Will Trump win again???

[Matty44]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

My skills are highly specialized and very much sought after, not to mention the profession itself commands a lot of respect in general. My colleagues are highly educated and can usually see beyond all the hateful stuff that has been said by him. My life is not affected much by all the divisive stuff that has come out of this administration. However, others less privileged of the same background are not as fortunate.

Let me ask you something, do you think it’s fine to blame certain minority groups as chief culprits for all the issues? Do you think It’s acceptable to seize on your disillusioned supporters’ worse fears and use it to create divisive atmosphere, just to gain more support? Do you think this has any ramifications at all?

Of course I don’t think those things are good tactics.

But you still dodged my question about what policies you are immune to now that you are privileged. You just restated how less privileged people aren’t as fortunate. Don’t know what that means.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[vector2]

So after half a days worth of comments, you’ve deemed me so irredeemable and closed minded that I can never change my mind on any topic? Yeah, that’s super civil. Have I accused you of anything? Or merely asked some questions and then some clarifying follow up questions? Sheesh bud


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I didn’t say any topic. I just said you’re not going to change your mind on trump. Like you, I’ve assimilated the evidence about him over the last 3-4 yrs, but I’ve come to a different conclusion. I ain’t changing my mind either, and that’s ok. Really, my goal isn’t to have a long, futile, drawn out back and forth with you, but rather it’s to hopefully provide some context or novel information for any lurkers reading the thread who don’t follow politics as obsessively as me.

Beyond the specific “practical concerns” you want know about, there is just generally a bigger philosophical disagreement that we have. Take a look at this still from a 2016 campaign ad:

His entire campaign and now presidency has been about fear. Fear and division. And he wants us to believe that he is the strongman who can make us feel safe. Trump wants us to be scared that Muslims are terrorists ready to kill us all the time. He wants us to be scared that Mexicans are coming to this country to take our jobs, sell drugs, and rape us. Scared that a trans person may use the same bathroom. Scared that we can’t celebrate Christmas. Scared that all liberals are itching to create a widespread fetal genocide if abortion is safe and legal. Scared that cheeseburgers and V8s will be outlawed tomorrow. Scared that the govt is coming to seize all your assets.

Conservatism in its noblest form is a defense of liberty. Think long and hard about whether we as a nation become more or less free when we embrace an ideology where our basest fears drive our policy making.

 

[AMEHigh]

Your long list of policies pretty much looked like it had to do with LGBT stuff and abortion, and no I didn’t have time to research every policy. Maybe there is something there with the LGBT thing, I dunno. I’m open to learning more about that. Shocking, I know.

None of the comments about him being racist seemed based in anything that real, just comments taken out of context like the KKK rally thing, all Mexicans being rapists, and other false claims of racism that are easily broken apart if you look at things closer. And I still haven’t heard one actual racist policy.

Then all these claims of privilege started and how that makes people support Trump, so I’m trying to understand that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We are answering your questions.
1st you asked about specific policies in regards to certain groups and I posted them. They are not all about lgbtq people, they are also about women and people of color since the discussion was about him being racist, sexist, and homophobic. Hence me giving examples of specific policies to back up the words that he has said. Now you're questioning that.
2nd you asked why people of such groups might support trump. So once again we answered your question by saying privilege is likely a reason. Now you're questioning that as well.
We're just responding to your questions and supposed concern.

 

[Splenda88]

This discussion will easily fill another 10 pages and you are not going to convince whomever voted for Trump that he is not fit to be president... Many or most for that matter who voted for him did so because he make them feel good about themselves.

 

[deleted171991]

I mean, seriously, it’s incredible the number of ppl here who think it’s ok that a man who likely doesn’t have the ethical bonafides to make it through the physician credentialing process at most of our respective hospitals is somehow fit to serve as president of the United States.

Tell me who your friends are and I’ll tell you who you are.

 

[deleted171991]

I don't live in Alabama : ) but pedophilia/underage relations is a tad different than calling a woman a pig, or any other number of crass things Trump has done.

Like grabbing them by the p-ssy...

 

[deleted171991]

# of allegations is irrelevant. Look at all the nonsense allegations that were drummed up and subsequently disproved regarding Kavanaugh. Credibility comes with proof. One provable allegation is worth a thousand false accusations.

