Withdrawing from UMICH for the following reasons...???

[TroubleTheCat]

I wondered if anyone is seriously considering withdrawing their acceptance offer from the University of Michigan for any of the following reasons:
-Michigan's economy is in shambles (on the verge of depression)
-lousy weather
-horrible parking situation
-apartments are very expensive and in poor condition
-research is emphasized far more than medical education
-elitist attitudes of the student body (who seem to be very dorky)
-elitist attitudes of administrative staff, clinicians, faculty
-the affirmative action debacle

Any other reasons why you may have reservations about UMICH please list them...I used to be an undergrad at U of M and I wonder if people from other schools who interviewed here really know more about this institution beyond what USNEWS might tell you.

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[Mr. Tee]

-elitist attitudes of the student body (who seem to be very dorky)

I heard that's true for UM premeds but not med students.

 

[DoctorPLASTIC]

I wondered if anyone is seriously considering withdrawing their acceptance offer from the University of Michigan for any of the following reasons:
-Michigan's economy is in shambles (on the verge of depression)
-lousy weather
-horrible parking situation
-apartments are very expensive and in poor condition
-research is emphasized far more than medical education
-elitist attitudes of the student body (who seem to be very dorky)
-elitist attitudes of administrative staff, clinicians, faculty
-the affirmative action debacle

Any other reasons why you may have reservations about UMICH please list them...I used to be an undergrad at U of M and I wonder if people from other schools who interviewed here really know more about this institution beyond what USNEWS might tell you.

That was my reason. Hard to turn down the scholarship though.

 

[flyingdutchman]

I wondered if anyone is seriously considering withdrawing their acceptance offer from the University of Michigan for any of the following reasons:
-Michigan's economy is in shambles (on the verge of depression)
-lousy weather
-horrible parking situation
-apartments are very expensive and in poor condition
-research is emphasized far more than medical education
-elitist attitudes of the student body (who seem to be very dorky)
-elitist attitudes of administrative staff, clinicians, faculty
-the affirmative action debacle

Any other reasons why you may have reservations about UMICH please list them...I used to be an undergrad at U of M and I wonder if people from other schools who interviewed here really know more about this institution beyond what USNEWS might tell you.

I just want to say I agree with every one of these points. As a UMich undergrad, I can say I'm getting the heck out of this weather and away from the environment at Michigan. It is still a good school despite all these things however, and I know a lot of students that love it. You just have to figure out if it's the type of environment you want to be in.

 

[TroubleTheCat]

That was my reason. Hard to turn down the scholarship though.

yeah, it's a tough call. I happen to be ok with the weather in Michigan, but for a lot of people it can be very, very depressing (maybe I've just been used to it for so long that it's now part of the same old routine). Though it always amazes me how many people come from California to go to Michigan for undergrad.

 

[TroubleTheCat]

I heard that's true for UM premeds but not med students.

I don't know...they seemed very dorky and elitist when I interviewed there.

 

[TroubleTheCat]

I just want to say I agree with every one of these points. As a UMich undergrad, I can say I'm getting the heck out of this weather and away from the environment at Michigan. It is still a good school despite all these things however, and I know a lot of students that love it. You just have to figure out if it's the type of environment you want to be in.

Cool, good for you. It could be that we are being too hard on our alma mater because we have the inside scoop on its pros and cons. Some of these things may be frivolous to others, but I happen to like the idea of ample parking and inexpensive good quality housing that other schools offer (among many other things). If I am going to spend the next 4 years somewhere for medical school I sure want to have better, cheaper housing than what Ann Arbor offers and I don't want to worry about a police force that is hell-bent on writing as many parking tickets as they possibly can.

 

[freetheyaz]

I felt the whole town was way too 'undergraduate' oriented...of course, I went during the football game vs Ohio State, and I come from New England (where we don't dedicate our lives to local college football...I mean, I saw a house with a big red O painted on the roof!). Undergrad was many years ago for me, and I did not feel like going somewhere and reliving it.

 

[crimsonkid85]

i don't understand how local economics have to do with your decision to attend a med school? it's only a commitment of 4 years, and i can't see how this can impact your decision as much as any of the other criteria? (housing, parking, the school itself, standard of living..etc)

 

[TroubleTheCat]

I felt the whole town was way too 'undergraduate' oriented...of course, I went during the football game vs Ohio State, and I come from New England (where we don't dedicate our lives to local college football...I mean, I saw a house with a big red O painted on the roof!). Undergrad was many years ago for me, and I did not feel like going somewhere and reliving it.

That is definitely a valid criticism of the University of Michigan. The entire campus is essentially centralized in such a way that it is very hard to escape the undergrads (the medical school is ~50 yards away from the largest set of dormatories on campus). On the other hand I bet there are some people out there who want to go to a medical school where they can be proud to cheer for a football team that is excellent (usually...).

