Sexual harassment from interviewer

[gyngyn]

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[Chelsea FC]

Nice strawman

I*

 

[Chelsea FC]

He is saying things people do when drunk shouldn't be held against him .. I did said in my comment it was sort of a hyperbole

 

[704]

Definitely wouldn't have gotten into med school if he was reported. I'm sorry this happened to you and I hope it comes back to bite him. If you kill someone while your drunk it is still murder. That interview must have been terrible.

 

[C02232934]

Why the hell are you making excuses for this guy? Does it matter if he had too much to drink and "lost control" and sexually assaulted her? Most guys I know don't do that when they get drunk. This is not normal behaviour and certainly not excusable.
Op you should report him

Nobody is "making excuses" for the guy. What we are questioning is whether or not the punishment of having his life ruined is in proportion to the crime of groping.

 

[md-2020]

Dear Rapist-Apologist

He is saying things people do when drunk shouldn't be held against him

No, that's not at all what I was saying.

I took the prerogative to acquiesce to the other voices on here. I'd appreciate if you guys could, in true-SDN fashion, refrain from initiating the selective quoting and misconstruing of my beliefs.

 

[efle]

It's not really a straw man though

I don't think it's fair to try and ruin someones life based on the events of one evening that was successfully halted

It's cool because he only repeatedly molested you, stopped before anything "substantive" happened...I dunno but if this happened to my girlfriend or mother or sister (and I only imagine it's worse for daughter) I'd want to see some serious punishment

You don't know what he is actually like.
I'm guessing alcohol was also involved.

Excused b/cus he's only like this when he's dis-inhibited, normally he would never

this happens on a weekly basis at pretty much every college and in scenarios where nothing substantive happened

Nothing to see here people just your typical run of the mill sexual assault on campus

 

[Glazedonutlove]

Nobody is "making excuses" for the guy. What we are questioning is whether or not the punishment of having his life ruined is in proportion to the crime of groping.

Really? What about saying he was drunk and this literally happens everywhere so it's not a big deal? Sounds like excuses for his behaviour to me. I don't understand why people are saying op would ruin his life. HE did this and risked ruining his own life. Op has nothing to feel guilty about.

 

[efle]

And I don't think context makes any of those statements better

 

[Fastrada]

Nobody is "making excuses" for the guy. What we are questioning is whether or not the punishment of having his life ruined is in proportion to the crime of groping.

The point is that the type of person who would sexually assault someone at a party is the type who could potentially sexually assault patients

 

[Chelsea FC]

No, that's not at all what I was saying.

I took the prerogative to acquiesce to the other voices on here. I'd appreciate if you guys could, in true-SDN fashion, refrain from initiating the selective quoting and misconstruing of my beliefs.

Okay man but when you say it happens all the time , which doesnt really have much bearing if she should report or not seems like you are just brushing it off as a normal occurrence of drunken guys .. So I think how you worded it left yourself open for interpretation of a underlying apologist tone ... But If this is not where u coming from fine . Lets get back on topic what should OP do ?

 

[Ochemphd]

No, that's not at all what I was saying.

I took the prerogative to acquiesce to the other voices on here. I'd appreciate if you guys could, in true-SDN fashion, refrain from initiating the selective quoting and misconstruing of my beliefs.

Please do not shake off these reactions as typical sdn. You demonstrated a very misguided mindset in a series of posts and would benefit from spending some time thinking about why you might be getting these kind of reactions. I implore you to not laugh this off.

 

[C02232934]

The point is that the type of person who would sexually assault someone at a party is the type who could potentially sexually assault patients

You have to be kidding me. So because a drunk guy groped a girl at a party (which is completely WRONG) he will sexually assault his patients?!

 

[efle]

You have to be kidding me. So because a drunk guy groped a girl at a party (which is completely WRONG) he will sexually assault his patients?!

You've got to be kidding me, just because a student under a lot of pressure cheated on his finals he will be a dishonest doctor?!

See? It's the greatly increased risk not the certainty that's an issue.

 

[Glazedonutlove]

No, that's not at all what I was saying.

