Why I Chose Medicine

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pharmprospect

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Hello everyone...thanks to all those who answered my previous thread about pharmacy. I just wanted to share with you why I will probably aim for medicine instead. What I say won't apply to everyone, but it's worth thinking about.

Money
Money isn't everything, but it is an important reason why we all go to work. Pharmacists do make a lot...well, a lot when compared to everyone except doctors. Seven out of the top ten earning professions are different medical specialties. Pharmacists aren't even on the list. According to the Occupational Outlook Handbook provided by the U.S. Department of Labor, the average salary for a pharmacist is $77,500. I think this estimate is a bit low, but the OOH tends to have low estimates for most professions, so it is still valid for comparative purposes. The average salary for a family physician is $150,000 (this is also a lower estimate, just like that provided for other professions). Specialists earn more, all the way up to anesthesiologists who earn an average of more than $300,000. So, yes, pharmacists do make a lot of money, but like Einstein said, it's all relative. A typical anesthesiologist will earn more than 4 typical pharmacists put together. At the least, a doctor in a low-paying field can still typically expect to earn more than twice as much. So do pharmacists still earn "a lot" of money?

Educational Commitment
Many people have gone into pharmacy because they feel it takes "a lot" less time than it does to become a doctor. There used to be a big difference back in the day when you could do just two years of undergrad and two years of postgrad to become a licensed pharmacist. Doctors had to spend at least seven years more, which I agree is a huge commitment. The problem with this is that it is no longer true! Now all pharmacists have to retain the Pharm.D., not just two years postgrad. So that seven extra years gets whittled down to five. Plus, the future of the pharmaceutical field is rumored to be heading toward clinical (I personally doubt this). However, if you want to be a clinical pharmacist, you need to complete a one-year residency after postgrad. This is optional, but if you don't do the residency, you will be limiting which job opportunities you can pursue. So let's assume you want to keep your options open and do the residency. Those five extra years for doctors gets whittled down to four. We can only pray that the same people who made the Pharm.D. mandatory don't come up with a longer residency plan.

Now let's take a closer look at undergrad. Many people are getting into pharmacy school with just two years experience, but it is becoming increasingly unlikely that a 2-year applicant will be accepted, due to the increasing competitiveness of the applicant pool. In some pharmacy schools, except for a few super-students, it is unofficial policy that without a bachelor's degree you have almost no chance of getting in. However, I think it's reasonable to suggest that the typical pharmacy student will need three years of undergrad both to prepare for pharmacy and to be accepted. Two years is minimalistic and four years is the maximum, so we can reasonably assume three years is typical (statistically, it is). This means that unlike doctors the typically pharmacist won't have a bachelor's degree due to the missing year if they want to switch professions as is increasingly the trend (unless they work really hard for those three years), but we can overlook that for now. So the four extra years for doctors now gets whittled down to three.

So a typical 7 years for pharmacists and a typical 10 years for doctors seems reasonable, considering that doctors make double, triple, and in some cases even quadruple what pharmacists do. But you may ask, "Hey, there's still 3 extra years!" Yes, but those years of residency are not unpaid - the typical salary during residency is only $30,000 which is no fortune, but it's something. In fact, it's a third of a typical pharmacist's salary. So while you as a pharmacist will be working those three years while the doctor is going through an admittedly tough residency, you will only make an average extra profit of $180,000. The doctor will break even with you in 2 to 3 years and steamroll right on ahead (typically). My point being, those 3 extra years doesn't mean zero income, and boy does it pay off in the end. So 7 years vs. 10 years with the price of reducing your salary by 1/2 to 1/3 for the rest of your life...does becoming a pharmacist still take "a lot" less time than becoming a doctor?

My last problem with the idea that pharmacists have less educational commitment than doctors regards intensity of education. Admittedly, it is harder to get into medical school and to complete medical school than it is for pharmacy school. But, contrary to perception, that doesn't mean it is for lazy people. If you are a lazy person, you are going to be just as poorly off in a pharmacy school as in a medical school. To go into pharmacy because you are lazy is a dumb idea. To go into pharmacy solely because it takes 7 years instead of 10 years is a dumb idea when you look at a lifetime. With that reasoning, why go to college at all, and save those 7 extra years as well? You should go into pharmacy if you enjoy pharmacy, not for these reasons.

What is my advice for people who want to go into medicine but don't think they can get in so are planning to go into pharmacy?
1. Do your best.
2. Don't underestimate the strength of pharmacy school (again, do your best).
3. Apply to both. If you get into medical, go medical. There's a reason why it's so much harder to get into medical school - it's in greater demand. If you get in, go.
4. If you are really committed to medicine and don't get into medical school, you can go to a Caribbean school where they accept everyone, then come back to the U.S. for residency (a surprisingly common practice). You'll only get into one of the lowest paying specialties, but that means you will still be earning twice as much as a pharmacist.

Responsibility
Yes, medicine typically does involve more responsiblity than pharmacy. But that is what makes it rewarding, and why people arguably treat you with more respect. Let me advise any pre-pharms out there: Don't go into pharmacy instead of medicine because you're an irresponsible person. It's not going to work. There are no easy answers in life. Snap out of it.

Medical malpractice is an issue. However, the public is aware of it and constant efforts are underway to improve the situation. It's an old and well known fact lawyers sue the people who have the money. Don't go into pharmacy because you are afraid of being sued - it's an issue with anyone who has millions of dollars, be aware of it and deal with it. Don't avoid it or use it as a legitimate reason to switch careers, at least not with all the efforts underway to help doctors.

Interest
The bottom line of my mini-book is that the major legitimate reason most people should have to go into pharmacy is that they have a real interest in it that is significantly greater than their interest in medicine. However, I have heard of some people who choose pharmacy for the wrong reasons such as:

"I am afraid of getting a disease."
"I don't like to touch people."

Folks, if this is the case, you probably shouldn't go into pharmacy either. Both doctors and pharmacists have a great deal of knowledge about biochemistry, the human body, and the use of drugs. You have to find some difference between the two that makes you significantly more interested in pharmacy than medicine...if that is the case, go for it and good luck to you. If you are afraid of blood or corpses, most medical students will tell you that they initially were also somewhat afraid and queasy, but were so well-trained that by the end, this natural reaction is completely overcome. One medical student I'm friends with told me he was eating lunch over the corpse with his classmate when the classmate dropped something inside...he just picked it out and ate it. Now he was exxagerating, but the point is that such natural reactions are totally overcome by the end of your training...not a good reason to avoid medicine unless it is a debilitating problem for you.
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I absolutely agree with this entire treatise on why you are entering medicine. While I do not intend to denigrate pharmacy as a profession (and I don't think you do either), I think you have made a sound argument about medicine's advantages.
 
I'm glad you reached a decision. Just keep in mind the cost of malpractice insurance (not expensive for pharmacists, very expensive for docs), costs of running your own practice, taxes, etc. when you look at those salaries. Some family practice doctors are earning about what some pharmacists make. Not that it's not still a lot of money.
 
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The incomes I listed do to take into consideration the cost of malpractice insurance, running your own practice, etc. The OOH lists the net income after these costs have been considered. I'm guessing maybe the top 5% earning pharmacists and the bottom 5% earning doctors may overlap, but who knows it might be even less than that. What's important is what is highly probable, not possible.
 
it is great to hear that you have reached your decision. people like you i have no problem with but there are some people in this world who gets into profession with absolutely wrong reasons. which i cannot understand.
 
