changing from medicine to dentistry

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giants500

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I am a medical school graduate in my 2nd of year of residency but I am having a change of heart and looking to go into Dentistry. Does anyone know which dental schools I could contact regarding this, I don't want to go through the traditional application cycle and looking to skip alot of the science courses (with the exception of dental anatomy ofcourse)..since I have completed those and passed the USMLE already. Please PM me if you could be of any help to me.
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giants500 said:
I am a medical school graduate in my 2nd of year of residency but I am having a change of heart and looking to go into Dentistry. Does anyone know which dental schools I could contact regarding this, I don't want to go through the traditional application cycle and looking to skip alot of the science courses (with the exception of dental anatomy ofcourse)..since I have completed those and passed the USMLE already. Please PM me if you could be of any help to me.
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Dude....(or dudete)...You have invested sooo much in medicine...4 years, Boards 1...2...3, residency (in it now). Unless you absolutely hate what your are doing, I'd stay with it. I've heard of programs in dentistry that are DDS/MD programs like the Oral surgery with extended residency (I think its like 6 years instead of 4 and u get an MD too). I have not heard of it going the other way but maybe there is such a program like that. I know my felow D-students may crucify me for saying this but the dental boards are in many ways similar to the USMLE but NOT THE SAME. For example, first aid step 1 for USMLE has useful info for the dental boards part 1.

I hope that helps..eventhough it may have sounded like I was thinking outloud...well....ok I was.

best of luck.
 
Thanks for your reply..I have been thinking about it for some time and think that I would be happier in dentistry. I know that i have put extensive work in to Medicine..considering I am in my 2nd year of residency but I keep thinking it is the rest of my life. I have tried to call different schools but most schools have no clue as to what I am even talking about because before even allowing me to finish explaining my situation..they just reply with oh apply through ASDSAS..which I don't have the time to do considering I am in a demanding residency.
 
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giants500 said:
I am a medical school graduate in my 2nd of year of residency but I am having a change of heart and looking to go into Dentistry. Does anyone know which dental schools I could contact regarding this, I don't want to go through the traditional application cycle and looking to skip alot of the science courses (with the exception of dental anatomy ofcourse)..since I have completed those and passed the USMLE already. Please PM me if you could be of any help to me.
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are you a graduate of an american medical school? if you are, then i suggest you make the time to approach the dean of the dental school, not the admissions office. i am sorry that you're in this situation. it's gotta suck big time. anyways, have you looked into other options for meds? an MD opens many doors for you. you can be a writer, a journalist, a professor at med-school, a hospital administrator (u'll need an MBA for that probably)...i just wonder whether you'd have the energy to go through at least 3 years of dental school (1 year for preclinical and 2 for clinic). dental school is very physical. the 3 and 4th years are always on the move. in the first 2 years, dents are constantly trying to juggle things in between didactic and pre-clinical stuff. dental school is very busy. i hope you realize what you're aspiring to get into. good luck either way. make sure you really want this
 
You could probably find a dental school that would allow you to come directly into the beginning of the 2nd year curriculum, assuming med school basic sciences could suffice for most of the dental school basic sciences, but I doubt you can hope for much better than that. Med School and Dental School currricula are not really very similar. Most schools would probably want you to just do the full 4 years to avoid the trouble of trying to determine equivalencies...

I would recommend contacting multiple dental schools and speaking directly with the Dean of Admissions to explain your situation. You may have to be persistent, because your situation is uncommon and to get any special accomodations will take significant effort on the part of the Dental school administration.

Good luck. Dentistry is a great career. Especially if you want to run your own business on a daily basis.
 
fightingspirit said:
i suggest you make the time to approach the dean of the dental school, not the admissions office.
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I second that. . . Deans tend to be able to get things done. Call him/her up, or better yet, try to arrange a short face to face meeting to convince him/her that you are sincere. Get the Dean on your side and you will be fasttracked through the process.
 
Jaybe said:
You could probably find a dental school that would allow you to come directly into the beginning of the 2nd year curriculum, assuming med school basic sciences could suffice for most of the dental school basic sciences, but I doubt you can hope for much better than that. Med School and Dental School currricula are not really very similar.....
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As someone who has completed both medical and dental school, this is true. There is no way around the 3rd and 4th years of dental school. And the 4th year is a FULL 4th year....at my med school there were only 4 required months and 4 more elective months. I finished my 4th year dental graduation requirements only about 3 weeks before graduation.

