Would this look bad?

[Howisbabbyformd]

Listing my volunteering at a religious organization that provides food/shelter/counseling for the homeless and also listing my involvement in an atheist organization? What are your thoughts? My motivation for volunteering with the shelter has nothing to do with religion (obviously)...I just want to serve my community. Or, is listing my involvement with an atheist organization just a bad idea in the first place? If someone would be offended by this, I would assume they'd most likely be put off by someone else's involvement with LGBT issues that I know some applicants list.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Geebeejay]

Listing my volunteering at a religious organization that provides food/shelter/counseling for the homeless and also listing my involvement in an atheist organization? What are your thoughts? My motivation for volunteering with the shelter has nothing to do with religion (obviously)...I just want to serve my community. Or, is listing my involvement with an atheist organization just a bad idea in the first place? If someone would be offended by this, I would assume they'd most likely be put off by someone else's involvement with LGBT issues that I know some applicants list.

What did you do in the Atheist organization? What did you contribute? I'd approach this care because if the adcom member reading your application happens to be religious or has any preconceived impressions of atheists, your application might end up right in the trash. You'd pretty much be coming right out and announcing your religious beliefs to adcoms, and hell, there isn't a question that asks what your religion is on the common app exactly for this reason.

 

[Howisbabbyformd]

What did you do in the Atheist organization? What did you contribute? I'd approach this care because if the adcom member reading your application happens to be religious or has any preconceived impressions of atheists, your application might end up right in the trash. You'd pretty much be coming right out and announcing your religious beliefs to adcoms, and hell, there isn't a question that asks what your religion is on the common app exactly for this reason.

Atheism isn't a religion...but I get what you're saying I think I'll just leave it off.

 

[WhittyPsyche]

I see what Geebeejay is saying in the negative aspect, but on the other hand it could be seen as positive in terms of tolerance towards diverse populations. If asked about it it could give you the opportunity to stress that what is important to you is helping people no matter their religion or denomination. And it is the same policy you would hold as a physician. You are blind to race, religion, and affiliation and treat all the same, when you saw an opportunity to make a difference you were not swayed by the personal beliefs of the organizers and only saw a potential role to really help people who need it.

That sounds impressive to me!

 

[xffan624]

Listing my volunteering at a religious organization that provides food/shelter/counseling for the homeless and also listing my involvement in an atheist organization? What are your thoughts? My motivation for volunteering with the shelter has nothing to do with religion (obviously)...I just want to serve my community. Or, is listing my involvement with an atheist organization just a bad idea in the first place? If someone would be offended by this, I would assume they'd most likely be put off by someone else's involvement with LGBT issues that I know some applicants list.

Did you serve a leadership role in the atheist organization or additional volunteering through them? If not, it's a useless activity. If yes, then put it on there just like any activity. I served in a leadership role with the College Republicans and yes, I put it on there even though I know politics can be a touchy subject for some. I don't think it hurt my application a wink.

I did volunteering through a religious affiliated homeless shelter, but I don't think most ADCOM's cared or care the motivation behind it. They're not going to assume or probably care that I'm associated with that religion just because I am volunteering there

 

[iheartmpls]

I see what Geebeejay is saying in the negative aspect, but on the other hand it could be seen as positive in terms of tolerance towards diverse populations. If asked about it it could give you the opportunity to stress that what is important to you is helping people no matter their religion or denomination. And it is the same policy you would hold as a physician. You are blind to race, religion, and affiliation and treat all the same, when you saw an opportunity to make a difference you were not swayed by the personal beliefs of the organizers and only saw a potential role to really help people who need it.

That sounds impressive to me!

I agree. I don't think people will make any assumptions about your religious background based on your volunteer activities. I also think it's still valuable to list even if you didn't have a leadership position. Yes, it's important to have leadership experience but you don't have to be running every single organization you're involved with for people to appreciate your work.

 

[Lollygag]

My roommate did something similar on her grad school application and it really bugged me lol she got in tho!

