STEP 1 scores (compilation...please help)

[VCMM414]

I read somewhere that it's a tie between Yale, Vandy, UCSF, and one other school. Dunno what the score is but it's gotta be higher than Mayo's (236).

Definitely not Yale. I had originally thought that they normally average around the national mean of 219 or so (according to my former roommate, now a Yale med student), and a Yalie on this board confirmed that they score in the low-to-mid 220s.

Can't comment on Vandy and UCSF. Many have commented that Vandy scores one of the highest board scores though. Then again, Mayo's 236 is so much over the national mean that even if Vandy is higher it's probably by a very small margin.

Also, word from a friend at Harvard med is that they usually do not average as high as similarly ranked schools (ie. Hopkins). Don't know what the actual numbers are though.

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[scootad.]

I remember reading that yale had major problems w/ people failing step 1 and low avg board scores a couple years ago what with their optional everything curriculum.

 

[Alexander99]

Does anyone know what the max score is for the Step I? I know it's based on 350 questions (7 sections at 50 questions each) but the score you get isn't just a raw score, is it?

All I know is that a score of 250+ is considered really good and what you should shoot for if you're applying for derm, ortho, etc. Someone threw out 272 as being one of the highest scores. Can you get a 280?

Maybe someone knows exactly how the Step I is scored. I did a search but all they tend to give is what you need to pass, the mean for med schools, and standard deviations but nothing about how they determine what your score is.

 

[ttac]

A person from Drexel Med had the second highest board score last year (2003). I don't remember what the number was though.

I find this somewhat hard to believe... I have it on pretty good authority that the score was 268... and the person also had a 41 on the mcat (from his 'big sib' who I talked to one day).

Clearly it must be insanely difficult to get a 260 (ALOT harder than you would think just based on mean=215, SD=20) if the highest score in the nation was 272.

Of course I'd be happy with a lowly 240... lol

 

[VCMM414]

Does anyone know what the max score is for the Step I? I know it's based on 350 questions (7 sections at 50 questions each) but the score you get isn't just a raw score, is it?

All I know is that a score of 250+ is considered really good and what you should shoot for if you're applying for derm, ortho, etc. Someone threw out 272 as being one of the highest scores. Can you get a 280?

Maybe someone knows exactly how the Step I is scored. I did a search but all they tend to give is what you need to pass, the mean for med schools, and standard deviations but nothing about how they determine what your score is.

Max score is 300.

 

[TongueInCheek]

The USMLE Step I mean score for UT Southwestern is 228 in 2002 and 226 in 2003.

For USC, the 2003 Mean was 220 (the first class with the new curriculum).

 

[pekq]

According to AMSA's med school feedback, Vandy traditinally gets 15-20 above average.

Baylor: 235
Case Western: 225
Indiana University: 222
Mayo Medical School: 236, 234, 230 (2003, 2002, 2001)
Mount Sinai: 228
Northwestern: 233, 230 (2003, 2002)
University of Iowa: 223 (2002)
University of Florida: 227
University of Pennsylvania: 236, 235 (2003,2002)
University of Pittsburg: 227
University of Southern California: 220
University of Virginia: 227 (SD = 21)
UTMB: 223
UTSW: 226, 228 (2003, 2002)
Vandy: 231-236

 

[Alexander99]

Max score is 300.

Is it humanly possible to score a 300? If not, is it super-humanly possible? I wonder if anyone's scored like a 295+ on it.

I think I'll shoot for a 270 (90% correct, right?) If I start studying now. . .

