Jim Comey didn't wreck the 2016 election for both Hillary and Trump.

You say that as if Lisa Page and Strzok didn't collude to take down Trump.

You say that as if the FBI largely wasn't allowed to investigate Hillary with the tools they needed, like a grand jury and wire taps.


The FBI and Obama DOJ are and had plenty of partisans who tried to tilt the scales toward their preferred political outcome. How is that legal?

 

[DrGasPasser]

How is gang violence in Chicago or Baltimore relevant to all the recent spike ring wing domestic terrorism happening all over the country in Pittsburgh, Charleston, El paso, parkland etc the last several years?

It’s relevant because left-wing policies allows gang violence to flourish in places like Chicago and Baltimore. It’s also notable that you conveniently omitted the recent domestic terrorist attacks by leftist such as Willem Van Spronsen, Ismaaiyl Brinsley (Dallas), the execution of NYPD officers by BLM sympathizer Ismaaiyl Brinsley, Connor Betts (Dayton), James Hodgkinson (DC), etc.
In other words, I’m pretty sure that neither political extreme is above using mass violence.

 

[medgator]

It’s relevant because left-wing policies allows gang violence to flourish in places like Chicago and Baltimore. It’s also notable that you conveniently omitted the recent domestic terrorist attacks by leftist such asWillem Van Spronsen

1 vs how many right wing ones?

Do you agree with the current administration in redirecting funds away from deterring future attacks despite the clear data showing a growing problem?

Right wing policies letting Mass murders occur at schools, synagogues, music festivals etc seem more problematic as it not just confined to the hoods of Baltimore or Chicago

 

[DrGasPasser]

1 vs how many right wing ones?

Do you agree with the current administration in redirecting funds away from deterring future attacks despite the clear data showing a growing problem?

Right wing policies letting Mass murders occur at schools, synagogues, music festivals etc seem more problematic as it not just confined to the hoods of Baltimore or Chicago

Assuming you are referring to the Trump Administration’s 2017 redirection of the $10 million that Obama had reserved for the Countering Violent Extremism initiative (which included the Life After Hate subaward), I can’t say that the decision gives me too much heartburn. Specifically, the evidence behind that initiative was lacking and I have no problem with that money being routed toward street level law enforcement.

Was there another specific instance that you were referencing?

 

[medgator]

Assuming you are referring to the Trump Administration’s 2017 redirection of the $10 million that Obama had reserved for the Countering Violent Extremism initiative (which included the Life After Hate subaward), I can’t say that the decision gives me too much heartburn. Specifically, the evidence behind that initiative was lacking and I have no problem with that money being routed toward street level law enforcement.

Was there another specific instance that you were referencing?

You mean the evidence that was very clear but supressed?

DHS Crushed This Analyst for Warning About Far-Right Terror

Back in 2009, Daryl Johnson was an analyst at the Department of Homeland Security focusing on far-right extremist groups. But when a report he wrote about their danger sparked criticism from conservative pundits, DHS shunted Johnson aside and gutted his office. Now, with at least six dead at a...

www.wired.com

I'm guessing those families of dead loves ones in Pittsburgh, parkland, el paso, Charleston and Gilroy will disagree with you

 

[Splenda88]

Trump is crook...

 

[DrGasPasser]

And I’m guessing that the families of the 17,000+ people who were murdered in America by someone without political motivations would disagree with you.

Interestingly, a lot of left wing groups with ties to the Muslim community have wanted the CVE’s funding curtailed since a lot of its budget goes toward monitoring that community. People got all butt hurt when the LAH portion got the axe too because it was the portion dedicated to far-right monitoring. Never mind that none of those programs could be tied to any measurable reductions in extremist crime.

So, do we fund causes directed at the 50 people killed by political or religious extremists in 2018, or direct those funds towards the other 17000+ who were murdered? That is the more appropriate question, not some silly notion that Trump wants to empower right-wing extremism.

You mean the evidence that was very clear but supressed?

DHS Crushed This Analyst for Warning About Far-Right Terror

Back in 2009, Daryl Johnson was an analyst at the Department of Homeland Security focusing on far-right extremist groups. But when a report he wrote about their danger sparked criticism from conservative pundits, DHS shunted Johnson aside and gutted his office. Now, with at least six dead at a...

www.wired.com

I'm guessing those families of dead loves ones in Pittsburgh, parkland, el paso, Charleston and Gilroy will disagree with you

 

[medgator]

And I’m guessing that the families of the 17,000+ people who were murdered in America by someone without political motivations would disagree with you.

So, do we fund causes directed at the 50 people killed by political or religious extremists in 2018, or direct those funds towards the other 17000+ who were murdered? That is the more appropriate question, not some silly notion that Trump wants to empower right-wing extremism.

Ignoring the rise in domestic right wing terrorism and hate crimes under Trump won't magically make them go away.

Hopefully the next president will deal with this issue (or at least stop fomenting it, blaming both sides, equating fascists to those that oppose them, calling immigrants/asylum seekers "Invaders" etc)

 

[DrGasPasser]

Hopefully the President, whoever it is, will pay attention to all domestic terrorism - both right and left wing. Groups like CAIR, ELF, Antifa, BLM, New Black Panthers, Nation of Islam, etc. deserve the same attention as the KKK, Aryan Brotherhood/Nation, Proud Boys, Volksfront, etc. However, let’s not pretend that the ideologies espoused by any of these groups rank in the top 10 problems faced by the overwhelming majority of Americans.

Ignoring the rise in domestic right wing terrorism and hate crimes under Trump won't magically make them go away.