Also, the first 2 years are only half basic sciences. There's an equal amount of courseload for dental courses. I could see cramming the 1st 2 years of dental coursework into 1 year, but there's no way to go directly into the 3rd year....you will start your first day (as a 3rd year) doing procedures which the rest of us practiced for 2 years in the labs.

So at best, I would guess they could trim off the first year. But this is obviously the dean's decision, not mine.
 
Hi...to reply to some of the comments posted. I know that I will have to do a minimum of 3 years..which I am perfectly okay with b/c I know that dental courses are dispersed throughout the 4 years. My wife is actually in dental school. I am just looking to see if someone has done this or has some advice on how to go about contacting schools because like I said...I have tried contacting so many schools and the admission people to be honest have no clue as to what I am even asking it seems. I try to explain that I have successfully completed medical school..and I am a US graduate of an MD school...I am in residency at the time...and I am looking to seek admission into dental school but skip the traditional application process and possibly get out of the basic science courses...not any of the dental anatomy etc because I defintely know that I need to take those...but some way to atleast surpass the 1st year which is alot of science stuff..and possibly start as a 2nd year. I have no problem with going back to school and completing 3 years of school..I just don't really know how to get schools to even listen to my situation without giving me a generic reply of..oh just apply through ASDSAS. I have tried writing so many emails but with no response either. Please help if you know someone that did this and at what school...because I am really looking to target schools which are familiar with my situation and can understand what I am trying to do. Thanks for everyone's advice and responses.
 
I think this is really neat. It's never too late to do what you love. Go for it! Just start cold calling/emailing schools. I think there are a bunch of schools that would have major hard-ons for your educational history.
 
There are a few oral surgery programs with dental schools who have taken MD grads. Although this track is setup for oral surgery residents, at least these places have dealt with this to some extent. The ones I know off the top of my head are

Michigan
Louisville, KY
Alabama (at Birmingham)
Baylor (Dallas)

I might even try to contact the oral surgery program directors at these schools. They are the ones who established these routes with the dental schools.
 
I agree with the idea of talking 1 on 1 with a dean. Your case is kind of rare. Hence, dont rely on google searches alone to guide you.
 
I would look at Case Western.. there was that post not that long ago about a 5 year DMD/MD program.. I would contact them for sure.
 
I heard Columbia Dental takes in Columbia Med students who have a change of heart. I don't have any more details than this, sorry :(
 
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giants500 said:
Thanks for your reply..I have been thinking about it for some time and think that I would be happier in dentistry. I know that i have put extensive work in to Medicine..considering I am in my 2nd year of residency but I keep thinking it is the rest of my life. I have tried to call different schools but most schools have no clue as to what I am even talking about because before even allowing me to finish explaining my situation..they just reply with oh apply through ASDSAS..which I don't have the time to do considering I am in a demanding residency.
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dont do it bro. stick with medicine
 
don't do it man, dental school blows big time. dentistry is awesome, but dental school...seriously blows, i don't recommend it to anyone.
 
Unless you hate Medicine and you get up from bed everyday not wanting to practice it, I dont think that its a good time for a change of heart. It is very much the case for many people that they dont get into the # 1 profession of their choice but that does not make choice # 2 a terrible one at all. Now I know that you haven't mentioned it being terrible. Furthermore, your interest in dentistry shows that you probably dont mind medicine that much because they are very close diciplines. You have invested so much time, money, effort, and all-nighters to get to where you are now. Your decision may require you to relocate. If you have family, this could influence your decision. If you got into and achieved so much in the # 2 profession of your choice, you have a lot to be happy and thankfull about.

wish you luck.
 
Seriously speaking to the OP, before you decide to make this decision do see a pyschiatrist to make sure you're emotionally stable. You dont want to finish dental school too just to decide you want to due law school after your done too.
 
