. WW Sign-Ups & Game Thread

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PrincessButterCup said:
Lynch Dubz

I'll post some analysis when I get on my laptop, but a lot of little things have given me feelings for her. There are a lot of similarities between this game and the last one where she was a wolf, and I'm curious how others are reading her.
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I am curious where your idea is coming from this. I went back and did a dubz analysis after the most recent two deaths and was getting non-wolf stuff from her
cdo96 said:
Yeah I agree. It really could've helped to have verification that she was/ was not blocked. :/
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Or it could have provided info to the idea that she wasn't a wolf. And given you info to have gone a different direction with your attempt.
LetItSnow said:
That's fair. I just don't have any really strong votes left any more, and I'm not wanting on the cdoconn vote. I admit I may be reverse tunneled on it, but I felt cdoconn was village early, so I'm sticking with it.

At least for now. Maybe the rest of the posts will change my opinion. But other than that I'm kinda out of suspicions and ready to start lynching some of the people that are always blank checks in my book.
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Kind of out of suspicions? Like LIS, I want to believe that you are not a wolf. I really freaking do. You are making it difficult.
LetItSnow said:
Eh. I get why it pisses you off, but at the same time .......... there is some rationale to it. Players who are lower volume posters with generally less commitment to voting are big blanks. It's hard to get a good read. So when you get to a point where there aren't obvious leading contenders ..... they are good people to lynch.

I'm not a sneaky wolf. I'm a ****ty wolf. I've won as a wolf a few times by taking advantage of people's emotional reactions to things - I've successfully played the "I'm just busy" card and the "Woe is me" card, but I'm not a sneaky trick people with in-game mechanics player. I'm way too much bull in a china shop for that.

I mean, I take your point - it sucks to get lynched just for being a good player. But it's not like there's NO reason for it. With players like you and Nyanko I try to look at voting history/timing, because that's really all you give people. But it can definitely push you village or wolf in my book.
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You have been playing off of my emotions where I felt like an arse after the game where I got you wrong in the lounge. Again, not helping your cause, but I really don't want to lynch you.
LetItSnow said:
Why would I be dead already? I'm one of the crappiest end-game players we have, because my motor burns out mid-game. Wolves love having me around at the end.
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Because you always propose a STL lynch whenever we hit 10 players or less. And nyanko will pretty much vote for me in about 50% of lynches if we are in the same game together. (nyanko ninja'd another STL vote for me while typing this lol)
 
Well, dang. I was liking WZ until I got to her voting history. Early votes for Coop, voted for Zen . . . Now I feel like I'm grasping at straws.
 
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And I am done playing this subtly.

I was seered, two nights ago. Seer, I am pretty danged sure I know who you are, look the heck into LIS tonight. I am assuming that if you do not come on the thread screaming LIS is a wolf tomorrow, then I am assuming he is not a wolf.

And @mmmdreamerz - I am pretty danged sure I know you are the day vigilante (by the choice of target and timing), so why the heck did you kill AM in the manner that you did. I am almost tempted to vote you.
 
SummerTheLynx said:
And I am done playing this subtly.

I was seered, two nights ago. Seer, I am pretty danged sure I know who you are, look the heck into LIS tonight. I am assuming that if you do not come on the thread screaming LIS is a wolf tomorrow, then I am assuming he is not a wolf.

And @mmmdreamerz - I am pretty danged sure I know you are the day vigilante (by the choice of target and timing), so why the heck did you kill AM in the manner that you did. I am almost tempted to vote you.
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You would be wrong.

We should all mark the date and time😛
 
If you aren't, then that makes me think that it was a wolf who did it, as it literally doesn't make sense for any other person as a villager to do it. Which is interesting.
 
Dear Jesus I'm confused, now

SummerTheLynx said:
Kind of out of suspicions? Like LIS, I want to believe that you are not a wolf. I really freaking do. You are making it difficult.
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You mean like DVMD? I just can't parse this. Why do you want to believe I'm not a wolf? You've been pushing me as wolfy all game. Don't stop now. 🙂

SummerTheLynx said:
You have been playing off of my emotions where I felt like an arse after the game where I got you wrong in the lounge. Again, not helping your cause, but I really don't want to lynch you.
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If I have been playing off your emotions (don't you claim to play unemotionally???), it has not been intentional. I'm not even sure which Lounge game you're referring to ... I hold a lot less of a grudge then people seem to think.

