William Carey Had Only 88 Matches, What Happened?

[2021Doctor]

Residency Placement Data | William Carey University

www.wmcarey.edu

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[Tragal Pointer]

It appears that 90 students actually entered the match, and 2 of them didn’t find a spot. If their class size is larger than 90, then those people failed or remediated etc. Pretty self explanatory.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

What do you mean? People sometimes don't match. It's for a variety of reasons

 

[DOVinciRobot]

looks like the I coming class at WCU for the class of 2021 is 100.

So 10 didn’t make it to graduation or were held back. Honestly a true 88% match rate out of how many started the class really isn’t that bad.

What’s bad is their plan to increase their class size to 200 by 2022

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

It’s pretty standard tbh.. it puts their 4 year graduation rate in the 80-85% range which is pretty normal for most medical schools..

 

[deleted1066189]

What’s bad is their plan to increase their class size to 200 by 2022

time for Goro to put WCU back on the bad boy list

 

[Tragal Pointer]

time for Goro to put WCU back on the bad boy list

William Carey would be ashamed.

 

[DrZoidbergDO]

 

[MDMechEngr]

William SCarey.

 

[poly_123]

anyone know how many matchd wih SOAP for william carey. Really wanna know the percent

 

[ibnalkamil1990]

anyone know how many matchd wih SOAP for william carey. Really wanna know the percent

Does it really matter? Just focus on you. I understand that schools should set up their students for success but we're all adults and we should know better than to attend weaker schools with poor resources. My buddy's DO school had at least 15 students drop out/fail in the first two years. There's always a chance the ones who dropped out due to academic reasons might have passed and gone on to match at a better DO school or an MD school but life isn't fair.

 

[poly_123]

Does it really matter? Just focus on you. I understand that schools should set up their students for success but we're all adults and we should know better than to attend weaker schools with poor resources. My buddy's DO school had at least 15 students drop out/fail in the first two years. There's always a chance the ones who dropped out due to academic reasons might have passed and gone on to match at a better DO school or an MD school but life isn't fair.

I hope to god you are never my doctor

 

[DOVinciRobot]

I hope to god you are never my doctor

Lmao.

 

[thepoopologist]

Since we're headed down this road, Hitler.

 

[arjusmc]

It’s pretty standard tbh.. it puts their 4 year graduation rate in the 80-85% range which is pretty normal for most medical schools..

Is that really true? USMD is probably higher, correct?

 

[ibnalkamil1990]

Is that really true? USMD is probably higher, correct?

Yes. Most are 94-98%.

 

[arjusmc]

Yes. Most are 94-98%.

I’m just shocked by how many my school has repeating 1st year. With the numbers supplied, I suppose my school isn’t higher than normal.

 

[ibnalkamil1990]

I’m just shocked by how many my school has repeating 1st year. With the numbers supplied, I suppose my school isn’t higher than normal.

It's really crazy. Schools need to do a better job of recruiting students - and it's not always due to stats. I know a handful of people at "top" DO schools with >3.5 >504 who had to repeat a year while others with much lower stats made it through in 4 years just fine.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

Yes. Most are 94-98%.

No lol 4 year graduation average at USMD is 85-88%, 5 year is 97%

 

[Osminog]

anyone know how many matchd wih SOAP for william carey. Really wanna know the percent

Based on what students have reported on SDN in the past, in 2017, WCU only matched half of its graduating class without SOAP/scramble, and 8% didn’t get a spot even after SOAP/scramble and just didn’t enter a residency program.

Every match, ~15% of DO grads end up participating in the SOAP, based on AMA and AACOM data. Given WCU’s not-so-pristine track record, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if it exceeds that average.

 

[deleted1079620]

It's really crazy. Schools need to do a better job of recruiting students - and it's not always due to stats. I know a handful of people at "top" DO schools with >3.5 >504 who had to repeat a year while others with much lower stats made it through in 4 years just fine.

You’re assuming that all repeating students repeat due to grades. About half are due to unforeseen medical or family issues that come up.

 

[drducky.]

