You won't get "rich" as an MD

[link2swim06]

Maybe next we can discuss how celebrities with millions aren't even rich because they can't afford places like these:

http://www.luxuryrealestate.com/650685


http://www.luxuryrealestate.com/941960

You're not rich you stupid celebrity. Does your house have its own U.S.G.A. rated 18 hole golf course. I don't think so you broke p.o.s.

Holy Crap the yearly taxes on that first property are $162,694 per year!

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[MDHopeful2010]

oh dear, i thought 600/50=12

Why is everyone assuming there will be only 1 household income earner?

I feel there is a high chance the majority of us with families will have another income earner of 100K+

Heck, if two doctors marry and your combined income is 600K, you are going to tell me this is not rich?

Let me put it this way....a family of 2 doctors (600K per year) make 8 times what the average family (50K) makes (after taxes are accounted for).

 

[calvinNhobbes]

oh dear, i thought 600/50=12

Yes it is, if you assume a 0% tax rate or flat tax. Missed that part did ya?

Now, 320/40 = 8 (ie. a 46% vs 20% tax rate). Reading comprehension is the bee's knees!

 

[tncekm]

One other thing people seem to forget quite often. The average physician works 55hrs/wk. If you consider time and a half (which I know physicians don't get, but everyone else does so I include it so we're looking at an apples to apples comparison), that's the equivalent of being paid for 68hrs/wk.

Do your math with that in mind. Physicians don't make WAY more than everybody else, they just work a hell of a lot.

 

[MacVA]

One other thing people seem to forget quite often. The average physician works 55hrs/wk. If you consider time and a half (which I know physicians don't get, but everyone else does so I include it so we're looking at an apples to apples comparison), that's the equivalent of being paid for 68hrs/wk.

Do your math with that in mind. Physicians don't make WAY more than everybody else, they just work a hell of a lot.

Most professionals work 55 hours a week. That is pretty standard across the board. Also, most non hourly employees are exempt from FLSA so they do not earn any overtime.

Also, where do you get the idea that government workers make $60 and change an hour?

 

[slowbutsteady]

Two minutes ago the panel on MSNBC's "Morning Joe" (a mix of liberals and conservatives) agreed completely on the following:

If you are a family of 4 making $200,000 in NYC, you are not "rich." Far from it. You are "living pay check to pay check" and will struggle to send the kids to college.

BOOM, done and done!

 

[auburnO5]

Two minutes ago the panel on MSNBC's "Morning Joe" (a mix of liberals and conservatives) agreed completely on the following:

If you are a family of 4 making $200,000 in NYC, you are not "rich." Far from it. You are "living pay check to pay check" and will struggle to send the kids to college.

BOOM, done and done!

Yeah and that pretty much proves nothing. Maybe if you were a PCP getting very, very low end pay in NYC and you had a lazy wife who wouldn't work, then you might be struggling.

My suggestion for ^^^ that family: MOVE OUT OF NYC

 

[UnlonelyRoad]

Two minutes ago the panel on MSNBC's "Morning Joe" (a mix of liberals and conservatives) agreed completely on the following:

If you are a family of 4 making $200,000 in NYC, you are not "rich." Far from it. You are "living pay check to pay check" and will struggle to send the kids to college.

BOOM, done and done!

I am confused. How can a family of four making $200,000 be "living paycheck to paycheck", yet a family of four making $80,000 is also "living paycheck to paycheck". Is the family making $80,000 actually poor?

 

[NYR56]

They key words are "in NYC". They can still live relatively comfortably but it's true they wouldn't have a large savings. Sending the kids to college would definitely be a struggle. The point is that the cost of living varies drastically from one region to another.

 

[UnlonelyRoad]

They key words are "in NYC". They can still live relatively comfortably but it's true they wouldn't have a large savings. Sending the kids to college would definitely be a struggle. The point is that the cost of living varies drastically from one region to another.

