Working full time while in medical school (unusual job)

[firedup0311]

As a full time firefighter my schedule is this, work 24 hours, off 48 hours. When I am at the station I have considerable time to study when we are not busy. I also can have people come in to work for me during the day so I can go to class, I just pay them back at some point. So with this schedule, does it look feasible to stay working full time while in the first 2 years of medical school? When rotations hit, I would have to revaluate but having a paycheck for 2 more years would help immensely. This is my current plan for pharmacy school and I will take a one year leave of absence for rotations. I have been thinking more and more about applying to medical school as well but wanted to get some opinions. Im nearly 35, with a wife and kid. I know how to work and also manange my time so Im pretty sure I can make it happen, thanks.

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[pathologyDO]

As a full time firefighter my schedule is this, work 24 hours, off 48 hours. When I am at the station I have considerable time to study when we are not busy. I also can have people come in to work for me during the day so I can go to class, I just pay them back at some point. So with this schedule, does it look feasible to stay working full time while in the first 2 years of medical school? When rotations hit, I would have to revaluate but having a paycheck for 2 more years would help immensely. This is my current plan for pharmacy school and I will take a one year leave of absence for rotations. I have been thinking more and more about applying to medical school as well but wanted to get some opinions. Im nearly 35, with a wife and kid. I know how to work and also manange my time so Im pretty sure I can make it happen, thanks.

I'm just curious as to why you feel like you want to go through medical school after completing pharmacy school?

Your plan to firefight and be at school sounds too stressful in my opinion. Too many loose variables, i.e. "I also can have people come in to work for me during the day so I can go to class, I just pay them back at some point" -- this seems sketchy and unsustainable.

In addition, some schools like KCUMB-COM have mandatory attendance. Given this point, you can probably imagine that the school that you get into will also determine your ability to work at the fire department.

 

[NeuroLAX]

Bad idea... highly advise against it.

 

[emtthink]

Not likely, I work part time as an EMT (I am the only person in my school still working at this point, and everyone thinkis I'm crazy for still working). You know as well as I do that a shift can be a cr*p shoot in terms of how busy you are. I am working a 12 or 24 hour shift every couple of weeks depending on my testing schedule and that is plenty. Some days we are in class 8 hours a day, others its 4. Most days I am spending 12-14 hours at school either in class or studying. I understand the draw of wanting to minimize loans but it isn't worth it. How busy is your system?

The other thing you need to decide is if you want to be a doctor or a pharmacist, they are completely different career paths.

 

[IlDestriero]

I'm not aware of a single person in my class that worked at all. Not even a few shifts a month bar tending, etc. Two former finance people day traded with apparent success and another owned a business managed by another person that required some time. That's it.
If you're someone who can learn quickly the first time and retain the material, you can probably work part time nights or evenings somewhere. However, most jobs are not flexible enough to accommodate your schedule.

 

[DrZed]

I think OP is saying this is his current plan when he applies to Pharmacy school and gets in, and he is also thinking of applying to medical school as well now.

To be honest OP, I think you are vastly underestimating how much time will be required of you in medical school. I can't speak for pharm since I have no interest in it, but juggling 24 hour shifts while cramming the amount of knowledge the first two years is very unwise.

 

[AlabamaPop]

Let them. They will usually still do whatever they wish against reasonable advisement and eventually come back to SDN desperately asking for help because they are in probation or dismissed.

 

[firedup0311]

I was interested in medical school as an alternative to pharmacy school, not going to both. I understand that the rigors of school can be tough and when I spoke with my wife we decided that I would most likely have to quit the department if I decided on medical school. I just wanted to know what people thought that had the experience of attending. I figured it was doable since with my time trades I would never have to miss class. Regarding pharmacy school, my wife is a pharmacist and is pretty confident I could make it through while maintaining my job. While I would prefer to go to medical school, I understand that it may not be possible for someone in my situation. Thanks for the help.

 

[IlDestriero]

While I would prefer to go to medical school, I understand that it may not be possible for someone in my situation. Thanks for the help.

If your wife is a pharmacist already, there's nothing to stop you from going to medical school if you have the grades, etc.
We had a few older married with family medical students in my class. They did fine.

 

[WillburCobb]

Also, be aware that some medical schools prohibit students from working while in school and trying to do so secretly can be grounds for probation or dismissal if found out.

