WL movement has been kind of quiet around here.

[3toedsloth]

On May 1, and all this week, I was expecting a torrential downpour of "I GOT ACCEPTED OFF THE WAITLIST!!!!" type posts.

I thought the bulk of waitlist movement happens right after the April 30 "traffic day." Alas, I'm not seeing a whole lot of movement in the school-specific threads, here in the general forum, or on this waitlist tracker from Reddit.

What's up with that?
Am I misinformed?
Is this year unusual?

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[Hobbsyy]

SLU has been sleeping.

 

[LoveBeingHuman:)]

They're probably handpicking individuals from the waitlists

 

[byunprime2]

Hmm... maybe it's so quiet bc adcoms have started selecting for the personality type that wouldn't use SDN

 

[Med Ed]

On May 1, and all this week, I was expecting a torrential downpour of "I GOT ACCEPTED OFF THE WAITLIST!!!!" type posts.

I thought the bulk of waitlist movement happens right after the April 30 "traffic day." Alas, I'm not seeing a whole lot of movement in the school-specific threads, here in the general forum, or on this waitlist tracker from Reddit.

What's up with that?
Am I misinformed?
Is this year unusual?

The AAMC, in its infinite wisdom, decided to hold a GSA meeting in Orlando from April 28-May 1. This meeting was exceptionally well attended because the AAMC, in its infinite wisdom, is ramming through a bunch of unwelcome changes to the application process and folks are up in arms. Hence, waitlist movement has been slow because the admissions deans were all busy rioting in central Florida.

 

[3toedsloth]

The AAMC, in its infinite wisdom, decided to hold a GSA meeting in Orlando from April 28-May 1. This meeting was exceptionally well attended because the AAMC, in its infinite wisdom, is ramming through a bunch of unwelcome changes to the application process and folks are up in arms. Hence, waitlist movement has been slow because the admissions deans were all busy rioting in central Florida.

Ohh... how do you know about this??? Lol what changes are being made?

 

[MareNostrummm]

On May 1, and all this week, I was expecting a torrential downpour of "I GOT ACCEPTED OFF THE WAITLIST!!!!" type posts.

I thought the bulk of waitlist movement happens right after the April 30 "traffic day." Alas, I'm not seeing a whole lot of movement in the school-specific threads, here in the general forum, or on this waitlist tracker from Reddit.

What's up with that?
Am I misinformed?
Is this year unusual?

I blame last year's MSAR, which only reported the MCAT acceptance/matriculate averages for the new exam (smaller sample size). So this was misleading and made it seem like every MD school had a lower MCAT average. This may have caused people to apply higher than usual and unsuccessfully, thus leading to more people ending up relegated to acceptances at lower ranked schools and restricting waitlist movement.

 

[5sosfan]

I blame last year's MSAR, which only reported the MCAT acceptance/matriculate averages for the new exam (smaller sample size). So this was misleading and made it seem like every MD school had a lower MCAT average. This may have caused people to apply higher than usual and unsuccessfully, thus leading to more people ending up with acceptances at lower ranked schools and restricting waitlist movement.

I don’t know if this would have caused such a tremendous increase in number of applicants

 

[boogiecousins94]

I don’t know if this would have caused such a tremendous increase in number of applicants

Didn't the overall number of applicants actually go down from last year? (That number in the 50,000s)

 

[MareNostrummm]

I don’t know if this would have caused such a tremendous increase in number of applicants

Probably not but it may play a small factor if there ends up being slightly less waitlist movement at lower ranked schools.

 

[5sosfan]

Didn't the overall number of applicants actually go down from last year? (That number in the 50,000s)

Oh did it? But like marenostrummm pointed out, there could have been an increase of applicants in lower ranked schools

 

[PhilzCoffeeAddict]

Last year, I saw a lot of SDNers list their withdrawal by april 30. This year, I didn't see that much.