SummerTheLynx said:
Because you always propose a STL lynch whenever we hit 10 players or less.
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Hell yeah, I do. You're a dangerous player as a wolf. You're really good at putting together a seemingly tight argument for why you can't possibly be a wolf ... even when you're a wolf.
 
Actually, maybe I'll take back my comment about her votes making me doubt myself. I don't love her posting history. Unless the search function is broken again and isn't showing some of her posts, WZ has been very unspecific in her feels for the wolves we've found.

She was on Coop pretty early, and pretty consistently, but she never posted a real analysis of her.

WildZoo said:
Lynch coop
I'll need to do a little meta research when I'm home but something in the tone of her posts is really setting off my feels right now
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It looks like the only thing she ever referenced was Coop's response to Cheat - which was much discussed early game, and I think her analysis of that interaction was a bit of a stretch. To have such strong feels for Coop, to repeatedly say her tone had changed, and then to only ever mention one post? She later called out Coop for not responding to her complaints against her, but really, there wasn't much to respond to.

In the same post, Dubz also throws out Lyra feels, but concludes by casting shade on Kata (villager).

WildZoo said:
Lynch coop

On reread her post to cheat still struck me as sketch. Not just because she said cheat shouldn't have mentioned having a role, but because she qualified it with "unless you're a period, in which case ignore me". To me that read like reaching for cheat to respond with a clarification about whether she was actually claiming to have a PR or was a vanillager.

Could also go lyra or kata. Not a big fan of lyra's vote initial for genny because she hadn't checked in yet when there were still 12 hours left in the day, and also not a fan of how she switched to pipperoni (LIS said something about this that I agreed with).

As for kata, block of text post full of excuses...I don't like it.
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She voted Zen, but again, doesn't say anything specific. Just "twinges."

WildZoo said:
Lynch Zen
Got some twinges late yesterday and I'm still feeling those feels after some rereading.

Backing off of my coop tunnel since no one else wants to go there, but I still think her comment was weird, and I'm not liking the difference between her d1 play and her more recent play.

LIS seems off compared to his recent village games. He said it himself but it's still making me raise my eyebrow.

Still looking at lyra but I don't particularly want to be voting with LIS today.
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I don't like her kill analysis either. In theory, it should make her look village - why would a wolf draw attention to kill analysis? It's another one of those seems helpful, but isn't really posts. She sort of feels okay with me (which she did as a wolf in the clinic game, too, before night killing me), but continues to throw some shade on Lyra.

WildZoo said:
Looking at kills for a minute:
Reasons for cheat kill were obvious
Snowy not so much but could not gather much from her posts/votes that led me to believe wolves would have been too concerned about her being a seer (assuming wolves are seer hunting as they should be). She did voice concerns about PBC, which would make me want to look that direction except that she later backed off and switched to lyra - so no reason for either of them if wolfy to think they had been seered. I was thinking though, could have been a preemptive kill - take her out just in case she was the seer, prevent her from seering these people she was suspicious of. All that to say I feel pretty ok with PBC otherwise, and this maybe gives me slightly more reason to keep an eye on lyra.
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In conclusion: it feels like Dubz is tossing around wolf players in order to build a good track record for herself, without ever committing to giving detailed analysis to any of their posts or voicing specific reasons for her feels. I think I'll keep my vote where it is.
 
SummerTheLynx said:
If you aren't, then that makes me think that it was a wolf who did it, as it literally doesn't make sense for any other person as a villager to do it. Which is interesting.
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A wolf with a daytime kill ability? That's ....... really rare. I'm sure it's been done, but I don't remember the last time.

I suppose it could be a day vig that got converted that kept the vig ability, but.....
 