It's really crazy. Schools need to do a better job of recruiting students - and it's not always due to stats. I know a handful of people at "top" DO schools with >3.5 >504 who had to repeat a year while others with much lower stats made it through in 4 years just fine.

That’s a good point. I think the rigor of your undergrad should be assessed during admission. An arts major with 3.5gpa that spent an hour a day studying and got a 504 on the mcat due to good test taking ability is a lot more likely to fail out than a 3.5gpa engineer major that spent 8hrs a days grinding with strong work ethic.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Based on what students have reported on SDN in the past, in 2017, WCU only matched half of its graduating class without SOAP/scramble, and 8% didn’t get a spot even after SOAP/scramble and just didn’t enter a residency program.

Every match, ~15% of DO grads end up participating in the SOAP, based on AMA and AACOM data. Given WCU’s not-so-pristine track record, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if it exceeds that average.

If 89-90% of DO grads match, how is it that 15% participates in SOAP every year? That doesn't add up.

 

[Osminog]

If 89-90% of DO grads match, how is it that 15% participates in SOAP every year? That doesn't add up.

According to the 2021 data, there were 964 DO seniors participating in SOAP, while there were only 589 DO seniors who failed to match. I can't be certain, but that might mean that the many people who matched only into transitional/internship/preliminary programs were trying to snag advanced positions in the SOAP.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

In

According to the 2021 data, there were 964 DO seniors participating in SOAP, while there were only 589 DO seniors who failed to match. I can't be certain, but that might mean that the many people who matched only into transitional/internship/preliminary programs were trying to snag advanced positions in the SOAP.

is that possible? If you match, can you still participate in the SOAP?

 

[Ho0v-man]

In

is that possible? If you match, can you still participate in the SOAP?

When you match only in your prelim/TY, or advanced program, then yes. It’s called a partial match and you must soap the part you didn’t match.

 

[DameJulie]

According to the 2021 data, there were 964 DO seniors participating in SOAP, while there were only 589 DO seniors who failed to match. I can't be certain, but that might mean that the many people who matched only into transitional/internship/preliminary programs were trying to snag advanced positions in the SOAP.

Is it me or 964 DOs having to SOAP sounds very alarming and concerning?

 

[The kitchen sink]

That’s a good point. I think the rigor of your undergrad should be assessed during admission. An arts major with 3.5gpa that spent an hour a day studying and got a 504 on the mcat due to good test taking ability is a lot more likely to fail out than a 3.5gpa engineer major that spent 8hrs a days grinding with strong work ethic.

It’s exactly this type of arbitrary judgement that has lead to the types of stats you all are complaining about today. I could EASILY argue that the art major is poised to be more successful than the engineer major, the art major studied an hour a day and got that score. Natural test taking ability can get you a long long way in medical school. Admissions to medical school is far from a perfect science.
Full disclosure: I matriculated before they changed to this 500 scoring system. If something could briefly summarize how it translates, that would be quite helpful!
Edit: typos

 

[drducky.]

It’s exactly this type of arbitrary judgement that has lead to the types of stats you all are complaining about today. I could EASILY argue that the art major is poised to be more successful than the engineer major, the art major studied an hour a day and got that score. Natural test taking ability can get you a long long way in medical school. Admissions to medical school is far from a perfect science.
Full disclosure: I matriculated before they changed to this 500 scoring system. If something could briefly summarize how it translates, that would be quite helpful!
Edit: typos

Sorry but someone that studies 1hr a day will never do better than someone that studies 8hrs a day in med school, no matter how good of a test taker they are

 

[drstranger]

Is it me or 964 DOs having to SOAP sounds very alarming and concerning?

It's not the best thing in the world, but it's not that bad. There are a lot of reasons for someone to not match, they could have overestimated their competitiveness, underapplied, or applied to a specific region for various regions. Also, consider this is the 2021 Covid data so lots of weird stuff with the application year. What is more concerning is the 480 DO seniors that did not soap.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Is it me or 964 DOs having to SOAP sounds very alarming and concerning?

There were also 2125 MD seniors participating in the soap as well. Was that alarming and concerning?