 

[firedup0311]

Also, be aware that some medical schools prohibit students from working while in school and trying to do so secretly can be grounds for probation or dismissal if found out.

I was not aware of this. Would definitely make the decision of trying to work or not work easier. Most likely I will stick with pharmacy as my wife is concerned about time away from family and possible out of state residencies. We are firmly planted in our area and it would be a real hardship for her to move. We do have several residencies around us, (family practice, internal medicine, pediatrics, and surgery) but honestly the only one of those I would leave the fire department for is surgery, and there is no guarantee of obtaining of of those spots. Emergency medicine is another choice for me as I have a decade of experience with it but the residencies are not anywhere near. I am leaving that option open though and am going to shadow our medical director, who is an ER doc, in a couple weeks. I did rounds with internal medicine and while I find it interesting as to what they deal with it would not be my first choice. My wife also has a friend who is just finishing up his surgery residence and Im going to try to get together and ask him about his experience.

Sorry for the rambling but this is pretty new to me. Its been 15 years since I was first interested in medicine but ended up going the fire department route like my father. I do not regret it, actually love it but degenerative knees from the Marines may cause me to give it up at some point. Ive had a hard time thinking about what I would want to do if I left and I keep coming back to medicine. My wife has steered me to the pharmacy route and after seeing the diversity that her and her colleagues work with in the hospital I am no longer opposed to that route. But as someone who has ridden the "gut box" for over a decade I am still drawn to emergency medicine or surgery. Time will tell. Thanks.

 

[firedup0311]

In case anyone was wondering why I had posted this in pre DO, my city has a very nice DO school and it would most likely be the only medical school I would be applying to.

 

[beethousand]

I was not aware of this. Would definitely make the decision of trying to work or not work easier. Most likely I will stick with pharmacy as my wife is concerned about time away from family and possible out of state residencies. We are firmly planted in our area and it would be a real hardship for her to move. We do have several residencies around us, (family practice, internal medicine, pediatrics, and surgery) but honestly the only one of those I would leave the fire department for is surgery, and there is no guarantee of obtaining of of those spots. Emergency medicine is another choice for me as I have a decade of experience with it but the residencies are not anywhere near. I am leaving that option open though and am going to shadow our medical director, who is an ER doc, in a couple weeks. I did rounds with internal medicine and while I find it interesting as to what they deal with it would not be my first choice. My wife also has a friend who is just finishing up his surgery residence and Im going to try to get together and ask him about his experience.

Sorry for the rambling but this is pretty new to me. Its been 15 years since I was first interested in medicine but ended up going the fire department route like my father. I do not regret it, actually love it but degenerative knees from the Marines may cause me to give it up at some point. Ive had a hard time thinking about what I would want to do if I left and I keep coming back to medicine. My wife has steered me to the pharmacy route and after seeing the diversity that her and her colleagues work with in the hospital I am no longer opposed to that route. But as someone who has ridden the "gut box" for over a decade I am still drawn to emergency medicine or surgery. Time will tell. Thanks.

Have you considered PA? Med school is a huge commitment. You could work in a surgical specialty as a PA and the schooling is much shorter. You may need to get some medical experience first though.

 

[firedup0311]

Have not ruled it out as I don't know much about PA's in general. Our DO school does offer PA. What kind of medical experience? I've been a paramedic with the busiest fire department in our state for ten years but do not have in hospital experience.

 

[Eiot]

I wouldn't be up to it.

 

[CajunMedic]

Honestly, I wouldn't try it. I'm a paramedic and was working 48 hour weekends to go to undergrad full time. That lasted about 7-8 months before my grades started to slip from the fatigue. As an FF, I've been on those all night fires where all you can do when it's over is drag yourself back to the station and go home. Now picture that, then trying to clean up, dress professionally and go into a lecture hall and comprehend something like biochem. I'm struggling with the thought of not working myself...

 

[CajunMedic]

Have not ruled it out as I don't know much about PA's in general. Our DO school does offer PA. What kind of medical experience? I've been a paramedic with the busiest fire department in our state for ten years but do not have in hospital experience.

