Would love some input

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

thatguyinschool

Full Member
2+ Year Member
Joined
May 7, 2019
Messages
36
Reaction score
2
Hey guys! Been following the podiatry forums for quite some time now, and I was hesitant on this field because you are looking at feet all day and I figured how satisfying can that be?

Then recently I broke my ankle, and had to undergo surgery, this woke me up HUGE! I realized what a big role our feet do for us in our everyday lives, and how important they are.

I hated my orthopedic surgeon (he made a lot of mistakes), then I met this podiatrist and this guy was awesome! He said he loves his career, and it looks like an awesome work and life balance. This kind of made me think and feel like this was a wake up call for me. Then I went ahead and started looking at the job market, and I have been seeing openings in a desired city I want to move too once I am done with school, so I am thinking this is a sign for me to go down this route.

Even though theres a lot of negativity surrounded this profession on this forum, I went ahead and looked for other opinions. I looked on reddit, and those guys seem to love their profession, and I spoke to 2 podiatrist in person, and they seem to love it too. I mean I guess like any other job you will have the ones that love it and the ones that hate it, you have your ups and downs in every career.

However I feel that my grades are not agreeing with me..

GPA slightly shy of a 3.0 and sGPA about a 2.5-2.55, I made dumb mistakes and got two Fs which resulted in my GPA tanking.
No MCAT yet

Currently a senior in college just finished my first semester back after a leave of absence from my injury and I was able to pull these grades; ORGO A- after getting an F the semester before, Immunology B, Advance Molecular B+, and waiting on genetics. Was able to pull around a 3.3 GPA this semester, have another 15 credits left for next semester including Orgo 2, Evolution, Ecology, and Scientific writing, I might take one more science class as I need 1 more credit to fulfill my graduation requirements.

What do you guys think? If I can do well on this last semester with the last year showing a strong upward trend do I have a chance if I do good on the MCAT?
I spoke to a podiatry school (prefer to leave the name out), and was told that a 2.8 sGPA, and 495 MCAT score is enough to suffice an admission, however the F's kinda set me back. And I was looking into AACPM college look books, and I have seen some schools go as low as 2.3/2.4 sGPA.. So thats why I have some hope that I can get it. Have the passion for it, can start shadowing a doctor almost immediately.

Any input would be great! Thanks guys. My dream school would probably be NYCPM, since I am a New York native and would love the opportunity of cutting out the housing part of tuition so the loans will be somewhat less of a burden.

And any one who is currently a student or is a practicing DPM, can you elaborate on the career? Any input would be great!

Thanks guys, happy holidays, and most importantly stay safe!!

Members don't see this ad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Take what I say with a grain of salt, but your best chances are with C and SGPA being in 3.0 or above. 493 and above and you might get some love. Good upward trends are always looked at positively no matter what.

Pod schools are much more forgiving than MD / DO schools.

Work on your deficiencies, fix them, learn from them and you should be able to succeed and actually stay in school.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
best chances are with C
I just did not understand this part
I appreciate your input, I think I can do it and I am taking this year to see if I have what it takes

I know once I get into a school and start from a clean slate thinks will be very different.

Its either this or do an SMP but I think I can possibly have a chance to get in if I continue an upward trend and do good on the MCAT at least a 495.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Keep upward trend and get MCAT as high as possible.

Your mindset shouldn't be "How do I meet these bare minimum numbers.."

Your mindset should be "I want to kill this thing. I can be that student who scores high too."

Getting in and staying in are 2 completely different things. Keep developing good study habits, keep disciplining yourself.
Its ok to breathe in the high for a few weeks of finding a direction- its not ok to think it'll be sunshine and rainbows after you receive an acceptance.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Keep upward trend and get MCAT as high as possible.

Your mindset shouldn't be "How do I meet these bare minimum numbers.."

Your mindset should be "I want to kill this thing. I can be that student who scores high too."

Getting in and staying in are 2 completely different things. Keep developing good study habits, keep disciplining yourself.
Its ok to breathe in the high for a few weeks of finding a direction- its not ok to think it'll be sunshine and rainbows after you receive an acceptance.
Thank you so much for your input I think this is a great field for me and I know I am ready to develop new habits and study smarter and put more effort. Do you think I have a chance of going in with just one more semester?
 
Thank you so much for your input I think this is a great field for me and I know I am ready to develop new habits and study smarter and put more effort. Do you think I have a chance of going in with just one more semester?
Your GPAs are horrid but your upward trend is encouraging.

If you were to go into pod school right now as you sit- you would struggle to pass and stay in. Conservatively speaking.

The problem isn't getting in. NYCPM has plenty of seats to fill and won't hesitate to fill them.

The problem is realizing "I have the bare minimum to get in" but "I do not have the study habits to pass my 1st semester"

Long story short- yes, you will probably get into a school.
Yes, you also have a high chance of failing out after you get in.

Coming from someone who applied with low stats.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
While low MCAT and GPA can be a predictor of not doing well in school, it's not absolute. I am the perfect example of this. I will note I did a 2 year masters degree to which I had almost 4.0 in. So study habits must be changed DEFINITELY, but what you have from undergrad and MCAT are not absolute. You can still grow and change. I am an outlier so take my words with a grain of salt. You CAN do it if you put your mind to it. Good luck!
 
Your GPAs are horrid but your upward trend is encouraging.

If you were to go into pod school right now as you sit- you would struggle to pass and stay in. Conservatively speaking.

The problem isn't getting in. NYCPM has plenty of seats to fill and won't hesitate to fill them.

The problem is realizing "I have the bare minimum to get in" but "I do not have the study habits to pass my 1st semester"

Long story short- yes, you will probably get into a school.
Yes, you also have a high chance of failing out after you get in.

Coming from someone who applied with low stats.
Are you in pod school right now?
 
While low MCAT and GPA can be a predictor of not doing well in school, it's not absolute. I am the perfect example of this. I will note I did a 2 year masters degree to which I had almost 4.0 in. So study habits must be changed DEFINITELY, but what you have from undergrad and MCAT are not absolute. You can still grow and change. I am an outlier so take my words with a grain of salt. You CAN do it if you put your mind to it. Good luck!
Which SMP did you do and where do you plan on going now? Are you also planning on going to pod school?
 
Are you in pod school right now?
4th year

497 MCAT + 2.87sGPA when applied
3.5 non SMP Masters but don't think it helped much to sway admissions.

Still embarrassing seeing it typed out but passed everything and worked my ass off during clerkships.

Being harsh with you because I've been there and you can too. Just takes a lot of hard work.
 
Appreciate the share.
I fell into love with the field and eventually applied to DPM after debating between DPM, DO, and MD. This is my first time applying to any program and I decided DPM was the best fit for me. Though there is a lot of negativity on SDN regarding the field, there are pros and cons to every field and I believe that the DPM field is great (for the right person) and that it is only getting better. Also be aware that only a small percentage of DPMs actually visit and write on this forum.

I received acceptances at all schools I've interviewed at.
From what I can see, podiatry schools are somewhat selective, but not nearly as selective as an MD program.
I echo what others above say: it's really not about getting in, but more about staying in. The rigor and work ethic required to succeed in DPM are similar to those in DO and MD. Be honest with yourself and contemplate whether you have the ability to succeed in the DPM program.
As for getting in, I feel that you can get in as long as you show a positive upward trend and really explain any holes in your record.
thanks for your input! are you in podiatry school right now?
 
