Will Trump win again???

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Yes. And you'll probably never see it

Well I’m asking for clarity here. I’m not looking to argue. I feel like anytime people try to discuss trump, one side just says he’s awful and racist and sexist. But I don’t feel like I’ve heard any great arguments to back it up. I voted for him, but I agree that he’s rude and non-PC and I don’t like how he acts a lot, but I don’t see any substantive things that he’s done that are so wrong. So Im trying to understand if people dislike him so much cause they are so put off by his language and general demeanor, or if they think there is actual policies that they find super egregious.

You don’t need to start getting snarky with me, I’m trying to have an honest discussion and I’m open to being persuaded.


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Well I’m asking for clarity here. I’m not looking to argue. I feel like anytime people try to discuss trump, one side just says he’s awful and racist and sexist. But I don’t feel like I’ve heard any great arguments to back it up. I voted for him, but I agree that he’s rude and non-PC and I don’t like how he acts a lot, but I don’t see any substantive things that he’s done that are so wrong. So Im trying to understand if people dislike him so much cause they are so put off by his language and general demeanor, or if they think there is actual policies that they find super egregious.

You don’t need to start getting snarky with me, I’m trying to have an honest discussion and I’m open to being persuaded.


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He's literally on tape saying he grabs women by the p*ssy without consent. He's publicly called various women pigs and dogs. There's various reports that when he was running Miss Universe he'd skeeve out the ladies by going into their dressing room unannounced. He's been accused by two dozen women of sexual harassment and/or assault, and his currently incarcerated lawyer paid off a pornstar and a playmate to keep extramarital affairs quiet. He's appeared in 3 Playboy videos. Let's not forget he implied Megyn Kelly was on her period when she asked him a tough debate question.

LOL, but of course, you've never heard a convincing argument that he's sexist.

Give it a rest, man- we all know your mind is made up and you're just doing something called "concern trolling"
 
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He's literally on tape saying he grabs women by the p*ssy without consent. He's publicly called various women pigs and dogs. There's various reports that when he was running Miss Universe he'd skeeve out the ladies by going into their dressing room unannounced. He's been accused by two dozen women of sexual harassment and/or assault, and his currently incarcerated lawyer paid off a pornstar and a playmate to keep extramarital affairs quiet. He's appeared in 3 Playboy videos. Let's not forget he implied Megyn Kelly was on her period when she asked him a tough debate question.

LOL, but of course, you've never heard a convincing argument that he's sexist.

Give it a rest, man- we all know your mind is made up and you're just doing something called "concern trolling"


Right?

And
He's literally on tape saying he grabs women by the p*ssy without consent. He's publicly called various women pigs and dogs. There's various reports that when he was running Miss Universe he'd skeeve out the ladies by going into their dressing room unannounced. He's been accused by two dozen women of sexual harassment and/or assault, and his currently incarcerated lawyer paid off a pornstar and a playmate to keep extramarital affairs quiet. He's appeared in 3 Playboy videos. Let's not forget he implied Megyn Kelly was on her period when she asked him a tough debate question.

LOL, but of course, you've never heard a convincing argument that he's sexist.

Give it a rest, man- we all know your mind is made up and you're just doing something called "concern trolling"


Right?!

And when there’s literally a KKK March and one says "there’s fine people on both sides” how is that not racist?!

The KKK aren’t fine upstanding non-racist citizens, they are proud of their racism and anti-semitism!
 
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He's literally on tape saying he grabs women by the p*ssy without consent. He's publicly called various women pigs and dogs. There's various reports that when he was running Miss Universe he'd skeeve out the ladies by going into their dressing room unannounced. He's been accused by two dozen women of sexual harassment and/or assault, and his currently incarcerated lawyer paid off a pornstar and a playmate to keep extramarital affairs quiet. He's appeared in 3 Playboy videos. Let's not forget he implied Megyn Kelly was on her period when she asked him a tough debate question.

LOL, but of course, you've never heard a convincing argument that he's sexist.

Give it a rest, man- we all know your mind is made up and you're just doing something called "concern trolling"

I’m aware of the things you mentioned, and I disagree with all of them. They are all immoral or at very best I’ll advised statements, for sure. I would never say or do any of those things that he’s done. So I we agree that he’s chauvinistic, rude, crude, etc. Fine. None of those things you mentioned are policies. If you never heard those stories, you would know any different based on how he’s running the country. Does the fact that he’s had multiple wives impact how he governs?

Look, I don’t like him as a person, but I would much rather vote for a crude jerk that makes policy decisions I agree with, as opposed to a nice, polite, PC person who makes policies. I’m not voting for someone to be my friend, I’m voting for someone to run the country.

So I’ll say again, what POLICIES has he made that are hurtful to women, minorities, etc. What has made a bad impact on society?

If you wanna argue that his tone is decisive, I won’t disagree too much, but I’d counter that every thing he’s said is blown up and destroyed by the media and both sides contribute to the country being polarized.


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Right?

And



Right?!

And when there’s literally a KKK March and one says "there’s fine people on both sides” how is that not racist?!

The KKK aren’t fine upstanding non-racist citizens, they are proud of their racism and anti-semitism!