SummerTheLynx said:
If you aren't, then that makes me think that it was a wolf who did it, as it literally doesn't make sense for any other person as a villager to do it. Which is interesting.
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If I were the day vig I might have done it if I weren't thinking too much about waiting for info - i.e. if I were playing without really paying much attention.

Note: I'm not being subtle and hinting that I am/was the day vig. I'm not. I'm just saying I could easily see it having been done by someone who isn't paying close attention.

(Put differently, I think you are failing to account for people not paying as much attention as you do.)
 
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LetItSnow said:
A wolf with a daytime kill ability? That's ....... really rare. I'm sure it's been done, but I don't remember the last time.

I suppose it could be a day vig that got converted that kept the vig ability, but.....
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It's not an intrinsic wolf role. Someone gave them the role. Aka, someone thought they were village enough (or if we have chaotic neutral, then maybe knew they were a wolf) to give them a role. I don't want to out the role giver, but..... I kind of wish they would call the day vig out. I am pretty danged sure at this point that all but 1 of us started this game as a period.
LetItSnow said:
Dear Jesus I'm confused, now



You mean like DVMD? I just can't parse this. Why do you want to believe I'm not a wolf? You've been pushing me as wolfy all game. Don't stop now. 🙂



If I have been playing off your emotions (don't you claim to play unemotionally???), it has not been intentional. I'm not even sure which Lounge game you're referring to ... I hold a lot less of a grudge then people seem to think.



Hell yeah, I do. You're a dangerous player as a wolf. You're really good at putting together a seemingly tight argument for why you can't possibly be a wolf ... even when you're a wolf.
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Yes I do claim that. Something happened two games ago with me, and probably half of SDN WW players think I am a horrible person right now. So I am a bit more sensitive than normal when it comes to my play. If this was the lounge, you're right, I would be completely unemotional. DocE game, where I was driving you obnoxiously hard the last two lynches. To the point where I went over the top for my usual self. It was some type of cop.murder thing, and you were a detective?

Not debating why, but my point is that you do it. And I know that. And you would be dead by now if I was a wolf. Or I would have gone through and pushed the lynch on you a couple of days ago.
 
SummerTheLynx said:
Not debating why, but my point is that you do it. And I know that. And you would be dead by now if I was a wolf. Or I would have gone through and pushed the lynch on you a couple of days ago.
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You keep making comments like this. It's total WIFOM and isn't an argument that clears you.
 
PrincessButterCup said:
You keep making comments like this. It's total WIFOM and isn't an argument that clears you.
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Nope but seer seering me may. Or late game add. Or voting patterns. Etc.

You can look back and see how I killed in recent games. I never let LIS live too long when I wolf, at least in games where I am in a position that I could get to end game (unseerable, alpha, convert, etc.). So it's something you can look back and see to verify
 
SummerTheLynx said:
Nope but seer seering me may. Or late game add. Or voting patterns. Etc.

You can look back and see how I killed in recent games. I never let LIS live too long when I wolf, at least in games where I am in a position that I could get to end game (unseerable, alpha, convert, etc.). So it's something you can look back and see to verify
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I'm not sure why I'm such a threat. 1) I'm a crappy end-game player, so wolves love me in end-game, and 2) Nobody ever listens to me about lynching you anyway.
 
Yup, I'll bus as a wolf. I tend to have some strategy to it though...I'll split the wolves between wolf, neutral, and village reads to make it more difficult to parse out who my fellow wolves are if I die before them. I don't think I've ever voiced suspicion on all of my wolf pack as a wolf before. Doesn't mean I can't, but anyone who has wolfed with me should know that I'm not one to just bus my pack left and right. I'd rather keep them around if I can.

And yeah, I've been operating on feels and impressions more than in depth analysis this game. It seems to be working so I'm not going to apologize for it. What's the use of all my lengthy analysis posts if it's always wrong?
 
WildZoo said:
Yup, I'll bus as a wolf. I tend to have some strategy to it though...I'll split the wolves between wolf, neutral, and village reads to make it more difficult to parse out who my fellow wolves are if I die before them. I don't think I've ever voiced suspicion on all of my wolf pack as a wolf before. Doesn't mean I can't, but anyone who has wolfed with me should know that I'm not one to just bus my pack left and right. I'd rather keep them around if I can.