OSURxgirl said:
Some family practice doctors are earning about what some pharmacists make. Not that it's not still a lot of money.
Click to expand...

As are some dentists, who have an average income of $170,000 for 2004. Averages are just that, meaning there are people on both sides of the spectrum. Going back to the original topic, either profession (pharm or med) you will be financially set, but the OP's argument is 100% correct.
 
pharmprospect said:
Hello everyone...thanks to all those who answered my previous thread about pharmacy. I just wanted to share with you why I will probably aim for medicine instead. What I say won't apply to everyone, but it's worth thinking about.

Money
Money isn't everything, but it is an important reason why we all go to work. Pharmacists do make a lot...well, a lot when compared to everyone except doctors. Seven out of the top ten earning professions are different medical specialties. Pharmacists aren't even on the list. According to the Occupational Outlook Handbook provided by the U.S. Department of Labor, the average salary for a pharmacist is $77,500. I think this estimate is a bit low, but the OOH tends to have low estimates for most professions, so it is still valid for comparative purposes. The average salary for a family physician is $150,000 (this is also a lower estimate, just like that provided for other professions). Specialists earn more, all the way up to anesthesiologists who earn an average of more than $300,000. So, yes, pharmacists do make a lot of money, but like Einstein said, it's all relative. A typical anesthesiologist will earn more than 4 typical pharmacists put together. At the least, a doctor in a low-paying field can still typically expect to earn more than twice as much. So do pharmacists still earn "a lot" of money?

Educational Commitment
Many people have gone into pharmacy because they feel it takes "a lot" less time than it does to become a doctor. There used to be a big difference back in the day when you could do just two years of undergrad and two years of postgrad to become a licensed pharmacist. Doctors had to spend at least seven years more, which I agree is a huge commitment. The problem with this is that it is no longer true! Now all pharmacists have to retain the Pharm.D., not just two years postgrad. So that seven extra years gets whittled down to five. Plus, the future of the pharmaceutical field is rumored to be heading toward clinical (I personally doubt this). However, if you want to be a clinical pharmacist, you need to complete a one-year residency after postgrad. This is optional, but if you don't do the residency, you will be limiting which job opportunities you can pursue. So let's assume you want to keep your options open and do the residency. Those five extra years for doctors gets whittled down to four. We can only pray that the same people who made the Pharm.D. mandatory don't come up with a longer residency plan.

Now let's take a closer look at undergrad. Many people are getting into pharmacy school with just two years experience, but it is becoming increasingly unlikely that a 2-year applicant will be accepted, due to the increasing competitiveness of the applicant pool. In some pharmacy schools, except for a few super-students, it is unofficial policy that without a bachelor's degree you have almost no chance of getting in. However, I think it's reasonable to suggest that the typical pharmacy student will need three years of undergrad both to prepare for pharmacy and to be accepted. Two years is minimalistic and four years is the maximum, so we can reasonably assume three years is typical (statistically, it is). This means that unlike doctors the typically pharmacist won't have a bachelor's degree due to the missing year if they want to switch professions as is increasingly the trend (unless they work really hard for those three years), but we can overlook that for now. So the four extra years for doctors now gets whittled down to three.

So a typical 7 years for pharmacists and a typical 10 years for doctors seems reasonable, considering that doctors make double, triple, and in some cases even quadruple what pharmacists do. But you may ask, "Hey, there's still 3 extra years!" Yes, but those years of residency are not unpaid - the typical salary during residency is only $30,000 which is no fortune, but it's something. In fact, it's a third of a typical pharmacist's salary. So while you as a pharmacist will be working those three years while the doctor is going through an admittedly tough residency, you will only make an average extra profit of $180,000. The doctor will break even with you in 2 to 3 years and steamroll right on ahead (typically). My point being, those 3 extra years doesn't mean zero income, and boy does it pay off in the end. So 7 years vs. 10 years with the price of reducing your salary by 1/2 to 1/3 for the rest of your life...does becoming a pharmacist still take "a lot" less time than becoming a doctor?

My last problem with the idea that pharmacists have less educational commitment than doctors regards intensity of education. Admittedly, it is harder to get into medical school and to complete medical school than it is for pharmacy school. But, contrary to perception, that doesn't mean it is for lazy people. If you are a lazy person, you are going to be just as poorly off in a pharmacy school as in a medical school. To go into pharmacy because you are lazy is a dumb idea. To go into pharmacy solely because it takes 7 years instead of 10 years is a dumb idea when you look at a lifetime. With that reasoning, why go to college at all, and save those 7 extra years as well? You should go into pharmacy if you enjoy pharmacy, not for these reasons.

What is my advice for people who want to go into medicine but don't think they can get in so are planning to go into pharmacy?
1. Do your best.
2. Don't underestimate the strength of pharmacy school (again, do your best).
3. Apply to both. If you get into medical, go medical. There's a reason why it's so much harder to get into medical school - it's in greater demand. If you get in, go.
4. If you are really committed to medicine and don't get into medical school, you can go to a Caribbean school where they accept everyone, then come back to the U.S. for residency (a surprisingly common practice). You'll only get into one of the lowest paying specialties, but that means you will still be earning twice as much as a pharmacist.

Responsibility
Yes, medicine typically does involve more responsiblity than pharmacy. But that is what makes it rewarding, and why people arguably treat you with more respect. Let me advise any pre-pharms out there: Don't go into pharmacy instead of medicine because you're an irresponsible person. It's not going to work. There are no easy answers in life. Snap out of it.

Medical malpractice is an issue. However, the public is aware of it and constant efforts are underway to improve the situation. It's an old and well known fact lawyers sue the people who have the money. Don't go into pharmacy because you are afraid of being sued - it's an issue with anyone who has millions of dollars, be aware of it and deal with it. Don't avoid it or use it as a legitimate reason to switch careers, at least not with all the efforts underway to help doctors.

Interest
The bottom line of my mini-book is that the major legitimate reason most people should have to go into pharmacy is that they have a real interest in it that is significantly greater than their interest in medicine. However, I have heard of some people who choose pharmacy for the wrong reasons such as:

"I am afraid of getting a disease."
"I don't like to touch people."

Folks, if this is the case, you probably shouldn't go into pharmacy either. Both doctors and pharmacists have a great deal of knowledge about biochemistry, the human body, and the use of drugs. You have to find some difference between the two that makes you significantly more interested in pharmacy than medicine...if that is the case, go for it and good luck to you. If you are afraid of blood or corpses, most medical students will tell you that they initially were also somewhat afraid and queasy, but were so well-trained that by the end, this natural reaction is completely overcome. One medical student I'm friends with told me he was eating lunch over the corpse with his classmate when the classmate dropped something inside...he just picked it out and ate it. Now he was exxagerating, but the point is that such natural reactions are totally overcome by the end of your training...not a good reason to avoid medicine unless it is a debilitating problem for you.
Click to expand...

Geez after that long post lets see if you ACTUALLY make it through med school :laugh:
 
I dont even know where to start...maybe I SHOULDNT start.

I left pharmacy school for medical school.

I am currently a 3rd year medical student (with 3 years of pharmacy school behind me). I am living with a pharmacist (roomate) and dating a pharmacist (girlfriend). All of my non medical school friends are pharmacists.

Let's go over a couple of things.

