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Linkie?
It is through facebook. Just type in "Vetgirl" in the facebook search. I think it is the second or third article on that page. Read comments.
Linkie?
https://www.facebook.com/VetGirlOnTheRun/?fref=ts second post down.Linkie?
edit: oh, and I actually went to read the comments and there is an OSU student saying exactly my thoughts above. Hmm.
I only read the top comments so have no idea how professionally she is responding. I think VetGirl's post was not particularly professional - "#fail"? - to begin with and can understand some frustration from the student.We may never know if it was a miscommunication or not. Though you would think a group of veterinary students would be intelligent enough to ask for clarity on a take home test if something was not clear to them instead of just assuming they can do what they feel (at least this is how I am understanding things happened based on that student's post, but, again, we weren't there). That aside, that student is not responding or acting professionally and her continued responses in that thread, just further dug the hole she was already digging even deeper.
I only read the top comments so have no idea how professionally she is responding. I think VetGirl's post was not particularly professional - "#fail"? - to begin with and can understand some frustration from the student.
We had lots of collaborative quizzes and tests throughout the years. The instance I mentioned earlier was either in clin path or medicine (can't recall), but some big course with lots of sections taught by different profs. It was a situation where the last couple professors had been a-OK with quizzes as a group and then the new one wasn't, but never explicitly stated that. It wasn't a big deal when it came to light because they realized it was a genuine mistake, but we weren't intelligent enough to ask.
I absolutely think that if there were 85 people that explicitly disobeyed the rules that they should be punished. But I tend to give some really strong benefit of the doubt to future colleagues... I don't think I have 85 classmates who would cheat on purpose, so I don't feel like another vet school would, either. And I'd rather be proven wrong with that than to start out cynical.
There is giving the benefit of the doubt and then there is the fact that the school decided there was blame to be had and handed out punishment. I would hope that the school would not simply decide this without reason. I agree here that students should always ask about the allowance of collaboration in today's take home exam environment and never assume it to be the rule. I never liked it anyway because there are usually a couple people that do the work and others simply copy.
We have so many students in classes these days that I completely understand trying to take advantage of the digital age and make students lives somewhat less stressful by allowing take home and open book, but it certainly opens the door for those people with weaker standards.
I also pretty rarely did take home things collaboratively (when allowed) because I'm a big fan of my comfy couch and doing work at roughly 2am, which doesn't usually sit well with others.
Yeah, I didn't mean I don't like take home, I am saying when collaboration is allowed, it means there are going to be problems because there are people who are lazy and don't do the work. While cheating isn't necessarily the intention in it's strictest definition, it is still an issue that there are folks who take advantage of the situation and others. I strongly dislike this because I was on the receiving end usually of people wanting me to do the work and they ride my coat tails so to speak and it is the basis of my attitude towards this situation.I suppose, but I could still very much see a situation where the students were under a different impression than the professor, but since it still fell under an honor code violation there were punishments. It would be very saddening to me if 85 people in a class deliberately cheated. Literally over half of the class.
And eh, I personally quite like open book/take home exams because if they're written well, it is more thinking and analytical work vs. spewing information quickly stuffed in the brain for a test. Not many times as a vet that I won't be able to crack a book open and double check things, it's the application that is important. Same reason I like essays or projects more than straight examinations - I get better depth of knowledge and it usually actually sticks. Takes longer but is much more enjoyable than study study study regurgitate.
I also pretty rarely did take home things collaboratively (when allowed) because I'm a big fan of my comfy couch and doing work at roughly 2am, which doesn't usually sit well with others.
"Yeaaaah, I guess I could come over and do it with you guys... but I'd have to put a bra on... can I bring a couple beers?"In PJ's with snacks and drinks. You can't forget the snacks and drinks.
"Yeaaaah, I guess I could come over and do it with you guys... but I'd have to put a bra on... can I bring a couple beers?"
...I have never claimed to be a good student.
Yup. I am for sure a guilty party here as well! Beer and wine, ho!Since when does studying braless with some beers make a bad student??
If that is the case, I was a horrible student (minus the beers, I preferred lots of chocolate and soda).
I suppose, but I could still very much see a situation where the students were under a different impression than the professor, but since it still fell under an honor code violation there were punishments. It would be very saddening to me if 85 people in a class deliberately cheated. Literally over half of the class.
Yup. I am for sure a guilty party here as well! Beer and wine, ho!
Yeah, I didn't mean I don't like take home, I am saying when collaboration is allowed, it means there are going to be problems because there are people who are lazy and don't do the work. While cheating isn't necessarily the intention in it's strictest definition, it is still an issue that there are folks who take advantage of the situation and others. I strongly dislike this because I was on the receiving end usually of people wanting me to do the work and they ride my coat tails so to speak and it is the basis of my attitude towards this situation.
I haven't necessarily used the word cheating purposefully, but certainly weakness of character is at the front of my thoughts on this. I imagine out of the 85 there are some that are caught in the crossfire, but taking responsibility for actions is a must. Playing the miscommunication card doesn't work with me because it is always my policy to ask for clarification. I know in classes that have multiple professors and multiple ways of doing things is a recipe for this sort of thing, but I maintain that it is up to the student to keep on top the changes. It is part of growing up and is why I cringe at times for the younger students who haven't learned the life lessons yet. At least this group now has learned it the hard way and are likely to be more diligent in seeking understanding forgoing the assumptions.
