RANT HERE thread

[Filly Bay]

My pets always seem to find ways to injure themselves or get sick in ways that pertain to the classes I'm currently taking. This time my GSD gets to come to school with me in the morning...

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[orca2011]

My pets always seem to find ways to injure themselves or get sick in ways that pertain to the classes I'm currently taking. This time my GSD gets to come to school with me in the morning...

This was like my biggest fear when I was on ES since I was working some long hours some days and he sometimes like to take it out on me by chewing something up. I was worried I'd be coming right back in for a foreign body or xylitol toxicity or something.

Hope your pup feels better soon.

 

[jmo1012]

Today was a particularly hard day. Bad case, exhausting client, lots of paperwork, lots of sufferi,g on behalf of a patient. We had 3 MRIs to do tonight as well, and didn't get back until about 9. None of my paperwork got done today, because the obnoxious and lazy technician refused to do her job, and lied about doing other things so I had to spend lots of time correcting her mistakes. 6 records hanging over my head tomorrow now. Sigh.

Also, while we were scanning patients tonight, I self diagnosed otitis media with effusion in my left ear. I can feel and hear fluid sloshing around in there, but unlike when it's in the external canal and you shake your head and fixed, this is persistent and mildly uncomfortable. I want to stick a needle in it! Except I can't

 

[pinkpuppy9]

Ugh. So last week on my rotation, I got nipped by a dog. Not a huge deal, but my finger got very swollen and painful. Just to be sure, I went to urgent care. Just got sent home with antibiotics and an NSAID. Repeatedly made it clear I wasn't concerned about vaccine history and that it wasn't an aggression bite (we were intubating and I actually almost fell over and lost my grip and the dog just closed its mouth).

I just got a call from animal control letting me know that the officer is trying to get a hold of the now dead dog's owners to see if they can provide the body for testing. These poor people have been through enough. I understand the reasoning behind it, but still. The attending physician also told me that if I went to the doctor, the dog wouldn't need to be sent out. I feel terrible The officer said it was a state law, but now I just wish I would have made up some story about how it happened.

 

[orca2011]

Ugh. So last week on my rotation, I got nipped by a dog. Not a huge deal, but my finger got very swollen and painful. Just to be sure, I went to urgent care. Just got sent home with antibiotics and an NSAID. Repeatedly made it clear I wasn't concerned about vaccine history and that it wasn't an aggression bite (we were intubating and I actually almost fell over and lost my grip and the dog just closed its mouth).

I just got a call from animal control letting me know that the officer is trying to get a hold of the now dead dog's owners to see if they can provide the body for testing. These poor people have been through enough. I understand the reasoning behind it, but still. The attending physician also told me that if I went to the doctor, the dog wouldn't need to be sent out. I feel terrible The officer said it was a state law, but now I just wish I would have made up some story about how it happened.

How would you going to the doctor change whether or not the dog has to be sent out for testing, especially since you didn't get any post-exposure rabies vaccines? Actually curious, because I don't think it matters in PA and wasn't aware that that actually made a different anywhere in the country. And as much as it sucks for everyone involved, at least around here I'm not going to take the chance of rabies exposure and would want to know if I need the vaccines or not.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

How would you going to the doctor change whether or not the dog has to be sent out for testing, especially since you didn't get any post-exposure rabies vaccines? Actually curious, because I don't think it matters in PA and wasn't aware that that actually made a different anywhere in the country. And as much as it sucks for everyone involved, at least around here I'm not going to take the chance of rabies exposure and would want to know if I need the vaccines or not.

Well because that's what the attending told me. I told her I didn't want to deal with the dog being sent out and she said it wouldn't be sent. The dog barely broke my skin, he just got me right on my joint so it hurt pretty badly and got very swollen. I'm also worried about the school now. The physician told me not to worry about reporting it unless I wanted my medical expenses covered, and now animal control is calling to school. I just feel bad. The dog didn't even come to the teaching hospital for an emergency, things just went downhill in the waiting room. Should I have gotten post-exposure anyways?

 

[hazelmoo]

Ugh. So last week on my rotation, I got nipped by a dog. Not a huge deal, but my finger got very swollen and painful. Just to be sure, I went to urgent care. Just got sent home with antibiotics and an NSAID. Repeatedly made it clear I wasn't concerned about vaccine history and that it wasn't an aggression bite (we were intubating and I actually almost fell over and lost my grip and the dog just closed its mouth).

I just got a call from animal control letting me know that the officer is trying to get a hold of the now dead dog's owners to see if they can provide the body for testing. These poor people have been through enough. I understand the reasoning behind it, but still. The attending physician also told me that if I went to the doctor, the dog wouldn't need to be sent out. I feel terrible The officer said it was a state law, but now I just wish I would have made up some story about how it happened.