Actually they were not disproved. They were just not properly investigated by the FBI. Which is a matter of another congressional inquiry.

 

[deleted171991]

I can probably answer that as I belong to one of the minority groups trump and some of his supporters have routinely maligned.

Those within these minority groups that support trump usually do it from a place of privilege. Usually they are at a point where these policies don’t affect them and so they don’t care, a lot of it is apathy than unconditional support however.

I have attained that privilege now, I can totally support trump, and it won’t affect my life at all. But that doesn’t mean his agenda Doesn’t affect others who are less privileged than me.

Reminds me of the Jewish industrialists who supported Hitler because they thought they were untouchable. They all ended up as soap.

 

[aafisahar]

Reminds me of the Jewish industrialists who supported Hitler because they thought they were untouchable. They all ended up as soap.

Yep. Even more telling are people like Werner Van Braun who used the Nazi party to advance their own interests. People, especially physicians, who support Trump for personal gain are worse than Goebbels. They are mercenaries who owe no alliegence. At least I can respect principles no matter how wrong because that's what makes a person a person. I think Goebbels and company were horrible, irredeemable people but I respect them more than Van Braun who licensed himself to the Nazis in order to further his own interests in rocket design. He owed no alliegences to anyone. This thread is full of physicians acting despicably for a few thousand dollars while immigrants are rounded up, kids kept in cages, families torn apart, our allies backstabbed, our alliances dismantled, our environment sold for profit. They twist themselves into pretzels defending an amoral administration and party in order to make a few extra boat payments.

 

[Mikkel]

People, especially physicians, who support Trump for personal gain are worse than Goebbels.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Yep. Even more telling are people like Werner Van Braun who used the Nazi party to advance their own interests. People, especially physicians, who support Trump for personal gain are worse than Goebbels. They are mercenaries who owe no alliegence. At least I can respect principles no matter how wrong because that's what makes a person a person. I think Goebbels and company were horrible, irredeemable people but I respect them more than Van Braun who licensed himself to the Nazis in order to further his own interests in rocket design. He owed no alliegences to anyone. This thread is full of physicians acting despicably for a few thousand dollars while immigrants are rounded up, kids kept in cages, families torn apart, our allies backstabbed, our alliances dismantled, our environment sold for profit. They twist themselves into pretzels defending an amoral administration and party in order to make a few extra boat payments.

Seriously?

Your argument is basically "I will have respect for you no matter what you do as long as you are true to your principles no matter how horrible those principles are".

Do you actually think that the physicians here who are voting for Trump for purely financial reasons are worse than the people voting for him because they're racist and hope that things get worse for minorities.

Indifference isn't a good trait by any means but its better than actively wishing/doing harm. If I am walking down the street a see a murder that I ignore because I'm in a hurry and have somewhere to be, that does not make me worse than the person doing the murdering. To believe otherwise is just ridiculous.

To continue this ludicrous Nazi trend: Germans who knew about the concentration camps but didn't do anything because their lot in life was getting better are not worse than the SS guards who were the ones doing the beating/gassing just because the latter truly thought that Jews/Communists were subhuman and deserved it.

And before it comes up, I didn't vote for Trump in 2016 and I have no intention of voting for him in 2020 either (I could vote for Biden, otherwise its 3rd party again).

 

[Matty44]

Wow, I thought I could come here for some honest, civil discussion. But y’all are deranged. I get that people think trump is a chauvinistic ass, but now the hitler comparisons are coming out, the fascist accusations, and all sorts of craziness. Bottom line as I see it is that he’s not super pro LGBT, but has strengthened our security and economy. The alternative would open our borders, jack up governmental programs to a level we’ve never seen before, and move us a big step toward socialism. That alternative is far more scary of a scenario than anything Trump has done or will do. And it’s why he’ll win again in 2020.

But go ahead and chalk it up to half the country being racists when he does get four more years.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[electropartyogram]

immigrants are rounded up, kids kept in cages, families torn apart, our allies backstabbed, our alliances dismantled, our environment sold for profit.

President Obama did all of these things as well.

