Sep 4, 2017
523
832
Earth
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student
On May 1, and all this week, I was expecting a torrential downpour of "I GOT ACCEPTED OFF THE WAITLIST!!!!" type posts.

I thought the bulk of waitlist movement happens right after the April 30 "traffic day." Alas, I'm not seeing a whole lot of movement in the school-specific threads, here in the general forum, or on this waitlist tracker from Reddit.

What's up with that?
Am I misinformed?
Is this year unusual?
 
About the Ads

byunprime2

2+ Year Member
Oct 31, 2017
40
131
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student
Hmm... maybe it's so quiet bc adcoms have started selecting for the personality type that wouldn't use SDN :ninja:
 
  • Like
Reactions: 14 users
Sep 13, 2015
3,419
12,618
Status (Visible)
  1. Attending Physician
On May 1, and all this week, I was expecting a torrential downpour of "I GOT ACCEPTED OFF THE WAITLIST!!!!" type posts.

I thought the bulk of waitlist movement happens right after the April 30 "traffic day." Alas, I'm not seeing a whole lot of movement in the school-specific threads, here in the general forum, or on this waitlist tracker from Reddit.

What's up with that?
Am I misinformed?
Is this year unusual?

The AAMC, in its infinite wisdom, decided to hold a GSA meeting in Orlando from April 28-May 1. This meeting was exceptionally well attended because the AAMC, in its infinite wisdom, is ramming through a bunch of unwelcome changes to the application process and folks are up in arms. Hence, waitlist movement has been slow because the admissions deans were all busy rioting in central Florida.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 33 users

gonnif

Rule One: Take a Breath
10+ Year Member
Jul 26, 2009
23,559
39,601
The Big Bad Apple
Status (Visible)
  1. Non-Student
On May 1, and all this week, I was expecting a torrential downpour of "I GOT ACCEPTED OFF THE WAITLIST!!!!" type posts.

I thought the bulk of waitlist movement happens right after the April 30 "traffic day." Alas, I'm not seeing a whole lot of movement in the school-specific threads, here in the general forum, or on this waitlist tracker from Reddit.

What's up with that?
Am I misinformed?
Is this year unusual?

It also takes time from all the withdrawals from April 30 deadline for schools to catch up on who is still attending. Things dont happen instantaneously but take a week or two to catch up
 
  • Like
Reactions: 12 users
Sep 4, 2017
523
832
Earth
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student
The AAMC, in its infinite wisdom, decided to hold a GSA meeting in Orlando from April 28-May 1. This meeting was exceptionally well attended because the AAMC, in its infinite wisdom, is ramming through a bunch of unwelcome changes to the application process and folks are up in arms. Hence, waitlist movement has been slow because the admissions deans were all busy rioting in central Florida.

Ohh... how do you know about this??? Lol what changes are being made?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users

MareNostrummm

D.O. Class of 2022
5+ Year Member
Oct 18, 2015
1,434
1,696
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student (Accepted)
On May 1, and all this week, I was expecting a torrential downpour of "I GOT ACCEPTED OFF THE WAITLIST!!!!" type posts.

I thought the bulk of waitlist movement happens right after the April 30 "traffic day." Alas, I'm not seeing a whole lot of movement in the school-specific threads, here in the general forum, or on this waitlist tracker from Reddit.

What's up with that?
Am I misinformed?
Is this year unusual?

I blame last year's MSAR, which only reported the MCAT acceptance/matriculate averages for the new exam (smaller sample size). So this was misleading and made it seem like every MD school had a lower MCAT average. This may have caused people to apply higher than usual and unsuccessfully, thus leading to more people ending up relegated to acceptances at lower ranked schools and restricting waitlist movement.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

5sosfan

5+ Year Member
Jan 6, 2016
160
188
I blame last year's MSAR, which only reported the MCAT acceptance/matriculate averages for the new exam (smaller sample size). So this was misleading and made it seem like every MD school had a lower MCAT average. This may have caused people to apply higher than usual and unsuccessfully, thus leading to more people ending up with acceptances at lower ranked schools and restricting waitlist movement.