That is awful. We have had some issues like that at my clinic. Techs have gotten bitten and went to the doctor for antibiotics, and animal control shows up wondering how to contact owners for rabies quarantine. EVEN when the dog is fully vaccinated and has never been exposed to an wild animals. A lot of the time, the owners can't afford the 10 day quarantine and it becomes a huge s*** show. It's like, what is even the point of the rabies vaccine being required by law if you still have to do a mandatory quarantine if the dog bites someone? We have lost clients over this before I'm sorry you have to deal with that!

 

[pinkpuppy9]

That is awful. We have had some issues like that at my clinic. Techs have gotten bitten and went to the doctor for antibiotics, and animal control shows up wondering how to contact owners for rabies quarantine. EVEN when the dog is fully vaccinated and has never been exposed to an wild animals. A lot of the time, the owners can't afford the 10 day quarantine and it becomes a huge s*** show. It's like, what is even the point of the rabies vaccine being required by law if you still have to do a mandatory quarantine if the dog bites someone? We have lost clients over this before I'm sorry you have to deal with that!

I mean the dog is long dead and likely in the ground at this point. Even the animal control officer said the brain would be untestable at this point, so I'm not sure why he's trying to contact them. I know that vaccines are never 100% (I think that's why they pursue testing/quarantine).

 

[orca2011]

That is awful. We have had some issues like that at my clinic. Techs have gotten bitten and went to the doctor for antibiotics, and animal control shows up wondering how to contact owners for rabies quarantine. EVEN when the dog is fully vaccinated and has never been exposed to an wild animals. A lot of the time, the owners can't afford the 10 day quarantine and it becomes a huge s*** show. It's like, what is even the point of the rabies vaccine being required by law if you still have to do a mandatory quarantine if the dog bites someone? We have lost clients over this before I'm sorry you have to deal with that!

Can they not do the 10 day quarantine in their house? In PA, that's an option if they're UTD and not suspected of having rabies. The longer, more PDA quarantines are with more likely exposure, or unknown vaccine status. Those obviously can get expensive, although my understanding is that they can even still be done on the owner's property, but there just needs to be signage indicating that it's a rabies quarantine area. Although, I imagine this varies by state because I think there is even a county neighboring Philly that is super strict on their rabies protocol/quarantines.

 

[hazelmoo]

Can they not do the 10 day quarantine in their house? In PA, that's an option if they're UTD and not suspected of having rabies. The longer, more PDA quarantines are with more likely exposure, or unknown vaccine status. Those obviously can get expensive, although my understanding is that they can even still be done on the owner's property, but there just needs to be signage indicating that it's a rabies quarantine area. Although, I imagine this varies by state because I think there is even a county neighboring Philly that is super strict on their rabies protocol/quarantines.

As far as I know, the quarantine has to take place in a "licensed facility" where the animal can be watched and isolated from any other animals. Animal control has the cheapest quarantine price in my town, but the conditions are pretty bad and can risk getting distemper or some other illness since it's so unsanitary. Clinics shoot up the price because they know people will pay, but at mine we try to help with cost as much as we can, especially if the people are nice and the bite was our fault

 

[Skimble]

Well because that's what the attending told me. I told her I didn't want to deal with the dog being sent out and she said it wouldn't be sent. The dog barely broke my skin, he just got me right on my joint so it hurt pretty badly and got very swollen. I'm also worried about the school now. The physician told me not to worry about reporting it unless I wanted my medical expenses covered, and now animal control is calling to school. I just feel bad. The dog didn't even come to the teaching hospital for an emergency, things just went downhill in the waiting room. Should I have gotten post-exposure anyways?

Sounds like the Dr gave you incorrect information, or there was a miscommunication. Rabies laws are super strict and for very good reasons. I'd recommend learning the rabies protocols for your area as when you can. They may recommend you get post exposure vaccines if they can't test the dog, even though he was vaccinated. If any animal bites (or scratches) a person and dies within 10 days, no matter if they were euthanized or died of a known cause, they must be tested for rabies. It sucks for the owners, and removing the head of a pet isn't fun for the vet either, but you just can't risk human life.

The bite was an accident, there is nothing you can do about that, it happens. You do need to know how to properly respond. I'm sure the school has dealt with this before. I'm surprised the staff that was there when it occurred didn't take appropriate action. Never lie to hospital staff about how a bite occurred, you won't do anyone any favors that way. In my experience most owners are pretty understanding and often feel guilty that someone got bitten by their pet. We only had one woman get angry, and she had brought in her cat that was several years old, had never been to a vet, no vaccines, intact, and of course was indoor/outdoor. The cat had come home a few weeks prior with a wound of unknown origin. The owner tried to treat it at home, but the cat got progressively worse. When she finally brought the cat in it was so sick, it couldn't stand up or lift its head. She refused aggressive treatment for financial reasons, but at the same time wanted us to "save her kitty". We did as much as we could that the owner would allow, but the cat died within an hour of arriving. By that time several of the staff had been exposed to the cat, and certainly the owners family had been exposed. Even though there was no bite history, we had to submit the head for testing, especially given the wound. At first she understood, but then she talked to her friend that was a "lawyer" and she got angry and blamed us for everything, including the cat dying and said we were mutilating her cat's body just to cause her more pain. Thankfully the test came back negative for rabies, but that was one case that I was actually concerned about. Every other animal we submitted for testing, I was fairly certain were negative, but I completely understand the reasoning behind it.

