Yale M.D. says all doctors should be forced to wear BODYCAMS because of racist “medial violence” against patients she personally witnessed by ED staff

[Siggy]

So how long would you say is long enough to “fix that damage” and what exactly is your endpoint? I think most would agree with your statement that racism wasn’t fixed instantly in 1965. 60 years of gradual progress was apparently not the mark for you - but is 100 years? 200?

I wished I had a good answer for this. I don't. I also don't think that washing our hands of the problem is the best solution either. However I don't see how anyone can say that we live in a post race society either. How long does it take for a blood pressure to be controlled for someone to stop having hypertension? How long does it take to have a normal A1C to no longer have a history of diabetes? Obviously society isn't the same as the human body and at some point, hopefully, society can be repaired, whereas the damage from HTN or DM will likely never go away.

If you say that 60 years is enough, then can we repeal all of the civil rights laws? If not now after 60 years of gradual progress, can we repeal them in 100 years? 200 years?

For many in this camp- the only concrete goal they can put forward is “equal population outcomes” by skin color, irrespective of individual merits — which I would argue is NOT a good goal. The single convincing study that was cited above for racial bias in hiring/ interviewing would suggest to me that a policy boosting Asians (despite being overrepresented in many fields like Medicine) as much as blacks in job interviews would be the only justified way to go forward to continue “correcting” this legacy of current bias. Of course, I don’t really believe that is the way to go - just pointing out the logical fallacies of this type of thought process.

If people have true equal opportunity in aggregate, there should be equal outcomes in aggregate, correct? I agree that we cannot and should not target outcomes directly. However "how do we ensure true equal opportunity" does not have an easy solution. Continuing the medical analogy, we don't target equal outcome in patients. We target equal -risk adjusted- outcomes. What risk factors are leading to different outcomes, and how can we target those risks?

Now if we want to target "socioeconomic class" or "depressed areas" then sure, but we can't kid ourselves that all too often, in aggregate, it's the same population.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[doctalaughs]

If people have true equal opportunity in aggregate, there should be equal outcomes in aggregate, correct?

Totally incorrect. The cultural values of a group matter way more than the opportunities presented. If a certain group values education, family, work ethic etc in aggregate they will be successful economically even with less opportunity.

Culture is hard to change and we can argue forever why certain cultural norms exist within certain groups in aggregate but that is the main driving factor between most disparity in outcomes seen in society.

 

[emergentmd]

If you look for excuses for one's bad position in life, you will find it. If you fixate on these excuses, you are bound not change one's position. If you accept that obstacles exists, you can overcome it.

Most Obese people I know always say they do not eat much or just how their body was created. But when you go eat with them, they eat 3x as much as I do and never seen the inside of a gym. When they do not accept personal responsibility, they will not change. Hard to change when its perceived as out of their control.

If we continue to seek and make excuses for an URMs poor status in life, they will continue to latch on to it without making changes.

Look at reparation. If you give every black person $1M, very little will change in a few generation. If every black person focused on education, they will create generational change. Its the teach vs give someone a fish analogy.

I see this all the time. My daughter plays VB and she was not given the gift of height. When she uses this as an excuse, I tell her to outwork the others. If we made height as an excuse, she will never succeed. Never have I used my starting line in life as an excuse and I am confident my line was behind many URMs.

Keep giving URMs infinite excuses to latch on to is the worse our society can do.

 

[ScepticSkeksis]

If you look for excuses for one's bad position in life, you will find it. If you fixate on these excuses, you are bound not change one's position. If you accept that obstacles exists, you can overcome it.

Most Obese people I know always say they do not eat much or just how their body was created. But when you go eat with them, they eat 3x as much as I do and never seen the inside of a gym. When they do not accept personal responsibility, they will not change. Hard to change when its perceived as out of their control.

If we continue to seek and make excuses for an URMs poor status in life, they will continue to latch on to it without making changes.

Look at reparation. If you give every black person $1M, very little will change in a few generation. If every black person focused on education, they will create generational change. Its the teach vs give someone a fish analogy.

I see this all the time. My daughter plays VB and she was not given the gift of height. When she uses this as an excuse, I tell her to outwork the others. If we made height as an excuse, she will never succeed. Never have I used my starting line in life as an excuse and I am confident my line was behind many URMs.