I took the prerogative to acquiesce to the other voices on here. I'd appreciate if you guys could, in true-SDN fashion, refrain from initiating the selective quoting and misconstruing of my beliefs.

dude I'm sorry but your beliefs are full of ****. How are you okay with groping and trying to force someone to kiss you? Does it not matter to you until a certain line is crossed?

 

[Chelsea FC]

It's not really a straw man though



It's cool because he only repeatedly molested you, stopped before anything "substantive" happened...I dunno but if this happened to my girlfriend or mother or sister (and I only imagine it's worse for daughter) I'd want to see some serious punishment



Excused b/cus he's only like this when he's dis-inhibited, normally he would never



Nothing to see here people just your typical run of the mill sexual assault on campus

Exactly, his comments and tone says its wrong which to his credit he did state. But then he turns around and say it happens all the time and he was probably drunk trying to justify it. When I get drunk i recite anime intros I dont harass girls

 

[Lawpy]

It's not really a straw man though



It's cool because he only repeatedly molested you, stopped before anything "substantive" happened...I dunno but if this happened to my girlfriend or mother or sister (and I only imagine it's worse for daughter) I'd want to see some serious punishment



Excused b/cus he's only like this when he's dis-inhibited, normally he would never



Nothing to see here people just your typical run of the mill sexual assault on campus

He is saying things people do when drunk shouldn't be held against him .. I did said in my comment it was sort of a hyperbole

Just when i tried to give a slight defense for @md-2020, i got shot down in flames with selected posts. You win.

 

[efle]

dude I'm sorry but your beliefs are full of ****. How are you okay with groping and trying to force someone to kiss you? Does it not matter to you until a certain line is crossed?

And the guy is in a serious relationship. Like are you ****ing kidding me? @md-2020 you'd feel this way if you found out someone had done it to your SO?

 

[Fastrada]

You have to be kidding me. So because a drunk guy groped a girl at a party (which is completely WRONG) he will sexually assault his patients?!

It doesn't necessarily mean he will assault a patient, but it does show a concerning amount of unethical decision making and lack of self-control. Like the thread talking about what health care jobs people who were in jail could hold: the concern is with the person's ethics.

And I assure you, most people who sexually assault someone do not only do it once

Edit: And it's the same with cheating. The problem isn'the so much the cheating as it is the fact that it calls into question that person'so ethical system. Someone with questionable ethics shouldn't be given the power of a physician

 

[Chelsea FC]

Just when i tried to give a slight defense for @md-2020, i got shot down in flames with selected posts. You win.

Its not selected posts , he was making a case and we are showing how his words come across .. I do not hold it against him he might not notice how he is sounding

 

[C02232934]

You've got to be kidding me, just because a student under a lot of pressure cheated on his finals he will be a dishonest doctor?!

See? It's the greatly increased risk not the certainty that's an issue.

Is it a great enough risk to warrant pulling the guy out of med school? I seriously doubt it. Again it's wrong, but it doesn't mean that person will go around raping unconscious patients. Do you guys even hear yourselves?

 

[C02232934]

Its not selected posts , he was making a case and we are showing how his words come across .. I do not hold it against him he might not notice how he is sounding

There really is no point in you endlessly debating the intention of his comments.

 

[md-2020]

Exactly, his comments and tone says its wrong which to his credit he did state. But then he turns around and say it happens all the time and he was probably drunk trying to justify it. When I get drunk i recite anime intros I dont harass girls

dude I'm sorry but your beliefs are full of ****. How are you okay with groping and trying to force someone to kiss you? Does it not matter to you until a certain line is crossed?

Please do not shake off these reactions as typical sdn. You demonstrated a very misguided mindset in a series of posts and would benefit from spending some time thinking about why you might be getting these kind of reactions. I implore you to not laugh this off.

And the guy is in a serious relationship. Like are you ****ing kidding me? @md-2020 you'd feel this way if you found out someone had done it to your SO?

NO!


Where in ANY OF MY POSTS DID I SAY THIS WAS OK??? I prefaced every single one of my posts with my personal objections to the dude's actions.

 

[Lawpy]

Its not selected posts , he was making a case and we are showing how his words come across .. I do not hold it against him he might not notice how he is sounding

I will say one (hopefully valid) thing though. I think people are making a slippery slope argument by saying that just because the student interviewer assaulted OP, he will assault his future patients. That is a flawed and dangerous assertion.