When I was looking at PA a while ago, one of the schools I looked at said they love Paramedics because we're already used to protocols and working independently. They also used them to help teach certain things, I haven't heard of any that didn't consider medic as medical experience .

 

[beethousand]

Have not ruled it out as I don't know much about PA's in general. Our DO school does offer PA. What kind of medical experience? I've been a paramedic with the busiest fire department in our state for ten years but do not have in hospital experience.

I believe most pa schools look quite favorably on paramedics. http://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/physician-assistants.htm#tab-4

 

[Didierdrogba]

Bad idea. I knew some people in pharm school about 3 years ago, and their schedule looked nothing like the med school schedule I have now. They only had about 3 hours of classes per day, and most of their classmates indeed worked. But med school's load is a lot higher.

 

[cabinbuilder]

I was not aware of this. Would definitely make the decision of trying to work or not work easier. Most likely I will stick with pharmacy as my wife is concerned about time away from family and possible out of state residencies. We are firmly planted in our area and it would be a real hardship for her to move. We do have several residencies around us, (family practice, internal medicine, pediatrics, and surgery) but honestly the only one of those I would leave the fire department for is surgery, and there is no guarantee of obtaining of of those spots. Emergency medicine is another choice for me as I have a decade of experience with it but the residencies are not anywhere near. I am leaving that option open though and am going to shadow our medical director, who is an ER doc, in a couple weeks. I did rounds with internal medicine and while I find it interesting as to what they deal with it would not be my first choice. My wife also has a friend who is just finishing up his surgery residence and Im going to try to get together and ask him about his experience.

Sorry for the rambling but this is pretty new to me. Its been 15 years since I was first interested in medicine but ended up going the fire department route like my father. I do not regret it, actually love it but degenerative knees from the Marines may cause me to give it up at some point. Ive had a hard time thinking about what I would want to do if I left and I keep coming back to medicine. My wife has steered me to the pharmacy route and after seeing the diversity that her and her colleagues work with in the hospital I am no longer opposed to that route. But as someone who has ridden the "gut box" for over a decade I am still drawn to emergency medicine or surgery. Time will tell. Thanks.

I highlighted what I thought were conflicting statements.

1. Do not go to medical school if there is NO WAY you would move for residency. It is almost impossible to attend medical school AND residency in the same city. Has it been done? YES. Can you count on it? NO. So if moving is absolutely out of the question then I wouldn't even apply.

2. There is NO way you would be able to keep the firefighting job and got to medical school full time. It's about a 60hr week minimum between class and study. Sometimes more. Most who have a career path in mind upon matriculation generally don't continue on that path after goign through all the rotations. If you are already having knee problems at 35, you may find that standing 12-15 hrs/day in the OR on concrete floors just isn't worth the body pain. By the time you reach that point you will be close to 40 and life gets tiring very quickly. You likely will be giving up the FF job long before you decide what residency path will suit you so your stated I bolded above is puzzling to me.

3. People fail out of medical school all the time. It usually is because they didn't have enough time to study the volumes of material because they are pulled in too many directions. Imagine sitting in class for a 40 hour week and the exam over the material is on the following Monday. You do that every week for 2 years once you get going with the program. Once put on probation, the school doesn't have much sympathy if acedemic distress is due to employment.

Good luck with your decisions.

 

[firedup0311]

Cabin Builder,
You are correct, at this point I have no idea which residencies I would apply for I should have just said I really thought that surgery would be the one I would prefer out of the specialties that are offered at our local hospital. But what do I know? I really have no experience with any of them. Regarding moving, I spoke with my wife and she would not move out of town even if my residency did happen to be out of state. That is why I was looking at residencies here in town. Regarding my knee, its currently doing well as I try to stay fit and keep all the muscles around it healthy. But picking up large patients out of there houses daily, climbing ladders and crawling around on occasion isnt particularly good for it and a knee replacement any time in the future means no job.

This forum is really great as people are pretty blunt and you need that when you are thinking about huge life changes. While I think I could do really well in medical school and beyond, it may just be too must of a lifestyle change for my family and I. I dont know if we could handle me being away for several years at an out of state residency, nor would I prefer to be away from family for that long. In a perfect world I was hoping I could go to the DO school in town, do really well, apply for a residency here, and finally find a job either at that hospital or in a surrounding community. Not having enough knowledge with this process, I probably seem naive in my expectations.