 

[thesmartazz]

I thought that the housing around UMich was pretty affordable (?) based on what I heard at my interview. Can Ann Arbor really be that expensive relative places like NYC, Boston, and even New Haven? If the economy is so bad, wouldn't housing prices follow the downward trend?

Anyway, I'm not going to be able to go to second look weekend, so if you guys could please expand on these reasons and give more warrants for them, I'd appreciate it!

 

[TroubleTheCat]

i don't understand how local economics have to do with your decision to attend a med school? it's only a commitment of 4 years, and i can't see how this can impact your decision as much as any of the other criteria? (housing, parking, the school itself, standard of living..etc)

I didn't put it at the top of the list because it is the #1 criticism (the list wasn't in any particular order), but you will find that many people who are faculty clinicians at U of M went there for medical school, residency and fellowship (if applicable). So if it is your desire to go to a medical school and stay there for your residency and practice medicine in the state of Michigan, then I think you need to be cognizant of Michigan's economic trends (which are all, unfortunately, heading downwards). Drastic measures could be taken by the governor if things get bad enough that could seriously impact your life if you want to stay in Michigan and practice medicine. But if you are like many people who take their education and run with it (far, far away from Michigan) then you will probably be ok.

Keep in mind, however, that the operations of the University of Michigan are highly dependent on state funding (being a public university) and the governor had been cutting funding for higher education quite a bit to try to balance the state's budget. This could lead to higher tuition rates, a tight squeeze on the hospital's operations, a tight squeeze on student resources available, etc. You can use your own imagination in thinking of the consequences if things get so bad for the state of Michigan that the governor is forced to drastically cut funding for the University of Michigan. It sure makes other medical schools look a lot more attractive.

 

[GoSprout24]

To play devil's advocate, and because I think these are sort of overly-harsh statements... please let me respond. Just for perspective... I am a 4th year med student here at UM.

-Michigan's economy is in shambles (on the verge of depression): Ok, yeah, the economy does not have the brightest outlook what with the car companies and now Pfizer closing... but on the verge of depression? Hmm. Also, unless you have a significant other that 1) needs to work for said car companies, or 2) needs to work for said pharmaceutical... this really won't affect you in the slightest. You, afterall, will be in school full-time -- not working.

-lousy weather: Ok, this is probably the only point I won't argue... If you decide to come to Michigan, you need to know what you're getting into. Though, the summers are beautiful...

-horrible parking situation: This completely depends on your perspective. Is parking here worse than the rural town that I grew up in? Yes. Is parking here worse than NYC, the Bay Area, LA, etc, etc, etc? Absolutely not. People make a big deal about the parking bc hospital parking is a bit limited, but the vast majority of us simply live without walking distance of the hospital (easily feasible), thus parking is a total non-issue. For those that need to drive to the hospital, it may be inconvenient, but they buy a pass, they make it work. Parking around town is fine. If you can't find a metered spot, you park in a lot. Most of them charge 40 cents/hour. Whoop dee doo.

-apartments are very expensive and in poor condition: Again, a little perspective... Expensive compared to what? I agree with the poor condition if you live in the undergrad area -- I looked at those apartments when I initially moved here and wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole. Most of us that live in town live in either Island Drive, Med Center Court, Riverhouse Condos, Nielson Court Square, or somewhere in Kerrytown -- all of which are within walking distance to the hospital. I pay $430 for my half of a standard, clean 2 bedroom. Pick any east or west coast city or Chicago, and I'd probably be paying over $700 for this. If you're willing to pay a little more, you can get an even nicer place in either Riverhouse or Nielson. Or live out of town and deal with the parking issue -- like I said, it's kind of a hassle, but obviously do-able since so many people in my class have survived it.

-research is emphasized far more than medical education: I don't really know where this comes from. It's just another stereotype of "big research universities". Never once have I been asked why I've never done any research in medical school. I'm asked to evaluate the education I'm getting about monthly.

-elitist attitudes of the student body (who seem to be very dorky): I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion. After 4 years being a part of this "student body", though, I wholeheartedly disagree. We can agree to disagree.

-elitist attitudes of administrative staff, clinicians, faculty: See above comment. Replace "being a part of this student body" with "working with the staff, clinicians, and faculty".

-the affirmative action debacle: Yeah, the Aff Action bill is a sore spot for most of us. All I can say is that I ensure you that the medical school and administration is 100% devoted to diversity (of all kinds) and will do their absolute best to work within the confines of the law to encourage and promote diversity within our medical school and broader community. I think the University is also taking the state to court to fight this one... but that may just be a rumor. Anyway, while I think the bill is horrible, I'm also not sure this is a reason to not attend our medical school.