Keep giving URMs infinite excuses to latch on to is the worse our society can do.

Maybe we should chop some off another player's legs off and give your daughter a femur graft. Equity is the way to solve all inequality.

 

[wareagle726]

I'm sorry, did I hurt your feelings? I'm not the person who pivoted this to politics. Are you suggesting that people who aren't toeing the far right line shouldn't participate? Because your feelings? Am I invading your safe space?

Pretty sure my post was self explanatory. How you got to these questions/conclusions I have no idea.

 

[emergentmd]

Maybe we should chop some off another player's legs off and give your daughter a femur graft. Equity is the way to solve all inequality.

That surely would make things more equal. I was thinking having the tall ones play on their knees but then she would come up with some other excuse like short arms, slow reflexes, poor vision, big thighs.

Keep giving any class excuses for failure and you keep them in failure. Never have I seen a successful group use excuses as a reason to not succeed. NEVER.

If you fail, its not because you started behind others at the starting line because there are many that succeeded that started behind you.

 

[Kryptocoin]

I would have no problem if this stuff is clearly labeled as opinion. Or- if taught as a course that the other opinion / viewpoint is also introduced and debated freely.

For example, most of the stuff I see as support for “systemic/ structural racism” — especially the Justice, policing and banking studies- is in the form of essentially retrospective / correlation studies. We know that is trash in medicine and easy manipulate, cherry pick or miss other confounding variables. It would be fairly easy to do a blinded prospective study. For example have a second judge blinded to race hand out a sentence and see how it compares to the first judge for 100 people. Or have a second banker blinded to the race portion of a mortgage application test it against the first banker’s decision. Again, easy studies but I haven’t seen them. Public has zero ability to assess how good evidence is here which is dangerous.

Not every topic deserves a counterpoint. Should we teach creationism to balance evolution? What about anti-vax to balance pro-vaccines in medical schools?

If you think in your heart of hearts that the American system treats a white man and a black man the same way, then I don't think even a double-blind prospective study will change your mind.

Even Clarence Thomas couldn't find a job after graduating from Yale. He blamed it on affirmative action, but I think the answer was much simpler: he's black. Unfortunately for him, no matter how much of the kool-aid he drinks, he's still a black man in America. All those billionaires who are wining and dining him will lose his number the moment he stops wearing that black robe.

 

[doctalaughs]

Not every topic deserves a counterpoint. Should we teach creationism to balance evolution? What about anti-vax to balance pro-vaccines in medical schools?

If you think in your heart of hearts that the American system treats a white man and a black man the same way, then I don't think even a double-blind prospective study will change your mind.

Even Clarence Thomas couldn't find a job after graduating from Yale. He blamed it on affirmative action, but I think the answer was much simpler: he's black. Unfortunately for him, no matter how much of the kool-aid he drinks, he's still a black man in America. All those billionaires who are wining and dining him will lose his number the moment he stops wearing that black robe.

Equating anti-vax, creationism and flat-earthing to CRT is silly and you know it. I already pointed out the flaws in the “evidence” pushing parts of the CRT worldview like it’s established science or mathematics.

Moreover, I never said blacks are treated the “same” as whites in this country- even today. Same as being Asian or being a Jew or Muslim - experiences and bias/ tribalism definitely do exist. No controversy there - BUT if you teach a whole subject that is about how SPECIFIC minority groups whole current lot in life is due to systemic “racism” perpetuated by other specific groups and NOT other particular groups— and use that to push specific training, policies and propaganda - yes that part is totally opinion / political / debatable. And yes, that part deserves a counterpoint given the overall toxicity to society. Don’t pretend that aspect is like teaching algebra.

 

[emergentmd]

I just looked up CRT definition from the NAACP so I assume this is about as Left leaning as you can get. Here is the quick blurb "Critical Race Theory, or CRT, is an academic and legal framework that denotes that systemic racism is part of American society"

Here is AI's take "The theory argues that racism is not just an individual problem but a systemic one, deeply embedded in the structures and institutions of society."

So is our country really spending this much energy to examine that water is wet?

Of course we are not. I don't think anyone disagrees that there is racism in any society against all groups including whites.

