Midwestern (CCOM) vs. Rosalind Franklin (CMS)

[bitternsweetxo2]

Hi there! With the 12/14 deadline coming up, I need to make a decision about whether to submit a deposit to CCOM or CMS. The MD/DO residency merge will affect my med school class and I will discuss the pros/cons of each school below. If you go to either of the two schools, please let me know your opinion. Thanks for your help in advance!!

CCOM
Pros- 30 min from home (close to family + friends), one of the best DO schools in the nation, good rotation sites/residency match lists, exams are all taken in a Prometric Center to get familiar w/ Step 1 exam environment
Cons- not all classes have lecture recordings, old style curriculum w/ exams every week, letter grades

CMS
Pros- 1.5 hours from home (still pretty close), inter-professional focus/mission, good rotation sites/residency match lists, combined exams every 3 weeks, systems-based P/F curriculum
Cons- ppl I've talked with consider it a below avg MD school, campus not as nice as CCOM

I don't want to make this into an MD vs. DO debate, but ultimately, which school do you think would open more doors for me for my future career, whether it be in primary care or a specialty? Thanks again for your input!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

You know the drill... go to the MD school that is also cheaper. You have heard it time and time again. MD will give you an easier time with residency (no one can argue this). And more importantly CMS is cheaper. Those are the two most important factors relating to your medical education - what you get out of it (residency) and cost.

And this is coming from a future DO student.

 

[user3]

gulp...this thread will not have happy ending.

 

[cliquesh]

Cms

 

[doctorold]

You know the drill... go to the MD school that is also cheaper. You have heard it time and time again. MD will give you an easier time with residency (no one can argue this). And more importantly CMS is cheaper. Those are the two most important factors relating to your medical education - what you get out of it (residency) and cost.

And this is coming from a future DO student.

Cannot say it better than this. Do as he/she says

 

[birdboybird]

So it seems that everyone associated with SDN forums can never recommend DO institutions over MD schools unless there is some kind of extreme circumstance ( living with a dependent family member and can't move, way cheaper, yada yada....)

Is this observation accurate?

aka is this observation accurate MD>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>DO

EDIT: pretend money is not a factor

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Hi there! With the 12/14 deadline coming up, I need to make a decision about whether to submit a deposit to CCOM or CMS. The MD/DO residency merge will affect my med school class and I will discuss the pros/cons of each school below. If you go to either of the two schools, please let me know your opinion. Thanks for your help in advance!!

CCOM
Pros- 30 min from home (close to family + friends), one of the best DO schools in the nation, good rotation sites/residency match lists, exams are all taken in a Prometric Center to get familiar w/ Step 1 exam environment
Cons- not all classes have lecture recordings, old style curriculum w/ exams every week, letter grades

CMS
Pros- 1.5 hours from home (still pretty close), inter-professional focus/mission, good rotation sites/residency match lists, combined exams every 3 weeks, systems-based P/F curriculum
Cons- ppl I've talked with consider it a below avg MD school, campus not as nice as CCOM

I don't want to make this into an MD vs. DO debate, but ultimately, which school do you think would open more doors for me for my future career, whether it be in primary care or a specialty? Thanks again for your input!

Cross posting is against TOS @ShyRem @Bacchus

 

[orangeman25]

So it seems that everyone associated with SDN forums can never recommend DO institutions over MD schools unless there is some kind of extreme circumstance ( living with a dependent family member and can't move, way cheaper, yada yada....)

Is this observation accurate?

aka is this observation accurate MD>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>DO

EDIT: pretend money is not a factor

Yes. Worst MD school>>>>>>best DO school.

 

[DrEnderW]

See the recent Drexel vs PCOM thread that got moved to pre-Allo for further discussion. You're going to have great opportunities from both schools.

It's the same thing, minus the absolutely obscene price of CCOM.

 

[birdboybird]

What about Puerto Rico MD?

 

[Goro]

I'd send my kids to CCOM.