Perfect example, people repeat nonsense like this as if it’s fact. He never said the white nationalist are fine people. He condemned the white nationalists, but said there were also good people at that protest on both sides. It’s false that he said white nationalists were good too, but the media just makes headlines “trumps says there are good people on both sides at a rally with white nationalists!!!” And then people never investigate and just say he’s racist.

Read for yourself:


It’s not racist cause it’s not true. Simple as that.


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He's literally on tape saying he grabs women by the p*ssy without consent. He's publicly called various women pigs and dogs. There's various reports that when he was running Miss Universe he'd skeeve out the ladies by going into their dressing room unannounced. He's been accused by two dozen women of sexual harassment and/or assault, and his currently incarcerated lawyer paid off a pornstar and a playmate to keep extramarital affairs quiet. He's appeared in 3 Playboy videos. Let's not forget he implied Megyn Kelly was on her period when she asked him a tough debate question.

LOL, but of course, you've never heard a convincing argument that he's sexist.

Give it a rest, man- we all know your mind is made up and you're just doing something called "concern trolling"

So much stupidity in your post.

He was engaging in theoretical banter when he made the p**** remark - he didn't give any instances of his actually having done it.

He's called men some pretty nasty things, too. If anything, he treats men and women just about equally. He was pretty rude to Rand Paul right there on the debate stage; I disapprove, but Trump is a blunt instrument that comes with both perks and downsides.

"Various reports"... yeah, and there were "various reports" that 9/11 was an inside job and that Trump colluded with Russia. Yawn. Next.

"He's been accused of..." - accusations, especially against an uber-rich celebrity, mean nothing.

Ok, so he's appeared in Playmate videos... so you're telling us he's sleazy? Stop the presses!!

Nah, he didn't imply that she was on her period. Bleeding from the eyes is a reference to extreme anger or emotional distress. "Bleeding from her wherever" was almost certainly a case of his mouth running faster than his brain.

You have some of the coldest and most gullible political takes I've ever read.
 
Right?

And



Right?!

And when there’s literally a KKK March and one says "there’s fine people on both sides” how is that not racist?!

The KKK aren’t fine upstanding non-racist citizens, they are proud of their racism and anti-semitism!

Never happened.
 
Perfect example, people repeat nonsense like this as if it’s fact. He never said the white nationalist are fine people. He condemned the white nationalists, but said there were also good people at that protest on both sides. It’s false that he said white nationalists were good too, but the media just makes headlines “trumps says there are good people on both sides at a rally with white nationalists!!!” And then people never investigate and just say he’s racist.

Read for yourself:


It’s not racist cause it’s not true. Simple as that.


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As a self-identified emotions-prioritizing non-double-X-chromosome activist, your facts offend me. Point of privilege. I want a safe space from your hate.
 
Perfect example, people repeat nonsense like this as if it’s fact. He never said the white nationalist are fine people. He condemned the white nationalists, but said there were also good people at that protest on both sides. It’s false that he said white nationalists were good too, but the media just makes headlines “trumps says there are good people on both sides at a rally with white nationalists!!!” And then people never investigate and just say he’s racist.

Read for yourself:


It’s not racist cause it’s not true. Simple as that.


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You can't be racist, sexist, xenophobic, homophobic, bigoted, etc in a vacuum.

A sampling of policies:

September 19, 2019: The Department of Health and Human Services cancelled a plan to explicitly prohibit hospitals from discriminating against LGBTQ patients as a requirement of Medicare and Medicaid funds.


July 3, 2019: The Department of Housing and Urban Development removed requirements that applicants for homelessness funding maintain anti-discrimination policies and demonstrate efforts to serve LGBT people and their families, who are more likely to be homeless.

May 14, 2019: President Trump announced his opposition to the Equality Act (H.R. 5), the federal legislation that would confirm and strengthen civil rights protections for LGBTQ Americans and others.

On February 22, the Justice Department’s Civil Rights Division and the Department of Education’s Office for Civil Rights jointly rescinded Title IX guidance clarifying protections under the law for transgender students.

On February 27, the Department of Justice dropped the federal government’s longstanding position that a Texas voter ID law under legal challenge was intentionally racially discriminatory, despite having successfully advanced that argument in multiple federal courts. The district court subsequently rejected the position of the Sessions Justice Department and concluded the law was passed with discriminatory intent.

On March 6, Trump signed a revised executive order restricting travel to the United States by citizens of Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, and Yemen and drastically cutting back refugee admissions.

On April 13, Trump signed a resolution of disapproval under the Congressional Review Act, which overturned the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services’ final rule updating the regulations governing the Title X family planning program – a vital source of family planning and related preventive care for low-income, uninsured, and young people across the country.

On July 26, Trump declared in a series of tweets that he was barring transgender people from serving in the military. He followed through with a presidential memo on August 25, though the issue is still being challenged in the courts.

On August 29, the administration halted an EEOC rule that required large companies to disclose what they pay employees by sex, race, and ethnicity – a rule that was intended to remedy the unequal pay that remains rampant in the American workplace.

On November 20, the Trump administration announced it would terminate the Temporary Protected Status (TPS) designation in 18 months for approximately 59,000 Haitians living in the United States.