And yeah, I've been operating on feels and impressions more than in depth analysis this game. It seems to be working so I'm not going to apologize for it. What's the use of all my lengthy analysis posts if it's always wrong?
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Yeah. I usually just try and get my reads out early when I can easily just do it like I'm a villager. Advantage of being old and mental is I can easily forget I'm a wolf and just do my reads honestly.

It's pissed off fellow wolves when I bus them a little harder than intended by forgetting I'm a wolf.
 
PrincessButterCup said:
Actually, maybe I'll take back my comment about her votes making me doubt myself. I don't love her posting history. Unless the search function is broken again and isn't showing some of her posts, WZ has been very unspecific in her feels for the wolves we've found.

She was on Coop pretty early, and pretty consistently, but she never posted a real analysis of her.



It looks like the only thing she ever referenced was Coop's response to Cheat - which was much discussed early game, and I think her analysis of that interaction was a bit of a stretch. To have such strong feels for Coop, to repeatedly say her tone had changed, and then to only ever mention one post? She later called out Coop for not responding to her complaints against her, but really, there wasn't much to respond to.

In the same post, Dubz also throws out Lyra feels, but concludes by casting shade on Kata (villager).



She voted Zen, but again, doesn't say anything specific. Just "twinges."



I don't like her kill analysis either. In theory, it should make her look village - why would a wolf draw attention to kill analysis? It's another one of those seems helpful, but isn't really posts. She sort of feels okay with me (which she did as a wolf in the clinic game, too, before night killing me), but continues to throw some shade on Lyra.



In conclusion: it feels like Dubz is tossing around wolf players in order to build a good track record for herself, without ever committing to giving detailed analysis to any of their posts or voicing specific reasons for her feels. I think I'll keep my vote where it is.
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See, lengthy analysis, wrong conclusions. Who needs it? 😉
I feel like you're being inconsistent in your read of what I've been doing. If my goal was to bus every wolf and make myself look like I'm suddenly a super awesome villager (which, why would I do that, it's way outside my meta), why would I cast shade on kata at all?

WIFOM, but I'm a good wolf. I think I've proven that. It would not be ideal to be playing in a way that is noticeably and intentionally different as a wolf, because it wouldn't serve the goals of wolfing (not getting lynched).

Yeah, I wasn't sure about every single wolf. That shouldn't be suspicious. Villagers (well, unless they're STL) are rarely sure of anything. But I brought up coop every day until she was lynched. I don't remember what other analysis was out there on her, but I don't remember it being much. No reason for me to keep poking her and calling her out at times when no one else wanted to get on that lynch.

Anyway...I'll have to figure out who I'm voting for when I get home. With AM dead and confirmed village I'll be looking back at that Zen lynch again. If we're dealing with a convert only then we're officially at the part of the game that I hate, so death would be a sweet relief.
 
LetItSnow said:
Ok. The fact that I am currently voting for AM cannot be held against me as another vote for the dead. She was alive when I cast the vote, dammit. 🙂

unlynch AM (just to make it official)

lynch cdoconn - getting to be a question that needs answering - but if villager, I'll probably be voting to lynch STL next if I'm still alive
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ugh. LIS. I don't care, lynch me. If you need to lynch me to break eggs, then fine, go break eggs- you will 100% find a villager. And then tomorrow you need to lynch STL.
SummerTheLynx said:
And I am done playing this subtly.

I was seered, two nights ago. Seer, I am pretty danged sure I know who you are, look the heck into LIS tonight. I am assuming that if you do not come on the thread screaming LIS is a wolf tomorrow, then I am assuming he is not a wolf.

And @mmmdreamerz - I am pretty danged sure I know you are the day vigilante (by the choice of target and timing), so why the heck did you kill AM in the manner that you did. I am almost tempted to vote you.
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Ugh STL. There's a thousand ways that could backfire: unseerable wolves, blockers, killing the seer. Seriously? You know this. So why are you trying to isolate the seer?
 
cdo96 said:
ugh. LIS. I don't care, lynch me. If you need to lynch me to break eggs, then fine, go break eggs- you will 100% find a villager. And then tomorrow you need to lynch STL.
Ugh STL. There's a thousand ways that could backfire: unseerable wolves, blockers, killing the seer. Seriously? You know this. So why are you trying to isolate the seer?
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You think an unseerable wolf in this type of game? Blocker is dead. I am only telling seer to call out LIS if they are a wolf, if not, shut up and keep seering.
 
