You won't get "rich" as an MD

[VikingLegacy]

baleeted

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[MediCynical]

What? You mean I'm not gonna be able to get a Ferrari once I start residency?

brb changing status to "Pre-Dentistry"

 

[slowbutsteady]

Well, seeing as the only reason I want money is to marry a young woman and raise a big family to live simply and rustically, I'd think 200k+ is a pretty good deal.

Better not be bigger than 2 kids. And by "rustically" do you mean outdoor plumbing?

If so,

 

[Iso4ane]

Since this thread is back from the dead, let me spit out some numbers to put things in a little more perspective.

~20% of American Household have a income of $90,000 or more. (Can be done with or without a college degree)

5% make $167,000 and up

1.5% make $250,000 and up

And to be part of the top 1% the household would only have to bring in ~$350,000.


Median Income of the US is $52K, with the median income across states ranging from $38K in place like Mississippi to $70K in Maryland

 

[shouldvestudied]

Stop mixing your "facts" with my irrational anger at hypothetically being underpaid. It's rude.

 

[Frazier]

 

[jvesco22]

This thread is now about pictures of money

 

[auburnO5]

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c764JWVt5Fw[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Frazier]

What about girls in money?
I hope I lands dat der spinal surgury residence position.

 

[morning]

 

[ILikeDrugs]

I will be knee-deep in shillings as a radiologist or neurologist.

 

[Narmerguy]

Bumping this classic thread to see if we can get the newbies all fired up.

Please just let this thing die.

 

[IvyHopeful20]

I feel sorry for people who're in it for the money. Life's going to be pretty drab for most of you guys - these are the people who end up having a mid life crisis and depression after realizing it's not all cracked up to be after 18 hour days.

Most of my friends, all of them a lot smarter than me, are going into PhD programs in physics, math, etc, and they'll make a lot less than I will. But they're happy because they love what they do - they get up in the morning and are excited by the prospect of solving a puzzle or running some new experiment. I come from a pretty impoverished area and a single family home, I know how important it is to have money. I want to make lots of money too, but this fixation is really obscene. Start a business if you care about that so much.

 

[DrTroll]

Plenty of people make only 40-50k each year and absolutely hate their jobs, at least physicians can make way more than that, so quit complaining!

 

[northgadoc]

The Average Anesthesiologist Salary in 2010 is $362,450, various factors like gender and experience level can affect salary. For a male Anesthesiologist, the average salary is $368,654 and for a female the average salary is $313,529. An anesthesiologist with 5 years or less experience is $339,005 and with more than 10 years experience has an average salary of $377,121. i pulled this data from the Locumtenens.com 2010 Anesthesiology Salary Survey - http://www.locumtenens.com/anesthesiology-careers/anesthesiologist-salary-survey/

 

[web2linc]

If you base your success in life on how much money you make/have, then don't go broke.

 

[348485]

I'm new here, but I'll throw some fuel on this fire.lol

Ivy... you sound like my mom... she's a social worker. Bottom line... medicine IS A BUSINESS. This is America. It's not a business in Europe, Canada etc... but if you want to get into business here in the states... medicine is a great way to make that happen.... because at the end of the day if the money stopped... there would be much fewer drs running around.

And I don't know where you guys are from, but here in NY... I personally know emergency medicine docs all making over 300K, and an anesthesiologist (NOT A PARTNER) making over 500K (granted he's been practicing for what 8, 9 years now, but still... his "boss" is a partner, well over 1 Mil a year.

Theres plenty of medicine in money.... I mean, money in medicine, lol.

my .02

 

[ponyo]

Since this thread is back from the dead, let me spit out some numbers to put things in a little more perspective.

~20% of American Household have a income of $90,000 or more. (Can be done with or without a college degree)

5% make $167,000 and up

1.5% make $250,000 and up

And to be part of the top 1% the household would only have to bring in ~$350,000.


