RANT HERE thread

[dovelover]

Got a C on a group project I'm pretty sure we deserved at least a mid B on (or a high B/low A as I think it would have been graded by most professors), and I'm kinda pissed. And yet not surprised, because that professor is unpredictable and kind of an a-hole sometimes... and it seems people in a lot of the other groups are a bit shocked by their grades too. I generally try not to complain about grades, because I generally think I get as good or often even better than I deserve based on how much I felt I had learned or how much effort I put into it. But it's not like we blew off this project--we put a lot of effort into it and included a lot of perfectly accurate information (it was checked over by a faculty "expert" before turning it in) and made it shiny and pretty and innovative to the best of our ability seeing as we weren't the ones actually putting our project into the software we were using and had limited control over that sort of stuff. I just don't know what else we could have done to make our project any better. So frustrated that it's just been one thing after another with this darn class... thank god this guy decided not to be our course coordinator for the second half of this course in the fall, because he's awful at it.

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[Trilt]

I spent three hours at my gym doing aerials and pole yesterday. It was fabulous (and included an awesome impromptu private pole session because the other student didn't show), but I am so freaking sore and bruised today. Just turning around in my chair hurts. Stairs hurt. Leaning over hurts.

Oooouuuuch haha. I just want to get home and soak in a bathtub forever.

 

[primatevetjess]

Soooo due to an enormous misunderstanding and super poor communication skills (not on my part), I just found out that I'm working my first relief shift as a solo doctor at Banfield tomorrow. :-o

I'm not at all mentally prepared, it's such late notice!! Also, I've worked the last 12 straight days and had a truly terrible week, I was really looking forward to a day off.

But mostly, I'm completely terrified. For those who don't know, I'm in a lab animal med residency, and have never worked solo or as a GP.

I'm kind of freaking out.

 

[StartingoverVet]

My laptop has died. It won't turn on with or without the battery....

I've taken such good care of it and it hasn't had anything spilled on it or been dropped or knocked around....

I mean, I've wanted a new one, but I had finally settled and have gotten control of my retail therapy tendencies.

Not cool.

sounds like the motherboard. About 200 bucks to get a new one.

 

[Escalla]

sounds like the motherboard. About 200 bucks to get a new one.

The sad thing is that I had the motherboard replaced under warranty once on that laptop already.....which is why I'm hesitant to repair again....

 

[Coquette22]

I swear E-Value was designed by aliens. Nothing about that site is intuitive.

 

[Kpowell14]

Soooo due to an enormous misunderstanding and super poor communication skills (not on my part), I just found out that I'm working my first relief shift as a solo doctor at Banfield tomorrow. :-o

I'm not at all mentally prepared, it's such late notice!! Also, I've worked the last 12 straight days and had a truly terrible week, I was really looking forward to a day off.

But mostly, I'm completely terrified. For those who don't know, I'm in a lab animal med residency, and have never worked solo or as a GP.

I'm kind of freaking out.

I really hope your day goes well. The Banfield hospitals I've been at Saturdays tend to be the busiest day. I was super surprised to see they through you in solo on a Saturday.. Did you get trained on Petware first?

 

[SV88]

GRRRRRRRRRRR. Car issues, hating my job, money issues. I Just am so ready to leave this city and start over. Unfortunately I cannot o that because of the car issues which may be pushing back my move by a few weeks. WHAT THE HECK MAN. GAH. And my computer still has a virus so I only use it for certain things to try to keep it truckin'.

 

[dovelover]

So I saw a contestant for the Miss USA pageant going through security at the airport. As you might imagine she was dressed absolutely ridiculously for you know, life, let alone getting on an airplane (which is a separate rant in and of itself), and held up the line taking all her bling off and getting her overly large cowboy hat to fit on the x-ray belt. But my real rant is the guy sitting at the x-ray machine who was unabashedly full out staring at her. It's okay to glance, dude, I mean, I did a double take looking at her too. But, seriously, I don't care how ridiculously skin tight barely butt covering outfit some hot girl is wearing, you shouldn't awkwardly stare, especially when it's your job to be screening the items that may be going on my airplane. It doesn't matter that she dresses like that on purpose or probably likes attention (I mean, duh, national beauty pageant contestant). It's rude, and it's creepy.

And oh yeah, why does she get to bypass the line at security? (Granted, the line was less than 5 minutes long...)

 

[primatevetjess]

I really hope your day goes well. The Banfield hospitals I've been at Saturdays tend to be the busiest day. I was super surprised to see they through you in solo on a Saturday.. Did you get trained on Petware first?