 

[MooberGoober]

Wait list movement at my top choice also seems pretty bleak, it was much more active last year. Oh well, hoping for the best in the coming days.

 

[medschoolzombie]

Oh did it? But like marenostrummm pointed out, there could have been an increase of applicants in lower ranked schools

I think people just applied to more schools in general so even if the total number of people went down a lot of schools seem to have gotten enough apps to be what a lot of people would consider low yield

 

[medschoolzombie]

Last year, I saw a lot of SDNers list their withdrawal by april 30. This year, I didn't see that much.

Me neither. Either very few people are using sdn or people aren’t giving up acceptances. Or maybe everyone’s just on a waitlist aside from a handful of people

 

[Med Ed]

Ohh... how do you know about this???

Cuz it's my job.

Lol what changes are being made?

The big two are 1.) doing away with the multiple/national acceptance reports, and 2.) ending the prohibition on poaching students post-matriculation. Heads have been exploding for weeks now.

 

[3toedsloth]

The big two are 1.) doing away with the multiple/national acceptance reports, and 2.) ending the prohibition on poaching students post-matriculation. Heads have been exploding for weeks now.

From an applicant perspective, I feel these are good changes.

#1 is really a good change, imo. It's such a pain to go to interviews and know that, if it's much lower ranked, I basically don't stand a chance because I have "better" acceptances. Isn't the only benefit of these reports that schools can protect their yield?

#2 sounds like a better idea than the race to start orientation earlier. But it does present increased risk of schools having an empty seat.

 

[Med Ed]

From an applicant perspective, I feel these are good changes.

#1 is really a good change, imo. It's such a pain to go to interviews and know that, if it's much lower ranked, I basically don't stand a chance because I have "better" acceptances. Isn't the only benefit of these reports that schools can protect their yield?

The benefit is an orderly, predictable system that benefits the majority of stakeholders. Based on the conversations I have had with people around the admissions campfires I think we're going to see a significant expansion of early-decision programs, a more systematic use of LOIs to make waitlist decisions (which will increase the burden on both applicants and school staff), and more strings being attached to offers of admission. I think admissions offices nationwide will be conferring with their respective legal departments to deploy every means available to lock applicants into seats. It's going to be chaos for at least a couple of cycles. It wouldn't surprise me if some schools leave AMCAS and go back to individual applications (now with four figure deposits).

#2 sounds like a better idea than the race to start orientation earlier. But it does present increased risk of schools having an empty seat.

An empty seat means the loss of a future physician, which is significant. Schools will move to protect their own interests, perhaps by changing tuition refund policies so that dropping out after starting orientation is extremely costly.

 

[boogiecousins94]

The benefit is an orderly, predictable system that benefits the majority of stakeholders. Based on the conversations I have had with people around the admissions campfires I think we're going to see a significant expansion of early-decision programs, a more systematic use of LOIs to make waitlist decisions (which will increase the burden on both applicants and school staff), and more strings being attached to offers of admission. I think admissions offices nationwide will be conferring with their respective legal departments to deploy every means available to lock applicants into seats. It's going to be chaos for at least a couple of cycles. It wouldn't surprise me if some schools leave AMCAS and go back to individual applications (now with four figure deposits).



An empty seat means the loss of a future physician, which is significant. Schools will move to protect their own interests, perhaps by changing tuition refund policies so that dropping out after starting orientation is extremely costly.

Do you think some admission offices are playing around with new WL tactics this cycle to "prepare" or "practice" for next cycle?

 

[Med Ed]

Do you think some admission offices are playing around with new WL tactics this cycle to "prepare" or "practice" for next cycle?

No.

 

[DBC03]

Cuz it's my job.



The big two are 1.) doing away with the multiple/national acceptance reports, and 2.) ending the prohibition on poaching students post-matriculation. Heads have been exploding for weeks now.