Median Income of the US is $52K, with the median income across states ranging from $38K in place like Mississippi to $70K in Maryland

Didn't read the rest of the thread, but I saw this the other day on Wikipedia and was a little surprised... from the way people talk you'd think $250000 is the median and $1500000 is the 75th percentile...

 

[Reaction]

i mean not all of us are doing it for money lol

 

[biorenaissance]

i mean not all of us are doing it for money lol

Why if you want money and you have gpa above 3.6 would you not go kill the LSAT and get into a top 14 law school? Then you can kill with your smile!!!

 

[trailking]

This money thread sure generates a lot of huffin and puffin. I'm in the hole for about 250k, but I love the work. So I have a bid in on a
used FEMA trailer, I drive a beat-up old pickup, love top ramen, got me a girlfriend that I met at a family reunion and I'm happy as hell because I got me a job while my fancy pants friends in banking,
consulting, money laundering and other dumb jobs are alway scared
of getting a pink slip. Relax, smile and keep messin around in those
body cavities. It ain't bad

 

[Frazier]

Why if you want money and you have gpa above 3.6 would you not go kill the LSAT and get into a top 14 law school? Then you can kill with your smile!!!

No. The lower hump doesn't consist of only non-T14 grads.

 

[biorenaissance]

No. The lower hump doesn't consist of only non-T14 grads.

Bahaha Dukes average starting salary is 160k and its #11 that includes public defenders and clerkships

 

[starstarie]

What? You mean I'm not gonna be able to get a Ferrari once I start residency?

brb changing status to "Pre-Dentistry"

 

[Frazier]

Bahaha Dukes average starting salary is 160k and its #11 that includes public defenders and clerkships

Oh man, talk about inflated numbers. Whoever told you that number is either likely misinformed themselves - or telling a little white lie based off of severely flawed statistics.

Don't believe the hype or law schools that pull wool over the eyes of naiveté.

More specifically, beware of statistical data that is based off of voluntarily self-reported data. It is not a surprise that the hot shots that get 6 figure incomes are more likely to fill out the survey and stamp it with a smile on their face than the fellow who is cursing the the day that he decided to 'go Law'. If 50 out of 100 students complete the questionnaire and return it saying that they are employed and the other 50 don't respond -- guess what? Duke: "we have a 100% employment rate!" ... Sooo what about those other 50 people? Oh just drowning in debt with 40-50k salaries.

Law schools as a whole = masters of deception.

 

[biorenaissance]

Oh man, talk about inflated numbers. Whoever told you that number is either likely misinformed themselves - or telling a little white lie based off of severely flawed statistics.

Don't believe the hype or law schools that pull wool over the eyes of naiveté.

More specifically, beware of statistical data that is based off of voluntarily self-reported data. It is not a surprise that the hot shots that get 6 figure incomes are more likely to fill out the survey and stamp it with a smile on their face than the fellow who is cursing the the day that he decided to 'go Law'. If 50 out of 100 students complete the questionnaire and return it saying that they are employed and the other 50 don't respond -- guess what? Duke: "we have a 100% employment rate!" ... Sooo what about those other 50 people? Oh just drowning in debt with 40-50k salaries.

Law schools as a whole = masters of deception.

http://www.law.duke.edu/admis/employment guess duke university lies about 160k also LSAC requires all school to give employment statistics of every student for their guide. You are right, though not many in the top 14 make money you should keep telling yourself that! Harvard, Yale, Georgetown, UVA, Stanford, NYU, Duke, Cornell all those law students get duped into a masters of deception. While corporate lawyers raid your wife's pension and conquer Google and yahoo with intellectual property suits you keep telling yourself top 14 is a scam You do that I am applying to duke now peace!! If I don't get in to top 14 and end up as some malpractice douche I hope I see you in court!!

