RANT HERE thread

[Gwenevre]

Actually, WSU doesn't require it prior to matriculation, and as far as I know it's still just suggested prior to starting clinics. Our associated is c/o 2015 and wasn't required to have it, and I have a friend that's c/o 2017 that hasn't had it yet either/hasn't been told she's required to prior to clinics still.

Most schools seem to require it before clinics at the very least, but WSU doesn't. This may have something to do with rabies in the area? In WA only bats are considered rabies vector species, and there is a pretty low rate of rabies in general, so maybe that's why they don't require it?

Seems weird to me though. It's so much less of a hassle if you were to get bit, and somewhat easier to get insurance to cover it, when it's required.

TIL!

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[Gwenevre]

I'm jealous! When I had health insurance, I tried to get them to cover my rabies vaccines. They pretty much told me "we only cover post exposure, no pre exposure".

I was a lucky one. My dad is insured through one of the few places that has pre-exposure covered. Else I'd have paid $300 per shot.

 

[Caiter92]

TIL!

Every other school (I think?) does, WSU is just weird

(And my insurance policies make it seem like they'd cover it too if it were required. So now if I want it prior to school (which I do, I wish I had it now!), I'll have to cover it out of pocket. booooo)

 

[dyachei]

Utk didn't require it prior to matriculation when I was there. But we did have to have it prior to clinics

 

[dyachei]

What I want to know is why boarding for 10 days costs $450. Unless she's talking about the 6 month deal. And in that case it's when an animal is exposed....

 

[that redhead]

If I take my pet to the vet for a checkup, I warn the staff to be careful, and then they still get bit because they didn't listen when I warned them, I'm going to be pissed when they tell me I'm going to have to pay $450+ for a 10 day isolated quarantine.

Even with the most nasty dogs who we know will be actively trying to bite us, when we are taking the utmost precautions to not be bitten, it can still happen.

 

[hazelmoo]

I understand that biting can still happen when you're being careful, but sometimes it can still happens because you weren't careful enough. I've been in both situations before. I'm fully aware that accidents will happen no matter what sometimes.

Yeah, the cost is ridiculous. I'm referring to the 10 day isolated quarantine. Gowning up to enter the room 3 times a day for assessment, not being able to touch the dog but still taking vitals, etc, takes a lot of time (not that I condone how much it is in any way, shape, or form). 6 months in the isolation room at my clinic would be around 9k lol. We have never had to board an animal for that long though. But like I said, the clinics here know they can get away with it because people will pay since they have no choice. It's ridiculous.

 

[dyachei]

I understand that biting can still happen when you're being careful, but sometimes it can still happens because you weren't careful enough. I've been in both situations before. I'm fully aware that accidents will happen no matter what sometimes.

Yeah, the cost is ridiculous. I'm referring to the 10 day isolated quarantine. Gowning up to enter the room 3 times a day for assessment, not being able to touch the dog but still taking vitals, etc, takes a lot of time (not that I condone how much it is in any way, shape, or form). 6 months in the isolation room at my clinic would be around 9k lol. We have never had to board an animal for that long though. But like I said, the clinics here know they can get away with it because people will pay since they have no choice. It's ridiculous.

you can still touch a rabies suspect dog. you just can't be bitten or get saliva in wounds.

And as to the first, everyone has off days. I hope it NEVER happens to you, but when it does, remember your attitude about it now.

 

[hazelmoo]

you can still touch a rabies suspect dog. you just can't be bitten or get saliva in wounds.

And as to the first, everyone has off days. I hope it NEVER happens to you, but when it does, remember your attitude about it now.

At my clinic, we are not allowed to touch a dog or cat in rabies quarantine.

I also don't understand why you think I'm having a bad attitude about getting bitten... I specifically said I have seen it happen because someone didn't listen and wasn't being careful, but I have also seen it happen when there was nothing that could have possibly been done. I've even been in both situations. We all know that people can be bitten in both situations. How is that having an attitude?

 

[that redhead]

At my clinic, we are not allowed to touch a dog or cat in rabies quarantine.

That's likely just your clinic protocol. Where I work, unvaccinated animals are only to be handled by those with their vaccines, and if that animal has to stay for any period of time, we assign one vet and one technician to work with the animal - preferably the ones who did the intake work. That way, if it were to be positive, that's only two people that would need the PEP.

 

[hazelmoo]

That's likely just your clinic protocol. Where I work, unvaccinated animals are only to be handled by those with their vaccines, and if that animal has to stay for any period of time, we assign one vet and one technician to work with the animal - preferably the ones who did the intake work. That way, if it were to be positive, that's only two people that would need the PEP.

I think you're right! Or maybe it is a city thing. I know that if the owners choose to quarantine their pet with animal control, they aren't allowed to have any contact either. That also may be just an animal control protocol. I like the idea of assigning only a certain person or 2 people to handle the animal.. that would make things a lot easier. But we have to quarantine any animal that bites, even if they are vaccinated.

