12+ Interviews and No Match or SOAP, How to strengthen application for next cycle?

[Mass Effect]

I'm not going to go back and forth with a medical student. You think you know best, that's fine. I would be cautious about having this attitude with your attendings in residency. Best of luck.

Translation: I don't know the answer to your question.

Ok...

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[Old&InTheWay]

I don't want to burn bridges with my program and end up getting terminated. To me that sounds a hell of a lot more risky and dangerous. In either case, I loved mainly working with pts who were depressed, anxious, and were non-psychotic. I think I'll happily see a lot of these.

Palliative.

 

[Piebaldi]

Translation: I don't know the answer to your question.

Ok...

Ok. Good luck when you are coming to the board for help when you are about to get terminated. Challenge your attendings despite being warned = unlikely to finish residency. Don't say no one warned you.
It's fine if it makes you feel great thinking Psych is so incredibly competitive. Makes no difference to me. It always amazes me to see people come to the forum and then question everything they are told.
I don't need numbers to know what's basic. Yes, I have no doubt that there are more applicants to say now than 5 years ago. That's for every field. But relative competitiveness for specialties has remained roughly the same. But again if it makes you feel better to believe otherwise that is your choice.

End of discussion.

 

[PsychApp777]

Ok. Good luck when you are coming to the board for help when you are about to get terminated. Challenge your attendings despite being warned = unlikely to finish residency. Don't say no one warned you.
It's fine if it makes you feel great thinking Psych is so incredibly competitive. Makes no difference to me. It always amazes me to see people come to the forum and then question everything they are told.
I don't need numbers to know what's basic. Yes, I have no doubt that there are more applicants to say now than 5 years ago. That's for every field. But relative competitiveness for specialties has remained roughly the same. But again if it makes you feel better to believe otherwise that is your choice.

End of discussion.

You might want to consider the reddit post linked to below. In my opinion, it’s a pretty compelling argument for psych’s *relative* competitiveness having increased a lot recently.



P.S. Future psych applicants: Don’t let this discourage you. If you do your research, swallow your pride and apply wisely you should be able to match, even if you have red flags like me.

 

[Old&InTheWay]

Ok. Good luck when you are coming to the board for help when you are about to get terminated. Challenge your attendings despite being warned = unlikely to finish residency. Don't say no one warned you.
It's fine if it makes you feel great thinking Psych is so incredibly competitive. Makes no difference to me. It always amazes me to see people come to the forum and then question everything they are told.

Good luck having anyone actually respect you or what you have to say when you don’t enter into discussions in good faith and simply appeal to your authority as an attending. I’m sure your residents fall into line when you threaten them, but that doesn’t mean anyone’s actually listening to you.

 

[GEToutLADYits6AM]

@TexasPhysician What do you think the average step 1 score are places like utsw and JPS in fort worth?

 

[drkurapika]

Competitive specialties do in fact change. EM is now competitive. It used to be a safety. By definition, as a poster stated, having more interest than positions makes a specialty competitive.It is apparent that people need to apply to community and lower tier programs because of this. I dont think its "the new derm" but in terms of interest/spots, last year it was the most competitive specialty.

 

[Amygdarya]

Ok. Good luck when you are coming to the board for help when you are about to get terminated. Challenge your attendings despite being warned = unlikely to finish residency. Don't say no one warned you.
It's fine if it makes you feel great thinking Psych is so incredibly competitive. Makes no difference to me. It always amazes me to see people come to the forum and then question everything they are told.
I don't need numbers to know what's basic. Yes, I have no doubt that there are more applicants to say now than 5 years ago. That's for every field. But relative competitiveness for specialties has remained roughly the same. But again if it makes you feel better to believe otherwise that is your choice.

End of discussion.

You're throwing your authority as an attending as an argument? LOL.
Regardless or the argument and who is factually right, it turned pretty ugly on your side without any particular reason other than your anger at someone (on the Internet!) disagreeing with you.
I feel for your residents. And, before you tell me I'm going to get terminated for disrespect toward attendings, I have a lot of respect for my attendings. Because, among many other things, they don't get all hot and bothered at the slightest disagreement and certainly don't threaten residents with termination in cases of disagreement.

 

[Piebaldi]

You're throwing your authority as an attending as an argument? LOL.
Regardless or the argument and who is factually right, it turned pretty ugly on your side without any particular reason other than your anger at someone (on the Internet!) disagreeing with you.
I feel for your residents. And, before you tell me I'm going to get terminated for disrespect toward attendings, I have a lot of respect for my attendings. Because, among many other things, they don't get all hot and bothered at the slightest disagreement and certainly don't threaten residents with termination in cases of disagreement.