MONEY
I dont know ANY pharmacist making $77,500 as you quoted. Maybe thats the national average and factoring in non-retails areas of pharmacy. Just to give you an idea of what my pharmacist friends are making: $106,000 (retail) 2 years experience, $97,000 (retail) 1 year experience, $86,000 (grocery store retail) 1 year experience, $122,000 (research) 3 years experience, $112,000 (retail) 6 years experience, $99,000 (management) 5 years experience.

I can tell you right now that there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY you will make that as a first year doc in any primary care specialty. Private practices associated with major hospitals in Philadelphia are hiring newly boarded family docs at $95,000. They pay your malpractice, but you WORK for that money.


LIFESTYLE
In the 7 years I have been surrounded (worked in, worked with, lived with, dated) by the pharmacy profession I have YET to see a retail pharmacist have to go to work because they are "on call." I have YET to see one of them work on a day they had scheduled as a day off unless they chose to pick up an extra shift.



You dont pick pharmacy or medicine based on a laundry list of pros and cons.

Right about now, surrounded by my schedule...my debt...my responsibility, etc...I sure as hell wish I stayed in pharmacy school. I would be making $90,000 somewhere right now and I would have been the one to buy that new Volvo, not my roomate.

But I made a choice to enter medicine. Sure, its frustrating and the road ahead looks long and difficult...and it is...but when I think about it at the end of the day, I KNOW I made the right choice.

Dont compare apples to oranges. Medicine and pharmacy are not as close as people think. I work with pharmacists every day on rotations...I come home to a pharmacist...I sleep with a pharmacist. I know what they go through at work, in school and I know the kinds of lives they have outside of work.

If you want money NOW and a life NOW, choose pharmacy.

If you want money LATER and a life LATER, choose medicine.

But if you need to think twice about entering medicine, its not for you, at least not in my opinion.

Medicine is a calling, not a career. Its a life, not a job.

I will now step off my soapbox and take any harassment any of you wish to deal out.
 
JPHazelton said:
I dont even know where to start...maybe I SHOULDNT start.

I left pharmacy school for medical school.

I am currently a 3rd year medical student (with 3 years of pharmacy school behind me). I am living with a pharmacist (roomate) and dating a pharmacist (girlfriend). All of my non medical school friends are pharmacists.

Let's go over a couple of things.

MONEY
I dont know ANY pharmacist making $77,500 as you quoted. Maybe thats the national average and factoring in non-retails areas of pharmacy. Just to give you an idea of what my pharmacist friends are making: $106,000 (retail) 2 years experience, $97,000 (retail) 1 year experience, $86,000 (grocery store retail) 1 year experience, $122,000 (research) 3 years experience, $112,000 (retail) 6 years experience, $99,000 (management) 5 years experience.

I can tell you right now that there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY you will make that as a first year doc in any primary care specialty. Private practices associated with major hospitals in Philadelphia are hiring newly boarded family docs at $95,000. They pay your malpractice, but you WORK for that money.


LIFESTYLE
In the 7 years I have been surrounded (worked in, worked with, lived with, dated) by the pharmacy profession I have YET to see a retail pharmacist have to go to work because they are "on call." I have YET to see one of them work on a day they had scheduled as a day off unless they chose to pick up an extra shift.



You dont pick pharmacy or medicine based on a laundry list of pros and cons.

Right about now, surrounded by my schedule...my debt...my responsibility, etc...I sure as hell wish I stayed in pharmacy school. I would be making $90,000 somewhere right now and I would have been the one to buy that new Volvo, not my roomate.

But I made a choice to enter medicine. Sure, its frustrating and the road ahead looks long and difficult...and it is...but when I think about it at the end of the day, I KNOW I made the right choice.

Dont compare apples to oranges. Medicine and pharmacy are not as close as people think. I work with pharmacists every day on rotations...I come home to a pharmacist...I sleep with a pharmacist. I know what they go through at work, in school and I know the kinds of lives they have outside of work.

If you want money NOW and a life NOW, choose pharmacy.

If you want money LATER and a life LATER, choose medicine.

But if you need to think twice about entering medicine, its not for you, at least not in my opinion.

Medicine is a calling, not a career. Its a life, not a job.

I will now step off my soapbox and take any harassment any of you wish to deal out.
Click to expand...

I just choked up. That was inspirational. I think you watch too much ER though. To me, a calling is something you would do even for little pay, and I doubt most doctors would be called to the profession if it salaries maxed out around 50K a year such as an audiologist's salary does.
 
Bob_Barker27 said:
I just choked up. That was inspirational. I think you watch too much ER though. To me, a calling is something you would do even for little pay, and I doubt most doctors would be called to the profession if it salaries maxed out around 50K a year such as an audiologist's salary does.
Click to expand...

Youre right. MOST doctors wouldnt and that is one of the problems with medicine today.

Too much ER. Give me a break.
 
Thank you for your perspective, JP. I would like to add is that, like medicine, pharmacy can be a calling. Many pharmacists operate independent retail stores as extensions of themselves. I think we would both like to see every member of our respective fields pick that field for motivations other than money.

The underlying reason I choose to practice pharmacy is that it prompts me to grow and change as a person. I saw that phenomenon when working in a pharmacy my senior year of college and latched on. When I decided to continue on to pharmacy school, I had no idea what the salaries were. Had they been 45K, I would have still gone.
 
bananaface said:
Thank you for your perspective, JP. I would like to add is that, like medicine, pharmacy can be a calling. Many pharmacists operate independent retail stores as extensions of themselves. I think we would both like to see every member of our respective fields pick that field for motivations other than money.

The underlying reason I choose to practice pharmacy is that it prompts me to grow and change as a person. I saw that phenomenon when working in a pharmacy my senior year of college and latched on. When I decided to continue on to pharmacy school, I had no idea what the salaries were. Had they been 45K, I would have still gone.
Click to expand...


Agree completely. Did not mean to downplay pharmacy as it certainly can be a passion for some.
 
JPhazelton…

I said in my original post that I agree $77,500 is a bit low for an average salary. But so is $150,000 for a family physician. The average is probably about $10,000 higher for a pharmacist and about $20,000 higher for a physician. The comparison still stands. And, primary care is the lowest paying medical specialty. It’s almost as if you did not read my mini-book. It’s not what’s possible that matters, but what is highly probable. Your suggestion that pharmacists on average make comparable money to docs is silly. You yourself said: there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY first-year primary care docs would make that kind of money, and then you go on to give an example of $95,000 which IS a comparable salary.

You mentioned that docs have a tougher lifestyle, i.e. more responsibilities. I covered this already, and I totally agree with you on this point. But don’t underestimate the intensity of retail pharmacy. When the high volume hits, pharmacists can often be just as frazzled (or more frazzled) than docs. My family doctor used to be a pharmacist but even after completing his training still felt it worth going to medical school (a not-unheard-of event). When I was considering pharmacy, he told me that the stress he faced in pharmacy was a lot more than he had now. I disagree with him in that I still think doctors on average have a tougher lifestyle, but I think pharmacy is also very stressful.

You do pick pharmacy or medicine based on pros and cons, with these pros and cons including personal interest and what you currently think is your calling among others. What you don’t do is just choose one at the spur of the moment and regret it for the rest of your life. I think it’s bad advice to tell prospective pharm students to just ignore the pros and cons such as the future outlook of a field.