4th year

497 MCAT + 2.87sGPA when applied
3.5 non SMP Masters but don't think it helped much to sway admissions.

Still embarrassing seeing it typed out but passed everything and worked my ass off during clerkships.

Being harsh with you because I've been there and you can too. Just takes a lot of hard work.
i appreciate it thank you! If you don't mind me asking which school?
 
Members don't see this ad :)
And are you happy with your choice? Or do you feel like all other doors were closed? What did the DPMs you shadowed have to say?
 
And are you happy with your choice? Or do you feel like all other doors were closed? What did the DPMs you shadowed have to say?
Happier than if I had picked the other 3 options.

Went in knowing all of the cons- high debt, less reimbursement than equivalent work of MD/DO, increasing saturation, less respect.

All 3 DPMs told me to pick something else. They weren't trying to be mean. Looking back they were just trying to help the best way they knew how. They were coming from years of having done this. All their patients loved them and they were all competent and did their jobs with integrity.

Even then, they still told me to consider DO, Dental, PA. I don't blame them for it.

Your specialty and what you are allowed to do is locked in the day you sign your acceptance. You need to come to terms with the fact that you are not MD/DO and will only be working on the foot and ankle. You need to accept you may not use all of your surgical training even if you trained to do it well at a good residency program. You need to accept other MD/DO students/doctors will **** on you even after you reach attending status and have been in practice for years. You need to accept you will work longer, harder hours at lesser desirable locations to meet the same salary they get.

If you can accept the above, then jump and make the most of it. If not, work harder to go MD/DO or pick something completely different.

Medicine is overhyped and played out to an extent. In the SDN echo chamber its even worse how they put being a doctor on a pedestal.

Make sure you understand fully what you're signing up for. The sacrifices and delayed gratification don't stop after you get in or even graduate or even complete residency.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Honestly, SDN is more of a representation of everything that is wrong with medicine than anything else. It's good for gathering some information that would be hard to find elsewhere, but you have to realize that its community is absolutely toxic.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Which SMP did you do and where do you plan on going now? Are you also planning on going to pod school?

It was not a SMP (1 year), it was an actual 2 years Masters of Science in Health program, a degree.
I'm a 3rd year podiatry student.
 
Happier than if I had picked the other 3 options.

Went in knowing all of the cons- high debt, less reimbursement than equivalent work of MD/DO, increasing saturation, less respect.

All 3 DPMs told me to pick something else. They weren't trying to be mean. Looking back they were just trying to help the best way they knew how. They were coming from years of having done this. All their patients loved them and they were all competent and did their jobs with integrity.

Even then, they still told me to consider DO, Dental, PA. I don't blame them for it.

Your specialty and what you are allowed to do is locked in the day you sign your acceptance. You need to come to terms with the fact that you are not MD/DO and will only be working on the foot and ankle. You need to accept you may not use all of your surgical training even if you trained to do it well at a good residency program. You need to accept other MD/DO students/doctors will **** on you even after you reach attending status and have been in practice for years. You need to accept you will work longer, harder hours at lesser desirable locations to meet the same salary they get.

If you can accept the above, then jump and make the most of it. If not, work harder to go MD/DO or pick something completely different.

Medicine is overhyped and played out to an extent. In the SDN echo chamber its even worse how they put being a doctor on a pedestal.

Make sure you understand fully what you're signing up for. The sacrifices and delayed gratification don't stop after you get in or even graduate or even complete residency.
Do you regret your decision?
And also is it hard to get matched for residency? I hard there are shortages?
Also wanted to know if you know how long it takes graduates to find a job and where they begin working?
 
Honestly, SDN is more of a representation of everything that is wrong with medicine than anything else. It's good for gathering some information that would be hard to find elsewhere, but you have to realize that its community is absolutely toxic.
I read some forums on reddit, and those guys love being podiatrist, so I have no idea what to believe.

Are you also attempting to be a podiatrist?
 
And also is it hard to get matched for residency? I hard there are shortages?--This isn't true, we had close to 100% placement rate recently.

Also wanted to know if you know how long it takes graduates to find a job and where they begin working?--Most people find a job or sign a contract during residency; others find it a few months after graduating. Some take more time to find a job that is more suitable for them. Those that are open to moving around the country and not picky about a location have better chances of finding a job soon after residency.
 
Honestly, SDN is more of a representation of everything that is wrong with medicine than anything else. It's good for gathering some information that would be hard to find elsewhere, but you have to realize that its community is absolutely toxic.

SDN is what you make of it. For the most part, everyone here (not just the Pod forum) tries to help that seek it. As you know, real-life experiences and speaking to an actual person of interest have more value than just reading through the forums. If for some reason, you do not like an answer or don't receive the feedback you desired, then that shouldn't be (as long as they are not breaking the TOS) reflective of the SDN community as a whole because we are all busy people and have a life, and only use this site when we can.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Merry Christmas.

(1) Be careful of seeing fate in what is merely happenstance.

(2) Geographic limitations can restrict educational and occupational opportunities.

(3) You haven't shadowed enough till you've met a podiatrist who tells you not to do it.

(4) In general, no one who drops out every comes back here to tell their story. Its a form of selection bias.

(5) My suspicion - for every 4 podiatrists we produce there's a person out there who is $20-100K in debt and not a podiatrist.

(6) Prior academic success is probably correlated with future academic success. What I can't say enough for is:
-a stable personal life
-a strong sense of purpose.

Chronically sick? Problems with your family, your parents, your girlfriend. Always making excuses? Well, I was late because my car broke down because the change oil light had been on for a year because I'm just too busy to make a plan to read a book for 20 minutes while someone changes my oil. There's no time for a sideshow in the first few years of school. Your life is spoken for.

Let's break up this monologue with a funny story.
Late for a test so you illegally sprawl your car across the handicapped spots at the front of the school so the police boot your car? Kid you not a classmate did that. The "funniest" of a 100 things they did wrong in school. The school ultimately graduated them and when I looked them up the other day they'd surrendered their residency license while under investigation by their state board of podiatry to avoid further censure. No one thinks they are that person.

Break easily when something bad comes your way? Have difficulty with the fact that you were previously the top and now you're in the middle or bottom? Unable to pick yourself up when you fall down. You're going to to get knocked down and I'm not even referring to the bullcrap things. I thought I was a great 1st year for about a week. My 3rd year pulled me aside and carefully and kindly explained for an hour how I was failing him. This pathway will knock you down..

How about another joke.
The dean of DMU once told a story about students coming to his office to drop out. He described it as like the scene from Rudy where everyone is coming in to lay down their jersey. To be fair, this was the 1980's. Something like that.. No one thinks it will be them.

(7) The price tag to graduate from my alma mater has increased $40K in less than 10 years. I did not see any breaking news flashes from the podiatry schools that they would be reducing tuition 11% when Medicare announced they were going to cut procedural reimbursement that much. A last minute bill may or may not prevent this. I'm not sure this bulletpoint perfectly fits, but it definitely needs to be pointed out to everyone occasionally that there really isn't any connection between what goes on in professional podiatry and what schools think their service is worth. Your debt will be a heavy anchor around your neck and I'm very suspicious you aren't receiving $40K more of value than I did...