Certainly, but my point was about the $80,000 family. Are they poor if they live in NYC? Is the poverty line just that high there?

 

[NYR56]

Without government assistance, I can't imagine a family of 4 making 80K living there (Manhattan) comfortably at all. Based on my experiences with my friends who live in Manhattan, it seems a single person needs about 60K to live there and you'll be watching where you eat constantly. Forget about trying to support three other people with only 20K more.

I lived in Queens for a year though and it's more reasonable but still a challenge. There's a reason I ate pasta every single week (my hospital called me the pasta boy).

 

[slowbutsteady]

They cannot live in Manhattan on that income, I believe. Unless it is a crazily rent controlled building.

And, btw, under the Health Care Bill, any family of 4 that earns less than $$88,000 is eligible for government subsidies to help pay the insurance premiums!!!

 

[shusportsmed]

I am confused. How can a family of four making $200,000 be "living paycheck to paycheck", yet a family of four making $80,000 is also "living paycheck to paycheck". Is the family making $80,000 actually poor?

You just wont find a family making 80,000 in Manhattan, the average rent per month for a studio is around 2K a month... That is a studio! To live anywhere near the city and its surrounding suburbs for a family making under 200k a year is a struggle. out here on long island the average property tax is 14K a year where i live, and i don't even live on the north shore where all the real money is. What people fail to realize is where the cost of living is higher the salaries are higher. the average salary for physicians are the AVERAGE, if you live in a place where the COL is higher your salary is going to reflect that. A Physician in NYC is going to be making more than a Physician in North Dakota because it costs more to live in NYC

 

[deleted307836]

You just wont find a family making 80,000 in Manhattan, the average rent per month for a studio is around 2K a month... That is a studio! To live anywhere near the city and its surrounding suburbs for a family making under 200k a year is a struggle. out here on long island the average property tax is 14K a year where i live, and i don't even live on the north shore where all the real money is. What people fail to realize is where the cost of living is higher the salaries are higher. the average salary for physicians are the AVERAGE, if you live in a place where the COL is higher your salary is going to reflect that. A Physician in NYC is going to be making more than a Physician in North Dakota because it costs more to live in NYC

In general, NYC (I'm mostly referring to Manhattan) does have much higher average salaries than comparable counterparts located in other areas of the country.

And while it is hard to get accurate information about health care/physician salaries in NYC, the pay is definitely not as high as one would think. A lot of physicians want to work in NYC, so the demand is very low and salaries reflect this. Many psychiatrists probably make ~ 110-120k in Manhattan, which as you know is absolutely nothing when considering debt, years spent in school (opportunity cost), and Manhattan's cost of living... the highest in the nation.

 

[bigmike7104]

According to salary.com the 25th percentile for a manhattan psychiatrist is 196,000 and 75th percentile is 243,000, while the 75th percentile for the country is 180,000. So the cost of living is definetly factored. Also according to city data.com, the average household income for NYC is 50 thousand, but the people making the average clearly aren't living in mahattan.

 

[deleted307836]

According to salary.com the 25th percentile for a manhattan psychiatrist is 196,000 and 75th percentile is 243,000, while the 75th percentile for the country is 180,000. So the cost of living is definetly factored. Also according to city data.com, the average household income for NYC is 50 thousand, but the people making the average clearly aren't living in mahattan.

Yes, salary.com does say that. They also say the average nurse anesthetist salary is about 170k in nyc, if my memory serves me correctly (the actual average salary is about 120k for nurse anesthetists in nyc).

Salary.com works by taking the national average for a job and then adjusting that figure to the average cost of living increase/decrease for a particular geographic location. This is horribly unscientific and in the case of health care salaries, is grossly misleading.

 

[bigmike7104]

^I had no idea they did that.

 

[deleted307836]

^I had no idea they did that.

If you want more accurate information on salaries, try glassdoor.com. They have (supposedly) the actual salaries earned by actual people. From what I've seen, it appears to be fairly accurate and much more representative of reality than other salary sites.... the only problem with it is the small sample size.