This all said -- there are hundreds of wonderful medical schools out there, so if you don't think that UMich is the school for you -- then please, don't come here and be bitter and unhappy for 4 years. Go somewhere you'll be happy. I just wanted to post to voice the opposite opinion as I disagree with most of the initial comments... but like I said, we can definitely agree to disagree and that is fine.

Best of luck to everyone! You all have a wonderful decision to make, and you cannot go wrong. For those of you that would like to go to UMich, you're in for a fabulous treat. For those of you that decide to go elsewhere, I am positive that you will love it there as well. It's a win-win situation!

 

[TroubleTheCat]

To play devil's advocate, and because I think these are sort of overly-harsh statements... please let me respond. Just for perspective... I am a 4th year med student here at UM.

-Michigan's economy is in shambles (on the verge of depression): Ok, yeah, the economy does not have the brightest outlook what with the car companies and now Pfizer closing... but on the verge of depression? Hmm. Also, unless you have a significant other that 1) needs to work for said car companies, or 2) needs to work for said pharmaceutical... this really won't affect you in the slightest. You, afterall, will be in school full-time -- not working.

-lousy weather: Ok, this is probably the only point I won't argue... If you decide to come to Michigan, you need to know what you're getting into. Though, the summers are beautiful...

-horrible parking situation: This complete depends on your perspective. Is parking here worse than the rural town that I grew up in? Yes. Is parking here worse than NYC, the Bay Area, LA, etc, etc, etc? Absolutely not. People make a big deal about the parking bc hospital parking is a bit limited, but the vast majority of us simply live without walking distance of the hospital (easily feasible), thus parking is a total non-issue. For those that need to drive to the hospital, it may be inconvenient, but they buy a pass, they make it work. Parking around town is fine. If you can't find a metered spot, you park in a lot. Most of them charge 40 cents/hour. Whoop dee doo.

-apartments are very expensive and in poor condition: Again, a little perspective... Expensive compared to what? I agree with the poor condition if you live in the undergrad area -- I looked at those apartments when I initially moved here and wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole. Most of us that live in town live in either Island Drive, Med Center Court, Riverhouse Condos, Nielson Court Square, or somewhere in Kerrytown -- all of which are within walking distane to the hospital. I pay $460 for my half of a standard, clean 2 bedroom. Pick any east or west coast city or Chicago, and I'd probably be paying over $700 for this. If you're willing to pay a little more, you can get an even nicer place in either Riverhouse or Nielson. Or live out of town and deal with the parking issue -- like I said, it's kind of a hassle, but obviously do-able since so many people in my class have survived it.

-research is emphasized far more than medical education: I don't really know where this comes from. It's just another stereotype of "big research universities". Never once have I been asked why I've never done any research in medical school. I'm asked to evaluate the education I'm getting about monthly.

-elitist attitudes of the student body (who seem to be very dorky): I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion. After 4 years being a part of this "student body", though, I wholeheartedly disagree. We can agree to disagree.

-elitist attitudes of administrative staff, clinicians, faculty: See above comment. Replace "being a part of this student body" with "working with the staff, clinicians, and faculty".

-the affirmative action debacle: Yeah, the Aff Action bill is a sore spot for most of us. All I can say is that I ensure you that the medical school and administration is 100% devoted to diversity (of all kinds) and will do their absolute best to work within the confines of the law to encourage and promote diversity within our medical school and broader community. I think the University is also taking the state to court to fight this one... but that may just be a rumor. Anyway, while I think the bill is horrible, I'm also not sure this is a reason to not attend our medical school.

This all said -- there are hundreds of wonderful medical schools out there, so if you don't think that UMich is the school for you -- then please, don't come here and be bitter and unhappy for 4 years. Go somewhere you'll be happy. I just wanted to post to voice the opposite opinion as I disagree with most of the initial comments... but like I said, we can definitely agree to disagree and that is fine.

Best of luck to everyone! You all have a wonderful decision to make, and you cannot go wrong. For those of you that would like to go to UMich, you're in for a fabulous treat. For those of you that decide to go elsewhere, I am positive that you will love it there as well. It's a win-win situation!

We can certainly agree to disagree. I'm happy you are happy at U of M. Having lived here for my entire life and going to undergrad here, having had both my older brothers who went here for undergrad, the fact that I have worked here for the last 25% of my life (in the medical school for medical doctors), the fact that my brothers and I have several friends who are current and former medical students of U of M, I think I have a valid perspective that probably even you don't have and I am eager to share it with people who may be on the fence with regards to attending UofM vs. somewhere else. My honest opinion is that you are so proud to be at a "top-tier school" like U of M that it doesn't matter how crappy everything else about U of M may be and you are willing to look past those things to trumpet U of M's reputation (which makes you look good in the end).