I don’t know if this would have caused such a tremendous increase in number of applicants
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users

boogiecousins94

2+ Year Member
May 16, 2017
883
1,047
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student (Accepted)
I don’t know if this would have caused such a tremendous increase in number of applicants

Didn't the overall number of applicants actually go down from last year? (That number in the 50,000s)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

MareNostrummm

D.O. Class of 2022
5+ Year Member
Oct 18, 2015
1,434
1,696
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student (Accepted)
I don’t know if this would have caused such a tremendous increase in number of applicants

Probably not but it may play a small factor if there ends up being slightly less waitlist movement at lower ranked schools.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Dec 21, 2017
334
441
Status (Visible)
  1. Pre-Medical
Last year, I saw a lot of SDNers list their withdrawal by april 30. This year, I didn't see that much.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
About the Ads

MooberGoober

2+ Year Member
Oct 16, 2017
145
218
Wait list movement at my top choice also seems pretty bleak, it was much more active last year. Oh well, hoping for the best in the coming days.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

medschoolzombie

2+ Year Member
Jul 26, 2016
2,238
2,310
Oh did it? But like marenostrummm pointed out, there could have been an increase of applicants in lower ranked schools
I think people just applied to more schools in general so even if the total number of people went down a lot of schools seem to have gotten enough apps to be what a lot of people would consider low yield
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Sep 13, 2015
3,419
12,618
Status (Visible)
  1. Attending Physician
Ohh... how do you know about this???

Cuz it's my job.

3toedsloth said:
Lol what changes are being made?

The big two are 1.) doing away with the multiple/national acceptance reports, and 2.) ending the prohibition on poaching students post-matriculation. Heads have been exploding for weeks now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 8 users
Sep 4, 2017
523
832
Earth
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student
The big two are 1.) doing away with the multiple/national acceptance reports, and 2.) ending the prohibition on poaching students post-matriculation. Heads have been exploding for weeks now.

From an applicant perspective, I feel these are good changes.

#1 is really a good change, imo. It's such a pain to go to interviews and know that, if it's much lower ranked, I basically don't stand a chance because I have "better" acceptances. Isn't the only benefit of these reports that schools can protect their yield?

#2 sounds like a better idea than the race to start orientation earlier. But it does present increased risk of schools having an empty seat.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Sep 13, 2015
3,419
12,618
Status (Visible)
  1. Attending Physician
From an applicant perspective, I feel these are good changes.

#1 is really a good change, imo. It's such a pain to go to interviews and know that, if it's much lower ranked, I basically don't stand a chance because I have "better" acceptances. Isn't the only benefit of these reports that schools can protect their yield?

The benefit is an orderly, predictable system that benefits the majority of stakeholders. Based on the conversations I have had with people around the admissions campfires I think we're going to see a significant expansion of early-decision programs, a more systematic use of LOIs to make waitlist decisions (which will increase the burden on both applicants and school staff), and more strings being attached to offers of admission. I think admissions offices nationwide will be conferring with their respective legal departments to deploy every means available to lock applicants into seats. It's going to be chaos for at least a couple of cycles. It wouldn't surprise me if some schools leave AMCAS and go back to individual applications (now with four figure deposits).

3toedsloth said:
#2 sounds like a better idea than the race to start orientation earlier. But it does present increased risk of schools having an empty seat.

An empty seat means the loss of a future physician, which is significant. Schools will move to protect their own interests, perhaps by changing tuition refund policies so that dropping out after starting orientation is extremely costly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users

boogiecousins94

2+ Year Member
May 16, 2017
883
1,047
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student (Accepted)
The benefit is an orderly, predictable system that benefits the majority of stakeholders. Based on the conversations I have had with people around the admissions campfires I think we're going to see a significant expansion of early-decision programs, a more systematic use of LOIs to make waitlist decisions (which will increase the burden on both applicants and school staff), and more strings being attached to offers of admission. I think admissions offices nationwide will be conferring with their respective legal departments to deploy every means available to lock applicants into seats. It's going to be chaos for at least a couple of cycles. It wouldn't surprise me if some schools leave AMCAS and go back to individual applications (now with four figure deposits).



An empty seat means the loss of a future physician, which is significant. Schools will move to protect their own interests, perhaps by changing tuition refund policies so that dropping out after starting orientation is extremely costly.

Do you think some admission offices are playing around with new WL tactics this cycle to "prepare" or "practice" for next cycle?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users

DBC03

2+ Year Member
Dec 28, 2016
2,432
3,038
North Carolina
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student (Accepted)
Cuz it's my job.