The reason CRT is pushed is to give people excuses to not succeed in life and create division in our society so people can give importance to their lives. People pushing CRT does not want to change society, educate society but to indoctrinate some to think that their neighbors/friends/family/society is their enemy.

 

[WilcoWorld]

Minorities Who 'Whiten' Job Resumes Get More Interviews - Recruiting - Harvard Business School

The HBS blog for recruiting partners features recruiting advice, company perspectives, and student and alumni stories.

www.hbs.edu

Yep, there in fact ARE blinded, prospective studies.

And if AI software bases its decisions on prior outcomes it is not at all surprising that the AI will make racially biased decisions. This kind of makes the point - you don't need a mustache twirling racist for there to be bias. A biased system can produce biased outcomes, even if everyone working within that system is not an individual racist.

 

[emergentmd]

No one is arguing racism does not exist.

But this is no different than that indian guy who didn't sniff med school until he changed himself to black and got bunch of acceptance.

 

[WilcoWorld]

No one is arguing racism does not exist.

Do you think we should try and address it through study, education, and legislation?

 

[emergentmd]

Do you think we should try and address it through study, education, and legislation?

I do not believe it is as big a problem as we/media make it out to be. Growing up, I can tell you homophobia/racism/other isms was worse than now.

But to answer your question, in the perfect world yes. But in our world, searching for just make it more divisive.

Most grass has small amount of weeds. WE can either pull out them periodically or we can nuke the whole lawn with pesticides creating a bigger problem. We are down the road where the solution will be worse than the problem.

 

[bravotwozero]

Do you think we should try and address it through study, education, and legislation?

Is that genuinely what is being attempted with respect to CRT?

 

[doctalaughs]

Yep, there in fact ARE blinded, prospective studies.

And if AI software bases its decisions on prior outcomes it is not at all surprising that the AI will make racially biased decisions. This kind of makes the point - you don't need a mustache twirling racist for there to be bias. A biased system can produce biased outcomes, even if everyone working within that system is not an individual racist.

If the software detects trends that lending to certain groups leads to higher losses or risks for the banks, that not bias or racism- it’s simple data. Certainly we can look at the algorithm and make some adjustments (like limiting the look back period or making sure the training data is adequate) but that isn’t structural racism at work. Same as certain minorities scoring lower on standardized tests isn’t evidence that the tests are racist.

Do you think we should try and address it through study, education, and legislation?

Sure but the particular type of studies, education and legislation is what matters.

If we are talking about implementing color-blind systems to combat bias (say blinded resume reviewers for selecting callbacks, judges blinded to color handing down sentences, automated software to approve mortgages) then great. If we are taking about teaching about slavery, Japanese internment camps, genocide of Native American populations or Jews and discussing bias in courses — then great.

If on the other hand we are developing whole curriculum teaching that 1 or 2 PARTICULAR groups are oppressed by another group above all others— and that their current situation is wholly a product of these things—- or we are implementing targeted reverse-racism laws in admission or job hiring to “right” these past injustices for ONLY particular groups in an effort to get “color equal demographic” representation in different fields —- no that’s absolutely 100% detrimental and totally wrong.

 

[WilcoWorld]

Is that genuinely what is being attempted with respect to CRT?

I do not claim to be an expert in CRT. I did read Ibram X Kendi's book and, yes, that is what I genuinely think he was writing about.

 

[thegenius]

I do not believe it is as big a problem as we/media make it out to be. Growing up, I can tell you homophobia/racism/other isms was worse than now.

But to answer your question, in the perfect world yes. But in our world, searching for just make it more divisive.

I don't really know how big the problem is, but what I do know now more than 20 years ago is how vocal some people can be about it. Because now they have a voice due to Social Media where in the past they didn't.

It's akin to me thinking that primary care has totally failed taking care of anything but chronic health problems. My perception is based on what I see. Out of the 25 pts/shift I see in the ER, 15 show up because their "doctor/nurse/urgent care" said to get checked out. So my perception is that primary care has failed. They only want to see people with med refills. They have no desire to take care of people with acute medical problems.

In reality I'm biased by what I see because it's a narrow cross-section of society.

We do an absolutely terrible job of educating people on the successes of health care, law enforcement, and education and instead focus on the failures.

