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Discussion in 'Pre-Pharmacy' started by sozetone, Sep 20, 2018.

  1. sozetone

    2+ Year Member

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    guys and gals of class two thousand whatever:

    Do me and (most importantly) yourselves a favor ok? assignment.

    Get back to me with just a few numbers ok?

    1) current unemployment rate for new grads 2018

    2) projected job growth for community pharmacy next 5-10 years at least (biggest sector)

    3) current ( 2018) average cost of tuition for private and state colleges of pharmacy

    4) average student loan amount owed upon graduating 2018

    5) 2018 salaries for retail pharmacists compared to just 2-3 years ago. (starting staff position pay)

    If you want to provide hospital stats instead of retail, i'm fine with that too.
    Next:
    I would like you to summarize why you feel this would be a worthy investment of your whole life.

    Numbers and statistics don't lie. Please use reputable sources if possible. Pharmacy times wont cut it guys. And do NOT ask your college for gods sake!

    I really want to hear from you and will value and consider all your thoughts and opinions. Thanks!
     
    Doktor_dud3 and DOOM N GLOOM like this.
  2. DOOM N GLOOM

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    Actually please ask your college if possible. I’d like to hear what current faculty think are the facts and statistics.
     
  3. DagS132

    5+ Year Member

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    I realize whats going on here but what makes you guys think that people who didn't want to read what you guys are trying to say are going to read that same info from other sources AND post about it?
     
  4. sozetone

    2+ Year Member

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    We hope you are bright enough to do your own research before making a huge life decision and trying to help you avoid tragedy? its just simple logical thought ya know? remember, when i started my trip into school (2003) no research was needed. They were giving out huge money and jobs were abundant. Otherwise I would have at least researched my career field.
     
    #4 sozetone, Sep 21, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 21, 2018
  5. DagS132

    5+ Year Member

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    I am questioning your approach, not your intentions. Also, I left pharmacy for CS despite getting a 95 PCAT score and working as a technician currently due to my own research of this field.
     
  6. sozetone

    2+ Year Member

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    My approach? i just explained that! I want the ACTUAL pre pharmacy students to RESEARCH their own figures and tell me if they feel pharamcy is a good choice. You can't get much more simple than that right? I'm not going to cram the info down their throats in other words. I know you guys are sick of that. However, as expected, so far not much turnout for this thread. Sad. I suppose I also want to see how motivated pre-pharmacy students are to learn about the field they are entering before just jumping in.

    FYI - iv'e been a tech since 1997 and scored triple digits on my Naplex and never got less than a high B (rarely). Graduated pharmacy school with honors. I promise grades do not matter much these days. It's the real world that does not care about grades and eats you alive. Can happen to anyone. It was predicted in 2012 the unemployment rate for new grads would be 20% by 2018. Go see what the actual numbers are. start your homework.
     
  7. sozetone

    2+ Year Member

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    by the way dags, im proud you made the right decision switching. I would have too had i not started this when things were amazing for pharmacists.
     
  8. DagS132

    5+ Year Member

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    I really think you are not understanding what I am trying to tell you. You added a lot of unnecessary information just in this post which makes me believe you aren't getting it at all. Imma just leave and let you keep beating the dead horse.
     
  9. sozetone

    2+ Year Member

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    As i figured not one pre-pharmacy student would take the time and effort to research this. This is the exact reason the field is destroyed.
     
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  10. Doktor_dud3

    Doktor_dud3 CPhT, Pre-Pharmacy

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    I'll bite.

    1) Seeing as there is no single indicator for pharmacist unemployment levels, I have taken averages for the three (accredited) pharmacy schools in my state for the outcome years available.
    % Pharmacists Employed= 40.6%
    % Pharmacists in Residency/Fellowship/Post-Grad = 45.2%
    % Pharmacists Unemployed = 14.2% (I considered non-responses as unemployed to give you the benefit of the doubt.)

    2) I just went with the BLS stats everyone loves. 6% growth from 2016-2026 across all fields of the profession

    3) Average for my state, state school tuition and fees= $24,893
    Average for my state, private schools tuition and fees= $36,017 (I should note, my school is about 4k lower)

    4) I couldn't really find a statistic for this one, so I'll just put my debt forecast in an effort to be as transparent as possible. Take that as you like. (Private undergrad and Private Graduate School) = $142,306 Upon Graduation, given current numbers. If you add the average cost increase over the past four years for my school to each additional year after P1 it comes to be around $143,000 +/-.
    (This doesn't factor in the steps I'm taking to reduce my loan burden (Paying off my undergrad loans now, plan to pay what I can on my graduate loans while I'm in school)

    5) Chain and Independent Drug Store Salaries Average from 2015 (It was kind hard to find this, lol) = ($119,400)
    Average Salary for 2017 $124,170 (This is the same statistic source from above, as far as I can tell)
    I apologize, but I couldn't find any reliable starting salary data, unless you consider glassdoor/indeed reliable. I'll update it if you like.