You mentioned wanting to skip the "traditional application cycle" but I doubt that's possible. For example, I know someone in physical therapy and they still had to apply, and I'm sure others with strong medical backgrounds were not exempt either. Bucking such a long standing and cemented process as the AADSAS is unlikely, and if admissions people are telling you that is the only route. . . they're probably right. Most likely it has nothing to do with your science competency but more to do with the rigorous and competitive nature of getting accepted into dental school!

As far as deciding to go for a career change, that is a whole different issue. Only you can decide if it's worth the tremendous effort to try to do so.
 
There is an advanced standing program here for US trained MDs at Columbia. We have at least 1 or 2 in each class now. Although I am very jaded lately with Columbia's dental school, there are definately some options here if you REALLY want to go into dentistry. Good Luck.
 
What is this, you don't have time to apply for AADSAS stuff? Come on guy, you need to work within the system before you ask for special consideration. You think you're going to waltz in with an MD. Have you any idea the competition to get in? Lots of qualified people won't make it in this year. I'd lose the attitude and start off a little more humble, people will appreciate your MD more.
 
I dont precieve him/her as bieng cocky in anyway. The competition to get in dentistry is very hard but this person obviously jumped high hurdles like we have. They have achieved alot. Some people get into dental school and figure out that its not right for them and they drop outta it (its more common than you think). For him/her to be coming from another profession and be willing to go through all of that (study day and night), means a great deal. It means that he/she is either psychotic (...I'm sorry but I'm listing all possibbilities..nothing personal), or has found out his true passion in life. The op mentioned that they are in thier residency, I mentioned this issue to a few friends over lunch who are MDs and their thought was something along the lines of (residentcy can do that to you, it can change the way you think and that the op should finish residency or swith it to another residency ) I think that before everything, you should find out the possibility of it happening. Talking 1 on 1 with the dean will help you cut to the chase.


Rube said:
What is this, you don't have time to apply for AADSAS stuff? Come on guy, you need to work within the system before you ask for special consideration. You think you're going to waltz in with an MD. Have you any idea the competition to get in? Lots of qualified people won't make it in this year. I'd lose the attitude and start off a little more humble, people will appreciate your MD more.
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nygiants seems fairly sincere to me. it's a reasonable question to ask - why go thru (and pay for) all the basic sciences again. to answer the question, i would contact schools that have fully integrated md/dental basic science teaching, and/or have a MD oral surgery program. man, i really doubt the dean will make any time for you though. emailing the higher ups in admissions should give you an idea. uconn, columbia come to mind, and that new case program. be warned though, if you've had any academic problems in the past, dent admissions WILL find out about it!!!
 
So he doesn't want to do the sciences again . . . who does! Lots of the people who've applied have a strong background in science (ie - academic & professionally) But they aren't exempt from the application process! But who knows . . . I could be wrong. So I guess it's in his best interest to double check. But from his own admission, he's been bugging admissions and AADSAS is what they're telling him to do. I would imagine that after interviewing and/or being accepted, is the time to inquire about special treatment.
 
I think some of you who think I am trying to be cocky b/c I am not wanting to go through the 'traditional' process are being a bit obnoxious. I'm sorry if I don't have the time to go through a traditional process because I am in demanding residency that I have 1 day off every 7 days..and I work form 6am to 8pm. I think some of you might have a complex. I am simply seeking advice on here...not asking for criticism. I didn't have any academic problems in medical school..I just am having a change of heart. Like I said my wife is in dental school and I have a genuine interest in the field.
 
giants500 said:
I think some of you who think I am trying to be cocky b/c I am not wanting to go through the 'traditional' process are being a bit obnoxious. I'm sorry if I don't have the time to go through a traditional process because I am in demanding residency that I have 1 day off every 7 days..and I work form 6am to 8pm. I think some of you might have a complex. I am simply seeking advice on here...not asking for criticism. I didn't have any academic problems in medical school..I just am having a change of heart. Like I said my wife is in dental school and I have a genuine interest in the field.
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Its called inferiority complex bud, and unfortunately many dentists have it. To be honest with you, I say just gut it out. I know residency is brutal, but I feel that there is light at the end of the tunnel. Just imagine throwing all those years away for nothing. I just can't see myself doing it if I spent that much time and effort into something. Just my thoughts
 