 

[EMhawkeye]

I don't really know how big the problem is, but what I do know now more than 20 years ago is how vocal some people can be about it. Because now they have a voice due to Social Media where in the past they didn't.

It's akin to me thinking that primary care has totally failed taking care of anything but chronic health problems. My perception is based on what I see. Out of the 25 pts/shift I see in the ER, 15 show up because their "doctor/nurse/urgent care" said to get checked out. So my perception is that primary care has failed. They only want to see people with med refills. They have no desire to take care of people with acute medical problems.

In reality I'm biased by what I see because it's a narrow cross-section of society.

We do an absolutely terrible job of educating people on the successes of health care, law enforcement, and education and instead focus on the failures.

Yes. I have been on both sides of this in both the primary care office and in the ED.
Sometimes I try to remind myself that some patients may be BS'ing me and just came in because they wanted to, not because their pcp sent them. Also for the 10 patients the pcp's sent in tonight, maybe there were another 100 they dealt with recently on their own that saved them an ER visit.

 

[skougess]

Yes. I have been on both sides of this in both the primary care office and in the ED.
Sometimes I try to remind myself that some patients may be BS'ing me and just came in because they wanted to, not because their pcp sent them. Also for the 10 patients the pcp's sent in tonight, maybe there were another 100 they dealt with recently on their own that saved them an ER visit.

Oh they are bs’ing you 99 times out of 100. My primary care colleagues are quite good in my community.

Urgent care referrals on the other hand. Sooooo many instant discharges for what should have been instant discharges at urgent care.

 

[ScepticSkeksis]

Oh they are bs’ing you 99 times out of 100. My primary care colleagues are quite good in my community.

Urgent care referrals on the other hand. Sooooo many instant discharges for what should have been instant discharges at urgent care.

I get about 1 transfer a week for a pediatric patient sent from the urgent care for "emergent urology consultation". Turns out they are all just run-of-the-mill balanitis. But NPs have the brain of a doctor......

 

[EMhawkeye]

I get about 1 transfer a week for a pediatric patient sent from the urgent care for "emergent urology consultation". Turns out they are all just run-of-the-mill balanitis. But NPs have the brain of a doctor.....

Jenny Mc jennersom at urgent care sends a 6 month old from urgent care for tachycardia. Sends me a note with patient. Evaluate for heart rate of 120.
Beyond the capabilities to google age adjusted vital signs.

 

[Boatswain2PA]

One shop I work at has a chain UC across the street run by what one patient described as a "14 year old girl". Last shift there:

54 yo runner, went to UC for last minute work physical. Sent to ED for bradycardia (HR 54). " I'm sorry they wasted your time, but no I'm not doing your physical."

Minor head bonk on teenager sent for head CT. "I'm sorry they wasted your time".

Uncomplicated 3rd MIP dislocation from dog leash sent by UC for ortho. X-Ray done in UC. Reduced without need of analgesia and splinted. "I'm sorry they wasted your time "

 

[DocEspana]

One shop I work at has a chain UC across the street run by what one patient described as a "14 year old girl". Last shift there:

54 yo runner, went to UC for last minute work physical. Sent to ED for bradycardia (HR 54). " I'm sorry they wasted your time, but no I'm not doing your physical."

Minor head bonk on teenager sent for head CT. "I'm sorry they wasted your time".

Uncomplicated 3rd MIP dislocation from dog leash sent by UC for ortho. X-Ray done in UC. Reduced without need of analgesia and splinted. "I'm sorry they wasted your time "

see THIS is the quality post I want to see here.

now lets publish that body cam footage of you saying some variation of "no I wont provide the care you decided you needed before arriving here" to prove you just don't care about humans.

 

[Kryptocoin]

Cedars-Sinai Medical Center facing federal probe over treatment of Black mothers

The federal government has launched a civil rights investigation into how Cedars-Sinai Medical Center treats Black women who give birth at the Los Angeles hospital.

abcnews.go.com

OB physician settled for $1M. Hospital settled too. Feds investigating for racial pattern. Black women have a high maternal mortality rate of 2.6x compared to white women.

I don't think bodycams is the answer but if we keep getting cases like this, it might just happen.