And honestly U of M is not even close to being at the same level as all those other schools in NYC and Boston so it is not a valid comparison (and frankly, how dare a city like Ann Arbor extort its students for housing and parking? Especially now that Pfizer has moved out, the University of Michigan is the only thing driving Ann Arbor's economy...which honestly is exactly why Ann Arbor can afford to extort students for housing and parking).

 

[TroubleTheCat]

I thought that the housing around UMich was pretty affordable (?) based on what I heard at my interview. Can Ann Arbor really be that expensive relative places like NYC, Boston, and even New Haven? If the economy is so bad, wouldn't housing prices follow the downward trend?

Anyway, I'm not going to be able to go to second look weekend, so if you guys could please expand on these reasons and give more warrants for them, I'd appreciate it!

U of M housing is really crappy and expensive and it will always stay that way (no matter how bad the economy gets) because the prices are artificially inflated due to the fact that the University is the only thing that drives Ann Arbor's economy (especially now that Pfizer is gone). That means that Ann Arbor landlords are guaranteed a steady supply of people who are willing to pay a ton of money for rent (because they have no other choice). As a result you get very high rent rates for little, itty, bitty, tiny apartments that are in a state of disrepair (and the landlords are unwilling to do anything about it). At least in NYC and Boston you get all the great things that come with a pricey apartment in the big city. Ann Arbor has nothing (except the university...ofcourse)

 

[GoSprout24]

My honest opinion is that you are so proud to be at a "top-tier school" like U of M that it doesn't matter how crappy everything else about U of M may be and you are willing to look past those things to trumpet U of M's reputation (which makes you look good in the end).

Um, ok. Thanks for the blatant personal attack. That's awesome.

I'm out... Best of luck everyone with your decision!!

 

[Stolenspatulas]

That was my reason. Hard to turn down the scholarship though.

You're going to turn down a full-ride to UMich to pay for USC. are you kidding me?

Is lousy weather really worth 200K + indebtedness?

 

[thesmartazz]

-the affirmative action debacle: Yeah, the Aff Action bill is a sore spot for most of us. All I can say is that I ensure you that the medical school and administration is 100% devoted to diversity (of all kinds) and will do their absolute best to work within the confines of the law to encourage and promote diversity within our medical school and broader community. I think the University is also taking the state to court to fight this one... but that may just be a rumor. Anyway, while I think the bill is horrible, I'm also not sure this is a reason to not attend our medical school.

Is anyone else afraid that Prop. 2 will do in Michigan what the AA ban did in California? UMich has been such a strong proponent of considering race/ethnicity in the admissions process, and I am really worried about the diversity of incoming classes if Proposition 2 sticks.

 

[Lorienne7]

You're going to turn down a full-ride to UMich to pay for USC. are you kidding me?

Is lousy weather really worth 200K + indebtedness?

Sigh, ignore Plastic. He's a troll that just keeps coming back. Michigan hasn't even made scholarship decisions yet.

OP, though your other points might have some validity, I did not get an elitist vibe from Michigan at all. In fact, one of the things that most impressed me about Michigan was the fact that everyone I met (applicants, med students, faculty, admissions staff) was so refreshingly friendly and down-to-earth.

 

[TroubleTheCat]

Sigh, ignore Plastic. He's a troll that just keeps coming back. Michigan hasn't even made scholarship decisions yet.

OP, though your other points might have some validity, I did not get an elitist vibe from Michigan at all. In fact, one of the things that most impressed me about Michigan was the fact that everyone I met (applicants, med students, faculty, admissions staff) was so refreshingly friendly and down-to-earth.

Do you think they would be anything but friendly and down-to-earth in front of people they are recruiting??? I don't think so. People that go to Michigan have the "Harvard Mentality" big time because Michigan is all about promoting their big, bad "top-tier status" and it rubs off on its students. It is a real shame.

 

[TroubleTheCat]

Um, ok. Thanks for the blatant personal attack. That's awesome.

I'm out... Best of luck everyone with your decision!!

Hey, don't take it personally...You tried to build up your credibility (the fact that you are an M4 at U of M) but I say that gives you less credibility because you are "one of them" and I would not expect you or any of your classmates to publicly tarnish the University of Michigan Medical School's reputation (because that would, in turn, harm your reputation). I have heard plenty of valid knocks on the University of Michigan Medical School from current and former students during private discussions I have had with them so I know where my facts come from.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

Here'$ lou$y weather for you. Look at that million dollar $mile. what a $ellout.

 

[Auron]

Here'$ lou$y weather for you. Look at that million dollar $mile. what a $ellout.

dude..thats my hero. Seriously, I'm going to be his replacement.

 

[juls811]

OP...you know you'd go if you had the choice...

 

[TroubleTheCat]

OP...you know you'd go if you had the choice...

Only if I could take you with me

 

[juls811]

Yeah, yeah.

 

[TroubleTheCat]

Yeah, yeah.