You said: If you want money NOW and a life NOW, choose pharmacy. If you want money LATER and a life LATER, choose medicine. This should be changed to: If you want money NOW and a life NOW, choose pharmacy. If you want DOUBLE TO QUADRUPLE THE MONEY LATER and a life 3 YEARS LATER, choose medicine.

Lastly, in my opinion saying that medicine is a calling and pharmacy isn’t is denigrating to the pharmacy profession (unintentionally of course). I think what you really meant was that medicine involves more responsibility than pharmacy, and a 3 year longer educational period. Be more specific in what you say.

As far as all the pharmacists you know, I know about as many doctors through family relations, plus I’ve asked the thoughts of about a dozen pharmacists in the course of my volunteer experience. However I had the maturity to put my personal knowledge in perspective with unbiased government statistics.

p.s. nothing against you, i just want undergrads like myself to have an honest look at the situation
 
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We have to be very careful with these vs. threads since they tend to degenerate. So far, we are doing pretty well at discussing without getting into a fray. They key is to accept that other people's views differ and not to worry too much about who is right. If people are considering either field and want to know specifics on salary, etc, they really should be doing their own research and foruming their own ideas.

I think when JP was saying the beginning salalries weren't comparable, he was taking into account the number of hours the average person works in each profession. If you calculated an hourly salary, pharmacy would start off higher. (Please correct me if this was not what you were thinking of, JP.)

There was mention about the relative responsibility between the two fields. As pharmacists are responsible for overseeing the dispensing of drugs, we have a heck of alot of opportunities to kill people on a daily basis. And, the counseling and medication therapy management that we do has a huge impact on the quality of patients' therapy and care. The responsibilities between the fields are different. But, they are all important.
 
you are right bananaface, it did degenerate there a bit didn't it :oops: ...but I do agree that primary care docs have got it worse than specialists
 
pharmprospect said:
JPhazelton…

I said in my original post that I agree $77,500 is a bit low for an average salary. But so is $150,000 for a family physician. The average is probably about $10,000 higher for a pharmacist and about $20,000 higher for a physician. The comparison still stands. And, primary care is the lowest paying medical specialty. It’s almost as if you did not read my mini-book. It’s not what’s possible that matters, but what is highly probable. Your suggestion that pharmacists on average make comparable money to docs is silly. You yourself said: there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY first-year primary care docs would make that kind of money, and then you go on to give an example of $95,000 which IS a comparable salary.

You mentioned that docs have a tougher lifestyle, i.e. more responsibilities. I covered this already, and I totally agree with you on this point. But don’t underestimate the intensity of retail pharmacy. When the high volume hits, pharmacists can often be just as frazzled (or more frazzled) than docs. My family doctor used to be a pharmacist but even after completing his training still felt it worth going to medical school (a not-unheard-of event). When I was considering pharmacy, he told me that the stress he faced in pharmacy was a lot more than he had now. I disagree with him in that I still think doctors on average have a tougher lifestyle, but I think pharmacy is also very stressful.

You do pick pharmacy or medicine based on pros and cons, with these pros and cons including personal interest and what you currently think is your calling among others. What you don’t do is just choose one at the spur of the moment and regret it for the rest of your life. I think it’s bad advice to tell prospective pharm students to just ignore the pros and cons such as the future outlook of a field.

You said: If you want money NOW and a life NOW, choose pharmacy. If you want money LATER and a life LATER, choose medicine. This should be changed to: If you want money NOW and a life NOW, choose pharmacy. If you want DOUBLE TO QUADRUPLE THE MONEY LATER and a life 3 YEARS LATER, choose medicine.

Lastly, in my opinion saying that medicine is a calling and pharmacy isn’t is denigrating to the pharmacy profession (unintentionally of course). I think what you really meant was that medicine involves more responsibility than pharmacy, and a 3 year longer educational period. Be more specific in what you say.

As far as all the pharmacists you know, I know about as many doctors through family relations, plus I’ve asked the thoughts of about a dozen pharmacists in the course of my volunteer experience. However I had the maturity to put my personal knowledge in perspective with unbiased government statistics.

p.s. nothing against you, i just want undergrads like myself to have an honest look at the situation
Click to expand...


Very interesting post. Let me chime in a few things as well.

1) FP's making $150, don't dilude yourself. Maybe if they have a developed practice, but out of school, no way. I mean seriously you keep quoting how they make way more, where, what city, what state?

2) You will not be making quadruple that of a pharmacist when you are a doctor. Maybe if you go into a field that pays good cash like plastics, neuro, urology, radiology, sure you will make more. But pay attn to my calculation.

Pharm D school 4 years (however you can do accelerated program which are not rare and do it in 3 years), two one thing about pharmacy is that you make top dollar pretty much right out of pharmacy school. Extra training does not mean extra money immediately but rather down the road. Also it all depends wht you want. If you want to make money, pharmacists can make a lot of money if they are willing to work for it. Let me put it this way that some pahrmacists I know make 150+. Now you ask yea right, well yea it is right. B/c you work midnights for 56-60 hr week they pay you for a 70 hr week. Then you get shift differential for working midnights usually couple of dollars. Now you are talking about having the next whole week OFF. Hey a lot of them will pick up shifts during that week. Guess what that's time and a half. So that's 60+/hr. The catch is that it is not a very feasible lifestyle on the long run.

Also you will not catch up to a pharmacist in a couple of years, hell no, try more like at least 5 years if ou are in a high paying field and like 10 if you are not. Plus medical school loans are 100+, pharmacy school loans are 40. Also you get to enjoy money as a young guy. As a 23 y/o you will be making 100, hey that is a lot of money for a young man. But you will be making 200 when you are 33 whoopti doo.

My whole pt is that it comes down to personality. If you like to be in charge, like to be more challenged and more autonomy. Then you are better suited for being a doctor (and I think you are, you have your mind made up).

I think that for you it is better to go be a doctor, b/c you have made your desicion, you are just using arguments to support your desicion. But I think deep down inside you don't want to be a pharmacist anyways. So go be a doctor. Really it is real hard and pointless to throw arguments here, b/c there is arguments and points for both sides. THe bottom line is the perspective.

But I'll tell you either way u will regret your desicion in some way. WHen you are a doctor, you will be pissed off why u are working so much in residency and not getting paid the real money for it, while your firends are having a good time. While if you are a pharmacist you will make a lot of money quickly, but you will be always wonedering why u didn't go and do more schooling.

Good luck to you champ.
 
Have you guys noticed that pharmacy students are generally short/petite women and men while medical students are more diverse in regards to height and body frame?
 
tupac don…I agree with you that primary care doctors have it rough these days, especially early on in their practice. But I am not deluding myself, the $150,000 I quoted is being published by the U.S. Department of Labor in the OOH. In regards to what city, state, etc., these are national statistics. I mean seriously, where are you getting your stats from? I’m citing mine, are you just making all your stats up?

Regarding making quadruple a pharmacist, that is the upper upper percentage of doctors…but the potential is still there. If anesthesiologists make $300,000 as an average according to the Department of Labor, than above average is possible (though certainly an upper limit). I know a surgeon who makes over $500,000 net, so it is possible as a maximum. Where are you getting your stats from?