My original plan will probably stand. Ill apply for pharmacy school this fall for entrance in 2014. Ill work full time at the fire station during school and after graduation apply for prn jobs. If the time comes for me to leave the fire dept Ill have a great marketable skill instead of just construction.

 

[survivordo]

Don't do it man. Besides the fact that there is no way you will have time. You might think you may be able to switch out shifts easy-peasy but eventually people are going to get tired of covering for you. Although lots of people talk about not going to class being beneficial and more time efficient there are LOT'S of things that require MANDATORY attendance. Don't burden yourself by constantly having to get someone to cover, you will likely just end up leaving your job on bad terms.

Survivor DO

 

[firedup0311]

Survivordo, thanks, your blog is great!

 

[jrcable]

I feel your pain man, I will also be giving up my job at the fire dept. From what it sounds like to me though like everyone else has said, is that PA is probably a better option for you. Still a great career, and if being in the medical field is what you want than PA can satisfy that for you. Good luck. Stay safe.

 

[coolingglasses]

I'm going to jump in with everyone else and say no. Your job will expect you to put them first, and so will the citizens you serve as a firefighter. What happens when that conflicts with the medical school that expects you to put their schedule and curriculum first?

 

[firedup0311]

Thanks for all the replies. I will look into PA school.

 

[NeuroLAX]

Why all the career changing in this thread OP? Do you want to be a full time medical professional or a firefighter? I get the sense that firefighting is very important to you. God bless you for keeping us safe, but to me it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to take all that money out in loans only to want prn work after you graduate just so you can still do firefighting full time.

Are you a paramedic by chance?

 

[firedup0311]

Why all the career changing in this thread OP? Do you want to be a full time medical professional or a firefighter? I get the sense that firefighting is very important to you. God bless you for keeping us safe, but to me it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to take all that money out in loans only to want prn work after you graduate just so you can still do firefighting full time.

Are you a paramedic by chance?

Heres the situation, I never thought I would be looking at other careers either. Ive been a firefighter for over 15 years now, the last ten full time as a paramedic firefighter with a pretty busy urban department. Its sometimes great and rewarding, sometimes just like every other job its mundane and frustrating. I was in the Marine Reserve Infantry back in 08 and deployed to Iraq. Upon returning I was having some knee instability, had it scoped and the doc said I was headed towards a knee replacement at an early age if I didnt start living a less rigorous lifestyle. No more rucking 100 pounds worth of gear and stop running for fun. So I fulfilled my contract and didnt reenlist. Now on the fire department we have to do alot of things that my knee doesnt like to well like climbing ladders while possibly holding another person, and crawling around on all kinds of surfaces trying to stay below smoke. We have people that leave the job all the time for injuries but if they are like me they have no other job skill besides construction.

I started looking into education benefits for veterans and came across vocational rehab. If its deemed you have a problem thats threatening your current work situation you can apply to go to school and learn a new skill. My wife who is a pharmacist suggested I try to apply for a plan to go to pharmacy school. I did and the plan was accepted. I am finishing up my pre reqs this fall and spring and will probably apply this fall for the following year.

When I was fresh out of high school as a national honor society student, blah blah blah, I applied to go to college pre med, was accepted, but life took me here. With pharmacy school and medical school both being 4 years I was going to ask to switch and fulfill what I had meant to do 15 years ago. It's not as easy now with a wife and kid, mortgage, car loans, but with the VA paying for a good portion, if they agreed to the switch, I figured I could be out of med school by 40, into a residency and still have a good 25 years to practice.

I love being a firefighter and if thats what I do until my body says no, then I will be fine with it. But I also appreciate the journey of learning. Becoming a medical doctor or DO, as it would be, seemed like the ultimate lifelong journey, one which I would never tire of.

Im not exactly sure where Ill end up, for now I have just over a year of undergrad which I am having fun with now that I actually give a crap about school. Thanks for the comments so far, Ill continue to take advise from people who are actually living this day to day.

 

[DrZed]

In that case, one of the doctors I shadowed had a very similar story. Have you thought about applying to military medical schools? You could do your residency at a military hospital and combine your hours from your time enlisted. You would probably be able to switch to private practice once you have enough military hours to retire with full benefits. Also, would probably be easier for you to get accepted. You'd get the full benefits too I think if you went that route where tuition, fees housing etc are paid for along with a stipend.