 

[LadyOtheFarm]

I mean the dog is long dead and likely in the ground at this point. Even the animal control officer said the brain would be untestable at this point, so I'm not sure why he's trying to contact them. I know that vaccines are never 100% (I think that's why they pursue testing/quarantine).

The quick fix, (though I have debated the efficacy of this with the doctors) is that even if the animal came in for euthanasia, if it bit or scratched somebody, it must be watched for 10 days (here) so we have delayed euthanasia and done all we could to keep declining patients alive so the family didn't need to deal with the testing. Otherwise, if you can't keep it alive, you must send the head in. All animal bites are mandatory reports. So even if the md thought he was gonna let it go, legally he has to report it. So the second it hits his books, most likely it automatically generated a report.

 

[Skimble]

As far as I know, the quarantine has to take place in a "licensed facility" where the animal can be watched and isolated from any other animals. Animal control has the cheapest quarantine price in my town, but the conditions are pretty bad and can risk getting distemper or some other illness since it's so unsanitary. Clinics shoot up the price because they know people will pay, but at mine we try to help with cost as much as we can, especially if the people are nice and the bite was our fault

What state are you in, if you don't mind me asking? I was under the impression that vaccinated animals were typically allowed to be quarantined at home if the animal bit someone or another animal. The laws are sometimes a bit stricter when it comes to unvaccinated animals that were bitten by an unknown/untested animal, which really sucks, because that is a 6 month quarantine instead of just 10 days. Where I live, they do allow owners to do the 6 month quarantine at home too, unless there are circumstances that would cause the officers involved to believe the quarantine wouldn't be properly handled.

 

[LadyOtheFarm]

What state are you in, if you don't mind me asking? I was under the impression that vaccinated animals were typically allowed to be quarantined at home if the animal bit someone or another animal. The laws are sometimes a bit stricter when it comes to unvaccinated animals that were bitten by an unknown/untested animal, which really sucks, because that is a 6 month quarantine instead of just 10 days. Where I live, they do allow owners to do the 6 month quarantine at home too, unless there are circumstances that would cause the officers involved to believe the quarantine wouldn't be properly handled.

We have a tree. Most animals can be quarantined at home, but some need to go to a licensed facility. I think the rule is if they were exposed and then exposed someone else and have unknown vaccine status.

 

[hazelmoo]

What state are you in, if you don't mind me asking? I was under the impression that vaccinated animals were typically allowed to be quarantined at home if the animal bit someone or another animal. The laws are sometimes a bit stricter when it comes to unvaccinated animals that were bitten by an unknown/untested animal, which really sucks, because that is a 6 month quarantine instead of just 10 days. Where I live, they do allow owners to do the 6 month quarantine at home too, unless there are circumstances that would cause the officers involved to believe the quarantine wouldn't be properly handled.

I've never heard of a 6 month quarantine! That's insane. I'm in Texas! At the wildlife center we have to euthanize anything that could even be suspected as rabies and send them in immediately (for obvious reasons) but with pets I've always been told that they MUST go to some sort of facility where they are completely isolated.
We had a skunk that was a suspected rabies case, and ended up testing positive. The person who brought it in had 2 dogs and a cat. Even though her pets were all indoor animals and never had any contact with the skunk whom she found on the side of the road leading to her property, all 3 of her animals had to be quarantined via animal control it's sad because now she will probably never bring anything to us ever again for fear of having to do that, and I do think it's kinda overkill, but I also understand that they would rather be safe than sorry even if it's costing people a ton of money (which may even be a benefit for them).

Edit: and all of her pets were up to date on vaccines.

 

[dyachei]

I've never heard of a 6 month quarantine! That's insane. I'm in Texas! At the wildlife center we have to euthanize anything that could even be suspected as rabies and send them in immediately (for obvious reasons) but with pets I've always been told that they MUST go to some sort of facility where they are completely isolated.
We had a skunk that was a suspected rabies case, and ended up testing positive. The person who brought it in had 2 dogs and a cat. Even though her pets were all indoor animals and never had any contact with the skunk whom she found on the side of the road leading to her property, all 3 of her animals had to be quarantined via animal control it's sad because now she will probably never bring anything to us ever again for fear of having to do that, and I do think it's kinda overkill, but I also understand that they would rather be safe than sorry even if it's costing people a ton of money (which may even be a benefit for them).

It can take up to 6 months for an animal that was exposed to develop rabies. Once they are rabid, they usually quickly decline (and why we have the 10 day quarantine for those that bite us/other animals).