    I feel pursuing pharmacy would be a worthy investment of my life because it is something I enjoy doing and have a strong interest in. I have never felt as interested in any field as much as I have Pharmacy. I have also enjoyed working with every pharmacist I have met so far, and have very much enjoyed my time as a technician. I also enjoy the way I would help people as a Pharmacist. There's a humble nature to it I find very interesting, and I enjoy (for the most part) the interactions I have with my patients (Maybe that sounds sappy, who knows). I also would be comfortable moving around within my state to find a job (I would feel a little less comfortable moving out of state, but if It is necessary I have no qualms with it.)

    Hope this give you what you were looking for,

    Dd3.
     
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  11. Saisri_PharmStdnt

    Saisri_PharmStdnt Class of 2023

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    I don't need to post all of those answers. I've already spent 15 years in the PBM industry. I know exactly what I'm getting into. I know exactly what my options are when I graduate. I know exactly what I'll be doing when I graduate and how the degree is going to benefit me in order for me to continue doing my job.

    I also understand that not every else does, and not everyone else would want to take the path I did to get to this point.

    All this rhetoric about how awful it all is.. If your goal is to "help" scare away all the applicants who just want the paycheck, fine. You should find a better way to get to that goal.

    But I consider several of the posters on these forums to be just plain bullies and harassers of people who simply want to pursue their career choice. If you are not able to tell these posters apart from those who just want the paycheck, I suppose we don't have to tell apart those of you who wish to protect the profession from those who are just complete and utter jerks who enjoy spreading negativity everywhere they go.
     
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  12. qpwoeiruty123

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    Working as a floater with less than 20 hours a week is still "employed". Why don't you believe what EVERYONE is telling you from personal experience?Those statistics form the government/schools are pure BS. BTW, Walgreens has been freezing wages for the past 2 years and starting salaries are decreasing. Plenty of people complaining on reddit.
     
  13. DOOM N GLOOM

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    1. Yeah keeping track of where students go immediately after graduation doesn’t tell the whole story. You’d have to add to the 14.2% unemployed the % of unemployed pharmacists after residency/fellowship (keep in mind these training programs are stall tactics for a real job) and then there’s the underemployment problem. Plus I wouldn’t trust what schools post about their employment rates because they are survey-based and there’s going to be a huge response bias here — the students who got jobs/residencies are more likely to respond to these surveys compared to those who can’t find jobs due to stigma — in the same way that on Match day folks who match will go crazy with their facebook posts while those who didn’t match are going to stay mum.

    2. Wasn’t the latest BLS projections at 3% or something?

    3. That’s cheap, relatively speaking, which means that pharmacist pay in your state is likely below the national average.

    4. What you didn’t factor into the equation is the additional $20-30k in loans you will be taking out for room and board. When all things are accounted for, you’d have easily taken out $200k+ in loans.

    5. $124k avg salary is for a 40 hour job. Since the standard “full time” job is now 30 hours, the average salary is trending to $93k/year.

    “I want to become a pharmacist because I want to help people.” Have you considered working at a homeless shelter? You can help people in a humble way while not being $200k+ in debt.

    Also you should know that there is a difference in working with a pharmacist and working AS a pharmacist. As an intern/tech you can always defer responsibilities but as a phsrmacist you are fully accountable for all the operations that goes on in the pharmacy... so the mentality is very different (and obviously much more stressful).
     
  14. Doktor_dud3

    Doktor_dud3 CPhT, Pre-Pharmacy

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    Salaries for my area average at about $136,000. I commute to school/have housing paid for, no loans there. I know 2 people personally who graduated from my school in the past two years who work 40+ a week. One even works within driving distance of the school. I like what I do, at the end of the day the only one I need to justify my decision to is myself. I'm perfectly fine with the responsibility shift, as well. I know what I am getting into. Thank you for your advice, none the less.
     
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  15. BC_89

    Moderator Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 2+ Year Member

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    Without my outlier background (VA pension rating, medical retirement insurance, Voc-Rehab + GI Bill to cover cost and basic housing allowance tax free) despite working in a pharmacy for years, I couldn’t recommend it with short hours and clutter up against student debt....

    I’m bent outta shape just because I have an accepted engineering offer but also a full ride to pharmacy school with a clean record to continue work in VA (prior service so that helps) which I just found out today. I have a couple weeks to think on it so a blessed predicament.... for anyone else against student debt? Not a chance
     
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  16. Timbo

    7+ Year Member

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    I think it's important to also keep an eye on current industry trends and predictions that the statistics aren't taking into account. In the news a lot recently: stores getting closed, hours and benefits getting cut, company mergers (which also results in stores closing and layoffs), still more and more schools opening, PBMs reducing reimbursement (results in more cuts), trend towards more mail order (there goes your dream of "helping people"), Amazon getting into the industry and potentially making retail pharmacies extinct like they did bookstores and electronic stores... Also not in the news as much but I frequently hear stories of large hospitals layoffs as well.
     
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