 

[Frazier]

Bahaha Dukes average starting salary is 160k and its #11 that includes public defenders and clerkships

http://www.law.duke.edu/admis/employment guess duke university lies about 160k also LSAC requires all school to give employment statistics of every student for their guide. You are right, though not many in the top 14 make money you should keep telling yourself that! Harvard, Yale, Georgetown, UVA, Stanford, NYU, Duke, Cornell all those law students get duped into a masters of deception. While corporate lawyers raid your wife's pension and conquer Google and yahoo with intellectual property suits you keep telling yourself top 14 is a scam You do that I am applying to duke now peace!! If I don't get in to top 14 and end up as some malpractice douche I hope I see you in court!!

You lost credibility when you confused mean (or "average" as you put it) for "median" which is stated...

Guess what?
Take a sample of 9 graduates:

20k, 30k, 30k, 30k, 160k, 160k, 160k, 160k, 160k.

The median salary is 160k as the site says.
The average is 91k.

See the problem already?

Also, you should consider how Duke (or any other law school) is calculating their statistics in their own best interest. "Oh, those applications have salaries of 45k? Well, look, they didn't fill out question #23 -- throw them out as flawed data."

Of course some of the students at the top schools make good money -- but they also work 70-80 hour weeks. I just showed you in a matter of 3 minutes how you were misinterpreting the stats proposed by these honorable institutions as to a measure of -- oh the tune of $70,000/yr. That is almost a 50% pay-cut in salary from what you had floating in your mind as the average. Continue to be a sheep.

PS: why are you on a med forum if you are hoping to be a law student [and even worse] a malpractice scumster?

 

[apoptosis123]

.

 

[slowbutsteady]

This thread has been around for several years because it has generated interesting and important discussions about the meaning of "wealth" and the confusion some premeds from modest backgrounds have a bout the lifestyle they will have as a doctor.

The clever OP put the word "rich" in quotes for a reason.

"Wealth" is in the eye of the beholder, and it is also a very misunderstood concept by the young, especially those in professional schools who will be starting their careers with a mountain of debt.

Top lawyers make $3 million plus per year. But there are only a few thousand of those.

Very few doctors will make that kind of money unless they invent something that is very profitable: a drug or medical device.

But average doctors will do much better than average lawyers, as the original post indicates.

The nub is that young kids think that $250,000 means they will be wealthy. Far from it. They will still live in modest suburbs, have big mortgages, car payments, kids in public school, tough time saving for college, etc. No family trips to Europe, fancy cars, $800 shoes, boats, second homes in the Hamptons.

FINALLY, the OP is making the point that if that is what you think your life will be as a doctor, YOU ARE GOING INTO MEDICINE FOR THE WRONG REASONS!!!

It is a wonderful, fascinating, important career, but you will be solidly middle class, at best.

 

[muhali3]

It is a wonderful, fascinating, important career, but you will be solidly middle class, at best.

Since upper class is defined as being the top 1% of earners, I don't think I mind being "middle class". As a doctor you will pretty much be in the top 5% of the population financially.

 

[ElChamaco]

...
The nub is that young kids think that $250,000 means they will be wealthy. ...
It is a wonderful, fascinating, important career, but you will be solidly middle class, at best.

The complete lack of perspective is assessing the "middle class" to extend all the way up to the top 5% of earners in the country. How in the world can being in the top 5% of earners possibly be called middle class? I'm sorry but that is a patently absurd assertion. Does that make over half of the US population dirt poor since they are earning less than an 1/8th of this amount?

So the poor are the bottom 5% the rich are the top 5% and the middle class are the middle 90%?

A doctor's salary, even a more modest one than you quote is in the very top earning bracket. Whether this translates into wealth depends on other, personal variables. The salary itself however provides the potential for a high material quality of life at a level enjoyed by very few Americans. That is perspective.

 

[slowbutsteady]

The complete lack of perspective is assessing the "middle class" to extend all the way up to the top 5% of earners in the country. How in the world can being in the top 5% of earners possibly be called middle class? I'm sorry but that is a patently absurd assertion. Does that make over half of the US population dirt poor since they are earning less than an 1/8th of this amount?