 

[Gleevec]

Baylor: 242
Case Western: 225
Indiana University: 222
Mayo Medical School: 236, 234, 230 (2003, 2002, 2001)
Mount Sinai: 228
Northwestern: 233, 230 (2003, 2002)
University of Iowa: 223 (2002)
University of Florida: 227
University of Pennsylvania: 236, 235 (2003,2002)
University of Pittsburg: 227
University of Southern California: 220
University of Virginia: 227 (SD = 21)
UTMB: 223
UTSW: 226, 228 (2003, 2002)
Vandy: 231-236

 

[Alexander99]

Baylor: 242
Case Western: 225
Indiana University: 222
Mayo Medical School: 236, 234, 230 (2003, 2002, 2001)
Mount Sinai: 228
Northwestern: 233, 230 (2003, 2002)
University of Iowa: 223 (2002)
University of Florida: 227
University of Pennsylvania: 236, 235 (2003,2002)
University of Pittsburg: 227
University of Southern California: 220
University of Virginia: 227 (SD = 21)
UTMB: 223
UTSW: 226, 228 (2003, 2002)
Vandy: 231-236

Damn Baylor's average is high! I wonder what it is about their cirriculum that allows their students to do so well (I don't think their quality of students is any better than U Penn's.)

USC is at the bottom of the list Jalby, what's up? I'm expecting you to single-handedly increase the average to the 230's for 2004.

 

[BaylorLion]

Call me biased, but Baylor and Penn having the highest board scores makes sense to me, because of their 1.5-year curriculum, while Mayo also makes sense because of its small class size and large faculty-to-student ratio (which indicates that Mayo students get a lot of attention).

I keep hearing that Yale (from different people) that has very high and very low averages. Oddly enough, either makes sense to me. You could argue that the System attracts self-motivated learners who are naturally curious and will learn everything; you could also argue that the System encourages some laziness because there's no reason to learn things that aren't clinically relevant (but that might be tested). I think it's opinion, though - it'd be interesting to see the numbers.

Someone told me Baylor's average last year was a 242. I have pride in my school, but I'm finding that one a little hard to swallow still... that said, Vanderbilt and UCSF are great schools, but a 236 is a very high score, and knowing how much attention Mayo students get and how small and intellectually concentrated the class is (fewer people to bring the average down), I'm a little skeptical that a school could have a score higher than them. And at the very least, it's almost certainly not high enough to matter -- they're all scoring high enough to rock the house.

 

[Jalby]

USC is at the bottom of the list Jalby, what's up? I'm expecting you to single-handedly increase the average to the 230's for 2004.

lol. Well, that class was the first of a new curric, so they had tons of problems. They also had like a 3.53 GPA and a 30.4 MCAT (I'm not 100% on that, but somewhere around there) My class should do a ton better. The teachers tell us were smarter than the class before all the time.

 

[BaylorLion]

From what I remember, isn't Penn P/F or H/P/F? I wonder if a 2 or 3-tiered pass/fail system engenders less frantic studying than a 5-tiered one? Suddenly, P is no longer good enough, you're aiming for HP at least. And you don't want MP. Whereas, in a 3-tier system, HP, P and MP are all equivalent.

That's the only thing I can think of. FYI, Baylor's getting rid of P/F in the first semester. It'll be 5-tier "fake" pass fail the whole time - God have mercy on the souls of us Baylorians.

 

[Gleevec]

Damn Baylor's average is high! I wonder what it is about their cirriculum that allows their students to do so well (I don't think their quality of students is any better than U Penn's.)

USC is at the bottom of the list Jalby, what's up? I'm expecting you to single-handedly increase the average to the 230's for 2004.

Baylor and Penn share a 1.5 year curriculum and really high average board scores. Penn's isnt on the list, but its very high 230's low 240's, and could possibly be the highest of ANY school.

Im surprised more schools havent experimented with a 1.5 year curriculum, but then again, if it aint broke dont fix it.

 

[Alexander99]

lol. Well, that class was the first of a new curric, so they had tons of problems. They also had like a 3.53 GPA and a 30.4 MCAT (I'm not 100% on that, but somewhere around there) My class should do a ton better. The teachers tell us were smarter than the class before all the time.

And I wonder how the third year students feel about being considered the "not so smart" class by the faculty. Hehe.