(7) In general, everyone in this profession ultimately tastes the good with the unpleasant. My hope - that you are forewarned. It ain't all rainbows. There are things that are desperately wrong. Things where you'll have to fight for everything you get. I'm trying not to say "unfair" cause I hate that word. You can dismiss the attendings here. You can listen only to the things you like. You may never experience some of the things that have happened to people, but you will know someone who has.

(8) I've been reading this forum a long time so I sometimes find myself responding to things that I don't think people say anymore. Recognize this profession for what it is.

If you think that somehow you are going to be a hospitalist managing insulin - you will be in for disappointment.
If you can only be happy practicing some limited specific part of the profession. You may have a hard road to walk.
Only want to be "the podiatry ortho group traumatologist" or want a practice dedicated entirely to total ankle replacement. Good luck.

A generalized appreciation/enjoyment for the broadness of the field will serve you better.

(9) The vast majority of surgical specialties operate more than the average podiatrist operates.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Merry Christmas.

(1) Be careful of seeing fate in what is merely happenstance.

(2) Geographic limitations can restrict educational and occupational opportunities.

(3) You haven't shadowed enough till you've met a podiatrist who tells you not to do it.

(4) In general, no one who drops out every comes back here to tell their story. Its a form of selection bias.

(5) My suspicion - for every 4 podiatrists we produce there's a person out there who is $20-100K in debt and not a podiatrist.

(6) Prior academic success is probably correlated with future academic success. What I can't say enough for is:
-a stable personal life
-a strong sense of purpose.

Chronically sick? Problems with your family, your parents, your girlfriend. Always making excuses? Well, I was late because my car broke down because the change oil light had been on for a year because I'm just too busy to make a plan to read a book for 20 minutes while someone changes my oil. There's no time for a sideshow in the first few years of school. Your life is spoken for.

Let's break up this monologue with a funny story.
Late for a test so you illegally sprawl your car across the handicapped spots at the front of the school so the police boot your car? Kid you not a classmate did that. The "funniest" of a 100 things they did wrong in school. The school ultimately graduated them and when I looked them up the other day they'd surrendered their residency license while under investigation by their state board of podiatry to avoid further censure. No one thinks they are that person.

Break easily when something bad comes your way? Have difficulty with the fact that you were previously the top and now you're in the middle or bottom? Unable to pick yourself up when you fall down. You're going to to get knocked down and I'm not even referring to the bullcrap things. I thought I was a great 1st year for about a week. My 3rd year pulled me aside and carefully and kindly explained for an hour how I was failing him. This pathway will knock you down..

How about another joke.
The dean of DMU once told a story about students coming to his office to drop out. He described it as like the scene from Rudy where everyone is coming in to lay down their jersey. To be fair, this was the 1980's. Something like that.. No one thinks it will be them.

(7) The price tag to graduate from my alma mater has increased $40K in less than 10 years. I did not see any breaking news flashes from the podiatry schools that they would be reducing tuition 11% when Medicare announced they were going to cut procedural reimbursement that much. A last minute bill may or may not prevent this. I'm not sure this bulletpoint perfectly fits, but it definitely needs to be pointed out to everyone occasionally that there really isn't any connection between what goes on in professional podiatry and what schools think their service is worth. Your debt will be a heavy anchor around your neck and I'm very suspicious you aren't receiving $40K more of value than I did...

(7) In general, everyone in this profession ultimately tastes the good with the unpleasant. My hope - that you are forewarned. It ain't all rainbows. There are things that are desperately wrong. Things where you'll have to fight for everything you get. I'm trying not to say "unfair" cause I hate that word. You can dismiss the attendings here. You can listen only to the things you like. You may never experience some of the things that have happened to people, but you will know someone who has.

(8) I've been reading this forum a long time so I sometimes find myself responding to things that I don't think people say anymore. Recognize this profession for what it is.

If you think that somehow you are going to be a hospitalist managing insulin - you will be in for disappointment.
If you can only be happy practicing some limited specific part of the profession. You may have a hard road to walk.
Only want to be "the podiatry ortho group traumatologist" or want a practice dedicated entirely to total ankle replacement. Good luck.

A generalized appreciation/enjoyment for the broadness of the field will serve you better.

(9) The vast majority of surgical specialties operate more than the average podiatrist operates.
As someone who plans on applying to pod schools soon, thank you for providing such a detailed, realistic take on this profession.

If you don't mind me asking, I have a couple questions. Would you recommend this profession to students (assuming the students take your advice and are forewarned of the negatives)?

In your opinion, do you think the positives of this profession outweigh the negatives?
 
I have been looking into going down the podiatric route this past month and a half-ish. Finding quality information has been difficult, and I have been advised to avoid this website but I keep coming back for some reason lol. Let me share what my understanding is thus far. As others have said, take everything everyone is saying, myself included especially since I am not even a pod med student, with a grain of salt. The pod students and podiatrists reading this please let me know what I got wrong in my assessment so far.

1.) Podiatrists are physicians that specialize in foot and ankle pathology and correction.

Keyword in that sentence physician. This means pod school is med school, not med school lite (an easier version of med school). As others have said, it's going to be just as hard as MD/DO school.

But it's also important to know that, yes, this is one way of becoming a physician and you just need to appreciate and accept that you'll be a foot and ankle specialist. The best way of figuring this out is by shadowing.

You will find that some people on here have developed an inferiority complex and don't consider themselves physicians since they went the podiatric route. This is false technically and legally. This link will take you to a Reddit thread, where the first comment, a user named Holiday bike, explains the legality of podiatrists being officially recognized as physicians. He also provides the documentation.



Granted, in this reddit thread, you'll notice how many people are arrogant to the fact that podiatrists are physicians. This is mainly because many people, even in the medical field, are unaware that this route to medicine exists.

So please note, podiatrists are physicians who specialize in foot and ankle care. They are NOT a profession that claims the mantle or title of a physician even though legally and technically, they are not. An example of these includes nurse practitioners, nurse anesthetists, chiropractors, naturopathic physicians, and even physicians assistants.


Here is another source that clarifies the legality of podiatrists being officially recognized as physicians in the eyes of the law and healthcare system. It states that "Podiatrists are defined as physicians by the federal government and in most states. In the few states that do not use the term “physician” in the definition, podiatrists are licensed to diagnose and treat the foot, ankle, and lower extremity." I will leave the link below.



You have to make sure you're OK for not having the same "status" or "prestige" as being an MD/DO. That much is true, as evidenced by that reddit thread, many people within medicine don't know podiatrists are physicians. Additionally, you're locked into doing a foot and ankle surgical residency, meaning you can't switch into another specialty as a podiatrist.

2.) Let's talk supply and demand. This is what I have found.

Let me know if anything I am about to say below doesn't make sense.

If you venture enough on this forum for podiatry, you'll find that people make podiatry sound like it's pharmacy, without showing data or studies. I use three sources to determine what the market is in my consideration, the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), the Health Resources & Services Administration, and the American Podiatric Medical Association.

The first source I went to was Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS).

Allegedly, BLS changes their numbers all of the time. The link below has an article is echoing the BLS report for podiatry in 2018. This article in the link below states that "The Bureau of Labor Statistics projects 6.0 percent employment growth for podiatrists between 2018 and 2028. In that period, an estimated 600 jobs should open up."