 

[ScepticSkeksis]

Cedars-Sinai Medical Center facing federal probe over treatment of Black mothers

The federal government has launched a civil rights investigation into how Cedars-Sinai Medical Center treats Black women who give birth at the Los Angeles hospital.

abcnews.go.com

OB physician settled for $1M. Hospital settled too. Feds investigating for racial pattern. Black women have a high maternal mortality rate of 2.6x compared to white women.

I don't think bodycams is the answer but if we keep getting cases like this, it might just happen.

Because there is nothing else in either socio-economic or behavioral patterns that could account for higher mortality other than racism...

 

[Kryptocoin]

Because there is nothing else in either socio-economic or behavioral patterns that could account for higher mortality other than racism...

White and Hispanic women have similar maternal outcomes. If poverty was a major factor, then we should see some disparity between White and Hispanic mothers. See Figure 1:

Maternal Mortality Rates in the United States, 2021

National Center for Health Statistics

www.cdc.gov

I'm not sure what you mean by "behavioral patterns".

 

[ScepticSkeksis]

White and Hispanic women have similar maternal outcomes. If poverty was a major factor, then we should see some disparity between White and Hispanic mothers. See Figure 1:

Maternal Mortality Rates in the United States, 2021

National Center for Health Statistics

www.cdc.gov

I'm not sure what you mean by "behavioral patterns".

Okay so racism then.

 

[EMhawkeye]

One shop I work at has a chain UC across the street run by what one patient described as a "14 year old girl". Last shift there:

54 yo runner, went to UC for last minute work physical. Sent to ED for bradycardia (HR 54). " I'm sorry they wasted your time, but no I'm not doing your physical."

Minor head bonk on teenager sent for head CT. "I'm sorry they wasted your time".

Uncomplicated 3rd MIP dislocation from dog leash sent by UC for ortho. X-Ray done in UC. Reduced without need of analgesia and splinted. "I'm sorry they wasted your time "

Nurse practitioners sue California over restricted use of 'doctor'

3 nurse practitioners are suing the state of California over its restrictions on the use of

www.beckershospitalreview.com

 

[Goro]

I wonder if she filed a formal complaint and named names of who committed these alleged racist acts, at her workplace, Yale.

If so, who committed these alleged racist acts? Let’s hear the names. What was the result of the investigation, and what is Yale doing about it?

Certainly, laughing while someone died and making racist comments as they die, is grounds for termination? Who was terminated?

Are there sadistic racists still interacting with critically ill and injured patients at Yale?

If she did not file a formal complaint, why not? Are there other witnesses to these racist acts? Who are they? Do they agree the situations happened as she describes them? If not, what is their interpretation? Or, are there no other witnesses?

Out of the thousands of Yale employees, certainly others must have witnessed this behavior?

Who are they? What did they see and hear?

These are serious allegations. As far as I’m concerned, if she’s making these allegations, she has the responsibility to name names and file a formal complaint, so they can be investigated.

If she isn’t naming names, and isn’t filing a formal complaint, I think it begs the question, what not?

You have a great riposte right here for a letter to the editor to undo a lot the damage she may cause

 

[GassYous]

You have a great riposte right here for a letter to the editor to undo a lot the damage she may cause

HEY EURAKARTE INSULT

 

[ShockIndex]

Can you provide any examples of effective cancellation for criticizing Critical Race Theory? I get the impression that Cancel Culture is another bogeyman used to scare people and stir up outrage. Jordan Peterson was mentioned above for his opposition to Critical Race Theory, so I looked up where he is now and it appears that he retired (was not fired) from the University of Toronto (he holds an emeritus position still), now teaches at Ralston College, and has an estimated net worth of $8 million. That doesn't sound cancelled to me.

I guess what I'm saying is that I am concerned that loaded terms like CRT and Cancel Culture get introduced and distract from an actual good faith debate. Similarly, if I'm talking with someone on the left and they start calling people "Nazis" I realize that I'm probably not going to have a useful conversation with that person.

Probably the most egregious recent example coming out of Canada not Peterson but instead that of Toronto principal Richard Bilkszto.

