2008 US News Medical School Rankings

BU Medical Sciences
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devilishlyblue said:
Some of us need all the help we can get!:p
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Some? For heaven's sake, we're med students! You mean MOST!

Our value as bachelors are at an all time low for the next 4 years (and decrease further as we enter residency).
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HumbleMD said:
Sure, some people want a name that carries "weight" with their patients and/or women at the bar. UPenn indeed carries weight in the medical community and those who know anything about medical schools which is where it actually counts (positive). I'm guessing you go on name mostly, though. I see pretension and ivory-towerness as hindrances to interacting with my patients (a negative), not as a plus but note I plan on working with underserved pops.
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Good to know. Thanks for clearing that up.

3zguoll.jpg
 
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Post the bottom 10 schools. Who's the worst.
 
shadowclaws said:
Post the bottom 10 schools. Who's the worst.
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Beauxbatons. Sure the veelas are hot, but they take too many muggle-borns. :smuggrin:

Actually the bottom ten would be more entertaining to me than the USN drivel. It is a publication for the lay public for crying out loud.
 
Did the info change over for the primary care rankings as well? I'm interested to see what the top 10 will be this year, they seem to tend to shuffle a lot more than the research rankings do.
 
QuakerPreMed said:
Hah! Vandy, that's what you get for waitlisting me while UChicago let me in. Suckers. And now I can say I'll be attending a top-15 school...hmm. :D

rme04, that's a really interesting list. I'd be pissed if I were an admissions person at NYU -- not such a great trend, esp if they are #34 this year like someone else said. Of course, these rankings are all kind of stupid...
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hahahhaa this is funny and exactly what i said. a variation at least. looks like the top ten by '10 thing isn't working. but then again i must admit its gonna be super hard for anyone new to crack the top 10. its cemented.
 
I wonder how many premeds get an erection while reading the rankings. It's gotta be a lot.
 
pyrois said:
That's so messed up:p

I really hope that was just a pseudo t-shirt image and that they don't sell that in the student store or something:p
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They actually do (did?) have a "Not Penn State" t-shirt at the Penn bookstore. It's grey, with a gigantic P (half navy/half crimson) and the "not Penn State" portion written in a circle around it.

I bought it for my mom (as a joke). She got so tired of explaining to people that I wasn't at Penn State but rather at Penn, she finally just started lying and telling people I was at Penn State. :p It works either way. Penn State has a much better reputation in my part of the state anyway (where football is king).
 
pyrois said:
That's so messed up:p

I really hope that was just a pseudo t-shirt image and that they don't sell that in the student store or something:p
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agreed that it seems pretty messed up.
 
Severus said:
They actually do (did?) have a "Not Penn State" t-shirt at the Penn bookstore. It's grey, with a gigantic P (half navy/half crimson) and the "not Penn State" portion written in a circle around it.

I bought it for my mom (as a joke). She got so tired of explaining to people that I wasn't at Penn State but rather at Penn, she finally just started lying and telling people I was at Penn State. :p It works either way. Penn State has a much better reputation in my part of the state anyway (where football is king).
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For undergrad, I'd rather go to Penn State.

For med school, I'd rather go to Penn.
 
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EBI831 said:
hahahhaa this is funny and exactly what i said. a variation at least. looks like the top ten by '10 thing isn't working. but then again i must admit its gonna be super hard for anyone new to crack the top 10. its cemented.
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Not that it makes a difference but it made me feel slightly more convinced i made the right decision on where to go
 
y8507 said:
Aw, I go to school in Philly, and I love it here. :)
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I go to school in philly... Philly would be a great city if it weren't for its really, very, extremely miserable people.
 
So is anyone getting the new rankings from the website? I'd love to see residency director's ratings on my schools...
 
PAPPAPPAP said:
I go to school in philly... Philly would be a great city if it weren't for its really, very, extremely miserable people.
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No offense, but I would hate Philly too if I lived anywhere close to Drexel Med.
 
For those who have a subscription: how did you access this information? I thought it wasn't being released for a couple more days.

Also, assuming you were able to access the info, have you already purchased the 2008 version or is it also with the 2007 account?
 