 

[WildZoo]

I guess my situation a couple years ago was special because I have no idea of the identity of the dog that bit me or the owner (happened in an airport while I was helping get the dog unstuck from a moving walkway). I had no idea that even vaccinated animals had to be quarantined. Apparently nobody at the airport did either, since they barely even cared that the dog bit me

 

[Minnerbelle]

Ugh. So last week on my rotation, I got nipped by a dog. Not a huge deal, but my finger got very swollen and painful. Just to be sure, I went to urgent care. Just got sent home with antibiotics and an NSAID. Repeatedly made it clear I wasn't concerned about vaccine history and that it wasn't an aggression bite (we were intubating and I actually almost fell over and lost my grip and the dog just closed its mouth).

I just got a call from animal control letting me know that the officer is trying to get a hold of the now dead dog's owners to see if they can provide the body for testing. These poor people have been through enough. I understand the reasoning behind it, but still. The attending physician also told me that if I went to the doctor, the dog wouldn't need to be sent out. I feel terrible The officer said it was a state law, but now I just wish I would have made up some story about how it happened.

At least in my state, it is very clear cut. It doesn't matter what the vaccine status is. It doesn't matter whether or not the bite was accidental or vicious. It doesn't matter what the owners have been through. If there is a bite that breaks skin and the dog/cat dies or is euthanized within 10 days of the bite, testing is mandatory. The veterinarian who was there for the bite and the physician who treated the person for the bite can get in huge trouble if they do not report it. It's an obligation.

 

[Skimble]

I've never heard of a 6 month quarantine! That's insane. I'm in Texas! At the wildlife center we have to euthanize anything that could even be suspected as rabies and send them in immediately (for obvious reasons) but with pets I've always been told that they MUST go to some sort of facility where they are completely isolated.
We had a skunk that was a suspected rabies case, and ended up testing positive. The person who brought it in had 2 dogs and a cat. Even though her pets were all indoor animals and never had any contact with the skunk whom she found on the side of the road leading to her property, all 3 of her animals had to be quarantined via animal control it's sad because now she will probably never bring anything to us ever again for fear of having to do that, and I do think it's kinda overkill, but I also understand that they would rather be safe than sorry even if it's costing people a ton of money (which may even be a benefit for them).

Edit: and all of her pets were up to date on vaccines.

According to http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/HS/htm/HS.826.htm an owner can quarantine a vaccinated animal in their home in TX. Licensed facilities are only required for animals that are suspected of having been exposed to rabies/having exposed a human to rabies. I wonder if people in your area are just unaware of that, or of the local board is just super strict for some reason.

 

[hazelmoo]

According to http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/HS/htm/HS.826.htm an owner can quarantine a vaccinated animal in their home in TX. Licensed facilities are only required for animals that are suspected of having been exposed to rabies/having exposed a human to rabies. I wonder if people in your area are just unaware of that, or of the local board is just super strict for some reason.

Interesting!! I'm not sure, but I think that it might just be really strict where I am. Animal control is AWFUL here.. and there is no leash law so strays are not picked up unless showing aggression to the public.. We have a lot of dogs that get hit by cars because animal control refuses to help with the issue. I looked up the code for my specific county, but all I could see was what was on the animal control website. It just says that the animal must be "impounded" by them for 10 days regardless of vaccine status :/

 

[katashark]

On a somewhat related note, people who don't declare/follow the rules for their pets when they go to "rabies-free" countries drive me crazy.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

At least in my state, it is very clear cut. It doesn't matter what the vaccine status is. It doesn't matter whether or not the bite was accidental or vicious. It doesn't matter what the owners have been through. If there is a bite that breaks skin and the dog/cat dies or is euthanized within 10 days of the bite, testing is mandatory. The veterinarian who was there for the bite and the physician who treated the person for the bite can get in huge trouble if they do not report it. It's an obligation.

I ended up being called to the office of someone high up in the hospital to put together some of the pieces since we were all caught off guard. The person I told about the bite neglected to reveal that they were informed I was bitten, so I think that was part of the problem. It looked like I hid the fact I was bitten, then filed a bite report in the ER. I was definitely told that a report wasn't necessary unless I wanted medical expenses covered, and that either way, the dog would not need to be tested. I definitely wasn't familiar with the protocols when it comes to bites, but I'm surprised I was told incorrect info by the person given their position. I just feel bad about all of this and hope the owners are okay and that I'm not going to look like a stupid first year. I know it'll blow over, but the hospital director is involved and everything. I'm going to apologize to her that this situation happened, but I honestly was given bad info.

Another thing is that I didn't actually file a bite report. I just told the ER receptionist I was bit by a dog at school while on my rotation. So even I was caught off guard when animal control called both my house and my cell. I'm not sure if that's a law or not either, that a hospital has to report bites to animal control on their own regard.

 

[Skimble]

Another thing is that I didn't actually file a bite report. I just told the ER receptionist I was bit by a dog at school while on my rotation. So even I was caught off guard when animal control called both my house and my cell. I'm not sure if that's a law or not either, that a hospital has to report bites to animal control on their own regard.

It is the law that hospitals have to report pet bites to the health department. The health department may have animal control follow up with the animal part of the report.

 

[LetItSnow]

It's like, what is even the point of the rabies vaccine being required by law if you still have to do a mandatory quarantine if the dog bites someone?

