Will Trump win again???

[medgator]

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Obama asked for a foreign leader's help (Putin) to let off the United States in an election year to help Obama's reelection chances. In exchange, Obama did not interfere in Russia's invasion of Crimea, which shocked the world. Post-Soviet Russia invades and annexes territory from another country, and Obama doesn't care.

Hillary Clinton and the DNC paid FusionGPS, which subcontracted Michael Steele, a former foreign agent, to use his Russian intelligence sources to manufacture dirt on Trump for election gain.

The Obama administration weaponized the IRS to target tea-party conservatives to affect their impact in election years.

The Obama DOJ used foreign nationals, like Mifsud, to entrap Americans, and use that against Trump in an election.

And the right wing conspiracy theory machine is in full effect.

Let me guess... Trump tower in Turkey is just fine

Ivanka Tweet Thanking Turkey's Erdogan for Trump Towers Launch Re-Emerges

Donald Trump admitted in 2015 that the towers represent a conflict of interest in his dealings with Turkey.

www.newsweek.com

 

[Mikkel]

And the right wing conspiracy theory machine is in full effect.

Let me guess... Trump tower in Turkey is just fine

Ivanka Tweet Thanking Turkey's Erdogan for Trump Towers Launch Re-Emerges

Donald Trump admitted in 2015 that the towers represent a conflict of interest in his dealings with Turkey.

www.newsweek.com

You didn't address the facts from my post, because you can't refute them.

Regarding Trump towers in Turkey, Trump organization owns property all over the world. Did Trump offer something to Turkey so that Trump organization can receive favors in return?

 

[medgator]

You didn't address the facts from my post, because you can't refute them.

Regarding Trump towers in Turkey, Trump organization owns property all over the world. Did Trump offer something to Turkey so that Trump organization can receive favors in return?

Yes. You just missed the news this week?

Let me know when you substantiate your talking points

 

[vector2]

Maybe the Kurds deserve their own country.

One of the ironies of that situation is that they might have one, if not for one of our other allies in the region. Good will toward Turkey and loyalty to them as an ally has been a large part of why the US has not supported an independent Kurdish state. Post Ottoman secular Turkey has hated the Kurds and been semi-regularly killing them since the end of World War I, and the Kurd have hated them back. A reasonable argument could be made that both sides had legitimate grievances.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the Kurds are not wholly unlike the Mujahideen. We have supported both while we have had common enemies. They're not at the crazy Wahhabi end of the Islam scale but they're not exactly warm & fuzzy enlightened liberal western Muslims either.

Careful what you wish for. A big reason they've been so froggy with Turkey has been Turkey's secularism.

This isn't my endorsement or condemnation of any particular US policy or non-policy, or action we have or haven't taken. I'm just saying ... we've given these guys an awful lot over the last 30 years, when objectively we really never owed them anything at all. That their objectives sometimes meshed with ours and we worked together doesn't mean our destiny must be forever coupled to theirs. Maybe there's a graceful way to extricate ourselves from that conflict, maybe there's not.

I think we can (or at least should) all agree that the ideal way to address the situation wasnt for Trump to have a phone call with Erdogan and then pull out abruptly without talking to the JCS or his DoD secretary.

You beat me to the punch with your point about the mujahideen. Our treatment of Afghanistan post 1989 directly contributed to the rise of the Taliban, and yet we seem to be doing the same thing with the Kurds. YPG has had 11,000 casualties fighting ISIL in Syria...we've had like 10.

Let's also not forget the thousands of ISIS captives who will be set free if the Kurds have to leave their guard duties to go fight a Turkish invasion.

 

[Mikkel]

Yes. You just missed the news this week?

Let me know when you substantiate your talking points

What favor did Turkey do for Trump?

 

[medgator]

What favor did Turkey do for Trump?

Trump Towers Istanbul gets a second look after president’s surprise Syria move

Critics point to a 2015 Breitbart interview where Trump said he had a “conflict of interest” due to the Trump Towers in Istanbul.

www.fastcompany.com

 

[BoolaHI]

Hmmmn, many here present real facts, a baseline of binary data/information that can assist folks in having either a clearer picture or help them in coming to their own decisions.

Then there a few others, when presented with real facts and situations, pivot to a cache of talking points and pithy platitudes a basic cornucopia of conflation and deflection — huge difference. Imagine if this same folks utilized such lazy and putative ways in their medical practice—-scary huh?