HumbleMD said:
Penn's area is nice, right?:confused:
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Penn's area (University City) is very nice. It's in a completely different part of town from Drexel Med, but it is directly next to Drexel Ugrad.

University City (Next to West Philly) = Penn and Drexel

East Falls (North in Fairmount Park) = Drexel Med (really crappy area in my opinion)
 
Meeher said:
Hahahaha...well just look at the peer assessment and residency director scores, and you'll see Vandy beats UChicago!!! 4.0/4.1 (Chicago) vs. 4.1/4.2 (Vandy)!! :) And I agree, the rankings ARE stupid, but kind of fun to look at and argue over petty things that really won't matter in the end.
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I'm not picking a fight with you at all, and I agree that both schools are good, but your post made me wonder something. Are any of these differences between 4.0 and 4.2 or whatever statistically significant WHATsoever? I've not seen a lot of the "guts" of the USNews ranking system and I can't help but wonder if the difference between 4.0 and 4.1 (if they, say, handed residency directors a 1-5 scale and said "rate these") is completely moot. Hmmm.....
 
Eric Lindros said:
Penn's area (University City) is very nice. It's in a completely different part of town from Drexel Med, but it is directly next to Drexel Ugrad.

University City (Next to West Philly) = Penn and Drexel

East Falls (North in Fairmount Park) = Drexel Med (really crappy area in my opinion)
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West Philly is pretty disgusting. You'll find that over 75% of Penn grad students live in Center City because of this.

Penn's area is not "very nice," unless your idea of a "very nice" day is a day when you get mugged or shot.
 
Towelie said:
West Philly is pretty disgusting. You'll find that over 75% of Penn grad students live in Center City because of this.

Penn's area is not "very nice," unless your idea of a "very nice" day is a day when you get mugged or shot.
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Isn't that everyone's idea of a "very nice" day ? :confused:
 
Towelie said:
West Philly is pretty disgusting. You'll find that over 75% of Penn grad students live in Center City because of this.

Penn's area is not "very nice," unless your idea of a "very nice" day is a day when you get mugged or shot.
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So once again, does location not factor at all into what medical schools you applied to? I don't understand the philly bashing but then the enthusiasm for hearing back from penn med? just curious haha
 
Towelie said:
West Philly is pretty disgusting. You'll find that over 75% of Penn grad students live in Center City because of this.

Penn's area is not "very nice," unless your idea of a "very nice" day is a day when you get mugged or shot.
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It's really not that bad. I currently live in university city and I feel pretty darn safe here. We have Penn security on pretty much every street corner up to like 41st (I don't know if they patrol higher than that) and there are always tons of students out. I'd feel quite comfortable living between 40th-42nd on Baltimore, Spruce, Pine, Locust, Sansom, Chestnut, and Walnut (Market gets a little dicey).

Center City is fun and seemingly more safe, but from my experience, living there was increasingly difficult for the following reasons:

1.) mid-/high-rises are quite difficult to find now as the buildings which were reasonably priced have gone condo. That said, there are some excellent brownstones to be had... you just have to search more.

2.) homeless.... they're friggin everywhere up there. I felt less safe -- and was mugged -- while I lived in Center City than I ever have in University City.

3.) it really smells. I mean, smells like **** (literally). Maybe it was just my block or so, but between the feces on sidewalks/alleys and the sewer smells, summer '05 was not pleasant.
 
QuakerPreMed said:
I'm not picking a fight with you at all, and I agree that both schools are good, but your post made me wonder something. Are any of these differences between 4.0 and 4.2 or whatever statistically significant WHATsoever? I've not seen a lot of the "guts" of the USNews ranking system and I can't help but wonder if the difference between 4.0 and 4.1 (if they, say, handed residency directors a 1-5 scale and said "rate these") is completely moot. Hmmm.....
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Haha...I wasn't picking a fight--far from it (sorry if it sounded like that--guess my laugh in the beginning didnt help :)). That was my point...there is probably no difference between 0.2 points, and it's funny to see people argue over such petty differences. I'm a fan of 'every med school is good so let's all be friends' =).
 