It was possibly the most stressful day of my life, and I worked 11 hours, but I survived! I'm not sure if it went "well," but it's nice to have my first shift out of the way.

They threw me in on a Saturday because I work Mon-Fri, so I'm only available to relief on the weekends. And yeah, I kind of got trained on PetWare, but not really. That was definitely a lot of the reason I was so behind all day.

 

[Minnerbelle]

It was possibly the most stressful day of my life, and I worked 11 hours, but I survived! I'm not sure if it went "well," but it's nice to have my first shift out of the way.

They threw me in on a Saturday because I work Mon-Fri, so I'm only available to relief on the weekends. And yeah, I kind of got trained on PetWare, but not really. That was definitely a lot of the reason I was so behind all day.

But you got through it! Are you going to do it again?

 

[orca2011]

It was possibly the most stressful day of my life, and I worked 11 hours, but I survived! I'm not sure if it went "well," but it's nice to have my first shift out of the way.

They threw me in on a Saturday because I work Mon-Fri, so I'm only available to relief on the weekends. And yeah, I kind of got trained on PetWare, but not really. That was definitely a lot of the reason I was so behind all day.

Don't worry. PetWare took me a while too when I started the Student Job Program there. You get the hang of it after a while.

 

[primatevetjess]

But you got through it! Are you going to do it again?

Yep, I already have 4 relief shifts lined up for next month at a nearby hospital.

 

[StartingoverVet]

It was possibly the most stressful day of my life, and I worked 11 hours, but I survived! I'm not sure if it went "well," but it's nice to have my first shift out of the way.

They threw me in on a Saturday because I work Mon-Fri, so I'm only available to relief on the weekends. And yeah, I kind of got trained on PetWare, but not really. That was definitely a lot of the reason I was so behind all day.

congrats! I knew you would be fine.

 

[Kpowell14]

It was possibly the most stressful day of my life, and I worked 11 hours, but I survived! I'm not sure if it went "well," but it's nice to have my first shift out of the way.

They threw me in on a Saturday because I work Mon-Fri, so I'm only available to relief on the weekends. And yeah, I kind of got trained on PetWare, but not really. That was definitely a lot of the reason I was so behind all day.

I can imagine! I think Petware is the most difficult thing about working there, but once you get it down and learn all the keyboard short cuts it will be so much easier. I really like it as a computer system compared to others I've used at different practices. Hopefully you had a good team to help you out along the way!!

 

[orca2011]

I can imagine! I think Petware is the most difficult thing about working there, but once you get it down and learn all the keyboard short cuts it will be so much easier. I really like it as a computer system compared to others I've used at different practices. Hopefully you had a good team to help you out along the way!!

I still don't know all the keyboard shortcuts. Goal for the summer right there.

 

[BlackDog17]

So we had a cookout at my house today, and some how when my bf and I offered to "help" we got handed all the food and left to grill everything ourselves. And holy crap, I had forgotten how unbelievably rude people in my family can be sometimes. When I ask you what kind of cheese you want on your burger, the correct answer is "American, please" NOT shouting at me "Medium rare! MEDIUM RARE! Make sure mine is medium rare! American cheese! Make sure you melt it! I want it medium rare!" And when I bring you the aforementioned medium rare burger, it is incredibly rude to exclaim "It's too small! Why are these burgers so small?! I need a hotdog too now!" And when I go to the trouble of cooking and bringing you a hot dog, the correct response is "thank you" NOT "you didn't burn it enough!"

And here I thought I would actually enjoy myself today. Silly me.

 

[Kpowell14]

I still don't know all the keyboard shortcuts. Goal for the summer right there.

I really hope I can remember the shortcuts when I start the SJP this summer. I worked for them 3+ yrs before starting school but it's amazing how much you forget after being out of practice for almost a year!

 

[jmo1012]

[QUOTE="Kpowell14, post: 15273737, member: 489551"]it's amazing how much you forget after being in vet school for any amount of time![/QUOTE]
fixed your statement

 

[orca2011]

I really hope I can remember the shortcuts when I start the SJP this summer. I worked for them 3+ yrs before starting school but it's amazing how much you forget after being out of practice for almost a year!

I'm currently just hoping I remember my log in information. Haha.

 

[primatevetjess]

There are shortcuts?!!

 

[that redhead]

There are shortcuts?!!

this made my day.

 

[Gr8teful]

Over heard a girl at the yoga studio tell another student that she is pre-med, and if she can't get into med school that vet school is her back up plan. I may have glanced at her with raised eyebrows before going back to what I was doing.

