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kaidou1412 said:
but my point is, students need to get some basic education of finance..especially before getting into schools. it may not ends up having zero debt but at least they will know how to plan accordingly. well first of all, I will never go to any schools at expensive location. Find schools where located at cheap/out of nowhere location...dat will save a lot of cost of living. dats why I always point SDSU as the best school in the United States for saving money..cheapest tuitions and ridiculously low living cost. Can you find more schools like this? yes but not a lot.
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Some things are not taught in school. Managing personal finance is one of them.
Members don't see this ad.
 
Honesty? If you can pull your GPA up to at least a 2.8+ and with a solid PCAT + kick ass personal statement, you have a chance at getting some interviews. I received interviews with a GPA below 3.0, but I did have circumstances that schools found interesting. Plus, I have a ton of experience ranging from pharmacy volunteering, clubs, to undergraduate research.

Don't ever give up. I'm telling you. People will try and crap on your dreams, but please don't give up. Try. Attempt to do better. Some schools will shoot you down because of your GPA, but the schools that actually take the time to invest in your story are the schools that are worth it.

Best of luck to you!
 
SonikaS said:
Some schools will shoot you down because of your GPA, but the schools that actually take the time to invest in your story are the schools that are worth it.
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or they are desperate for your tuition money. :smuggrin:
 
Members don't see this ad :)
SonikaS said:
Honesty? If you can pull your GPA up to at least a 2.8+ and with a solid PCAT + kick ass personal statement, you have a chance at getting some interviews. I received interviews with a GPA below 3.0, but I did have circumstances that schools found interesting. Plus, I have a ton of experience ranging from pharmacy volunteering, clubs, to undergraduate research.

Don't ever give up. I'm telling you. People will try and crap on your dreams, but please don't give up. Try. Attempt to do better. Some schools will shoot you down because of your GPA, but the schools that actually take the time to invest in your story are the schools that are worth it.

Best of luck to you!
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My goodness you don't know how much reading this post made me smile! Thank you so much for the encouraging words I really appreciate it:)!
 
BMBiology said:
Why would anyone who has a good GPA, competitive and well informed about the profession apply to pharmacy schools? There are better alternatives out there.
Click to expand...

Do you not consider the desire to become an expert in medication a valid reason? Would you fault someone for choosing their field of interest because of pharmacy students' loans/job market predictions?

I won't argue that the market appears to be more saturated than it was a decade ago, but you really make it sound like there are no jobs anywhere. You may call me naive, but I think there will always be job opportunities for those who are successful at networking during school and are committed to distinguishing themselves from their peers. It may not be their dream job, but in the scheme of things, how many people get their dream job right out of school?

Granted, I am still a student with four more years to become jaded about the situation. :D
 
I would like to become a chef but I am sure not going to spend 200-300 k to become one.

Everyone is going to network. It is the easiest thing you can do.

Some of guys screwed up and are now desperate. You are going to dig yourself in a deeper hole by choosing a career that is already saturated.

If anyone with a pulse can get into a pharmacy school, what does that say about your job prospect?
 
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle...5&src=wnl_edit_medp_phar&uac=196150SX&spon=30

In an email today from Medscape, there was an interesting article titled, "A Looming Joblessness Crisis for New Pharmacists." It went over some numbers if any of you guys were curious about it. I found it interesting. Also, without any experience in a pharmacy (other than school rotations) I think I will be hard for you future grads to get jobs. Seriously consider getting as much work experience as possible!
 
BMBiology said:
I would like to become a chef but I am sure not going to spend 200-300 k to become one.

Everyone is going to network. It is the easiest thing you can do.

Some of guys screwed up and are now desperate. You are going to dig yourself in a deeper hole by choosing a career that is already saturated.

If anyone with a pulse can get into a pharmacy school, what does that say about your job prospect?
Click to expand...

That is a bit of exaggeration - there are only a small number of jobs that require this tuition. This is one of them and there is simply no getting around that. This is the hand we've been dealt, and I'd say the majority of us have already come to accept that.