I agree with you that pharm graduate school is cheaper than med school, but I didn’t bring it up in order to keep the post simpler. Even if according to you it takes 5 years to break even, that still leaves the rest of your life. There is no way it would take a doctor 10 years to catch up like you said – we can certainly debate other points but I don’t see the basis for your claim. And I agree with you that a pharmacist earning $150,000 by working 7 nights a week and catching overtime on the week off is difficult to maintain. My mother is a nurse who used to work nights and I have seen myself how hard it can be on the body. Anyway, cite the source of your stats that $150,000 is a common salary for a night pharmacist.

If you can come up with evidence to back up your forceful claims, then do so. That way we can all learn from this thread. On the other hand, if you are just throwing stuff out there, please realize you are deluding yourself and detracting from people trying to make a proper decision. In that case I hope you retract your statements.
 
Everyone and their mom knows that, in the long-term, doctors make more money than pharmacists. So, why even bother arguing about it?
 
I battled with the idea of going to med school when i was in undergrad. As a matter of fact i had full intention in attending med school. However, somewhere along the line i got turned on to pharmacy, the career , the science, and the profession. After shadowing a few pharmacists, who each worked in different aspects of pharmacy, i was then able to compare those experiences with the clinical experiences i had obtain while working as an emt in a emergency room.

BY this time it was obvious, pharmacy was for me. I knew i would loose out on the possibility of making 300 or even 500k a year, and the thought of working in a much less clinical environment did affect me somewhat. However, I knew i would find my niche in such a promising career.

In my opinion, many of these med vs pharm vs dent vs opt threads, are just a students poor attempt in trying to convince themselves they are making the right decision in choosing whatever they choose.
We all must remember that we are all blessed to be as gifted as we are to be able to be choosing between such respected professions.

My friends money comes and goes. Find something that makes u breathe deeper in the morning, because i can assure you the money won't.

Goodluck to all :thumbup:
 
Excellent analysis Pharmprospect. From a financial point of view, MD is a better choice IMHO. Various random thoughts.

Pharm education can cost as much as an MD if you go to a private 4-year program with 20K tuition.

Pharm salaries that have shot up recently (due to a short-term pharmacist supply problem created by credential creep from B. Pharm to Pharm D.) can just as easily go down - remember what happened to physical therapists? Supply is increasing with all the new schools and you can bet a million bucks that companies like CVS and WalMart will work diligently to reduce the cost of Pharm employees by figuring out more efficient ways of doing things e.g. automation - in the future a pharmacy will run with one pharm and one tech. Also PBMs mandate 90 day mail order refills. Hence, only the first prescription needs to be filled at a retail pharmacy - no more monthly refills at the pharmacy. Pretty much everyone I know has their health plan mandate 90 day PBM refills.

I doubt that growth in clinical jobs will employ the large numbers of Pharm Ds that schools and organizations like to project. Nobody is asking the question about who will pay for clinical services. The present and future of American health care is about cost cutting.

Also, as a Pharmacist, you are always going to be employed by someone else. As a physician you may be able to work in a separate group.
 
I don't think I can find one accurate statement in that post.

due to a short-term pharmacist supply problem created by credential creep from B. Pharm to Pharm D.)
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The shortage has little if anything to do with credential creep. The shortage is due to the increase in number of prescriptions and the increase in number of pharmacies that have opened over the past decade or so. This will not slow any time soon.

companies like CVS and WalMart will work diligently to reduce the cost of Pharm employees by figuring out more efficient ways of doing things
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True, but how is this different from HMO's, PPO's putting the pressure on docs to do things quicker and cheaper?

in the future a pharmacy will run with one pharm and one tech.
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This may be true, but there is no way of telling when. Current automated functions aren't exactly hassle free, and most allow current staffing to handle increased volume. And volume is still steadily increasing.

Also PBMs mandate 90 day mail order refills. Hence, only the first prescription needs to be filled at a retail pharmacy - no more monthly refills at the pharmacy. Pretty much everyone I know has their health plan mandate 90 day PBM refills.
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This is far from widespread right now. And besides who is going to fill those prescriptions at the mail order pharmacies? You still need a pharmacist. This trend of mandated mail order is also being decried by many consumer groups and I wouldn't be surprised if legislation was introduced to prevent it. Time will tell, but it is far from a sure thing.

Nobody is asking the question about who will pay for clinical services.
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Are you sure nobody is asking? I know of a lot of people who are asking. Look at the new medicare reforms and the payment possibilities for pharmacists.

The present and future of American health care is about cost cutting.
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Some would argue that paying pharmacists for clinical services is cost cutting in the long run. I'm not necessarily one of those because I haven't seen any good studies of late, but, I'm also not saying it isn't the case either.

Also, as a Pharmacist, you are always going to be employed by someone else.
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I guess I'll tell my good friend who runs a high volume independent pharmacy and drives a porsche to work that he doesn't actually exist.

I suppose this thread can only go downhill from here, but I didn't want to leave these misconceptions out there.
 
I really hate to have this end up as a pharmacy vs. medicine thread, because those tend to get ugly, get shut down, and make everyone involved upset. What is best for any individual is the role that best suits their interests. If money is what makes you happy, then frankly, I am not going to even try to make the case for pharmacy to you, because I don't feel that is the motivation that I want bringing people into my field. Out of respect for MDs and DOs who feel the same way I do about my profession, I will not point my finger their way and tell you to pursue medicine. My feeling is that either field will earn you a comfortable living and that neither field is intrinsically superior. Again, your decision should be about all about which field matches you best, financial interests aside.
 
I decided pharmacy based upon the policy and research aspects, on the basis of my intense interest in knowing medications specifically, which is a great distinction between professions, and the diversity of the profession as well as compensation.

I was chatting with my medical school friend the other day on the way up to our apartments behind UCSF and he told me he thought if he diagnosed and I came up with the drug therapies for his patients that would be just as efficient as what goes on now a days. Its great to speak with physicians and the topic of financial gain is not the immediate concern, but that of the patient and the efficiency of healthcare. There are many, many more points to be said about prescribing habits of physicians and how pharmacists can help in this area but that may take volumes.

It comes down to interest as I for many years felt being a physician was my calling. But with pharmacy I get the best of both worlds and focus solely on the drugs. There are many pharmacists associated with my school who work on HIV, Psychiatry, Organ Transplant, Bone Marrow Transplant wards.

Believe me, there is as much to learn and help with in healthcare as a pharmacist than most people know or care to find out.

For me, it is a passion and that's what it comes down to.
 
GravyRPH said:
This is far from widespread right now. And besides who is going to fill those prescriptions at the mail order pharmacies? You still need a pharmacist. This trend of mandated mail order is also being decried by many consumer groups and I wouldn't be surprised if legislation was introduced to prevent it. Time will tell, but it is far from a sure thing.
.
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I agree with the above statement. I worked for PCS Healthsystems/Advance PCS a mail order pharmacy, and let me tell you we had a lot of RPHs on staff. No matter how automated it may become pharamcists have to verify each and every rx. Two years ago we were filling 250,000 rxs a week and that was on a slow week. And pharms arent only on the filling floor..they were in rx re-writes, DUR, escalation services. BTW they were making great money for 40 hour work weeks and getting paid 2 1/2 on weekends. IMO no matter how automated you may think filling rxs become the need and pay for pharms will increase.
 
Oneday_9 said:
I decided pharmacy based upon the policy and research aspects, on the basis of my intense interest in knowing medications specifically, which is a great distincition between professions, and the diversity of the profession as well as compensation.