 

[KCgophervet]

Follow up:

Fast forward to today, we still have no patient, we are running out of time (we're supposed to have bloodwork done and drug protocols written up the night before), I am supposed to work tonight, and the school hasn't been able to find anyone and asked us to help try to find a patient. I am freaking out and pretty well convinced that at this point we're just going to get shafted a surgery, meaning half my group won't even GET to do a surgery (since it's split up into surgeons/anesthetists who then switch roles for the second round of surgeries in December).

They found us a dog at 5pm the night before surgery Only dog neuter on the "cat spay day" but we'll take it! He did really well, is super sweet, and I'm sure he'll be adopted out no problem. Rant resolved

This weekend I told him he should take her to the vet and he agreed and promised to call on Monday. Today, we had lunch together, and I reminded him to call the vet since he forgot yesterday. He looks at me and goes "well I don't want to waste a morning going to the vet plus all the money of the exam and you know they'll want to do bloodwork before I'm sure there's anything wrong with her." I straight up wanted to punch him in the face. AAAAAAAGH!!

After I ranted here Tuesday afternoon, I sent him an email expressing my incredible frustration with his attitude about this whole situation. The email was a bit harsh, but I was so upset I needed to address it. I got home late on Tuesday after work, went straight to bed without talking to him because I had an early day on Wednesday. Wednesday was another late night as I drew short straw on monitoring our patient and taking him out for last potty break, got home late and again we went to bed without speaking. Last night he got home around 9pm from racquetball, and I asked if we could talk. He said "not right now" and disappeared into his office for a couple of hours. Well I eventually gave up on talking, because I knew a couple hour long conversation was going to ensue, took a shower, got ready for bed, and THEN spot him waiting for me where I'd been hanging out, now "ready" to talk. I was pissed because I had to get up at 6am and told him "well, it's too late, I don't have time to talk now, I have to be up at 6am." And I went to bed. This whole thing is being blown up way out of proportion but I still get upset whenever I remember what he said. And after looking up stuff on VIN and my class notes I'm more and more convinced his cat might have hyperthyroidism (I possibly even felt enlarged thryoid when I palpated her neck and compared it to my cats neck, but that's super subjective and totally unreliable in my hands). I just don't want him to be that client that vets hate because they clearly have the money and the means to care for their pet but don't because ... who the hell knows why they don't. Grr. Rant remains in progress.

Off topic: Haha @wheelin2vetmed But in my previous rant I was merely capitalizing for emphasis

 

[dyachei]

I also don't understand why you think I'm having a bad attitude about getting bitten... I specifically said I have seen it happen because someone didn't listen and wasn't being careful, but I have also seen it happen when there was nothing that could have possibly been done. I've even been in both situations. We all know that people can be bitten in both situations. How is that having an attitude?

You're making an assumption that they aren't listening. Even if they did something you perceive as wrong, accidents happen. Some things can be avoided, but not everything. The example you used above? Someone being told not to pet their head and doing it anyway? Maybe they didn't really hear it or were already in the act. Accidents happen. Even if you know better, etc. The attitude you have is that it is their fault because they didn't listen. We're telling you that's not usually the case. Very rarely does an injury happen in my clinic that was from a tech doing something wrong. Part of your training as a tech is to read body language of animals and some just don't give cues. Others do but the owners misread them.

 

[missdarjeeling]

You're making an assumption that they aren't listening. Even if they did something you perceive as wrong, accidents happen. Some things can be avoided, but not everything. The example you used above? Someone being told not to pet their head and doing it anyway? Maybe they didn't really hear it or were already in the act. Accidents happen. Even if you know better, etc. The attitude you have is that it is their fault because they didn't listen. We're telling you that's not usually the case. Very rarely does an injury happen in my clinic that was from a tech doing something wrong. Part of your training as a tech is to read body language of animals and some just don't give cues. Others do but the owners misread them.

Yeah, absolutely. And sometimes you ARE listening but your mind doesn't catch up in time because you're distracted or exhausted or having a really off day or whatever it may be. Even when it is your 'fault', that doesn't mean much other than, hey, you're actually human and can't always be 100% vigilant even when you know you should be.

 

[hazelmoo]

You're making an assumption that they aren't listening. Even if they did something you perceive as wrong, accidents happen. Some things can be avoided, but not everything. The example you used above? Someone being told not to pet their head and doing it anyway? Maybe they didn't really hear it or were already in the act. Accidents happen. Even if you know better, etc. The attitude you have is that it is their fault because they didn't listen. We're telling you that's not usually the case. Very rarely does an injury happen in my clinic that was from a tech doing something wrong. Part of your training as a tech is to read body language of animals and some just don't give cues. Others do but the owners misread them.