 

[Mikkel]

Trump Towers Istanbul gets a second look after president’s surprise Syria move

Critics point to a 2015 Breitbart interview where Trump said he had a “conflict of interest” due to the Trump Towers in Istanbul.

www.fastcompany.com

Let me try to understand that you're implying... You're saying that Turkey did a favor for Trump (citation?) pre-2016, so that in 2019, Trump pulls some military staff out of Syria, just in case Trump wins the election?

 

[Mikkel]

Hmmmn, many here present real facts, a baseline of binary data/information that can assist folks in having either a clearer picture or help them in coming to their own decisions.

Then there a few others, when presented with real facts and situations, pivot to a cache of talking points and pithy platitudes a basic cornucopia of conflation and deflection — huge difference. Imagine if this same folks utilized such lazy and putative ways in their medical practice—-scary huh?

It's unreal, I don't know if medgator is an actual person, or just an AI robot with no logical argument.

 

[BoolaHI]

It's unreal, I don't know if medgator is an actual person, or just an AI robot with no logical argument.

Obviously, he was not the person/s I was making reference to....

 

[medgator]

It's unreal, I don't know if medgator is an actual person, or just an AI robot with no logical argument.

Trump uses the defense mechanism of projection far better than you do

 

[medgator]

Let me try to understand that you're implying... You're saying that Turkey did a favor for Trump (citation?) pre-2016, so that in 2019, Trump pulls some military staff out of Syria, just in case Trump wins the election?

Not saying that all. Maybe you should stick to events that occurred this month. Hard to separate the conspiracy theories from the facts I know, but try

 

[PainDrain]

In other news and a move that makes absolutely no sense, unless of course the goal is to aide Russia.

Trump administration expected to announce exit from 'Open Skies' treaty

The Trump administration is expected to soon announce that it plans to exit the "Open Skies" treaty, a US official tells CNN, a move that has already drawn condemnation from Democrats in Congress.

www-m.cnn.com

 

[vector2]

Let me try to understand that you're implying... You're saying that Turkey did a favor for Trump (citation?) pre-2016, so that in 2019, Trump pulls some military staff out of Syria, just in case Trump wins the election?

According to Trump’s financial disclosure forms, the Trump business relating to the licensing of the Trump name to the Trump Towers Istanbul property in Turkey earned him between $1 million and $5 million in royalties in 2015 and 2016. The royalties decreased, according to his disclosures, to between $100,001 to $1 million for 2017 and 2018.

Redirect Notice

www.google.com

Trump himself said that this is a conflict for him in his interview with Bannon in 2015 , and you're a naive fool if you don't think Erdogan hasn't come calling for the favor to be returned.

 

[AMEHigh]

Obama asked for a foreign leader's help (Putin) to let off the United States in an election year to help Obama's reelection chances. In exchange, Obama did not interfere in Russia's invasion of Crimea, which shocked the world. Post-Soviet Russia invades and annexes territory from another country, and Obama doesn't care.

Hillary Clinton and the DNC paid FusionGPS, which subcontracted Michael Steele, a former foreign agent, to use his Russian intelligence sources to manufacture dirt on Trump for election gain.

The Obama administration weaponized the IRS to target tea-party conservatives to affect their impact in election years.

The Obama DOJ used foreign nationals, like Mifsud, to entrap Americans, and use that against Trump in an election.

I’m not even going to address the Hillary Clinton part because she was never president.

But let’s just say that Obama did do something that would be an impeachable offense, how in the world does it make it ok for Trump to as well???

You might not like Obama’s policies, but come on now, his track record and moral character is pretty high. His biggest scandal was wearing a tan suit. He has nothing to do with Trump.

The fact that people keep saying “Well Hillary...." and "Well Obama...." is such a 2nd grade argument. We need to protect our democracy and drain the swamp if this is such a vast problem that has spanned over multiple presidencies and there’s no better time than now.

 

[Mikkel]

According to Trump’s financial disclosure forms, the Trump business relating to the licensing of the Trump name to the Trump Towers Istanbul property in Turkey earned him between $1 million and $5 million in royalties in 2015 and 2016. The royalties decreased, according to his disclosures, to between $100,001 to $1 million for 2017 and 2018.

Redirect Notice

www.google.com

Trump himself said that this is a conflict for him in his interview with Bannon in 2015 , and you're a naive fool if you don't think Erdogan hasn't come calling for the favor to be returned.

So what's the favor Turkey did for Trump in 2012? Was Trump running for office back then? What did Trump promise Turkey in 2012?

Trump makes money on real estate. News at 11.