The point is that good public health policies involve multiple layers of protection.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

It is the law that hospitals have to report pet bites to the health department. The health department may have animal control follow up with the animal part of the report.

See, that would have been where the hospital staff tells me "I understand you don't want to file a report, but we are legally obligated to inform animal control that you were bitten." No big deal. I could have then given the school a heads up so animal control didn't call several people today who had no idea what was going on. It's just turned into such a huge ordeal. I'm also not thrilled that one of the interns involved was actually talking to some of my classmates about the situation and that rumors are spreading. It's adding salt to the wound.

 

[Pugsforlove2014]

See, that would have been where the hospital staff tells me "I understand you don't want to file a report, but we are legally obligated to inform animal control that you were bitten." No big deal. I could have then given the school a heads up so animal control didn't call several people today who had no idea what was going on. It's just turned into such a huge ordeal. I'm also not thrilled that one of the interns involved was actually talking to some of my classmates about the situation and that rumors are spreading. It's adding salt to the wound.

I really hate when it gets to that sort of level. Unfortunately there's not much else you can do but ride it out, same with any other unpleasant situation. It'll move on soon and pass, just got to soldier through it for now.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

I really hate when it gets to that sort of level. Unfortunately there's not much else you can do but ride it out, same with any other unpleasant situation. It'll move on soon and pass, just got to soldier through it for now.

Thanks, I appreciate it. More than anything, I just want more than anything for the family to be left alone.

 

[Minnerbelle]

I ended up being called to the office of someone high up in the hospital to put together some of the pieces since we were all caught off guard. The person I told about the bite neglected to reveal that they were informed I was bitten, so I think that was part of the problem. It looked like I hid the fact I was bitten, then filed a bite report in the ER. I was definitely told that a report wasn't necessary unless I wanted medical expenses covered, and that either way, the dog would not need to be tested. I definitely wasn't familiar with the protocols when it comes to bites, but I'm surprised I was told incorrect info by the person given their position. I just feel bad about all of this and hope the owners are okay and that I'm not going to look like a stupid first year. I know it'll blow over, but the hospital director is involved and everything. I'm going to apologize to her that this situation happened, but I honestly was given bad info.

Another thing is that I didn't actually file a bite report. I just told the ER receptionist I was bit by a dog at school while on my rotation. So even I was caught off guard when animal control called both my house and my cell. I'm not sure if that's a law or not either, that a hospital has to report bites to animal control on their own regard.

It's not your fault, you didn't do anything wrong. The intern/clinicians in charge of the case who was responsible for both the patient and you dropped the ball. It's a big deal because they handled this very poorly. So don't worry about it it's not about you. They might be annoyed that you got bit, but everything else doesn't fall on you. Unless you hid the fact that you got bit, as long as you took yourself to get medical care and informed your supervisor about the bite, your responsibility ended there. I know when these things happen where it turns into a big hoohaa it can be uncomfortable when you're one of the involved parties, but the less you make a big deal of it, the faster it'll likely blow over. You don't have to feel responsible for the clients. You ARE 'a little first year' (not stupid, just not someone who should be shouldering any responsibility for these things), I'm sure the clients aren't thinking negatively of you for the tardy bite report they didn't know about until way later than they should have.

The hospital did the right thing by reporting it. It's also really not their responsibility to talk to you about the fact they're reporting.it doesn't really matter to them whether or not you wanted them to report it or not.

One thing I say to the involved parties every time I report a bite is that it is all about public health and taking whatever minimal risk of rabies is present seriously, not about fairness. So unfortunately, it is not fair. It is just what it is.

 

[hazelmoo]

The point is that good public health policies involve multiple layers of protection.

I guess it would make more sense to me if the animals were more commonly quarantined at their own homes in my area instead of at a vets office or in the animal control kennels. It just doesn't seem right to make a family who's done everything they were supposed to for their pet (yearly check ups, kept inside, up to date on all vaccines, overall healthy animal) have to pay hundreds of dollars on isolated quarantine (where they can't even interact with their pet) when the liklihood of their animal having rabies is virtually zero.
It especially sucks when the animal is brought in for whatever reason, the owner tells you that their pet can be fear-aggressive and to be careful, and the employees messes up in a way that which the bite was their own fault. The owner shouldn't have to deal with all of that heartache and drama when they did everything the law required of them to make sure their pet was protected in the first place. I understand the importance of protective public health policies, but I wonder if there has ever been a bite case like described above when the animal actually showed signs of rabies during those ten days?

 

[Minnerbelle]

I guess it would make more sense to me if the animals were more commonly quarantined at their own homes in my area instead of at a vets office or in the animal control kennels. It just doesn't seem right to make a family who's done everything they were supposed to for their pet (yearly check ups, kept inside, up to date on all vaccines, overall healthy animal) have to pay hundreds of dollars on isolated quarantine (where they can't even interact with their pet) when the liklihood of their animal having rabies is virtually zero.
It especially sucks when the animal is brought in for whatever reason, the owner tells you that their pet can be fear-aggressive and to be careful, and the employees messes up in a way that which the bite was their own fault. The owner shouldn't have to deal with all of that heartache and drama when they did everything the law required of them to make sure their pet was protected in the first place. I understand the importance of protective public health policies, but I wonder if there has ever been a bite case like described above when the animal actually showed signs of rabies during those ten days?