Is the fourth year class' GPA/MCAT/Step I scores even lower than the third year's or was the third year class an anomaly? Those UCSD people never e-mailed me back confirming or denying the whole 1 standard dev above the mean for 2003. I'd imagine UCSD's must be relatively high considering how high our GPA/MCAT averages are every year.

 

[BaylorLion]

UPenn's is on the other list, on which Baylor is listed at 235. At UPenn, it was 235 in 2002, 236 in 2003.

 

[Jalby]

Im surprised more schools havent experimented with a 1.5 year curriculum, but then again, if it aint broke dont fix it.

And getting extremely smart people. Don't forget that.

 

[Alexander99]

Baylor and Penn share a 1.5 year curriculum and really high average board scores. Penn's isnt on the list, but its very high 230's low 240's, and could possibly be the highest of ANY school.

Im surprised more schools havent experimented with a 1.5 year curriculum, but then again, if it aint broke dont fix it.

What do you do in a 1.5 year cirriculum? Spend only a year and a half taking classes and then spend half a year studying for boards? LOL! If that's the case, these averages should be like 240+ considering most schools only allow you to study a few weeks for them.

 

[Jalby]

And I wonder how the third year students feel about being considered the "not so smart" class by the faculty. Hehe.

Is the fourth year class' GPA/MCAT/Step I scores even lower than the third year's or was the third year class an anomaly? Those UCSD people never e-mailed me back confirming or denying the whole 1 standard dev above the mean for 2003. I'd imagine UCSD's must be relatively high considering how high our GPA/MCAT averages are every year.

The fourth year class was lower (3.47) And I don't think they mention to the third year class that we are smarter. They do tell us that the class below us is smarter than us.

As for UCSD, to date the best info is 225. If they had a high score, I'm sure they would have e-mailed you.

 

[BaylorLion]

lol. Well, that class was the first of a new curric, so they had tons of problems. They also had like a 3.53 GPA and a 30.4 MCAT (I'm not 100% on that, but somewhere around there) My class should do a ton better. The teachers tell us were smarter than the class before all the time.

This reminds me of how, in high school, my calc teacher used to always tell my class we were the stupidest class we'd ever had (despite the fact that my class was one of the brightest, if not the brightest, in school history). I think he did it to motivate us to PROVE to him that we were good.

I wonder if this is the same theory, in reverse. Build you guys up so you feel inspired to live up to that reputation and those expectations.

 

[Jalby]

What do you do in a 1.5 year cirriculum?

Some schools are getting close to that. UCSF was done in like March, and we were done then, too. 1.75 years. Maybe all of you aplicants should just take the boards next week. You guys will be in the 300's for sure.

 

[BaylorLion]

And getting extremely smart people. Don't forget that.

Nah. We're not smart. It's all the school, man.

Alexander99 - we start clinicals a 1/2 year earlier, so we have more time in clinic than most.

 

[Jalby]

I wonder if this is the same theory, in reverse. Build you guys up so you feel inspired to live up to that reputation and those expectations.

We do have the stats to back this up. We had a much higher MCAT and GPA than them. And they had ~12 people drop out first year, we had 8, and the class below had none after the first year.

 

[Gleevec]

What do you do in a 1.5 year cirriculum? Spend only a year and a half taking classes and then spend half a year studying for boards? LOL! If that's the case, these averages should be like 240+ considering most schools only allow you to study a few weeks for them.

Nope, 1.5 basic, 2.5 clinical. People generally take 1.5-2 months off (havent heard of anything more than 2 months) for taking Step 1.

We get 10 months off to do more or less what we want when we want. Downside is we have 1 month summers. Good thing is we can take those 10 months for whatever-- studying for boards, research, away rotations, extra electives, vacation (shhhh), going abroad for a project, getting married, etc. So take 2 months off for boards and you got 8 months to play around with. Not bad.

 

[Gleevec]

We do have the stats to back this up. We had a much higher MCAT and GPA than them. And they had ~12 people drop out first year, we had 8, and the class below had none after the first year.