I was chatting with my medical school friend the other day on the way up to our apartments behind UCSF and he told me he thought if he diagnosed and I came up with the drug therapies for his patients that would be just as efficient as what goes on now a days. Its great to speak with physicians and the topic of financial gain is not the immediate concern, but that of the patient and the efficiency of healthcare. There are many, many more points to be said about prescribing habits of physicians and how pharmacists can help in this area but that may take volumes.

It comes down to interest as I for many years felt being a physician was my calling. But with pharmacy I get the best of both worlds and focus solely on the drugs. There are many pharmacists associated with my school who work on HIV, Psychiatry, Organ Transplant, Bone Marrow Transplant wards.

Believe me, there is as much to learn and help with in helathcare as a pharmacist than most people know or care to find out.

For me, it is a passion and that's what it comes down.
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What a beautiful reply. :) :thumbup: :thumbup:
 
Like JP, I'm also a pharmacist who's in 3rd year medical school. There are many valid points made by just about every poster on this thread. One should just do what they like to do.

Physicians are not their own bosses as much as they used to be, but still there is some freedom and much autonomy in your work that is just not available in most pharmacy positions. I like both professions --- I just like delving into all aspects of a patient's health.

I'd have to add one other note though. If it turns out that someone is in pharmacy school and honestly decides on medicine then that is one thing. But to specifically go to pharmacy school as preparation for medical school is not ethical and will hurt your chances of getting in med school if truth be known. And to apply to both type schools without disclosing ( or even if disclosing) could possibly keep you out of both unless you can give each admission committee a great explanation. The commitments involved in each profession are not the same.

my $0.02

carpe
 
good points carpe...i would add i think the reason why so many people apply to both types of schools is that they want to go into medicine but aren't sure if they can get in (in which case they would rather go to pharmacy than wait or choose a different field). i agree that the ideal student to either field would be one who is solely committed to that field to the point of being unwilling to consider others, but in reality it probably doesn't work that way for many people who fall in this situation.

personally, if i am not accepted, I would rather go to Europe for my medical education and come back for residency, even though I would likely not be competitive for the highest-demand specialties, but understandably most people would not consider leaving the states.
 
pharmprospect said:
tupac don…I agree with you that primary care doctors have it rough these days, especially early on in their practice. But I am not deluding myself, the $150,000 I quoted is being published by the U.S. Department of Labor in the OOH. In regards to what city, state, etc., these are national statistics. I mean seriously, where are you getting your stats from? I’m citing mine, are you just making all your stats up?

Regarding making quadruple a pharmacist, that is the upper upper percentage of doctors…but the potential is still there. If anesthesiologists make $300,000 as an average according to the Department of Labor, than above average is possible (though certainly an upper limit). I know a surgeon who makes over $500,000 net, so it is possible as a maximum. Where are you getting your stats from?

I agree with you that pharm graduate school is cheaper than med school, but I didn’t bring it up in order to keep the post simpler. Even if according to you it takes 5 years to break even, that still leaves the rest of your life. There is no way it would take a doctor 10 years to catch up like you said – we can certainly debate other points but I don’t see the basis for your claim. And I agree with you that a pharmacist earning $150,000 by working 7 nights a week and catching overtime on the week off is difficult to maintain. My mother is a nurse who used to work nights and I have seen myself how hard it can be on the body. Anyway, cite the source of your stats that $150,000 is a common salary for a night pharmacist.

If you can come up with evidence to back up your forceful claims, then do so. That way we can all learn from this thread. On the other hand, if you are just throwing stuff out there, please realize you are deluding yourself and detracting from people trying to make a proper decision. In that case I hope you retract your statements.
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Ok since you challenged me, I'll give you proof where I am quoting my sources.

1) Here is a compilation of 10 sources about salaries of physicians and this seems a lot more realistic than what you quote.
http://www.physicianssearch.com/physician/salary.html

2) Here is another site that cites much less for FP's
http://www.aafp.org/fpm/970700fm/salaried.html

3) Here is a survey of salaries for physicians their first year of practice and it is a lot less than the figures you quoted
http://www.physicianssearch.com/physician/salary1.html

You should really look at several sources before, you make bold and grandiose statements about salaries that are made. Yes there are physicians who make large sums of money. However, they are not new grads, and they have a developed practice and have been working for at least 10 years. As well that kind of money is made in rural areas or innercity areas and you work for that money. Nobody will hand you 500,000 dollars. You will piss blood to get it. Also the ones that make on the higher end of the avg, usually work in underserved rural areas or innercity urban areas. You won't be making that kind of cash in metropolitan cities like NYC, or LA.

I am a pharmacist so the figures I am quoting are not from statistics which are useless, but rather from personal experience and from friends and colleagues. Really that is the best way to know what physicians, pharmacists and any other professionals are making in the area you work at. Rather than looking at national avgs which are more or less useless. You on the other hand are just quoting numbers and averages. If you want to have a realistic pay for pharmacists, ask different people on this thread and see what figures they give you.

Second you said I made forcefull statements. Actually you are making very forceful statments how you choose medical school. Let's not forget one big detail, you did not even get into a medical school or pharmacy school for that matter. But here you are talking grandiose aobut making 300 thousands.
Hence you are not choosing, the choosing part would come into play if you got acceptedto both schools and then you choose.

Also lets not forget that specialites that do make big money, are difficult to get into and you need to perform in top 10% in order to be considered for them. Who is to say that you will even get into a lifestyle specialty. If you have to go to Europe to do medical school it will be very difficult for you to get into specialties where they are making big bucks.

Best of luck to you champ.
 
tupac don, you mentioned in your post, “I am a pharmacist so the figures I am quoting are not from statistics which are useless, but rather from personal experience…let’s not forget one big detail, you did not even get into a medical school or pharmacy school for that matter but here you are talking grandiose…you are not choosing, the choosing part would come into play if you got accepted into both schools and then you choose…If you have to go to Europe to do medical school it will be very difficult for you to get into specialties…best of luck to you champ.”

I could not have dreamed up a more condescending (and false) post if I tried. I don’t analyze your psychology or motivations, why have you attacked mine in your previous posts? And for your information, I graduated as the valedictorian of my high school along with a huge number of ECs. Directly out of high school, I was immediately accepted into five 6-year accelerated M.D. programs. But instead of jumping right in, I decided to get some experience in pharmacy which then I had only heard about, and hopefully spend some more time enjoying life and exploring other fields. I knew about medicine but I wanted to see what else was out there. Now I’m ready to apply again. I’m not the smartest kid in my college or even in most of my classes, but I am holding my own. It is time, tupac don, for you to stop making baseless claims.

tupac don, let’s begin with your first source. It’s 3 to 4 years old so we know right off the bat that the numbers are going to be low. 10 organizations were asked to participate in the survey. One of the member organizations that was part of this survey was the same provider of data that the Department of Labor verified and agreed to publish, so this survey and my data share a partly common base. Numbers from the American Medical Association, where present, agreed with the DOL source. The other organizations appear to give lower values but I checked a few of their websites for new numbers and found that they were significantly higher. For example, the HHCS average value for pediatrics is $20,000 higher on their website than it is in the survey. When you look at the more detailed data they provide, they break it down by region and several regions are extremely close (within $1,000) to the data I provided. Indeed, all of the participating organizations now have higher numbers than what is provided in this survey. The obvious question is, why did tupac don provide this old survey rather than the more current numbers?