That totally depends on jurisdiction. All of my cases are home quarantined.

 

[hazelmoo]

One thing I say to the involved parties every time I report a bite is that it is all about public health and taking whatever minimal risk of rabies is present, not about fairness. So unfortunately, it is not fair. It is just what it is.

This is what we always say always say too. @pinkpuppy9, it really is an unfortunate situation for the family, but all you can do is hope they understand and that it's out of your hands at that point!

 

[pinkpuppy9]

It's not your fault, you didn't do anything wrong. The intern/clinicians in charge of the case who was responsible for both the patient and you dropped the ball. It's a big deal because they handled this very poorly. So don't worry about it it's not about you. They might be annoyed that you got bit, but everything else doesn't fall on you. Unless you hid the fact that you got bit, as long as you took yourself to get medical care and informed your supervisor about the bite, your responsibility ended there. I know when these things happen where it turns into a big hoohaa it can be uncomfortable when you're one of the involved parties, but the less you make a big deal of it, the faster it'll likely blow over. You don't have to feel responsible for the clients. You ARE 'a little first year' (not stupid, just not someone who should be shouldering any responsibility for these things), I'm sure the clients aren't thinking negatively of you for the tardy bite report they didn't know about until way later than they should have.

The hospital did the right thing by reporting it. It's also really not their responsibility to talk to you about the fact they're reporting.it doesn't really matter to them whether or not you wanted them to report it or not.

One thing I say to the involved parties every time I report a bite is that it is all about public health and taking whatever minimal risk of rabies is present, not about fairness. So unfortunately, it is not fair. It is just what it is.

Thank you, I appreciate it. It just overwhelmed me and I had like three important people 'need to talk to me' today and I just feel terrible. It doesn't help that I was told that an announcement will be made in class about reporting any bites, because those whispers will probably start up all over again.

My boyfriend basically told me the same thing you just did, that since I did tell my supervising DVM about it (and she was there, and she physically looked at my finger) and I was told incorrect info, my responsibility ends there. Of course, my mind is racing about how I could be remembered in a bad way for this since the correct story isn't the one being spread, but there's nothing I can do about that. I also emailed the DVM that witnessed the bite and she seems to be annoyed with me as well (she is someone I've learned a lot from and felt comfortable approaching until now). I just hope that it blows over. It's almost the weekend after all.

 

[orca2011]

Womp. One of the clinicians I asked for a LOR for match said no, which I thought might happen since we had less direct overlap for patients, but I felt like he and I had worked together more than other clinicians on the service. It just sucks that a rotation that I felt like I did well on, I ended up working the most with the intern.

 

[missdarjeeling]

At least in my state, it is very clear cut. It doesn't matter what the vaccine status is. It doesn't matter whether or not the bite was accidental or vicious. It doesn't matter what the owners have been through. If there is a bite that breaks skin and the dog/cat dies or is euthanized within 10 days of the bite, testing is mandatory. The veterinarian who was there for the bite and the physician who treated the person for the bite can get in huge trouble if they do not report it. It's an obligation.

Yeah, it's the same in my state. Our euthanasia release form even has a section that requires the owner to certify the pet hasn't bitten anyone in the past 10 days.

We recently had a situation with a dog that was overdue on its rabies vaccine and ended up biting an employee. He was ADR and losing weight rapidly, so we took rads. At my hospital, we don't sedate for rads except in special circumstances. So when he was getting up, he had a quick moment of absolute panic, out of nowhere, and bit the tech on the chin. The tech was rabies vaccinated, thankfully, but unfortunately the rads showed that the dog was just riddled with cancer. The owner was thus left with the choice of trying to see if her dog could survive another 10 days, which was unlikely given his state, or going ahead with euthanasia and having the head sent for testing. She didn't want to make him suffer by delaying euthanasia but was really angry that the dog's head would have to be sent out for testing. In the end, she had no choice but to PTS and agree to the testing.

As for isolated quarantine in a certified facility, I've only ever seen one case that necessitated this. It was a puppy that had been crated with a mother that died and tested positive for rabies. Both dogs had been brought into the country by a rescue a few days before the mother's death, and it turned out that the mother's rabies vaccination certificate had been completely falsified. That particular lovely cluster-f of a situation led to more than a dozen people having to get post-exposure prophylaxis because the fosters had taken the dog all over the place, including at least one pet store. The state health department determined that the puppy had to be quarantined for 3 months, though the law actually requires 6 months. Other than that, in both states I've worked in, at home quarantine has been the standard for animals that were UTD, and those were shorter quarantines - 10 days in this state, though I think it was slightly shorter in my old state.

