STEP 1 scores (compilation...please help)

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ImmunoANT said:
I know lots of schools take students' words seriously but shortening the curriculum to 1.5 yr is a big thing. I doubt it'd happen right away.

Heh. It was sort of a joke (relating UCSD's unwillingness to deviate from the classical cirriculum along with my out of this world persuasion skills.) It'd be interesting to see what would happen if you pitted an institution that never says yes against someone that can't be said no to. It'd be like the whole "if an unstoppable force met an inpenetrable/immovable wall, what would happen" scenario: mind-boggling.

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Unless the individual schools announce publicly the average STep 1 scores, EVERY SINGLE average that bas been listed in this forum is PURE SPECULATION. There's no way in hell that any school has a 240 something average... I'm pretty doubtful that there's more than three or four schools w/ an average above 230... For every school w/ an average above 230, there's a school w/ an average below 200 which starts to creep into borderline failing territory.... If you guys want a compilation of average step one scores, you should include a link where one can find reliable proof of the actual scores (which I doubt will ever be found)...
 
babinski bob said:
Unless the individual schools announce publicly the average STep 1 scores, EVERY SINGLE average that bas been listed in this forum is PURE SPECULATION. There's no way in hell that any school has a 240 something average... I'm pretty doubtful that there's more than three or four schools w/ an average above 230... For every school w/ an average above 230, there's a school w/ an average below 200 which starts to creep into borderline failing territory.... If you guys want a compilation of average step one scores, you should include a link where one can find reliable proof of the actual scores (which I doubt will ever be found)...

For what it's worth, there are quite a few schools that do give our their STEP 1 scores at interviews.
 
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babinski bob said:
For every school w/ an average above 230, there's a school w/ an average below 200 which starts to creep into borderline failing territory....

That's not true. You could have a school with an average of 230, and then three schools with an average of 210, 210 and 210, getting an overall average of 215. That's right next to the national average, is it not?
 
Or if the school had only 90 students but a 230 average, if another school had 180 students and a 200 average, the average of the averages would be 210. (Right?... it's been a while since I did any 'rithmetic) :D
 
babinski bob said:
Unless the individual schools announce publicly the average STep 1 scores, EVERY SINGLE average that bas been listed in this forum is PURE SPECULATION. There's no way in hell that any school has a 240 something average... I'm pretty doubtful that there's more than three or four schools w/ an average above 230... For every school w/ an average above 230, there's a school w/ an average below 200 which starts to creep into borderline failing territory.... If you guys want a compilation of average step one scores, you should include a link where one can find reliable proof of the actual scores (which I doubt will ever be found)...

http://cpmcnet.columbia.edu/dept/ps/affairs/third.html

this is the link I got the P&S scores from. Scroll all the way to the bottom.
 
With no oversight, schools can manipulate numbers as they wish. Perhaps these numbers are so high because they only count those students who are not retaking the test? I'm sure there are a lot of ways schools can manipulate the data to make themselves look better. And let's face it, academia admissions and administration aren't the most honest folks in the world.
 
Is ~ 230 average that high? I am ignorant regarding board scores as I'm at least 2 yrs away from taking that.
 
missbonnie said:
Is ~ 230 average that high? I am ignorant regarding board scores as I'm at least 2 yrs away from taking that.

It is in the sense that the average score for med schools is around 215.
Think of a 215 on step 1 as equivalent to a 30 on the MCAT. A 230 would be about 0.7 STDevs above the mean, so probably somewhere equivalent to a 32-33 on the MCAT.

Not surprisingly, if the average MCAT at a school is 35, then you would expect a high Step 1 average, probably in the 240 range...
 
I wouldn't be surprised if WashU's average was somewhere at 240+. The MCAT average at their school was 36.something so I'd expect a 240 average on step I.
 
This is supposedly the national distribution of scores.

usmle-step-1-scores.jpg



Of course, everyone says they are better than the national average.

http://www.med.ufl.edu/oea/cc/romrell5.html


Either we have schools fudging the data or else there are a few incredibly mediocre schools bringing down the national average. Maybe both.
 
Don't forget the carrib med and other foreign schools. They've got like 300+ students per class that score below avg.