Meeher said:
Haha...I wasn't picking a fight--far from it (sorry if it sounded like that--guess my laugh in the beginning didnt help :)). That was my point...there is probably no difference between 0.2 points, and it's funny to see people argue over such petty differences. I'm a fan of 'every med school is good so let's all be friends' =).
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I love how SDN is almost as post-modern as kindergarten soccer...:D
 
Towelie said:
West Philly is pretty disgusting. You'll find that over 75% of Penn grad students live in Center City because of this.

Penn's area is not "very nice," unless your idea of a "very nice" day is a day when you get mugged or shot.
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True, then again students from Columbia probably run to West Philly for safety after being chased through Washington Heights:p
 
pyrois said:
True, then again students from Columbia probably run to West Philly for safety after being chased through Washington Heights:p
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And then there's Cleveland, which ain't no picnic either. At Case's 2nd look last weekend, they provided shuttles everywhere -- even when it was <2 blocks away -- not because it was too far, but because it was too dangerous.
 
Meeher said:
Haha...I wasn't picking a fight--far from it (sorry if it sounded like that--guess my laugh in the beginning didnt help :)). That was my point...there is probably no difference between 0.2 points, and it's funny to see people argue over such petty differences. I'm a fan of 'every med school is good so let's all be friends' =).
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Haha, I knew what you meant. I didn't think you were trying to actually mean anything confrontational. :thumbup: Here's to schools on the mainland US (sorry UH, no beef with you either).

I do wonder about USNews statistics more and more the longer I go through this process, though...
 
QuakerPreMed said:
Haha, I knew what you meant. I didn't think you were trying to actually mean anything confrontational. :thumbup: Here's to schools on the mainland US (sorry UH, no beef with you either).

I do wonder about USNews statistics more and more the longer I go through this process, though...
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...With good reason. I do think one way they can be good (but more for choosing where to apply, not making a final decision) is cutting through our own regional biases. Sure, 14th versus 18th is a ridiculous distinction, but 4th versus 44th at least tells us some broader trends which many of us might not be aware of simply because of where we are geographically located. Witness the Californian previously who had no idea that UPenn was a respectable program. I face similar bias, being from Michigan in telling people where I'm considering attending. Many assume I'll choose UMich because they believe its the best medical school in the country.
 
HumbleMD said:
Many assume I'll choose UMich because they believe its the best medical school in the country.
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On the other hand, UMich is a hell of a program and lot better than University of Texas San Antonio or UT-Galveston, which are pretty much the "best school ever" if you're living in central TX (where I'm originally from). Regional differences do play a massive role so I wonder if where I'll end up practicing is near where I go to medical school...
 
QuakerPreMed said:
On the other hand, UMich is a hell of a program and lot better than University of Texas San Antonio or UT-Galveston, which are pretty much the "best school ever" if you're living in central TX (where I'm originally from). Regional differences do play a massive role so I wonder if where I'll end up practicing is near where I go to medical school...
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No that proves my point. They're all regionally the "best ever" but USNews reflects the difference between a UMich (11th last year) and UTSA or UTG (unranked).
 
pyrois said:
That's so messed up:p

I really hope that was just a pseudo t-shirt image and that they don't sell that in the student store or something:p
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I believe this shirt initially emerged in the 80's because in one of the NCAA tourneys when Penn was playing out of state, some of the uninformed vendors at the game were mistakenly trying to sell Penn State souveniers. Shortly thereafter the "Not Penn State" gear emerged, and made its appearance in all subsequent NCAA tournaments that Penn participated in. So it was not really meant as a knock on Penn State.:)
 
husky0684 said:
So once again, does location not factor at all into what medical schools you applied to? I don't understand the philly bashing but then the enthusiasm for hearing back from penn med? just curious haha
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Towelie already went on record on SDN a while back asserting (incorrectly) that Penn was "the most dangerous med school in the US". So take his comment in that context.
Penn is a city school. There are many city schools in worse neighborhoods than Penn, and there are many more dangerous cities than Philly.
 
Kind of a random tangent, and I get that there isn't a ton of mobility on this list, but has anyone followed the list for the last ~5 yrs.? That would really interest me... are there any schools that are strongly on the upswing/strongly on the downswing?
 