It especially sucks when the animal is brought in for whatever reason, the owner tells you that their pet can be fear-aggressive and to be careful, and the employees messes up in a way that which the bite was their own fault. The owner shouldn't have to deal with all of that heartache and drama when they did everything the law required of them to make sure their pet was protected in the first place. I understand the importance of protective public health policies, but I wonder if there has ever been a bite case like described above when the animal actually showed signs of rabies during those ten days?

So what's the alternative? And why does it matter whether it's the employee's fault, assuming you can even have a fair way of deciding how much at fault someone is for getting bitten? If it's not the employee's fault, then the animal has to be quarantined, but if it is, then the client doesn't have to follow the law? How does that make any sense? Whether an employee made a mistake has no bearing on their risk of having been infected.

It sucks that dealing with a bite situation can cause drama and heartache for owners, but the reality is that a human being's life is more important than a client's feelings. Texas is at the top of the list for rabies cases in the US, and my state is number two, so "they're probably negative" isn't really good enough when you're talking about a disease that's essentially 100% fatal.

@pinkpuppy9 - hang in there. You didn't do anything wrong. And even though people may be gossiping now, it'll all blow over, and then next week, people will be whispering about some other thing that some other person supposedly did or didn't do.

 

[Gwenevre]

A mild rant, but a close friend of mine is in the process of adopting a dog. She's picking up the dog on Saturday. It's from one of those international shelter groups; this dog is an Indian street mutt.
My issues so far are that she doesn't know if he is neutered or not, doesn't know what his vet record is, she's adopting this dog from a shelter that's over 100 miles away, and apparently this dog was brought into the country recently (less than a month ago). Isn't there a quarantine period that imported animals have to go through? Vet records?

 

[hazelmoo]

So what's the alternative? And why does it matter whether it's the employee's fault, assuming you can even have a fair way of deciding how much at fault someone is for getting bitten? If it's not the employee's fault, then the animal has to be quarantined, but if it is, then the client doesn't have to follow the law? How does that make any sense? Whether an employee made a mistake has no bearing on their risk of having been infected.

It sucks that dealing with a bite situation can cause drama and heartache for owners, but the reality is that a human being's life is more important than a client's feelings. Texas is at the top of the list for rabies cases in the US, and my state is number two, so "they're probably negative" isn't really good enough when you're talking about a disease that's essentially 100% fatal.

I'm not sure I quite understand what you think I was saying... The point of me bringing up whether it was the employees fault is because I don't think it's fair that an owner has to pay hundreds of dollars when they didn't do anything but take their animal to the vet. If I take my pet to the vet for a checkup, I warn the staff to be careful, and then they still get bit because they didn't listen when I warned them, I'm going to be pissed when they tell me I'm going to have to pay $450+ for a 10 day isolated quarantine.

 

[missdarjeeling]

A mild rant, but a close friend of mine is in the process of adopting a dog. She's picking up the dog on Saturday. It's from one of those international shelter groups; this dog is an Indian street mutt.
My issues so far are that she doesn't know if he is neutered or not, doesn't know what his vet record is, she's adopting this dog from a shelter that's over 100 miles away, and apparently this dog was brought into the country recently (less than a month ago). Isn't there a quarantine period that imported animals have to go through? Vet records?

Heh, this was the situation with the rabies positive dog I just mentioned, which came from Egypt. Based on what the guy from the state health department told us, the animal must have been rabies vaccinated at least 30 days prior to entry into the country (if they have no prior vaccination history) and has to be at least 4 months old. Honestly, the puppy we saw was younger than 4 months, so I have no idea how they got it into the country. If an animal is visibly sick when it's examined at the port of entry, it can be denied, but AFAIK, those are the only requirements for dogs.

edit: I think the requirements may be different for Hawaii. We had a client who is taking two cats there, and she had to have rabies titers done something like 3-4 months in advance. One cat is UTD, and the other is on chlorambucil so it doesn't get vaccinated, but she had to do it for both. Other states might have additional requirements, too, but I think rabies vaccination and general health are the only ones on the federal level.

 

[orca2011]

I'm not sure I quite understand what you think I was saying... The point of me bringing up whether it was the employees fault is because I don't think it's fair that an owner has to pay hundreds of dollars when they didn't do anything but take their animal to the vet. If I take my pet to the vet for a checkup, I warn the staff to be careful, and then they still get bit because they didn't listen when I warned them, I'm going to be pissed when they tell me I'm going to have to pay $450+ for a 10 day isolated quarantine.

It's not that we didn't listen, it's just that it's not always that easy. You can be super careful and still get bit. It happens. We've used all kinds of crafty ways to get muzzles on. We double muzzle. We sedate. But bites just happen. It's not like every person who gets bit is just locking themselves in cages with police bite dogs (this has happened though) or doing other careless things around a dog.

 

[hazelmoo]

It's not that we didn't listen, it's just that it's not always that easy. You can be super careful and still get bit. It happens. We've used all kinds of crafty ways to get muzzles on. We double muzzle. We sedate. But bites just happen. It's not like every person who gets bit is just locking themselves in cages with police bite dogs (this has happened though) or doing other careless things around a dog.

