Yahoo Finance: FIRE Movement Pioneer Returns to Work

[drusso]

"If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans..."

A FIRE movement pioneer who retired early with $3 million at age 34 says he must return to work to afford his kids’ college education

Sam Dogen, 45, spearheaded the FIRE blogosphere when he retired early a decade ago. Now, he is trying to return to work.

finance.yahoo.com

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[bedrock]

"If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans..."

A FIRE movement pioneer who retired early with $3 million at age 34 says he must return to work to afford his kids’ college education

Sam Dogen, 45, spearheaded the FIRE blogosphere when he retired early a decade ago. Now, he is trying to return to work.

finance.yahoo.com

I'm not sure where he is planning to send his kids to college? 1.5 million dollars for two kids to go to college?

 

[Ducttape]

thanks for posting.

wait, werent you a proponent of FIRE in the past?

 

[lobelsteve]

thanks for posting.

wait, werent you a proponent of FIRE in the past?

He is, just not of kids.

 

[deleted131481]

If he is making $200k passively this sounds like a return to work for fun and publicity, not because he needs the money.

 

[Ducttape]

assuming a good college, 50k per year tuition x4 years x2 kids = 400k in todays dollars

but... it is anticipated that raising a child to 18 would cost about $233k in 2017. using inflation calculator, that comes out to about $295k in todays money.

so total to raise 2 kids to college plus college expenses runs 867k, based on 2017 numbers. or 1 million give or take 10k in 2023 money.

(and may not include room and board during college, or if their kids are not that motivated/smart and need a 5th year)

yes 1.5mill is more, but it is not out of the ballpark.

 

[drusso]

thanks for posting.

wait, werent you a proponent of FIRE in the past?

I'm still a proponent of FIRE.

 

[Ducttape]

i am so unable to do FIRE.

i am probably more like smolder for decades....

 

[Agast]

If you’re trying to FIRE then you can’t complain millennials/Gen Z don’t want to work

 

[bedrock]

If you’re trying to FIRE then you can’t complain millennials/Gen Z don’t want to work

Doesn’t FIRE imply they worked initially but retired early….compared to millennials/gen z who never really worked at all?

 

[BobBarker]

I think I have decided to work just 15 more years. I will be 55.

 

[MitchLevi]

I'm prob going to 4d per week within the next 7-10 yrs. I'm 43.

 

[lobelsteve]

assuming a good college, 50k per year tuition x4 years x2 kids = 400k in todays dollars

but... it is anticipated that raising a child to 18 would cost about $233k in 2017. using inflation calculator, that comes out to about $295k in todays money.

so total to raise 2 kids to college plus college expenses runs 867k, based on 2017 numbers. or 1 million give or take 10k in 2023 money.

(and may not include room and board during college, or if their kids are not that motivated/smart and need a 5th year)

yes 1.5mill is more, but it is not out of the ballpark.

Good college can easily be $85k per year

 

[bedrock]

Absolutely ridiculous to send your kids to a private university and pay full freight for tuition , living expenses. 85K/year is insane.

Kids should have some skin in the game to earn scholarships and work part time in school.

And unless your gets into an Ivy League schools, all private schools are willing to negotiate on tuition.

Should never pay more than 50% of the official university cost, unless your kid gets into a Ivy League school (or similar -Stanford and MIT).

 

[mdo1738]

assuming a good college, 50k per year tuition x4 years x2 kids = 400k in todays dollars

but... it is anticipated that raising a child to 18 would cost about $233k in 2017. using inflation calculator, that comes out to about $295k in todays money.

so total to raise 2 kids to college plus college expenses runs 867k, based on 2017 numbers. or 1 million give or take 10k in 2023 money.

(and may not include room and board during college, or if their kids are not that motivated/smart and need a 5th year)

yes 1.5mill is more, but it is not out of the ballpark.

Not sure what your requirements are for a good college; my perfectly fine state school is $13k in-state, $25k out of state tuition per year

 

[lobelsteve]

Michigan is $70k per year.
Dartmouth is $80k
Georgetown is $80k
Clemson is $57k

 

[hyperalgesia]

Absolutely ridiculous to send your kids to a private university and pay full freight for tuition , living expenses. 85K/year is insane.

Kids should have some skin in the game to earn scholarships and work part time in school.