Hopefully the next president will deal with this issue (or at least stop fomenting it, blaming both sides, equating fascists to those that oppose them etc)

 

[medgator]

Hopefully the President, whoever it is, will pay attention to all domestic terrorism - both right and left wing. Groups like CAIR, ELF, Antifa, BLM, New Black Panthers, Nation of Islam, etc. deserve the same attention as the KKK, Aryan Brotherhood/Nation, Proud Boys, Volksfront, etc. However, let’s not pretend that the ideologies espoused by any of these groups rank in the top 10 problems faced by the overwhelming majority of Americans.

Please link me to all of the antifa and BLM mass shootings committed at schools, festivals and places of worship. I'm all ears

 

[DrGasPasser]

Please link me to all of the antifa and BLM mass shootings committed at schools, festivals and places of worship. I'm all ears

I already did. The Dallas shooter who murdered 5 and wounded 6 police officers was a BLM-inspired racist who wanted to kill white cops. 2016 shooting of Dallas police officers - Wikipedia

The NYPD shooter who executed 2 officers was a BLM-inspired racist with ties to various other extremists organizttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_killings_of_NYPD_officers

The Baton Rouge shooter was a black separatist who espoused BLM, Nation of Islam and various other extremists views before shooting 6 and killing 3 cops.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_shooting_of_Baton_Rouge_police_officers

The Dayton shooter long expressed support for antifa accounts, causes and individuals including promoted extreme hatred of American border enforcement.

Redirect Notice

BLM held multiple rallies where they called for the execution of police officers including Baton Rouge.

Redirect Notice

Redirect Notice

 

[medgator]

I already did. The Dallas shooter who murdered 5 and wounded 6 police officers was a BLM-inspired racist who wanted to kill white cops. 2016 shooting of Dallas police officers - Wikipedia

The NYPD shooter who executed 2 officers was a BLM-inspired racist with ties to various other extremists organizttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_killings_of_NYPD_officers

The Baton Rouge shooter was a black separatist who espoused BLM, Nation of Islam and various other extremists views before shooting 6 and killing 3 cops.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_shooting_of_Baton_Rouge_police_officers

The Dayton shooter long expressed support for antifa accounts, causes and individuals including promoted extreme hatred of American border enforcement.

Redirect Notice

BLM held multiple rallies where they called for the execution of police officers including Baton Rouge.

Redirect Notice

Redirect Notice

Do you think BLM came to exist in a vacuum?

What Research Says About Race and Police Shootings

Two new studies have revived the long-running debate over how police respond to white criminal suspects versus African Americans.

www.citylab.com

What has prompted the violence against jews, concert goers, school children etc?

 

[radsisrad]

Please link me to all of the antifa and BLM mass shootings committed at schools, festivals and places of worship. I'm all ears

There are other forms of terrorism. Antifa is a terrorist group that's gaining steam because the PDs and mayors in liberal cities allow them to run rampant - including directing traffic by force as police stand by and do nothing.

As organized action (vs. actions of loners) goes, Antifa is a far greater threat, given that it is supported by the system.

 

[radsisrad]

Ignoring the rise in domestic right wing terrorism and hate crimes under Trump won't magically make them go away.

Hopefully the next president will deal with this issue (or at least stop fomenting it, blaming both sides, equating fascists to those that oppose them, calling immigrants/asylum seekers "Invaders" etc)

Divorce emotional connections from words for a minute and describe how illegally breaking into a country to be a net beneficiary from its wealth, at cost to its citizens, is substantively different from an invasion.

 

[medgator]

As organized action (vs. actions of loners) goes, Antifa is a far greater threat, given that it is supported by the system.

The body counts would suggest otherwise

CNN Reports: Since 9/11, Right Wing Terrorists Have Killed More People In U.S. Than Jihadist Terrorists

In a CNN "reality check" segment on September 11th, the network reported that white nationalist terrorism is a larger problem than "jihadist terrorists." CNN's John Avlon reports that "since 9/11," right-wing groups have killed more people than the jihadist terrorists. "Since 9/11, right wing...

www.realclearpolitics.com

 

[medgator]

Divorce emotional connections from words for a minute and describe how illegally breaking into a country to be a net beneficiary from its wealth, at cost to its citizens, is substantively different from an invasion.

How is perpetuating a broken system a better alternative? Remember, dems didn't torpedo immigration reform in 2013 and many red states benefit from illegal labor

In Texas, lawmakers don't mess with employers of undocumented workers - The Texas Tribune

For all their condemnations of illegal immigration, Texas lawmakers — Republican and Democratic — have shown little interest in cracking down on businesses that employ undocumented workers.

www.texastribune.org

For all the bluster that illegal immigration engenders from the right, talk of the wall etc., nothing is ever discussed about criminalizing the employers of these illegals. After all, you've got illegal labor even being used on some Trump properties after all

 

[deleted87051]

How is perpetuating a broken system a better alternative? Remember, dems didn't torpedo immigration reform in 2013 and many red states benefit from illegal labor

In Texas, lawmakers don't mess with employers of undocumented workers - The Texas Tribune

For all their condemnations of illegal immigration, Texas lawmakers — Republican and Democratic — have shown little interest in cracking down on businesses that employ undocumented workers.

www.texastribune.org

For all the bluster that illegal immigration from the right, talk of the wall etc. Nothing is ever discussed about criminalizing the employers of these illegals.

People who feel strongly about it can boycott products processed by illegal immigrant labor....like vegetables...and chicken.