I never said that it was usually the case that someone gets bitten because of something they did. All I am saying is that it DOES happen and I have seen it happen. The tech that got bit while reaching for the dog's face got bit because they thought they had a "bond" with the dog and that he would never bite her. People make mistakes, it happens all of the time. Then they learn, and hopefully don't make the same mistake twice. Another tech at my clinic got bit for the the first time in 6 years. The dog that bit her bit through the muzzle. There was nothing that she could have done to not get bitten, because accidents happen. I don't see how this is becoming an debate when I have said over and over that I agree with what you are saying.. Lol.

 

[dyachei]

I never said that it was usually the case that someone gets bitten because of something they did. All I am saying is that it DOES happen and I have seen it happen. The tech that got bit while reaching for the dog's face got bit because they thought they had a "bond" with the dog and that he would never bite her. People make mistakes, it happens all of the time. Then they learn, and hopefully don't make the same mistake twice. Another tech at my clinic got bit for the the first time in 6 years. The dog that bit her bit through the muzzle. There was nothing that she could have done to not get bitten, because accidents happen. I don't see how this is becoming an debate when I have said over and over that I agree with what you are saying.. Lol.

because blaming it on the tech is never appropriate. The animal is the one doing the biting. Unless the tech is abusing the dog, it's not their fault that the dog is aggressive.

 

[hazelmoo]

because blaming it on the tech is never appropriate. The animal is the one doing the biting. Unless the tech is abusing the dog, it's not their fault that the dog is aggressive.

Well then I guess that's where we disagree. Of course it's not the tech's fault that the dog is aggressive, but there are things that can be done to be more cautious and careful, which is something that is learned over years of being a tech. The tech who got bitten by the dog she felt "bonded" with hasn't been bitten since, and she even admitted that it was her fault and that she wouldn't make the same mistake again when she was addressed by the head vet with "why didn't you listen?". Anyways.

After I ranted here Tuesday afternoon, I sent him an email expressing my incredible frustration with his attitude about this whole situation. The email was a bit harsh, but I was so upset I needed to address it. I got home late on Tuesday after work, went straight to bed without talking to him because I had an early day on Wednesday. Wednesday was another late night as I drew short straw on monitoring our patient and taking him out for last potty break, got home late and again we went to bed without speaking. Last night he got home around 9pm from racquetball, and I asked if we could talk. He said "not right now" and disappeared into his office for a couple of hours. Well I eventually gave up on talking, because I knew a couple hour long conversation was going to ensue, took a shower, got ready for bed, and THEN spot him waiting for me where I'd been hanging out, now "ready" to talk. I was pissed because I had to get up at 6am and told him "well, it's too late, I don't have time to talk now, I have to be up at 6am." And I went to bed. This whole thing is being blown up way out of proportion but I still get upset whenever I remember what he said. And after looking up stuff on VIN and my class notes I'm more and more convinced his cat might have hyperthyroidism (I possibly even felt enlarged thryoid when I palpated her neck and compared it to my cats neck, but that's super subjective and totally unreliable in my hands). I just don't want him to be that client that vets hate because they clearly have the money and the means to care for their pet but don't because ... who the hell knows why they don't. Grr. Rant remains in progress.
Off topic: Haha @wheelin2vetmed But in my previous rant I was merely capitalizing for emphasis

I am sorry kcough!!! I hope he realized what an a** he was and makes it up to you somehow!

 

[dyachei]

Well then I guess that's where we disagree. Of course it's not the tech's fault that the dog is aggressive, but there are things that can be done to be more cautious and careful, which is something that is learned over years of being a tech. The tech who got bitten by the dog she felt "bonded" with hasn't been bitten since, and she even admitted that it was her fault and that she wouldn't make the same mistake again when she was addressed by the head vet with "why didn't you listen?". Anyways.

doesn't matter. The head vet might be venting (which they shouldn't do) but that doesn't make them right.

 

[DVMDream]

Well then I guess that's where we disagree. Of course it's not the tech's fault that the dog is aggressive, but there are things that can be done to be more cautious and careful, which is something that is learned over years of being a tech. The tech who got bitten by the dog she felt "bonded" with hasn't been bitten since, and she even admitted that it was her fault and that she wouldn't make the same mistake again when she was addressed by the head vet with "why didn't you listen?". Anyways.



I am sorry kcough!!! I hope he realized what an a** he was and makes it up to you somehow!

It's called a mistake. You don't place "fault" or "blame". And a decent vet knows that. You can turn that into a leaning opportunity instead of scolding and placing blame.

I sure hope you're never on the making a mistake end of things.

Also, your example of techs being bit because they didn't listen is incredibly, incredibly rare.

 

[hazelmoo]

doesn't matter. The head vet might be venting (which they shouldn't do) but that doesn't make them right.

Do you think it's the tech's fault if the doctor gets bitten during an exam while the tech is holding?

 

[dyachei]

Do you think it's the tech's fault if the doctor gets bitten during an exam while the tech is holding?

no, these things happen. Even with the best restraint.