I somehow doubt schools would lie about their exact score (ie MSSM = 228). They may generalize like "above average" and get away with it with an avg of 216.1 or something. To lie outright that your school has 218 when it really has a 210 is just blatant and I doubt schools would try it.

230 is high but you probably need even higher for competitive matches.
 
If many score in the 260s and a few score in the 270s, that would definitely skew the average up. If you even had just one of two students scoring 280-300, that would throw it off altogether. That said, I agree that 242 sounds suspicious.

I think we're seeing a fairly accurate representation here, though. We're getting a list from schools that actually report their Step I average - a good sign that their scores are higher than the nationwide average. So they're going to be high, because schools with not-so-high averages aren't going to publicize them too much. As for a rumor mill, yeah, this thread has a little bit of that. But that's probably because most of the schools are not putting it out there themselves, like they should, and we have to resort to hearsay to get some kind of handle.
 
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I think some schools deliberately mislead applicants. (i.e. "Our school has the highest *cough* pass rates *cough* on the boards in the nation")
 
Well, highest pass rates and highest average scores aren't necessarily the same. A school could have all their students just barely pass and have a 100% pass rate. But I see what you're saying - and it would suck of schools to do that, after they put such an emphasis on our honesty.
 
Well, there are about 3 schools I can name off the top of my head where students came away from their interviews swearing that they heard that the school had the top score in the nation (UCI, UCSD, and Vandy)
 
UCI??? Seriously?

I interviewed at Vanderbilt and don't remember them mentioning their board scores either way... weird that they'd say they had the top score in the country. I would just put my high score out there and leave it at that... seems like you can get into trouble when you get into comparisons.
 
BaylorLion said:
UCI??? Seriously?

Out of all the schools I know, UCI has their curriculum set up so that thier students would get the highest average board scores. They are Honors/Pass/Fail, so that you would get the competition from the majority of the class, even the slackers. They take the shelf exams, which are written by the same people who brought you the boards (this also would make sure they are studying the stuff that is most tested) Now, if they gave their students a ton of time to study and gave $$$ to the top scorers, they could be up there.
 
I gotta say, I'm really impressed with my alma mater's med school. They're the only ones I know of that make their USMLE scores available over the web.

http://cpmcnet.columbia.edu/dept/ps/affairs/third.html

At the bottom of the page. Sheesh. Why can't some company just compile the list? Seriously - USNews would make a fortune if they could get their hands on this info. And it makes more sense to make one's decision based on this than it does to make it on residency matches.
 
Because match lists can vary strongly with a class' interests and preferences. For example, let's say school X doesn't match anyone in a given year at residency program Y. That doesn't necessarily mean that school X's students couldn't match at residency program Y - it could mean no X students wanted to go to Y, for whatever reason. The average USMLE gives you an idea of where school X's students score - which'll give you some idea of what you could expect to score if you were an average student at X.

That said, neither are the best ways to pick a medical school. Your USMLE score is mostly a product of your own intelligence and hard work. That said, I think curriculum and teaching do play a role, and I think USMLE scores hint at that better than average MCAT and GPA of incoming students, research money, or reputational surveys.
 
BaylorLion said:
Because match lists can vary strongly with a class' interests and preferences. For example, let's say school X doesn't match anyone in a given year at residency program Y. That doesn't necessarily mean that school X's students couldn't match at residency program Y - it could mean no X students wanted to go to Y, for whatever reason. The average USMLE gives you an idea of where school X's students score - which'll give you some idea of what you could expect to score if you were an average student at X.

That said, neither are the best ways to pick a medical school. Your USMLE score is mostly a product of your own intelligence and hard work. That said, I think curriculum and teaching do play a role, and I think USMLE scores hint at that better than average MCAT and GPA of incoming students, research money, or reputational surveys.

That's interesting, because you are basically associating USMLE scores with applicant quality, and that the higher the average USMLE score, the better the school.

To put that in perspective, lets move down a few rungs on the ladder. By similar logic, wouldn't associating MCAT scores with applicant quality, and higher average MCAT scores with better undergraduate schools? Because a lot of people make a huge fuss about the MCAT not being a good indicator of any of those things.