Now let’s get to your second source, tupac don. I dispute whether the article that is your second source is still valid since it is 8 YEARS OLD. The source I cited is up-to-date. Are you really using 8 year old information in your posts…well, we can see the answer to that.

Further, the 8-year-old source states, “And while the survey results provide more hints than answers, they’re worth reviewing.” Not exactly a vote of confidence from the people who conducted the survey. Lastly, even your own source doesn’t mention anything that contradicts what I am saying. It says that according to its survey, all the family physicians put together had an average net income of $121,000 in 1995. Getting back to this century, what the Department of Labor published says they have an average net income of $150,000. Given the time difference, these numbers do not conflict.

The third source you cited is simply a survey that had only 753 voluntary responses for all 29 categories. That means each category had an average of only 26 responses. Plus, it is looking at only the starting salary for only the first year of medical practice when the doctors have had no time to establish a practice yet.

But hey look what I found! A survey by the very same organization for physicians in practice 3+ years (not the “at least 10 years” that you state in your most recent post). This one had 4 times as many responses, hence is more reliable data. And guess what, surprise surprise, the numbers are very close to what the Department of Labor published. I guess you “overlooked” this survey when you provided all the links in your post. Here, I’ll provide it:
http://www.physicianssearch.com/physician/salary2.html
 
pharmprospect said:
....I could not have dreamed up a more condescending (and false) post if I tried.....
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I do believe you succeeded in being more condescending, which is unfortunate.
 
if that's how you really feel, ForgetMeNot, then I better stop responding to this thread. I felt forced into it by tupac don's post, and I tried to defend my points without analyzing any personal characteristics, personal abilities and potential, and personal motivations as some others have done.

Anyway, this is a pre-pharm forum so I don't want to keep this thread up here forever. Tupac don (and anyone else), of course you are free to respond and I will listen to what you say. i'll respond only if you ask me to.

I think I've made my point anyway. :sleep:
 
Let's just cool all this nonsense on all fronts. A pissing contest is not what healthcare is about, who makes what and so forth...live your life making whatever you are lucky to take home, be whomever you wish to be, and make a difference wherever you have a chance to.


Anyways, I am glad to see things are remaining somewhat civil...agree to disagree.
 
I'd just like to add something to this post,
Why does money matter so much to you guys?
I would understand if you guys were McDonald workers getting paid about $15,000/year trying to get promoted to manager making $25,000/year where every dollar is vital for survival.

But comon, you guys are all probably going to be making over $100,000 a year which is good enough for any type of comfortable lifestyle.


Anyway, my opinion. I think that pharmacy is the way to go, especially if you want to drive to your 10th year highschool reunion with a nice MBenz and hold a afterparty at your $500,000 condo downtown. While if you choose the medicine route, you'll still PROBABLY be in over $200,000+ of debt.

The choice between these two respected professions shouldn't depend on money at all, in fact, like a few posters have already said, it should depend on what you feel called to do.
 
No way, I knew one that lived in a manufactured home, and his wife had to go to school to be a nail tech to get by.

I think they are huge differences in the professions earning potential. A 1st year pharmacist will make just as much (in most areas) as a pharm with 20 years of experience. A Doctor for 20 years will make 5 times as much a new doctor. So an average FP doc may make 150k, but a new one will not even come close.

No let me discuss school. I have an interview in two weeks to go to a pharm school in August of this year. The school (MWU-CPG) does not require a degree and I can name 10 people that go there right now that do not have a degree. The program is only 2 years and 10 months long. A year ago from right now, I did not have a single college credit. From January to January, I have completed 70 credit hours (with a very good GPA). If I get in, I'll complete all of my schooling in 4.5 years.

Thus, I will be making about 100k per year for those extra 5.5 years, totaling $550,000. In addition, I will not be racking up huge student loans for those other years.

Just thought I would add some additional points.
 
Anyway, my opinion. I think that pharmacy is the way to go, especially if you want to drive to your 10th year highschool reunion with a nice MBenz and hold a afterparty at your $500,000 condo downtown.
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Damn, I must be doing something wrong. I drove to mine in a 96' Saturn and went home to my 200K 1960's built home. I don't think that 100k goes as far as you all think....? Or maybe my wife is skimming some money into a secret bank account in the Cayman islands.

No matter how you cut it, with loans or without, a physicain is going to make a boatload more money than a pharmacist by the end of our respective careers. (Not saying how big the boat is or what monetary unit you use but still)
 
reason i'm doing pharmacy, they have much better hours than many doctors. you can have more of a family life.
 
I don't want to be a doctor because I don't want to do a digital rectal examination or check other males for testicular cancer.
 
If you are worried about money specialize in IVF or start selling rebuilt computers out of your dorm room.

It saddens me that people get into certain careers just for the chance to make lots of money. That's not what healthcare is about.

There are other pathways to financial security like setting up IRAs and investing your money wisely - you don't need to get all of your money from a paycheck.

Healthcare is about making our communities better. Healing the sick and wounded, and giving to those who are in need. It's not about how much money can be made or who drives the nicest car. I know some physicians who come to the outpatient surgical center I work at who achieve their greatest sense of satisfaction and accomplishment through the pro bono work that they do with the poor and underprivileged.

Pursuing a career in healthcare based mainly on the pursuit of financial security isn't doing anyone any favors.
 
soopapharm said:
If you are worried about money specialize in IVF or start selling rebuilt computers out of your dorm room.

It saddens me that people get into certain careers just for the chance to make lots of money. That's not what healthcare is about.

There are other pathways to financial security like setting up IRAs and investing your money wisely - you don't need to get all of your money from a paycheck.

Healthcare is about making our communities better. Healing the sick and wounded, and giving to those who are in need. It's not about how much money can be made or who drives the nicest car. I know some physicians who come to the outpatient surgical center I work at who achieve their greatest sense of satisfaction and accomplishment through the pro bono work that they do with the poor and underprivileged.

Pursuing a career in healthcare based mainly on the pursuit of financial security isn't doing anyone any favors.
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There's nothing wrong the primary reason you choose a profession is the money. Afterall, the main point of working is to make money, so it makes sense to maximize what your time and effort pays. Amercians have the right to pursue happiness including the accumulation of money. Just because a person wants to make a lot of money does not mean he cannot also be a good physician, pharmacist, or whatever.
 
i'm going to break my promise and jump in again for one post just because there is something important i forgot to mention (but hopefully is obvious) for prospective pre-pharms, pre-meds, etc, for whom I created this thread in the first place.

In addition to interest that I also mentioned, a prospective graduate student should take a look at their personality characteristics (this, by the way, was what my original pharmacy vs. doctor characteristics post was about).

Two resources I found valuable towards this end were http://www.assessment.com which analyzes your attributes and gives a percentile ranking to the best jobs you are suited for. Another resource is a book called "Please Understand Me - Character & Temperament Types" by David Keirsey and Marilyn Bates.

You should take what these resources say as advice instead of truth, although they can be surprisingly accurate. For example, if you are especially introverted or especially extroverted, that may shift your decision between pharmacy and medicine.

In regards to why money is important in a profession for me, I don't intend to use any extra money for unusual luxuries or super-expensive cars. Like the previous poster said, I want to maximize the product of my time and effort if there are no other overruling reasons to go into a lower-paying profession. I could use that money to contribute to charitable organizations in my community, my religion, or even helping poor or underprivileged people get a college education. Of course there needs to be a balance between your own needs and what you give away, but you shouldn't assume people want to be in a higher earning profession just so they can drive fancy cars. So, if you are a generous-hearted person, how much you earn can have a real impact on the well-being of others. And, again as I said in my original post, money is an important factor but not the only factor.
 