Brutally honest: I don't think you deserve any special treatment for going through medical school and being in a residency. You need to start over and apply like everyone else (engineers, teachers, etc.) who had a career change of heart. Of course, this is the place to find the one, maybe two schools that will let you skip a year, but more likely you will start over and at best skip a few classes. Good luck.
 
psiyung said:
Its called inferiority complex bud, and unfortunately many dentists have it. To be honest with you, I say just gut it out. I know residency is brutal, but I feel that there is light at the end of the tunnel. Just imagine throwing all those years away for nothing. I just can't see myself doing it if I spent that much time and effort into something. Just my thoughts
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although i agree with you in terms of med residency's potential to cloud one's judgement and perhaps make him conider alternative careers due to the brutal nature of it, i disagree with the nonsensical statement you made regarding how "many dentists have it (inferiority complex)"...many of us are in dentistry because we like reality more than idealism..because we value many things other than prestige, or simply because after doing some creative math and logic, we came to the conclusion that medicine in the long run will most likely take away from us way more than it will give us back, not a complex...just common sense....i would say that your initial post, which went like this "don't do it bro" without any elaboration is a tone that is more likely associated with an inferiority complex than rube's post.

i dont think giant is obnoxious at all. i am , as i said, sorry that he is going through this plight after having completed an MD program. he's someone who's just trying to find a way out of a trap. on the other hand, i can imagine why rube would think of giant as obnoxious. after all, while many med-students/physicians are decent affable individuals, a big majority of them tend to be arrogant pricks who think that arrogance and condescension is the best way to vent out the pain and desperation of their failed expectations. sadly, the good ones sometimes get mixed up with the bad ones. whatever decision giant takes, i hope he finds inner peace.
 
Thanks for everyone's advice. I am not trying to cause an debate about medicine vs dentistry..both are great fields with alot to offer. I simply wanted some advice from those who may have heard about people doing this b/c naturally if I can get out of some of the science courses and not apply through ASDSAS it would help me out financially..that simple. I am not trying to beat the system..or looking for an easy way out. I fully understand that nothing comes easy and dental school is competitve as well. I appreciate all those that have given me advice.
 
giants500 said:
I think some of you who think I am trying to be cocky b/c I am not wanting to go through the 'traditional' process are being a bit obnoxious. I'm sorry if I don't have the time to go through a traditional process because I am in demanding residency that I have 1 day off every 7 days..and I work form 6am to 8pm. I think some of you might have a complex. I am simply seeking advice on here...not asking for criticism. I didn't have any academic problems in medical school..I just am having a change of heart. Like I said my wife is in dental school and I have a genuine interest in the field.
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So, your wife is in Dental school - can she warm up to people in the admissions office and ask them what they think?
 
She tried to talk to her school but didn't really get anywhere. I was hoping to target schools which have done this before. If I applied through ASDSAS, I would need to take the DAT, then apply to schools and interview for next year's application cycle. This stuff costs alot of money and if I can talk with schools who will allow me to skip the DAT etc..I would prefer to do that.
 
giants500 said:
She tried to talk to her school but didn't really get anywhere. I was hoping to target schools which have done this before. If I applied through ASDSAS, I would need to take the DAT, then apply to schools and interview for next year's application cycle. This stuff costs alot of money and if I can talk with schools who will allow me to skip the DAT etc..I would prefer to do that.
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Honestly, if this is what you really want to do, you should just look up the website that lists all of the dental schools

http://www.adea.org/DMS/InstLinks/default.htm

and just start at the top of the list, and call each school and talk to them. I don't know if anybody here would be able to give a definitive answer to your question. The schools will be able to though.
 
What do I know, but.... I don't think you are going to get much special treatment on this. Taking the DAT is a REQUIREMENT for admissions to dental school. I am pretty sure that this is a requirement for the schools accreditation. There is a VERY slim chance that you could bypass the first year as said before, but I doubt it.

At the end of the day... If this is what you REALLY want a few extra years is not going to make or break you. When you are sittin on your porch when you are 65. The fact that it took a few more years to get where you wanted to be wont make much difference.

-C
 
giants500 said:
I am not trying to beat the system..or looking for an easy way out.
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I fully understand that AADSAS is inefficient and expensive. But let me know if you find a single person that did not apply through it or a single person that did not take the DAT. Of course it would save time and money not to do it, but everyone has to do it. (Sometimes things need to be repeated over and over before they sink in.)
 