I am using this article to tell you this because I can only get the BLS report for podiatry starting in 2019, not the 2018 report. And the 2020 one isn't out yet. This article uses the 2018 report.

https://money.usnews.com/careers/be...iRCT6laWDaHjmk_pwyir2w-oDWGf13w3qo6DFQhZ8sCR0

Now if we take a look at the report from 2019, it states the job growth rate is 0% for 2019 to 2029, which is a stark contrast from the 2018 report that I just showed you.

What's the point of me telling you this? It's that it seems to be correct in the notion that the BLS reports change pretty rapidly. Now I am going to be hypocritical here since I hate anecdotes, but I have heard from various people that BLS isn't too reliable for supply and demand, and what I just presented sort of proves that point. But I will digress and will try to give more rhetoric.

So here's a report from the Health Resources & Services Administration in the link below. According to this, by 2030, the United States will have a shortage of 4,420 podiatric physicians. This government agency has numerous reports about supply and demand for other healthcare professions as well.


Here is another study that suggests that there will be an increased demand for podiatric physicians. This is study was conducted by the American Podiatric Medical Association.



So I am assuming the market is somewhat decent for podiatrists based on the data from Health Resources & Services Administration and the American Podiatric Medical Association.



3.) Lets talk about that cash money.
I don't know how close I am to reality when it comes to salaries for podiatrists. But I will try my best.

In short, how much you'll make as a podiatrist depends. It depends on a great many things, but podiatry income isn't as consistent as the other medical specialties. I am not too sure as to why that is.

If you venture google, you'll quickly notice that podiatry salaries are literally everywhere. Some say it's as low as 75,000 and some will go as high as 500,000. I will explain my sources below, but it seems like you'll start off after residency starting significantly lower than $200,000 dollars, but getting to that number and surpassing it is doable as your career progresses.

I would advise against using websites like salary.com, ziprecruiter, and payscale.

Here are my sources:

This first one is a source from the 2018 American College of Foot and Ankle Surgeons. This was provided by our pal Dexter.
This is from the 2018 ACFAS survey, although the sample size is small; it does give an overall picture. But don't take my word or anyone here on SDN..go do your own findings by talking to real ppl in this field.

View attachment 278025
346 people took this survey, and there are supposed to be 22,000 podiatrists in the US. Take with this study what you will. I am not sure if this survey carries any significance but I would imagine it's at least somewhat accurate.

Additionally, the American College of Foot and Ankle Surgeons reported in 2018 that their members reported salary has increased by 7.8%. Here is the link below.


So then there is the MGMA report. Honestly, I have heard too many things to make comments on it. I heard it is supposed to be very accurate. I have also heard that MGMA only surveys podiatrists working in the hospital, and NOT podiatrists working in private practice or orthopedic groups or multispecialty groups. I have also heard it includes salary and bonuses. I would love for others to chime in their thoughts on the MGMA report, I'll leave the link here.


Here I go with anecdotes again. People on here say that there is no way of telling how much you'll make. It depends. It all depends on where you work, what your schedule is like, where you live, etc. The sources I present above aren't there to try to say that pods make the bag, but they are there to present the most reliable or accurate sources I could find and are there for you to consider.

This is my guesstimate. Salary will likely start out between 120,000-150,000 and should move up as time progresses as you see more patients and/or land better gigs to match 200,000 or more.


4.) Let's talk surgery
Im going to make a hypocrite of myself more by using anecdotes. I cannot find data online about how much surgery the average podiatrist does to back up what I am saying, so take this with a load of salt.

The APMA really tries to sell the profession by saying you work in the clinic AND the operating room. Based on my observation both by shadowing and using this website, this is what my understanding is.

My understanding is that the surgical component of podiatry has a wide plethora of different procedures, corrections, and follow up procedures. This makes the surgical aspect sound like fun.

H o w e v e r

Allegedly, the quantity of surgical procedures is low. You won't be doing a lot of surgery as a podiatrist, most of the time. Thats the vibe I'm getting from SDN and from my shadowing experience.

There are some cases where if you can land a gig somewhere, whether it be a hospital gig or an ortho group gig where you'll get a lot of surgical cases sent your way. Also, it'll depend on how good of a residency you get after med school. If you land a good residency after med school where you are well trained, you might be able to do more surgeries since you are comfortable doing them. This can increase your chances of landing a job that may have higher than average surgical traffic. But there are still no guarantees.

Additionally, foot surgery is the lowest paying surgery in medicine, and this is due to medicare. Ankle surgery pays much more but isn't as frequent as doing foot procedures. So, many podiatrists actually prefer to not do surgery since they could be making more money working in the clinic than taking up time in the OR doing a lengthy procedure that pays little.

This is my anecdotal source about all of what I just said from SDN.

I keep reading ridiculous and repetitive posts regarding how much surgery these young docs are going to perform when they get out, how much money everyone is going to make or supposed to make, etc., etc., etc.

Well it's time for a dose of reality. Surgery 101 class is now in session:

Everyone is tired of hearing about the "good old days" when surgery payed VERY well, documentation was minimal and government intervention was minimal. Now welcome to 2017......things have changed. Reimbursements suck, you are told what to document and how to document, etc., and the government is constantly adding more rules and regulations.

Years ago there were basically three payment models (forgetting about HMO capitation). There was the Medicare fee schedule, Medicaid fee schedule and private insurance. As a general rule, most private insurers paid above Medicare rate. Some were 110% of Medicare, some used the "UCR" formula which was usually and customary fee and some insurers were VERY generous, and paid very well, until doctors took full advantage.

In 2017 and moving forward, the majority, if not all insurers are paying at Medicare level, or some even less. Why? It's simple......because they can!!! If you want to be participating in their plans, you've got to follow their rules and accept their payments. Otherwise the patients will be directed to a participating doctor, and not you. In short, they've got you by the gonads.

So let's continue with reality. You hear those bitter corns, calluses and toenail DPMs telling you that there's no money in surgery, and every day those comments are getting more accurate. There can be money in surgery, but only if there is high volume.

Here's some sobering examples. These are some fees that are the current Medicare reimbursement, and most if not all private insurers:

28805---transmetatarsal amputation pays $757.97
28285---hammertoe surgery/arthroplasty/fusion of a toe pays $390.47 (in a facility)
28296---bunionectomy with distal metatarsal osteotomy pays $532.23
27702---Total ankle arthroplasty with implant pays $995.19
11057---trimming greater than 4 calluses pays $66.39

Remember, an endodontist gets well over $1,000 for an uncomplicated root canal
Remember, your appliance repairman makes a few hundred dollars for walking in your door
Remember, your attorney bills $525.00 an hour, and bills for EVERY email, text and call.

So you are well trained and perform a TAR (total ankle replacement). You travel to the hospital (that's time), your case is bumped an hour (that's time), you spend 2-3 hours in the OR to complete the case (that's time), you stay at the hospital to complete paper work, check the patient in recovery and speak with the family (that's time), you travel to your office to see afternoon patients (that's time) and then you see the patient for weeks to months post operatively. And you can NOT bill for any routine follow up visits for 90 days following the surgery. Post op visits for 90 days are included.

So you made $995 bucks on the case. Spread that over all the time above, including the 90 day post op global time and it 'ain't much bucky.