On January 18, the Department of Health and Human Services announced a proposed rule to allow health care providers to discriminate against patients, and within the department’s Office for Civil Rights, a new division – the Conscience and Religious Freedom Division – to address related claims.

January 23, 2019: The Department of Health & Human Services' Office of Civil Rights granted an exemption to adoption and foster care agencies in South Carolina, allowing religiously-affiliated services to discriminate against current and aspiring LGBTQ caregivers.

September 7, 2017: President Trump nominated Gregory G. Katsas to serve as a United States Circuit Judge of the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit. Katsas played a central role in helping Trump ban qualified transgender people serving in the miltary.

September 7, 2017: President Trump nominated Jeff Mateer to become a United States District Judge of the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Texas. Mateer called transgender children part of “Satan’s plan” and openly supported debunked and dangerous “conversion therapy.” Mateer’s nomination was eventually withdrawn.

Targeting Reproductive Rights: On October 6, 2017, the Department of Health and Human Services issued a regulation allowing employers and insurers to deny coverage for birth control, as long as they can cite religious reasons for doing so.

On February 26, the U.S. Department of Education proposed to delay implementation of a rule that enforces the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA). The rule implements the IDEA’s provisions regarding significant disproportionality in the identification, placement, and discipline of students with disabilities with regard to race and ethnicity.

On March 5, the Office for Civil Rights at the U.S. Department of Education released a new Case Processing Manual (CPM) that creates greater hurdles for people filing complaints and allows dismissal of civil rights complaints based on the number of times an individual has filed.

08.16.19 - The Trump Administration files a court brief to the U.S. Supreme Court, asking the nation's highest court to block transgender Americans from having nationwide workplace protections.

Since taking office, Trump has made it harder for black citizens to exercise their right to vote. The Justice Department switched its position in gerrymandering and voter-ID lawsuits, supporting defendant states against plaintiffs challenging laws. Trump has also subscribed to conspiracy theories about massive numbers of illegal votes, all in service of stricter voter laws that depress minority turnout.

Brought back the Global Gag Rule: One of Trump’s first actions as president reinstated and expanded the Global Gag Rule, which prevents recipients of U.S. foreign aid from offering any information, referrals, services, or advocacy regarding abortion care—even if they do so with separate funding sources. The Global Gag Rule will lead to more maternal deaths, more unintended pregnancies, and higher rates of unsafe abortion.

Seeks to stack the courts with anti-choice judges: Trump released a short list of anti-choice judges during the Supreme Court nomination process—including one who called Roe v. Wade an “abomination”—which signals that he intends to follow through on his campaign promise to stack the courts with anti-choice judges.

Attacks abortion rights: Trump ran on the promise to nominate a Supreme Court justice who would “automatically” overturn Roe v. Wade. Neil Gorsuch—his eventual nominee and now Supreme Court justice—has a history of arguing against Roe’s legal foundation, refused to state a clear position on Roe in his confirmation hearing, and admitted that he and Trump discussed abortion in his prenomination interview

Sidelined the White House Council on Women and Girls: President Barack Obama established the council to coordinate work across agencies on issues that affect women and girls, especially women of color and women with disabilities. During Trump’s first 100 days, the council has largely sat dormant with little specificity about what steps individual agencies are taking to address the diverse needs of women and girls.
 
Perfect example, people repeat nonsense like this as if it’s fact. He never said the white nationalist are fine people. He condemned the white nationalists, but said there were also good people at that protest on both sides. It’s false that he said white nationalists were good too, but the media just makes headlines “trumps says there are good people on both sides at a rally with white nationalists!!!” And then people never investigate and just say he’s racist.

Read for yourself:


It’s not racist cause it’s not true. Simple as that.


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And you want to ignore the other stuff. What about this?



Let's see what mental gymnastics you come up with next.... Hardcore Trump supporters are some of the biggest mental contortionists I've met
 
And you want to ignore the other stuff. What about this?



Let's see what mental gymnastics you come up with next.... Hardcore Trump supporters are some of the biggest mental contortionists I've met


So first off, do you agree that the KKK rally nonsense is just that, nonsense?

Your first article - trump says rapists and people bringing drugs are coming across the border, and also good people. Is that not true? What part do you disagree with? Don’t give me the spiel that he believes all illegal immigrants are criminals, cause he’s never said that and if you honestly think he believes ALL illegal immigrants are rapists/drug dealers, then I’ll stop discussing with you, cause there’s not much point.

Second article - trump puts a ban on 7 countries, including NK and Venezuela. All 7 were “countries of concern” as identified by Obama’s administration. It’s we known that bad players were/are infiltrating refugee groups around the world and our country was not/is not doing a good job filtering them out. So he put a ban on them coming in til changes in the screening process could be done. And the problem is????

I just paraphrased both articles for you. If that’s a mental backflip to you, so be it I guess.

Finally, why do you seem so hostile? We have no history and I just want to discuss civilly. Did I say something inflammatory to you?


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So first off, do you agree that the KKK rally nonsense is just that, nonsense?