 

[WildZoo]

I work at a 3-vet practice, and one - who is the only one here who treats exotics and wildlife - is on an indefinite personal leave of absence as of yesterday. Nobody knows why. I'd already heard some sketchy things about his behavior. Not that he's a bad doctor, but that as a person he's unreliable and possibly an alcoholic. Now I'm kind of upset because one of the reasons I picked this place over the others I had the chance to work at was because of the exotics... So much for that.

 

[jmo1012]

...my mother just referred to me as one of her "two college kids home for the summer." um, NO. for starters, i've completed SEVEN years of higher education to date, four of which resulted in TWO BSc. degrees, the other THREE years being extremely rigorous professional school that is ending in a doctoral degree in a year. SEVEN YEARS of university work mom, not the measly two of undergrad course work my brother has finished so far. i'm also not home for the summer, just visiting for a couple of weeks before i move into clinics.

 

[NStarz]

Kind of bums me out how much I'm hearing that vet students are used as technicians during clinics. I know that learning skills is important, but honestly, why are the students doing all of the treatments on inpatients? I went to vet school to learn how to be a doctor, not how to walk a dog or administer eye drops. I did the tech thing before school. (Don't get me wrong--I think technicians are SUPER vital...just not my cup of tea.) I feel like our education would be more valuable if we were used more as student DOCTORS as opposed to free labor.

 

[jmo1012]

Kind of bums me out how much I'm hearing that vet students are used as technicians during clinics. I know that learning skills is important, but honestly, why are the students doing all of the treatments on inpatients? I went to vet school to learn how to be a doctor, not how to walk a dog or administer eye drops. I did the tech thing before school. (Don't get me wrong--I think technicians are SUPER vital...just not my cup of tea.) I feel like our education would be more valuable if we were used more as student DOCTORS as opposed to free labor.

really? maybe i'll feel differently in 2 weeks when i actually start clinics, but i'm excited to be doing stuff again. i'm glad to have treatments that i'm familiar with and good at doing to help bolster my self esteem because goodness knows i'm going to be deficient and stupid in the doctor side of things. after having my soul beaten out of me from spending so much time in the classroom, i think its very healthy and completely necessary to give students the responsibility of patient care from all aspects. its so easy to sit on the high horse and forget that each animal has a personality, a story, and a set of people whom it loves and who love it in return.

 

[dovelover]

Group project mates who put too much text on power point slides. This is a powerpoint, not a paper, nor does anyone need to study from this presentation for an exam. We will explain our ideas during the presentation. We just need to put down the key points. We should have paragraphs. I don't even want to see periods or complete sentences. Bullet points that take up less than one line would be ideal. When I slim their stuff down without asking first, they get offended. When I politely suggest everybody trims down their sections, they smile & nod and don't do it. I just don't get it? I am not a succinct person... so how is it that I always end up as the powerpoint word count police?

And now someone's going through and adding periods to the end of every bullet point on every slide. No. Just no. That's just aesthetically displeasing, if nothing else.


On a side note, some neighbor of mine is moving out of his apartment and is currently packing up his uhaul... at 10:30 at night.

 

[NStarz]

really? maybe i'll feel differently in 2 weeks when i actually start clinics, but i'm excited to be doing stuff again. i'm glad to have treatments that i'm familiar with and good at doing to help bolster my self esteem because goodness knows i'm going to be deficient and stupid in the doctor side of things. after having my soul beaten out of me from spending so much time in the classroom, i think its very healthy and completely necessary to give students the responsibility of patient care from all aspects. its so easy to sit on the high horse and forget that each animal has a personality, a story, and a set of people whom it loves and who love it in return.

Hmm. Maybe we'll agree to disagree, then. I think if 50% of students are feeling the need to go on to internships post-grad, there is a deficiency in the way clinics are being run. I think patient care is absolutely necessary, too. But as a doctor coming out of school, I think it's more important that I learn how to diagnose and treat a DKA patient than it is to give a dog its pill in a pill pocket. Like you said, you're going to feel deficient and stupid doing doctor stuff--all the more reason to get more practice doing it, IMO. And I don't need to give a dog a pill to be able to take care of it. Learning to SOAP it when it needs to be SOAPed, how to take a good history and do a thorough PE, how to effectively communicate my compassion towards the patient and her owner, and how to guide them to a care plan is more important (IMHO). Those are the things I will be doing once I leave vet school.