Hi there! With the 12/14 deadline coming up, I need to make a decision about whether to submit a deposit to CCOM or CMS. The MD/DO residency merge will affect my med school class and I will discuss the pros/cons of each school below. If you go to either of the two schools, please let me know your opinion. Thanks for your help in advance!!

CCOM
Pros- 30 min from home (close to family + friends), one of the best DO schools in the nation, good rotation sites/residency match lists, exams are all taken in a Prometric Center to get familiar w/ Step 1 exam environment
Cons- not all classes have lecture recordings, old style curriculum w/ exams every week, letter grades

CMS
Pros- 1.5 hours from home (still pretty close), inter-professional focus/mission, good rotation sites/residency match lists, combined exams every 3 weeks, systems-based P/F curriculum
Cons- ppl I've talked with consider it a below avg MD school, campus not as nice as CCOM

I don't want to make this into an MD vs. DO debate, but ultimately, which school do you think would open more doors for me for my future career, whether it be in primary care or a specialty? Thanks again for your input!

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

So it seems that everyone associated with SDN forums can never recommend DO institutions over MD schools unless there is some kind of extreme circumstance ( living with a dependent family member and can't move, way cheaper, yada yada....)

Is this observation accurate?

aka is this observation accurate MD>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>DO

EDIT: pretend money is not a factor

Yes. Worst MD school>>>>>>best DO school.

MD=DO they are equivalent degrees

I'd send my kids to CCOM.

That's the ultimate barometer of a medical school. Whether goro would send his kids there

 

[Mehd School]

Cross posting is against TOS @ShyRem @Bacchus

Seriously dude? Are you telling on OP?

Go to RF and don't look back.

 

[Roxas]

Another DO student here, go RFU. I will be proud to be a DO, and I take some issue with the statement that "worst MD >>>>>>>>> best DO." That being said, it will just save you some headaches (and money) to go MD.

Funny how this whole MD vs DO thing seemed so much more important as a pre-med, and how quickly it becomes irrelevant.

 

[Mehd School]

...I take some issue with the statement that "worst MD >>>>>>>>> best DO."

I don't. Not having to learn OMM would be a gift from the angels.

 

[Roxas]

I don't. Not having to learn OMM would be a gift from the angels.

That goes more with the "less headaches" I mentioned. That statement just makes it seem like you're not getting a decent education if it's not an MD school, which is false.

 

[Mehd School]

That goes more with the "less headaches" I mentioned. That statement just makes it seem like you're not getting a decent education if it's not an MD school, which is false.

I take it less as quality of education and more of possibilities of residencies.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Seriously dude? Are you telling on OP?

Go to RF and don't look back.

I had enough of these threads. So yes I am.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

I don't. Not having to learn OMM would be a gift from the angels.

I'm looking forward to OMM

 

[Mehd School]

I'm looking forward to OMM

Most of us did too.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Most of us did too.

I actually want to use OMM in practice and do a residency in it. So if you went into it thinking its just cool and don't want to use it I could see how you might get fed up with the time commitment. But I would like to to neuromuscular OMM residency then something else. So I might be different.

 

[notbobtrustme]

CMS sends more kids into competitive ACGME residencies than all DO schools combined.

MD > DO in every single instance and more so in this case because you are paying a premium for the DO degree.

 

[birdboybird]

CMS sends more kids into competitive ACGME residencies than all DO schools combined.
.

Break it down for me some more, im just a premed

My understanding " Rf has idk probbly 200 students, of those 100 go to competive residencies....thats more then the 20k DO students??? WTF ?"

 

[BestDoctorEver]

What about Puerto Rico MD?

I argue against that, but I was told since they are LCME accredited, they are better choice than DO... Besides, these people most likely will be bilingual, which is also a big plus... The worst PR schools have people match into ACGME ortho/neurosurgery... These ACGME specialties are almost impossible for DO to match into.

 

[67552931811]

.

 

[NontradCA]

Break it down for me some more, im just a premed

My understanding " Rf has idk probbly 200 students, of those 100 go to competive residencies....thats more then the 20k DO students??? WTF ?"

You'll deal with people like this...