Your first article - trump says rapists and people bringing drugs are coming across the border, and also good people. Is that not true? What part do you disagree with? Don’t give me the spiel that he believes all illegal immigrants are criminals, cause he’s never said that and if you honestly think he believes ALL illegal immigrants are rapists/drug dealers, then I’ll stop discussing with you, cause there’s not much point.

Second article - trump puts a ban on 7 countries, including NK and Venezuela. All 7 were “countries of concern” as identified by Obama’s administration. It’s we known that bad players were/are infiltrating refugee groups around the world and our country was not/is not doing a good job filtering them out. So he put a ban on them coming in til changes in the screening process could be done. And the problem is????

I just paraphrased both articles for you. If that’s a mental backflip to you, so be it I guess.

Finally, why do you seem so hostile? We have no history and I just want to discuss civilly. Did I say something inflammatory to you?


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He called for a complete shutdown of Muslims entering this country. And he lead with who he thought Mexico was sending as immigrants

Video evidence. Clear as mud to you Trump supporters though.

Trying to be a revisionist on Trump's words regarding Charlottesville won't change anything either

 
So first off, do you agree that the KKK rally nonsense is just that, nonsense?

Your first article - trump says rapists and people bringing drugs are coming across the border, and also good people. Is that not true? What part do you disagree with? Don’t give me the spiel that he believes all illegal immigrants are criminals, cause he’s never said that and if you honestly think he believes ALL illegal immigrants are rapists/drug dealers, then I’ll stop discussing with you, cause there’s not much point.

Second article - trump puts a ban on 7 countries, including NK and Venezuela. All 7 were “countries of concern” as identified by Obama’s administration. It’s we known that bad players were/are infiltrating refugee groups around the world and our country was not/is not doing a good job filtering them out. So he put a ban on them coming in til changes in the screening process could be done. And the problem is????

I just paraphrased both articles for you. If that’s a mental backflip to you, so be it I guess.

Finally, why do you seem so hostile? We have no history and I just want to discuss civilly. Did I say something inflammatory to you?


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As you asked, I posted a wide variety of policies above.
Those are just a sampling of policies from this president and administration that negatively affect women, lgbtq persons, and people over color as you asked.
One cannot be bigoted in a vacuum.

Steve Bannon was his chief strategist.
David Duke supports trump.
Why oh why would those 2 people specifically work with and support trump if his policies were fair and equal for all people?
It's not just about words, but it's about actions and policies, which have clearly been harmful to certain groups of people.
If your physical and/or mental health were suffering because of these policies or you were working with patients every day whose physical and/or mental health were suffering, then maybe you would understand and have some empathy.
 
As you asked, I posted a wide variety of policies above.
Those are just a sampling of policies from this president and administration that negatively affect women, lgbtq persons, and people over color as you asked.
One cannot be bigoted in a vacuum.

Steve Bannon was his chief strategist.
David Duke supports trump.
Why oh why would those 2 people specifically work with and support trump if his policies were fair and equal for all people?
It's not just about words, but it's about actions and policies, which have clearly been harmful to certain groups of people.
If your physical and/or mental health were suffering because of these policies or you were working with patients every day whose physical and/or mental health were suffering, then maybe you would understand and have some empathy.

Guilt by association arguments are basically a meme. 🙄

And there's nothing wrong with Steve Bannon. Well, nothing more wrong than there is with any flawed person (i.e., any person alive).

Seems like a good deal of the dreadful policies and decisions you listed above were, in fact, anti-discriminatory... just anti-discriminatory in ways you don't like. I serve dozens of patients daily, regardless of their sexual orientation. Someone who's LGBTQXYZ doesn't deserve more or fewer rights than any other citizen of this country.
 
As you asked, I posted a wide variety of policies above.
Those are just a sampling of policies from this president and administration that negatively affect women, lgbtq persons, and people over color as you asked.
One cannot be bigoted in a vacuum.

Steve Bannon was his chief strategist.
David Duke supports trump.
Why oh why would those 2 people specifically work with and support trump if his policies were fair and equal for all people?
It's not just about words, but it's about actions and policies, which have clearly been harmful to certain groups of people.
If your physical and/or mental health were suffering because of these policies or you were working with patients every day whose physical and/or mental health were suffering, then maybe you would understand and have some empathy.

I appreciated your post with actual policies. Lot to dig through... but thanks for providing what I was asking for with out the snark of some of the other people here [emoji57]


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So much stupidity in your post.

He was engaging in theoretical banter when he made the p**** remark - he didn't give any instances of his actually having done it.

He's called men some pretty nasty things, too. If anything, he treats men and women just about equally. He was pretty rude to Rand Paul right there on the debate stage; I disapprove, but Trump is a blunt instrument that comes with both perks and downsides.

"Various reports"... yeah, and there were "various reports" that 9/11 was an inside job and that Trump colluded with Russia. Yawn. Next.

"He's been accused of..." - accusations, especially against an uber-rich celebrity, mean nothing.

Ok, so he's appeared in Playmate videos... so you're telling us he's sleazy? Stop the presses!!

Nah, he didn't imply that she was on her period. Bleeding from the eyes is a reference to extreme anger or emotional distress. "Bleeding from her wherever" was almost certainly a case of his mouth running faster than his brain.