 

[hazelmoo]

It's called a mistake. You don't place "fault" or "blame". And a decent vet knows that. You can turn that into a leaning opportunity instead of scolding and placing blame.

I sure hope you're never on the making a mistake end of things.

Also, your example of techs being bit because they didn't listen is incredibly, incredibly rare.

I make mistakes all of the time. Thankfully none have been too severe, but I'm sure it will happen as I work with animals more and more.

no, these things happen. Even with the best restraint.

Wow, then I honestly wish I was lucky enough to work as a tech with a vet like you! A guy got fired from my clinic because a vet got bit while he was holding for an exam, on two different occasions :/ he had also been bitten himself once or twice in the time he was employed there.

 

[dyachei]

I make mistakes all of the time. Thankfully none have been too severe, but I'm sure it will happen as I work with animals more and more.



Wow, then I honestly wish I was lucky enough to work as a tech with a vet like you! A guy got fired from my clinic because a vet got bit while he was holding for an exam, on two different occasions :/ he had also been bitten himself once or twice in the time he was employed there.

I've been badly bitten by a cat a tech was holding. I was upset at the time, but it's a risk i take every time I come to work.

 

[dyachei]

I also should mention that I constantly educate my techs on proper holds and I will stop doing what I am doing to teach them the correct hold. Because even if they don't notice it, the buck stops with me. Everything that happens here is my responsibility. And education goes further than punishment

 

[hazelmoo]

I make mistakes all of the time. Thankfully none have been too severe, but I'm sure it will happen as I work with animals more and more.



Wow, then I honestly wish I was lucky enough to work as a tech with a vet like you! A guy got fired from my clinic because a vet got bit while he was holding for an exam, on two different occasions :/ he had also been bitten himself once or twice in the time he was employed there.

Actually, I take this back! A cat scratched the living hell out of my arm about a year ago. I knew they were fear aggressive, so I got the kitty muzzle on and wrapped them in a towel. The towel had a tiny hole in it, and he somehow got his foot in the hole and ripped through. I had to keep holding since we were very busy at the time and there were about 5 dogs in the back. I didn't want the cat to get attacked by a dog or escape the clinic somehow, so I held on. It's hard to see in the pic, but he deeply scratched up my whole arm and it scarred. So much so that people thought I was self harming. I still say that it was my fault, even though it was a mistake, since I knew the cat was aggressive and had the potential of hurting me. I don't blame the cat. But now whenever I have to deal with an aggressive cat, I double towel them. Lol

 

[battie]

And education goes further than punishment

This is an awesome statement. I wish that the vet I last worked with felt the same.

 

[DVMDream]

Actually, I take this back! A cat scratched the living hell out of my arm about a year ago. I knew they were fear aggressive, so I got the kitty muzzle on and wrapped them in a towel. The towel had a tiny hole in it, and he somehow got his foot in the hole and ripped through. I had to keep holding since we were very busy at the time and there were about 5 dogs in the back. I didn't want the cat to get attacked by a dog or escape the clinic somehow, so I held on. It's hard to see in the pic, but he deeply scratched up my whole arm and it scarred. So much so that people thought I was self harming. I still say that it was my fault, even though it was a mistake, since I knew the cat was aggressive and had the potential of hurting me. I don't blame the cat. But now whenever I have to deal with an aggressive cat, I double towel them. Lol

Lol. That wasn't your fault. That was just a sometimes no matter what we do, bad crap happens.

 

[Pugsforlove2014]

We were getting the bandages off of a declaw. I'd towel burritoed it, had a muzzle on, and I think they'd also drugged it up to a certain point as well. Two of us were restraining him but he still managed to thrash around enough to get his muzzle off and bite me pretty well. Fast forward another couple weeks and I was restraining a dog for blood draw, holding him the the usual manner that I've been taught. The dog jerked his arm suddenly and the tech jabbed herself. Nothing much you can do about a dog suddenly moving, especially one whose about 70 lbs, I can only restrict his movement. Anyhow the jerk of a manager calls me into his office to "talk" to me an see if everything's going okay since two incidents happened so close to, basically blaming me for both incidents. Well, okay, but couldn't you just instruct me on how to do it next time instead of blaming me and asking me to explain why these events happened.
Blaming never helps the situation, that's why the last clinic I worked out was such an unhealthy environment.

 

[Skimble]

We had a bull terrier come in that was completely unpredictable. One minute he would be super friendly, then he'd suddenly switch to attack mode. He had bitten two techs, one of the kennel staff, two of the owner's coworkers and attempted to bite all of the doctors and several techs. When the dog came in to board, the rules were that one person would prepare the kennel while another person made sure to clear all hallways before getting him. No one was to ever be in the kennel with the dog for any reason. The one guy in the kennel (same one that had already been bitten by this dog) felt he had a bond with the dog, so one day when the dog came in to board, he completely ignored protocol. He got the dog, took him into the kennel run and then proceeded to set up the run with bedding, bowls, etc. and then played with him. The dog viciously attacked him. We had to stop the owner in the parking lot to let him know what happened. Kennel guy was rushed to the hospital and ended up being very lucky that the dog hadn't done more damage, though there was potential for nerve damage. The owner was so upset that the dog had bitten another person, and so viscously, that he decided to have him immediately euthanized with the knowledge that we'd have to submit the head.