 

[superdoc2.0]

M.D. will most likely result in higher quality rotation sites and better patient exposure. Not as big deal for an established D.O school like CCOM, but might still be a factor. Honestly, I would consider the cost of medical school one of the most important factors, all schools have to pass accreditation so a cheaper school is essentially a medical education "on sale".

Easiest way to answer this question is to ask yourself if you had to put a $5000 dollar deposit at each school in one hour, which one would get your 5k?

 

[IslandStyle808]

Hi there! With the 12/14 deadline coming up, I need to make a decision about whether to submit a deposit to CCOM or CMS. The MD/DO residency merge will affect my med school class and I will discuss the pros/cons of each school below. If you go to either of the two schools, please let me know your opinion. Thanks for your help in advance!!

CCOM
Pros- 30 min from home (close to family + friends), one of the best DO schools in the nation, good rotation sites/residency match lists, exams are all taken in a Prometric Center to get familiar w/ Step 1 exam environment
Cons- not all classes have lecture recordings, old style curriculum w/ exams every week, letter grades

CMS
Pros- 1.5 hours from home (still pretty close), inter-professional focus/mission, good rotation sites/residency match lists, combined exams every 3 weeks, systems-based P/F curriculum
Cons- ppl I've talked with consider it a below avg MD school, campus not as nice as CCOM

I don't want to make this into an MD vs. DO debate, but ultimately, which school do you think would open more doors for me for my future career, whether it be in primary care or a specialty? Thanks again for your input!

Rosalind

1) It's an MD school
2) It's an MD school
3) Most likely cheaper, even out of state
4) 3 week exams > weekly exams (CCOM is weekly if I remember right)

 

[notbobtrustme]

Break it down for me some more, im just a premed

My understanding " Rf has idk probbly 200 students, of those 100 go to competive residencies....thats more then the 20k DO students??? WTF ?"

We send numerous kids to ortho, neurosurg, derm, uro, ent, optho, rad-onc, high-end IM every year. Hell, 10 years ago, we were sending 10+ kids to radiology when radiology was hotter than Derm.

If a DO gets into any one of those, it's a major deal.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

So it seems that everyone associated with SDN forums can never recommend DO institutions over MD schools unless there is some kind of extreme circumstance ( living with a dependent family member and can't move, way cheaper, yada yada....)

Is this observation accurate?

aka is this observation accurate MD>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>DO

EDIT: pretend money is not a factor

Nah, I mean either route will get you where you need to go. But if you have the opportunity to simply go to a school with more resources and less resistance for matching residency AND it happens to be cheaper, I think its a no brainer.

There are certainly situations where I personally would take the DO over an MD, but again it really comes down to cost. If I got into a private MD school for 50K and a public DO school for 25K, I would take the DO and never look back. That kind of money is like half a payment for a house (after interest is factored in).

But if money is the same for a perspective DO or MD then one should choose MD simply because of the way the residency match is structured. Maybe one day there will be no bias against DOs, in which case one should absolutely just go with what is cheapest and where they are happy. But until that time its just about going to the path of least resistance... Its not necessarily that "oh DO sucks and MD rocks!" (as if there is just some inherent thing that is better or worse), its just the path of least resistance.

The reality is that many of us have no clue what specialty we want to be one day, and even if we think we know, 90% of us will change our minds, why not just go the route that has the most doors open.


***Edit, I just saw that you said to take out talk about costs haha...

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

Another DO student here, go RFU. I will be proud to be a DO, and I take some issue with the statement that "worst MD >>>>>>>>> best DO." That being said, it will just save you some headaches (and money) to go MD.

Funny how this whole MD vs DO thing seemed so much more important as a pre-med, and how quickly it becomes irrelevant.

Perfectly put

 

[Seth Joo]

You are better off being an MD. There are more opportunities for MDs than there are for DOs. That is life.

 

[NontradCA]

We send numerous kids to ortho, neurosurg, derm, uro, ent, optho, rad-onc, high-end IM every year. Hell, 10 years ago, we were sending 10+ kids to radiology when radiology was hotter than Derm.