LOL nice, way to stick it to the faculty bro

Also, I doubt Baylor or Penn students are significantly smarter or dumber than their peers. It must be the curriculum and the faculty.

 

[BaylorLion]

Some schools are getting close to that. UCSF was done in like March, and we were done then, too. 1.75 years. Maybe all of you aplicants should just take the boards next week. You guys will be in the 300's for sure.

Hah! LMAO!!! At first, I thought this was a sarcastic comment on us premeds getting too big for our britches and thinking we knew everything about medicine and the medical universe. Then I reread it and got it - thanks for my laugh of the day.

 

[BaylorLion]

We do have the stats to back this up. We had a much higher MCAT and GPA than them. And they had ~12 people drop out first year, we had 8, and the class below had none after the first year.

I wasn't doubting you, and indeed, the stats are self-evident. I was just pondering about the constant reminding - it's like they're reminding you that you are expected to do a LOT better than the prevous class.

 

[TheFlash]

Are you sure about that Baylor 242?!! The statistics behind why no school could feasibly have a 240+ average (esp. a large school like Baylor) was explained very well by (I think) Neuronix in another past thread.

 

[Gleevec]

Are you sure about that Baylor 242?!! The statistics behind why no school could feasibly have a 240+ average (esp. a large school like Baylor) was explained very well by (I think) Neuronix in another past thread.

The last 'confirmed' score was 236. The 'rumored' score for this class is 242.

Then again, terms like "confirmed" and "rumored" mean nothing since there are no OFFICIAL stats. Let's just say its at least 235.

I think if schools like Baylor and Penn can get 235ish, I dont think its unreasonable to have a few upper outliers.

But I mean, there is no way to confirm any of this, so unfortunately there is really little I can say except that this is what some students in the purported class that I trust say. Now whether they too might be mistaken, who knows. But you could equally say that about any score.

Thats why they should rank schools based on an output variable, like board scores.

 

[Alexander99]

I wouldn't be surprised if UCSD's average is only ~225 cause lots of students go into primary care. If you're set on going into primary care, don't you pretty much just have to pass the Step I? That being the case, there isn't much incentive to do really well.

I think UCSD needs a 1.5 year cirriculum. I'm going to talk to the Dean Monday. Should be in effect by the end of the week.

 

[Jalby]

I wasn't doubting you, and indeed, the stats are self-evident. I was just pondering about the constant reminding - it's like they're reminding you that you are expected to do a LOT better than the prevous class.

They also tell us that we should have the highest boards scores in school history and would be disappointed in us if we all didn't match into nueroderm. And we start everyday with a pledge of allegience. Oh... Wait, that was elemantry school.

 

[Jalby]

The last 'confirmed' score was 236. The 'rumored' score for this class is 242.

Yeah, I don't buy the 242. But I did wish they had a published list of board scores. Of course, then you would get a purpetual cycle of the best students going to the place with the highest scores. That would get UCSD to change their curriculum.

 

[Gleevec]

Yeah, I don't buy the 242. But I did wish they had a published list of board scores. Of course, then you would get a purpetual cycle of the best students going to the place with the highest scores. That would get UCSD to change their curriculum.

Yeah, but I trust the guy who told me. But I can definitely see how one could dismiss it as hearsay, its quite hard to swallow. And it doesnt make it easier that this info is hidden from public eye.

All I know for sure is that it has been 235+ for a while ("for sure" being a relative term, especially for this thread).

 

[Jalby]

Yeah. But I don't always trust the orginal sources of information. You could be the 5th link. UCSD has told people forever that they have the highest board pass rate in the nation (100%) that get's translated into highest board score in the nation.

Or UPenn suposidely having a 244 avg. Someone posted it on here 2 years ago, and he found out that the person who told him was mistaken and that was the avg of the people who got into radiology there. But I still see people swear up and down on here tha UPenn has a 244 board avg.