 

[Matty44]

President Obama did all of these things as well.

When Obama did these things it was from a place of love and unity, Trump obviously does it out a of hatred for all minorities and women, and because of privilege [emoji849]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[vector2]

Wow, I thought I could come here for some honest, civil discussion. But y’all are deranged. I get that people think trump is a chauvinistic ass, but now the hitler comparisons are coming out, the fascist accusations, and all sorts of craziness. Bottom line as I see it is that he’s not super pro LGBT, but has strengthened our security and economy. The alternative would open our borders, jack up governmental programs to a level we’ve never seen before, and move us a big step toward socialism. That alternative is far more scary of a scenario than anything Trump has done or will do. And it’s why he’ll win again in 2020.

But go ahead and chalk it up to half the country being racists when he does get four more years.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Strengthened our security? Puhhhhlease. We have foreign interference in our domestic affairs at a level not seen since the cold war. A foreign cyberwarfare effort is still going full steam ahead. We treat our neighbors to the north and south like garbage. The pres is stealing money from the DoD through executive, not legislative, action to try to build a wall that the Congress never authorized. We have a president and administration who don't have a clue how diplomacy with Western Europe and NATO post-WWII led to one of the most relatively peaceful and prosperous eras in human history. We have a president who almost certainly buddies up with authoritarians like Putin, Kim, MBS, Duterte, Erdogan because he stands to make millions of dollars from them now and continue to do so once his sham of a presidency is over. We have an administration who is now abandoning the allies who helped us defeat ISIS, and this will certainly have repercussions for when America needs to act in concert with allies on the world stage again.

Assuming that American supremacy on the world stage is guaranteed ad infinitum is the epitome of folly. China has a thousand year plan while we descend into rabid isolationism and ultranationalism, instead of strengthening the global ties that have kept us on top.

 

[medgator]

, but has strengthened our security and economy.

Fake news. He just gave isis free reign in Syria. And us manufacturing is the worst since 2009.

And looks like you want to give a free pass to his trillion dollar annual deficits too.

Please stop gaslighting us

 

[electropartyogram]

Strengthened our security? Puhhhhlease. We have foreign interference in our domestic affairs at a level not seen since the cold war. A foreign cyberwarfare effort is still going full steam ahead. We treat our neighbors to the north and south like garbage. The pres is stealing money from the DoD through executive, not legislative, action to try to build a wall that the Congress never authorized. We have a president and administration who don't have a clue how diplomacy with Western Europe and NATO post-WWII led to one of the most relatively peaceful and prosperous eras in human history. We have a president who almost certainly buddies up with authoritarians like Putin, Kim, MBS, Duterte, Erdogan because he stands to make millions of dollars from them now and continue to do so once his sham of a presidency is over. We have an administration who is now abandoning the allies who helped us defeat ISIS, and this will certainly have repercussions for when America needs to act in concert with allies on the world stage again.

Assuming that American supremacy on the world stage is guaranteed ad infinitum is the epitome of folly. China has a thousand year plan while we descend into rabid isolationism and ultranationalism, instead of strengthening the global ties that have kept us on top.

The United States has also been interfering in foreign elections for decades (CIA), and are actively engaged in cyberwarfare. Others will do it to us. It is going to happen no matter who is president. Also, fairly sure Clinton is implicated in Fusion GPS/Dossier mess.

Illegal immigration from South and Central America via Mexico is unchecked. It needs to stop. America is well within its right to maintain its sovereignty.
At this point, illegal immigration is considered invasive, so it can become a national defense issue. Side note: How much taxpayer money was stolen from Californian citizens so their incompetent Democrat leadership could make homeless initiatives and high-speed rails that never come to fruition??

Post-WWII, if I remember correctly, was when communism was spread, causing death to people on the scale of tens of millions. Wouldn't necessarily call it peaceful and prosperous just because there wasn't a war, which there was multiple (Korea, Vietnam).

At this point, it is better to have some working relationship with other nations leaders, despite what they are. Obama did nothing about it. Trump is doing something about it, and it has been working for the better. Clinton would not have done a better job in this department.

Turkey is in NATO and is technically an ally. Isolationism is an okay stance. We were going to leave eventually. Better it happens now.