Any possibility that the AAMC will reverse course on this?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[gadgor]

The AAMC, in its infinite wisdom, decided to hold a GSA meeting in Orlando from April 28-May 1. This meeting was exceptionally well attended because the AAMC, in its infinite wisdom, is ramming through a bunch of unwelcome changes to the application process and folks are up in arms. Hence, waitlist movement has been slow because the admissions deans were all busy rioting in central Florida.

Do you think the meeting had a huge impact on the waitlist movement? Or do you think there are other factors, such as increase in the number of applicants, contributing to the speed of the waitlist movement?

 

[Dremt]

The benefit is an orderly, predictable system that benefits the majority of stakeholders. Based on the conversations I have had with people around the admissions campfires I think we're going to see a significant expansion of early-decision programs, a more systematic use of LOIs to make waitlist decisions (which will increase the burden on both applicants and school staff), and more strings being attached to offers of admission. I think admissions offices nationwide will be conferring with their respective legal departments to deploy every means available to lock applicants into seats. It's going to be chaos for at least a couple of cycles. It wouldn't surprise me if some schools leave AMCAS and go back to individual applications (now with four figure deposits).



An empty seat means the loss of a future physician, which is significant. Schools will move to protect their own interests, perhaps by changing tuition refund policies so that dropping out after starting orientation is extremely costly.

Does not knowing if an applicant on your wait-list or in your class has other acceptances actually help somehow in the grand scheme? I'm curious for your input on this

Also I thought according to other faculty members on this site, LoI's (if you're talking about intent) are worthless to them because they're not actually binding. Are you thinking that schools will look for a way to make a letter of intent a contract?

I can see the 4 figure deposits happening, DO schools already practice this broadly. By "strings being attached to offers of admission" do you mean something like "you pledge not to take any more acceptances after accepting our offer" or something?

I know some of these are hypothetical but I'm interested in a faculty member's opinion on this. I'm also very much hoping that this national conference of sorts is what's causing the delay in committee meetings/WL acceptances.

 

[Med Ed]

Any possibility that the AAMC will reverse course on this?

No.

 

[Med Ed]

Do you think the meeting had a huge impact on the waitlist movement? Or do you think there are other factors, such as increase in the number of applicants, contributing to the speed of the waitlist movement?

I think it's significant, but perhaps not the only thing happening this year.

 

[Med Ed]

Does not knowing if an applicant on your wait-list or in your class has other acceptances actually help somehow in the grand scheme? I'm curious for your input on this

No. In theory it is intended to prevent schools from skipping people on their waitlists who have acceptances elsewhere. In practice it will likely incur a lot of unintended consequences that will negatively impact the "grand scheme."

Also I thought according to other faculty members on this site, LoI's (if you're talking about intent) are worthless to them because they're not actually binding. Are you thinking that schools will look for a way to make a letter of intent a contract?

Yes.

I can see the 4 figure deposits happening, DO schools already practice this broadly. By "strings being attached to offers of admission" do you mean something like "you pledge not to take any more acceptances after accepting our offer" or something?

AAMC will not currently allow DO-sized deposits. As I alluded to earlier, some schools may decide to leave AMCAS and revert to the old days of individual applications. This would free them to do whatever they want. They may also start looking for loopholes in the deposit rule.

 

[3toedsloth]

No. In theory it is intended to prevent schools from skipping people on their waitlists who have acceptances elsewhere. In practice it will likely incur a lot of unintended consequences that will negatively impact the "grand scheme."



Yes.



AAMC will not currently allow DO-sized deposits. As I alluded to earlier, some schools may decide to leave AMCAS and revert to the old days of individual applications. This would free them to do whatever they want. They may also start looking for loopholes in the deposit rule.

Georgetown charges $500 due on traffic day. Seems they have pretty good yield and not a ton of waitlist movement.

 

[boogiecousins94]

Georgetown charges $500 due on traffic day. Seems they have pretty good yield and not a ton of waitlist movement.