So you "figured" out how to make more money. You'll charge extra for the screws, plates, etc. when you perform your bunionectomy. Sorry... the hardware is inclusive to the procedure and is not separately payable. Or you figured out a way to "unbundle" the surgery so instead of one procedure, you can fragment it into several procedures. Wrong again bucky, that borders on illegal as per the False Claims Act, and most insurers have a computer based program that "edits" the claims via the CCI---correct coding initiative that won't allow certain codes to be billed with other codes, since unbundling is fraudulent.

So while you're at the hospital making a few bucks, your partner who only does palliative care is trimming some calluses and making over 60 bucks a pop. He sees 20 patients and makes over $1200 bucks doing brainless work, with little to no complications or follow up. And you've got to follow your surgical patient for 90 days for many procedures, at a whopping ZERO additional dollars.

Yes, I perform surgery. Yes, I'm ABFAS board certified. Yes, I enjoy surgery much more than any other aspect of care, but I FULLY understand that it's an added service of the practice, but not necessarily the most economically efficient way to make money.

And please don't make money by selling your patients useless crap. Vitamins for neuropathy, creams for all kinds of crap, laser surgery for nails that doesn't work, topical nail antifungals that work no better than Vicks Vapor rub, or sell every patient a pair of orthotics when they can do fine with OTC products.

Is this all doom and gloom? Not at all, it's reality. My point is that surgery is great and macho, but it's not necessarily a huge money maker when you consider the big picture. You will be told by practice management people how to make money selling, billing too much, etc. DO NOT FOLLOW THEIR ADVICE. Work hard, build a high volume practice and be a professional. Treat patients well, do the right thing and be ready to put in the hours. Nights, weekends, early mornings, etc. Because there IS NO legitimate shortcut. I can name you dozens that took a short cut to make money and they are all paying penalties, lost their licenses and are in jail.

And that's the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Everything I just said about surgery could be wrong, but this is the vibe I am getting. I wish I could find data about this. I bring up the topic of surgery since, to many, it seems like one of the selling points of podiatry. DO physicians have a hard time landing a surgical specialty as is, and people are estimating this will get worse for them after the residency merger. Granted, it hasn't happened yet and there is no way to tell for sure. But with podiatry, yes, you will be a surgeon in practice it just seems like you won't be doing too much surgery.


Conclusion

I hope this helped, and if I am wrong about some of what I said, I would appreciate corrections.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Do you regret your decision?
And also is it hard to get matched for residency? I hard there are shortages?
Also wanted to know if you know how long it takes graduates to find a job and where they begin working?
No, I do not regret my decision. There are days when I wake up knowing I could have owned my own house by now, making a (+) salary, and not having to deal with pre-pods preaching gospel when they are not even accepted yet. But overall, I do not regret my decision.

Residency match depends on numerous variables. It is impossible to give you a one size fits all answer.
GPA, class rank are weed outs during clerkship applications. Once you get a clerkship- work ethic, team player mentality, teachability and being a normal human being trump all.

There are shortages because you are reading posts from 7 years ago.
Numbers have just equalized but a new school is opening so expect another shortage in 5 years. Also- having enough programs does NOT mean every student is matching into a quality program.

Can't answer your "How long" job. That again depends on a myriad of things. How well trained are you? How well can you market yourself? Are your attendings actively helping you find a job? What are you trying to market yourself as? What location are you willing to move to in order to take a job? Are you willing to move to a nice location but only be known as the wound care/diabetic guy your whole life? It is different for everyone and impossible to give you an answer.

Don't go into this field looking for guaranteed projections. We can't guarantee anything for you. Anyone who does is lying. When you jump, just be ready.
 
Last edited:
2.) Let's talk supply and demand. This is what I have found.

Let me know if anything I am about to say below doesn't make sense.

If you venture enough on this forum for podiatry, you'll find that people make podiatry sound like it's pharmacy, without showing data or studies. I use three sources to determine what the market is in my consideration, the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), the Health Resources & Services Administration, and the American Podiatric Medical Association.

The first source I went to was Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS).

Allegedly, BLS changes their numbers all of the time. The link below has an article is echoing the BLS report for podiatry in 2018. This article in the link below states that "The Bureau of Labor Statistics projects 6.0 percent employment growth for podiatrists between 2018 and 2028. In that period, an estimated 600 jobs should open up."

I am using this article to tell you this because I can only get the BLS report for podiatry starting in 2019, not the 2018 report. And the 2020 one isn't out yet. This article uses the 2018 report.

https://money.usnews.com/careers/be...iRCT6laWDaHjmk_pwyir2w-oDWGf13w3qo6DFQhZ8sCR0

Now if we take a look at the report from 2019, it states the job growth rate is 0% for 2019 to 2029, which is a stark contrast from the 2018 report that I just showed you.

What's the point of me telling you this? It's that it seems to be correct in the notion that the BLS reports change pretty rapidly. Now I am going to be hypocritical here since I hate anecdotes, but I have heard from various people that BLS isn't too reliable for supply and demand, and what I just presented sort of proves that point. But I will digress and will try to give more rhetoric.

So here's a report from the Health Resources & Services Administration in the link below. According to this, by 2030, the United States will have a shortage of 4,420 podiatric physicians. This government agency has numerous reports about supply and demand for other healthcare professions as well.


Here is another study that suggests that there will be an increased demand for podiatric physicians. This is study was conducted by the American Podiatric Medical Association.



So I am assuming the market is somewhat decent for podiatrists based on the data from Health Resources & Services Administration and the American Podiatric Medical Association.



3.) Lets talk about that cash money.


This is my guesstimate. Salary will likely start out between 120,000-150,000 and should move up as time progresses as you see more patients and/or land better gigs to match 200,000 or more.


4.) Let's talk surgery

Conclusion


I hope this helped, and if I am wrong about some of what I said, I would appreciate corrections.
1. Semantics. Accurate enough.

2. Once/if you enter school, you'll realize it is better to take whatever the APMA pumps out with a grain of salt. If I've insulted anyone on here who is in line with them, I sincerely apologize. But I will not retract this statement.

You quoted a study done in 2008 from an organization that is pro-podiatry. Do you really think the people in high positions who have made a nice cushion for themselves would tell you to your face whether saturation is increasing? No. They wouldn't. APMA is a fantastic organization in concept. In reality, their biggest limiting factor are the people who run it and their personal interests. This goes for every DPM organization. If you don't believe me, just pay attention the type of people who run for APMSA positions in your class. Some are outstanding and are genuinely there to help better the field. Some are there purely for themselves. Now imagine those same malignant students in actual positions of power. Do you get it now?

3. Your salary quote does not take into account people getting shafted in associate gigs that are being offered 75k with no benefits. Yes, there are people working at Kaisers with a 200k base pay + benefits + RVU bonus structure, people who have opened up their own offices raking in 300k+ etc. Sounds tempting as a pre-pod or student doesn't it? Different when YOU are the one having to pick up the phone to call places and ask for a job, walking in with your resume, marketing yourself, and negotiating your own contract. It sounds easy and guaranteed as a pre-pod/student. Its not. Sheer dumb luck could land you a job within weeks or you could be the best trained from a top notch program and still job hunting months out of residency.

4. Accurate enough.

I am not trying to fry you. Call me jaded, and I havn't even started residency yet. I get why the older DPMs on this board are how they are after being in that long.

You've looked into this and have chanced upon some half truths already which is more than what most pre-pods will do.