So the poor are the bottom 5% the rich are the top 5% and the middle class are the middle 90%?

A doctor's salary, even a more modest one than you quote is in the very top earning bracket. Whether this translates into wealth depends on other, personal variables. The salary itself however provides the potential for a high material quality of life at a level enjoyed by very few Americans. That is perspective.

The term "middle class" isn't a numerical one, but rather a sociological one.

If college costs $50,000 a year, and you have 3 kids and earn $250,000 a year, trust me, you are "middle class." Why? Because you have to work hard, save, and you still won't be able to do it without help. So you send the kids to state schools (not that there's anything wrong with that) or you try to get scholarships which you may make too much money to qualify for. Life ain't easy.

So you are far from "rich" if this is your lifestyle. If you want to call it upper middle class cuz that makes you happier, fine.

 

[TheBigCat]

The nub is that young kids think that $250,000 means they will be wealthy. Far from it. They will still live in modest suburbs, have big mortgages, car payments, kids in public school, tough time saving for college, etc. No family trips to Europe, fancy cars, $800 shoes, boats, second homes in the Hamptons.

The idea that someone making $250,000 a year being "solidly middle class at best" is absurd. With that kind of salary and smart money management sending kids to private schools, saving for college, and even the occasional trip to Europe shouldn't be too much of an issue. Since when has going to Europe been exclusive to the wealthy anyway?

 

[ElChamaco]

The term "middle class" isn't a numerical one, but rather a sociological one.

If college costs $50,000 a year, and you have 3 kids and earn $250,000 a year, trust me, you are "middle class." Why? Because you have to work hard, save, and you still won't be able to do it without help. So you send the kids to state schools (not that there's anything wrong with that) or you try to get scholarships which you may make too much money to qualify for. Life ain't easy.

So you are far from "rich" if this is your lifestyle. If you want to call it upper middle class cuz that makes you happier, fine.

That is exactly what I was talking about when I added the qualification "Whether this [salary] translates into wealth depends on other, personal variables. The salary itself however provides the potential for a high material quality of life at a level enjoyed by very few Americans. That is perspective."

If you want to talk about whether you can have a middle or upperclass lifestyle then you have to factor in a lot of variables. But the income itself is at the very top and thus lends itself to a high material quality of life.

It is a facile point to make that $250k goes farther in some situations than others. If you had 20 children and wanted to send them all to Harvard you would have quite a poor lifestyle even with a million dollar a year job...

The potential for a wealthy lifestyle is there in a $250k salary. Whether this potential is actualized is a question of individual circumstances. You could have 0 kids and 3 boats instead, for example.

 

[slowbutsteady]

That is exactly what I was talking about when I added the qualification "Whether this [salary] translates into wealth depends on other, personal variables. The salary itself however provides the potential for a high material quality of life at a level enjoyed by very few Americans. That is perspective."

If you want to talk about whether you can have a middle or upperclass lifestyle then you have to factor in a lot of variables. But the income itself is at the very top and thus lends itself to a high material quality of life.

It is a facile point to make that $250k goes farther in some situations than others. If you had 20 children and wanted to send them all to Harvard you would have quite a poor lifestyle even with a million dollar a year job...

The potential for a wealthy lifestyle is there in a $250k salary. Whether this potential is actualized is a question of individual circumstances. You could have 0 kids and 3 boats instead, for example.

I won't argue with that. But the kids on here often seem to think a doctor's life is full of boats, cars and second homes. Just trying to give a reality check that that is not so.

I recognize, of course, that with careful planning, a family can live very, very well on $250,000 a year. In a modest home in the outer suburbs. With a minivan. and maybe a prius too, but with car payments.

I also recognize that most Americans would envy that family and can only dream of such a lifestyle.

But wealthy people do not have car payments. Or mortgages. Just sayin.

 

[ElChamaco]

I won't argue with that. But the kids on here often seem to think a doctor's life is full of boats, cars and second homes. Just trying to give a reality check that that is not so.