SuperC said:
What do I know, but.... I don't think you are going to get much special treatment on this. Taking the DAT is a REQUIREMENT for admissions to dental school. I am pretty sure that this is a requirement for the schools accreditation. There is a VERY slim chance that you could bypass the first year as said before, but I doubt it.

At the end of the day... If this is what you REALLY want a few extra years is not going to make or break you. When you are sittin on your porch when you are 65. The fact that it took a few more years to get where you wanted to be wont make much difference.

-C
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dentists who go thru advanced standing med school as part of OMFS program don't have to take the MCATs. neither do internationals as part of advanced standing at dental school. so if you get advanced standing no DAT. if you start from scratch then probably DAT. accreditation involves the training in dental school, not admissions policies.
 
OMFS is a program in place and the standards for admissions have been set.

I guess you are right in FTD programs, but in order to gain admission you must have graduated from a dental school not in the US.

-C
 
In order to be eligible to apply for the OMFS program, you have to have completed a dental degree. There are other requirements as well but they differ depending on the school. For example, some also require a certain score on the National Dental Board Examination.

There are combined M.D./OMFS programs, but I think you have to be enrolled from the very beginning because it's such a specific program.
 
It seems as though you are having a hard time conveying what you want, which might be your problem. I agree, you should try to contact a Dean, someone with more authority to make this type of decision.

However, you need to be more forward. Seems to me, that all you have to say is:

I am a medical student and in my 2nd year of residency, my objective is to switch to dentistry. Is it possible for me to do this without having to complete all the course a 1st year student does, since I have an extensive background in medicine?

Good Luck!
 
For what its worth... Dentistry is a great profession...If you are a 2nd year resident there should be no problem dealing with the changes, if anything it will be a relief.
 
shabu2 said:
There is an advanced standing program here for US trained MDs at Columbia. We have at least 1 or 2 in each class now. Although I am very jaded lately with Columbia's dental school, there are definately some options here if you REALLY want to go into dentistry. Good Luck.
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I'm pretty sure Columbia takes more than just Columbia Med students. I know that currently there are 7 or 8 physicians completing Columbia's DDS program so they are definitely a good place to start. I also agree that you could probably get advanced standing (even though you're not from out of the US), and you really shouldn't have to take the DAT... I don't know why everyone is giving you such a hard time about your situation.
 
diane07 said:
In order to be eligible to apply for the OMFS program, you have to have completed a dental degree. There are other requirements as well but they differ depending on the school. For example, some also require a certain score on the National Dental Board Examination.

There are combined M.D./OMFS programs, but I think you have to be enrolled from the very beginning because it's such a specific program.
Click to expand...

There are a few programs out there that have taken MD grads into DDS/MD programs. It is true that a dental degree is reqiured for the specialty (MD is optional) but I don't think it matters which one you get first.
 
SuperC said:
What do I know, but.... I don't think you are going to get much special treatment on this. Taking the DAT is a REQUIREMENT for admissions to dental school. I am pretty sure that this is a requirement for the schools accreditation. There is a VERY slim chance that you could bypass the first year as said before, but I doubt it.

At the end of the day... If this is what you REALLY want a few extra years is not going to make or break you. When you are sittin on your porch when you are 65. The fact that it took a few more years to get where you wanted to be wont make much difference.

-C
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Is it? Since the foreign grads doing the advanced placement programs get the same DDS you will but don't have to take the DAT, I think it's possible that there can be exceptions to the rule. Heck, althought I started dental school 7 years ago, I didn't have to take the DAT - I got in with one of those exceptions (although I was not exceptional like the OP is).

It sounds like you just need to get your case heard to the right people and have a convincing reason of why you want to go to dental school. I'd go with the e-mail celica777 suggested, but also add something like "If not at your school, then do you know of any programs where this is possible for me?" Although some school's might stick to their rules and not allow you to skip courses, the dean might know of another school where his buddy is the dean and they allow it. It doesn't seem right that you'd have to take the DAT and mess around with AADSAS (except as a formality if they make you) when clearly you passed the MCAT and USMLE and are way beyond what the DAT would test you.

Good luck!
 