I'm not entirely sure what your argument is regarding "anyone with a pulse can get into pharmacy school." If these people are not competitive now, what makes you think they will be competitive in the job market when they graduate?
 
The job market is only bad to those pharmacist that are not very good pharmacist
 
kaidou1412 said:
by the way..let's go back to the main topic.. is OP still good to go?..not about job market :eek:
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Agreed. Plenty of other threads if people want to discuss job market.
 
kaidou1412 said:
by the way..let's go back to the main topic.. is OP still good to go?..not about job market :eek:
Click to expand...

haha yes I didn't know how this got so off topic lol but I met with my advisor and talked about everything and I must say I fee a lot better. I know these threads are helpful but sometimes the best advice comes from someone who knows you really well. Thanks everyone and I hope I have a post in a few months titled "ACCEPTED!"

:)
 
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BMBiology said:
I would like to become a chef but I am sure not going to spend 200-300 k to become one.
Click to expand...

If I knew I was going to get myself into 200k+ debt going with pharmacy school (I'm not going that deep into debt btw), I would have dropped pharmacy plans and went out to become a pilot instead.

With that being said, I don't think the PharmD is worth the 200-300k considering the volatility of the job market; but that's just my opinion.

I forgot to quote you on the networking part, but is networking really that easy? I don't know if our definition of "networking" is the same, but I don't consider it networking if you just show up, shake hands with some guy/gal, kiss ass, then be on your merry way. I consider networking to be making good impressions, both through top-notch work ethics and social skills, on the individuals you meet, as well as keeping in (relatively) frequent contact with those said individuals.
 
The Asklepian said:
I'm not entirely sure what your argument is regarding "anyone with a pulse can get into pharmacy school." If these people are not competitive now, what makes you think they will be competitive in the job market when they graduate?
Click to expand...

You are right. They may not be as competitive as you. However, when there's a gut of unemployed, licensed pharmacists who are willing to do the same job for less and who are willing to do anything CVS tells them then it affects you and your ability to earn a living.
 
Sugoi Travis said:
I forgot to quote you on the networking part, but is networking really that easy? I don't know if our definition of "networking" is the same, but I don't consider it networking if you just show up, shake hands with some guy/gal, kiss ass, then be on your merry way. I consider networking to be making good impressions, both through top-notch work ethics and social skills, on the individuals you meet, as well as keeping in (relatively) frequent contact with those said individuals.
Click to expand...

A good network is one centered on good greasing. My PIC at Cadaver-scouting Vultures Services assisted me into transitioning outside of the retail environment by offering a strong recommendation when I interviewed for another facility. Then they told me that there was a 'perfect' shift open for them at the same pharmacy. To which I tried to put as friendly and non-pushy as possible to HR that there was a pharmacist I could vouch for and would be a good fit for the company. They scheduled an interview in a couple of days with them.

Lol though @ top-notch work ethic/social skill. I remember when the first batch of resumes I made had an objective/summary that read 'Motivated individual and hard worker with an interest in.... 'x' field that is related 'y' position. As for social skills, I only follow-up with people who are interested in hearing from me and are open to being a strong reference for me in the future. And also that they are an individual that I feel are reliable and I can recommend to other people who might need an RPh for whatever they need to get done.
 
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The reality of your situation is that you still stand a chance. Whatever you do don't give up because you will never know the outcome if you do. The brutality will come from people trying to put you down and tell you that you won't succeed. But in the end, we all know that you stand a chance. Keep your head up high, keep working hard and form a positive trend in your academics and you will be fine.
 
Do HS counselors or college finaid officers ever mention the rules of thumb for taking on debt?

http://studentloanfactspage.com/get-the-facts/what-you-can-afford/#axzz2i1hA1VpM


"Loan total rule of thumb: never take out more in student loans than your expected annual salary post-graduation. For instance, once you've done research to find that the starting annual pay for your field is $32,000, you know you should never take out more than $32,000 in loans over the course of earning your degree. Of course, the student-loan educated try to borrow much less than that".