I recognize, of course, that with careful planning, a family can live very, very well on $250,000 a year. In a modest home in the outer suburbs. With a minivan. and maybe a prius too, but with car payments.

I also recognize that most Americans would envy that family and can only dream of such a lifestyle.

But wealthy people do not have car payments. Or mortgages. Just sayin.

I thought even the wealthy like to borrow so than can live even more lavishly. Maybe the super-ultra-rich pay for things in cash, but I think even the rich would get a nice large loan to buy a multimillion dollar house instead of paying off a million dollar home immediately. I've never been under the impression that the rich are debt adverse...

I agree that perhaps some people overestimate their future salaries and also how far their salaries will go, but many people wishing to give a "reaility check" in this thread have responded by being overly negative and just as unrealistic in their assessments.

Another important point is that some people choose to forego their highest possible salaries by opting for less lucrative specialties and not developing business oriented practices. These individuals could be making more money if that was their primary goal. I am thinking here of academic internists at prestigious universities who, with the strength of their med school performance, could've been subspecialists in a lucrative community practice.

Conversely, there are some unfortunate souls who very much would like to maximize their earning potential but end up not being competitive enough for higher paying specialties and lack the business savvy to reach the upper range of their specialty.

 

[randomb]

You lost credibility when you confused mean (or "average" as you put it) for "median" which is stated...

Guess what?
Take a sample of 9 graduates:

20k, 30k, 30k, 30k, 160k, 160k, 160k, 160k, 160k.

The median salary is 160k as the site says.
The average is 91k.

See the problem already?

Also, you should consider how Duke (or any other law school) is calculating their statistics in their own best interest. "Oh, those applications have salaries of 45k? Well, look, they didn't fill out question #23 -- throw them out as flawed data."

Of course some of the students at the top schools make good money -- but they also work 70-80 hour weeks. I just showed you in a matter of 3 minutes how you were misinterpreting the stats proposed by these honorable institutions as to a measure of -- oh the tune of $70,000/yr. That is almost a 50% pay-cut in salary from what you had floating in your mind as the average. Continue to be a sheep.

PS: why are you on a med forum if you are hoping to be a law student [and even worse] a malpractice scumster?

So at least half the graduating class of each T14 law school makes great money and works fewer hours than most residents. Still sounds like a good deal to me, if you're into law, business, policy, etc.

Btw, I've looked at many surveys and I've never seen top 250 law firms making their entry level attorneys work 70-80 hours a week - I'm pretty sure you just made that up to help your point. Also, many of the people making $40-50k who graduated from a T14 law school are in that position because they wanted to be working in public service oriented jobs or judicial clerkships - there's no way of knowing whether a majority of those could have gotten jobs at large law firms which tended (pre-2008) to pay really great starting salaries.

 

[unhappytnt]

If a person has a salary of around $250k/year, AFTER taxes the take home is around $6,300.

$175K in taxes? Are you serious?

EDIT: You edited your post before I posted mine. I was like, WHA?

 

[apoptosis123]

.

 

[45408]

I recognize, of course, that with careful planning, a family can live very, very well on $250,000 a year. In a modest home in the outer suburbs. With a minivan. and maybe a prius too, but with car payments.

I'll have what you're having. Either that, or you're not good with maff.

I make $50,000/year and my wife makes 1/3 of that, and we have a modest house in the regular suburbs, with two fully paid-off cars.

 

[slowbutsteady]

I'll have what you're having. Either that, or you're not good with maff.

I make $50,000/year and my wife makes 1/3 of that, and we have a modest house in the regular suburbs, with two fully paid-off cars.

Well, maybe a suburb of Buffalo!!! (No offense to all those wonderful and affordable small under-appreciated cities.)

But not in NYC, Boston, DC, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Chicago, LA, San Francisco, Miami, Houston, Dallas, Seattle, etc.