PZMO said:
Kind of a random tangent, and I get that there isn't a ton of mobility on this list, but has anyone followed the list for the last ~5 yrs.? That would really interest me... are there any schools that are strongly on the upswing/strongly on the downswing?
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These are all of the USNEWS rankings of research med schools over the past years that they they ranked schools. The schools are listed in order of the 2004 rankings.

2005 2004 2003 2002 2001 2000 1999 1998 1997 1995 1993
Harvard 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
Wash U 3 2 3 4 3 4 3 5 4 5 5
Hopkins 2 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2
Duke 6 4 5 3 5 6 4 3 5 6 6
U Penn 4 4 4 4 3 3 4 7 6 7 7
UCSF 5 6 6 7 7 6 7 4 6 4 4
U Mich 9 7 8 9 12 10 9 9 9 11
Columbia 10 8 7 6 5 8 7 8 8 8 8
Stanford 8 8 11 9 10 10 9 10 10 9 9
U Wash 7 10 10 11 9 9 13 13 11 9 9
Yale 11 10 9 8 7 5 4 6 3 3 3
Cornell 14 12 11 11 14 13 9 12 12 17
Baylor 13 13 13 11 12 15 13 15 15 15
UCLA 11 14 13 14 10 10 12 11 13 12
U Pitt 16 15 17 20 19 24 19 17 17 18
Vanderbilt 1715 16 16 16 16 15 14 14 14
UCSD 14 17 20 24 23 22 19 20 18 13
UTSW 17 17 17 17 19 19 17 21 20
Emory 20 19 20 22 19 19 21 19 24
Northwestern 20 20 22 20 22 21 25
UNC 23 20 22 24 23 22
Mayo 23 22 15 15 15 14 24 24 22
U Chicago 19 22 19 17 18 18 18 16 16 16
Case 20 24 22 17 17 16 15 18 19 19
U Alabama 23 25 28 27 26 24 25
UVa 26 25 27 28 30 28
U Wisc 26 25 31 30 31 32
MSSM 32 28 22 23 23 27
Iowa 28 28 30 29 32 30
NYU 32 30 26 24 27 24 21 23 22 20
U Colorado 30 31 31 33 33 33
U Rochester 30 32 28 31 28 30
USC 32 32 36 43 40 36
Dartmouth 35 34 34 34 36 41
OHSU 35 34 35 35 39 36
U Minn 38 34 36 35 33 36
Yeshiva/Einstein 38 37 31 32 28 28 24 22 21
OSU 37 38 44 40 40 39
Indiana 45 39 47 43 40 41
Tufts 43 40 43 37 36 41
U Florida 46 40 44 40 44 45
Wake 41 40 39 43 50 45
Boston U 28 43 39 37 33 33
Brown 40 43 39 40 44
Georgetown 46 43 43 44 39
U Cinn 41 43 44 48 40 45
U Maryland 43 43 39 43 44 48
Utah xx 48 38 39 36 33
UCD 46 49
Jefferson xx 50 48 50 48
MCW xx 50 50 50
U Miami xx 50 49 48 50
UCI 46 53
U Mass 50 53 48 48 44 41
UT-Houston xx 53
StonyBrook xx 56
Tulane xx 56
UMDNJ xx RWJ 56
U Conn xx 59
VCU/MCV xx 60


This was dug up from the deep, dark corners of Page 1 of this thread....haha guess you skipped to page 2
 
Towelie said:
West Philly is pretty disgusting. You'll find that over 75% of Penn grad students live in Center City because of this.

Penn's area is not "very nice," unless your idea of a "very nice" day is a day when you get mugged or shot.
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Towlie, no offense, but unless you are just messing around, you are abosolutely clueless. I am starting to doubt whether you even been to the United States, let alone Philly.

1) Penn is not in West Philly

2) I could go on, but lets just sum it up like this: anything that you post is wrong ;)
 
HumbleMD said:
No that proves my point. They're all regionally the "best ever" but USNews reflects the difference between a UMich (11th last year) and UTSA or UTG (unranked).
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I'm shocked sometimes how little people know about Texas med schools - do you have any idea how many times I told people that I got into Baylor and they replied, "Ugh, why would you want to live in Waco? UT is much better anyway."

Even people who live in Houston and have for their entire lives.
 