But don't try to turn the focus of discussion on me...this is not about me, this is about Michigan and whether it really deserves the respect that so many people willingly give it (often based on little more than a usnews ranking that doesn't mean squat). It is so incredibly difficult to really get to know a school before you end up going there and I wish more people who have valid perspectives and criticisms of these schools would step up to the plate and share what they know. That way people can decide for themselves based on all the facts that are on the table.

 

[TroubleTheCat]

Yeah, yeah.

Given what you know and your perspective do you disagree with what I've been saying?

 

[opusthecat]

From the perspective of having been a graduate student at U of M medical school I have to say that my opinions were much closer to those of GoSprout. Sure, the weather isn't great, but I did not find housing to be poor quality or overly expensive. Why does the economy matter if you're only a student? Sure, lots of people spend their entire careers at U of M but that's a choice. It's not like you don't have the opportunity to go elsewhere after medical school. The faculty and students that I knew were for the most part down to earth and laid back.

 

[TroubleTheCat]

From the perspective of having been a graduate student at U of M medical school I have to say that my opinions were much closer to those of GoSprout. Sure, the weather isn't great, but I did not find housing to be poor quality or overly expensive. Why does the economy matter if you're only a student? Sure, lots of people spend their entire careers at U of M but that's a choice. It's not like you don't have the opportunity to go elsewhere after medical school. The faculty and students that I knew were for the most part down to earth and laid back.

Where did you live? The "student ghetto"? The "white coat ghetto"? Or extremely far away from campus which is the cheapest option (cheapest 1-bedroom apartment is ~$700/month...pretty lousy for a place like Ann Arbor!) And most of these places absolutely are poor quality (especially given what you are forced to pay for them). And yes the economy does matter to everyone...especially students (see my previous posts on this subject...especially related to the governor's funding cuts for higher education and what it can do for the students...in-state tuition for undergraduates alone was raised by $1000 last year because of these funding cuts! A 12% increase! But maybe this didn't impact you if you were a GSI or received a research stipend...). And yes I acknowledge that you can get a residency anywhere outside of Michigan (which I'm sure will be a growing trend given the state of Michigan's economy). Finally, just as an example of the elitist attitude that is prevalant in the University of Michigan Medical School, think back to what Dr. Gay (the Dean of Admissions) said on interview day. The first remarks that came from his mouth (after good morning) were "We are a top-tier medical school" and the bulk of what he said throughout his entire speech was how big and bad the University of Michigan is and how you can look around the room and find people from Harvard, Yale, etc. Of the 9 other places I interviewed I never encountered such arrogance to the extent where a dean of admissions would brag so much about being a "top-tier medical school". Then the admissions director chimes in and basically brags about being a "top-tier medical school" for another large chunk of time. Just an example...but I'm sure they are more down-to-earth under normal circumstances...

 

[maestro1625]

let's not forget too, that they produced this guy...

...fictionally at least.

 

[Phaselee]

If you have so many negative things to say about michigan...why would you even apply here? Sounds like a waste of money for you in my opinion... in defense of umich, every school has there own little "problems" I guess-Wash U appears to put precedence on MCAT and GPA, New Haven and Baltimore are not the nicest places to live-The fact that the dean wanted to promote Michigan's status as one of the top 5 residency director ranked schools seems ok to me considering few people pay the money to US News so that they can actually see all R.D. rankings.

 

[TroubleTheCat]

If you have so many negative things to say about michigan...why would you even apply here? Sounds like a waste of money for you in my opinion... in defense of umich, every school has there own little "problems" I guess-Wash U appears to put precedence on MCAT and GPA, New Haven and Baltimore are not the nicest places to live-The fact that the dean wanted to promote Michigan's status as one of the top 5 residency director ranked schools seems ok to me considering few people pay the money to US News so that they can actually see all R.D. rankings.

This isn't about me. I've been accepted to my top choice medical school. I merely wish to inform people about these "little problems" that U of M has because it may be important for them to know what they are. That way they can make a better informed decision. But, if they are like you and they were sold, hook, line, and sinker by U of M medical school's marketing ploys (such as usnews rankings and the typical "early clinical exposure" b.s.) then yeah maybe this information doesn't matter to them or to you. And Wash U isn't the only medical school that puts precendence on MCAT and GPA (why do you think U of M gives automatic interview invites to people with MCAT and GPA scores above the mean of their previous year's incoming class?...another marketing ploy because they know if they are perceived by usnews to have a very high selectivity...based on the average MCAT and GPA scores they boast for their incoming class...then they will be ranked higher among other medical schools).

 

[cowme]

This isn't about me. I've been accepted to my top choice medical school.