You have some of the coldest and most gullible political takes I've ever read.

It takes a shocking number of head-in-the-sand mental gymnast *****s for him to get away with the sheer amount sht he’s been able to pull off, so kudos to you for being one of his enablers. There are plenty of Uber rich celebrities who don’t have a single accuser let alone 20+plus accusers (e.g this woman who actually got grabbed by the p*ussy), nor any of the rest of his sleazy (aka SEXIST) history, so whenever you want to join reality instead of being a credulous fanboy lemme know.
 
I mean, seriously, it’s incredible the number of ppl here who think it’s ok that a man who likely doesn’t have the ethical bonafides to make it through the physician credentialing process at most of our respective hospitals is somehow fit to serve as president of the United States.
 
I mean, seriously, it’s incredible the number of ppl here who think it’s ok that a man who likely doesn’t have the ethical bonafides to make it through the physician credentialing process at most of our respective hospitals is somehow fit to serve as president of the United States.

Like I said before, I don’t deny that he’s crass and rude and just says whatever comes to mind. Doesn’t change the fact that I like his policies way more than the alternative. I don’t vote with emotions or based off which candidate is nicer to people, but with practicality in mind. Strong borders, American exceptionalism, no PC nonsense, less regulation vs open borders, ever expanding social programs, extreme climate based over-reactionary policies, abortion on demand, intersectionality/diversity above all else. Easy choice, easy to look past the tweeting, crude comments, etc. Doesn’t mean I approve of everything he says, far from it. But still and easy choice.


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. I serve dozens of patients daily, regardless of their sexual orientation. Someone who's LGBTQXYZ doesn't deserve more or fewer rights than any other citizen of this country.

The Trump administration feels differently



 
Like I said before, I don’t deny that he’s crass and rude and just says whatever comes to mind. Doesn’t change the fact that I like his policies way more than the alternative. I don’t vote with emotions or based off which candidate is nicer to people, but with practicality in mind. Strong borders, American exceptionalism, no PC nonsense, less regulation vs open borders, ever expanding social programs, extreme climate based over-reactionary policies, abortion on demand, intersectionality/diversity above all else. Easy choice, easy to look past the tweeting, crude comments, etc. Doesn’t mean I approve of everything he says, far from it. But still and easy choice.


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Whatever works for you, man. Since you don’t mind crassness, might I offer an analogy for your moral reasoning about our leaders? Think of a homeowner who has just a fantastic, unbelievable landscaper. Hedges are perfectly trimmed and the grass is green and lush 10 months a year. The only thing ruining this lawncare utopia is the fact that the landscaper is a pedophile. The neighbor of the homeowner sees the folly of his employment choice and informs him as such. The homeowner replies “Hmmm, that doesn’t sound so great.......but it’s OK, my kids are grown and out of the house.”

Just remember, at the end of the day, there are plenty of republicans and libertarians who match your worldview but who are also decent people- don’t pretend that Trump was the only one who fit your bill.
 
Whatever works for you, man. Since you don’t mind crassness, might I offer an analogy for your moral reasoning about our leaders? Think of a homeowner who has just a fantastic, unbelievable landscaper. Hedges are perfectly trimmed and the grass is green and lush 10 months a year. The only thing ruining this lawncare utopia is the fact that the landscaper is a pedophile. The neighbor of the homeowner sees the folly of his employment choice and informs him as such. The homeowner replies “Hmmm, that doesn’t sound so great.......but it’s OK, my kids are grown and out of the house.”

Nah, that's quite a poor comparison to be honest. I'm positive I could find a non-pedophile, competent landscaper. Now, if you had said there were only two landscapers in my town, one who was super polite and friendly but destroyed my yard every week, and the other that listened to loud crappy music and swore profusely all while making my yard the envy of everyone on my block, the choice would easy. And that would be a much more apt analogy.

I never said I don't mind crassness. But I'd much prefer crassness + good policy vs polite, polished politician + poor policy. (alliteration bonus WOOHOO!)
 
Like I said before, I don’t deny that he’s crass and rude and just says whatever comes to mind. Doesn’t change the fact that I like his policies way more than the alternative. I don’t vote with emotions or based off which candidate is nicer to people, but with practicality in mind. Strong borders, American exceptionalism, no PC nonsense, less regulation vs open borders, ever expanding social programs, extreme climate based over-reactionary policies, abortion on demand, intersectionality/diversity above all else. Easy choice, easy to look past the tweeting, crude comments, etc. Doesn’t mean I approve of everything he says, far from it. But still and easy choice.


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Yes of course everyone can make their own choice.
I just find it so problematic that people, trump supporters, are literally unable to recognize these harmful policies.
One thing that he did say that was truthful is that he could shoot someone on 5th ave and his supporters wouldn't care.
One can't separate racist, sexist, homophobic and xenophobic speech from policy/action.
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you are a not a woman, not black or brown, not queer or transgender, not poor and not an immigrant.
Go ahead and make your easy choice, but at least recognize what that choice is doing to other's lives.

Lastly, not in regards to discrimination. How can anyone that's not uber rich or a corporation agree with the new tax plan being beneficial for the majority of working people? Mind blowing.
 