 

[slowbutsteady]

I thought even the wealthy like to borrow so than can live even more lavishly. Maybe the super-ultra-rich pay for things in cash, but I think even the rich would get a nice large loan to buy a multimillion dollar house instead of paying off a million dollar home immediately. I've never been under the impression that the rich are debt adverse...


.

You can only take a federal tax deduction on the interest on $1,000,000 worth of mortgage debt.

So, under most circumstances, you would want to pay mostly cash for your lavish residences.

 

[apoptosis123]

Well, maybe a suburb of Buffalo!!! (No offense to all those wonderful and affordable small under-appreciated cities.)

But not in NYC, Boston, DC, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Chicago, LA, San Francisco, Miami, Houston, Dallas, Seattle, etc.

From first hand experience your assessment of a 250k salary still underestimates what you can do for a nice area in San Diego... I would like to know what info/experience you are basing your statements on.

 

[jvesco22]

From first hand experience your assessment of a 250k salary still underestimates what you can do for a nice area in San Diego... I would like to know what info/experience you are basing your statements on.

Not based on anything. He just looked at a map and type up all the cities that were in bold so he could still try to save the claims he keeps making

 

[FIREitUP]

Where do you get your figure of "half the graduating class of each T14 makes great money" from? I'm pretty sure you just made that up to help your point. [If you are referencing to our discussion concerning Duke from earlier -- don't extrapolate so much.]

Also, unless things have drastically changed in the past 3 years - biglaw hours are certainly not your lifestyle-oriented job [and esp not in large cities]. 70 is more on the mark. If your aiming for partnership, go higher [and really, what associate who sells themselves to biglaw would not be aiming for partnership? would they rather just do scut work for the rest of their career?]. Go ask some associates for yourself and give me an "updated" consensus.

Of course there is a way to know how many people get the biglaw jobs -- it is called supply/demand. Law hasn't been booming like it was a decade/2 decades ago and there aren't enough jobs to support a new cohort of grads each year. Even if only 80% of the graduating class from each top14 wanted biglaw jobs, so what? [In fact, the percentage is prob even higher..] They aren't all getting them. To think otherwise is utterly foolish. Don't forget about the top 5-10% of the other 100+ law schools that also have a viable chance at interviews. Sorry to burst your seemingly Utopian-legal-career-outta-T14 bubble.

PS: you, too, are speaking of voluntary surveys. [Just now instead of being from law schools, they are filled out by the employers.] Your looking at flawed data, the regulation is silly. Hours are cut and salaries cherry-picked so that they look like "more attractive" employers. You're likely reading NALP data which is far from being 100% accurate. Vault isn't any better.

+1 My sister is a lawyer and the hours are not at all what I would consider attractive or humane. They know the economy is garbage and they use that to fire employees and put the extra work on those who stay because they know they can. In addition, you are in a profession that is dominated by sharks and relentlessly greedy money grubby pieces of garbage who will find any way to increase their billable hours. Being around those kinds of people and working for them can really suck the life out of you more than an annoyingly entitled patient can, or one that needs dilaudid for his headaches because he's allergic to aspirin, acetaminophen, and ibuprofen.

FYI my sis makes 200k+ and does not like it.

 

[ElChamaco]

Well, maybe a suburb of Buffalo!!! (No offense to all those wonderful and affordable small under-appreciated cities.)

But not in NYC, Boston, DC, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Chicago, LA, San Francisco, Miami, Houston, Dallas, Seattle, etc.

LOL. I don't know about the other cities, but you could buy half of the bolded towns with that kind of salary. Baltimore? Seriously? Houston and Dallas? Even Philly is super cheap compared to places like NYC, Boston and San Fran.

 

[saveourpens]

i mean not all of us are doing it for money lol

So, you wouldn't mind working (as a doctor) for $15 an hour?? lolz

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

I feel sorry for people who're in it for the money. Life's going to be pretty drab for most of you guys - these are the people who end up having a mid life crisis and depression after realizing it's not all cracked up to be after 18 hour days.