Jamie Sarkonak: Principal berated for 'white supremacy' sues TDSB over equity training

Alleged bullying incident shows why public shouldn't be paying for diversity, equity and inclusion training

nationalpost.com

In medicine, I’d include Kieran Bhattacharya who was banned from UVA’s campus for questioning microaggressions during a panel interview. EDIT: Recent facts brought to light in court suggest that Bhattacharya’s claim of discrimination is without merit.

Also, I recall sentencing disparities between crack and powder cocaine being offered as examples of systemic racism in this thread - one being white collar, the other an urban crime. I apologize if it was not you who brought this up, but I’ll respond here to save bandwidth. Such a notion is a vast oversimplification of why those laws were created. For better or worse, crimes associated with violence in the US carry disproportionate punishment. This occurs across state and federal codes in matters unrelated to drugs, and is predicated on the popular notion that harsh punishments deter crime. Unfortunately, the crack epidemic of the ‘80s was rather unique in having a level of violence not seen with heroin or powder cocaine. This is particularly true if we were talking about lives lost on a per ounce traded, making it difficult to criminally distinguish users from dealers. Thus, much of the debate at the time of those laws being passed centered around curbing the violence associated with even low-volume crack trade (hence the video clip of then Sen. Biden bragging about the severe punishment his bill would deliver for a few ounces of crack). These bills were passed in the ‘80s with broad public support including support from black leaders desperate to stop the bloodshed on their streets. It had much less to do with white vs black regardless if we want to apply such a monochromatic lens to history’s retro-spectoscope when examining the predictable results.

 

[BoardingDoc]

In medicine, I’d include Kieran Bhattacharya who was banned from UVA’s campus for questioning microaggressions during a panel interview.

Umm, no. That was the claim he made when he sued after being kicked out. The court on the other hand said (emphasis mine):

Simply put, there is no clearly established First Amendment retaliation claim for taking action against a student who, in the same time period that he is repeatedly involuntarily committed to mental health institutions for threatening others, makes protected speech in an aggressive and unprofessional manner, especially where there is no evidence whatsoever that the content of his speech, rather than his tone or demeanor, was the cause of the adverse action. It does not matter which of the alleged adverse actions the Court considers here; there is no glimmer of a clearly established claim.

Bhattacharya v. Murray, Jr., 3:19-cv-54, 20 (W.D. Va. Aug. 19, 2022)

 

[ShockIndex]

Umm, no. That was the claim he made when he sued after being kicked out. The court on the other hand said (emphasis mine):

Simply put, there is no clearly established First Amendment retaliation claim for taking action against a student who, in the same time period that he is repeatedly involuntarily committed to mental health institutions for threatening others, makes protected speech in an aggressive and unprofessional manner, especially where there is no evidence whatsoever that the content of his speech, rather than his tone or demeanor, was the cause of the adverse action. It does not matter which of the alleged adverse actions the Court considers here; there is no glimmer of a clearly established claim.

Bhattacharya v. Murray, Jr., 3:19-cv-54, 20 (W.D. Va. Aug. 19, 2022)

Nice catch. I’ve not followed that case in the past year when those additional facts came out. I went to UVA as an undergraduate and recalled the case because it made a small stir among the alum. Apologize for the inaccuracy in that example.

 

[Rendar5]

Because there is nothing else in either socio-economic or behavioral patterns that could account for higher mortality other than racism...

A lot of racism is unconscious and done without malintent. My wife is a well educated black women in a very high socioeconomic group. She still gets treated differently in person compared over the phone with a lot of people in ways that are very clearly based on either knowing or not knowing she is black. Are these evil racist people? I wouldn’t say evil at all (in most cases) but biases clearly reveal themselves every day. not a single one of these persons would consider themselves racist in any way nor would most others. But doesn’t change the fact that behaviors clearly change and in many ways she will get treated worse off. (These people tend to Either be upset or at least uncomfortable that she’s socioeconomically higher than someone and they don’t feel she should be, or they’ll treat her as uneducated when she’s anything but)

As for healthcare disparities. There are many reasons they exist. Some of them are socioeconomic, some cultural, some even have actual biological causes that many who want to argue biases can’t acknowledge exist. But at the end of the day they do not explain everything, and there is still the fact that people treat certain groups worse than others and are completely oblivious to the fact that they do so.