PZMO said:
Kind of a random tangent, and I get that there isn't a ton of mobility on this list, but has anyone followed the list for the last ~5 yrs.? That would really interest me... are there any schools that are strongly on the upswing/strongly on the downswing?
Click to expand...

Mobility on the list most often reflects specific changes in US News methodology. An exception would be Pitt's surge in NIH funding leading to an upswing in ranking. But, really, that's an exception.

It would be interesting to see historical information on residency director scores. I don't believe much has changed in the questions they ask residency directors, or the ways they ask them.
 
It's an understandable mistake though. I always thought affiliated med schools were at least somewhat near their colleges (like within walking or short driving distance).

In fact, I've interviewed in some places and still don't know where those med schools are located relative to their undergrads:p
 
pyrois said:
It's an understandable mistake though. I always thought affiliated med schools were at least somewhat near their colleges (like within walking or short driving distance).

In fact, I've interviewed in some places and still don't know where those med schools are located relative to their undergrads:p
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Baylor isn't affiliated anymore. Not since the 60s (but I could have that date wrong)

But considering it was still in Houston and before that Dallas, yeah it doesn't really make much sense, does it? :p But if you lived in Houston I'd assume you'd know the med schools there.
 
Why do people care so much for small fluctuations in rankings from year to year? Everyone knows that Harvard is going to be at the top, along with the rest of the Ivy's/Johns Hopkins. I don't mean to sound condescending but its going to happen anyways; this is the type of behavior that High School Juniors/Seniors exhibited when they correlated endowment with quality of education. Do you honestly feel that you're going to get a better education at a #2 school as compared to a #30 school, as ranked by US News?

I currently attend an undergraduate college that refuses to participate in such rankings. At first, I thought it was a bit silly, but I now realize that the whole ranking system trivializes the research and connection that potential students must have with the college.



I told you it was going to sound snobby and what not, but I tried my best (ok, maybe not my best, but i tried).


Can someone explain to me the motivation for such fascination with someone else's opinion of a college they've never attended?
 
Jeebus said:
along with the rest of the Ivy's/Johns Hopkins
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1.) If you mean that the list is remarkably stable, I agree.

2.) Re: Ivies in particular, notice that Brown, Yale, Columbia, Dartmouth, and Cornell -- while excellently ranked -- are not (along with JHU) schools 2-7 in the ranks. The top ten are 60% non-Ivy/JHU.

3.) The information is sometimes useful. Premeds picking a college would be well-served to have more information about whether that might have an impact on their eventual residency chioces, however small.

4.) Mostly I think it's just gossip value, the same reason you want to see your friend's prom photos.
 
I'm disappointed, husky, no color-coded graph?

TheMightyAngus said:
I wonder how many premeds get an erection while reading the rankings. It's gotta be a lot.
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Yes there are special modified strip clubs where they go to look at powerpoints of each school's numbers.

"Next up on stage... Let's here it for Pritzker..." (Kanye West plays over the speakers.) Slow motion as the NIH funding appears.

Whoa! Check out that MCAT average--.05 greater than last year! Round of Guinness for everyone! Come on, baby, come on! Show me that Peeeeeeeeer Assessment score! (pulls dollar out to tip the slide changer)

That's nothing, buddy, ever since that one year when Wash U was number 1 instead of number 4 (when a brawl broke out), they have really been teasing us with the acceptance rate. Wait, wait, wait, there it isssssssss... Oh snap! 5.5% :horns:

What's wrong with that guy over in the corner?

He just found out he picked a school that is now tied for #20, so it's not technically true that he got into a top 20 school.

Are you kidding? Let's remove the sharp objects from his table just to be safe...
 
Jeebus said:
Can someone explain to me the motivation for such fascination with someone else's opinion of a college they've never attended?
Click to expand...

Scenario 1

Malpractice Attorney: And where did you go to medical school?

Jeebus: Kentucky Med

Malpractice Attorney: You realize you're going to get creamed when we go to trial.

Scenario 2

Malpractice Attorney: And where did you go to medical school?

Jeebus: Hopkins

Malpractice Attorney: Hrmmm... I have better things to do with my time.


http://qshc.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/12/5/330
 
Critical Mass said:
Yes there are special modified strip clubs where they go to look at powerpoints of each school's numbers.
Click to expand...