 

[Ovid]

Ignoring the ongoing debate happening on this post, OP has to tell someone at the school. Even if she doesn't mention being sexually assaulted by a student, she needs to tell someone that she has a history with her student interviewer. That's the kind of thing he should have disclosed.

This may prevent him from sabotaging her, and it prevents her from having to disclose the sexual assault. If she were my sister or wife, though, I'd advise her to tell her story to anyone that would listen. Sexual assault is never okay.

 

[704]

Is it a great enough risk to warrant pulling the guy out of med school? I seriously doubt it. Again it's wrong, but it doesn't mean that person will go around raping unconscious patients. Do you guys even hear yourselves?

Do you hear yourself? Would you want a physician who you knew sexually assaulted someone in the past? THIS IS INSANE.

 

[Glazedonutlove]

Is it a great enough risk to warrant pulling the guy out of med school? I seriously doubt it. Again it's wrong, but it doesn't mean that person will go around raping unconscious patients. Do you guys even hear yourselves?

have you asked yourself why the consequences are this serious? Because no patient wants a doctor with a history like this! And they have a good reason not to.
And for the last time, I don't see how this is a question of "is op ruining is life." He ruined his own life.

 

[pageantry]

In my experience, one of the most traumatizing things about this kind of experience is having to understand over and over again that I, as a woman, am powerless. I can do nothing about the assault that anyone would believe, or validate. I will be told that I am to blame for where I was, what I consumed, or how I dressed, that I should be ashamed because I didn't bring it up sooner, that I should be careful *I* don't ruin an assh*le's life.

OP, as someone who has also been assaulted, the thing that has hurt me most in life has been my choice to accept the conditions of powerlessness. I hope you do not. It sounds like you won't.

And that said, there are many ways to take back your power. I have a doctor ex-bf who is a massive drug addict and was very abusive to me and others. I have not reported him. I know by the laws of his state he would go to jail and lose his license. But, right or wrong, i see in him a doctor who is loved by his patients and is hurting. I feel the world would be worse with him in jail. I don't know if I could live with myself knowing I'd made that call. I chose to focus my energy after our relationship onto becoming the doctor I think he ought to be.

It's not the right choice. It might not even be ethical. Some lives deserve to be ruined. Maybe my ex-bf's too. Sometimes I regret it when I remember the ways he robbed me of power when I was weak, but mostly I look at how I finally took my power back, and I don't regret making my own choice about the matter.

I just want to share that. You should do what you feel is right, and I would support it 110% if you turned him in, did it anonymously, or just asked for a new interview. But I also wouldn't pressure you to turn him in, because that's not fair to you either. You didn't ask for any of this. So do what lets you breathe more easily, at the end of the day. That ease is what he took from you. Take that back.

 

[Chelsea FC]

I will do say one (hopefully valid) thing though. I think people are making a slippery slope argument by saying that just because the student interviewer assaulted OP, he will assault his future patients. That is a flawed and dangerous assertion.

I dont have the research in front of me right now so you can disregard this if you want . But most guys who do sexual assault is a small population but they are normally repeated offenders

 

[Lawpy]

I dont have the research in front of me right now so you can disregard this if you want . But most guys who do sexual assault is a small population but they are normally repeated offenders

I mentioned previously that OP should proceed with the report against the student interviewer. But i was just cautioning against the slippery slope argument being made, since that leads to misinterpretations and dangerous claims. OP made a similar flawed argument in her post and i discourage her from saying such a thing in her report

 

[Glazedonutlove]

NO!


Where in ANY OF MY POSTS DID I SAY THIS WAS OK??? I prefaced every single one of my posts with my personal objections to the dude's actions.

I believe you. But you are wrong about making excuses for his behaviour and saying op is "ruining his life" when he did this to himself or claimed "this is more common than studying on my campus" as if that excuses any disturbing behaviour. If you notice in ops post, she felt angry after this happened so it's not just about the physical assault but also the emotional aspect of it.

 

[wasteofspace323]

Why is it a dui to drink then drive, but you're the victim of rape when you drink and copulate?

Can I be held accountable for drunk actions or not?