Just be aware that what you see, hear, and read is much more nuanced when you are wading in it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
2. Once/if you enter school, you'll realize it is better to take whatever the APMA pumps out with a grain of salt. If I've insulted anyone on here who is in line with them, I sincerely apologize. But I will not retract this statement.
I said this literally in the back of my head as I typed that, I knew I should've said there's a very decent chance of bias there. You're right.


3. Your salary quote does not take into account people getting shafted in associate gigs that are being offered 75k with no benefits.
Yup, that is a scary thought. I did the best I could to find the most accurate studies about podiatry salaries.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I have been looking into going down the podiatric route this past month and a half-ish. Finding quality information has been difficult, and I have been advised to avoid this website but I keep coming back for some reason lol. Let me share what my understanding is thus far. As others have said, take everything everyone is saying, myself included especially since I am not even a pod med student, with a grain of salt. The pod students and podiatrists reading this please let me know what I got wrong in my assessment so far.

1.) Podiatrists are physicians that specialize in foot and ankle pathology and correction.

Keyword in that sentence physician. This means pod school is med school, not med school lite (an easier version of med school). As others have said, it's going to be just as hard as MD/DO school.

But it's also important to know that, yes, this is one way of becoming a physician and you just need to appreciate and accept that you'll be a foot and ankle specialist. The best way of figuring this out is by shadowing.

You will find that some people on here have developed an inferiority complex and don't consider themselves physicians since they went the podiatric route. This is false technically and legally. This link will take you to a Reddit thread, where the first comment, a user named Holiday bike, explains the legality of podiatrists being officially recognized as physicians. He also provides the documentation.



Granted, in this reddit thread, you'll notice how many people are arrogant to the fact that podiatrists are physicians. This is mainly because many people, even in the medical field, are unaware that this route to medicine exists.

So please note, podiatrists are physicians who specialize in foot and ankle care. They are NOT a profession that claims the mantle or title of a physician even though legally and technically, they are not. An example of these includes nurse practitioners, nurse anesthetists, chiropractors, naturopathic physicians, and even physicians assistants.


Here is another source that clarifies the legality of podiatrists being officially recognized as physicians in the eyes of the law and healthcare system. It states that "Podiatrists are defined as physicians by the federal government and in most states. In the few states that do not use the term “physician” in the definition, podiatrists are licensed to diagnose and treat the foot, ankle, and lower extremity." I will leave the link below.



You have to make sure you're OK for not having the same "status" or "prestige" as being an MD/DO. That much is true, as evidenced by that reddit thread, many people within medicine don't know podiatrists are physicians. Additionally, you're locked into doing a foot and ankle surgical residency, meaning you can't switch into another specialty as a podiatrist.

2.) Let's talk supply and demand. This is what I have found.

Let me know if anything I am about to say below doesn't make sense.

If you venture enough on this forum for podiatry, you'll find that people make podiatry sound like it's pharmacy, without showing data or studies. I use three sources to determine what the market is in my consideration, the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), the Health Resources & Services Administration, and the American Podiatric Medical Association.

The first source I went to was Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS).

Allegedly, BLS changes their numbers all of the time. The link below has an article is echoing the BLS report for podiatry in 2018. This article in the link below states that "The Bureau of Labor Statistics projects 6.0 percent employment growth for podiatrists between 2018 and 2028. In that period, an estimated 600 jobs should open up."

I am using this article to tell you this because I can only get the BLS report for podiatry starting in 2019, not the 2018 report. And the 2020 one isn't out yet. This article uses the 2018 report.

https://money.usnews.com/careers/be...iRCT6laWDaHjmk_pwyir2w-oDWGf13w3qo6DFQhZ8sCR0

Now if we take a look at the report from 2019, it states the job growth rate is 0% for 2019 to 2029, which is a stark contrast from the 2018 report that I just showed you.

What's the point of me telling you this? It's that it seems to be correct in the notion that the BLS reports change pretty rapidly. Now I am going to be hypocritical here since I hate anecdotes, but I have heard from various people that BLS isn't too reliable for supply and demand, and what I just presented sort of proves that point. But I will digress and will try to give more rhetoric.

So here's a report from the Health Resources & Services Administration in the link below. According to this, by 2030, the United States will have a shortage of 4,420 podiatric physicians. This government agency has numerous reports about supply and demand for other healthcare professions as well.


Here is another study that suggests that there will be an increased demand for podiatric physicians. This is study was conducted by the American Podiatric Medical Association.



So I am assuming the market is somewhat decent for podiatrists based on the data from Health Resources & Services Administration and the American Podiatric Medical Association.



3.) Lets talk about that cash money.
I don't know how close I am to reality when it comes to salaries for podiatrists. But I will try my best.

In short, how much you'll make as a podiatrist depends. It depends on a great many things, but podiatry income isn't as consistent as the other medical specialties. I am not too sure as to why that is.

If you venture google, you'll quickly notice that podiatry salaries are literally everywhere. Some say it's as low as 75,000 and some will go as high as 500,000. I will explain my sources below, but it seems like you'll start off after residency starting significantly lower than $200,000 dollars, but getting to that number and surpassing it is doable as your career progresses.

I would advise against using websites like salary.com, ziprecruiter, and payscale.

Here are my sources:

This first one is a source from the 2018 American College of Foot and Ankle Surgeons. This was provided by our pal Dexter.

346 people took this survey, and there are supposed to be 22,000 podiatrists in the US. Take with this study what you will. I am not sure if this survey carries any significance but I would imagine it's at least somewhat accurate.

Additionally, the American College of Foot and Ankle Surgeons reported in 2018 that their members reported salary has increased by 7.8%. Here is the link below.


So then there is the MGMA report. Honestly, I have heard too many things to make comments on it. I heard it is supposed to be very accurate. I have also heard that MGMA only surveys podiatrists working in the hospital, and NOT podiatrists working in private practice or orthopedic groups or multispecialty groups. I have also heard it includes salary and bonuses. I would love for others to chime in their thoughts on the MGMA report, I'll leave the link here.


Here I go with anecdotes again. People on here say that there is no way of telling how much you'll make. It depends. It all depends on where you work, what your schedule is like, where you live, etc. The sources I present above aren't there to try to say that pods make the bag, but they are there to present the most reliable or accurate sources I could find and are there for you to consider.

This is my guesstimate. Salary will likely start out between 120,000-150,000 and should move up as time progresses as you see more patients and/or land better gigs to match 200,000 or more.


4.) Let's talk surgery
Im going to make a hypocrite of myself more by using anecdotes. I cannot find data online about how much surgery the average podiatrist does to back up what I am saying, so take this with a load of salt.

The APMA really tries to sell the profession by saying you work in the clinic AND the operating room. Based on my observation both by shadowing and using this website, this is what my understanding is.

My understanding is that the surgical component of podiatry has a wide plethora of different procedures, corrections, and follow up procedures. This makes the surgical aspect sound like fun.

H o w e v e r

Allegedly, the quantity of surgical procedures is low. You won't be doing a lot of surgery as a podiatrist, most of the time. Thats the vibe I'm getting from SDN and from my shadowing experience.

There are some cases where if you can land a gig somewhere, whether it be a hospital gig or an ortho group gig where you'll get a lot of surgical cases sent your way. Also, it'll depend on how good of a residency you get after med school. If you land a good residency after med school where you are well trained, you might be able to do more surgeries since you are comfortable doing them. This can increase your chances of landing a job that may have higher than average surgical traffic. But there are still no guarantees.