Nah, that's quite a poor comparison to be honest. I'm positive I could find a non-pedophile, competent landscaper. Now, if you had said there were only two landscapers in my town, one who was super polite and friendly but destroyed my yard every week, and the other that listened to loud crappy music and swore profusely all while making my yard the envy of everyone on my block, the choice would easy. And that would be a much more apt analogy.

I never said I don't mind crassness. But I'd much prefer crassness + good policy vs polite, polished politician + poor policy. (alliteration bonus WOOHOO!)

Come to think of it, the hypothetical became much more real for the residents of Alabama in the Roy Moore vs Doug Jones race. I wonder who you would’ve picked
 
I don't live in Alabama : ) but pedophilia/underage relations is a tad different than calling a woman a pig, or any other number of crass things Trump has done.
 
I don't live in Alabama : ) but pedophilia/underage relations is a tad different than calling a woman a pig, or any other number of crass things Trump has done.

You perseverate on crass words but Trump is accused of unwanted touching by over a dozen women. Unwanted touching is sexual assault.

At what point do you think allegations against people like Harvey Weinstein or Roy Moore or Jeffrey Epstein or Trump become credible? After 1 accusation? 5? 40? 100?
 
Why exactly would you guess that? Just curious...

Because you were unable to recognize any policies that affect those groups negatively and asked for people to give you examples of such discriminatory policies. You said "I don’t really see much in there that makes the country a harder place for women, African-Americans or LGBTQ people. Am I missing something?"

For those of us whose those policies affect, we have been paying close attention.
For those of us in those groups, the country has become a harder place to live.
Of course no group is a monolith and of course there are women, black people, queer people, etc who support trump, but it is typically pretty clear the demographic who says trump's policies are "no big deal."
 
You perseverate on crass words but Trump is accused of unwanted touching by over a dozen women. Unwanted touching is sexual assault.

At what point do you think allegations against people like Harvey Weinstein or Roy Moore or Jeffrey Epstein or Trump become credible? After 1 accusation? 5? 40? 100?

# of allegations is irrelevant. Look at all the nonsense allegations that were drummed up and subsequently disproved regarding Kavanaugh. Credibility comes with proof. One provable allegation is worth a thousand false accusations.
 
Because you were unable to recognize any policies that affect those groups negatively and asked for people to give you examples of such discriminatory policies. You said "I don’t really see much in there that makes the country a harder place for women, African-Americans or LGBTQ people. Am I missing something?"

For those of us whose those policies affect, we have been paying close attention.
For those of us in those groups, the country has become a harder place to live.
Of course no group is a monolith and of course there are women, black people, queer people, etc who support trump, but it is typically pretty clear the demographic who says trump's policies are "no big deal."

So how do you explain those latinos, women, homosexuals, etc that support Trump? Are they just *****s? Clueless?
 
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# of allegations is irrelevant. Look at all the nonsense allegations that were drummed up and subsequently disproved regarding Kavanaugh. Credibility comes with proof. One provable allegation is worth a thousand false accusations.

There was nothing proven or disproven with the Kavanaugh allegations. That fact that you think they were disproven goes to the meaning of the word credibility. Not enough people found Ford or Ramirez’s allegations credible, however nor did the FBI interview all the people who were corroborating witnesses who would’ve added credibility. Therefore the matter was left in limbo and a presumption of innocence suffices.

In the case of Roy Moore, it’s not like videotape or DNA evidence was available to prove anything one way or another, but enough people found the firsthand accounts and the victims’ contemporaneous recounting to friends and family to be credible and compelling, enough for him to lose the election is a deeply red state. Weinstein was accused by 80 women, lost his company, and was finally arrested for rape....but I would also bet that there is no videotape or DNA evidence. It’s probably surprising to Trumpists that many of Trump’s accusers have similar degrees of credibility, but yet his supporters don’t really care about the credibility of the allegations.

Be honest with yourself- you and others purposefully ignore that Trump fits the modus operandi of a sexual assaulter vis a vis the playboy lifestyle, multiple affairs, paying hush money, misogynistic rhetoric, and there is nothing that would convince you that his 20+ accusers aren’t all liars.
 
So how do you explain those latinos, women, homosexuals, etc that support Trump? Are they just *****s? Clueless?

I can probably answer that as I belong to one of the minority groups trump and some of his supporters have routinely maligned.

Those within these minority groups that support trump usually do it from a place of privilege. Usually they are at a point where these policies don’t affect them and so they don’t care, a lot of it is apathy than unconditional support however.

I have attained that privilege now, I can totally support trump, and it won’t affect my life at all. But that doesn’t mean his agenda Doesn’t affect others who are less privileged than me.
 
Why exactly would you guess that? Just curious...

We’ll never know for sure, but the fact you’re concern trolling for Trump on SDN means likely a 90%+ chance you’re a straight, white, conservative male, natural born citizen, reads a fair amount of right wing social media/reddit/news sites, doesn’t believe minorities have structural disadvantages, age 25-45, middle to upper middle class, and thinks he got that way entirely through hard work and without a shred of cosmic good luck.
 
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I can probably answer that as I belong to one of the minority groups trump and some of his supporters have routinely maligned.