LyraGardenia said:
I didn't, but earlier in the day I was hoping she would come on and defend herself/start contributing so people would change their votes. I wasn't around for lynch close and didn't expect votes for her to stack up the way they did.

Not sure what to make of STL's claim of death avoidance. I believe he was attacked since no one is disputing it, but I don't want to ignore other possibilities such as him being the protector who protected himself but doesn't want to be outed. I doubt conversion would occur this early unless we only had 3 original wolves, but that would seem awfully imbalanced to me. I'll be interested to see if the wolves try again to kill him, or if they'll keep him alive to mess with our heads.

I agree that Zen questioning cdo feels like like it could have been throwing shade at a fellow wolf for village points, with little risk of getting cdo lynched. I also have sketchy feels for AM and genny, I'm still considering where I want to vote today.
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This post my Lyra has been on my mind and I'm trying to think of her reasoning for it.

First: One, her analysis of STL is a bit strange. It almost sounds like it is an idea plant.

Second: This makes me lean slightly more village on cdo. I can't see her bringing this up if this was indeed the reason for it.
 
Interactions during the Zen lynch have me feeling pretty ok about 3m, cdo, and STL. Reminded me that I'm ok with LIS too.
I'm guessing there hadn't been a convert at that time though so if that's what we're looking for...:lame:

It's going to seem retaliatory for me to bring up PBC, but I don't like the multiple times she popped on the thread to say "sorry, busy," and that she didn't give any reason at all for her vote for Zen (in fact she didn't mention Zen at any other point in the game until after she was lynched). So I went on a PBC ISO since I had some time...

The shade thrown at lyra here was weird (in that I don't really understand what she was getting at).
LyraGardenia said:
I appreciate Zen's explanations for her questioning of 3m and Pippy, but agree her play seems weirdly aggressive. I'm not super familiar with her play style, but I went back and skimmed her posts from the immuno game since it looks like that was the last time she was a villager, and she seemed much more laid-back there.
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PrincessButterCup said:
Her thoughts about Zen make me like her for lynch, as well.
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And her only mentions of coop were soft support. So that doesn't do her any favors either.

I just think it's a little ironic (is that irony?) that she is calling me out for not having what she considers good enough reasons for my suspicions of the known wolves, and yet...her deep analysis has been on now-confirmed villagers (pippy, genny) or people who are on my village list (3m, STL...myself 😛), and she hasn't said much about the now-confirmed wolves at all. Only other post on lyra I could find was piggybacking off of something that I said, and which PBC failed to mention in her analysis of me earlier on this page. I had forgotten about that post until now, but if PBC ISO'd me it now feels like she was cherry picking.


I would like to hear others' feeling on PBC because I am a little hesitant, since I know my judgment at the moment might be clouded by annoyance at her reading of me.
 
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***********************************
Dead Wolf Lynch Tally

Cdo (1) - STL
STL (2) - Cdo, nyan
Dubz (1) - PBC
PBC (1) - Dubz

Waffleometer: 3
5/8 voting

Missing voters: wtf, 3m, LIS
Lynch closes ~3 hours
**************************************
 
I would actually be somewhat on board with a PBC lynch....but after the last cycle I'm more anxious about how ties are managed. What is good (or in this case, bad) for the goose could be good/bad for the gander as well if you know what I mean.
 
WhtsThFrequency said:
I would actually be somewhat on board with a PBC lynch....but after the last cycle I'm more anxious about how ties are managed. What is good (or in this case, bad) for the goose could be good/bad for the gander as well if you know what I mean.
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On the other hand, an STL/Cdoconn tie might not be so bad. Get both dealt with at once. And reasonable odds one of the two is a wolf.
 
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