 

[jmo1012]

Hmm. Maybe we'll agree to disagree, then. I think if 50% of students are feeling the need to go on to internships post-grad, there is a deficiency in the way clinics are being run. I think patient care is absolutely necessary, too. But as a doctor coming out of school, I think it's more important that I learn how to diagnose and treat a DKA patient than it is to give a dog its pill in a pill pocket. Like you said, you're going to feel deficient and stupid doing doctor stuff--all the more reason to get more practice doing it, IMO. And I don't need to give a dog a pill to be able to take care of it. Learning to SOAP it when it needs to be SOAPed, how to take a good history and do a thorough PE, how to effectively communicate my compassion towards the patient and her owner, and how to guide them to a care plan is more important (IMHO). Those are the things I will be doing once I leave vet school.

in all of the clinics based activities we did at SGU (we spent all of 6th term on mini-rotations), we were responsible for all of that - the thorough PE, the paperwork (every last dang piece!), the history, communicating with clients/staff/attendings/each other, discharges, etc. on top of patient care. perhaps it is not the same at OSU? might be where our differing views come from. that said, i would always much rather be very thoroughly involved in a single whole case than have my fingers attached to several half way. i learn so much better when i am part of the whole process. that DKA needs extensive medical care on top of the medical case attached to it - being part of giving the drugs (when they're oral, thats exactly what the client is going through), attaching those medical values to the patient sitting in front of me (maybe their physical appearance doesn't match the test results, do you still want to treat then? depends greatly on what those are), and not being a textbook doctor when it comes to treating my patients. how can i expect to really communicate effectively with a client if my interaction with their beloved pet comes down to performing procedures and doing my shift exam? patients change so much in status over the course of time, whether that's days or hours or even minutes.

as for the internships bit, i'm sure there is room for academia to improve. however, i think that as we watch the stats of grads feeling pressured to do internships rise, we need to also remember that veterinary medicine has evolved leaps and bounds in the recent past. perhaps some of those feelings of inadequacy are because students are being expected to know and keep up with more and more every year, and as humans, we really do have a finite learning capacity over a certain length of time as our brain tries to chemically and physically remodel to keep up. i am super pro-internship post graduation though, so i will always have colored glasses in this conversation. having watched doctors grow in confidence, experience, and ability over the course of an internship as well as my intense desire to specialize has me very much on the internship bandwagon. i get it, it's not a path for everyone, but i'm not sure its reasonable to expect nearly every person to graduate from such a rigorous field of study feeling ready to take on the world. we certainly don't let our human medical doctor counterparts do that, and the thought of letting them off unsupervised after graduation (and most of their programs are 2+2 even) is simply unimaginably terrifying to me.

 

[Minnerbelle]

I think how much tech work you do is another thing that's very institution dependent (affected both by caseload/class size ratio and philosophy).

 

[DVMDream]

in all of the clinics based activities we did at SGU (we spent all of 6th term on mini-rotations), we were responsible for all of that - the thorough PE, the paperwork (every last dang piece!), the history, communicating with clients/staff/attendings/each other, discharges, etc. on top of patient care. perhaps it is not the same at OSU? might be where our differing views come from. that said, i would always much rather be very thoroughly involved in a single whole case than have my fingers attached to several half way. i learn so much better when i am part of the whole process. that DKA needs extensive medical care on top of the medical case attached to it - being part of giving the drugs (when they're oral, thats exactly what the client is going through), attaching those medical values to the patient sitting in front of me (maybe their physical appearance doesn't match the test results, do you still want to treat then? depends greatly on what those are), and not being a textbook doctor when it comes to treating my patients. how can i expect to really communicate effectively with a client if my interaction with their beloved pet comes down to performing procedures and doing my shift exam? patients change so much in status over the course of time, whether that's days or hours or even minutes.

I think you might be missing what NStarz is saying. It isn't so much the "tech" work that is annoying, I doubt anyone here really minds doing that, but being involved with the whole case, as you said is important. If all you are told in clinics is... "here give the DKA dog this injection" then you aren't learning anything. If you are told here is this dog... do a PE, come up with a ddx, tests you want to run, treatment plan, etc, etc. then having to go give the injection as part of your treatment plan is not that big of a deal, but when you are stuck on the sidelines being treated like a tech and not being allowed to do the exam, ddx, etc, etc... it is frustrating and not really teaching you anything.

There is a difference between being treated like a tech while in clinics and being treated like a soon to be doctor and expected to still do some tech work. I think you are missing the difference here. If I am able to come up with the tests, diagnostics, etc and then I also have to set the catheter, draw up meds, etc, etc... no big deal. But if all I am told is "draw up x mls of this, set a catheter and do this" I am going to be a little annoyed if that is all that they will allow you to do on clinics. We are in training to be doctors and while some tech skills are necessary, the more important thing is to know how to diagnose, do PE's, what tests to order, how to talk to a client, etc.