Waitress arrives... Match anyone?

Oh no, I don't smoke.

You'll have to excuse my friend, he's new. Of course we would like a match list. Do you have an '04? The joint we just came from had 'em back to '03.

'03-'05 is for champagne court clientele only, sir, but I know a bartender who is quite liberal with her plastic surgery if you know what I mean. ;)

(slips waitress a $20 into her apron) whisper... meet me in the restroom in 5 minutes with the downlow on this year's Ivy League derms

Ivy League this year, sweetie? too boocoo (gives $20 back)

Disgruntled, pre-allo returns to his colleagues. Anybody want to swap some Nobel Laureate trading cards?
 
husky0684 said:
These are all of the USNEWS rankings of research med schools over the past years that they they ranked schools. The schools are listed in order of the 2004 rankings.

2005 2004 2003 2002 2001 2000 1999 1998 1997 1995 1993
Harvard 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
Wash U 3 2 3 4 3 4 3 5 4 5 5
Hopkins 2 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2
Duke 6 4 5 3 5 6 4 3 5 6 6
U Penn 4 4 4 4 3 3 4 7 6 7 7
UCSF 5 6 6 7 7 6 7 4 6 4 4
U Mich 9 7 8 9 12 10 9 9 9 11
Columbia 10 8 7 6 5 8 7 8 8 8 8
Stanford 8 8 11 9 10 10 9 10 10 9 9
U Wash 7 10 10 11 9 9 13 13 11 9 9
Yale 11 10 9 8 7 5 4 6 3 3 3
Cornell 14 12 11 11 14 13 9 12 12 17
Baylor 13 13 13 11 12 15 13 15 15 15
UCLA 11 14 13 14 10 10 12 11 13 12
U Pitt 16 15 17 20 19 24 19 17 17 18
Vanderbilt 1715 16 16 16 16 15 14 14 14
UCSD 14 17 20 24 23 22 19 20 18 13
UTSW 17 17 17 17 19 19 17 21 20
Emory 20 19 20 22 19 19 21 19 24
Northwestern 20 20 22 20 22 21 25
UNC 23 20 22 24 23 22
Mayo 23 22 15 15 15 14 24 24 22
U Chicago 19 22 19 17 18 18 18 16 16 16
Case 20 24 22 17 17 16 15 18 19 19
U Alabama 23 25 28 27 26 24 25
UVa 26 25 27 28 30 28
U Wisc 26 25 31 30 31 32
MSSM 32 28 22 23 23 27
Iowa 28 28 30 29 32 30
NYU 32 30 26 24 27 24 21 23 22 20
U Colorado 30 31 31 33 33 33
U Rochester 30 32 28 31 28 30
USC 32 32 36 43 40 36
Dartmouth 35 34 34 34 36 41
OHSU 35 34 35 35 39 36
U Minn 38 34 36 35 33 36
Yeshiva/Einstein 38 37 31 32 28 28 24 22 21
OSU 37 38 44 40 40 39
Indiana 45 39 47 43 40 41
Tufts 43 40 43 37 36 41
U Florida 46 40 44 40 44 45
Wake 41 40 39 43 50 45
Boston U 28 43 39 37 33 33
Brown 40 43 39 40 44
Georgetown 46 43 43 44 39
U Cinn 41 43 44 48 40 45
U Maryland 43 43 39 43 44 48
Utah xx 48 38 39 36 33
UCD 46 49
Jefferson xx 50 48 50 48
MCW xx 50 50 50
U Miami xx 50 49 48 50
UCI 46 53
U Mass 50 53 48 48 44 41
UT-Houston xx 53
StonyBrook xx 56
Tulane xx 56
UMDNJ xx RWJ 56
U Conn xx 59
VCU/MCV xx 60


This was dug up from the deep, dark corners of Page 1 of this thread....haha guess you skipped to page 2
Click to expand...


Yup, I did... sorry about that :p
 
The Doctor said:
Did the info change over for the primary care rankings as well? I'm interested to see what the top 10 will be this year, they seem to tend to shuffle a lot more than the research rankings do.
Click to expand...

Does anyone with access to the online edition have an answer to this question? I'm curious too.
 
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