Was Clinton running the Clinton foundation as a bribery slush fund? Why did it basically shut down once she lost the election?

 

[Mikkel]

His biggest scandal was wearing a tan suit. He has nothing to do with Trump.

IRS scandal which targeted conservatives.

Eric Holder's Fast & Furious scandal.

FISA abuse scandal.

Crimea.

Iran cash pallets which were used to fund terrorist activity throughout the middle East.

Benghazi 9/11 attacks (blame it on protests of a movie nobody has watched instead of the coordinated, planned 9/11 anniversary terrorist attack).

Libya (in general).

Syria.

ISIS.

 

[Mikkel]

The fact that people keep saying “Well Hillary...." and "Well Obama...." is such a 2nd grade argument. We need to protect our democracy and drain the swamp if this is such a vast problem that has spanned over multiple presidencies and there’s no better time than now.

It's not 2nd grade, it's trying to arrive at a moral standard that can be applied to people regardless of political party.

 

[Mikkel]

I’m not even going to address the Hillary Clinton part because she was never president.

If she won, we would have never learned about the FISA court abuses, and weaponization of the CIA and FBI against Obama's political opponent.

If she won, should she have been removed from office because of the crimes she committed?

 

[BoolaHI]

If she won, we would have never learned about the FISA court abuses, and weaponization of the CIA and FBI against Obama's political opponent.

If she won, should she have been removed from office because of the crimes she committed?

You make a top shelf, almost a classic case study, on the utilization of the devils trifecta: deflection, conflation and the ubiquitous and un-encumbered usage of whataboutism (which is the inane presentation of almost any fictional hypothetical that pivots from the actual and inherent topic) Kudos, well-done—really quite impressive in its application!

 

[vector2]

So what's the favor Turkey did for Trump in 2012? Was Trump running for office back then? What did Trump promise Turkey in 2012?

Trump makes money on real estate. News at 11.



Was Clinton running the Clinton foundation as a bribery slush fund? Why did it basically shut down once she lost the election?

Erdogan allowing Trump to put his name on the building of one of Erdogans former antagonists is the first favor. Here is the second in bold, where Erdogan was about to take his name off the building and remove his royalties when Trump revealed his bigotry against Muslims, but Trump fell into line with the strongman as usual.

----
“I have a little conflict of interest ’cause I have a major, major building in Istanbul,” Trump told Bannon during a Breitbart radio show. “It’s a tremendously successful job. It’s called Trump Towers—two towers, instead of one, not the usual one, it’s two.”

Those Trump Towers are a pair of glass buildings in Istanbul that have borne Trump’s name since 2012. Trump doesn’t own the buildings—the situation might be less complicated if he did. Instead, Trump licenses his brand to the building’s actual owner, Turkish business magnate Aydin Dogan, who has been described as the single largest payer of taxes in Turkey. He’s a one-time antagonist of Erdogan who is now in step with the strongman.

The conflict of interest and the way it could affect Trump’s position on important issues—or at least the perception of how it could affect his position—quickly became obvious after Trump made this comment. In June 2016, after Trump said he supported a ban on immigration by people from countries he said were associated with Islamic terrorism—he called them “terror countries”—Erdogan objected, and so did Dogan, and both threatened to remove Trump’s name from the buildings.

That’s no small threat—according to personal financial disclosures filed by Trump, since he launched his bid for the presidency, he has earned somewhere between $3.2 million and $17 million in royalties from the deal. (The amounts are given in ranges; the precise figures are unclear.)

Less than a month after the threat to remove his name was made, Trump very publicly voiced support for Erdogan when the Turkish leader faced a coup attempt. And his closeness with Erdogan has continued, even over the objections of some of Trump’s most reliable supporters."
-----

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

In other news and a move that makes absolutely no sense, unless of course the goal is to aide Russia.

Trump administration expected to announce exit from 'Open Skies' treaty

The Trump administration is expected to soon announce that it plans to exit the "Open Skies" treaty, a US official tells CNN, a move that has already drawn condemnation from Democrats in Congress.

www-m.cnn.com

What's to stop the other 32 countries for doing flights over Russia and sharing the images with us?

I honestly don't know enough about all this to form an opinion one way or another so I'm just trying to figure all of this out.

If Russia is still abiding by the treaty do they really gain much by our departure? Don't we also have very good satellites such that we don't use aerial "spy planes" much anymore?

Admittedly I don't see a plus for us in withdrawing, but I'm not sure I see a big plus for Russia either.