Agreed with the above that if you didn't have a major leadership role then it's probably not worth mentioning. If you did have a major leadership role in it then maybe you should take out the church activities and just list the Atheism thing.

I can definitely see an adcom or two raising their eyebrow over it but I'm not sure if it would actually hurt you.

Definitely curious what LizzyM would say about it.

 

[Planes2Doc]

Umm... I'm not too sure if ADCOMs dig too deeply into one's intentions.

 

[Howisbabbyformd]

Umm... I'm not too sure if ADCOMs dig too deeply into one's intentions.

Well it appears inconsistent on the surface, that's why I was wondering. I am also a pilot.

 

[Geebeejay]

I see what Geebeejay is saying in the negative aspect, but on the other hand it could be seen as positive in terms of tolerance towards diverse populations. If asked about it it could give you the opportunity to stress that what is important to you is helping people no matter their religion or denomination. And it is the same policy you would hold as a physician. You are blind to race, religion, and affiliation and treat all the same, when you saw an opportunity to make a difference you were not swayed by the personal beliefs of the organizers and only saw a potential role to really help people who need it.

That sounds impressive to me!

Yes I Was trying to say that if you hold a leadership role or contributed something positive then sure, write about it. What you said works too. I would only be cautious about going into depth into the nitty gritty details of what it means to be an atheist.

 

[LizzyM]

I can see the homeless shelter gig as "volunteer, non-clinical". What's the purpose of listing the atheist organization... to telegraph that you aren't a member of that religion that sponsors services for the homeless? Afraid that you will be discriminated against if you are mistakenly believed to be a theist but afraid that working with theists in the service of the poor while being a card carrying atheist will seem contradictory to other atheists who discriminate against and openly abhor religious people who serve the poor?

Damned if you do and damned if you don't if you'll pardon the pun given your lack of believe in damnation.

What kind of organization is based on the premise that something does not exist? What can you do in such an organization? Now this has piqued my interest....

 

[Howisbabbyformd]

I can see the homeless shelter gig as "volunteer, non-clinical". What's the purpose of listing the atheist organization... to telegraph that you aren't a member of that religion that sponsors services for the homeless? Afraid that you will be discriminated against if you are mistakenly believed to be a theist but afraid that working with theists in the service of the poor while being a card carrying atheist will seem contradictory to other atheists who discriminate against and openly abhor religious people who serve the poor?

Damned if you do and damned if you don't if you'll pardon the pun given your lack of believe in damnation.

What kind of organization is based on the premise that something does not exist? What can you do in such an organization? Now this has piqued my interest....

None of the above, it's just part of who I am and where my interests lie outside of medicine. I don't have any sort of leadership role in this organization. I was just wondering if it was worth listing on an application.

 

[Planes2Doc]

None of the above, it's just part of who I am and where my interests lie outside of medicine. I don't have any sort of leadership role in this organization. I was just wondering if it was worth listing on an application.

I think that leaving it on can open doors to some unwanted questions. What isn't usually considered fair game can suddenly become fair game if you open yourself up to it. if this wasn't something significant, it might be better to leave it off. It kind of sucks that people need to be weary of religious and political affiliation. Otherwise, if it's not on your application, I don't think any interviewer will cross that line.

This is why I left off my involvement in College Republicans on my application. I didn't want to open myself up to difficult curve ball questions, like abortion. What complicates things more is that I'm actually Libertarian. That would have made the interview a mess!

EDIT: Plus I did extensive non-clinical volunteering with two Jewish organizations. I don't think any ADCOM would have confused me for an Orthodox Jew. Therefore, I'm sure there will be no conflict. Just because you served in a religious organization, especially a charity, does not mean you are a pious believer.

 

[Lamel]

Honestly if adcoms discriminate based on this sort of stuff, that is horribly unfair. They have no right to judge religious beliefs or lack thereof.

Now if you're wondering whether if will look contradictory, it may make them curious...but I don't see how its grounds for rejection.