"The general rule of thumb for student loan borrowing is that the total amount of student debt should not exceed the borrower's anticipated annual salary for the first year out of school," says Allesandra Lanza, spokeswoman for American Student Assistance, a nonprofit based in Boston."

http://www.bankrate.com/finance/college-finance/how-much-college-debt-is-too-much-1.aspx


There is no value in getting a PharmD anymore. You'll end up working for the banker who put up no collateral.

Professors are the New Bankers .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2fouG917Gxo

Don't Pay Your Kids Way Through College .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdX_G2wKI-8&feature=player_detailpage
 
Just rumor for now, but there whispers of a pay cap for pharmacists coming at a major chain near you.

Also unusual staffing occurring in select Wags districts. It seems a pilot program is in progress to see if a store manager can be done away with. Just have a community leader supervise a gang of assistant managers. I would interpret this as a last stand manuever before a major consolidation--aka store closings.
 
Mur7ay said:
To much partying
Click to expand...


I had graduated with a 2.3 GPA from a long time ago and it was due to partying too much.

A few years later, I went back to school with right mind set, studied a lot, etc... My overall GPA the last few years was a 3.9ish including getting "As" in every science course that is required. Plus I took some higher level courses.

From what I have noticed, several schools will look at your last 5 years mainly in determining whether or not you are a right fit.

Even when my PharmCAS GPA stating something like 2.8ish overall and 3.3ish for the Science overall. My PCAT was a 55 on the only attempt.

I guess it was good enough as I was getting interviews lined up and actually got into the school that I wanted. (happened about 2 weeks ago)

Bottom line, it's never too late to make a comeback. I did it and know of others that have done the same.
 
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Yes grumps. Why bother investing in the $100,000 annual retail dream when you've got $300,000 + interest piling on your bank account? Why not go into a post-bach program to burn another $300,000 + interest on a petroleum or chemical engineering degree and get burned by cyclical unemployment when gas gets slashed? Or why not go into post-bach for computer science and work for Google only to learn that you just can't come up with a single line of effective code and are stuck in bug testing until you get old and are laid off? Or why don't our pharmacy hopefuls pursue high profile investment banking on Wall Street rolling in the dough the first five years only to find out that their credit-default swap division is getting closed and unlike all the other times there are no banks or companies interested in buying them out. 1/2 the equation is disillusioning people in the investment they are making. The other 1/2 is actually meeting the 'better' fields that exist with actual employers that are desperate to hire kids out of school and pay them for the cost that they would be receiving if they went through with pharmacy. The problem with giving kids a short-term ballpark of loans is that kids are optimistic and see it as only being a short-term problem. No idiot goes through pharmacy or medicine focused about the cash they have to pony up going into the system. Rather they think they are making a good long term investment since everyone gets sick and there is always business to be had in providing drugs, surgeries, or other services in exploiting our health scare system to reap profit from the sick and elderly. Grumps tell me where the money is and tell me who is hiring. Because all I see is everyone bitching about how the water is cleaner on the other side of the same cesspool.


grumps said:
Do HS counselors or college finaid officers ever mention the rules of thumb for taking on debt?

http://studentloanfactspage.com/get-the-facts/what-you-can-afford/#axzz2i1hA1VpM


"Loan total rule of thumb: never take out more in student loans than your expected annual salary post-graduation. For instance, once you’ve done research to find that the starting annual pay for your field is $32,000, you know you should never take out more than $32,000 in loans over the course of earning your degree. Of course, the student-loan educated try to borrow much less than that".


"The general rule of thumb for student loan borrowing is that the total amount of student debt should not exceed the borrower's anticipated annual salary for the first year out of school," says Allesandra Lanza, spokeswoman for American Student Assistance, a nonprofit based in Boston."

http://www.bankrate.com/finance/college-finance/how-much-college-debt-is-too-much-1.aspx


There is no value in getting a PharmD anymore. You'll end up working for the banker who put up no collateral.

Professors are the New Bankers .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2fouG917Gxo

Don't Pay Your Kids Way Through College .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdX_G2wKI-8&feature=player_detailpage
Click to expand...
 