 

[d9sccr]

Alternatively, much of what Trump is doing in the Middle East echoes all his prior talks about being more isolationist. I sincerely doubt any of us know enough about all the intricacies in the Middle East to intelligently argue this. It does echo Obama pulling out of Syria, leaving a vacuum for ISIL/ISIS to fill, but oddly enough, I don't see a thread about that--maybe I missed it. The mainstream media also had nothing to say about it, at least not to this extent. It seems wrong to me and concerning we're going to end up with another terrorist cell by pulling out and the potential release of a bunch of militants. Regardless, the constant hypocrisy on both sides is growing rather tiresome.

 

[Mikkel]

You make a top shelf, almost a classic case study, on the utilization of the devils trifecta: deflection, conflation and the ubiquitous and un-encumbered usage of whataboutism (which is the inane presentation of almost any fictional hypothetical that pivots from the actual and inherent topic) Kudos, well-done—really quite impressive in its application!

You could have responded intelligently by saying whether you think Hillary would have been held to the same standard by Democrats that Democrats now have for Trump.

I'll answer for you: you think she shouldn't be prosecuted because you think she shouldn't be based on her politics.

 

[Mikkel]

Alternatively, much of what Trump is doing in the Middle East echoes all his prior talks about being more isolationist. I sincerely doubt any of us know enough about all the intricacies in the Middle East to intelligently argue this. It does echo Obama pulling out of Syria, leaving a vacuum for ISIL/ISIS to fill, but oddly enough, I don't see a thread about that--maybe I missed it. The mainstream media also had nothing to say about it, at least not to this extent. It seems wrong to me and concerning we're going to end up with another terrorist cell by pulling out and the potential release of a bunch of militants. Regardless, the constant hypocrisy on both sides is growing rather tiresome.

Did Obama pull out of Syria? Or was it that he pulled out of Iraq? Important distinction, since we weren't really in Syria in the first place.

Obama also had a red line that he let Assad cross, and he did nothing about it. Power vacuum, Obama not doing anything, ISIS expanded.

 

[Mikkel]

Erdogan allowing Trump to put his name on the building of one of Erdogans former antagonists is the first favor. Here is the second in bold, where Erdogan was about to take his name off the building and remove his royalties when Trump revealed his bigotry against Muslims, but Trump fell into line with the strongman as usual.

----
“I have a little conflict of interest ’cause I have a major, major building in Istanbul,” Trump told Bannon during a Breitbart radio show. “It’s a tremendously successful job. It’s called Trump Towers—two towers, instead of one, not the usual one, it’s two.”

Those Trump Towers are a pair of glass buildings in Istanbul that have borne Trump’s name since 2012. Trump doesn’t own the buildings—the situation might be less complicated if he did. Instead, Trump licenses his brand to the building’s actual owner, Turkish business magnate Aydin Dogan, who has been described as the single largest payer of taxes in Turkey. He’s a one-time antagonist of Erdogan who is now in step with the strongman.

The conflict of interest and the way it could affect Trump’s position on important issues—or at least the perception of how it could affect his position—quickly became obvious after Trump made this comment. In June 2016, after Trump said he supported a ban on immigration by people from countries he said were associated with Islamic terrorism—he called them “terror countries”—Erdogan objected, and so did Dogan, and both threatened to remove Trump’s name from the buildings.

That’s no small threat—according to personal financial disclosures filed by Trump, since he launched his bid for the presidency, he has earned somewhere between $3.2 million and $17 million in royalties from the deal. (The amounts are given in ranges; the precise figures are unclear.)

Less than a month after the threat to remove his name was made, Trump very publicly voiced support for Erdogan when the Turkish leader faced a coup attempt. And his closeness with Erdogan has continued, even over the objections of some of Trump’s most reliable supporters."
-----

Trump became president in 2017.

When was the Turkey deal?



And you're saying Trump got rid of his strict policy towards countries that did not have strong enough policies against Islamic extremism because Turkey threatened removing Trump's name from a building?

Trump's policy didn't even affect Turkey and nothing changed, Erdogan was just posturing for his people.

Trump's policy didn't change, and Trump's name remained.

 

[electropartyogram]

Alternatively, much of what Trump is doing in the Middle East echoes all his prior talks about being more isolationist. I sincerely doubt any of us know enough about all the intricacies in the Middle East to intelligently argue this. It does echo Obama pulling out of Syria, leaving a vacuum for ISIL/ISIS to fill, but oddly enough, I don't see a thread about that--maybe I missed it. The mainstream media also had nothing to say about it, at least not to this extent. It seems wrong to me and concerning we're going to end up with another terrorist cell by pulling out and the potential release of a bunch of militants. Regardless, the constant hypocrisy on both sides is growing rather tiresome.