 

[Howisbabbyformd]

Sociologically, atheism is effectively a religion as falls into the cultural realm of similar groups. The difference in the belief system of most western religions and atheism solely stems from a supreme being and a theology based upon the concept. The moral constructs and philosophical concepts are the essentially the same. If the belief in a supreme being and a theology was required to be defined as a religion, then most eastern religions would lose that designation

Atheism is as much a religion as not playing baseball is a sport

 

[xffan624]

None of the above, it's just part of who I am and where my interests lie outside of medicine. I don't have any sort of leadership role in this organization. I was just wondering if it was worth listing on an application.

You only get 15 activities to list... You really have space for a club that you merely attended and didn't serve a leadership activity in?

I could have put I went to church every weekend and some social events with the campus ministry, but I didn't. Not because I didn't want to open up the religious question, but because it wasn't "relevant" and didn't really enhance my application as there was no leadership involved, only attendance.

 

[Howisbabbyformd]

You only get 15 activities to list... You really have space for a club that you merely attended and didn't serve a leadership activity in?

I could have put I went to church every weekend and some social events with the campus ministry, but I didn't. Not because I didn't want to open up the religious question, but because it wasn't "relevant" and didn't really enhance my application as there was no leadership involved, only attendance.

Yeah, I think I will have room for that. I didn't hold 15 different leadership positions in undergrad.

 

[DokterMom]

None of the above, it's just part of who I am and where my interests lie outside of medicine. I don't have any sort of leadership role in this organization. I was just wondering if it was worth listing on an application.

So the atheist organization is one you belong to because you are an atheist and identify with their views (so not a service organization), and the religious shelter activity is one you do because it's worthwhile, the religious affiliation being incidental?

I recall reading somewhere that a relatively large proportion of doctors are not religious (larger than in the population as a whole), but there are enough who view atheists in a negative light that there is some risk... Sadly, prejudice against atheists is alive and well - especially in many parts of the South. (Like the only reason to care about people is to win 'brownie points' with God?)

Does your affiliation with the atheist group bring something to your application that you wouldn't otherwise have? Ex. Leadership? Long-term involvement? Or would it mainly just show that you're not 'overly religious?'

But medical school admissions is effectively a negative process. With the sheer number of applications per school and the ratio of applicant to seats, it leads to structure where weeding people out is the first step.

A very wise point. And one that keeps a lot of us in the closet...

 

[Howisbabbyformd]

So the atheist organization is one you belong to because you are an atheist and identify with their views (so not a service organization), and the religious shelter activity is one you do because it's worthwhile, the religious affiliation being incidental?

I recall reading somewhere that a relatively large proportion of doctors are not religious (larger than in the population as a whole), but there are enough who view atheists in a negative light that there is some risk... Sadly, prejudice against atheists is alive and well - especially in many parts of the South. (Like the only reason to care about people is to win 'brownie points' with God?)

Does your affiliation with the atheist group bring something to your application that you wouldn't otherwise have? Ex. Leadership? Long-term involvement? Or would it mainly just show that you're not 'overly religious?'



A very wise point. And one that keeps a lot of us in the closet...

It would show that I am not religious...I don't have an active leadership role within the organization.

 

[weezynation]

It would show that I am not religious...I don't have an active leadership role within the organization.

If you want to take that risk then that's your decision, but do your really want to deal with the possibility of being discriminated against? It's obviously wrong for an adcom to throw your application in the trash for this, but it doesn't mean it won't get thrown in the trash because of "some other issue in your app" that would've otherwise been overlooked had you not proclaimed yourself as an atheist. People have biases and more often than not act in accordance with those biases whether it is right or wrong.

 

[apumic]

It would show that I am not religious...I don't have an active leadership role within the organization.