It seems to me you are trying to make this whole thread about you and you are just trying to badmouth the University as a whole because of a personal problem you have with it...What's the matter? Couldn't get enough play as an undergrad? Is that why you are becoming a doc? I don't think you realize how many people would absolutely KILL to go to UMich for medical school. I don't care what you say, but the teaching and training provided at Michigan's medical school is deserving of its reputation. So what if the weather is cold? Is that going to effect how much you learn? So what if the students on your interview day seemed dorky? You think you are going to be with kids who party all the time at your "top choice medical school?" Out of all your reasons for withdrawing your acceptance, you haven't mentioned ONE thing about the medical school itself, only the surrounding atmosphere. So, by all means, withdraw, it seems like you have your mind made up anyways and just want to badmouth your alma mater.

 

[p9142]

Did everyone forget about this tool:

In all seriousness, the weather was a huge factor for me.

 

[gary5]

Since you have a long list of reasons not to go, I'd choose another school.

 

[GoBlueMD83]

Just to introduce myself into this discussion, I was an undergrad at Michigan, came in from out of state (suburban Chicago), and I'm considering heading back there for med school (I graduated last year, and I'm now living in Chicago).

Sure, that state of Michigan's economy can't compare to California or New York City, but you can't just say that because Pfizer decided to leave A2, that UM will become a **** school and that the city, university, and area will have an economic freefall along with the rest of the state.
http://www.annarborspark.org/media/files/ght_google_plan_7-13-06.pdf Google is moving in, and other companies know that Ann Arbor is a great place to live and would make their employees happy and productive. Ann Arbor is a great town, and will continue to be.

With regard to Michigan's economic status and its impact on the university I served on student government during undergrad, and was present for more than a couple budget meetings with the University Administration during budget shortfalls. UM is well-insulated from budget shortfalls from the state. It has a huge endowment, and other sources of revenue that aren't obvious to most.

Also, sure, there is some ****ty housing on campus. In the Student Ghetto south of the main campus, (not the white coat ghetto as far as I know/have heard), there are terrible landlords who charge a relative arm and a leg to live in a ****hole. There are also fair landlords who take good care of their tenants (my landlord senior year). There is some really nice housing too, that isnt terribly expensive. Just because the undergrad housing is dumpy, doesn't mean the grad housing is dumpy. Can I generalize here and say that grad students mostly set a higher bar of living for themselves than undergrads? Just because you lived in "The Pit" (PCU reference, anyone?) doesn't mean itll be that way for med school.

Ann Arbor is one of the nicest places to live in the US. Just because it isn't a huge city on one of the coasts, doesn't mean its a stupid podunk Midwestern town that costs relatively nothing to live in. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4625179/
Living and rent costs money. Ann Arbor is cheaper to live in than many major cities, but its a safe, intellectually vibrant, and the school districts here are among the best in the nation. Good schools drive up property values and rents.

U of Michigan is not an elitist place, at least when you compare it to the snobbery you'd get out of many of the Ivies. Elitist compared to Michigan State and Ohio State, sure, fine. But it is a top-tier school. Maybe if Dr. Gay had said "We are the best medical school in the country", on interview day and talked **** about a bunch of other places, then maybe I could see your point.

My theory, TroubleTheCat, is that because you came out of UM undergrad, you were just itching for reasons to leave and give up cheaper tuition and a great school. Staying in the same place for undergrad and med school when it isnt a big city is a hard thing to swallow, I know, because I'm dealing with this decision right now. But to all of you reading this thread, don't take someone's advice who is sick of Ann Arbor and is ready to leave having already done it for four years. They are likely looking for any negatives to justify leaving Michigan.

TroubleTheCat, From your tone, you seem that you have decided against going to Michigan for your own reasons from your own perspective, and thats fine. Go somewhere else. But don't force your subjective opinions down the throats of the rest of us here on SDN who are still actively thinking about going to Michigan. Its a great place, and I hope all of you reading this don't get scared away by bitter UM undergrads looking for greener grass, on the other side of the fence.

Of course, given my UserCP, I liked Michigan. But I just wanted to present a perspective of someone who went there from outside michigan, left, and is strongly considering returning. Its a great place to live.

 

[flyingdutchman]

Is anyone else bothered by the fact that the class of the University of MICHIGAN is comprised of less than half in state students? It seems that the purpose of a state school is to cater somewhat to in state students. MSU and Wayne both have 70-80% in state admittance. Michigan admits students with high stats from good undergrad schools to make themselves look better and to improve its learning environment I understand. But then most of these students go back to CA or NY or wherever they're from and don't even practice near Michigan. If Michigan wants to be the "Harvard of the midwest" it should become a private school. I'm just speaking out here as someone who went to UMich for undergrad, who's first choice was UofM, am from Michigan and I was waitlisted...