 

[slowbutsteady]

According to salary.com the 25th percentile for a manhattan psychiatrist is 196,000 and 75th percentile is 243,000, while the 75th percentile for the country is 180,000. So the cost of living is definetly factored. Also according to city data.com, the average household income for NYC is 50 thousand, but the people making the average clearly aren't living in mahattan.

My sister pays $2,300/month for a studio in Manhattan.

Even on $250,000 or $300,000, this will not be an affluent life for a family of 4.

That said, if you practice medicine in Manhattan, you can live in Brooklyn! There are great neighborhoods in Brooklyn for more reasonable rent.

But that is not "being rich." So doesn't that prove the OP's point???

 

[Cleavername]

My sister pays $2,300/month for a studio in Manhattan.

Even on $250,000 or $300,000, this will not be an affluent life for a family of 4.

That said, if you practice medicine in Manhattan, you can live in Brooklyn! There are great neighborhoods in Brooklyn for more reasonable rent.

But that is not "being rich." So doesn't that prove the OP's point???

i wouldn't want to raise kids in manhantan, i mean how are ur kids going to be excited for life if they already grow up in one of the already exicing cities?

 

[slowbutsteady]

i wouldn't want to raise kids in manhantan, i mean how are ur kids going to be excited for life if they already grow up in one of the already exicing cities?

Very true! And they are not likely to be rich enough to live there as adults. Especially if they become doctors!!!

 

[Gigantron]

See you kids just don't get it. You are looking at it from a student's perspective. You are in debt and you eat ramen noodles, so you think $150,000 is great.

Trust me, when you have a wife and 2 kids and have spent 8 years training, you will not be able to live even modestly well on $150,000.

OK, $35,000 for taxes (federal, state, property); $12,000 to pay med school debt; $40,000 for mortgage payments; $6000 for car payments on 2 cars; $24,000 for food (not including out to eat); $7,000 for basic entertainment (it costs $75 to take the fam to the movies, with popcorn); $12,000 (to clothe 4 people)

I just made those numbers up, they are likely higher, in some cases much higher.

So that leaves $13,000, if you are lucky. That'll go for the new roof you need; landscape service (you don't have time for yard work); car repairs; braces for both kids; health insurance; deductible from health insurance; etc.

If you and your wife drink a bottle of wine a week, at $18 a bottle, that's another $1000 per year.

Oh, hair cut and color for the wife, another $1000 per year.

Forget about joining a country club, ever.

Sorry kiddies, no Disney World this year. Or ever.

But daddy, you're a doctor!!!!

Sorry, I just couldn't help but highlight those words in your mainly kid-centric post. Who says that I am going to have kids? Who says that I WANT kids? I really hate...seriously, I HATE people who assume that I am going to have kids just because I'll have "$$$" when I am the new "millionaire" on the block. Never wanted kids, never will have kids. Now with that said, how bad would MY situation be when you subtract kids from the picture?

 

[Frazier]

what are you peeps thinking?

 

[Cleavername]

But then how will you pass on your genes?!?!

forcefully, thats how.

 

[slowbutsteady]

Sorry, I just couldn't help but highlight those words in your mainly kid-centric post. Who says that I am going to have kids? Who says that I WANT kids? I really hate...seriously, I HATE people who assume that I am going to have kids just because I'll have "$$$" when I am the new "millionaire" on the block. Never wanted kids, never will have kids. Now with that said, how bad would MY situation be when you subtract kids from the picture?

You can live quite well on $300,000 if it's just you. Even in Manhattan (maybe).

No one is assuming you will have 2 kids, but it is common to use "family of four" when discussing how far income will go.