Like a second deposit? That's actually a good idea on the schools end, after April 30th if you're holding your sole acceptance there they could (idk if it's against rules or anything) charge another, more hefty deposit to make you not want to leave if you get another WL offer

 

[3toedsloth]

Like a second deposit? That's actually a good idea on the schools end, after April 30th if you're holding your sole acceptance there they could (idk if it's against rules or anything) charge another, more hefty deposit to make you not want to leave if you get another WL offer

They didn’t charge the $100 deposit in October or whenever, but they had a page that said that in order to keep your seat, a $500 deposit is due on April 30. I don’t remember exactly, but I think it is a non-refundable deposit.

 

[Bob's Gift]

No. In theory it is intended to prevent schools from skipping people on their waitlists who have acceptances elsewhere. In practice it will likely incur a lot of unintended consequences that will negatively impact the "grand scheme.



AAMC will not currently allow DO-sized deposits. As I alluded to earlier, some schools may decide to leave AMCAS and revert to the old days of individual applications. This would free them to do whatever they want. They may also start looking for loopholes in the deposit rule.

Very interesting reading.

 

[Dremt]

No. In theory it is intended to prevent schools from skipping people on their waitlists who have acceptances elsewhere. In practice it will likely incur a lot of unintended consequences that will negatively impact the "grand scheme."

Ah, I see. Maybe lots more late summer acceptances and confusion.

Thank you for your answers!

 

[DBC03]

No.

Bummer. I actually take solace in knowing that once my school starts I don’t have to wonder if my waitlist school will accept me. I also can’t imagine how schools would fill those vacancies.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[DokterMom]

Ah, I see. Maybe lots more late summer acceptances and confusion.

Thank you for your answers!

Wow -- I can see this causing a LOT of upheaval. Seems like a date-based 'no-poaching' rule would be more fair and result in less disruption, not more.

 

[Goro]

Wow -- I can see this causing a LOT of upheaval. Seems like a date-based 'no-poaching' rule would be more fair and result in less disruption, not more.

Welcome to our world on DO land

 

[Dremt]

Wow -- I can see this causing a LOT of upheaval. Seems like a date-based 'no-poaching' rule would be more fair and result in less disruption, not more.

I’m sure they could adapt the current May 15th guideline of “you have to inform a school you’re trying to poach their student within 1 business day of giving the acceptance offer”

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

I’m sure they could adapt the current May 15th guideline of “you have to inform a school you’re trying their student within 1 business day of giving the acceptance offer”

This doesn't work if they take away the acceptance reports though. The schools won't know where else their students may be holding acceptances.

 

[3toedsloth]

This doesn't work if they take away the acceptance reports though. The schools won't know where else their students may be holding acceptances.

Hmm... so a new "strategy" could be to hold all of your acceptances until right before school starts and then ask for aid? Schools wouldn't have much time to replace you and then **** hits the fan and applicants get baller scholarships.

I'm going to stay on SDN next year to watch this train wreck.

 

[Med Ed]

Hmm... so a new "strategy" could be to hold all of your acceptances until right before school starts and then ask for aid? Schools wouldn't have much time to replace you and then **** hits the fan and applicants get baller scholarships.

If someone tried that with us we would be tipped off by a lack of FAFSA activity before the start of orientation, and we would rescind that person's acceptance.

 

[Med Ed]

Georgetown charges $500 due on traffic day. Seems they have pretty good yield and not a ton of waitlist movement.

That is actually contrary to the traffic rules.

7. Each school's pre-enrollment deposit should not exceed $100 and (except for EDP applicants,) be refundable until April 30. If the applicant enrolls at the school, the school should credit the deposit toward tuition. Schools should not require additional deposits or matriculation fees prior to matriculation.

 

[3toedsloth]

That is actually contrary to the traffic rules.