While I agree the dog was the one at fault, this kennel worker knew first hand what the dog was capable of and he decided to make several bad decisions in a row which resulted in him getting seriously injured. I know everyone there felt this guy was partially at fault for what happened. He knew he shouldn't have been in the run with him, and he definitely shouldn't have been playing with him.

That's also a weird exception, and 99.9% of the time bites that occur in vet hospitals are accidents.

 

[MassDVMMPH]

We had a bull terrier come in that was completely unpredictable. One minute he would be super friendly, then he'd suddenly switch to attack mode. He had bitten two techs, one of the kennel staff, two of the owner's coworkers and attempted to bite all of the doctors and several techs. When the dog came in to board, the rules were that one person would prepare the kennel while another person made sure to clear all hallways before getting him. No one was to ever be in the kennel with the dog for any reason. The one guy in the kennel (same one that had already been bitten by this dog) felt he had a bond with the dog, so one day when the dog came in to board, he completely ignored protocol. He got the dog, took him into the kennel run and then proceeded to set up the run with bedding, bowls, etc. and then played with him. The dog viciously attacked him. We had to stop the owner in the parking lot to let him know what happened. Kennel guy was rushed to the hospital and ended up being very lucky that the dog hadn't done more damage, though there was potential for nerve damage. The owner was so upset that the dog had bitten another person, and so viscously, that he decided to have him immediately euthanized with the knowledge that we'd have to submit the head.

While I agree the dog was the one at fault, this kennel worker knew first hand what the dog was capable of and he decided to make several bad decisions in a row which resulted in him getting seriously injured. I know everyone there felt this guy was partially at fault for what happened. He knew he shouldn't have been in the run with him, and he definitely shouldn't have been playing with him.

That's also a weird exception, and 99.9% of the time bites that occur in vet hospitals are accidents.

A dog that unpredictably vicious should have been euthanized a long time ago. I'm surprised the owner of the practice kept agreeing to board a dog like that - knowing how bad he was. Providing medical care is one thing - I personally believe vets are obligated to provide medical care no matter how aggressive an animal is. But boarding should not be considered the same type of obligation. People who work at a vet hospital just don't get paid enough to deal with that kind of crap.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

I make mistakes all of the time. Thankfully none have been too severe, but I'm sure it will happen as I work with animals more and more.



Wow, then I honestly wish I was lucky enough to work as a tech with a vet like you! A guy got fired from my clinic because a vet got bit while he was holding for an exam, on two different occasions :/ he had also been bitten himself once or twice in the time he was employed there.

I posted a lot about the vet from my previous job. There are unreasonable vets out there. The vet I'm talking about got a bad bite from a cat (plus she has bad reactions to cat bites anyways). The best part about it is that she specifically told me just to hold the cats legs, and she would hold up the head herself for a blood draw. The cat nailed her, and since she was holding the head, I got my hands away from the cat as a reflex. Who got blamed, even months later? Me. Sometimes you end up working for a poor role model. The best lesson you can learn is how not to handle situations. In the case for your coworker, it could have been an unreasonable vet, or it could have been that he had been shown multiple times how to restrain and just wasn't getting it. Idk if I'd fire someone right away for that, but I'd certainly make an effort to train them, help them practice on well-behaved patients, etc.

The thing is that even if someone manages not to get bit by your (not specifically you) nasty dog/cat that you warned them about, the entire staff is still at risk for harm via claws, flailing limbs, and just brute force. I've been clocked upside the head by flailing dog heads more often than I can count. I've destroyed my shoulder being the 'preferred' restrainer for larger, badly behaved patients. I had gauge marks and bad bruises constantly. I'm not even going to delve into how much an appointment with one bad patient can affect how the entire day goes. It's just the nature of the job. You will have perfectly behaved patients, and you will have patients that the entire staff dreads coming in and you have to block off an hour. The client may/may not be informed that their pet bit someone, but they are almost never informed when it comes to scratching, screaming, or requiring 3 restrainers.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

A dog that unpredictably vicious should have been euthanized a long time ago. I'm surprised the owner of the practice kept agreeing to board a dog like that - knowing how bad he was. Providing medical care is one thing - I personally believe vets are obligated to provide medical care no matter how aggressive an animal is. But boarding should not be considered the same type of obligation. People who work at a vet hospital just don't get paid enough to deal with that kind of crap.