 

[dyachei]

I think you might be missing what NStarz is saying. It isn't so much the "tech" work that is annoying, I doubt anyone here really minds doing that, but being involved with the whole case, as you said is important. If all you are told in clinics is... "here give the DKA dog this injection" then you aren't learning anything. If you are told here is this dog... do a PE, come up with a ddx, tests you want to run, treatment plan, etc, etc. then having to go give the injection as part of your treatment plan is not that big of a deal, but when you are stuck on the sidelines being treated like a tech and not being allowed to do the exam, ddx, etc, etc... it is frustrating and not really teaching you anything.

There is a difference between being treated like a tech while in clinics and being treated like a soon to be doctor and expected to still do some tech work. I think you are missing the difference here. If I am able to come up with the tests, diagnostics, etc and then I also have to set the catheter, draw up meds, etc, etc... no big deal. But if all I am told is "draw up x mls of this, set a catheter and do this" I am going to be a little annoyed if that is all that they will allow you to do on clinics. We are in training to be doctors and while some tech skills are necessary, the more important thing is to know how to diagnose, do PE's, what tests to order, how to talk to a client, etc.

It's much more common that it's part of your tx plan. But sometimes you have ICU duty. Honestly, it didn't big me at all. Everything is what you make of it. Why did they give x mls of that med? What do you do in an emergency as a tech? You have to be able to teach your techs, too

 

[DVMDream]

It's much more common that it's part of your tx plan. But sometimes you have ICU duty. Honestly, it didn't big me at all. Everything is what you make of it. Why did they give x mls of that med? What do you do in an emergency as a tech? You have to be able to teach your techs, too

This is true. Honestly, it wouldn't bother me to have to do some tech work. I do kind of enjoy it. But, if all the school allows you to do is tech work, then you don't learn anything about being a vet. I have heard of some rotations where they won't allow you to do anything but observe, not even tech work. Yes, you can make things out of it, but you would get much more from it if you could actually do what you are intended to do when you graduate. I would imagine if you spent the year you have in clinics doing only tech work, you probably won't come out as strong of a vet as those who were allowed to do vet work. Although, I highly doubt any vet school is like that.

 

[Minnerbelle]

It's much more common that it's part of your tx plan. But sometimes you have ICU duty. Honestly, it didn't big me at all. Everything is what you make of it. Why did they give x mls of that med? What do you do in an emergency as a tech? You have to be able to teach your techs, too

+1

Hmm. Maybe we'll agree to disagree, then. I think if 50% of students are feeling the need to go on to internships post-grad, there is a deficiency in the way clinics are being run. I think patient care is absolutely necessary, too. But as a doctor coming out of school, I think it's more important that I learn how to diagnose and treat a DKA patient than it is to give a dog its pill in a pill pocket. Like you said, you're going to feel deficient and stupid doing doctor stuff--all the more reason to get more practice doing it, IMO. And I don't need to give a dog a pill to be able to take care of it. Learning to SOAP it when it needs to be SOAPed, how to take a good history and do a thorough PE, how to effectively communicate my compassion towards the patient and her owner, and how to guide them to a care plan is more important (IMHO). Those are the things I will be doing once I leave vet school.

I wouldn't worry too much about it until you're in clinics NStarz. Sometimes during clinics students just get their soul sucked and b**** and b**** about certain things, and a lot of things get blown out of proportion. If you want to learn how to diagnose and treat a DKA patient, you will. Don't worry. You may or may not have one to manage on your own just due to unpredictability of caseload, but I promise you that if you want to learn, you can and you will. People who don't learn these things usually didn't take the initiative to learn the things they "wanted" to learn. No matter what you do during your clinical year (100% doctor work let's say), the number of cases you see won't change, so you are likely not going to get to manage every disease that you've wanted to. So it's up to you to go out there and learn yourself. Hell, not all interns in a busy hospital get to manage an Addisonian crisis. What you need to do in clinics/internship is learn to find out how you'll be able to manage a case that you've never encountered before. That's probably more important than each individual disease (aside from really common problems).