 

[BLADEMDA]

We can agree to disagree but comparing those of us who voted for Trump as Nazis and Racists is simply a false narrative meant to demonize those with whom we disagree.

That’s why the left continues to lose moderates. A false narrative with utmost contempt for those who disagree with them. The true Socialists are those who want an oppressive govt, confiscation of wealth and an alteration in our second amendment rights.

 

[medgator]

Obama did nothing about it. Trump is doing something about it, and it has been working for the better. Clinton would not have done a better job in this department.

Turkey is in NATO and is technically an ally. Isolationism is an okay stance. We were going to leave eventually. Better it happens now.

Trump isn't exactly singing kumbaya with Europe, while palling around with Putin and Kim jong. You think those two are more honest and have our national interests at heart?

This should go over well too:

As Turkey attacks Kurds in Syria, Trump says any ISIS escapees are Europe's problem

U.S. military takes custody of 2 militants, but there are about 10,000 more in jails guarded by America's Kurdish allies, who feel "stabbed in the back"

www.cbsnews.com

Trump basically proved he's both Putin's and erdogan's bitch in a single phone call last weekend and he's creating deficits that any Republican with their scruples left would be ashamed of

 

[Matty44]

Hey, look at that. There are a few sane people here that aren’t entrenched in CNN and MSNBC talking points. Thanks for saving me some typing electropartyogram.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[medgator]

.

That’s why the left continues to lose moderates.

You think the right is gaining them? The McCain/Romney faction of the GOP is gone. Dems didn't pick up the biggest house majority since Watergate for no reason.

I guess fox news is liberal these days too, huh?

Fox News Poll: Record support for Trump impeachment

Just over half of voters want President Trump impeached and removed from office, according to a Fox News Poll released Wednesday.

www.foxnews.com

 

[BoolaHI]

Hey, look at that. There are a few sane people here that aren’t entrenched in CNN and MSNBC talking points. Thanks for saving me some typing electropartyogram.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sir, you have officially meandered into troll territory and have the dual distinction of also being recognized as a servile puppy dog and practicing ****old for Trump. Yours is a pillocks errand and folly, filled with lots of crusty and pithy platitudes, but nary any real evidence and fact.

As a man of color, your basic premise and supposition, is that Trump has done nothing to me in which I should be either assailed or feel insulted, but in fact, he is our next Marcus Garvey (look it up)—child please.

 

[vector2]

The United States has also been interfering in foreign elections for decades (CIA), and are actively engaged in cyberwarfare. Others will do it to us. It is going to happen no matter who is president. Also, fairly sure Clinton is implicated in Fusion GPS/Dossier mess.

Illegal immigration from South and Central America via Mexico is unchecked. It needs to stop. America is well within its right to maintain its sovereignty.
At this point, illegal immigration is considered invasive, so it can become a national defense issue. Side note: How much taxpayer money was stolen from Californian citizens so their incompetent Democrat leadership could make homeless initiatives and high-speed rails that never come to fruition??

Post-WWII, if I remember correctly, was when communism was spread, causing death to people on the scale of tens of millions. Wouldn't necessarily call it peaceful and prosperous just because there wasn't a war, which there was multiple (Korea, Vietnam).

At this point, it is better to have some working relationship with other nations leaders, despite what they are. Obama did nothing about it. Trump is doing something about it, and it has been working for the better. Clinton would not have done a better job in this department.

Turkey is in NATO and is technically an ally. Isolationism is an okay stance. We were going to leave eventually. Better it happens now.

Clinton, Fusion GPS, California, Obama, Clinton. Incorrect assertions, Whataboutism and conspiracy theories are all you're capable of bringing to the table.

Other countries may always try to interfere in our elections. We have a president who actively encourages it and denies what every law enforcement and intelligence agency is desperately trying to tell him about interference. Take your head out of the sand.

Legislators in border states want more manpower and 21st century technological solutions to stop illegal immigration. No one in border states wants a stupid ass wall, and indeed Trump couldn't get a wall done when GOP controlled congress. I wonder if you remember when he said MEXICO WOULD PAY FOR THE WALL? Trumpists conveniently dont bring that up now that trump is stealing unappropriated DoD money to pay for it. That makes us less secure.