I kind of both agree and disagree with that. Yes, we have a responsibility to provide medical care, but we also have a responsibility to our staff and ourselves as well. I'm all for trying, but I think both the vet and the owner should come to a decision about where the line is drawn. It's very difficult to do that when your owner isn't cooperative or isn't being realistic about the animal.

 

[Skimble]

A dog that unpredictably vicious should have been euthanized a long time ago. I'm surprised the owner of the practice kept agreeing to board a dog like that - knowing how bad he was. Providing medical care is one thing - I personally believe vets are obligated to provide medical care no matter how aggressive an animal is. But boarding should not be considered the same type of obligation. People who work at a vet hospital just don't get paid enough to deal with that kind of crap.

Until that moment he had typically boarded well, and none of the previous bites were nearly as bad. This office was very proud of being able to board aggressive dogs without incident because usually the staff follows proper protocol.

 

[Minnerbelle]

I kind of both agree and disagree with that. Yes, we have a responsibility to provide medical care, but we also have a responsibility to our staff and ourselves as well. I'm all for trying, but I think both the vet and the owner should come to a decision about where the line is drawn. It's very difficult to do that when your owner isn't cooperative or isn't being realistic about the animal.

I think she meant that if a pet needed medical care, a hospital should be able to provide it under their terms. NOT the hospital should have to deal with whatever ****head the dog is being under the owner's terms.

I have had situations where dogs come in really awful that I've refused because I felt it was unsafe and did not feel comfortable with the owner trying to muzzle. If the owner gets mauled on my watch, I am liable. In those cases, I tell the owner the dog is not allowed in the clinic for anything other than euthanasia unless the owner can safely and appropriately basket muzzle the dog prior to bringing the dog in AND if needed the dog would be sedated. If it is unsafe for the owner to muzzle at home, I urge them to euthanize and if they're unwilling, have them sign that they understand their dog is dangerous or at least let them know that I am marking in the record that this dog is dangerous and that it should be euthanized. I tell them that the only other person who should ever be consulted on the dangerous dog is a veterinary behaviorist, but depending on the situation even that is ill-advised sometimes.

If that makes the owner dislike me, I don't care. They can put staff at another hospital at risk if they so choose, but they can't put me or my staff at further risk. If a dog truly needs medical care, and the owner can manage the behavior at home, I don't mind treating ONLY as long as they will play the game according to our rules.

 

[Minnerbelle]

Until that moment he had typically boarded well, and none of the previous bites were nearly as bad. This office was very proud of being able to board aggressive dogs without incident because usually the staff follows proper protocol.

Regardless, please tell me that tech was indeed fired. Because that was really really stupid. I wouldn't be able to trust someone like that after this type of blatant disregard for protocol.

 

[dyachei]

I kind of both agree and disagree with that. Yes, we have a responsibility to provide medical care, but we also have a responsibility to our staff and ourselves as well. I'm all for trying, but I think both the vet and the owner should come to a decision about where the line is drawn. It's very difficult to do that when your owner isn't cooperative or isn't being realistic about the animal.

chemical restraint is still a type of restraint. And is sometimes VERY necessary. We had an owner with an aggressive rottie. We ended up giving her alprazolam, gabapentin, and an adaptil collar before she came in for anything and then would have the owner muzzle if they felt like they could. If not we would use restraint tools and give IM sedation. The owner understood but we explained anyway that it was for her safety, our safety, and the dog's safety. And it's all true.

Unrelated rant: I have very few things I just don't tolerate at all. We've been having issues with the techs opening tests/medications/etc before an owner has approved it so we discussed it in detail at the team meeting. We said again and again that techs should gather, but not do anything irreversible. So today one of my techs labels a blood tube before getting approval from the owner. I know it's not a big deal, but we had just talked about it on Monday. So I mention to the tech that we had just discussed this and we need to make sure to get owner approval before doing things like that. She then tells me "Well I knew the owner would want to go for it" then COMPLETELY changes her story while talking to me and said she labeled it after getting approval. I know for a fact that she had prelabeled it. This was just a blood tube, but we have lost snap tests, vaccines, etc because she think she's being helpful and I wanted to kind of stay on top of it. The bigger issue is the lying to me. I just don't tolerate that. people make mistakes, accidents happen. This specific tech keeps trying to hide her mistakes and I think I'm going to have to let her go.

 

[DVMDream]

I think I'm going to have to let her go.

If it is who I think it is, yes, you should.

 

[dyachei]

If it is who I think it is, yes, you should.

I am on leave for 10 days now. I told my office manager/dad we needed to write her up. He agreed but didn't want to do it without me....You have to have a certain amount of write ups before terminating anyone. So this is step one

 

[DVMDream]

I am on leave for 10 days now. I told my office manager/dad we needed to write her up. He agreed but didn't want to do it without me....You have to have a certain amount of write ups before terminating anyone. So this is step one

Yeah, it is a process, at least he has agreed.