ApothRM said:
I battled with the idea of going to med school when i was in undergrad. As a matter of fact i had full intention in attending med school. However, somewhere along the line i got turned on to pharmacy, the career , the science, and the profession. After shadowing a few pharmacists, who each worked in different aspects of pharmacy, i was then able to compare those experiences with the clinical experiences i had obtain while working as an emt in a emergency room.

BY this time it was obvious, pharmacy was for me. I knew i would loose out on the possibility of making 300 or even 500k a year, and the thought of working in a much less clinical environment did affect me somewhat. However, I knew i would find my niche in such a promising career.

In my opinion, many of these med vs pharm vs dent vs opt threads, are just a students poor attempt in trying to convince themselves they are making the right decision in choosing whatever they choose.
We all must remember that we are all blessed to be as gifted as we are to be able to be choosing between such respected professions.

My friends money comes and goes. Find something that makes u breathe deeper in the morning, because i can assure you the money won't.

Goodluck to all :thumbup:
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amen to that! money does come and go. 300-500k? surgeons? derms? you know you actually have to get into those residencies to becomes surgeons who make 300-500k? and that is get those positions in places you want? i could just try my luck at 'apprentice' and get that ~$200K job with The Donald.
there is no right or wrong or rank about any job/career/calling. what are your priorities and does the life you chose to have satisfy you? does it make you happy? can you have the lifestyle you want? those are the questions you should be asking yourself when you pick a profession. respect? i have respect for those people who sell flowers on the streetlights. they chose to live a hard and honest living instead doing something illegal but easy. respect doesn't come with title at the end of your name. that is something you have to earn. you can have a medical degree but you do not have anyone's trust and respect as a doctor unless you prove yourself to be worthy of it.
if you are so concern about money, think about this. as a doctor, you have to sell your service. as a pharmacist you can sell your service and product. guess what? you can sell more products/person than a doctor can meet a patient one to one. guess what? you see those patients once in awhile as a doctor. at the pharmacy you pick up your 3 months supply of diabetic drugs for the rest of your life. many baby boomers are taking 6+ pills/day plus tons of over the counter meds. do the math! the possibility to make more money is in pharmacy not medicine.

i chose my profession b/c i wanted my lifestyle to be certain way and pharmacy does that for me. i am happy. i wake up each morning happy to be where i am. b/c of it, i am a better pharmacist to the people i care for.
i hope you think about those things in your life. like many others on this forum, people change and with those changes they chose different paths to take b/c it's the right thing for them. don't pick a career b/c other people think it is.
 
It's true that only the top-tier of students get the good residencies. My A&P teacher recently graduated from med school. She told me that to get dermatology or radiology you needed to be top 5%. The reason she chose to teach was that she couldn't stand the surgeons laughing and joking when a patient died. She placed a high regard on life, not just human as she was a vegetarian, and couldn't stand the attitude of other doctors.
 
dgroulx said:
It's true that only the top-tier of students get the good residencies. My A&P teacher recently graduated from med school. She told me that to get dermatology or radiology you needed to be top 5%. The reason she chose to teach was that she couldn't stand the surgeons laughing and joking when a patient died. She placed a high regard on life, not just human as she was a vegetarian, and couldn't stand the attitude of other doctors.
Click to expand...


Top 5% isnt true at all.
 
This whole thread is something else. Everything in life could be decided by pros and cons. This kind of reminds me of a situation: Imagine telling your friend that you've found the career for you. You tell your friend that you've decided medicine is for you. Your friend starts giving a list of pros and cons for medicine. Then, your friend tells you that you should have worked harder to improve your basketball game to pursue a career in the NBA. Your friend starts telling you about the perks of being an NBA superstar. Now how would this make you feel? If one wanted to make a lot of money they should tryout for the NBA or try to get a record deal. The alternative to pharmacy is not just medicine, but a whole host of different career opportunities. The point is if medicine makes you happy then pursue it. Whatever you do in life, do it well. Then, success will follow.
 
Why not become a pharmacist and do real estate investing on the side on your days off? One can become a millionaire in a few short years doing that... I know, I've seen the power of investing in this arena. Lot's of potential for $$$. I know for a lot of people it's about making the money, but there are many ways of making money without being a doctor. Just my two cents on this topic... :thumbup:
 
OK, my two cents. Generally speaking, most docs make 150K-250K. Above 250K would be icing on the cake and quite rare for a typical doc.

* yes anesthesiologists and ob-gyn and orthopedic surgeons make good money, but remember most anesthesiologists take call every 3rd night, delivering babies is back-breaking work and you have to be paranoid about malpractice suits and ortho is an extremely difficult and demanding specialty to enter.

Do you realize the amount of work, studying and effort it takes to become a neurosurgeon or brain surgeon? So let's just assume that docs that make 251K-750K are uncommon and unusual, only for people who are willing to work their life away or are extremely lucky.

NOW, take the docs that make 150K-250K. The average physician works 56 HOURS A WEEK. Let's not forget that docs must generally put in 100+ hour weeks for 6 years (year 3 of med school to the end of residency). And being a physician is generally far more stressful.

Calculate this on an hourly (and effort) basis, and a pharmacist making 100-110K vs an MD who makes 170-180K a year is getting paid similar amounts based on hours/effort. In other words, if a pharmacist was willing to work like a doc, (put in an extra 16 hours a week, take shifts during evenings and weekends AND take on a lot of extra stress as a pharmacy manager, they'd make about 160K a year, too)

Finally, let's not forget that pharmacists do not have a 110K ceiling. A pharmacist can ALWAYS PICK UP EXTRA SHIFTS, at about $50 an hour on evenings, weekends and holidays. And pharmacists can also work for pharmaceutical companies, for HMO's, in health care administration, as pharmd lawyers, etc. Working your way to the top of any of these corporate entities can bring a salary or 110K-180K for the hard working and 300K-400K for the hard working and lucky.

So let's just put it this way, being and MD is only truly beneficial if you become a highly paid specialist. A primary care doc's advantages are few. Of course, you should pick the career that you feel well-suited to, not just its financial benefits.
 
pharmerted, thanks for your very good post. however, even if you break it down to an hourly basis, doctors still make more money. In the beginning during medical school and residency is the toughest time, but over the next decade to two decades to three decades its impact on overall hourly earnings is not as severe as you seem to suggest. i cannot stress enough though that you should not go into medicine just for the money - but this is (hopefully) true for all healthcare professions.

i would like to add that it is not as difficult to get a specialty as some people may have imagined. I remember seeing a few months ago an analysis by SDN about all the residencies, and some specialties that earn significant money aren't supercompetitive (in fact a few specialties were ranked at low competitiveness and all spots are not filled each year). Granted these specialties aren't like surgery or dermatology, but you can still triple a pharmacist. Personally I wouldn't mind working as an FP. They do O.K.

also to verify the salary figures I quoted previously, another source could be www.salary.com. Other posters have said this is a fairly reliable source. I haven't taken the time to actually look into it, but I am sure the numbers it provides will be closer to mine than they are to tupac don's.

I didn't intend to focus so much on money, but that seems to be the point of contention. It's a weak point to use in favor of pharmacy, IMHO.
 
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