The big two are 1.) doing away with the multiple/national acceptance reports, and 2.) ending the prohibition on poaching students post-matriculation. Heads have been exploding for weeks now.

Any possibility that the AAMC will reverse course on this?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 

gadgor

5+ Year Member
Jul 7, 2014
92
75
Status (Visible)
  1. Pre-Medical
The AAMC, in its infinite wisdom, decided to hold a GSA meeting in Orlando from April 28-May 1. This meeting was exceptionally well attended because the AAMC, in its infinite wisdom, is ramming through a bunch of unwelcome changes to the application process and folks are up in arms. Hence, waitlist movement has been slow because the admissions deans were all busy rioting in central Florida.

Do you think the meeting had a huge impact on the waitlist movement? Or do you think there are other factors, such as increase in the number of applicants, contributing to the speed of the waitlist movement?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
About the Ads

Dremt

2+ Year Member
Aug 23, 2017
133
194
Status (Visible)
  1. Pre-Medical
The benefit is an orderly, predictable system that benefits the majority of stakeholders. Based on the conversations I have had with people around the admissions campfires I think we're going to see a significant expansion of early-decision programs, a more systematic use of LOIs to make waitlist decisions (which will increase the burden on both applicants and school staff), and more strings being attached to offers of admission. I think admissions offices nationwide will be conferring with their respective legal departments to deploy every means available to lock applicants into seats. It's going to be chaos for at least a couple of cycles. It wouldn't surprise me if some schools leave AMCAS and go back to individual applications (now with four figure deposits).



An empty seat means the loss of a future physician, which is significant. Schools will move to protect their own interests, perhaps by changing tuition refund policies so that dropping out after starting orientation is extremely costly.

Does not knowing if an applicant on your wait-list or in your class has other acceptances actually help somehow in the grand scheme? I'm curious for your input on this

Also I thought according to other faculty members on this site, LoI's (if you're talking about intent) are worthless to them because they're not actually binding. Are you thinking that schools will look for a way to make a letter of intent a contract?

I can see the 4 figure deposits happening, DO schools already practice this broadly. By "strings being attached to offers of admission" do you mean something like "you pledge not to take any more acceptances after accepting our offer" or something?

I know some of these are hypothetical but I'm interested in a faculty member's opinion on this. I'm also very much hoping that this national conference of sorts is what's causing the delay in committee meetings/WL acceptances.
 
Sep 13, 2015
3,419
12,618
Status (Visible)
  1. Attending Physician
Do you think the meeting had a huge impact on the waitlist movement? Or do you think there are other factors, such as increase in the number of applicants, contributing to the speed of the waitlist movement?

I think it's significant, but perhaps not the only thing happening this year.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Sep 13, 2015
3,419
12,618
Status (Visible)
  1. Attending Physician
Does not knowing if an applicant on your wait-list or in your class has other acceptances actually help somehow in the grand scheme? I'm curious for your input on this

No. In theory it is intended to prevent schools from skipping people on their waitlists who have acceptances elsewhere. In practice it will likely incur a lot of unintended consequences that will negatively impact the "grand scheme."

Dremt said:
Also I thought according to other faculty members on this site, LoI's (if you're talking about intent) are worthless to them because they're not actually binding. Are you thinking that schools will look for a way to make a letter of intent a contract?

Yes.

Dremt said:
I can see the 4 figure deposits happening, DO schools already practice this broadly. By "strings being attached to offers of admission" do you mean something like "you pledge not to take any more acceptances after accepting our offer" or something?

AAMC will not currently allow DO-sized deposits. As I alluded to earlier, some schools may decide to leave AMCAS and revert to the old days of individual applications. This would free them to do whatever they want. They may also start looking for loopholes in the deposit rule.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Sep 4, 2017
523
832
Earth
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student
No. In theory it is intended to prevent schools from skipping people on their waitlists who have acceptances elsewhere. In practice it will likely incur a lot of unintended consequences that will negatively impact the "grand scheme."



Yes.



AAMC will not currently allow DO-sized deposits. As I alluded to earlier, some schools may decide to leave AMCAS and revert to the old days of individual applications. This would free them to do whatever they want. They may also start looking for loopholes in the deposit rule.