Oh, I absolutely agree!! I've never been bitten thankfully, but I've had a couple close calls. Sometimes it was my fault, sometimes it wasn't. But I have personally seen people make mistakes that could have been avoided if they had listened to the owner's warning in the first place. When someone says "my dog bites strangers when they try to pet his face" and then a tech reaches down to pet his face and gets bit, I would consider that their fault even if it wasn't intentional. Accidents happen all the time, but I've learned to always be cautious since animals can be so unpredictable.

 

[katashark]

Has anyone gotten the rabies vaccine as a preventative measure?

 

[Gwenevre]

Has anyone gotten the rabies vaccine as a preventative measure?

I got my vaccines while I was still on my dad's insurance, and as a "what if I get into vet school" sort of thing. You have to get your rabies shots before matriculation into any and all US vet schools.

 

[missdarjeeling]

Has anyone gotten the rabies vaccine as a preventative measure?

Most vets and probably the majority of licensed techs I've worked with got them at school as a preventative measure. Most assistants I've worked with got vaccinated after a bite incident. I'm hoping to get mine through work when I hit the 1 year mark if I don't get into school this year because my hospital will pay 100% of the cost then, and it's way too expensive otherwise.

 

[Gwenevre]

Heh, this was the situation with the rabies positive dog I just mentioned, which came from Egypt. Based on what the guy from the state health department told us, the animal must have been rabies vaccinated at least 30 days prior to entry into the country (if they have no prior vaccination history) and has to be at least 4 months old. Honestly, the puppy we saw was younger than 4 months, so I have no idea how they got it into the country. If an animal is visibly sick when it's examined at the port of entry, it can be denied, but AFAIK, those are the only requirements for dogs.

edit: I think the requirements may be different for Hawaii. We had a client who is taking two cats there, and she had to have rabies titers done something like 3-4 months in advance. One cat is UTD, and the other is on chlorambucil so it doesn't get vaccinated, but she had to do it for both. Other states might have additional requirements, too, but I think rabies vaccination and general health are the only ones on the federal level.

Yeah, I'm super worried for her because she's completely head over heels for this dog she hasn't even met yet. I don't want it to turn into a bad experience due to negligence on the shelter or on whomever transported this dog over the pond.

 

[katashark]

I got my vaccines while I was still on my dad's insurance, and as a "what if I get into vet school" sort of thing. You have to get your rabies shots before matriculation into any and all US vet schools.

Thanks for letting me know! I've been debating getting it for a while now.

 

[hazelmoo]

I have my pre exposure rabies vaccines for my work at the wildlife center. They were "on sale" when I got them at only $700!! Lol

 

[hazelmoo]

Thanks for letting me know! I've been debating getting it for a while now.

I think you have to get them in vet school. I would have waited until the because I'm pretty sure you get a discount, but then I wouldn't had been able to work with any of the rabies vectors so I figured it would be worth getting them early!

 

[katashark]

I was planning on getting it soon anyways.

 

[Caiter92]

I got my vaccines while I was still on my dad's insurance, and as a "what if I get into vet school" sort of thing. You have to get your rabies shots before matriculation into any and all US vet schools.

Actually, WSU doesn't require it prior to matriculation, and as far as I know it's still just suggested prior to starting clinics. Our associated is c/o 2015 and wasn't required to have it, and I have a friend that's c/o 2017 that hasn't had it yet either/hasn't been told she's required to prior to clinics still.

Most schools seem to require it before clinics at the very least, but WSU doesn't. This may have something to do with rabies in the area? In WA only bats are considered rabies vector species, and there is a pretty low rate of rabies in general, so maybe that's why they don't require it?

Seems weird to me though. It's so much less of a hassle if you were to get bit, and somewhat easier to get insurance to cover it, when it's required.

 

[DVMDream]

It's not that we didn't listen, it's just that it's not always that easy. You can be super careful and still get bit. It happens. We've used all kinds of crafty ways to get muzzles on. We double muzzle. We sedate. But bites just happen. It's not like every person who gets bit is just locking themselves in cages with police bite dogs (this has happened though) or doing other careless things around a dog.

I have been bitten by a muzzled dog. The dog just managed to get the proper angle, lunged at me as the vet was handing the dog's leash over to me to go talk to the owner about sedation. It was just right timing, right place, front of muzzle, bite. Got my thumb and I lost my finger nail.

Wasn't my fault. Wasn't the vet's fault. We weren't even touching the dog. Wasn't even the dog's fault. I do blame the owner for never socializing her high-energy herding dog that she admitted at 5 years of age this visit to the vet was the first time the dog had ever been out of the house in public.

 

[hazelmoo]

I got my vaccines while I was still on my dad's insurance, and as a "what if I get into vet school" sort of thing. You have to get your rabies shots before matriculation into any and all US vet schools.

I'm jealous! When I had health insurance, I tried to get them to cover my rabies vaccines. They pretty much told me "we only cover post exposure, no pre exposure".