And unless your gets into an Ivy League schools, all private schools are willing to negotiate on tuition.

Should never pay more than 50% of the official university cost, unless your kid gets into a Ivy League school (or similar -Stanford and MIT).

Is that true? I don't have kids but didn't think negotiating college tuition was a thing.

Tuition honestly is a great form of birth control. We all make a decent living. It's hard to imagine blue collar folks dealing with the cost of raising children.

Seems like there should be more apprenticeship/education opportunities that offer degrees. This is ridiculous.

 

[MitchLevi]

Michigan is $70k per year.
Dartmouth is $80k
Georgetown is $80k
Clemson is $57k

Dumb IMO.

Those are all out of state and your in state school is well-respected.

 

[lobelsteve]

Dumb IMO.

Those are all out of state and your in state school is well-respected.

But no Division I lacrosse team. Currently ranked 16th. Coach Conry is building a great program based on culture of teamwork and leadership. Tell your kid that all those hours, all that hard work, your bashed in kidney that required surgery: they were nothing. Go to UGA and party. That’s not what we do. We challenge our children to do better than we did. And we set them up for the best chance of success. GO BLUE.

 

[Agast]

Drive a Porsche but nickel and dime your kid’s future

Sometimes we spend money on things because they’re nice

 

[MitchLevi]

But no Division I lacrosse team. Currently ranked 16th. Coach Conry is building a great program based on culture of teamwork and leadership. Tell your kid that all those hours, all that hard work, your bashed in kidney that required surgery: they were nothing. Go to UGA and party. That’s not what we do. We challenge our children to do better than we did. And we set them up for the best chance of success. GO BLUE.

Hold up.

That's very specific.

I for one didn't know anything about lacrosse, which changes the entire thing.

If, though, you have to pay 70-80k a yr for your child to go to college and play lacrosse that's a difficult discussion IMO.

Would I do it? Probably...

 

[lobelsteve]

Hold up.

That's very specific.

I for one didn't know anything about lacrosse, which changes the entire thing.

If, though, you have to pay 70-80k a yr for your child to go to college and play lacrosse that's a difficult discussion IMO.

Would I do it? Probably...

Well, tbh he is getting scholarship money.

 

[Ducttape]

Go Blue!

his college experiences will educate him and enlighten him for the rest of his life.

his sports experience will be one to envy. Michigan sports overall has done pretty well the last few years.

imo, best decision on my behalf that my dad never made...

 

[Baron Samedi]

What's the point of working this hard and making all this money if we aren't spending it on our childrens' futures?

 

[Fpg1245]

I’m getting to the point where I’m questioning if saving even matters anymore. I mean people used to take summer jobs to help pay tuition. I’m not even sure that’ll pay for the books. And saving for 18-20 years? That’s even not enough these days.

Non public colleges are already in the 200K mark. Even my Alma matter is now 67K/Yr and it’s not inconceivable that in 20 years tuition at a private U runs 80-100K/yr and public runs in the 50-60 in state.

At some point you just give up. My salary is never gonna cover this **** and the tax breaks don’t even make it worth it. Honestly I think all these tax incentives may actually be making the problem worse.

I hope my kids do well in school get some money but that’s a stretch.

 

[Pain Applicant1]

I'm not convinced that the ivy league is worth it. I think intelligence, motivation, creativity, etc. are far more important in determining success for most people. Maybe the ivy league helps you land your first job but I bet ivy league students are more likely to possess the characteristics I mentioned and these variables correlate more with success. IOW, the type of person who can make the IVY league is more likely to be successful regardless of which undergrad he or she attends.

source:
-My wife is a yale undergrad grad so I'm thinking about her and her friends from yale.
-also, I'm not just saying that to just save money because I'm happily paying for private school for my young kids.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/how-much-is-an-ivy-league-degree-worth#:~:text=On%20average%2C%20Ivy%20League%20graduates,for%20more%20than%201%2C500%20schools.

 

[RoloTomassi]

Just looked up my alma mater, big D1 state school---tuition 10k/yr

 

[Baron Samedi]

I’m getting to the point where I’m questioning if saving even matters anymore. I mean people used to take summer jobs to help pay tuition. I’m not even sure that’ll pay for the books. And saving for 18-20 years? That’s even not enough these days.