I am not your attending, but "know it all students and residents" get axed frequently for having lack of insight. I guess you all know it all and don't need to ask anything. I

 

[ridethecliche]

I too enjoy folks sticking to their gut feelings in the face of evidence.

Then pulling rank and calling someones background into question when they're wrong.

To my psych peers, I know a bunch of pmr folks and have a ton of attending friends in one of the best programs in the country... They're not like this. Anomalies in everything and there are apparently some very badass people on the internet!

In my thirty some odd years spinning around the sun, I've found it best to just mercilessly mock such people or just ignore them entirely. There's a pretty handy block function in this site if you don't want to waste time reading drivel...

 

[clausewitz2]

I am not your attending, but "know it all students and residents" get axed frequently for having lack of insight. I guess you all know it all and don't need to ask anything. I

So what part of your training and clinical experience gave you special insight into the psychiatry match?

I know laypeople confuse physiatry and psychiatry all the time but I don't think that counts.

@Mass Effect is not at all a medical student, btw

 

[Mass Effect]

Good luck having anyone actually respect you or what you have to say when you don’t enter into discussions in good faith and simply appeal to your authority as an attending. I’m sure your residents fall into line when you threaten them, but that doesn’t mean anyone’s actually listening to you.

You're throwing your authority as an attending as an argument? LOL.
Regardless or the argument and who is factually right, it turned pretty ugly on your side without any particular reason other than your anger at someone (on the Internet!) disagreeing with you.
I feel for your residents. And, before you tell me I'm going to get terminated for disrespect toward attendings, I have a lot of respect for my attendings. Because, among many other things, they don't get all hot and bothered at the slightest disagreement and certainly don't threaten residents with termination in cases of disagreement.

So what part of your training and clinical experience gave you special insight into the psychiatry match?

I know laypeople confuse physiatry and psychiatry all the time but I don't think that counts.

@Mass Effect is not at all a medical student, btw

All of the above quoted for truth, especially the part about me not being a med student. I've actually graduated residency, and in good standing, but thank you, @Piebaldi for your concern about my termination.

 

[IsWhat]

You might want to consider the reddit post linked to below. In my opinion, it’s a pretty compelling argument for psych’s *relative* competitiveness having increased a lot recently.



P.S. Future psych applicants: Don’t let this discourage you. If you do your research, swallow your pride and apply wisely you should be able to match, even if you have red flags like me.

These numbers don’t really tell the story though. People applying to psych with a >240 step 1 are much more likely to over apply to tier 1 programs and get burned - there were multiple people on SDN who did this last year. A 240 in ortho is a candidate who is applying to mostly community programs, while a 240 in Psychiatry is going to have a rank list with at least a handful of top 10 programs. The fact they have similar match percentages in this step 1 range literally demonstrates nothing about how competitive the specialty is.

 

[Piebaldi]

These numbers don’t really tell the story though. People applying to psych with a >240 step 1 are much more likely to over apply to tier 1 programs and get burned - there were multiple people on SDN who did this last year. A 240 in ortho is a candidate who is applying to mostly community programs, while a 240 in Psychiatry is going to have a rank list with at least a handful of top 10 programs. The fact they have similar match percentages in this step 1 range literally demonstrates nothing about how competitive the specialty is.

Precisely. But I guess Psych is the "new Derm." Too funny. Ok well good luck all.

 

[PsychApp777]

These numbers don’t really tell the story though. People applying to psych with a >240 step 1 are much more likely to over apply to tier 1 programs and get burned - there were multiple people on SDN who did this last year. A 240 in ortho is a candidate who is applying to mostly community programs, while a 240 in Psychiatry is going to have a rank list with at least a handful of top 10 programs. The fact they have similar match percentages in this step 1 range literally demonstrates nothing about how competitive the specialty is.

It demonstrates *nothing*? That’s a pretty bold claim, where the burden of proof is on you. However, I do think you have a point in proposing that people with 240’s in ortho likely apply differently from those with 240’s in psych.

 

[TexasPhysician]

@TexasPhysician What do you think the average step 1 score are places like utsw and JPS in fort worth?

Vastly different programs there. Currently, UTSW is the clear flagship program in the state in my opinion. Low odds of acceptance without being a US MD with no red flags and Step 1 above 220 at a minimum.

JPS is not well known and lacks fellowships last I checked. It is in Ft Worth which is a great city. US MD with no red flags likely gets you a shot there.