I doubt that OSU students don't SOAP or take history or do PE or communicate with the clients because they're too busy doing tech work. You'll learn to do all of that, and I'd be surprised if you don't do it for all of your patients. And plus, doing some treatment shifts and ICU/anesthesia tech work is super important, not so much for learning how to walk a dog or giving oral meds. But you get a better sense of what routes of administration are okay for what meds. Which IV meds can be mixed with other IV meds. Which meds need slow infusions. How each drug is reconstituted (water, saline, water with dextrose). Which ones sting, which ones don't. All those things that don't burn into your memory just by writing treatment orders. Good techs in a teaching hospital already know all these things so you just write drug name, dose, route of admin, and frequency and voila it gets done. But once you're out, you may be the one who needs to teach the techs these things. In a teaching hospital, you'll probably also be using a lot of drugs that you haven't seen before in other practices. If you already know all of these things from being an assistant, good for you. But you have to remember that people in your class come from different backgrounds and it's the school's responsibility to make sure everyone learns. And you'll be surprised at what you never knew from your previous jobs.

Maybe you do have to do an annoying amount of tech stuff, but like dyachei said, it's what you make of it. If you're doing random treatment shifts on patients that aren't yours, you can learn a ton just by looking at the therapies they're on and make sure you understand why, and also look at the dosages for every drug for every patient. Some dosages are standard, but others are really variable and it helps tremendously if you can get a sense of what types of doses are picked for certain conditions. Antibiotic choices are always interesting to find out.

I can tell you that during clinics, I've never given an insulin injection (though I have evaluated and managed diabetic patients). I had many a inpatients on insulin but came in for a different problem. I know how, and I'm not worried about it, but I did wonder a few times if that was okay. I feel like a doctor should graduate having given an insulin injection sometime during their education. Without the school forcing it on students, I wonder if there might be a dangerous lack of technical skills for someone who had barely any tech experience prior to school, and never fought to get it themselves throughout school.

 

[Trilt]

Stomach bug. The warm rice bag and I are becoming best buddies.

 

[98cats]

Group project mates who put too much text on power point slides. This is a powerpoint, not a paper, nor does anyone need to study from this presentation for an exam. We will explain our ideas during the presentation. We just need to put down the key points. We should have paragraphs. I don't even want to see periods or complete sentences. Bullet points that take up less than one line would be ideal. When I slim their stuff down without asking first, they get offended. When I politely suggest everybody trims down their sections, they smile & nod and don't do it. I just don't get it? I am not a succinct person... so how is it that I always end up as the powerpoint word count police?

And now someone's going through and adding periods to the end of every bullet point on every slide. No. Just no. That's just aesthetically displeasing, if nothing else.


On a side note, some neighbor of mine is moving out of his apartment and is currently packing up his uhaul... at 10:30 at night.

Ugh. I have the exact same issues with people making PowerPoints. And nobody ever listens to me and gets offended when I trim up their sections.

 

[jmo1012]

I think you might be missing what NStarz is saying. It isn't so much the "tech" work that is annoying, I doubt anyone here really minds doing that, but being involved with the whole case, as you said is important. If all you are told in clinics is... "here give the DKA dog this injection" then you aren't learning anything. If you are told here is this dog... do a PE, come up with a ddx, tests you want to run, treatment plan, etc, etc. then having to go give the injection as part of your treatment plan is not that big of a deal, but when you are stuck on the sidelines being treated like a tech and not being allowed to do the exam, ddx, etc, etc... it is frustrating and not really teaching you anything.

There is a difference between being treated like a tech while in clinics and being treated like a soon to be doctor and expected to still do some tech work. I think you are missing the difference here. If I am able to come up with the tests, diagnostics, etc and then I also have to set the catheter, draw up meds, etc, etc... no big deal. But if all I am told is "draw up x mls of this, set a catheter and do this" I am going to be a little annoyed if that is all that they will allow you to do on clinics. We are in training to be doctors and while some tech skills are necessary, the more important thing is to know how to diagnose, do PE's, what tests to order, how to talk to a client, etc.

i've reread both posts multiple times and yes, i simply must not be reading between the lines here because both posts from my interpretation are just complaints about being expected to handle the less glamorous parts of patient care. and that's a fine complaint to make, i just don't necessarily think its completely fair. good thing we are all entitled to opinions!

i think like the other people with 4th year experience stated, it will be what you make of it. if you're told give x mls of y drug and you dont know why, ask, or better yet go look up the drug and try to connect it to the disease process before asking. gosh i dont even know how many times we've been told that in the last 3 years by professors and clinicians! my experience with our mini rotations was that we were often told to figure out our own protocols that would then be discussed and approved. if not and we were told to give something, we were expected to either know why because we learned it in class, to ask if we weren't sure, or to look it up ourselves and be proactive about our learning process.