While it may appear to echo Obama moving troops out of Syria, it is a different situation now, and since ISIS is contained, it is more about geopolitics and surrounding countries seeking to claim the region.

It is difficult, in that while the Kurds are our "allies", it is important to remember that Turkey is a member of NATO, and we have obligations to them. It is of note that Turkey is particularly secular when compared to the Kurds, and there has always been problems with that. Turkey has also taken in more refugees from Syria. Turkey has not always been our favorite, recently purchasing anti-aircraft technology from Russia. However, since the Kurds are really fighting to have an autonomous and independent nation, one that is proposed to have some Turkish territory (given the concentration of Kurds in the region), it puts the U.S. in a tight spot, since fully supporting the Kurds in this technically goes against Turkey. Despite what you might think about Turkey, they are an ally, more so than the Kurds were. Remember Operation Cyclone? The U.S. armed the mujahideen in Afganistan in the 80s. Similar in my opinion, since we have been funding Kurdish resistance against the Syrian state and helped them control ISIS. Ultimately, we technically do not have obligations to them.

Do I think President Trump made a good move? Yes, I do. The isolationist stance is okay, it isn't necessarily the best, but we have larger geopolitical obligations than just the Kurds. Hopefully, Turkey can take the high ground here (doubt). As long as Turkey can respect the work and effort of the Kurds, and work with the U.S. indirectly (little to no U.S. troops) then potentially a solution can be made later. For now, I believe isolationism and letting that area do its thing is the best, considering what history has shown us when the U.S. gets involved with Middle Eastern affairs.

 

[AMEHigh]

IRS scandal which targeted conservatives.

Eric Holder's Fast & Furious scandal.

FISA abuse scandal.

Crimea.

Iran cash pallets which were used to fund terrorist activity throughout the middle East.

Benghazi 9/11 attacks (blame it on protests of a movie nobody has watched instead of the coordinated, planned 9/11 anniversary terrorist attack).

Libya (in general).

Syria.

ISIS.

I’m not understanding. Which of those are impeachable offenses? Like I said above you can disagree with someone’s policies but that doesn’t automatically mean they have committed an impeachable offense or a crime. I certainly don’t agree with EVERYTHING Obama did, but I’m not seeing a crime. And again, what does that have to do with Trump? I certainly don’t agree with everything George Bush did during his presidency, yet everytime someone criticizes Obama my (1st or 2nd or 3rd) response isn’t "what about Bush?!?"

Our democracy is at risk, so why are people ok ignoring that? How does Trump have so many people so brain-washed that he could shoot someone on 5th Ave and no one would care? Drain the swamp.

I know I’m wasting my breath.

 

[vector2]

Trump became president in 2017.

When was the Turkey deal?.

It's apparently insurmoubtably difficult for you to get it through your thick skull that the years these events occurred don't matter because Trump has not financially separated himself from his business as he continues to be president to this day. If he dissolved his partnership in Trump Org in 2017, only then would you have a point about the original deal taking place on 2012.

Let me phrase it so someone with a junior high level education can understand: Trump is still making money from Turkey while simultaneously dictating US foreign policy towards Turkey. This is a conflict of interest and the reason the Emoluments clause in the Constitution exists.

 

[BoolaHI]

It's apparently insurmoubtably difficult for you to get it through your thick skull that the years these events occurred don't matter because Trump has not financially separated himself from his business as he continues to be president to this day. If he dissolved his partnership in Trump Org in 2017, only then would you have a point about the original deal taking place on 2012.

Let me phrase it so someone with a junior high level education can understand: Trump is still making money from Turkey while simultaneously dictating US foreign policy towards Turkey. This is a conflict of interest and the reason the Emoluments clause in the Constitution exists.

And while folks, with good reason, jump on Hunter Biden, a more profound and contemporary example of leveraging the White House for personal gain is Jared Kushner. In short, it’s no secret he was shopping around for large loans to float his family business and to no avail prior to arriving in the West Wing. But, since then, and even utilizing the White House as a venue to conduct his personal business, he secured over a half-billion dollars from Citigroup and Apollo Global Mgmt. (a PE firm).....hmmmmn.