Non public colleges are already in the 200K mark. Even my Alma matter is now 67K/Yr and it’s not inconceivable that in 20 years tuition at a private U runs 80-100K/yr and public runs in the 50-60 in state.

At some point you just give up. My salary is never gonna cover this **** and the tax breaks don’t even make it worth it. Honestly I think all these tax incentives may actually be making the problem worse.

I hope my kids do well in school get some money but that’s a stretch.

I'm just contributing to a 529 and will cover as much as that grows. My kid might have some loans in addition but hopefully will be spared the 500k in debt a lot of new grads start off with. We have the added benefit of a GI bill transfer but that won't cover everything.

 

[doctalaughs]

What's the point of working this hard and making all this money if we aren't spending it on our childrens' futures?

Agree. Also one thing that people seem to forget is that paying for a pricey private collage increases the odds your kid will marry into a wealthy family .

Only half kidding. It actually does increase the odds spouse will he high earning with family resources, significantly easing life in general.

 

[SSdoc33]

Dumb IMO.

Those are all out of state and your in state school is well-respected.

is it?

michigan, dartmouthg, g-town does not equal UGA

 

[SSdoc33]

What's the point of working this hard and making all this money if we aren't spending it on our childrens' futures?

ill answer for bedrock:

 

[MitchLevi]

is it?

michigan, dartmouthg, g-town does not equal UGA

It is dramatically cheaper and the 16th ranked public school in America. It's a great college, and to say otherwise is silly.

 

[SSdoc33]

It is dramatically cheaper and the 16th ranked public school in America. It's a great college, and to say otherwise is silly.

im sure it pulls its weight in the atlanta suburbs.

On wall street? chicago? california? grad schools? not as much

you are really not paying for the content of what you learn in college. you are paying for the piece of paper, the connections, the job guidance, the alumni, and the name recognition.

 

[Pain Applicant1]

Just become an entrepreneur. Then you don't have to worry about any of this name-brand nonsense.

 

[MitchLevi]

im sure it pulls its weight in the atlanta suburbs.

On wall street? chicago? california? grad schools? not as much

you are really not paying for the content of what you learn in college. you are paying for the piece of paper, the connections, the job guidance, the alumni, and the name recognition.

...if you're from GA and want to stay in GA that diploma goes a long way dude.

Many of us Georgians want nothing to do with Chicago, Wall Street or California.

What do you mean it doesn't carry much weight with grad schools? That's a very ignorant statement.

 

[SpineandWine]

Go Blue- very hard to FIRE with children and only being physician

 

[SSdoc33]

...if you're from GA and want to stay in GA that diploma goes a long way dude.

Many of us Georgians want nothing to do with Chicago, Wall Street or California.

What do you mean it doesn't carry much weight with grad schools? That's a very ignorant statement.

LOL

im sure you didnt mind traveling to the coasts to get educated.

who knows they want to stay in georgia when they are 17? who knows what life has in store for someone?

i have nothing in particular against a big public university, and much of life and career is what you make out of it...... but lets not try to pretend that a student has the same advantages there at some of the schools listed above

 

[MitchLevi]

LOL

im sure you didnt mind traveling to the coasts to get educated.

who knows they want to stay in georgia when they are 17? who knows what life has in store for someone?

i have nothing in particular against a big public university, and much of life and career is what you make out of it...... but lets not try to pretend that a student has the same advantages there at some of the schools listed above

Please explain the value in terms of the coinciding debt.

 

[Ducttape]

going to a top tier school - ie ivy league - may have its advantages over every other college.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/09/14/this-chart-shows-why-parents-push-their-kids-so-hard-to-get-into-ivy-league-schools/

The median annual earnings for an Ivy League graduate 10 years after starting amount to well over $70,000 a year. For graduates of all other schools, the median is around $34,000. But things get really interesting at the top end of the income spectrum.

but it is true that it is unclear if it is worth the extra cost of going to an ivy...



maybe include one or two other schools in to this category (ie cal tech), but i suspect that most other 4 year universities are similar, but all are prob better than 2 year colleges.

 

[lobelsteve]

Agree. Also one thing that people seem to forget is that paying for a pricey private collage increases the odds your kid will marry into a wealthy family .