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Paesan, I'm afraid there is nowhere to turn to. This is the 4th turning we're facing. A college education is no longer the moat it used to be to protect a labor market. Now everybody gets an A, gets access to credit, and 2400's on SAT's ( computer-adaptive testing). The young don't understand that their future income has been collateralized to form another base on Great Debt Pyramid. Say there were a field not saturated, how long before schools overbuild too much education capacity? If you get in early on the first wave, you might get 15 years in the field.

If I were 20 right now the options:

1) small business entrepeneur: not in this country with leviathan govt out vacuum up anything not nailed down.

2) military/ govt job: would have been a good idea 20-30 years ago, but now those govt pensions will be the first to be sacrificed for the sake of the Treasury. Like agriculture was the source of massive unemployment in the 30's, government will be the source of job cuts this time around.

3) get a job in a shale-oil/gas boom town: No need to be a white-collar petrochem engineer. A roughneck or truck driver can make 6 figures. I would live in the company dorm, work 70-80 hours/week, save everything in metal, live like a monk during downtime, and come the debt reset...well, he who has the gold...
http://twoshortplanksunplugged.blogspot.com/2013/10/134000-gold-price.html

4) go expat route: Only the very few would be up for this. Central America and Africa have potential.

The key is to avoid college until this credit bubble bursts. Even if one goes into a field with good prospects and a high barrier to entry, these conditions could end with the quick establishment of more schools suckling off the easy credit teat.
 
futurepharm425 said:
Alright so I am currently a senior at the University of Iowa. I will be graduating in May with a degree in Interdepartmental Studies focus in Health Science. I applied to 13 pharmacy schools via PharmCAS and My stats are as follows:
cumulative GPA: 2.26
Science: 1.88
Note about GPA's: The reason these are quite low, is because I did residency in the state of Iowa 2 years ago. I was a part time student and worked full time. by not doing well in the chem 2 class, it brought my gpa down a lot. and I have been climbing that GPA ladder ever since. But there is a huge uphill trend. I got a 4.0 in the summer, and this semester I am going to definitely make the dean's list (a few of my classes are already competed)
PCAT: will re-take in Nov.
Experience: certified tech at Wal-Mart for 14 months, volunteer at hospital in CVICU for 2 years, Dance Marathon Ambassador. I did 2 years of medical lab research for the University of Iowa Hospitals and Clinics in the department of Molecular Physiology and Biophysics.
LOR's: I had a total of 4 LOR's for my application. 2 of them were by the Pharmacists I work with (one of them being the assistant manager), I had 1 from the Assistant Professor I did research for in the dept. of molecular physiology, and the last was by my Microbiology professor.
Personal Statement: I think I had a solid personal statement that was excellently written and well thought out. I spent a lot of time editing and truly trying to make my personal statement stand out.


I am currently enrolled in 18 hours here at the university, but I am also taking 13 credits at community college online and finished those classes with A's. I am getting straight A's in my classes now at Iowa, and I am almost done with 2 of them which are online. By the end of the fall term my Cumulative GPA will most likely be a 2.86 and my science GPA will most likely be a 2.55. If I completely dominate on the PCAT, will I get some interviews you think? This is where I applied:

1. University of Iowa College of Pharmacy
2. Midwestern University- Downers Grove
3. Midwestern University- Glendale Arizona
4. LECOM School of Pharmacy-
5. Mercer University
6. University of Michigan
7. Nova Southeastern University
8. Palm Beach Atlantic University
9. Roseman University
10. Shenandoah University
11. University of Houston
12. University of Illinois- Chicago

I had talked to some admissions counselors from these schools and they said that once I do the academic update, my application will be reconsidered and entered for consideration. I know everyone is going to tell me to not apply, but that ship has already sailed. I am determined to get in somewhere. I have the passion and motivation and drive to become a pharmacist, but the grades on a piece of paper don't do justice to who I am.
thanks for reading!
Click to expand...