Im not referring to you specifically BaylorLion, but its an interesting way of looking at things in general (and I too have often done this looking at USMLE scores on this thread). I dont know, its kind of interesting that there's a huge stigma about using the MCAT to judge applicant or a school, yet USMLE scores are somehow immune to that gut-check reaction. Maybe its the foreignness of the test to pre-allos? Not sure.
 
No worries. I think the MCAT is a good indicator of undergrad quality and applicant quality - but not necessarily anything to do with the medical school ('cept the fact that the med school's able to attract those highly qualified, and presumably highly-sought, candidates). If I was a high schooler interested in the health professions (and presuming I didn't want to apply to one of the more prestigious BA/MD programs), I'd be interested in seeing what the average MCAT score was at a college, and more interested in that than medical school placement, which again will vary with class interests. For example, my own undergrad probably doesn't place many people at Baylor - because most of them are either in love with New York or have East Coast bias and want to stay on the East Coast (and specifically the Northeast). But if, let's say, the average was a 34.5 (I have no idea what it is in actuality), and I saw that Baylor's average was a 34.5, then I would figure that if I was an average to slightly-above-average student there, I would have a good shot of getting into Baylor. Whereas if School X that I was also considering had an average of 28, I would guess that I'd have to be an exceptional student there to get into Baylor. Could I still get in? Of course - I'm a big believer in individual talent rising above school and all that. But I'd feel more confident that i'd have the atmosphere and resources I needed to achieve what I wanted to achieve.

Maybe the USMLE avoids the stigma because it is pretty much the be-all and end-all of residency placement? You can get around a low MCAT score (or at least an MCAT score that is on the low-end) if your application is strong in other areas. But your performance on the USMLE will pretty much determine your residency - if you score crappily, and you have your heart set on derm? No fancy essays or ECs are going to save you.

I think it's like law school, and if you talk to pre-laws (at least the ones I know), none of them stigmatize the LSAT quite like the MCAT is over here. They'll complain if they don't score highly, but with law school, it's really your LSAT and your GPA (more emphasis on LSAT). I think pre-meds tend to be a little more touchy-feely and don't want to say that a number corresponds to worth. Which it doesn't entirely, but I do think that someone with a higher MCAT score than mine probably brought a better combo of intelligence and diligence to the table and deserves to go to a "better" school than I do. Med students seem to be less sensitive on the issue - most of the ones I've spoken to (barring the MD/PhD's) have told me that USMLE score = residency.

But in all likelihood, the most likely explanation of my curiosity is that I've run out of data to analyze and I'm looking for more. You're a sports stats nut too, you of all people should understand :D
 
Baylor: ~230 something
Case Western: 225
Indiana University: 222
Mayo Medical School: 236, 234, 230 (2003, 2002, 2001)
Mount Sinai: 228
Northwestern: 233, 230 (2003, 2002)
UCSD: 225
UCI: 227 (2002)
University of Iowa: 223 (2002)
University of Florida: 227
University of Pennsylvania: 236, 235 (2003,2002)
University of Pittsburg: 227
University of Southern California: 220
University of Virginia: 227 (SD = 21)
UTMB: 223
UTSW: 226, 228 (2003, 2002)
Vandy: 231-236
 
I wonder why USC's average is so low. :confused:
 
fullefect1 said:
Does anyone know the average scores for top ranked schools like harvard, jhu, Yale?

harvard: 233
jhu: 226
yale: 243
 
BigRedPingpong said:
What about NYU's step 1?

Anyone got that?

NYU: 214
EINSTEIN: 231
MSSM: 226
 
Luck said:
I wonder why USC's average is so low. :confused:

Because the students arn't as smart as everybody else and it was the first year of a new curriculum with a lot of kinks. It will be up higher next year.
 
slackerjock said:

That's funny, because a REAL UCI student just said their average was 227. I wonder who to believe?????
 
slackerjock said:
harvard: 233
jhu: 226
yale: 243

Is that right? I heard yale's was 220 or so b/c of their true pass fail optional test or whatever curriculum.
 
exmike said:
Is that right? I heard yale's was 220 or so b/c of their true pass fail optional test or whatever curriculum.