Keep in mind:

• 90-95% of Americans believe in God (the lower limit) and/or a divine being/essence (the upper limit)
• People prefer to be treated by others with similar beliefs to themselves (ESPECIALLY when facing life/death issues)
• 76% of Physicians believe in a god (67% are Christian)
• Atheism literally means "to oppose god" -- and this is generally how people see it (i.e., pretty negatively)

Do with that what you want, but know the tide isn't really on your side except in places like SDN. Yes, medical schools tend to take a "let's ignore god" perspective, but your patients aren't going to think like that and if you can't meet them where they are, you will do poorly. I suspect adcoms don't view Atheism as a mark of honor as a general rule but may view the waving of its flag of it in an application as a yellow flag. (If you had been involved as a community leader through an atheist organization, it would be different, but this seems to be nothing more than, "BTW, I just wanted to let you know I'm an atheist."


FYI, Atheism is TOTALLY a religion. It's a belief system. It requires you to believe in something you cannot possibly know. The only one I might call NOT a religion is agnosticism (i.e., "there could be a god; I'm not really sure, but it's an interesting thing to consider") but even that is really a bit of a religion in and of itself....

 

[touchpause13]

I put volunteering with LGBT and feminist organizations in my primary app... not sure if it helped or hurt me, but I didn't get questions about it in interviews.

Sent from my SCH-I405 using SDN Mobile

 

[vbgal41]

If you didn't hold any leadership positions in this organization/participate in any benevolent activities, I don't think it would really be adding anything to your application except a little bit of controversy, particularly if you are applying to any schools with religious affiliations (Jesuit, etc.). Even if you don't have 15 activities to list, I wouldn't list it.

 

[mehc012]

Keep in mind:

• 90-95% of Americans believe in God (the lower limit) and/or a divine being/essence (the upper limit)
• People prefer to be treated by others with similar beliefs to themselves (ESPECIALLY when facing life/death issues)
• 76% of Physicians believe in a god (67% are Christian)
• Atheism literally means "to oppose god" -- and this is generally how people see it (i.e., pretty negatively)

FYI, Atheism is TOTALLY a religion. It's a belief system. It requires you to believe in something you cannot possibly know. The only one I might call NOT a religion is agnosticism (i.e., "there could be a god; I'm not really sure, but it's an interesting thing to consider") but even that is really a bit of a religion in and of itself....

OK, first of all, atheism does not "literally mean[] "to oppose god". That would be "antitheism" or something similar. Atheism literally means "without god". I do agree that your use of this definition (which I believe many would agree with if they didn't check) demonstrates the largely negative view many people have of atheists.

Second, and this one is more my opinion, rather than the above which was simply fact, athiesm is NOT a religion, or a belief system, most specifically because it does NOT require you to believe in something you cannot possibly know. It doesn't require anything, because unlike a religious organization, there are no rules, scripture, doctrine, tradition, what-have you. Atheism simply describes the state of being without gods aka not believing in them. While I suppose you could state it as "belief that there IS NOT a god", it makes more sense to phrase it as "lack of belief in god". There's a subtle difference in those two; one implies that, no matter what evidence they are presented with, they will hold true to their belief that there is no god, while the other simply says that, given the evidence they have, they don't believe in one. One requires faith (in the nonexistence of gods) while the other simply requires that they not believe in something which cannot be proven to them.

Honestly, I've always considered agnostics to admit that they felt spiritual/believed in a higher power, but didn't know which form it took...otherwise they'd be atheists. Perhaps I am wrong on that, but it is the only definition I ever heard.


Finally, consider that (if your statistics are correct) 95% of people are religious, yet only 65% of doctors...this implies rather the opposite of discrimination against atheists in the medical field. Perhaps not enough to risk it or put a fairly non-helpful EC on your app, but still...something to consider.

PS couldn't you just omit the religious aspect of the volunteer organization?

 

[Silverflash]

Atheism is as much a religion as not playing baseball is a sport

When was the last time you heard of a "We don't play baseball club"?

 

[galaxyx]

When was the last time you heard of a "We don't play baseball club"?

If 90% of the population played baseball, there would be "We don't play baseball clubs." because people who didn't play baseball would be stigmatized and feel like outcasts. That still wouldn't make not playing baseball a sport.