Hi. Former student Adcom member here at one of the schools you have listed. I won't divulge too much in the interest of privacy but this would be advice I'd give any pre-pharmer regardless of what school they apply to.

1) YMMV depending on your competition and who's on the committee.
2) Grade trends do matter, but so does your reasoning for your poor GPA. There is an abundance of excuses for poor performance and there are plenty of people who work and don't get 2.26 GPAs. Also I can't tell much without seeing your transcript, but that low of a GPA for your 3 years of schooling tells me you maintained Bs/Cs/Ds, it wasn't just a fluke year. You need to stress that you've learned from your hardships and demonstrate that via grade trend/PCAT. Recall that you will need to work during pharmacy school as well to fulfill internship hours so we need to know you can manage your time well.
3) Research experience looks solid providing you did more than wash glassware and do grunt work. Volunteering also solid. Pharm tech exp good.

2.26 cGPA is way too low for consideration in probably 99% of cases to get an interview. If you can get your GPA up to a 2.7ish I think you may have a chance if other aspects of your application are impressive. Strive for a 90+ PCAT. This will help you stand out. Too many candidates feel that a 70+ PCAT score is great already, which it may be if you have a stellar GPA but doesn't say much if you don't

Lastly, community college classes and "easy" classes are evaluated under the knowledge that they are easier to ace. So definitely would help to see As in your uni classes, specifically ones in the hard sciences. The purpose of your GPA is so the college knows you can handle professional school coursework, which unsurprisingly does not consist of "Yoga 101" or "Introduction to Fruit Still Life".
 
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Be aware most of the schools you listed are also waaay out of your league. U of M and UIC? Not a chance. That's a waste of money. You will be outright rejected from the vast majority of the schools you applied to and will not get a chance to update your application.
 
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Click to expand...

You're gonna get the BAN hammer!
 
Brutally honest? Well here it is. Most schools really do not care about the PCAT and won't even discuss it during your interview. I can almost guarantee that just about every school won't even bother reading your essay due to your abominably low gPa. I did the same thing (working 3 jobs and taking 16 credits) and the only class that I had to retake from that semester was Organic Chemistry I. Sure it hit my gpa but I really cannot fathom how you ended up with a 2.6ish gpa.....Not to be a pessimist but more than half the people I met at my interviews were Bachelor Degree Holders in science based field with both pharmacy and lab experience and just about all of them were applying for the second time. Your chances of getting an interview are pretty close to zero unless you work towards your masters or something and get all A's in the process.
 
Hello!
How have your pharmacy school applications / interviews turned out?
Have you received any feedback yet about an interview or anything?
I am slightly in the same boat as you. I have a horrible GPA but I am a senior with over 100 credits and honestly there isn't much I can do about it right now.
I have maintained many Cs and Bs and just a few As which brings my GPA down quite a bit to just a 2.85 or somewhere around there.
my PCAT was an 85.
I would like to know if you've heard back from schools yet or are you just waiting?
 
I admire your courage and tenacity op. I think you know the consequence of posting this before you started and applause you for that. I don't know how things are going with you but I want you to know that there is light at the end of this long journey you've been traveling. There are so many great and supportive comments I've read on this thread, whether it may come off offense or not, there's always something useful you can take away from it.

I had a 2.19 Gpa w/ 90 hours of credit when I decided to turn my life around. It took my a couple years to find myself and mature but guess what? I've been accepted to most of the schools I applied to. There's hope and know that I/we support your journey.

Best wishes

-your friend Andy
 
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impressive congrats.
gladiator87 said:
I admire your courage and tenacity op. I think you know the consequence of posting this before you started and applause you for that. I don't know how things are going with you but I want you to know that there is light at the end of this long journey you've been traveling. There are so many great and supportive comments I've read on this thread, whether it may come off offense or not, there's always something useful you can take away from it.

I had a 2.19 Gpa w/ 90 hours of credit when I decided to turn my life around. It took my a couple years to find myself and mature but guess what? I've been accepted to most of the schools I applied to. There's hope and know that I/we support your journey.

Best wishes

-your friend Andy
Click to expand...

impressive congrats
 
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