Georgetown charges $500 due on traffic day. Seems they have pretty good yield and not a ton of waitlist movement.
 

boogiecousins94

2+ Year Member
May 16, 2017
883
1,047
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student (Accepted)
Georgetown charges $500 due on traffic day. Seems they have pretty good yield and not a ton of waitlist movement.

Like a second deposit? That's actually a good idea on the schools end, after April 30th if you're holding your sole acceptance there they could (idk if it's against rules or anything) charge another, more hefty deposit to make you not want to leave if you get another WL offer
 
Sep 4, 2017
523
832
Earth
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student
Like a second deposit? That's actually a good idea on the schools end, after April 30th if you're holding your sole acceptance there they could (idk if it's against rules or anything) charge another, more hefty deposit to make you not want to leave if you get another WL offer

They didn’t charge the $100 deposit in October or whenever, but they had a page that said that in order to keep your seat, a $500 deposit is due on April 30. I don’t remember exactly, but I think it is a non-refundable deposit.
 
Apr 6, 2018
29
16
Status (Visible)
  1. Pre-Health (Field Undecided)
No. In theory it is intended to prevent schools from skipping people on their waitlists who have acceptances elsewhere. In practice it will likely incur a lot of unintended consequences that will negatively impact the "grand scheme.



AAMC will not currently allow DO-sized deposits. As I alluded to earlier, some schools may decide to leave AMCAS and revert to the old days of individual applications. This would free them to do whatever they want. They may also start looking for loopholes in the deposit rule.

Very interesting reading.
 

Dremt

2+ Year Member
Aug 23, 2017
133
194
Status (Visible)
  1. Pre-Medical
No. In theory it is intended to prevent schools from skipping people on their waitlists who have acceptances elsewhere. In practice it will likely incur a lot of unintended consequences that will negatively impact the "grand scheme."

Ah, I see. Maybe lots more late summer acceptances and confusion.

Thank you for your answers!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
About the Ads

DokterMom

SDN Gold Donor
7+ Year Member
Mar 1, 2013
5,423
12,655
Status (Visible)
  1. Non-Student
Ah, I see. Maybe lots more late summer acceptances and confusion.

Thank you for your answers!

Wow -- I can see this causing a LOT of upheaval. Seems like a date-based 'no-poaching' rule would be more fair and result in less disruption, not more.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users

Dremt

2+ Year Member
Aug 23, 2017
133
194
Status (Visible)
  1. Pre-Medical
Wow -- I can see this causing a LOT of upheaval. Seems like a date-based 'no-poaching' rule would be more fair and result in less disruption, not more.
I’m sure they could adapt the current May 15th guideline of “you have to inform a school you’re trying to poach their student within 1 business day of giving the acceptance offer”
 
Last edited:

TelemarketingEnigma

2+ Year Member
Feb 12, 2017
1,439
3,057
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student
I’m sure they could adapt the current May 15th guideline of “you have to inform a school you’re trying their student within 1 business day of giving the acceptance offer”

This doesn't work if they take away the acceptance reports though. The schools won't know where else their students may be holding acceptances.
 
Sep 4, 2017
523
832
Earth
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student
This doesn't work if they take away the acceptance reports though. The schools won't know where else their students may be holding acceptances.

Hmm... so a new "strategy" could be to hold all of your acceptances until right before school starts and then ask for aid? Schools wouldn't have much time to replace you and then **** hits the fan and applicants get baller scholarships.

I'm going to stay on SDN next year to watch this train wreck.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
Sep 13, 2015
3,419
12,618
Status (Visible)
  1. Attending Physician
Hmm... so a new "strategy" could be to hold all of your acceptances until right before school starts and then ask for aid? Schools wouldn't have much time to replace you and then **** hits the fan and applicants get baller scholarships.

If someone tried that with us we would be tipped off by a lack of FAFSA activity before the start of orientation, and we would rescind that person's acceptance.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Sep 13, 2015
3,419
12,618
Status (Visible)
  1. Attending Physician
Georgetown charges $500 due on traffic day. Seems they have pretty good yield and not a ton of waitlist movement.

That is actually contrary to the traffic rules.

7. Each school's pre-enrollment deposit should not exceed $100 and (except for EDP applicants,) be refundable until April 30. If the applicant enrolls at the school, the school should credit the deposit toward tuition. Schools should not require additional deposits or matriculation fees prior to matriculation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Sep 4, 2017
523
832
Earth
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student
That is actually contrary to the traffic rules.