 

[ScholarStud]

I can see the homeless shelter gig as "volunteer, non-clinical". What's the purpose of listing the atheist organization... to telegraph that you aren't a member of that religion that sponsors services for the homeless? Afraid that you will be discriminated against if you are mistakenly believed to be a theist but afraid that working with theists in the service of the poor while being a card carrying atheist will seem contradictory to other atheists who discriminate against and openly abhor religious people who serve the poor?

Damned if you do and damned if you don't if you'll pardon the pun given your lack of believe in damnation.

What kind of organization is based on the premise that something does not exist? What can you do in such an organization? Now this has piqued my interest....

OP, the answer to your question is right here. Don't list it-- if you get an adcom who is religious he/she will likely **** all over your app.

 

[DokterMom]

Bottom line:

Chances that it could help somewhat are very low.

Chances that it could hurt somewhat are moderately high.

 

[mirimonster]

I think what's missing in this discussion is the fact that your atheism group is irrelevant to your application unless you include it in a general "hobbies" activity, which would be fine. Your religious preferences are not relevant to your ability to be a good doctor, so just as a good Catholic would not list their weekly participation in Sunday mass, neither should you discuss your own non-religion unless it is in some other way relevant to how you chose to pursue medicine. The controversy then, is likewise a moot point.

 

[Narmerguy]

Bottom line:

Chances that it could help somewhat are very low.

Chances that it could hurt somewhat are moderately high.

Pretty much this.

And I will add that atheism is a religion in the academic sense of the word, though obviously not treated as such colloquially.

 

[gunner1]

I don't think listing your atheist organization is a bad idea. Aren't adcoms meant to be tolerant towards ones beliefs no matter what it is just like your gender, religion sexual orientation etc. You can be an atheist provided you're not discriminating against or look down upon those that have a religion. As long as you demonstrate that you're a competent doctor and you are able to work with people of different faiths and culture it should be alright.

 

[ScholarStud]

I don't think listing your atheist organization is a bad idea. Aren't adcoms meant to be tolerant towards ones beliefs no matter what it is just like your gender, religion sexual orientation etc. You can be an atheist provided you're not discriminating against or look down upon those that have a religion. As long as you demonstrate that you're a competent doctor and you are able to work with people of different faiths and culture it should be alright.

It SHOULD be alright and adcoms SHOULDN'T discriminate but the reality of things is that they they absolutely will discriminate against the OP and it will likely err against his favor.

 

[type12]

I don't know. I volunteered at a Gay Men's Health Clinic, and I wasn't gay. If the OP spins it as such (reaching out to the community, embracing others) as other posters have mentioned, then I think he'll be good.

But really, it sounds like you're just trying to show off that you've realized that science and religion are not bffs and cannot coexist. Kudos man, but choose your battles. Being humble is a trait that they like seeing in doctors. Wrong place, and certainly wrong time. If you didn't do anything worthwhile, not even "community volunteering" through them, it's not worth mentioning.

(btw, atheism is not a religion, just like how homelessness is not a home)

 

[apumic]

An article I just read found that medical students who were atheist were less likely to recognize patients' religious beliefs as relevant to pt care. It had essentially the same effect on pt care attitudes as did being URM (i.e., being religious is a positive in the same way being URM is). Take that for what you will.

 

[mehc012]

An article I just read found that medical students who were atheist were less likely to recognize patients' religious beliefs as relevant to pt care. It had essentially the same effect on pt care attitudes as did being URM (i.e., being religious is a positive in the same way being URM is). Take that for what you will.

Assuming, you know, you ignore all of the atheist patients, many of whom would prefer an atheist doctor if the craziness in the "would you be treated by an atheist doctor" poll from a few months ago is any indication.

 

[apumic]

Assuming, you know, you ignore all of the atheist patients, many of whom would prefer an atheist doctor if the craziness in the "would you be treated by an atheist doctor" poll from a few months ago is any indication.

Somehow I think a published paper is a better indicator of such things than a highly skewed convenience sample. (In other words, that's not really an indication of anything whatsoever.)