If a DO gets into any one of those, it's a major deal.

Although DOs get into these programs every year, it's difficult and you just don't know if you'd be interested in these fields as a pre-med or during pre-clinical years. So it's better to pick the MD school if you're unsure..I would say, regardless of costs, unless you're wanting to go into something less competitive. Even then, you'd still be looking at having to deal with OMT, COMLEX. The thought of doing those fields, minus ent, sounds horrendous to me, but that may change overtime. So just listen to the advice here and go to RF.

 

[bitternsweetxo2]

Cross posting is against TOS @ShyRem @Bacchus

Sorry about that. I didn't know that was a rule and I wanted to hear from both sides.

 

[bitternsweetxo2]

Thank you all so much for your suggestions!! I appreciate it. Cost will actually not be a factor b/c I would be living at home if I go to Midwestern (the cost actually evens out).

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Sorry about that. I didn't know that was a rule and I wanted to hear from both sides.

It doesn't matter where you post both sides will tell you to go to Chicago med.

 

[Seth Joo]

CMS sends more kids into competitive ACGME residencies than all DO schools combined.

MD > DO in every single instance and more so in this case because you are paying a premium for the DO degree.

I would agree with this, there is still a stigma towards DOs and most DOs still go into primary care, not necessarily because they want to become primary care doctors.

 

[mommy2three]

Not that I am biased but I will say CCOM anyday over CMS
CMS had been on probation by ACGME at least twice in the last 10 years - that to me is a huge red flag. While they may have been minor issues and fixed, I know that personally that would give me pause.
Go where you think you will be happier and is a better fit for you - if you are miserable then your grades and performance will suffer

 

[ananasmed]

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned that CMS might have a higher quality of rotation sites; just wanted to note that CMS and CCOM share most of the same rotation sites so that's probably not a good decision making factor in this case (since CMS does not have its own hospital).

 

[superdoc2.0]

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned that CMS might have a higher quality of rotation sites; just wanted to note that CMS and CCOM share most of the same rotation sites so that's probably not a good decision making factor in this case (since CMS does not have its own hospital).

Thanks for the correction

 

[user3]

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned that CMS might have a higher quality of rotation sites; just wanted to note that CMS and CCOM share most of the same rotation sites so that's probably not a good decision making factor in this case (since CMS does not have its own hospital).

I would love to see a side by side review of CCOM and CMS. One is an established DO school, the other a "low tier" MD. I wonder how students' experiences compare at the two programs through the 4 years.

In a nutshell, this is why I would always strongly recommend the MD school:

You can low-pass (201+) your boards and still have a great chance for nearly any specialty except the surgeries and dermatology.

source: NRMP charting outcomes.

 

[notbobtrustme]

Not that I am biased but I will say CCOM anyday over CMS
CMS had been on probation by ACGME at least twice in the last 10 years - that to me is a huge red flag. While they may have been minor issues and fixed, I know that personally that would give me pause.
Go where you think you will be happier and is a better fit for you - if you are miserable then your grades and performance will suffer

That's not how probation works.

How many DOs went into ACGME uro, optho, derm, etc etc last year? We placed students into these competitive specialties in competitive locations and competitive programs. We put students into great IM programs that probably don't even look at DO applications (eg WashU, Mayo, UCLA, BIDMC). And this is the same year that we went on probation.

 

[mommy2three]

That's not how probation works.

How many DOs went into ACGME uro, optho, derm, etc etc last year? We placed students into these competitive specialties in competitive locations and competitive programs. We put students into great IM programs that probably don't even look at DO applications (eg WashU, Mayo, UCLA, BIDMC). And this is the same year that we went on probation.

I was on rotations with students from CMS the last probation period announcement. They were visibly freaked out and additionally stressed out by the possibility of not being able to graduate and having an uncertain future.
I have never said that going DO will open every conceivable door.
The question was asked - and for me personally, having the additional stress of worrying about whether I will be able to graduate when I am in the middle of what is one of the most stressful times of your life is not worth it
The OP should go wherever they feel more comfortable as that is the most important factor

 

[JimmyB123]

Are both CMS and CCOM about the same distance from the city?