 

[Horners]

Precisely. But I guess Psych is the "new Derm." Too funny. Ok well good luck all.

I don’t think anyone said “psych is the new derm” I think most people were just anxious about psych becoming more competitive, generally speaking. But your defensiveness, appeal to authority and rude demeanor makes me wonder if you are LOSING something by something else becoming more competitive?

Also, I weren’t you a resident at one point? Didn’t you find it annoying when someone said they were right based on rank?

 

[Piebaldi]

I don’t think anyone said “psych is the new derm” I think most people were just anxious about psych becoming more competitive, generally speaking. But your defensiveness, appeal to authority and rude demeanor makes me wonder if you are LOSING something by something else becoming more competitive?

Also, I weren’t you a resident at one point? Didn’t you find it annoying when someone said they were right based on rank?

I never said I was right based on rank fyi. But as we go from students to residents to attendings, we gain knowledge, understanding, experience in things. Yes I thought I knew everything at certain points and felt my attendings were idiots. But most of the time they were right.

But it's like when people argue with APD or other attendings - there might, just might be a possibility that others might know more than you. It makes no difference to me if Psych became the new derm. And actually someone on that article said exactly that - and I think they said there is no question about it. But it is not uncommon for people in specialties that are not that competitive to feel the need to make the specialty super competitive because it makes them feel good. I think this is what's happening here. Psychiatry is still one of the LEAST competitive specialties out there comparatively, point that i am making.
Yes psych is more competitive now than 10 years ago just like everything else. But overall most specialties remain about the same in terms of competitiveness relatively. So among all specialties, again Psych is one of the least competitive. That does not make it a bad specialty at all. That's what the other person mentioning the 240 step 1 is trying to say. EVERY specialty is more competitive now becasue there are far far far more people in the match. So if before there were 200 applications, these days there are likely 400. Does that mean that Psych has become double in competitiveness? No.
It happens to all specialties.

 

[IsWhat]

It demonstrates *nothing*? That’s a pretty bold claim, where the burden of proof is on you. However, I do think you have a point in proposing that people with 240’s in ortho likely apply differently from those with 240’s in psych.

You can make numbers fit your story all day long. Politicians do this daily. But when you look at the average step 1 score of psych (still in the bottom quartile of specialties) and you look at the data you posted, all I did was point out the obvious explanation.

 

[Piebaldi]

You can make numbers fit your story all day long. Politicians do this daily. But when you look at the average step 1 score of psych (still in the bottom quartile of specialties) and you look at the data you posted, all I did was point out the obvious explanation.

It's futile. No point in explaining this point. I guess they think psych is the new derm lol.
Oh well. Foile a deux?
I'm done with this thread.

 

[GEToutLADYits6AM]

Vastly different programs there. Currently, UTSW is the clear flagship program in the state in my opinion. Low odds of acceptance without being a US MD with no red flags and Step 1 above 220 at a minimum.

JPS is not well known and lacks fellowships last I checked. It is in Ft Worth which is a great city. US MD with no red flags likely gets you a shot there.

Only a 220? Strange cause a friend of mine who nailed a 238 on step 1 couddn't even pull an interview at either places despite being a MD from Tech. Also, the average step 1 score for psychiatry is now a 226 so I would think it would be a bit higher than a 220

 

[drkurapika]

It's futile. No point in explaining this point. I guess they think psych is the new derm lol.
Oh well. Foile a deux?
I'm done with this thread.

What is the difference between a physiatrist and an LPN?

$500,000 in student debt

 

[Piebaldi]

What is the difference between a physiatrist and an LPN?

$500,000 in student debt

your post has been reported to mods for abusive behavior. So infantile.

 

[PsychApp777]

You can make numbers fit your story all day long. Politicians do this daily. But when you look at the average step 1 score of psych (still in the bottom quartile of specialties) and you look at the data you posted, all I did was point out the obvious explanation.

Obvious explanation...as in obvious to people other than you? Have you taken a survey?
I think the likely explanation to explain the low step 1 *average* is the existence of many small community programs that favor regional applicants with lower Step scores over “outsiders” with higher ones. Outsiders with high Step scores are VERY often snubbed based simply on their permanent addresses. It would be interesting to compare the average step 1 score of matched applicants in psych from large coastal cities with that of applicants from rural areas. I think this would demonstrate a bimodal distribution which would explain a low overall step 1 *average*.