 

[Neopolymath]

I did

Sorry but someone that studies 1hr a day will never do better than someone that studies 8hrs a day in med school, no matter how good of a test taker they are

 

[The kitchen sink]

Sorry but someone that studies 1hr a day will never do better than someone that studies 8hrs a day in med school, no matter how good of a test taker they are

You missed my point. I wasn’t saying that the person who studies 1 hr would do better than someone who studies 8 hrs in med school, we all know that. Im saying that in your hypothetical scenario, it reflects the natural intelligence and test taking ability of that individual to score decently enough with 7 less hours of studying.

Also, no one asks how long you studied when you apply to med school nor would an applicant admit they studied fewer hours…….so not sure what you were trying to say with your original post

 

[The kitchen sink]

Engineer UG Major here. Studied my arse off UG at top 5 public univeristy with 3.98 and a 90 percentile MCAT. Just completed my 1st year and all exams were >90% and 2 standard deviation above the class mean. Not bragging and not discounting all the other majors as we all worked SMARTLY to get here, but I get what drducky is saying.

I am actually not disagreeing with drducky i was just making a different point but it may have been lost in the lingo

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I did

An hour a day outside of actual learning or an hour a day total? Because if it’s the latter, it would be really difficult to even just cover all the material in a block before the exams.

 

[gyngyn]

Full disclosure: I matriculated before they changed to this 500 scoring system. If something could briefly summarize how it translates, that would be quite helpful!

504 is about a 27 on the old MCAT.

 

[The kitchen sink]

504 is about a 27 on the old MCAT.

Thank you for the clarification

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Basically all of my M1 class passed their classes this year, and some of them definitely should not have. Makes me worried for standardized board exams. Our school definitely inflates grades to ensure students pass.

Don't worry they will probably need to pass a COMSAE first before they let them take Level 1. Also, it's not really that hard to pass a board exam. I mean it takes a lot studying and good exam taking skills to do really well (550+), but 94-96% of people that take it pass on the first try. That means passing is about 6th percentile or less.

 

[Neopolymath]

An hour a day outside of actual learning or an hour a day total? Because if it’s the latter, it would be really difficult to even just cover all the material in a block before the exams.

I was mostly commenting on doing far better than most people in the class that were definitely studying way, way longer. I have a problem with admissions mostly selecting undergrad tryhards to be frank. It's part of what's leading to unhealthy mental health in medicine.

I don't know what I averaged time wise but it wasn't much. It was definitely 1-2 hours a day many days of the week aside from maybe doing some lecture on 2x. Had so much free time during didactic compared to working and essentially never studied Friday night to Sunday unless right before an exam/boards and to do less than an hour of anki since day 1. I was shocked given the reputation of med school. I say this because admissions seems to favor the hardest undergrad workers which I think is silly and created this weak minded drone medical culture we have now.

I believe the initial point was that an art major who didn't study much is cut out for school and that with the right attitude they will do better than many DO students who are mostly just succeeding completely on brute force. I tend to agree and lived it to success. That hypothetical art major could also try a little harder when it made sense to do so in med school. I believe everyone at school has met people that study legit 10x more than others and do worse. 1 hr versus 8 hrs 2 hours versus 9 hours? Idk but I disagree in experience and conceptually that the one who studied 8/9 hours is going to blanket perform better as was stated.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I was mostly commenting on doing far better than most people in the class that were definitely studying way, way longer. I have a problem with admissions mostly selecting undergrad tryhards to be frank. It's part of what's leading to unhealthy mental health in medicine.

I don't know what I averaged time wise but it wasn't much. It was definitely 1-2 hours a day many days of the week aside from maybe doing some lecture on 2x. Had so much free time during didactic compared to working and essentially never studied Friday night to Sunday unless right before an exam/boards and to do less than an hour of anki since day 1. I was shocked given the reputation of med school. I say this because admissions seems to favor the hardest undergrad workers which I think is silly and created this weak minded drone medical culture we have now.