 

[user3]

That's not how probation works.

How many DOs went into ACGME uro, optho, derm, etc etc last year? We placed students into these competitive specialties in competitive locations and competitive programs. We put students into great IM programs that probably don't even look at DO applications (eg WashU, Mayo, UCLA, BIDMC). And this is the same year that we went on probation.

Just goes to show that this notion of "low tier MD" bias is overblown.

 

[sazerac]

But has anybody looked at CCOM's match results? Their match list is solid.

 

[67552931811]

Are both CMS and CCOM about the same distance from the city?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Mapquest

 

[Stagg737]

That's not how probation works.

How many DOs went into ACGME uro, optho, derm, etc etc last year? We placed students into these competitive specialties in competitive locations and competitive programs. We put students into great IM programs that probably don't even look at DO applications (eg WashU, Mayo, UCLA, BIDMC). And this is the same year that we went on probation.

It's still probation though...and how were the placements in the years following the probation? Not trying to knock RF, I'm genuinely curious if there were any effects.

Also, our school (DO, not CCOM) placed people at Mayo, UChicago, Rush surgical, along with a few other notables recently. 60% of the non-milmed class placed into an ACGME residency. Last year we placed 4 people into Rad, 5 into ortho, 6 into path, uro, along with a bunch of surgery and internal meds that plan to specialize. I hate hearing the "Going DO will close this door" argument, because it's just not true.

That being said, certain specialties are more difficult to get into, but that's true for everyone. So unless you're top of your class and dominate the boards, you're not going to get into them regardless of the letters behind your name. Period. Would you have to work harder to land those specialties as a DO, if you want to go to an ACGME residency, yes. Ultimately, med school will be what you make of it. If you go to an MD school just because it's MD instead of going to a DO school where you will be better prepared, then you're making the wrong decision. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to chose RF over CCOM and vice versa, but the letters at the end of your name should not be one of them.

I chose a DO school over an MD school because it was a better fit for me, and I have no regrets about it (bring on the criticism).

 

[notbobtrustme]

It's still probation though...and how were the placements in the years following the probation? Not trying to knock RF, I'm genuinely curious if there were any effects.

Dunno, this year's class will be the 2nd class to graduate under probation. I doubt it'll have any effect. Back when we got placed on probation in 2003/2004, we were still sending 10+ kids into rads when rads was hotter than Derm.

Also, our school (DO, not CCOM) placed people at Mayo, UChicago, Rush surgical, along with a few other notables recently. 60% of the non-milmed class placed into an ACGME residency. Last year we placed 4 people into Rad, 5 into ortho, 6 into path, uro, along with a bunch of surgery and internal meds that plan to specialize. I hate hearing the "Going DO will close this door" argument, because it's just not true.

The difference being that you have to be a superstar to match at those places as a DO whereas you just need to be above average as an MD. And depending on the specialty, those matches may not even be all that impressive (eg PM&R at Mayo is not nearly as competitive as IM at Mayo). And are those the main, university programs or affliated community programs. Johns Hopkins Bayview is not in the same league as Osler but they both carry the JH name.

I was on rotations with students from CMS the last probation period announcement. They were visibly freaked out and additionally stressed out by the possibility of not being able to graduate and having an uncertain future.
I have never said that going DO will open every conceivable door.
The question was asked - and for me personally, having the additional stress of worrying about whether I will be able to graduate when I am in the middle of what is one of the most stressful times of your life is not worth it
The OP should go wherever they feel more comfortable as that is the most important factor

Ya, I was studying for boards when the decision came down. Stressed me out for an hour or so but then only one or two schools have lost accreditation so I wasn't worried. And the probation was because of locker space at rotation sites. Not because of anything related to the curriculum.

 

[LAtoDavis]

Futts Chicago Medical School gets my vote

http://www.bartonhealth.org/main/find-a-doctor/irwin-wes-70.aspx#