Those within these minority groups that support trump usually do it from a place of privilege. Usually they are at a point where these policies don’t affect them and so they don’t care, a lot of it is apathy than unconditional support however.

I have attained that privilege now, I can totally support trump, and it won’t affect my life at all. But that doesn’t mean his agenda Doesn’t affect others who are less privileged than me.

Yep exactly.
Like the hispanic military person who seemed to assume his privilege of being in the military and having a nice house with a white picket fence would allow his undocumented wife to continue to live in this country. But nope, she was deported back to mexico after living here for 20 years along with his daughter. Privilege works a lot, but not always.

If one isn't able to recognize how discriminatory policies are negatively affecting people's lives, that's a place of privilege.
 
I can probably answer that as I belong to one of the minority groups trump and some of his supporters have routinely maligned.

Those within these minority groups that support trump usually do it from a place of privilege. Usually they are at a point where these policies don’t affect them and so they don’t care, a lot of it is apathy than unconditional support however.

I have attained that privilege now, I can totally support trump, and it won’t affect my life at all. But that doesn’t mean his agenda Doesn’t affect others who are less privileged than me.

So what exactly is this place of privilege? And how can you attain privilege? I thought privilege was something you were born into?

What policies affect less privileged Latinos/African American vs privileged ones? Or less privileged women vs privileged women? I’m really trying to see your point but you’re losing me here kinda...


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Yep exactly.
Like the hispanic military person who seemed to assume his privilege of being in the military and having a nice house with a white picket fence would allow his undocumented wife to continue to live in this country. But nope, she was deported back to mexico after living here for 20 years along with his daughter. Privilege works a lot, but not always.

If one isn't able to recognize how discriminatory policies are negatively affecting people's lives, that's a place of privilege.

From this post, privilege is joining the military? And it’s also being ignorant about policy?

......????


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So what exactly is this place of privilege? And how can you attain privilege? I thought privilege was something you were born into?

What policies affect less privileged Latinos/African American vs privileged ones? Or less privileged women vs privileged women? I’m really trying to see your point but you’re losing me here kinda...


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Come on man, if you can’t see what I mean, then I don’t know what to say to you. I’m not going to change your mind. You will defend Trump to no end, and that’s ok, like I said, you have an agenda, like most trump supporters, and it doesn’t matter what he does, as long as he fulfills your agenda, he’s your man. You even admitted it In one of your posts. I respect you owning that instead of proclaiming him as the messiah as some of his supporters have.
 
We’ll never know for sure, but the fact you’re concern trolling for Trump on SDN means likely a 90%+ chance you’re a straight, white, conservative male, natural born citizen, reads a fair amount of right wing social media/reddit/news sites, doesn’t believe minorities have structural disadvantages, age 25-45, middle to upper middle class, and thinks he got that way entirely through hard work and without a shred of cosmic good luck.

Dude, try learning what "concern trolling" means.
 
Come on man, if you can’t see what I mean, then I don’t know what to say to you. I’m not going to change your mind. You will defend Trump to no end, and that’s ok, like I said, you have an agenda, like most trump supporters, and it doesn’t matter what he does, as long as he fulfills your agenda, he’s your man. You even admitted it In one of your posts. I respect you owning that instead of proclaiming him as the messiah as some of his supporters have.


Dude, I’m sorry, you’re post about privileged was as clear as mud to me. Maybe I’m too old to understand this privilege culture or something, but you can just hide behind ‘if you don’t understand my one post about privilege, all hope is lost’ nonsense. What did you mean by privilege? It sounds like financial security? So....you succeeded in your career and now you’re “privileged?”


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Matty pretending that his mind could be changed about trump and professing that he’s “just asking questions” so he can nobly get to the bottom of the matter is literally the definition of concern trolling. Try to keep up.

Uhhh, I told you exactly where I stand. I told you why I voted for trump, what I don’t like about him. I said I didn’t understand what practical concerns people had as opposed to people being offended by crude things he’s said and done, and I asked for peoples thoughts on that.

Please explain to me how I could have been more genuine without being accused of trolling?

Do I just have to dig in, sling insults, link a bunch of biased articles and refuse to even try to have a reasoned conversation a la medgator and radsisrad? I was trying to have a civil discussion, that seems impossible apparently.


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And then people start mention privilege this, privilege that, giving that word seemingly multiple odd meanings, so I asked for clarity on what it means and the convo gets shut down saying I’m hopeless if I don’t already understand it.

When did we lose the ability to have a simple discussion between people of opposing viewpoints without attacking each other so much?


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Dude, I’m sorry, you’re post about privileged was as clear as mud to me. Maybe I’m too old to understand this privilege culture or something, but you can just hide behind ‘if you don’t understand my one post about privilege, all hope is lost’ nonsense. What did you mean by privilege? It sounds like financial security? So....you succeeded in your career and now you’re “privileged?”


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Yes, being a physician is a privileged position, both from financial perspective and social perspective. That’s what I meant. I’m treated differently than others who belong to similar background. In addition, his policies/agenda is not harmful to me due to my earning potential and financial security. Therefore it’s easy for me to just sit back in apathy, or worse, support him. I’m not some bleeding heart liberal/socialist either. I have worked for everything I have and believe in personal responsibility. I’m def more right leaning, but I do see for things for what they are.
 