You actually have no idea how many weirded out comments I've gotten when I say I regularly studied with a beer or two. There was a sort of spirit bond between myself and a couple of other classmates in my group who would drink-study, surrounded by so many more who took it much more seriously. (We won't compare class ranks between the two groups, though, ha).Since when does studying braless with some beers make a bad student??
If that is the case, I was a horrible student (minus the beers, I preferred lots of chocolate and soda).
I mean, my undergrad TRIED to be strict on cheating, though you could see it didn't work... And one thing that was echoed is if there was a take home test--in my experience it was usually essays provided as part of a larger exam we took in class--you were only to use your books, notes, and self. I never had any doubts about collaboration, because it was stated in the syllabi of several other classes that collaboration of any kind was a violation. I had other classes that was give us take home quizzes to prepare for the test and they would always explicitly tell us we could work together or not... Why you'd think that was okay with a large exam...??? Maybe that's the change that needs to be made.
Also, re: students reply. When practitioners are starting to say "please don't apply at my clinic" it's time to stop. I really don't think this is something any current students should be commenting on if they were involved or not. I've seen OSU students on this very forum anonymously say they weren't really allowed to say much, so why would you do it with your name attached in front of potential hiring vets?
Totally possible. Something like that is honestly probably what happened, just considering the number of people and what seems to be lenient sentencing (since I don't see 80 newly open seats, ha).I guess. But one of the things people point out is that that's a large percentage - but by no means all - of the class. So clearly <some> people understood the expectation. If there was confusion, my class always sought out clarification from the instructor. It sounds more like what happened might have been a whole lot of people deciding to take intentional advantage of some confusion. Sorta the whole "well, he didn't SAY we couldn't collaborate, so let's assume we can" kind of mentality.
I mean, the school handed out some disciplinary action. So clearly the school felt it went beyond "different impression"....
I agree with you - I like open book / take home exams. I enjoyed the chance to work on them with less pressure and a beer in my hand. And I felt it made sense to preserve lecture time for lectures.
I'm with @Trilt , honestly I could easily see this as a case of miscommunication. Mostly because this past spring semester our cardio prof came up to us a couple days before the exam and apologized because he knew it was going to be an online exam and thus assumed it would be open book, so he wrote more difficult questions operating under the assumption that we'd be able to go into our notes. The test wasn't open book however, and he found out late, so he essentially took the last class period before the exam to pretty much go over the exact topics he asked about on the test. So if the professors can get confused about open vs closed book, I can easily see that being translated into students being confused about it.
Granted I definitely don't know the specifics of this case, but half the class seems like far too many to be maliciously cheating...
Interestingly, Ohio's press release says they are trying to remedy it by simply making any take home collaborative. This is a little sad to me that it says their faith in students not to do cheat is so minimal that they are simply doing away with that option.
I think that the malicious part is where we all agree as to not being the case but have a difference of opinion whether it is an offense that is worthy of still thinking the students were in the wrong. I don't think they planned it out to cheat in the traditional sense of the word. However, I do think there was intent to take advantage of the situation by a large portion of the students and that they are to be held accountable for it. The school said they violated the school code of ethics, and with that it tells me the teacher/s administering the quizzes and/or exams did not intend them to be done in a collaborative effort. Like I said, maybe some were allowing it so there was an assumption all tests were the same, but it still falls on the student to get the clarification on that.
Interestingly, Ohio's press release says they are trying to remedy it by simply making any take home collaborative. This is a little sad to me that it says their faith in students not to do cheat is so minimal that they are simply doing away with that option.
I was helped run a focus group for my school for a particular class and one of our recommendations had to be don't tempt honest people unfortunately
Yeah sorry, I'm glad I had people editing the paper I just submitted because I think my brain is brokenI had to read that at least four times before I could make it make sense.
Guys, quick, give me a cool neuro topic to talk about. I can't even think of things to search for. Caveat: I need a peer reviewed paper to go with the topic.
I bet @LetItSnow studied with his bra on....
LIS burned his bras in the 60sNo way, man!
Watch it wiggle.... See it jiggle....
#LetItShow
#FreeTheBoobs2016
#MakeBoobsGreatAgain
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LIS burned his bras in the 60s
I am now unable to like this post. For two reasons... 1. Hashtags 2. The above statement
The hashtags and the above statement have made a great post, horrible.
Now I shall cry myself to sleep!
Thought maybe it was my abysmal whirly ball skills
Now I'm a little worried about next week...No way, DOCTOR Dvmd.
Watch it wiggle.... See it jiggle....
#LetItShow
#FreeTheBoobs2016
#MakeBoobsGreatAgain
Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
I'm not sure you could find a peer reviewed paper on this as I'm sure it super uncommon, but the other day in the neuro dept for my summer job, we did an MRI on a dog with severe hydrocephalus. The lateral ventricles were so full of CSF, there was just a thin outline of actual brain matter. Other than very poor vision and circling, the dog was fairly normal considering it practically didn't have a cerebrum. The cerebellum was also partially compressed by a cyst (I forget what it's called now though).Guys, quick, give me a cool neuro topic to talk about. I can't even think of things to search for. Caveat: I need a peer reviewed paper to go with the topic.