Additionally, foot surgery is the lowest paying surgery in medicine, and this is due to medicare. Ankle surgery pays much more but isn't as frequent as doing foot procedures. So, many podiatrists actually prefer to not do surgery since they could be making more money working in the clinic than taking up time in the OR doing a lengthy procedure that pays little.

This is my anecdotal source about all of what I just said from SDN.



Everything I just said about surgery could be wrong, but this is the vibe I am getting. I wish I could find data about this. I bring up the topic of surgery since, to many, it seems like one of the selling points of podiatry. DO physicians have a hard time landing a surgical specialty as is, and people are estimating this will get worse for them after the residency merger. Granted, it hasn't happened yet and there is no way to tell for sure. But with podiatry, yes, you will be a surgeon in practice it just seems like you won't be doing too much surgery.


Conclusion

I hope this helped, and if I am wrong about some of what I said, I would appreciate corrections.

With all that said, have you confirmed your decision to pursue podiatry? I remember you were debating a while back whether or not to pursue it.
 
I said this literally in the back of my head as I typed that, I knew I should've said there's a very decent chance of bias there. You're right.



Yup, that is a scary thought. I did the best I could to find the most accurate studies about podiatry salaries.

Nice job gathering all those data. With the addition of what Weirdy has above, I think you or anyone else thinking about this field should be able to make a decision, either for it or not. For anyone else, remember to shadow multiple DPMs before deciding.

Good luck!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
As someone who plans on applying to pod schools soon, thank you for providing such a detailed, realistic take on this profession.

If you don't mind me asking, I have a couple questions. Would you recommend this profession to students (assuming the students take your advice and are forewarned of the negatives)?

In your opinion, do you think the positives of this profession outweigh the negatives?

Hi - not ignoring you. Just trying to come up with something new to say.

My big thing lately about the profession for new people entering - I don't know how much more expensive it can get.

I get it. DO school is more expensive. USC dental school is more expensive. But when I started this I remember thinking - no one will pay $40K a year tuition to do this. And now we are there. While there are hospital employed people and owners who do well - there is a certain level of income where people tap out in this profession just in general.

At some point in time this will just be a job for you. You show up. You grind. You try to find enjoyment in it. In general, my day to day ain't bad at all. Your day to day can be shaped by the "bad" things we talk about. If your day to day is all stuff you hate because that's all anyone will refer you - that can grate on you. Hate your partner. Know you are doing cases for free - all a grind.

But, you don't have to go to school for 7 years and $300-350K in debt to have a nice job. If you go $350K in debt for this you will be writing big checks monthly forever. Use a mortgage calculator - set the amount, the interest rate, and the term. The interest rate is lower now because of how the economy works but when I was in school it was 6.8%. They fiddled with it to be adjustable and in general that's been very favorable for borrowers. I believe its 4ish% now.

Long story short - there are other jobs out there. There are other lucrative careers. Stable careers. Careers where you help people. This is a long path and a lot of money. There are weird things going on in the world right now that should make doctors heads spin - nurse practitioners with an online degree and no science background being told they can practice independently. I'm not saying this because I think you should do that. I'm just saying the world is changing, but the podiatry schools are digging in to their little kingdom and going after the last drop of blood.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
nurse practitioners with an online degree and no science background being told they can practice independently

News like that..

Screen Shot 2020-12-26 at 9.35.20 PM.png


The AMAs tweet on #stopscopecreep was on point
 
I have been looking into going down the podiatric route this past month and a half-ish. Finding quality information has been difficult, and I have been advised to avoid this website but I keep coming back for some reason lol. Let me share what my understanding is thus far. As others have said, take everything everyone is saying, myself included especially since I am not even a pod med student, with a grain of salt. The pod students and podiatrists reading this please let me know what I got wrong in my assessment so far.

1.) Podiatrists are physicians that specialize in foot and ankle pathology and correction.

Keyword in that sentence physician. This means pod school is med school, not med school lite (an easier version of med school). As others have said, it's going to be just as hard as MD/DO school.

But it's also important to know that, yes, this is one way of becoming a physician and you just need to appreciate and accept that you'll be a foot and ankle specialist. The best way of figuring this out is by shadowing.

You will find that some people on here have developed an inferiority complex and don't consider themselves physicians since they went the podiatric route. This is false technically and legally. This link will take you to a Reddit thread, where the first comment, a user named Holiday bike, explains the legality of podiatrists being officially recognized as physicians. He also provides the documentation.



Granted, in this reddit thread, you'll notice how many people are arrogant to the fact that podiatrists are physicians. This is mainly because many people, even in the medical field, are unaware that this route to medicine exists.

So please note, podiatrists are physicians who specialize in foot and ankle care. They are NOT a profession that claims the mantle or title of a physician even though legally and technically, they are not. An example of these includes nurse practitioners, nurse anesthetists, chiropractors, naturopathic physicians, and even physicians assistants.


Here is another source that clarifies the legality of podiatrists being officially recognized as physicians in the eyes of the law and healthcare system. It states that "Podiatrists are defined as physicians by the federal government and in most states. In the few states that do not use the term “physician” in the definition, podiatrists are licensed to diagnose and treat the foot, ankle, and lower extremity." I will leave the link below.



You have to make sure you're OK for not having the same "status" or "prestige" as being an MD/DO. That much is true, as evidenced by that reddit thread, many people within medicine don't know podiatrists are physicians. Additionally, you're locked into doing a foot and ankle surgical residency, meaning you can't switch into another specialty as a podiatrist.

2.) Let's talk supply and demand. This is what I have found.

Let me know if anything I am about to say below doesn't make sense.

If you venture enough on this forum for podiatry, you'll find that people make podiatry sound like it's pharmacy, without showing data or studies. I use three sources to determine what the market is in my consideration, the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), the Health Resources & Services Administration, and the American Podiatric Medical Association.

The first source I went to was Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS).

Allegedly, BLS changes their numbers all of the time. The link below has an article is echoing the BLS report for podiatry in 2018. This article in the link below states that "The Bureau of Labor Statistics projects 6.0 percent employment growth for podiatrists between 2018 and 2028. In that period, an estimated 600 jobs should open up."

I am using this article to tell you this because I can only get the BLS report for podiatry starting in 2019, not the 2018 report. And the 2020 one isn't out yet. This article uses the 2018 report.

https://money.usnews.com/careers/be...iRCT6laWDaHjmk_pwyir2w-oDWGf13w3qo6DFQhZ8sCR0

Now if we take a look at the report from 2019, it states the job growth rate is 0% for 2019 to 2029, which is a stark contrast from the 2018 report that I just showed you.

What's the point of me telling you this? It's that it seems to be correct in the notion that the BLS reports change pretty rapidly. Now I am going to be hypocritical here since I hate anecdotes, but I have heard from various people that BLS isn't too reliable for supply and demand, and what I just presented sort of proves that point. But I will digress and will try to give more rhetoric.

So here's a report from the Health Resources & Services Administration in the link below. According to this, by 2030, the United States will have a shortage of 4,420 podiatric physicians. This government agency has numerous reports about supply and demand for other healthcare professions as well.


Here is another study that suggests that there will be an increased demand for podiatric physicians. This is study was conducted by the American Podiatric Medical Association.