Yes, being a physician is a privileged position, both from financial perspective and social perspective. That’s what I meant. I’m treated differently than others who belong to similar background. In addition, his policies/agenda is not harmful to me due to my earning potential and financial security. Therefore it’s easy for me to just sit back in apathy, or worse, support him. I’m not some bleeding heart liberal/socialist either. I have worked for everything I have and believe in personal responsibility. I’m def more right leaning, but I do see for things for what they are.

Ok, so what Trump policies/agenda are you referring to that would affect I dunno, a Home Depot employee vs you a physician?


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Uhhh, I told you exactly where I stand. I told you why I voted for trump, what I don’t like about him. I said I didn’t understand what practical concerns people had as opposed to people being offended by crude things he’s said and done, and I asked for peoples thoughts on that.

Please explain to me how I could have been more genuine without being accused of trolling?

Do I just have to dig in, sling insults, link a bunch of biased articles and refuse to even try to have a reasoned conversation a la medgator and radsisrad? I was trying to have a civil discussion, that seems impossible apparently.


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I think we’re being perfectly civil. My point is that there is zip, zero, zilch number of anecdotes, news articles, or website links that would convince you that there are indeed practical concerns with the current administration’s policies. Even more difficult would be to try to convince you that the concerns would be much more serious had it not been for the courts, dems, or even members of the GOP stifling parts of Trump’s agenda.
 
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I think we’re being perfectly civil. My point is that there is zip, zero, zilch number of anecdotes, news articles, or website links that would convince you that there are indeed practical concerns with the current administration’s policies. Even more difficult would be to try to convince you that the concerns would be much more serious had it not been for the courts, dems, or even members of the GOP stifling parts of Trump’s agenda.

So after half a days worth of comments, you’ve deemed me so irredeemable and closed minded that I can never change my mind on any topic? Yeah, that’s super civil. Have I accused you of anything? Or merely asked some questions and then some clarifying follow up questions? Sheesh bud


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Uhhh, I told you exactly where I stand. I told you why I voted for trump, what I don’t like about him. I said I didn’t understand what practical concerns people had as opposed to people being offended by crude things he’s said and done, and I asked for peoples thoughts on that.

Please explain to me how I could have been more genuine without being accused of trolling?

Do I just have to dig in, sling insults, link a bunch of biased articles and refuse to even try to have a reasoned conversation a la medgator and radsisrad? I was trying to have a civil discussion, that seems impossible apparently.


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I answered your questions about policies that disproportionately discriminate against certain groups. Clearly, you didn't have an epipheny about them since you had no response to specific examples. People answered your questions about why we think he is racist, sexist, homophobic etc with specific words that have come out of his mouth and you continue to defend them. Hence why he is saying you're "concern trolling."

As far as privilege goes, no you aren't just born in to privilege. You can also obtain privliege. This can happen through a variety of means which can include things such as obtaining education, making money, marrying someone of a higher socioeconomic class, living in a certain neighborhood, obtaining a certain career, etc.
 
Ok, so what Trump policies/agenda are you referring to that would affect I dunno, a Home Depot employee vs you a physician?


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My skills are highly specialized and very much sought after, not to mention the profession itself commands a lot of respect in general. My colleagues are highly educated and can usually see beyond all the hateful stuff that has been said by him. My life is not affected much by all the divisive stuff that has come out of this administration. However, others less privileged of the same background are not as fortunate.

Let me ask you something, do you think it’s fine to blame certain minority groups as chief culprits for all the issues? Do you think It’s acceptable to seize on your disillusioned supporters’ worse fears and use it to create divisive atmosphere, just to gain more support? Do you think this has any ramifications at all?
 
Your long list of policies pretty much looked like it had to do with LGBT stuff and abortion, and no I didn’t have time to research every policy. Maybe there is something there with the LGBT thing, I dunno. I’m open to learning more about that. Shocking, I know.

None of the comments about him being racist seemed based in anything that real, just comments taken out of context like the KKK rally thing, all Mexicans being rapists, and other false claims of racism that are easily broken apart if you look at things closer. And I still haven’t heard one actual racist policy.

Then all these claims of privilege started and how that makes people support Trump, so I’m trying to understand that.


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Ok, so what Trump policies/agenda are you referring to that would affect I dunno, a Home Depot employee vs you a physician?


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I'm going to assume that a home depot employee is not making a 6 figure salary, thus they don't have the disposable income that me as a physician has:
1) If I need to get an abortion, I can drive or fly pretty much anywhere because I have the financial means to do so, that includes the ability to fly out of the country if need be.
2) If a hospital refuses to treat me because I'm gay or transgender, I have the ability to go to another hospital because I have private insurance and the ability to pay to do so
3) If I live in a neighborhood in which gerry mandering is a huge problem or there are ID laws that are making it difficult for me to vote, I can move
4) If I were getting my family planning care at a clinic that was previously using TItle X funds, but now that has gone away, I can easily go to another clinic for care or pay out of pocket for my family planning services
Etc
 
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