I never said people magically stopped dying post-WWII and I also said 'relative' peace and prosperity, not utopia, so don't strawman me. Trumpists have a poor understanding of history and are perhaps unaware (or purposefully ignorant) about how various disorganized entanglements and a lack of strong coordinated alliances led to conditions that caused WWI and WWII.

The rest of your post about "working relationships" with dictators, isolationism being good, and us leaving NATO is a bunch of unintelligible propagandistic nonsense.

 

[electropartyogram]

Trump isn't exactly singing kumbaya with Europe, while palling around with Putin and Kim jong. You think those two are more honest and have our national interests at heart?

This should go over well too:

As Turkey attacks Kurds in Syria, Trump says any ISIS escapees are Europe's problem

U.S. military takes custody of 2 militants, but there are about 10,000 more in jails guarded by America's Kurdish allies, who feel "stabbed in the back"

www.cbsnews.com

Trump basically proved he's both Putin's and erdogan's bitch in a single phone call last weekend and he's creating deficits that any Republican with their scruples left would be ashamed of

No, but when has Europe ever done anything in the interest of the United States, especially when we contribute 22% of the UN budget? They don't of course, they are self-centered. But Trump has taken a strong stance, and has shown he is willing to negotiate. He has done a fair job at these relations.

I have outlined my response about the Turkey situation in a previous reply, it is more complicated than what we see. As far as I see it, ISIS will go after Turkey, so now, it is Turkey's responsibility to protect it's citizens from ISIS.

Trump is posturing to keep Turkey on our side from Russia. We did this post-WWII, we had nukes in Turkey postured at Russia. Better now to stay on their good side, as they are also a NATO ally. Isolationism here is not a bad policy.

I agree with the last point, he did create a large deficit, but he did so with the intention that the economy will be able to counteract it. I believe corporations should pay their fair share of taxes, considering they get more benefit from the government than the citizens.

 

[Matty44]

Blades right, most on the left immediately vilify those who disagree and most times just shut down discussion, or sling ad hominem insults to undercut any kind of substantive talks about the finer points of policy. When you starting point is that the other side does everything out of white nationalist/racist/privileged motives, it makes any productive discussion very difficult. I don’t have any ill will toward leftists, nor do I think their motives are bad, I just think they are often times misinformed or just have different priorities. And therefore I make the often times incorrect judgment that productive conversation can be had, but sadly it’s often not the case.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[medgator]

I agree with the last point, he did create a large deficit, but he did so with the intention that the economy will be able to counteract it. I believe corporations should pay their fair share of taxes, considering they get more benefit from the government than the citizens.

Trump's legacy

Billionaires paid lower tax rate than working class for first time in US history: study

Billionaires paid less in taxes than the working class last year for the first time in U.S. history, a study found.Economists Emmanuel Saez and Gabriel Zucman found in their book-length study &#822…

thehill.com

 

[vector2]

Hey, look at that. There are a few sane people here that aren’t entrenched in CNN and MSNBC talking points. Thanks for saving me some typing electropartyogram.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bro, can I at least say I'm glad you've given up the hilarious schtick that you wanted to come in here like your mind was some open book ready for honest debate and a change of opinion

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

You think the right is gaining them? The McCain/Romney faction of the GOP is gone. Dems didn't pick up the biggest house majority since Watergate for no reason.

I guess fox news is liberal these days too, huh?

Fox News Poll: Record support for Trump impeachment

Just over half of voters want President Trump impeached and removed from office, according to a Fox News Poll released Wednesday.

www.foxnews.com

I'm going to assume you mean its the largest Democrat change of seats since Watergate because 2010 was a bigger change in seats than 2018.

 

[electropartyogram]

The rest of your post about "working relationships" with dictators, isolationism being good, and us leaving NATO is a bunch of unintelligible propagandistic nonsense.

When did I say "leaving NATO"? I only mentioned Turkey is in NATO and so are we.

Trump asks for a wall and he does mean a literal wall. He also means drones, surveillance, and recently sought to increase CBP and ICE numbers with the money. It's not just the wall. The word "wall" is easy enough to appeal to the base, as are words like "FREE" which Democrats use to appeal to their base.