That's weird. I've had the complete opposite experience. The majority of physicians who I've interacted with and were dissatisfied with their careers were the ones who thought they were truly "passionate" about the field and about helping people when they entered it. They were the ones who ended up resenting their patients, hating the hours and effort medicine took, etc. A couple even told me that if I didn't care about the money at all, that I should run away from the field as fast as possible or else I'll end up like them.

On the other hand, practically every physician who has told me that they entered medicine because it was a "stable job with good pay" seems to be very happy with what they're doing. Weird. I honestly felt more sad for the physicians who seemed miserable because they idealized medicine too much rather than the ones who were realistic about the financial aspect of medicine.

But then again, the plural of anecdote =/= data.

 

[randomb]

Where do you get your figure of "half the graduating class of each T14 makes great money" from? I'm pretty sure you just made that up to help your point. [If you are referencing to our discussion concerning Duke from earlier -- don't extrapolate so much.]

Also, unless things have drastically changed in the past 3 years - biglaw hours are certainly not your lifestyle-oriented job [and esp not in large cities]. 70 is more on the mark. If your aiming for partnership, go higher [and really, what associate who sells themselves to biglaw would not be aiming for partnership? would they rather just do scut work for the rest of their career?]. Go ask some associates for yourself and give me an "updated" consensus.

Of course there is a way to know how many people get the biglaw jobs -- it is called supply/demand. Law hasn't been booming like it was a decade/2 decades ago and there aren't enough jobs to support a new cohort of grads each year. Even if only 80% of the graduating class from each top14 wanted biglaw jobs, so what? [In fact, the percentage is prob even higher..] They aren't all getting them. To think otherwise is utterly foolish. Don't forget about the top 5-10% of the other 100+ law schools that also have a viable chance at interviews. Sorry to burst your seemingly Utopian-legal-career-outta-T14 bubble.

PS: you, too, are speaking of voluntary surveys. [Just now instead of being from law schools, they are filled out by the employers.] Your looking at flawed data, the regulation is silly. Hours are cut and salaries cherry-picked so that they look like "more attractive" employers. You're likely reading NALP data which is far from being 100% accurate. Vault isn't any better.

So your personal anecdotes are best?

 

[Frazier]

So your personal anecdotes are best?

Hmm, well, I was heading to law school for about 3 years of my undergrad - was accepted to cornell and georgetown [among some other schools] and have probably spoken with 80+ lawyers (from small-timers in my hometown [and neighboring states] to telephone/email convos with associates in the "dreamy" big law gigs during those 3 years). These transactions ranged from them simply [and coldly] answering my questions - to quite lengthly and in depth interactions.

n=~80
[Less questionnaires were likely successfully [and accurately] reported than that from some of these law schools and employers that you guys are speaking of...]


Conclusions: One has the chance of making 6 figures in law, but it is far from anything close to guaranteed. A top rated school helps your chances but, again, not everyone will get what they want. Hours are crap at many boutiques, midlaw and esp BIGLAW entities. Most partners appear to be quite greedy and care little for their employees at the large firms. There are happy lawyers - most aren't. Many wish they could do something else but either A) lack the qualifications, or B) are over qualified with their degree. One particular lawyer wanted to actually teach at the high school level (strange) and applied to every school in the state... Only a few interviews and it turned out he was "overqualified" with his advanced degree. Last time I spoke with said individual he was still at his firm, but planned on applying out of state sans his JD degree listed on his resume. The schools were afraid he would either ask for too much money or leave the school shortly for a "more appropriate job". I believe he went to Cornell or Northwestern for law school [honestly, I don't remember which].

Law is not a field where you simply "kill with your smile" and make "great money" as some of you posters think.
There are lawyers that do good things and are productive to society and there are s***** lawyers who work around chasing ambulances/punctuation technicalities.

This discussion is "so yesterday".
If you wanna talk law, let's go chill at top-law-schools.com - I'll be there, uh, around 2 years ago.