 

[BLADEMDA]

About your taxes under WARREN, the average Anesthesiologist will
Likely pay $15,000-$20,000 more annually in taxes vs the current tax code if all of Warren’s proposals become law.

That’s not chump change and I can easily live with another 4 years of the idiot in the oval vs the socialist stealing an additional $20,000 from me each year. The govt is almost always reckless with the way it spends taxpayer money.

For those that don’t mind paying an extra $20k per year on an average MGMA salary I say more power to you.

 

[Mikkel]

It's apparently insurmoubtably difficult for you to get it through your thick skull that the years these events occurred don't matter because Trump has not financially separated himself from his business as he continues to be president to this day. If he dissolved his partnership in Trump Org in 2017, only then would you have a point about the original deal taking place on 2012.

Let me phrase it so someone with a junior high level education can understand: Trump is still making money from Turkey while simultaneously dictating US foreign policy towards Turkey. This is a conflict of interest and the reason the Emoluments clause in the Constitution exists.

Quid pro quo doesn't exist if there's no favor to Trump, and no favor to Turkey.

If you want to stretch "emoluments" to any revenue your business generates internationally, you're on shaky ground, especially if you're trying to equate your stretched definition with a quid pro quo.

 

[GaseousClay]

About your taxes under WARREN, the average Anesthesiologist will
Likely pay $15,000-$20,000 more annually in taxes vs the current tax code if all of Warren’s proposals become law.

That’s not chump change and I can easily live with another 4 years of the idiot in the oval vs the socialist stealing an additional $20,000 from me each year. The govt is almost always reckless with the way it spends taxpayer money.

For those that don’t mind paying an extra $20k per year on an average MGMA salary I say more power to you.

100% this. Tax money is completely frivolously spent on nonsense and more govt workers. California is the prime example where exorbitant taxes show nothing but sh** roads, terrible homeless crisis, insane gas prices/car registration fees, terrible public schools and the list goes on... yet lets keep taxing and demonizing hardworking people and create class warfare to generate votes.

 

[vector2]

Quid pro quo doesn't exist if there's no favor to Trump, and no favor to Turkey.

If you want to stretch "emoluments" to any revenue your business generates internationally, you're on shaky ground, especially if you're trying to equate your stretched definition with a quid pro quo.

Dude, who do you think your audience is here? You're not fooling anyone with whatever obfuscating bs nonsense you're trying to spin. Everyone on this forum, possibly even you, understands why the Stark Law exists. We all understand why getting a $100,000 honorarium from Pacira and then only stocking and using exparel when plain marcaine would suffice is unethical. We all understand why earning (a lot of) money from a foreign country while having to make decisions that affect foreign policy is wrong. There is a reason Rex Tillerson separated himself from Exxon before becoming Sec of State. You know why he did this, but you purposefully keep your head buried in the sand when it comes to Trump. Ultimately, we all understand that conflicts of interest become more severe as one's position of power rises, and there is no greater position than President of the United States.

I live in a deep red state and the only people on your level of fervent Trumpism are low information, poorly educated, lower middle class people who buy into the ultranationalist and faux economic populist rhetoric. Heck, even blade, a true conservative if I've ever seen one, knows Trump is a corrupt, amoral hack. He just doesnt care because he doesnt want his marginal rate to go from 35 to 40.

 

[d9sccr]

100% this. Tax money is completely frivolously spent on nonsense and more govt workers. California is the prime example where exorbitant taxes show nothing but sh** roads, terrible homeless crisis, insane gas prices/car registration fees, terrible public schools and the list goes on... yet lets keep taxing and demonizing hardworking people and create class warfare to generate votes.

Completely agree with this. I also laughed at the poster who said he'd gladly take the 39% bracket to reduce the national debt--like it's a good reason to vote Democrat. Assuming that they'd stop at 39%, which I find very doubtful. Without exception, every single candidate is advocating for a giant increase in government size and scope. These programs aren't going to pay for themselves. Sure, they'll probably take austerity measures when it comes to the military, but that's not going to be enough to pay down debt AND these huge social programs. For us to actually pay back our debt, it's probably going to take the entire thing crashing down before Americans will accept austerity measures pertaining to Medicare and Social Security specifically...maybe it's a good thing if Warren wins and expedites that, I'd like for my kids not have to inherit this mess

 

[medgator]

I’m not understanding. Which of those are impeachable offenses? Like I said above you can disagree with someone’s policies but that doesn’t automatically mean they have committed an impeachable offense or a crime. I certainly don’t agree with EVERYTHING Obama did, but I’m not seeing a crime. And again, what does that have to do with Trump? I certainly don’t agree with everything George Bush did during his presidency, yet everytime someone criticizes Obama my (1st or 2nd or 3rd) response isn’t "what about Bush?!?"