 

[DVMDream]

i've reread both posts multiple times and yes, i simply must not be reading between the lines here because both posts from my interpretation are just complaints about being expected to handle the less glamorous parts of patient care. and that's a fine complaint to make, i just don't necessarily think its completely fair. good thing we are all entitled to opinions!

i think like the other people with 4th year experience stated, it will be what you make of it. if you're told give x mls of y drug and you dont know why, ask, or better yet go look up the drug and try to connect it to the disease process before asking. gosh i dont even know how many times we've been told that in the last 3 years by professors and clinicians! my experience with our mini rotations was that we were often told to figure out our own protocols that would then be discussed and approved. if not and we were told to give something, we were expected to either know why because we learned it in class, to ask if we weren't sure, or to look it up ourselves and be proactive about our learning process.

I don't disagree with you at all. Clinics are going to be what you make of it. But, I do not think anyone here would be complaining about tech duties as long as they are also getting the vet experience along with it even if they were not getting that vet experience with every patient. It is just a bit disheartening to hear in 2nd year from final years some of the limited things they are allowed to do. It is discouraging when you hear a final year say that all they were able to do was observe and read information from text books... obviously you can still learn that way, but clinics are supposed to be about getting to do some things hands on (obviously there is no way you can do everything).

I also completely understand that one person's perspective of their clinical experience is not going to be the same as another person's, so I try to keep an open mind. But it does become very discouraging for us, as second years, who have not been in clinics yet to hear multiple people say their experience of clinics is that of either being a tech non-stop or a glorified shadow, even if that is only partially true (which is most likely). I completely understand that even if you are doing tech duties you can still learn, blah, blah, blah... yes, I get it; I did a lot of that on my preceptorship recently. But to a second year who only has word of mouth to go off of as to what clinics will be like, it becomes discouraging and frustrating when the final years talk about their experiences, especially when they are mostly negative. Hopefully that is something we can all understand.

 

[Beagleholly]

Why hasn't VMSAR been released yet??

 

[Coquette22]

in all of the clinics based activities we did at SGU (we spent all of 6th term on mini-rotations), we were responsible for all of that - the thorough PE, the paperwork (every last dang piece!), the history, communicating with clients/staff/attendings/each other, discharges, etc. on top of patient care.

This is my experience so far. We call clients, we takes histories, we do exams, we present our cases in rounds, and yes, we do treatments right down to walking patients. But before we start treatments, we have to come up with a plan. What drug do you want to use? How much? How often? What other tests do you want and why? They don't just tell us "Start Fido on x mls of drug y three times a day". They want us to figure out a treatment plan and run it past them.

 

[Jamr0ckin]

Kind of bums me out how much I'm hearing that vet students are used as technicians during clinics. I know that learning skills is important, but honestly, why are the students doing all of the treatments on inpatients? I went to vet school to learn how to be a doctor, not how to walk a dog or administer eye drops. I did the tech thing before school. (Don't get me wrong--I think technicians are SUPER vital...just not my cup of tea.) I feel like our education would be more valuable if we were used more as student DOCTORS as opposed to free labor.

Think its a way to get cheap labor as well. I won't mind doing the treatments on my own patients, but 4th year students here are also responsible for giving evening meds and walks for boarding dogs that have meds. I think that is silly when there are licensed techs, tech students, and vet assistants wandering the halls.

 

[NStarz]

I guess my frustration arises from the fact that "patient care" takes precedence over learning doctor things. I would rather get the opportunity to see a third case in one day than have to run around walking dogs. I don't mind doing patient care--NOT AT ALL. From a 4th year student in clinics at my school: "heard ____ surgery was an opportunity to groom/clip/clean and watch surgery from a monitor." Yes, I understand clients are paying lots of money so the board-certified surgeon can do the surgery on their animal...but not even have the opportunity to *SEE* the surgery? Or hold a retractor? Basically, we are being treated as scut monkeys...and I want more from my education (that I am paying quite a hefty penny for).

It's interesting that it seems to be accepted that vet students are trained as techs first and doctors second in the hospital during clinics...AFAIK, human medical students don't run around parading as nurses during their rotations (and they get the added benefit of needing to do a residency to become competent...we have to learn everything we need to in one year). But, these are just my opinions, and I don't mean to offend anyone if they differ from your own.