Additionally, since atheists don't typically care as they see tend to see themselves as if they were a majority population (they're not, but apparently their characteristics are akin to a majority or privileged group), they are less likely to show a strong preference for someone of similar beliefs (because they tend to assume anyone who has not specifically stated otherwise already has similar beliefs).

 

[Jas1360]

Looking back at my MD application I left out a couple good volunteer activities because of the affiliation. I regret that choice because they were quality activities that showed my continuous involvement in my community. Fortunately I had room on my DO application to include all of my activities and so I did include those activities on that application.

I think that while doctor's are individuals who have personal opinions they are also trained to set aside those opinions in order to serve those whom they do not agree with.

So the people on admissions committees will do their best to judge applicants based on specific criteria regardless of race, religion, etc.

It is still possible that someone will use their bias against an applicant but I think it's a bigger risk to not list an activity that was a significant part of your life regardless of an affiliations.

 

[mehc012]

Somehow I think a published paper is a better indicator of such things than a highly skewed convenience sample. (In other words, that's not really an indication of anything whatsoever.)

Umm...I didn't contradict the paper? It simply said (if I am to trust your paraphrasing, which I don't really, but let's pretend for a bit) that religious med students took religion into more consideration than atheist ones (super surprising, I bet no one saw that coming ). That's fine and dandy for the majority of people who are religious and the majority of doctors who work better with them...what about atheist patients?

And yes, I then went on to say that, based on the convenience sample (which had a good mix of both religious and non-religious people, but was admittedly skewed for age, goals, socioeconomic status and country of residence), many atheists seem to prefer the idea of an atheist physician. This may or may not be true, but either way it is not in contradiction with the paper as you paraphrased it. In fact, it parallels it for the minority patient population.

Additionally, since atheists don't typically care Generalization based on no evidence as they see tend to see themselves as if they were a majority population Generalization based on no evidence (they're not, but apparently their characteristics are akin to a majority or privileged group) Generalization based on no evidence , they are less likely to show a strong preference for someone of similar beliefs Generalization based on no evidence (because they tend to assume anyone who has not specifically stated otherwise already has similar beliefs) Generalization based on no evidence .

I could be wrong, perhaps you're still describing the conclusions of the paper you read about a while ago...but if so the description is so poorly worded that it just sounds like a rant, and since I can't tell and you didn't specify, I'm going with my initial reaction. If your above statements are from a research paper instead of the swirly bits in your head, then let me know, cuz it'd be super interesting. If not, then my predictions are no less valid than your own .

 

[mehc012]

when you saw an opportunity to make a difference you were not swayed by the personal beliefs of the organizers and only saw a potential role to really help people who need it.

Yeah, that's actually ridiculously commendable; I have never been able to bring myself to do the same, and it's something I question myself about pretty routinely. Well done, OP!

 

[defib]

Atheism isn't a religion...but I get what you're saying I think I'll just leave it off.

I hate getting into religion like this, but I couldn't resist. Atheism is a religion, just because you do not believe in deities does not make it any less of a religion than Taoism. Religion has a collection of moral and cultural systems, which religion is also composed of ethics and traditions. Last Atheist I chatted with he matched to most these things that I listed. So I will break this down.

Atheist morals, traditions, and ethics: Act good (for the most part), deny any existence of any form of deities, be yourself without any deities bothering your daily life. An Atheist has to follow these ethics and morals to be classified as an Atheist by the public and fellow Atheists. Thus the same with religion. Atheists like saying Atheism is not a religion because that would clearly make them look ignorant and with a lost cause, which anyone with the right mind can figure out Atheism is actually a religion.

Also arguing with an Atheist about Atheism is a lost cause in it's self, it's like arguing with a wall: you won't get anywhere. It's just like any other religious man. I just wanted to share.

-Rant Finished-


But anyways, away from that topic! You wanted to reach out and help people regardless of what their beliefs were and that's a noble thing, I think it would look good. I really liked what vngufmxw said.