 

[Piebaldi]

Obvious explanation...as in obvious to people other than you? Have you taken a survey?
I think the likely explanation to explain the low step 1 *average* is the existence of many small community programs that favor regional applicants with lower Step scores over “outsiders” with higher ones. Outsiders with high Step scores are VERY often snubbed based simply on their permanent addresses. It would be interesting to compare the average step 1 score of matched applicants in psych from large coastal cities with that of applicants from rural areas. I think this would demonstrate a bimodal distribution which would explain a low overall step 1 *average*.

More evidence regarding the "increased competitiveness" of Psych.

Challenges and Perspectives to the Rise in General Psychiatry Residency Applications

 

[IsWhat]

Obvious explanation...as in obvious to people other than you? Have you taken a survey?
I think the likely explanation to explain the low step 1 *average* is the existence of many small community programs that favor regional applicants with lower Step scores over “outsiders” with higher ones. Outsiders with high Step scores are VERY often snubbed based simply on their permanent addresses. It would be interesting to compare the average step 1 score of matched applicants in psych from large coastal cities vs. with that of applicants from rural areas. I think this would demonstrate a bimodal distribution which would explain a low overall step 1 *average*.

Many specialties (with higher average step scores than psychiatry) have community programs which favor applicants from their region. Even IF this scenario is valid - you would have a hard time convincing anyone this is the reason for step 1 scores in psychiatry being on average anywhere from 8 to 14 points lower than the competitive specialties your data has psychiatry compared to.

 

[Piebaldi]

Many specialties (with higher average step scores than psychiatry) have community programs which favor applicants from their region. Even IF this scenario is valid - you would have a hard time convincing anyone this is the reason for step 1 scores in psychiatry being on average anywhere from 8 to 14 points lower than the competitive specialties your data has psychiatry compared to.

I think you are wasting your time explaining this to them. They just want to believe Psych is truly that much more competitive and the new derm. Save your breath. I tried too. It's pointless.

 

[IsWhat]

I think you are wasting your time explaining this to them. They just want to believe Psych is truly that much more competitive and the new derm. Save your breath. I tried too. It's pointless.

Yeah, I tried.

 

[TexasPhysician]

Only a 220? Strange cause a friend of mine who nailed a 238 on step 1 couddn't even pull an interview at either places despite being a MD from Tech. Also, the average step 1 score for psychiatry is now a 226 so I would think it would be a bit higher than a 220

Pretty sure I stated that it was a minimum score. There is more to getting an interview than just step 1.

JPS and some other programs can be a bit odd. They don’t typically expect really good applicants to go there, so they spread out the interviews across competitive zones to ensure a successful match. If you are really competitive and really want JPS, I’d call them and explain why.

 

[clausewitz2]

I think you are wasting your time explaining this to them. They just want to believe Psych is truly that much more competitive and the new derm. Save your breath. I tried too. It's pointless.

Do you recognize that "it's more competitive relative to FM/peds than it used to be" and "it's the new derm" are incredibly different statements?

People in this thread keep saying the former and then you keep saying the later isn't true. You are an attending so I am assuming your reading comprehension is decent, so your failure to cogently engage with what is explicitly being said to you is puzzling. Why do you think this is proving so difficult for you?

I am totally in agreement with you that we are not derm or Ortho or even close. But then I think everyone else in this thread is as well.

 

[IsWhat]

Do you recognize that "it's more competitive relative to FM/peds than it used to be" and "it's the new derm" are incredibly different statements?

People in this thread keep saying the former and then you keep saying the later isn't true. You are an attending so I am assuming your reading comprehension is decent, so your failure to cogently engage with what is explicitly being said to you is puzzling. Why do you think this is proving so difficult for you?

I am totally in agreement with you that we are not derm or Ortho or even close. But then I think everyone else in this thread is as well.

There is a post in this thread that specifically states, “psych is one of the most competitive specialties now.” And we have certain users defending that sentiment with skewable data and less than satisfactory explanations.

 

[Piebaldi]

There is a post in this thread that specifically states, “psych is one of the most competitive specialties now.” And we have certain users defending that sentiment with skewable data and less than satisfactory explanations.

Precisely.

 

[clausewitz2]

Precisely.

Okay, but 85-90% of the comments have not been saying that. Yet again you skate away from the main point - what reason do you have, precisely, for denying a change in competitiveness in psychiatry relative to, say, pediatrics, or IM outside of the high-powered academic programs?

 

[clausewitz2]

There is a post in this thread that specifically states, “psych is one of the most competitive specialties now.” And we have certain users defending that sentiment with skewable data and less than satisfactory explanations.

I agree with your reservations about the match percentage data not being taken at face value. However, while I am sure it is possible to come up with a series of specific reasons why despite landing high on that particular metric it really should be at the bottom of the competitiveness list, this had a distinctly ad hoc flavor.