7. Each school's pre-enrollment deposit should not exceed $100 and (except for EDP applicants,) be refundable until April 30. If the applicant enrolls at the school, the school should credit the deposit toward tuition. Schools should not require additional deposits or matriculation fees prior to matriculation.

Well, it says “AAMC recommends” the following traffic rules.

Georgetown was prob like “ok, thanks for the recommendation... but no.”

Tricky but smart...

I’ve experienced a few other schools bending the traffic rules this year, so they’re definitely not alone.

If someone tried that with us we would be tipped off by a lack of FAFSA activity before the start of orientation, and we would rescind that person's acceptance.

Great train wreck watching.

But... How would that work? People can submit the FAFSA to 10 schools at a time, and it can be submitted as many times as needed — I’ve submitted mine to 12 schools, for example. Or they could be a baller planning to pay cash.

This is obviously just hypothetical, but I’m predicting the shenanigans in advance...
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
May 20, 2017
179
265
Status (Visible)
  1. Pre-Medical
Does not knowing if an applicant on your wait-list or in your class has other acceptances actually help somehow in the grand scheme? I'm curious for your input on this

Also I thought according to other faculty members on this site, LoI's (if you're talking about intent) are worthless to them because they're not actually binding. Are you thinking that schools will look for a way to make a letter of intent a contract?

I can see the 4 figure deposits happening, DO schools already practice this broadly. By "strings being attached to offers of admission" do you mean something like "you pledge not to take any more acceptances after accepting our offer" or something?

I know some of these are hypothetical but I'm interested in a faculty member's opinion on this. I'm also very much hoping that this national conference of sorts is what's causing the delay in committee meetings/WL acceptances.
Wait so they can't see if we have other acceptances?
 
Sep 13, 2015
3,419
12,618
Status (Visible)
  1. Attending Physician
Well, it says “AAMC recommends” the following traffic rules.

Georgetown was prob like “ok, thanks for the recommendation... but no.”

Tricky but smart...

I’ve experienced a few other schools bending the traffic rules this year, so they’re definitely not alone.



Great train wreck watching.

But... How would that work? People can submit the FAFSA to 10 schools at a time, and it can be submitted as many times as needed — I’ve submitted mine to 12 schools, for example. Or they could be a baller planning to pay cash.

This is obviously just hypothetical, but I’m predicting the shenanigans in advance...

It’s not just submitting the FAFSA. You eventually have to designate which school is going to receive the funds, and the school’s financial aid office has work on the back end to get it squared away. Also, once the school receives the disbursement, you may not be able to recover any of it if you bail out and try to go elsewhere.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
Sep 4, 2017
523
832
Earth
Status (Visible)
  1. Medical Student
Wait so they can't see if we have other acceptances?

There’s a multiple acceptance report released in like feb or so, where schools that have accepted you can see where else you have also been accepted.

And there’s the National acceptance report, released in late March or early April or so, where all schools can see where you’ve been accepted.

So currently, yes they can see that info; Per Med Ed, those might be going away next year.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
May 20, 2017
179
265
Status (Visible)
  1. Pre-Medical
You can see that’s for future cycles, I expect the AAMC will post updated traffic rules
Oh, I was confused because someone said that's why WL movement was slow this year.
There’s a multiple acceptance report released in like feb or so, where schools that have accepted you can see where else you have also been accepted.

And there’s the National acceptance report, released in late March or early April or so, where all schools can see where you’ve been accepted.

So currently, yes they can see that info; Per Med Ed, those might be going away next year.


Thank you for clarifying that for me.
 
May 20, 2017
179
265
Status (Visible)
  1. Pre-Medical
So on the topic of WL movement....has it really been that slow? How big are we expecting in numbers? I'm on two and I would do anything to get off of them!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
About the Ads
This thread is more than 3 years old.

Your message may be considered spam for the following reasons:

  1. Your new thread title is very short, and likely is unhelpful.
  2. Your reply is very short and likely does not add anything to the thread.
  3. Your reply is very long and likely does not add anything to the thread.
  4. It is very likely that it does not need any further discussion and thus bumping it serves no purpose.
  5. Your message is mostly quotes or spoilers.
  6. Your reply has occurred very quickly after a previous reply and likely does not add anything to the thread.
  7. This thread is locked.