Like I said earlier on this thread, maybe this one, there is no way I can believe that a school could have above a 240 Board score. I think the score is full of it.
 
slackerjock said:
NYU: 214
EINSTEIN: 231
MSSM: 226
Actually, MSSM is up at 228, and at a steadily increasing trend for the last 5 years. Expect to break 230 this year or next.

Interesting that NYU is significantly lower than other NYC schools like MSSM, Columbia (who's is much lower than I thought it would have been, esp with such a traditional curriculum) and Einstein. I wonder what Weill's average is like...
 
no way uci is 240+, i heard differently as well.
 
Due to the questions surrounding slacker's score reports, those are all being removed from the main list. Also, jalby, I don't post score ranges on the main list.
 
TRUE said:
Due to the questions surrounding slacker's score reports, those are all being removed from the main list. Also, jalby, I don't post score ranges on the main list.
I put ~230 because the post I was copying had a 244, which was BS.
 
With such a strong matchlist, I doubt NYU has a board score below average. At least slacker made it obvious he's providing false board score averages.
 
As has been posted so many times, the USLME STEP 1 scores are not given out, but rather individual schools give them out if they feel like it (usually at interviews). If you remember what the STEP 1 scores were for the particular school you interviewed at, post it on here and we can start making a compilation. Only post if you're absolutely certain of the score...no "I think it was...".

Unless otherwise noted, these are last year's scores:

National Average 216 (SD =23) *2002

Baylor: 235
Case Western: 225
Columbia University: 228, 231, 229 (2003, 2002, 2001)
Indiana University: 222
Mayo Medical School: 236, 234, 230 (2003, 2002, 2001)
Mount Sinai: 228
Northwestern: 233, 230 (2003, 2002)
University of Iowa: 223 (2002)
University of Florida: 227
University of Pennsylvania: 236, 235 (2003,2002)
University of Pittsburg: 227
University of Southern California: 220
University of Virginia: 227 (SD = 21)
UTSA ~216 (I was told by the students that its "about the national average")
UTMB: 223
UTSW: 226, 228 (2003, 2002)
Wash U: 229 (2001)
 
At the NYU interview, they told us their avg step 1 was one SD above the mean. I don't know what the mean was for 2003 or 2004.

Just curious...Does anyone know what the University Of South Florida's avg was?
 
To see the possible effects of the educational quality, it would be nice to compare USMLE scores among schools with equivalent average MCATs/GPAs.
 
Baylor: 235
Case Western: 225
Columbia University: 228, 231, 229 (2003, 2002, 2001)
Indiana University: 222
Mayo Medical School: 236, 234, 230 (2003, 2002, 2001)
Mount Sinai: 228
Northwestern: 233, 230 (2003, 2002)
UMDNJ-NJMS - 220 (2002) - new curriculum now dont know more recent one
UMDNJ-RWJ - 221 (2002)
University of Iowa: 223 (2002)
University of Florida: 227
University of Pennsylvania: 236, 235 (2003,2002)
University of Pittsburg: 227
University of Southern California: 220
University of Virginia: 227 (SD = 21)
UTMB: 223
UTSW: 226, 228 (2003, 2002)
Wash U: 229 (2001)
 
Hmmm... I wonder how it is possible for EVERY single one of these schools to be above average? For the Record RFUMS is 219-220....

I think a lot of these reported scores are complete BS..
 
EctopicFetus said:
Hmmm... I wonder how it is possible for EVERY single one of these schools to be above average? For the Record RFUMS is 219-220....

I think a lot of these reported scores are complete BS..
there are only 20 schools listed....there are 120 or so schools....
 
Anyone got the scores for University of Nebraska and Creighton University?
Thanks
 
Medikit said:
And not everyone who takes the USMLE went to a school in the United States

FYI the score report states that the average is for US Allopathic Medical students.. All I am saying is if these stats are indeed correct there are some schools with very sorry scores..
 
where are you getting these average scores?
websites? a book? MSAR?

i'm looking for a couple schools. can anyone help out?
 
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