 

[Minnerbelle]

chemical restraint is still a type of restraint. And is sometimes VERY necessary. We had an owner with an aggressive rottie. We ended up giving her alprazolam, gabapentin, and an adaptil collar before she came in for anything and then would have the owner muzzle if they felt like they could. If not we would use restraint tools and give IM sedation. The owner understood but we explained anyway that it was for her safety, our safety, and the dog's safety. And it's all true.

Unrelated rant: I have very few things I just don't tolerate at all. We've been having issues with the techs opening tests/medications/etc before an owner has approved it so we discussed it in detail at the team meeting. We said again and again that techs should gather, but not do anything irreversible. So today one of my techs labels a blood tube before getting approval from the owner. I know it's not a big deal, but we had just talked about it on Monday. So I mention to the tech that we had just discussed this and we need to make sure to get owner approval before doing things like that. She then tells me "Well I knew the owner would want to go for it" then COMPLETELY changes her story while talking to me and said she labeled it after getting approval. I know for a fact that she had prelabeled it. This was just a blood tube, but we have lost snap tests, vaccines, etc because she think she's being helpful and I wanted to kind of stay on top of it. The bigger issue is the lying to me. I just don't tolerate that. people make mistakes, accidents happen. This specific tech keeps trying to hide her mistakes and I think I'm going to have to let her go.

Lying and insubordination are like my biggest pet peeves, and think those should be 2-3 strikes and you're toast deals. If really bad, single offense even. I have one tech that keeps toeing that line, and I've gotten tude when trying to have a frank discussion... So as much as I don't want to, that whole disciplinary action chain may need to be initiated. Ugh. At least all I have to do is tattle. I can't imagine ever needing to be an owner to need to deal with it

 

[dyachei]

Lying and insubordination are like my biggest pet peeves, and think those should be 2-3 strikes and you're toast deals. If really bad, single offense even. I have one tech that keeps toeing that line, and I've gotten tude when trying to have a frank discussion... So as much as I don't want to, that whole disciplinary action chain may need to be initiated. Ugh. At least all I have to do is tattle. I can't imagine ever needing to be an owner to need to deal with it

this isn't the first time. But I can't make a unilateral decision. One of the other times, she opened a 4dx and the owner had only approved a hw only ELISA (we carry both). Instead of admitting her mistake and just using the test, she tried to tape it closed. When I saw the taped package the next day I asked if anyone knew anything about it. She said no, she had no idea. So I was like, well this can't happen again and we needed to toss the test. Only after a little while longer did she admit it was her.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

chemical restraint is still a type of restraint. And is sometimes VERY necessary. We had an owner with an aggressive rottie. We ended up giving her alprazolam, gabapentin, and an adaptil collar before she came in for anything and then would have the owner muzzle if they felt like they could. If not we would use restraint tools and give IM sedation. The owner understood but we explained anyway that it was for her safety, our safety, and the dog's safety. And it's all true.

Unrelated rant: I have very few things I just don't tolerate at all. We've been having issues with the techs opening tests/medications/etc before an owner has approved it so we discussed it in detail at the team meeting. We said again and again that techs should gather, but not do anything irreversible. So today one of my techs labels a blood tube before getting approval from the owner. I know it's not a big deal, but we had just talked about it on Monday. So I mention to the tech that we had just discussed this and we need to make sure to get owner approval before doing things like that. She then tells me "Well I knew the owner would want to go for it" then COMPLETELY changes her story while talking to me and said she labeled it after getting approval. I know for a fact that she had prelabeled it. This was just a blood tube, but we have lost snap tests, vaccines, etc because she think she's being helpful and I wanted to kind of stay on top of it. The bigger issue is the lying to me. I just don't tolerate that. people make mistakes, accidents happen. This specific tech keeps trying to hide her mistakes and I think I'm going to have to let her go.

I think she meant that if a pet needed medical care, a hospital should be able to provide it under their terms. NOT the hospital should have to deal with whatever ****head the dog is being under the owner's terms.

I have had situations where dogs come in really awful that I've refused because I felt it was unsafe and did not feel comfortable with the owner trying to muzzle. If the owner gets mauled on my watch, I am liable. In those cases, I tell the owner the dog is not allowed in the clinic for anything other than euthanasia unless the owner can safely and appropriately basket muzzle the dog prior to bringing the dog in AND if needed the dog would be sedated. If it is unsafe for the owner to muzzle at home, I urge them to euthanize and if they're unwilling, have them sign that they understand their dog is dangerous or at least let them know that I am marking in the record that this dog is dangerous and that it should be euthanized. I tell them that the only other person who should ever be consulted on the dangerous dog is a veterinary behaviorist, but depending on the situation even that is ill-advised sometimes.

If that makes the owner dislike me, I don't care. They can put staff at another hospital at risk if they so choose, but they can't put me or my staff at further risk. If a dog truly needs medical care, and the owner can manage the behavior at home, I don't mind treating ONLY as long as they will play the game according to our rules.