So, in summary, I have heard your different options:

1) Foreign trained dentists get to bypass the first two years, but they went to dental school in a foreign country
2) OMFS programs also attend medical school, so you obviously would not have to re-attend the medical school portion, but still have to do the DDS portion and the residency.
3) Look for the DDS/MD programs
4) Look at the schools that the first two years are very similar to medical school, most will be DMD (Harvard and Columbia come to mind, but I don't know anything specific about them).
5) Calling random schools that follow the traditional course - this option seems to not be working.
 
dentalman . . .

Foreign trained dentists don't get to "bypass" the first two years at just any dental school. Certain schools offer International Dentist Degree Programs that are designed for dentists trained outside the US. Students go through a two year course of study after which they receive a DDS degree. These programs have their own specific application process, and only accept a few students each year. Foreign dentists aren't applying through AADSAS, they're applying directly to schools that have this program.

OMFS is a specialty. In order to be eligible to apply for the OMFS program, you have to have completed a dental degree. There are other requirements as well but they differ depending on the school. For example, some also require a certain score on the National Dental Board Examination.

I imagine that it's a very few select schools that offer MD/DDS type programs. They probably have their own specific application requirements. You'd have to do research to find out what schools have an accelerated or advanced program. But most dental schools don't offer anything of the sort, so for those applying to dentistry in general . . . they're going through AADSAS.
 
This may be impossible, but if you can figure out a way to take NBDE part one, you would not have a problem passing 3 out of the 4 sections and you could pass dental anatomy if you spent the time studying kaplan/decks. Being allowed to take the test would be the hurdle, but if you had a passing score on NBDE part 1 under your cap you might open some more doors to bypass a portion of dental school. Just a random idea.
 
diane07 said:
dentalman . . .

Foreign trained dentists don’t get to “bypass” the first two years at just any dental school. Certain schools offer International Dentist Degree Programs that are designed for dentists trained outside the US. Students go through a two year course of study after which they receive a DDS degree. These programs have their own specific application process, and only accept a few students each year. Foreign dentists aren’t applying through AADSAS, they’re applying directly to schools that have this program.

OMFS is a specialty. In order to be eligible to apply for the OMFS program, you have to have completed a dental degree. There are other requirements as well but they differ depending on the school. For example, some also require a certain score on the National Dental Board Examination.

I imagine that it’s a very few select schools that offer MD/DDS type programs. They probably have their own specific application requirements. You’d have to do research to find out what schools have an accelerated or advanced program. But most dental schools don’t offer anything of the sort, so for those applying to dentistry in general . . . they’re going through AADSAS.
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Obviously option 1 and 2 are not really options. I just wanted to be a little more helpful. But you same conclusion I did. Find a DDS/MD program, or do it the normal way.
 
Of course, 95% of schools will probably think that you are full of yourself if you ask to skip the first year. So you run the risk of looking like a prick at every school except the select few who might. Just a warning!
 
Revised post . . . your best bet is to do your own research to find out what works for you.

And like I said before, I do wish you luck. Wishing you the best!
 
why don't you try talking to deans at some of the schools that start the first two years off with med students (i.e. Harvard, UConn)? They probably could be more helpful than a traditional dental school.
 
diane07 said:
dentalman - you hit the nail on the head!

Why people keep suggesting he can try to buck the system is beyond me. But I guess people are drawing on their creative jucies, which is not a bad thing but not helpful if it's not a viable option.
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Because there are dental students/dentists out there who did "buck the system" to get to where they are today. You may not know them. Some of them are qualified people, some of them maybe not so much. But, the OP sounds like one of the people in the qualified category. Because there are dental schools where med & dental students take the same exact basic science classes & exams, it's not unreasonable at all for the OP to search for a way to skip a few classes and get ahead given his background.
 
It makes sense that a school would be able to put together a fast track for someone like you. Yr 1 and 2 of dental school you should be able to take in 1 yr, all you would need is the preclinical classes and a few of the dental science classes. Then that would shoot you right into yr 3, and you would be right with everyone else, plus you would have a lot more patient interaction experience and your medical background would be excellent I think. Some people on this forumn can be real jerks I think.
Good luck. This is not the place to find answeres like those I believe. You do need to call the admissions dept at all of the scholls that you are interested in.
 
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