Our democracy is at risk, so why are people ok ignoring that? How does Trump have so many people so brain-washed that he could shoot someone on 5th Ave and no one would care? Drain the swamp.

I know I’m wasting my breath.

Sounds like Trump may be starting to put more cracks in his base

"Thousands of lives hang in the balance": Evangelical leaders break with Trump over Syria

Radio host Erick Erickson even went so far as to suggest impeachment.

www.axios.com

 

[pgg]

That’s not chump change and I can easily live with another 4 years of the idiot in the oval vs the socialist stealing an additional $20,000 from me each year.

I think $20K is chump change in the context of the value of one president vs another, when you consider that the maximum legal contribution to a political candidate is $5600 per election ($2800 for the primary and $2800 for the general election), with room to donate more to PACs and political parties and other soft advocates.

 

[medgator]

About your taxes under WARREN, the average Anesthesiologist will
Likely pay $15,000-$20,000 more annually in taxes vs the current tax code if all of Warren’s proposals become law.

That’s not chump change and I can easily live with another 4 years of the idiot in the oval vs the socialist stealing an additional $20,000 from me each year. The govt is almost always reckless with the way it spends taxpayer money.

For those that don’t mind paying an extra $20k per year on an average MGMA salary I say more power to you.

You prefer trillion dollar annual deficits the next decade? Trump isn't cutting spending. He actually signed one of the biggest spending bills in history last year.

Sorry but I'm not handing future generations Republican hypocrisy and trillions in debt so corporations can have a lower rate rate than the bottom 50%. Your tax cut is pennies compared to what the 0.1% is getting.

If Republicans want to stop being hypocrites, they can tell their voters how much they need to cut military and Medicare spending to match the tax cuts which are permanent only for corporations.

 

[medgator]

Completely agree with this. I also laughed at the poster who said he'd gladly take the 39% bracket to reduce the national debt--like it's a good reason to vote Democrat. Assuming that they'd stop at 39%, which I find very doubtful. Without exception, every single candidate is advocating for a giant increase in government size and scope. These programs aren't going to pay for themselves. Sure, they'll probably take austerity measures when it comes to the military, but that's not going to be enough to pay down debt AND these huge social programs. For us to actually pay back our debt, it's probably going to take the entire thing crashing down before Americans will accept austerity measures pertaining to Medicare and Social Security specifically...maybe it's a good thing if Warren wins and expedites that, I'd like for my kids not have to inherit this mess

Except dems have been more fiscally conservative than Republicans. Deficit went down under Obama, and let's not even talk about slick Willy

 

[pgg]

Except dems have been more fiscally conservative than Republicans. Deficit went down under Obama, and let's not even talk about slick Willy

That's been true for six consecutive presidents (Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama, Trump) but like the stock market, past performance is no guarantee of future results. Wannabe presidents Warren or Sanders sure seem enthusiastic about setting some new deficit records.

Bill Clinton and Barack Obama aren't running for president this year. Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders are.

 

[medgator]

That's been true for six consecutive presidents (Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama, Trump) but like the stock market, past performance is no guarantee of future results. Wannabe presidents Warren or Sanders sure seem enthusiastic about setting some new deficit records.

View attachment 282865

Well the alternative is a party who cuts taxes as rabidly, but then is happy to spend as much as liberals, just on a different type of welfare/pork.

Why the $1.45 Trillion F-35 Still Can’t Get Off the Ground

Is there any hope of salvaging something from this 17-year nightmare?

www.theamericanconservative.com

Unsurprisingly, tax and spend isn't as bad for the deficit/debt as cut taxes and spend

 

[BoolaHI]

That's been true for six consecutive presidents (Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama, Trump) but like the stock market, past performance is no guarantee of future results. Wannabe presidents Warren or Sanders sure seem enthusiastic about setting some new deficit records.

Bill Clinton and Barack Obama aren't running for president this year. Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders are.

View attachment 282865

Hmmm, along the lines of who is actually running for President and what have they promoted as central and primacy of their campaign, I would be remised to not introduce some actual facts about the current occupant of the White House.

During the 2016 campaign, President Donald Trump made an aggressive promise on federal finances: He would eliminate the budget deficit within eight years. Now, three years into his presidency, the deficit is 68 percent higher than when he started.