 

[BLADEMDA]

For my liberal friends out there Trump is far from being perfect and many of his policies have missed the mark like the tax cuts.

Trump is a brash, loud, self-promoting narcissist. But, I don’t believe he is a racist. Second, Trump is a populist much more than a conservative. He goes where the mainstream voter wants him to go. Conservatives support him because there isn’t an alternative right now. This is similar to why most liberals will vote for Biden if he gets the nomination even though they prefer Sanders.

Regardless of your political beliefs the USA is not a racist nation and the GOP doesn’t support racist policies. The GOP thinks our borders should be protected and the govt needs to stay out of our lives. The latter is so important that conservatives have even accepted gay marriage as the law of the land even though Congress never voted for it.

 

[electropartyogram]

Trump's legacy

Billionaires paid lower tax rate than working class for first time in US history: study

Billionaires paid less in taxes than the working class last year for the first time in U.S. history, a study found.Economists Emmanuel Saez and Gabriel Zucman found in their book-length study &#822…

thehill.com

The majority of a billionaire's wealth is in stock of the company they own. The company does well, then the shareholders make money. Taxes are on a different level when they don't get paid a "salary". Yes, I don't agree and I think they should pay more in taxes. It needs to start with higher corporate taxes though.

 

[medgator]

The majority of a billionaire's wealth is in stock of the company they own. The company does well, then the shareholders make money. Taxes are on a different level when they don't get paid a "salary". Yes, I don't agree and I think they should pay more in taxes. It needs to start with higher corporate taxes though.

The exact opposite of what the Trump tax bill did. In fact the only permanent cuts are for corporations

 

[electropartyogram]

The exact opposite of what the Trump tax bill did. In fact the only permanent cuts are for corporations

Just because I support Trump does not mean I agree with all of his actions/decisions/policy. I agree corporations should not have had their taxes cut. They just did stock buybacks, little reinvestment. He trusted them to do the right thing, and they did not.

 

[BLADEMDA]

The exact opposite of what the Trump tax bill did. In fact the only permanent cuts are for corporations

Many Dems supported a corporate tax cut. We as a nation need to have a competitive corporate tax rate. This is a complicated issue and I recommend you do some reading on it before opining that corporate rates need to be raised much, much higher.

I think all tax loopholes should be closed a reasonable, competitive corporate tax rate be passed by Congress and signed into law. But, that rate should be competitive against other nations and not punitive to companies based in the USA.

 

[medgator]

Just because I support Trump does not mean I agree with all of his actions/decisions/policy. I agree corporations should not have had their taxes cut. They just did stock buybacks, little reinvestment. He trusted them to do the right thing, and they did not.

That's not the only thing Trump is naive on

 

[medgator]

Many Dems supported a corporate tax cut. We as a nation need to have a competitive corporate tax rate. This is a complicated issue and I recommend you do some reading on it before opining that corporate rates need to be raised much, much higher.

I think all tax loopholes should be closed a reasonable, competitive corporate tax rate be passed by Congress and signed into law. But, that rate should be competitive against other nations and not punitive to companies based in the USA.

I've done the reading. The bill was terrible

 

[BoolaHI]

For my liberal friends out there Trump is far from being perfect and many of his policies have missed the mark like the tax cuts.

Trump is a brash, loud, self-promoting narcissist. But, I don’t believe he is a racist. Second, Trump is a populist much more than a conservative. He goes where the mainstream voter wants him to go. Conservatives support him because there isn’t an alternative right now. This is similar to why most liberals will vote for Biden if he gets the nomination even though they prefer Sanders.

Regardless of your political beliefs the USA is not a racist nation and the GOP doesn’t support racist policies. The GOP thinks our borders should be protected and the govt needs to stay out of our lives. The latter is so important that conservatives have even accepted gay marriage as the law of the land even though Congressdirect never voted for it.

Direct question back to you: are you the subject and/or topic of his inane comments and taunts? Are you a person of color? If the answer is no to any of these questions, how can you answer and provide some definitive reply for a community you are not even a member of or have any insight to how that might be perceived?