I believe the initial point was that an art major who didn't study much is cut out for school and that with the right attitude they will do better than many DO students who are mostly just succeeding completely on brute force. I tend to agree and lived it to success. That hypothetical art major could also try a little harder when it made sense to do so in med school. I believe everyone at school has met people that study legit 10x more than others and do worse. 1 hr versus 8 hrs 2 hours versus 9 hours? Idk but I disagree in experience and conceptually that the one who studied 8/9 hours is going to blanket perform better as was stated.

Well you’re definitely an exception then. An hour or two a day wouldn’t even get you through all the material for the exams at my school, so you’d literally be doing amazing on exams without looking at half the material at all. I don’t think most people who do that will do better than the person who studies most of the day.

But in general I agree that studying for longer doesn’t necessarily mean performing better.

 

[mwsapphire]

It appears that 90 students actually entered the match, and 2 of them didn’t find a spot. If their class size is larger than 90, then those people failed or remediated etc. Pretty self explanatory.

Isn't one failure or one remediation something that can be overcome though? It's hard to imagine one mistake barring you from matching.

 

[benruitz98]

Isn't one failure or one remediation something that can be overcome though? It's hard to imagine one mistake barring you from matching.

One failure doesn't define anyone. A lot of people fail. 15/150 repeated first year at my buddy's school and most of them matched. It does add a red flag but as long as everything else checks out then it's fine.

Someone can have no failures, a 230 Step 1 and but bomb all 10 interviews and fail to match vs someone with a remediation, 210 step 1, but kills 3 interviews and matches. Look at the whole package.

 

[mwsapphire]

One failure doesn't define anyone. A lot of people fail. 15/150 repeated first year at my buddy's school and most of them matched. It does add a red flag but as long as everything else checks out then it's fine.

Someone can have no failures, a 230 Step 1 and but bomb all 10 interviews and fail to match vs someone with a remediation, 210 step 1, but kills 3 interviews and matches. Look at the whole package.

The post I quoted implied that all the folks who didn't match " failed or remediated" which didn't make sense to me lol

 

[benruitz98]

The post I quoted implied that all the folks who didn't match " failed or remediated" which didn't make sense to me lol

OP was saying that if 100 or 150 or whatever number above 90, those people flunked out for various reasons or got pushed back a year (remediating). 90 submitted an ERAS application and 88 matched

Similar to how say 1800 might join the class of 2024 for SGU but only 1000 might enter the match (survive to 4th year) and then only 930 match (usually 600 match, 300 SOAP).

 

[drstranger]

The post I quoted implied that all the folks who didn't match " failed or remediated" which didn't make sense to me

the post you originally quoted was explaining why the class size year 1 was different than the number that matched 4 years later

 

[mwsapphire]

OP was saying that if 100 or 150 or whatever number above 90, those people flunked out for various reasons or got pushed back a year (remediating). 90 submitted an ERAS application and 88 matched

Similar to how say 1800 might join the class of 2024 for SGU but only 1000 might enter the match (survive to 4th year) and then only 930 match (usually 600 match, 300 SOAP).

the post you originally quoted was explaining why the class size year 1 was different than the number that matched 4 years later

My mistake ! Thanku for explaining

 

[El-Rami]

As stated before, 98% is actually a pretty good match rate. A better question is what percentage of those who matched had to find a position via SOAP. That would be more revealing, if you are able to find that information.

 

[Neopolymath]

As stated before, 98% is actually a pretty good match rate. A better question is what percentage of those who matched had to find a position via SOAP. That would be more revealing, if you are able to find that information.

Quit conflating soaping with matching. It's not the same and schools use the term matching incorrectly to hide how many in their class soaped.

If you matched, you didn't soap so there is no "percentage of those who matched had to find a position via soap."

 

[El-Rami]

Quit conflating soaping with matching. It's not the same and schools use the term matching incorrectly to hide how many in their class soaped.

If you matched, you didn't soap so there is no "percentage of those who matched had to find a position via soap."

Oh, I agree with you. It's just that I use the schools' nomenclature even if I disagree with it.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

anyone know how many matchd wih SOAP for william carey. Really wanna know the percent

Dean said 90% “matched without soap” and the rest were soap/outside soap. So above the national average for matched percentage.