Trump inherited a deficit of $585 billion when he took office in January 2017. That was 58 percent lower than the $1.4 trillion former President Barack Obama inherited in 2009 following the financial crisis, a number his administration slashed over two terms.

According to the latest Congressional Budget Office data released on Monday, the full-year deficit for 2019 is estimated to come in at $984 billion, just shy of the $1 trillion that many analysts were expecting. In 2018 the figure was $779 billion and in 2017 it was $665 billion.

So, I wouldn’t place too much emphasis on the hyperbole of the campaign trail...as it seems a lot of folks like to speak out of both sides of their business end.

 

[DarkHorizon]

Lol, I’m usually amazed by Trump supporters’ rationality. Der Fuhrer can do no wrong. Their usual retort is “so what”. I’m far from a bleeding heart liberal, but It appears to me that Trump supporters have an agenda. I’d respect them more if they were just upfront about it instead of going to outlandish lengths to defend the man, or their usual “so what”. I can expect that from uneducated fraction that supports him, but It baffles me when a physician does it.

 

[vector2]

Lol, I’m usually amazed by Trump supporters’ rationality. Der Fuhrer can do no wrong. Their usual retort is “so what”. I’m far from a bleeding heart liberal, but It appears to me that Trump supporters have an agenda. I’d respect them more if they were just upfront about it instead of going to outlandish lengths to defend the man, or their usual “so what”.

 

[AMEHigh]

About your taxes under WARREN, the average Anesthesiologist will
Likely pay $15,000-$20,000 more annually in taxes vs the current tax code if all of Warren’s proposals become law.

That’s not chump change and I can easily live with another 4 years of the idiot in the oval vs the socialist stealing an additional $20,000 from me each year. The govt is almost always reckless with the way it spends taxpayer money.

For those that don’t mind paying an extra $20k per year on an average MGMA salary I say more power to you.

I think that’s a point of privilege. Maybe you can easily live, but some of us can’t. For some people and many in specific categories of people (women, lgbtq, undocumented persons, etc), this administrations policies and attempted policies are ruining lives physically and emotionally. For many people it’s not about the money, it’s about being able to live. And I’m not even going to get in to the topic of climate change...which of course is going to affect poor people before it affects everyone else, but at the end of the day money isn’t going to save your life! It is definitely hard for me to understand how people who are physicians who I presume follow evidence based medicine and believe in science are deniers of climate change and the need to do something about it.

 

[DarkHorizon]

I think that’s a point of privilege. Maybe you can easily live, but some of us can’t. For some people and many in specific categories of people (women, lgbtq, undocumented persons, etc), this administrations policies and attempted policies are ruining lives physically and emotionally. For many people it’s not about the money, it’s about being able to live. And I’m not even going to get in to the topic of climate change...which of course is going to affect poor people before it affects everyone else, but at the end of the day money isn’t going to save your life! It is definitely hard for me to understand how people who are physicians who I presume follow evidence based medicine and believe in science are deniers of climate change and the need to do something about it.

At least I respect him for being upfront about his agenda than usual mental gymnastics by trump supporters attempting to defend the indefensible.

 

[radsisrad]

There does not exist a perfect president.

Put someone reasonable up against Trump, and I might vote for that candidate. Until then, he remains the best on foreign policy, immigration, and national unity (seeing as he seems to be the one candidate not constantly instigating hatred toward any particular group of Americans).

 

[BoolaHI]

There does not exist a perfect president.

Put someone reasonable up against Trump, and I might vote for that candidate. Until then, he remains the best on foreign policy, immigration, and national unity (seeing as he seems to be the one candidate not constantly instigating hatred toward any particular group of Americans).

As a person of color, I don’t think you are qualified to speak on anything but yourself, as his rhetoric and actions speak volumes to his lifelong attitudes toward communities of color....

 

[radsisrad]

As a person of color, I don’t think you are qualified to speak on anything but yourself, as his rhetoric and actions speak volumes to his lifelong attitudes toward communities of color....

Who the hell do you think you are to police other people's perspectives?

I think the real schism has come out here, and I'm glad that BoolaHI has finally expressed his views openly.

 

[BoolaHI]

Who the hell do you think you are to police other people's perspectives?

Homie, you don’t know me, but spare me the false internet bravado as I know you wouldn’t dare talk to me in such tones in person. That said, I’m not policing anyone but to say, when you talk about national unity, speak about yourself and community, not the rest of us who have to suffer through an overt racist.