 

[dyachei]

I guess my frustration arises from the fact that "patient care" takes precedence over learning doctor things. I would rather get the opportunity to see a third case in one day than have to run around walking dogs. I don't mind doing patient care--NOT AT ALL. From a 4th year student in clinics at my school: "heard ____ surgery was an opportunity to groom/clip/clean and watch surgery from a monitor." Yes, I understand clients are paying lots of money so the board-certified surgeon can do the surgery on their animal...but not even have the opportunity to *SEE* the surgery? Or hold a retractor? Basically, we are being treated as scut monkeys...and I want more from my education (that I am paying quite a hefty penny for).

It's interesting that it seems to be accepted that vet students are trained as techs first and doctors second in the hospital during clinics...AFAIK, human medical students don't run around parading as nurses during their rotations (and they get the added benefit of needing to do a residency to become competent...we have to learn everything we need to in one year). But, these are just my opinions, and I don't mean to offend anyone if they differ from your own.

they actually mostly observe/get histories in their 4th year...

 

[NStarz]

they actually mostly observe/get histories in their 4th year...

That makes sense. But they have another 3-7 years of training--we are expected to come out of the gate being fully-functioning vets.

 

[dyachei]

That makes sense. But they have another 3-7 years of training--we are expected to come out of the gate being fully-functioning vets.

I would wait to see when you are ACTUALLY in clinics to make judgements on it. A lot of people overstate when they complain. I didn't have that problem at UTK, but I heard other people complain about it

 

[NStarz]

I would wait to see when you are ACTUALLY in clinics to make judgements on it. A lot of people overstate when they complain. I didn't have that problem at UTK, but I heard other people complain about it

Absolutely. Right now, I'm just going off of hearsay. But it seems to be a common theme (and not just at OSU). And it's a little disappointing.

 

[KCgophervet]

Got a C on a group project I'm pretty sure we deserved at least a mid B on (or a high B/low A as I think it would have been graded by most professors), and I'm kinda pissed.

You and me both sister. That was ridiculous.

So frustrated that it's just been one thing after another with this darn class... thank god this guy decided not to be our course coordinator for the second half of this course in the fall, because he's awful at it.

REALLY?? You just made my day! How did I not know this??

Also - 100% agree about the Powerpoint thing

 

[jmo1012]

Absolutely. Right now, I'm just going off of hearsay. But it seems to be a common theme (and not just at OSU). And it's a little disappointing.

i know dozens of people at different schools either currently in or just finished 4th year and i very rarely hear anyone complain about that sort of stuff, and when it does pop up, its usually after a very long and very tough rotation or day. i am constantly hearing about all the amazing opportunities and cases people have worked on in clinics and how much they feel they are learning, how this is the dream, yada yada, so try not to be too discouraged by the negativity

 

[Minnerbelle]

I guess my frustration arises from the fact that "patient care" takes precedence over learning doctor things. I would rather get the opportunity to see a third case in one day than have to run around walking dogs.

If that's the case at OSU then you picked the wrong school. But I kind of doubt that you don't get to see extra cases because you need to walk dogs. At least in my experience, every case that walked in was assigned to a student. That student got to take a stab at the "doctor things" as you call it for every case they got. It was never like I couldn't take another case because I was stuck doing scut work. If I was too busy doing a ton of crap, and another appointment came in, I was allowed to delegate leftover tasks to techs or interns/residents (since they're waiting for me to go and get history, do the initial PE, and come up with a tentative assessment and plan, and they are just as responsible for the same cases that I was previously working. Actually, at the end of the day, the house officers are fully responsible).

From a 4th year student in clinics at my school: "heard ____ surgery was an opportunity to groom/clip/clean and watch surgery from a monitor." Yes, I understand clients are paying lots of money so the board-certified surgeon can do the surgery on their animal...but not even have the opportunity to *SEE* the surgery? Or hold a retractor? Basically, we are being treated as scut monkeys...and I want more from my education (that I am paying quite a hefty penny for).

I scrubbed into pretty much every surgery/procedure that my assigned patients were undergoing. If it was a big abdominal/thoracic surgery with a big enough incision, I scrubbed into some of my rotation mate's cases. Only exceptions to that was in ophtho surgeries where the attending and resident were scrubbed in. In those cases, there's just not enough room, and we actually do have much better visualization on a monitor as students (for procedures that we would never do anyway...). I actually wished I could have been excused from a lot of the specialist only procedures because those were things I never would do anyway, and I had a ton of other things I could be doing with my time rather than standing there retracting/suctioning/pushing the cautery button/irrigating.

It's interesting that it seems to be accepted that vet students are trained as techs first and doctors second in the hospital during clinics...

Not sure I agree with that. It was definitely not the case in my experience.