Only half kidding. It actually does increase the odds spouse will he high earning with family resources, significantly easing life in general.

My son is shy (like me).
A ROD's daughter is going there, hope she likes jocks.

 

[oneforfighting]

Just become an entrepreneur. Then you don't have to worry about any of this name-brand nonsense.

That’s what I plan on nudging my kid toward. Entrepreneurship and having a strong background in engineering/computer science/sales. If you can create something and then the ability to sell it, the world is your oyster.

 

[oneforfighting]

im sure it pulls its weight in the atlanta suburbs.

On wall street? chicago? california? grad schools? not as much

you are really not paying for the content of what you learn in college. you are paying for the piece of paper, the connections, the job guidance, the alumni, and the name recognition.

I tell folks all the time that college profs at major universities aren’t all that interested in teaching. It’s their research that they focus on because that’s what advances their own careers. So I never felt like I gained so much from them but rather learned more from the textbooks or course handouts. The very best thing that I got from going to a “top 10” undergrad were my friends who remain my best friends to this day. They are at the tops of their fields and inspire me daily. The question is whether that only was worth the 40-50k tuition that I paid. I don’t have the answer for that.

 

[MitchLevi]

It's like a med school classmate of mine who went to UPenn (250k debt), after which she was a classmate of mine in med school and took out another 300k.

Started off with her first capitalization after med school graduation at 550k in the hole!

UPenn was a great idea for that future OB/GYN.

 

[bedrock]

I think it is worth it to pay $$$ for a ivy league school, or one of the few private universities that is considered in the same breath as the Ivy league
such as MIT, Caltech, Stanford, Juilliard, Duke. Those 15 names will open many doors for rest of their lives.

I just don't think it is worth it to pay full freight for a regular private university or out of state tuition at a "national" state public university.

Now if one of those two school types can give you a good financial package so that the private university/national state university is 1.5 x the cost of the top local state university, I can somewhat understand.

However, I don't understand paying 5x the cost of the top state university for someone to attend a private university or out of state tuition at a public university

 

[bedrock]

What's the point of working this hard and making all this money if we aren't spending it on our childrens' futures?

ill answer for bedrock:

View attachment 369208

I don't have kids so easy answer to Baron samedi.

To ssdoc, LOL. I only have a lowly Porsche GT3, not a 7 figure Porsche 918!

A reward for my 13 years of hard work, and something I regularly use at the track, for which it was designed.

 

[MitchLevi]

However, I don't understand paying 5x the cost of the top state university for someone to attend a private university or out of tuition at a state university

This is my basic argument.

 

[Pain Applicant1]

going to a top tier school - ie ivy league - may have its advantages over every other college.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/09/14/this-chart-shows-why-parents-push-their-kids-so-hard-to-get-into-ivy-league-schools/

but it is true that it is unclear if it is worth the extra cost of going to an ivy...



maybe include one or two other schools in to this category (ie cal tech), but i suspect that most other 4 year universities are similar, but all are prob better than 2 year colleges.

I think parents push so hard because most parents are annoying when it comes to their kids and they want to show off to their friends. Newsflash parents, your kids are not that great to anyone but you and maybe a grandparent or two, lol!

That’s what I plan on nudging my kid toward. Entrepreneurship and having a strong background in engineering/computer science/sales. If you can create something and then the ability to sell it, the world is your oyster.

Agree if you can pull that off. My problem is I'm not smart enough to invent something. I'll stick with the dumb man's method of making money ---> real estate, lol!

 

[Fpg1245]

im sure it pulls its weight in the atlanta suburbs.

On wall street? chicago? california? grad schools? not as much

you are really not paying for the content of what you learn in college. you are paying for the piece of paper, the connections, the job guidance, the alumni, and the name recognition.

Which is why in this period where privilege is under attack I don’t get why the woke crowd hasn’t gone after these schools hoarding all the opportunity…oh wait

 

[oneforfighting]

Agree if you can pull that off. My problem is I'm not smart enough to invent something. I'll stick with the dumb man's method of making money ---> real estate, lol!

I agree that there are no guarantees. Just want to instill an abundance mindset and see where things go...totally agree with you on real estate though.

 

[runfastnow]

Man - all this doom and gloom makes me glad I'm a lazy millennial who won't work hard enough to worry about such things for my kids.