 

[NYR56]

Sorry, I just couldn't help but highlight those words in your mainly kid-centric post. Who says that I am going to have kids? Who says that I WANT kids? I really hate...seriously, I HATE people who assume that I am going to have kids just because I'll have "$$$" when I am the new "millionaire" on the block. Never wanted kids, never will have kids. Now with that said, how bad would MY situation be when you subtract kids from the picture?

No one assumed anything about you. The fact is that you are the one in the odd situation so it doesn't make sense to evaluate how income will be for someone without kids when discussing this. Obviously the salary of any kind of a doctor would be fine for someone like you.

 

[auburnO5]

No one assumed anything about you. The fact is that you are the one in the odd situation so it doesn't make sense to evaluate how income will be for someone without kids when discussing this. Obviously the salary of any kind of a doctor would be fine for someone like you.

*sigh*

This thread really never does end, does it?

It's been covered a million times. Rich is relative.

I am going to be rich as a doctor, I'm sorry that you can't say the same for yourself.

 

[NYR56]

Not sure how you got any of that out of my last post. For the record, I plan to try and become rich as a doctor as well; it just won't be easy.

 

[tncekm]

Not sure how you got any of that out of my last post. For the record, I plan to try and become rich as a doctor as well; it just won't be easy.

Most people who become doctors won't become rich "as doctors"--they do it as business people and investors, often launching off of their physician salary.

 

[NYR56]

I totally agree with that statement. One possible area I plan to work in is with novel medical devices.

 

[Frazier]

I totally agree with that statement. One possible area I plan to work in is with novel medical devices.

Small world. Coincidentally, I plan to work with novel sexual devices.

 

[NYR56]

I've already worked on those.

 

[ILikeDrugs]

Just don't pump out so many friggin kids. The world has enough people in it.

 

[TooMuchResearch]

You can live quite well on $300,000 if it's just you. Even in Manhattan (maybe).

No one is assuming you will have 2 kids, but it is common to use "family of four" when discussing how far income will go.

$12,000 per year to clothe four people? $115.38 per person per week for food (not including eating out)? $40,000 per year mortgage is too much on a $150k income. Buy a smaller house. Why doesn't the lazy wife get a job? I guess my point is, I don't like your numbers.

 

[45408]

A Physician in NYC is going to be making more than a Physician in North Dakota because it costs more to live in NYC

Do you actually know this or are you just guessing?

Usually, regions that are less desirable are the ones that pay more.

 

[jboz]

$12,000 per year to clothe four people? $115.38 per person per week for food (not including eating out)? $40,000 per year mortgage is too much on a $150k income. Buy a smaller house. Why doesn't the lazy wife get a job? I guess my point is, I don't like your numbers.

Because the kitchen IS her workplace brah. Who else is going to take care of the kids and drive them to soccer practice/tae kwon do in the minivan and then take them to Togo's after?

 

[TooMuchResearch]

Because the kitchen IS her workplace brah. Who else is going to take care of the kids and drive them to soccer practice/tae kwon do in the minivan and then take them to Togo's after?

If the kitchen is her workplace, why does she take the kids to Togo's?

 

[Bleg]

Anyone who looks at the numbers given by the OP and doesn't think they constitute someone being "rich" has no business offering an opinion about how much it takes to be rich.

 

[jboz]

If the kitchen is her workplace, why does she take the kids to Togo's?

Everyone needs a break now and then, including the wife.

 

[Oncoloman]

confusion or sarcasm on some of the threads about how much money doctors make. here's some stats on average incomes:

Anesthesiology: $306,964
Surgery, general: $255,438
Obstetrics/gynecology: $233,061
Psychiatry: $163,144
Internal medicine: $155,530
Pediatrics/adolescent medicine: $152,690
Family practice (without obstetrics): $150,267

I'm just gonna say this. If anyone here wants to be a doctor for the money you are SCUM. All wages should be capped at 100,000. That way only people who want to be their will stay. Of course though, the MD applications will decrease by at least 10 fold.