 

[electropartyogram]

That's not the only thing Trump is naive on

I agree, he is naive on many things. And so are many other politicians. Trump's policies are way more appealing in my eyes than any 2020 Democratic candidate. Any Democrat that is reasonably moderate, with a centrist-leaning platform? I don't see any.

 

[AMEHigh]

Blades right, most on the left immediately vilify those who disagree and most times just shut down discussion, or sling ad hominem insults to undercut any kind of substantive talks about the finer points of policy. When you starting point is that the other side does everything out of white nationalist/racist/privileged motives, it makes any productive discussion very difficult. I don’t have any ill will toward leftists, nor do I think their motives are bad, I just think they are often times misinformed or just have different priorities. And therefore I make the often times incorrect judgment that productive conversation can be had, but sadly it’s often not the case.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I didn’t vilify. I answered every single question that you asked. It seems as though you didn’t want a productive conversation to begin with as it has just delved in to more "gotcha" questions.

I’m certainly not misinformed. I don’t agree with everything every single democrat has done, including Obama. However, it seems as though trump supporters are incapable of seeing a single fault in trumps words and actions and how it negatively affects certain groups. So yeah you are correct in that there likely won’t be a productive conversation when the president can literally and figuratively shoot someone on 5th ave and still have enthusiastic supporters who think there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

I wouldn’t be surprised if next up people are ok with David Duke being president!

 

[AMEHigh]

For my liberal friends out there Trump is far from being perfect and many of his policies have missed the mark like the tax cuts.

Trump is a brash, loud, self-promoting narcissist. But, I don’t believe he is a racist. Second, Trump is a populist much more than a conservative. He goes where the mainstream voter wants him to go. Conservatives support him because there isn’t an alternative right now. This is similar to why most liberals will vote for Biden if he gets the nomination even though they prefer Sanders.

Regardless of your political beliefs the USA is not a racist nation and the GOP doesn’t support racist policies. The GOP thinks our borders should be protected and the govt needs to stay out of our lives. The latter is so important that conservatives have even accepted gay marriage as the law of the land even though Congress never voted for it.

Oh lord. How is the US not a racist nation? It literally killed the natives, took their land, is still trying to take their land and brought black people over here and literally killed them to build this nation? I knew history class seriously white washed things but sometimes i’m surprised at what people believe. I really shouldn’t be though :/

 

[AMEHigh]

Next up: the KKK is just a friendly neighborhood organization!!! Lynching is just a fun game!!!

 

[BLADEMDA]

Direct question back to you: are you the subject and/or topic of his inane comments and taunts? Are you a person of color? If the answer is no to any of these questions, how can you answer and provide some definitive reply for a community you are not even a member of or have any insight to how that might be perceived?

Please do not misunderstand me. You are entitled to your opinions about Trump and the GOP. They may not be true or even factual but that is your right as a Citizen. You can blog about it and even state it on CNN. But, that doesn’t make it any more true or factual than the White Supremacist view that Obama was a Muslim whose goal was to destroy the USA.

These opinions are important for a free society. Debate and disagreement no matter how ugly it appears is healthy for a democracy. But, remaining Civil and using logic to sway opinion is how we affect change in our nation.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Oh lord. How is the US not a racist nation? It literally killed the natives, took their land, is still trying to take their land and brought black people over here and literally killed them to build this nation? I knew history class seriously white washed things but sometimes i’m surprised at what people believe. I really shouldn’t be though :/

Not racist today! Racism is part of the history of this nation. The battle for true equality under the law began with Martin Luther King. We have come a long way since that time.

 

[electropartyogram]

Next up: the KKK is just a friendly neighborhood organization!!! Lynching is just a fun game!!!

Comments like this are unnecessary and are not conducive to a productive conversation.

 

[BLADEMDA]

I've done the reading. The bill was terrible

The bill missed the mark. I would like to see changes to it as well. Too many tax breaks for the rich. Too many loopholes. The corporate rate may need to be 25 percent.

 

[deleted87051]

The majority of a billionaire's wealth is in stock of the company they own. The company does well, then the shareholders make money. Taxes are on a different level when they don't get paid a "salary". Yes, I don't agree and I think they should pay more in taxes. It needs to start with higher corporate taxes though.