Oh, I know. That's why I said that you can't use up your options if the owner isn't cooperative. I'm sure we've all met a few who wouldn't allow sedation of their pet. I disagree with the idea that no matter what, a hospital should provide care. That line has to be drawn, especially with an uncooperative client. I totally agree, if the client is unhappy, they can go elsewhere. Not all business owners like to lose a client though, even if it is just a drop in the bucket at the end of the day. There are vets out there that cling onto every penny of income.

I'm no business owner, but have you tried describing how much money has been burned by wasting expensive tests/supplies like that? Sort of unrelated, but I had a boss that was trying to boost revenue, so she told us at a team meating that she wanted us to push Lean Treats, Pill Pockets, etc. Her encouragement was that with more revenue, our holiday bonuses could go up and raises could happen. Maybe it's not the best method, but it at least got everyone's ears perked up. As for being dishonest, that's a different story

 

[dyachei]

Oh, I know. That's why I said that you can't use up your options if the owner isn't cooperative. I'm sure we've all met a few who wouldn't allow sedation of their pet. I disagree with the idea that no matter what, a hospital should provide care. That line has to be drawn, especially with an uncooperative client. I totally agree, if the client is unhappy, they can go elsewhere. Not all business owners like to lose a client though, even if it is just a drop in the bucket at the end of the day. There are vets out there that cling onto every penny of income.

I'm no business owner, but have you tried describing how much money has been burned by wasting expensive tests/supplies like that? Sort of unrelated, but I had a boss that was trying to boost revenue, so she told us at a team meating that she wanted us to push Lean Treats, Pill Pockets, etc. Her encouragement was that with more revenue, our holiday bonuses could go up and raises could happen. Maybe it's not the best method, but it at least got everyone's ears perked up. As for being dishonest, that's a different story

Well, we have an obligation to treat emergencies regardless.

And of course I've tried reasoning with her. She never thinks about consequences to her actions.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

Well, we have an obligation to treat emergencies regardless.

And of course I've tried reasoning with her. She never thinks about consequences to her actions.

At that point, this person almost would need someone watching her and stopping her to say "Okay, now what do you think will happen if you do that?" I don't mean to sound rude but I don't see why your staff would have started doing that anyways. We used to pre-label blood tubes just to eliminate the chance of putting unlabeled tubes in the centrifuge and then getting them mixed up, but that can be corrected with white out should someone change their mind (and we still didn't do that until at least asking the owner what they wanted). To pre-open tests, draw up vaccines, etc. doesn't make sense to me, especially since those aren't too time consuming.

 

[dyachei]

At that point, this person almost would need someone watching her and stopping her to say "Okay, now what do you think will happen if you do that?" I don't mean to sound rude but I don't see why your staff would have started doing that anyways. We used to pre-label blood tubes just to eliminate the chance of putting unlabeled tubes in the centrifuge and then getting them mixed up, but that can be corrected with white out should someone change their mind (and we still didn't do that until at least asking the owner what they wanted). To pre-open tests, draw up vaccines, etc. doesn't make sense to me, especially since those aren't too time consuming.

she has problems prioritizing. I had to tell her 2-3 times today that (while everyone else was in the middle of things - I was fixing the chem machine, office manager was helping a client with a med, other tech was in a room) to either start notes or start cleaning. She retorted that she had taken out half the trash. I told her there's way more to clean than just trash and to go start it. she was literally standing there doing nothing.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

she has problems prioritizing. I had to tell her 2-3 times today that (while everyone else was in the middle of things - I was fixing the chem machine, office manager was helping a client with a med, other tech was in a room) to either start notes or start cleaning. She retorted that she had taken out half the trash. I told her there's way more to clean than just trash and to go start it. she was literally standing there doing nothing.

If you can lean, you can clean! It's not your job to train people to have common sense or to babysit, I'm sorry you have to deal with this!

 

[dyachei]

If you can lean, you can clean! It's not your job to train people to have common sense or to babysit, I'm sorry you have to deal with this!

no, it's not. What's most frustrating is that she seems to have regressed. Every step forward comes with 2 steps back.

 

[Pugsforlove2014]

This crap going on in Paris right now, just absolutely staggering. France has already been a country that doesn't tolerate muslims well, and if this is tied to anything relating to ISIS, well it's going to get a lot worse now. That goes the same for all of the other European countries as well, especially at a time when all of the refugees are coming seeking shelter.

 

[WildZoo]

Utk didn't require it prior to matriculation when I was there. But we did have to have it prior to clinics

They require it now and thankfully Tricare covers it for people in "high risk" fields. Yay free rabies vax.

 

[WildZoo]

I've been clocked upside the head by flailing dog heads more often than I can count.

Dogs with flailing heads are the worst. We had one so bad that we had to restrain her in lateral on the floor and she ended up just slamming her head into the ground instead. Turned out she would stand still and let you do whatever with zero restraint (other than a leash of course).