 

[TroubleTheCat]

It seems to me you are trying to make this whole thread about you and you are just trying to badmouth the University as a whole because of a personal problem you have with it...What's the matter? Couldn't get enough play as an undergrad? Is that why you are becoming a doc? I don't think you realize how many people would absolutely KILL to go to UMich for medical school. I don't care what you say, but the teaching and training provided at Michigan's medical school is deserving of its reputation. So what if the weather is cold? Is that going to effect how much you learn? So what if the students on your interview day seemed dorky? You think you are going to be with kids who party all the time at your "top choice medical school?" Out of all your reasons for withdrawing your acceptance, you haven't mentioned ONE thing about the medical school itself, only the surrounding atmosphere. So, by all means, withdraw, it seems like you have your mind made up anyways and just want to badmouth your alma mater.

Struck a nerve did I??? If you are so offended that I am pointing out the flaws of a school I know very well then maybe for the sake of keeping your blood pressure down you should stick to reading the funny pages.

Did I get enough play as an undergrad? I don't know, maybe you should consult your mamma on that one.

 

[TroubleTheCat]

Since you have a long list of reasons not to go, I'd choose another school.

Thanks for the advice Dr. Phil.

 

[TroubleTheCat]

Really? Did I force my opinion down your throat? I had no idea that what I was doing was tying you down to a chair, holding your eyelids open with a gun pointed at your head as I made you read my posts. I'm sorry for all the suffering I caused you. Next time I will be a little more careful before the anti-free speech gestapo (with you as their leader) comes crashing down on my head.

 

[Phaselee]

The dutchman has a point about the lower proportion of students from the state of Michigan actually being admitted to UMICH...I think that the university does its best to admit the best students...and many of them come from outside Michigan...I know at my interview day (early automatic) there were very few UM or even Michigan residents there, which kind of made me lose a little pride in my undergrad considering that we send so many kids to med school. And I absolutely hate that "michigan, the harvard of the midwest" shirt....if you want to be at Harvard then ****ing go there

 

[opusthecat]

Where did you live? The "student ghetto"? The "white coat ghetto"? Or extremely far away from campus which is the cheapest option (cheapest 1-bedroom apartment is ~$700/month...pretty lousy for a place like Ann Arbor!) And most of these places absolutely are poor quality (especially given what you are forced to pay for them). And yes the economy does matter to everyone...especially students (see my previous posts on this subject...especially related to the governor's funding cuts for higher education and what it can do for the students...in-state tuition for undergraduates alone was raised by $1000 last year because of these funding cuts! A 12% increase! But maybe this didn't impact you if you were a GSI or received a research stipend...). And yes I acknowledge that you can get a residency anywhere outside of Michigan (which I'm sure will be a growing trend given the state of Michigan's economy). Finally, just as an example of the elitist attitude that is prevalant in the University of Michigan Medical School, think back to what Dr. Gay (the Dean of Admissions) said on interview day. The first remarks that came from his mouth (after good morning) were "We are a top-tier medical school" and the bulk of what he said throughout his entire speech was how big and bad the University of Michigan is and how you can look around the room and find people from Harvard, Yale, etc. Of the 9 other places I interviewed I never encountered such arrogance to the extent where a dean of admissions would brag so much about being a "top-tier medical school". Then the admissions director chimes in and basically brags about being a "top-tier medical school" for another large chunk of time. Just an example...but I'm sure they are more down-to-earth under normal circumstances...

I did live in the white-coat ghetto for a couple of years. It was a little overpriced for the quality but the proximity to the med school does make it much more convenient and worth a little extra in my opinion. I definitely would NOT recommend living in the undergrad ghetto. That is a dump. For me it was best living a few miles away from campus and biking into school. I had a huge place for the same price and lived next to a disc golf course. (Nothing better than playing two rounds of disc golf a day when writing your thesis). U of M provides great financial support. Perhaps a poor state economy could affect this a little, but when I was there the state was in a big budget crisis and the medical school kept building huge new research buildings. I admit that the emphasis on UMich being a top tier school was a bit over the top at the interview, but they were trying to recruit people. I did not experience this on a regular basis when I was in school there. And it is a good school. My impression from the interview is that there biggest strength is the training they provide during clinical years. They are really committed to it and it is why they have a good rep with PDs.

 

[SpartyFan]

You guys are all on crack. I would walk from michigan to california and back just to go to this school.

 

[GoBlueMD83]

Really? Did I force my opinion down your throat? I had no idea that what I was doing was tying you down to a chair, holding your eyelids open with a gun pointed at your head as I made you read my posts. I'm sorry for all the suffering I caused you. Next time I will be a little more careful before the anti-free speech gestapo (with you as their leader) comes crashing down on my head.

TTC- The shoving down the throat comment was a over the top, and I apologize for it. But don't make people feel like idiots or elitist snobs for going to Michigan because its a good school. Care to actually address/rebut any of my other statements instead of defensively slinging insults?