You and I and Elizabeth Warren agree on this point.

 

[AMEHigh]

Comments like this are unnecessary and are not conducive to a productive conversation.

Neither are comments like the US isn’t racist, so I can’t just ignore them.

Sure, I don’t walk through my neighborhood and see young black men hanging lynched from trees like my grandfather did who is still alive. However, the KKK is still alive and well and there are state and federal actions and policies that specifically negatively affect people of color.

To think that just because we aren’t literally living under Jim Crow laws today means that there is not still racism in the US is naive at best and dangerous at worse.

In no way am I saying that every white person in this country is racist, what I’m saying is the history of this county has lead us to where we are today which still has a lot of problems with systemic inequality based on race (and sex).

If people are being sincere in here then I highly recommend you read up on these topics, starting with reading books about the true history of this country they typically don’t teach in schools and then continuing on to read about how these policies affect us and this country today.

But if people aren’t being sincere (or don’t care), then just say so. But it certainly is fake news based on facts and policies that people in the US don’t still experience racism.

 

[electropartyogram]

You and I and Elizabeth Warren agree on this point.

View attachment 283047

I mean shes not entirely off her rocker. Corporate income taxes should be the majority, considering they benefit the most.

 

[Matty44]

Bro, can I at least say I'm glad you've given up the hilarious schtick that you wanted to come in here like your mind was some open book ready for honest debate and a change of opinion

It was no schtick bro. And im not an expert on every topic or every policy ever put into place by every administration, so I have no problem asking questions. Also, it’s so taboo to bring up conservative ideas in the workplace because people jump to the racist/privilege nonsense so fast that most people, myself included, keep thoughts to themselves while in person. So sometimes it’s nice to talk in this kind of forum where you can speak your mind and hear others do the same.

And you can believe it or not, but I did honestly hope to get some more nuanced opinions on things, other than Trump is racist/sexist/bigot/homophobe and all his policies oppress everyone whose not a white male. Unfortunately, that wasn’t the case. And when people start going at you and condemning you and your supposed privilege, and tell you that you have no right to speak on a topic if you don’t belong to a specific intersectionality group, then it leads me to a place where I can see that productive debate is maybe not possible. That’s all bro.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[electropartyogram]

Neither are comments like the US isn’t racist, so I can’t just ignore them.

Sure, I don’t walk through my neighborhood and see young black men hanging lynched from trees like my grandfather did who is still alive. However, the KKK is still alive and well and there are state and federal actions and policies that specifically negatively affect people of color.

To think that just because we aren’t literally living under Jim Crow laws today means that there is not still racism in the US is naive at best and dangerous at worse.

In no way am I saying that every white person in this country is racist, what I’m saying is the history of this county has lead us to where we are today which still has a lot of problems with systemic inequality based on race (and sex).

If people are being sincere in here then I highly recommend you read up on these topics, starting with reading books about the true history of this country they typically don’t teach in schools and then continuing on to read about how these policies affect us and this country today.

But if people aren’t being sincere (or don’t care), then just say so. But it certainly is fake news based on facts and policies that people in the US don’t still experience racism.

You said your comment with the intention of being inflammatory. @BLADEMDA saying the U.S. isn't a racist country, which I agree with, is not inflammatory if it is a true statement. The U.S., currently, does not actively discriminate against other races. There are no policies promoting racism or policies that work to prevent non-(any race) from going anywhere.

The U.S. does have a rough, racist, sexist history, but so does everywhere else. Women in Saudi Arabia literally just got the right to drive. The U.S. is much better than that.

No one has said that people in the U.S. do not experience racism. African American/Blacks, Hispanics, Native Americans disproportionately experience most of the discrimination by police. However, there is a cultural problem, and it was touched on in previous posts in this thread, especially points about the majority of children born out of wedlock (i.e. usually no father figure) disproportionately are African American/Black.

Saying comments like this:

Lynching is just a fun game!!!

is immature. I understand the sarcasm but the say-the-most-outrageous-and-inflammatory-comment thing sure is getting old and is counterproductive.