 

[apumic]

Umm...I didn't contradict the paper? It simply said (if I am to trust your paraphrasing, which I don't really, but let's pretend for a bit) that religious med students took religion into more consideration than atheist ones (super surprising, I bet no one saw that coming ). That's fine and dandy for the majority of people who are religious and the majority of doctors who work better with them...what about atheist patients?

And yes, I then went on to say that, based on the convenience sample (which had a good mix of both religious and non-religious people, but was admittedly skewed for age, goals, socioeconomic status and country of residence), many atheists seem to prefer the idea of an atheist physician. This may or may not be true, but either way it is not in contradiction with the paper as you paraphrased it. In fact, it parallels it for the minority patient population.





I could be wrong, perhaps you're still describing the conclusions of the paper you read about a while ago...but if so the description is so poorly worded that it just sounds like a rant, and since I can't tell and you didn't specify, I'm going with my initial reaction. If your above statements are from a research paper instead of the swirly bits in your head, then let me know, cuz it'd be super interesting. If not, then my predictions are no less valid than your own .

Yes, they were ideas taken from the paper. It was a paper on medical education and students from high vs. low SES as well as other "in" group vs. "out" group issues. In essence, it was a program evaluation looking at how medical students did after being educated (during M1 & M2) on others' views and how that training then impacted patient care attitudes and performance during M3. One of the between-groups points found in the descriptive statistics was a significant (P<<0.01) difference b/w those "who believe in a god" vs "those who do not believe in a god" and their attitudes concerning the importance of considering a pt's religious views when approaching the pt. While an atheist might state a preference for another atheist to treat them, atheist students tend to be far less likely to be aware of this desire vs. someone with a belief in a god.

 

[ScholarStud]

Atheist morals, traditions, and ethics: Act good (for the most part), deny any existence of any form of deities, be yourself without any deities bothering your daily life. An Atheist has to follow these ethics and morals to be classified as an Atheist by the public and fellow Atheists.

There are absolutely no atheist morals or traditions. There is one qualifying factor: Deny the existence of all gods and goddesses, past and present. I have no idea where you got these universal prerequisites for being an atheist, particularly "act good". You can be an atheist and still be a total *sshole. Atheism is not a religion at all, it the very absence of it.

 

[ScholarStud]

Atheism is a religion, just because you do not believe in deities does not make it any less of a religion than Taoism.

What?? http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Philosophy/Taichi/gods.html

Eastern religions have their supernatural beliefs just like Christianity, Catholicism, Scientology, and Mormonism do.

 

[cs24]

For what it's worth, I applied this past cycle and talked about my atheism in my personal statement. I had a good cycle overall despite applying late, so I don't think it affected me too much, but it did come up in one interview at my undergrad institution where I had an old school faculty member. He did not seem terribly happy about it.

Result- deferred.

Probably not the only factor behind the decision, but the moral is, yes it could hurt you. I still included it in my PS because it is a major motivating factor for me to go into medicine. If this is the case for you, by all means include it and be ready to defend it in your interviews. If the organization was really not a major activity for you and you would rather avoid the issue in the interview, leave it out.

 

[defib]

There are absolutely no atheist morals or traditions. There is one qualifying factor: Deny the existence of all gods and goddesses, past and present. I have no idea where you got these universal prerequisites for being an atheist, particularly "act good". You can be an atheist and still be a total *sshole. Atheism is not a religion at all, it the very absence of it.

Yes, but where you missed out is I said "For the most part". Atheists can act how ever they please, clearly nothing is going to stop them. Atheism matches most of the things that people would describe religion, eliminating the God or Goddess part of the equation. Which is why I used Taoism as an example.

Atheists need that equal belief that there is no God, Atheists need to reject validity of religion, and most Atheists have more faith in logical explanation. This is how non-Atheists and Atheists construct the belief of someone being an Atheist.