Every med school, university, and city has its positives and its negatives, and of course different people who spend 4 years anywhere are going to have good things and bad things to say about any given place.

Michigan's admissions office/"Marketing Machine" isn't making something out of nothing. You're not exposing some sinister group of people who try to trick people to come to Michigan. I have a few friends who are M1s, M2s, and M3s in UMMS now who love it, friends who went there for undergrad, and had options out of state. They were uneasy about staying, but they would make the same decision again if given the chance.

If you're looking for surfing or going bar-hopping every night, Ann Arbor probably isnt for you. But there is a lot to Ann Arbor that makes it a great place to be a student.

Yes, Winter can be depressing sometimes in Michigan. There is ****ty student housing in different parts of campus. State schools have funding issues. I loved going to Michigan, and I know people who love it and would do it all over again. I have friends who wouldn't even apply to Michigan because they wanted to move on. Find out whats right for you.

Well, make your own decisions. Get as many (non-admissions/tour guide)opinions as you can, go to second look weekends. Find out for yourself what the positives and negatives of a school are from people who go there.

 

[maestro1625]

-Michigan's economy is in shambles (on the verge of depression)

yes the state is in a major downturn, and my parents are probably going to leave soon to make more money practicing elsewhere but Ann Arbor itself has a great local economy and doesn't only make Viagra the way that Flint only makes cars.

-lousy weather

you get used to it

-horrible parking situation

Not really. I work at one of the labs at the med center complex and drove to work every day. You just have to be smart about where you park and walk a bit. The construction at Kellogg is a bit of a pain in the ass now though because it kills a good chunk of street parking.

-apartments are very expensive and in poor condition

Expensive, yes. But if you don't do your research and end up in a sorry apartment that's probably your own fault.

-research is emphasized far more than medical education

mabye more than undergrad education, but for the most part you're pulling that out of your ass.

-elitist attitudes of the student body (who seem to be very dorky)

Q: You're at a party. How do you know which people there went to Michigan?
A: Wait five minutes. they'll tell you.

I know a lot of douchebags at/from UMich, but that often comes from people believing their own hype. No different from any other "elite" institution.

-elitist attitudes of administrative staff, clinicians, faculty

Don't know about this. The individual faculty and staff I work with have been great.

-the affirmative action debacle

who the **** cares?

 

[Captain Nemo]

This isn't about me. I've been accepted to my top choice medical school.

So where are you going anyways? Curious to see what you've found that is better, could help shed some light and what you feel Michigan should be like.

 

[kevinp2]

Personally, I think he's a troll holding a waitlist spot...

 

[BetterNBest]

tool box.

Let me preface this by saying that I am currently a Umich undergrad, and have been accepted to several schools more highly ranked than Michigan. The school is not my top choice, and unless they give me a large sum of money, I definitely won't be here next fall. I also agree with your synopsis of Umich med students...

However: I bleed maize and blue. And the fact that you have this ever-present chip on your shoulder is ridiculous. Half the reason that you have the opportunities that you do stems from the fact that you're a Michigan undergrad. When they deliberated over your file at your "top choice" medical school, you'd better believe the fact that you went to Michigan affected their decision. And in case you didn't know, the medical school brings more money to the University's academic programs than any other endeavor. That medical school is partly responsible for the education that you've received.

Show some damn respect.

Either Michigan is your home state, or you're one of the unlucky ones who swallowed the 40,000 a year to come to this GREAT institution. If its your home state, be thankful for this school and what its given you. If not, then realize why you made mommy and daddy pay an arm and a leg for your undergraduate institution specifically so that you could COME here.

Bo would be ashamed that you have the right to call your self a Michigan grad; going around badmouthing your own school like that...shame on you....

 

[BetterNBest]

tool box.

Let me preface this by saying that I am currently a Umich undergrad, and have been accepted to several schools more highly ranked than Michigan. The school is not my top choice, and unless they give me a large sum of money, I definitely won't be here next fall. I also agree with your synopsis of Umich med students...

However: I bleed maize and blue. And the fact that you have this ever-present chip on your shoulder is ridiculous. Half the reason that you have the opportunities that you do stems from the fact that you're a Michigan undergrad. When they deliberated over your file at your "top choice" medical school, you'd better believe the fact that you went to Michigan affected their decision. And in case you didn't know, the medical school brings more money to the University's academic programs than any other endeavor. That medical school is partly responsible for the education that you've received.

Show some damn respect.

Either Michigan is your home state, or you're one of the unlucky ones who swallowed the 40,000 a year to come to this GREAT institution. If its your home state, be thankful for this school and what its given you. If not, then realize why you made mommy and daddy pay an arm and a leg for your undergraduate institution specifically so that you could COME here.

Bo would be ashamed that you have the right to call your self a Michigan grad; going around badmouthing your own school like that...shame on you....