 

[Chelsea FC]

I mentioned previously that OP should proceed with the report against the student interviewer. But i was just cautioning against the slippery slope argument being made, since that leads to misinterpretations and dangerous claims. OP made a similar flawed argument in her post and i discourage her from saying such a thing in her report

But I am trying to say this slippery slope argument have factual bases . Guys who assault will more than likely to keep on doing it. So as a person who is in a position of power that should be a worrying proposition

 

[virtuos locust]

I guess I'm the only one convinced that this is a troll thread.

 

[Chelsea FC]

Why is it a dui to drink then drive, but you're the victim of rape when you drink and copulate?

Can I be held accountable for drunk actions or not?

provocateur!

 

[Godspeedyou]

I guess I'm the only one convinced that this is a troll thread.

You sound awfully judgmental. Why don't you take a seat and check your privilege?

 

[pageantry]

I guess I'm the only one convinced that this is a troll thread.

On the bright side, it's allowed some pretty horrifying attitudes in the pre-medical community to bob to the surface.

 

[Lawpy]

But I am trying to say this slippery slope argument have factual bases . Guys who assault will more than likely to keep on doing it. So as a person who is in a position of power that should be a worrying proposition

Preventive measures are always a good thing, but given the context of the incident, the student interviewer acted like a drunk idiot and went out of line. It's unsound to make a dangerous claim that the student interviewer is likely to engage in similar acts in the future (even when studies show it). People do change over time. For all we know, the student interviewer realized his mistake later on and effectively swore to prevent from engaging in any felonious acts. Too many factors here.

 

[Chelsea FC]

Preventive measures are always a good thing, but given the context of the incident, the student interviewer acted like a drunk idiot and went out of line. It's unsound to make a dangerous claim that the student interviewer is likely to engage in similar acts in the future (even when studies show it). People do change over time. For all we know, the student interviewer realized his mistake later on and effectively swore to prevent from engaging in any felonious acts. Too many factors here.

A drunken fool yells and dances on a table ... Lets not try to downplay what he did he is a sexual assaulter

 

[Glazedonutlove]

Preventive measures are always a good thing, but given the context of the incident, the student interviewer acted like a drunk idiot and went out of line. It's unsound to make a dangerous claim that the student interviewer is likely to engage in similar acts in the future (even when studies show it). People do change over time. For all we know, the student interviewer realized his mistake later on and effectively swore to prevent from engaging in any felonious acts. Too many factors here.

Stop calling him a drunk idiot and trying to lighten what he did. And we don't know anything. For all we know he could have assaulted others when being a "drunk idiot." My point is it doesn't matter what he did or didn't do to others. We are solely talking about what he did to op and how she feels about this. The right thing to do, if she feels comfortable, is to report this

 

[Chelsea FC]

okay maybe im just looking at it through different shades .. I just dont see that as a normal drunken behavior, it looks like something deep down . Thats the last thing I have to comment on .. LOL i like how @md-2020 isnt defending his comments but liking @Lawper ones .

 

[deleted480308]

You sound awfully judgmental. Why don't you take a seat and check your privilege?

gotta say "check your privilege" is one of the dumbest things that anyone types these days.....take the time and articulate your point instead of resorting to a trite cliche' with no valid meaning

 

[ZedsDed]

okay maybe im just looking at it through different shades .. I just dont see that as a normal drunken behavior, it looks like something deep down . Thats the last thing I have to comment on .. LOL i like how @md-2020 isnt defending his comments but liking @Lawper ones .

He asked to not be included in the conversation. Maybe you should respect that and stop tagging/quoting him? Just saying.

 

[Lawpy]

A drunken fool yells and dances on a table ... Lets not try to downplay what he did he is a sexual assaulter

I'm not downplaying anything. I'm just dismissing the assertion that the student interviewer will necessarily endanger his future patients just because of an idiotic thing that happened few years ago.