 

[circulus vitios]

I'm just gonna say this. If anyone here wants to be a doctor for the money you are SCUM. All wages should be capped at 100,000. That way only people who want to be their will stay. Of course though, the MD applications will decrease by at least 10 fold.

Please, spare me your pathetic idealism.

 

[auburnO5]

I'm just gonna say this. If anyone here wants to be a doctor for the money you are SCUM. All wages should be capped at 100,000. That way only people who want to be their will stay. Of course though, the MD applications will decrease by at least 10 fold.

Well I think you are an idiot for not factoring INCOME into your choice of a future profession

 

[deleted307836]

I'm just gonna say this. If anyone here wants to be a doctor for the money you are SCUM. All wages should be capped at 100,000. That way only people who want to be their will stay. Of course though, the MD applications will decrease by at least 10 fold.

This is such an idiotic proposition that it's not even worth responding to.

All I have to say is please take some economics and logic courses.

 

[Bleg]

I'm just gonna say this. If anyone here wants to be a doctor for the money you are SCUM. All wages should be capped at 100,000. That way only people who want to be their will stay. Of course though, the MD applications will decrease by at least 10 fold.

This is naive. Medical school is FAR too hard and FAR too expensive to attract those looking for easy money. High pay is a perquisite, no doubt, but precious few practicing doctors are there primarily because it pays well.

If you take away the pay incentive, many of the best and brightest will go elsewhere, where their mental faculties will make them better money. Is that really what you want -- to drive off the smartest and let their places be taken by the less gifted?

You really need to think things through before spouting off.

 

[45408]

I'm just gonna say this. If anyone here wants to be a doctor for the money you are SCUM. All wages should be capped at 100,000. That way only people who want to be their will stay. Of course though, the MD applications will decrease by at least 10 fold.

What a stupid idea. UPS delivery drivers make $74,000/year, without the 12-15 year investment or $250,000 in student loan repayment. Let's pay the surgeon who saves your life 30% more than the guy who delivers your book from Amazon.

 

[GoLytely]

I'm just gonna say this. If anyone here wants to be a doctor for the money you are SCUM. All wages should be capped at 100,000. That way only people who want to be their will stay. Of course though, the MD applications will decrease by at least 10 fold.

Easily one of the scariest opinions I've ever read.

This idea that it's downright evil to work hard for more money needs to change. There is nothing wrong with seeking and expecting a high salary in return for high levels of education and heavy responsibility.

Obama and his army of idealistic college freshmen need to chill.

 

[TooMuchResearch]

Easily one of the scariest opinions I've ever read.

This idea that it's downright evil to work hard for more money needs to change. There is nothing wrong with seeking and expecting a high salary in return for high levels of education and heavy responsibility.

Obama and his army of idealistic college freshmen need to chill.

Feel free to leave your BS political opinions at the door.

 

[GoLytely]

Feel free to leave your BS political opinions at the door.

It's a shame that they're so relevant to the topic, isn't it? I wish they weren't.

The quality of health care in this country will be downright awful if financial incentive is removed.

 

[Frazier]

I'm just gonna say this. If anyone here wants to be a doctor for the money you are SCUM. All wages should be capped at 100,000. That way only people who want to be their will stay. Of course though, the MD applications will decrease by at least 10 fold.

I found your post so silly; I wanted to make sure I wasn't alone...
I went into my alley and found this hobo fellow -- I sat him down and had him read your post.

This is what he had to say about it:

[As you can see, he couldn't manage to look away from your dripping idealism on my laptop-- not even for the photo.]

 

[FutureDoc4]

I'm just gonna say this. If anyone here wants to be a doctor for the money you are SCUM. All wages should be capped at 100,000. That way only people who want to be their will stay. Of course though, the MD applications will decrease by at least 10 fold.

Please don't ever come to medical school. I would never want you as a colleague. Your clear lack of understanding of real life is appalling.

There are so many things wrong in that short statement, that it becomes nonsensical to respond to it at all.