Only reason Atheists don't say it's a religion because that simply goes against one of the major requirements. It's basically if a Christian says they don't believe in God, then they can't be Christian - only said that because it's the closest related thing I can think of. I am personally agnostic, so I am not really on either side. Which agnosticism is also an irreligion, but both agnosticism and atheism are both so constructed to a religion model. It's not like saying "Oh I don't like oranges because of the taste". That's where I am coming from.


I always thought Taoism didn't believe in a supreme being? That's what I was told, but not by a Taoist. eh.

 

[mehc012]

Yes, they were ideas taken from the paper. It was a paper on medical education and students from high vs. low SES as well as other "in" group vs. "out" group issues. In essence, it was a program evaluation looking at how medical students did after being educated (during M1 & M2) on others' views and how that training then impacted patient care attitudes and performance during M3. One of the between-groups points found in the descriptive statistics was a significant (P<<0.01) difference b/w those "who believe in a god" vs "those who do not believe in a god" and their attitudes concerning the importance of considering a pt's religious views when approaching the pt. While an atheist might state a preference for another atheist to treat them, atheist students tend to be far less likely to be aware of this desire vs. someone with a belief in a god.

Thank you...it's a lot easier to have a reasonable discussion on a paper you've read when you give me more than a 1-line explanation of it! It actually sounds pretty interesting, though not particularly useful (aka I don't think it should change the attitudes towards either believers or non-believers when it comes to practicing medicine).

As for everyone else...wow, this is making atheism a lot more complicated than necessary. Atheism = without god(s). Atheists, by definition, do not believe in god. It is not a religion or belief system because it does not require any faith (believing something without proof), nor does it set any rules, guidance, traditions, etc...there are no trappings. It's a purely descriptive term, without any philosophy or structure.

Some people who also happen to be atheists say a lot of things and try to force a lot of views on other people...but so do a lot of people who don't happen to be atheists. However, these are individual beliefs and don't a religion make. Then again, I suppose there are about as many definitions of 'religion' as there are people, so call it what you will. Jeez, this is why I've spent so many years saying "I'm not an atheist; I just don't believe in god!"

 

[type12]

Yeah, it's weird how people call "theism" as a religion all of a sudden. I've heard of Christianity, a religion that contains that belief, categorized as a religion, but not theism itself.

There is a surprising amount of hostility that stems from atheism, it seems. I thought the medical community was one of the most tolerant! I certainly don't discriminate against atheists, even if I don't agree with their views.

In regards to the study, there was also a study on prayer and surgery, and it showed people who knew others were praying for them did worse. The researchers attributed it to performance anxiety. However, this study, and the other one mentioned, really don't add much to the conversation.

Anyway, looking at this thread now, I really think you should omit atheism from the activity if you decide to include it. This thread contains future doctors (fingers crossed - or hands together in prayer - for everyone!), so it might reflect how polarizing this issue is currently (and future generations tend to be more liberal!). It definitely won't win you favors, so keep it out!

 

[ScholarStud]

Yes, but where you missed out is I said "For the most part". Atheists can act how ever they please, clearly nothing is going to stop them. Atheism matches most of the things that people would describe religion,.

In what ways does atheism match religion? There are no divine texts or scriptures associated with atheism. You can even reject the Big Bang theory and still be an atheist, as again, the only requirement is to not believe in any gods or goddesses. There are no "Creeds of Atheism" as in Christianity, it's a literal textbook definition..." Without theism"

 

[Silverflash]

This is a pointless discussion; just as atheists will be unable to convince a religious individual that they're wrong (or vice versa), those who believe that atheism is a religion will be unable to convince those who do not otherwise. It just turns into a recitation of different definitions of religion, so why argue about it?

 

[mehc012]

This is a pointless discussion; just as atheists will be unable to convince a religious individual that they're wrong (or vice versa), those who believe that atheism is a religion will be unable to convince those who do not otherwise. It just turns into a recitation of different definitions of religion, so why argue about it?

Because, just as you felt the need to post on here that what we were doing is pointless and your way is better, we all feel the need to put our views out on the Internet in the vain hope that everyone else will suddenly realize that we were right the whole time.

Or we just enjoy a little pointless discussion now and then