Stop calling him a drunk idiot and trying to lighten what he did. And we don't know anything. For all we know he could have assaulted others when being a "drunk idiot." My point is it doesn't matter what he did or didn't do to others. We are solely talking about what he did to op and how she feels about this. The right thing to do, if she feels comfortable, is to report this

And I agree that OP should file the report. But that doesn't mean the student interviewer will be a danger to future patients.

okay maybe im just looking at it through different shades .. I just dont see that as a normal drunken behavior, it looks like something deep down . Thats the last thing I have to comment on .. LOL i like how @md-2020 isnt defending his comments but liking @Lawper ones .

I'm just saying two things.

1. OP should file the report. It's sexual assault with several witnesses seeing. Even the adcoms here agreed it's the best decision.
2. Just because the student interviewer committed a criminal act in the past doesn't make him prone to commit future criminal acts in the future. Yes there can be several reports on the matter, but such a slippery slope argument is inherently flawed and dangerous.

gotta say "check your privilege" is one of the dumbest things that anyone types these days.....take the time and articulate your point instead of resorting to a trite cliche' with no valid meaning

He's being sarcastic.

See? It's the greatly increased risk not the certainty that's an issue.

Probably the best way to put it. Slippery slope arguments emphasize certainty, while research reports emphasize risk. And I support OP, schools/adcoms etc. taking preventive, risk-minimizing measures where necessary.

 

[W19]

He was your brother's friend and you did not know that he was a med student...

And a bunch of people were there and no one intervened!

 

[NotYou20]

NO!


Where in ANY OF MY POSTS DID I SAY THIS WAS OK??? I prefaced every single one of my posts with my personal objections to the dude's actions.

...And then claimed that op doing something about it would (unjustly) ruin his life. You are arguing for him not facing the consequences of his actions and most of us strongly disagree with that.

 

[Chelsea FC]

He asked to not be included in the conversation. Maybe you should respect that and stop tagging/quoting him? Just saying.

The last time he posted he was defending his comments and this has nothing to do about respect he is defending his questionable comments so I have every right to ask him why he backed down . Did he have a change of heart ? would be the first time that happened on SDN. . Just saying is another one of those stupid cliches

 

[Fastrada]

I'm not downplaying anything. I'm just dismissing the assertion that the student interviewer will necessarily endanger his future patients just because of an idiotic thing that happened few years ago.



And I agree that OP should file the report. But that doesn't mean the student interviewer will be a danger to future patients.



I'm just saying two things.

1. OP should file the report. It's sexual assault with several witnesses seeing. Even the adcoms here agreed it's the best decision.
2. Just because the student interviewer committed a criminal act in the past doesn't make him prone to commit future criminal acts in the future. Yes there can be several reports on the matter, but such a slippery slope argument is inherently flawed and dangerous.



He's being sarcastic.



Probably the best way to put it. Slippery slope arguments emphasize certainty, while research reports emphasize risk. And I support OP, schools/adcoms etc. taking preventive, risk-minimizing measures where necessary.

I'm sorry if you answered this before, but if you think the OP should report the interviewer
, how do you think the med school should respond?

 

[ivorypearls]

Dear Rapist-Apologist,

Just because injustice is common doesn't make it right. Sounds like this medical student is doing his fair share of ruining other people's lives, and this incident may affect not only OP's chances of admission, but having him in a position of authority/power has also re-traumatized her. This A-hole may do this to other fellow students (whether alcohol is involved or not), peers, friends, sisters, neighbors, and women and teens.

Oh and his patients.

Please stop normalizing and excusing sexual assault. Think about if you had a sister. Or a daughter. Cousin. Or niece. One in four women has to deal with this nonsense at least once in her lifetime and maybe even more women are out there because few speak up, because people like you think it's normal.

Signed,

A survivor

Wow... that is not what he is saying or implying at all. I am sorry about the circumstances that happened to you, but calling someone out on being a "Rapist-apologist" is unwarranted and frankly too extreme. This goes for the other comments above making similar accusations (too many to respond to)

 

[wavvvvvves123]

NO!


Where in ANY OF MY POSTS DID I SAY THIS WAS OK??? I prefaced every single one of my posts with my personal objections to the dude's actions.

you were defending this person by saying **** like "are you familiar with the effects of alcohol?" "for all you know he could be a very fine person" "happens at college campuses all the time" "this isnt worth ruining his life over" etc etc. even if you physically typed out "ok guys i dont agree with this" you're making several excuses for this person's behavior.