 

[anonperson]

Cedars-Sinai Medical Center facing federal probe over treatment of Black mothers

The federal government has launched a civil rights investigation into how Cedars-Sinai Medical Center treats Black women who give birth at the Los Angeles hospital.

abcnews.go.com

OB physician settled for $1M. Hospital settled too. Feds investigating for racial pattern. Black women have a high maternal mortality rate of 2.6x compared to white women.

I don't think bodycams is the answer but if we keep getting cases like this, it might just happen.

Simple. This case is basically a $hitty doctor not doing the right thing. Since Cedars has deeper pockets, they will get dragged in. I have no doubt that the nursing staff probably treats medicaid/medi-cal patients worse though.

In the above case, apparently the c section was done in 17 minutes. Patient apparently had a bladder laceration and hemorrhaged from a likely improper uterine repair.

You see some of these $hitty docs whip out c sections in an absurd amount of time like a badge of honor. Typically, if you're doing a reasonable job, c section should take 30 to 60 minutes.

There is a claim that the OB was not notified for hours.

Cedars uses an EMR. I know for myself, after I do a c section, I will either check the chart or call nursing just to follow up a few hours later to make sure no issues with vitals etc.

A Los Angeles Family Seeks Answers — And Accountability — After Black Mom Dies In Childbirth

April Valentine died at Centinela Hospital. Her daughter was born by emergency C-section. She'd gone into the pregnancy with a plan, knowing Black mothers like herself were at higher risk.

laist.com

This patient specifically chose a Black female OBGYN and still died. Died at a Prime health hospital which means garbage staff and lack of staff.

I haven't been able to find a cause of death. Could have been a PE or amniotic fluid embolism ( low chance of survival even if everything done right).

_----------------------------------------------------------

I work at an FQHC which by definition is a high risk population. Mainly Hispanic, some Black, some Asian, rarely white people.

Anecdotally, the BMI of the Black women will be higher which corresponds to a higher risk of diabetes, HTN, pre eclampsia, c section etc.

It's not the only reason for worse outcomes but it's not a one sized fits all approach.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

It’s kinda funny/sad that she sees bodycams as a method to end racism in medicine through the mass stripping of licenses that she sees as the natural of regular bodycam use.

If you read the original oped piece, that’s her belief. That racial disparities in outcomes are the direct result of explicit racism that can be objectively proved with video footage. And that footage will lead to the offending doc losing their license in the same way that shooting an unarmed kid in the back should get a cop fired.

She then backs her case for explicit racism in healthcare by citing the case of a relative who had unrecognized anaphylaxis by a triage nurse, an older physician that admitted for COVID that was discharged despite subjective SOB then bounced back and ultimately died, and a post partum hemorrhage where CT delays led to a death. Not smoking guns.

So indirectly, she reveals what I think is the actual “racism” in medicine - namely the quality of care you’re going to get in different cities/neighborhoods/urban vs rural etc.

Are you going to a hospital in a well off suburb? Probably getting pretty decent care.

Are you going to an underfunded county hospital in the ghetto/rural “critical access” hospital with zero resources? Probably getting pretty **** healthcare.

I’m rural. Where I am, the quality of care at the local hospital sucks ass regardless of the race of whomever walks in the door. Underfunded hospital + washed up docs with board actions in multiple states + support staff of questionable work ethic (“it’s all we can find nearby”) = care that isn’t exactly world class. Wife and I are both healthcare professionals, and we both know that if something wonky and urgent starts happening health wise, you are to pack the other up and start driving to the nearest tertiary ER. If you must must go to the local hospital, push for a transfer asap. The barbarians there will kill me just as easily as they kill anybody else who comes in. Doesn’t matter if I’m a white male doctor.

The urban county hospital? I’ve worked at one before and I agree that the care sucks for African Americans and Latinos there - but then again it kinda sucks there for almost everyone who walks in the door.

Wearing body cams fixes none of this. Yes, I’ve absolutely encountered individual racist doctors etc (when I worked in the rural south, some senior partners in my practice were actually KKK members - no joke), but I don’t feel that accounts for most of what the real “racism” is in American medicine, which is that we do a complete **** job of getting care to impoverished people, rural or urban, many of whom also happen to be nonwhite.