7. Each school's pre-enrollment deposit should not exceed $100 and (except for EDP applicants,) be refundable until April 30. If the applicant enrolls at the school, the school should credit the deposit toward tuition. Schools should not require additional deposits or matriculation fees prior to matriculation.

Well, it says “AAMC recommends” the following traffic rules.

Georgetown was prob like “ok, thanks for the recommendation... but no.”

Tricky but smart...

I’ve experienced a few other schools bending the traffic rules this year, so they’re definitely not alone.

If someone tried that with us we would be tipped off by a lack of FAFSA activity before the start of orientation, and we would rescind that person's acceptance.

Great train wreck watching.

But... How would that work? People can submit the FAFSA to 10 schools at a time, and it can be submitted as many times as needed — I’ve submitted mine to 12 schools, for example. Or they could be a baller planning to pay cash.

This is obviously just hypothetical, but I’m predicting the shenanigans in advance...

 

[grateful_phys]

Does not knowing if an applicant on your wait-list or in your class has other acceptances actually help somehow in the grand scheme? I'm curious for your input on this

Also I thought according to other faculty members on this site, LoI's (if you're talking about intent) are worthless to them because they're not actually binding. Are you thinking that schools will look for a way to make a letter of intent a contract?

I can see the 4 figure deposits happening, DO schools already practice this broadly. By "strings being attached to offers of admission" do you mean something like "you pledge not to take any more acceptances after accepting our offer" or something?

I know some of these are hypothetical but I'm interested in a faculty member's opinion on this. I'm also very much hoping that this national conference of sorts is what's causing the delay in committee meetings/WL acceptances.

Wait so they can't see if we have other acceptances?

 

[Dremt]

Wait so they can't see if we have other acceptances?

You have to read the whole thread

 

[grateful_phys]

You have to read the whole thread

I did....

 

[Dremt]

I did....

You can see that’s for future cycles, I expect the AAMC will post updated traffic rules

 

[Med Ed]

Well, it says “AAMC recommends” the following traffic rules.

Georgetown was prob like “ok, thanks for the recommendation... but no.”

Tricky but smart...

I’ve experienced a few other schools bending the traffic rules this year, so they’re definitely not alone.



Great train wreck watching.

But... How would that work? People can submit the FAFSA to 10 schools at a time, and it can be submitted as many times as needed — I’ve submitted mine to 12 schools, for example. Or they could be a baller planning to pay cash.

This is obviously just hypothetical, but I’m predicting the shenanigans in advance...

It’s not just submitting the FAFSA. You eventually have to designate which school is going to receive the funds, and the school’s financial aid office has work on the back end to get it squared away. Also, once the school receives the disbursement, you may not be able to recover any of it if you bail out and try to go elsewhere.

 

[3toedsloth]

Wait so they can't see if we have other acceptances?

There’s a multiple acceptance report released in like feb or so, where schools that have accepted you can see where else you have also been accepted.

And there’s the National acceptance report, released in late March or early April or so, where all schools can see where you’ve been accepted.

So currently, yes they can see that info; Per Med Ed, those might be going away next year.

 

[grateful_phys]

You can see that’s for future cycles, I expect the AAMC will post updated traffic rules

Oh, I was confused because someone said that's why WL movement was slow this year.

There’s a multiple acceptance report released in like feb or so, where schools that have accepted you can see where else you have also been accepted.

And there’s the National acceptance report, released in late March or early April or so, where all schools can see where you’ve been accepted.

So currently, yes they can see that info; Per Med Ed, those might be going away next year.

Thank you for clarifying that for me.

 

[grateful_phys]

So on the topic of WL movement....has it really been that slow? How big are we expecting in numbers? I'm on two and I would do anything to get off of them!

 

[3toedsloth]

So on the topic of WL movement....has it really been that slow? How big are we expecting in numbers? I'm on two and I would do anything to get off of them!

No clue...

I’d like to get off of mine, too

 

[neuroresearchguy23]

All my waitlists are moving slower this year compared to last

+1