So I am assuming the market is somewhat decent for podiatrists based on the data from Health Resources & Services Administration and the American Podiatric Medical Association.



3.) Lets talk about that cash money.
I don't know how close I am to reality when it comes to salaries for podiatrists. But I will try my best.

In short, how much you'll make as a podiatrist depends. It depends on a great many things, but podiatry income isn't as consistent as the other medical specialties. I am not too sure as to why that is.

If you venture google, you'll quickly notice that podiatry salaries are literally everywhere. Some say it's as low as 75,000 and some will go as high as 500,000. I will explain my sources below, but it seems like you'll start off after residency starting significantly lower than $200,000 dollars, but getting to that number and surpassing it is doable as your career progresses.

I would advise against using websites like salary.com, ziprecruiter, and payscale.

Here are my sources:

This first one is a source from the 2018 American College of Foot and Ankle Surgeons. This was provided by our pal Dexter.

346 people took this survey, and there are supposed to be 22,000 podiatrists in the US. Take with this study what you will. I am not sure if this survey carries any significance but I would imagine it's at least somewhat accurate.

Additionally, the American College of Foot and Ankle Surgeons reported in 2018 that their members reported salary has increased by 7.8%. Here is the link below.


So then there is the MGMA report. Honestly, I have heard too many things to make comments on it. I heard it is supposed to be very accurate. I have also heard that MGMA only surveys podiatrists working in the hospital, and NOT podiatrists working in private practice or orthopedic groups or multispecialty groups. I have also heard it includes salary and bonuses. I would love for others to chime in their thoughts on the MGMA report, I'll leave the link here.


Here I go with anecdotes again. People on here say that there is no way of telling how much you'll make. It depends. It all depends on where you work, what your schedule is like, where you live, etc. The sources I present above aren't there to try to say that pods make the bag, but they are there to present the most reliable or accurate sources I could find and are there for you to consider.

This is my guesstimate. Salary will likely start out between 120,000-150,000 and should move up as time progresses as you see more patients and/or land better gigs to match 200,000 or more.


4.) Let's talk surgery
Im going to make a hypocrite of myself more by using anecdotes. I cannot find data online about how much surgery the average podiatrist does to back up what I am saying, so take this with a load of salt.

The APMA really tries to sell the profession by saying you work in the clinic AND the operating room. Based on my observation both by shadowing and using this website, this is what my understanding is.

My understanding is that the surgical component of podiatry has a wide plethora of different procedures, corrections, and follow up procedures. This makes the surgical aspect sound like fun.

H o w e v e r

Allegedly, the quantity of surgical procedures is low. You won't be doing a lot of surgery as a podiatrist, most of the time. Thats the vibe I'm getting from SDN and from my shadowing experience.

There are some cases where if you can land a gig somewhere, whether it be a hospital gig or an ortho group gig where you'll get a lot of surgical cases sent your way. Also, it'll depend on how good of a residency you get after med school. If you land a good residency after med school where you are well trained, you might be able to do more surgeries since you are comfortable doing them. This can increase your chances of landing a job that may have higher than average surgical traffic. But there are still no guarantees.

Additionally, foot surgery is the lowest paying surgery in medicine, and this is due to medicare. Ankle surgery pays much more but isn't as frequent as doing foot procedures. So, many podiatrists actually prefer to not do surgery since they could be making more money working in the clinic than taking up time in the OR doing a lengthy procedure that pays little.

This is my anecdotal source about all of what I just said from SDN.



Everything I just said about surgery could be wrong, but this is the vibe I am getting. I wish I could find data about this. I bring up the topic of surgery since, to many, it seems like one of the selling points of podiatry. DO physicians have a hard time landing a surgical specialty as is, and people are estimating this will get worse for them after the residency merger. Granted, it hasn't happened yet and there is no way to tell for sure. But with podiatry, yes, you will be a surgeon in practice it just seems like you won't be doing too much surgery.


Conclusion

I hope this helped, and if I am wrong about some of what I said, I would appreciate corrections.

What kind of salary figures have you come across?
 
Anyone saying "DO physicians will be ____ after the residency merger" are just making conjecture. It's hard to predict what will happen with them.

Also, regarding what you said about DPM = physician, the CISA has actually grouped DPMs with MD/DO as physicians at the forefront of the COVID-19 pandemic response.

  • Healthcare providers including, but not limited to, physicians (MD/DO/DPM); dentists; psychologists; mid- level practitioners; nurses; assistants and aids; infection control and quality assurance personnel; phlebotomists; pharmacists; physical, respiratory, speech and occupational therapists and assistants; social workers; optometrists; speech pathologists; chiropractors; diagnostic and therapeutic
    technicians; and radiology technologists.


(Google "CISA DPM" for source.)

To me that paints a hopeful outlook for podiatry as a profession because it looks like there is more recognition about the status of DPMs as physicians. There are still a lot of MDs out there who just see podiatry as "allied health," though.

Keep in mind that DPMs do not have a plenary medical license. This is something that desperately needs to be addressed, honestly, and all deficiencies in DPM curriculum need to be addressed (as I understand it, there are deficiencies in the clinical curriculum when compared to MD/DO). Everyone needs to support efforts to get an unrestricted medical license, regardless of the fact that being a specialist limits one's scope in practice. Many MDs and DOs are saying that they do not consider podiatrists to be true physicians because "they lack an education in general medicine." They can't make that argument very easily when podiatrists have an unrestricted license to practice medicine.

Having a plenary license would also likely have trickle-down effects such as standardization of pay and encouraging more hospital systems to hire podiatrists. It would also likely encourage more high-quality applicants to DPM programs, which will help the profession's image. That is just my guess though.
 
Last edited:
Anyone saying "DO physicians will be ____ after the residency merger" are just making conjecture. It's hard to predict what will happen with them.

Also, regarding what you said about DPM = physician, the CISA has actually grouped DPMs with MD/DO as physicians at the forefront of the COVID-19 pandemic response.




(Google "CISA DPM" for source.)

To me that paints a hopeful outlook for podiatry as a profession because it looks like there is more recognition about the status of DPMs as physicians. There are still a lot of MDs out there who just see podiatry as "allied health," though.

Keep in mind that DPMs do not have a plenary medical license. This is something that desperately needs to be addressed, honestly, and all deficiencies in DPM curriculum need to be addressed (as I understand it, there are deficiencies in the clinical curriculum when compared to MD/DO). Everyone needs to support efforts to get an unrestricted medical license, regardless of the fact that being a specialist limits one's scope in practice. Many MDs and DOs are saying that they do not consider podiatrists to be true physicians because "they lack an education in general medicine." They can't make that argument very easily when podiatrists have an unrestricted license to practice medicine.

Having a plenary license would also likely have trickle-down effects such as standardization of pay and encouraging more hospital systems to hire podiatrists. It would also likely encourage more high-quality applicants to DPM programs, which will help the profession's image. That is just my guess though.
Do you think this ever happens?
 
IMO it's up to podiatrists if they want that or not. I don't see why MDs and DOs would be opposed to the idea because it shows that DPMs are trying to have the same standards as MD/DO, which reflects positively.

Having to explain your training to everyone you meet is not a good look in my opinion. The easiest way to avoid having to educate colleagues about your training (in a world where everyone's busy and probably does not have time to care anyway) is to simply have the exact same license that they do. That means having a plenary license to practice medicine rather than a restricted one.
 
Top