 

[pekq]

I think everybody tells their current class that they are smarter than the previous years. However, not me, I told my all my lab sections they were all inferior to my year . On another note, that getting smarter thing seems to happening at UPitt as well. Their current 1st year class is know as the "gunner class."

 

[TRUE]

Just a note, I'm not going to be adding the latest "rumor" scores to the front page of this post.

 

[Gleevec]

Just a note, I'm not going to be adding the latest "rumor" scores to the front page of this post.

Arent all the scores rumors anyway since there is no official document with these averages?

 

[beriberi]

Wash U 229 (2001)--it goes out in a letter with the Dean's Letter when students apply for residency. They only give about 4 weeks from 2nd year finals to 3rd year clerkship start, however.

 

[TRUE]

Arent all the scores rumors anyway since there is no official document with these averages?

You are correct in that there is no official document, but at a lot of schools they come and tell you straight up with that board scores are (during their presentations during interviews). While they could theoretically lie, I think this information is better than "my friend's gf's roomate's cousin told me that..."

 

[Gleevec]

You are correct in that there is no official document, but at a lot of schools they come and tell you straight up with that board scores are (during their presentations during interviews). While they could theoretically lie, I think this information is better than "my friend's gf's roomate's cousin told me that..."

Actually I had employees of several different schools (three or four) tell me they have the "highest board scores in the country". The chances that each of them had the highest score for step1,step2,step3 is very slim. So I dont even trust the school administrators to be honest.

 

[missbonnie]

I found this on the Columbia website:

USMLE Step I Average P&S Score for last three years: 229-231-228 (National 215) USMLE Step II Average P&S Score for last three years: 222-223-223 (National 212)

for a class of 150.


At one point I even found this powerpoint presentation on breakdowns by topic - how the students did in each part, but it looks it's gone now.

-bonnie

 

[jeonsied]

A friend of my mine that goes to NYU told me their Step I average was 235 and that a few students have even gotten 260, 275

 

[TRUE]

Actually I had employees of several different schools (three or four) tell me they have the "highest board scores in the country". The chances that each of them had the highest score for step1,step2,step3 is very slim. So I dont even trust the school administrators to be honest.

I wouldn't trust anyone who says that either. However, if a school tells you an actual # (not we're the best in the country) in a powerpoint presentation while plotting performence over time, I'm gonna take their word for it.

 

[TheFlash]

I found this on the Columbia website:

USMLE Step I Average P&S Score for last three years: 229-231-228 (National 215) USMLE Step II Average P&S Score for last three years: 222-223-223 (National 212)

for a class of 150.


At one point I even found this powerpoint presentation on breakdowns by topic - how the students did in each part, but it looks it's gone now.

-bonnie

Wow, Columbia's Step I scores are lower than I thought they'd be. They're still excellent, no doubt. I just remember people saying that they had the best in the country back when I was applying last year. Gotta love rumors.

 

[pekq]

The following came from a thread i started in the USMLE forum.

Duke:230
Harvard:220 (dunno about this)
UMissouri-Columbia: 226

 

[Gleevec]

The following came from a thread i started in the USMLE forum.

Duke:230
Harvard:220 (dunno about this)
UMissouri-Columbia: 226

wow 220 for supposedly the top medical school in the country? that's kinda pathetic.

 

[BaylorLion]

I'm suspicious, but if it's true, I'd believe it. Why study for the boards? The Harvard pedigree guarantees you'll get into a good residency.

 

[ImmunoANT]

I think UCSD needs a 1.5 year cirriculum. I'm going to talk to the Dean Monday. Should be in effect by the end of the week.

I know lots of schools take students' words seriously but shortening the curriculum to 1.5 yr is a big thing. I doubt it'd happen right away.

 

[BaseballFan]

greatest rumor thread ever.

keep posting the bs...

bump

 

[Jalby]

keep posting the bs...

lol. In that case, from the Loma Linda thread their class had just over a 230 average.