Note, this is just from hearing word of mouth. I would check with someone in the military to double check.

 

[firedup0311]

Would most likely not be able to get back into the military with my knee. My wife would divorce me as well and we can't have that

 

[NeuroLAX]

Heres the situation, I never thought I would be looking at other careers either. Ive been a firefighter for over 15 years now, the last ten full time as a paramedic firefighter with a pretty busy urban department. Its sometimes great and rewarding, sometimes just like every other job its mundane and frustrating. I was in the Marine Reserve Infantry back in 08 and deployed to Iraq. Upon returning I was having some knee instability, had it scoped and the doc said I was headed towards a knee replacement at an early age if I didnt start living a less rigorous lifestyle. No more rucking 100 pounds worth of gear and stop running for fun. So I fulfilled my contract and didnt reenlist. Now on the fire department we have to do alot of things that my knee doesnt like to well like climbing ladders while possibly holding another person, and crawling around on all kinds of surfaces trying to stay below smoke. We have people that leave the job all the time for injuries but if they are like me they have no other job skill besides construction.

I started looking into education benefits for veterans and came across vocational rehab. If its deemed you have a problem thats threatening your current work situation you can apply to go to school and learn a new skill. My wife who is a pharmacist suggested I try to apply for a plan to go to pharmacy school. I did and the plan was accepted. I am finishing up my pre reqs this fall and spring and will probably apply this fall for the following year.

When I was fresh out of high school as a national honor society student, blah blah blah, I applied to go to college pre med, was accepted, but life took me here. With pharmacy school and medical school both being 4 years I was going to ask to switch and fulfill what I had meant to do 15 years ago. It's not as easy now with a wife and kid, mortgage, car loans, but with the VA paying for a good portion, if they agreed to the switch, I figured I could be out of med school by 40, into a residency and still have a good 25 years to practice.

I love being a firefighter and if thats what I do until my body says no, then I will be fine with it. But I also appreciate the journey of learning. Becoming a medical doctor or DO, as it would be, seemed like the ultimate lifelong journey, one which I would never tire of.

Im not exactly sure where Ill end up, for now I have just over a year of undergrad which I am having fun with now that I actually give a crap about school. Thanks for the comments so far, Ill continue to take advise from people who are actually living this day to day.

You have a great story. Thanks for sharing. I can only imagine how it would feel to hear you can't keep doing what you love to do due to medical reasons. Still it's great to hear your pharmacy plan has been approved, as this seems to be a positive direction for your family and career. Clinical pharmacy seems pretty interesting because you get to apply your advance knowledge of pharmacology in a clinical setting to directly impact patient care. Perhaps you would like to research more on what it's like to be a clinical pharmacist?

You certainly have a big decision to make. I hope the upcoming meetings with your surgeon friend and ED Medical Director shed some light on your particular situation and make your decision a little less difficult. Best of luck to you!

 

[FirefighterDoc]

Why all the career changing in this thread OP? Do you want to be a full time medical professional or a firefighter? I get the sense that firefighting is very important to you. God bless you for keeping us safe, but to me it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to take all that money out in loans only to want prn work after you graduate just so you can still do firefighting full time.

Are you a paramedic by chance?

Its hard to explain until you've done it. Its a brotherhood, its a family. Its hard to leave all that behind. I for one will be keeping it up on a part time basis when i start school in the fall. Thats just a minimum of 4 shifts (12s). So i dont think that'll be too bad.

 

[NeuroLAX]

Its hard to explain until you've done it. Its a brotherhood, its a family. Its hard to leave all that behind. I for one will be keeping it up on a part time basis when i start school in the fall. Thats just a minimum of 4 shifts (12s). So i dont think that'll be too bad.

If you can manage and still keep your priorities in check, then more power to you. I can admire that dedication. I just hope you're able to recognize when to restrategize if things don't work out. Medical school is a huge commitment to neglect even the slightest due to extracurricular work interests. The material in medical school thus far hasn't been incredibly difficult all the time, but it is a huge cascade of knowledge that doesn't really ever stop. If you're stubborn or find it too difficult to let the extracurricular passion go, you can sink quickly.