Your point about step scores is fine iff one imagined a single population sorting into different specialties mainly on step score. If, however, different populations are actually applying to different specialties that are not all selecting chiefly based on step score, then a) average step score by specialty isn't dispositive and b) you can still talk meaningfully about competitiveness as a function of how easy it is for applicants deciding to apply to a given specialty (and thus identifiable as a distinct population potentially) to successfully match.

Step scores matter now for psych but I assure you it is rarely the main criterion for us.

 

[Mass Effect]

I never said I was right based on rank fyi

Nah, you just said that people should agree with you because of rank. How does it skew your view now that you know I've graduated residency (which is fully searchable by the way before you start arguing that)? Perhaps you should look into your own manner of communication before you jump on others who disagree with you.

I'm done with this thread.

How many times have you said that or some variation of that?

 

[drkurapika]

Nah, you just said that people should agree with you because of rank. How does it skew your view now that you know I've graduated residency (which is fully searchable by the way before you start arguing that)? Perhaps you should look into your own manner of communication before you jump on others who disagree with you.



How many times have you said that or some variation of that?

Everyone is just feeding the trolls. Eventually they will finally leave and troll another specialty.

 

[AD04]

Hey OP,

It seems like there are quite a few people in the same boat as you:



Solid US medical students who didn't match into psychiatry.

The best way to maximize your chance of getting into psychiatry is to make connections. I know of people who should not have gotten into residency but got in because they knew the right people. Then try applying to psychiatry again next year, but also apply to FM as backup.

In FM, you will also see a lot of psychiatric disorders and you can have the option for a cash / concierge practice. And the demand for FM is huge -- possibly more than the demand for psychiatry.

 

[IsWhat]

I agree with your reservations about the match percentage data not being taken at face value. However, while I am sure it is possible to come up with a series of specific reasons why despite landing high on that particular metric it really should be at the bottom of the competitiveness list, this had a distinctly ad hoc flavor.

Your point about step scores is fine iff one imagined a single population sorting into different specialties mainly on step score. If, however, different populations are actually applying to different specialties that are not all selecting chiefly based on step score, then a) average step score by specialty isn't dispositive and b) you can still talk meaningfully about competitiveness as a function of how easy it is for applicants deciding to apply to a given specialty (and thus identifiable as a distinct population potentially) to successfully match.

Step scores matter now for psych but I assure you it is rarely the main criterion for us.

So, basically what you are saying is; it is equally difficult for an average psychiatry applicant to earn a spot in Psychiatry as it is for an average applicant in, say, the dermatology pool to earn a dermatology spot. As a general principal I would agree with this. But, in my opinion, part of what makes a specialty “competitive” is how hard it is to actually build an application in medical school for said specialty. Over half of derm applicants were AOA last year. That’s insane.

Truthfully, I hope I am not offending anyone. I love this specialty.

 

[hallowmann]

OP, @Drrrrrr. Celty, and others in the same boat, hang in there. I actually know a few people that did IM/FM and did a behavioral health fellowship or addiction fellowship after IM/FM, and some that actually did IM and then did a Psych residency.

The funding issue isn't as bad as it sounds. Its not actually 0 funding, but rather only 1/2-2/3 of the funding per spot. For many big institutions, it also doesn't matter as much because they are likely beyond their capped funding for spots to begin with. For some, they have even more funding because the of direct vs indirect Medicare funding sources (don't ask me for more details, every time I look into it, I spend a ton of time only to retain the knowledge for a solid 30 min before forgetting it all again in a jumble of financial terms, just suffice it to say that this is not as big of a problem as it sounds).

I would strongly encourage you both to learn as much about psychiatry as you can, make it your niche (should be easier as it is your interest), and then realize how useful that knowledge really is in both IM and FM.

So what part of your training and clinical experience gave you special insight into the psychiatry match?

I know laypeople confuse physiatry and psychiatry all the time but I don't think that counts.

@Mass Effect is not at all a medical student, btw

Thought the bolded was hilarious when he pulled the "I'm an attending, you're a med student, I'm not listening to you, you will be begging us for advice when you are in trouble in residency"-card.

My brother is a physiatrist. Can confirm that they are frequently confused with psych. Funnily enough he often refers to physiatry as the "least respected medical specialty," then I remind him that a lot of people don't consider psychiatry a "medical" specialty. I think its a running joke that half the specialties consider themselves the least respected

In any case, I'll weigh in this argument only to say that the rate of change of competitiveness of psychiatry has been greater than many other fields. It is not "competitive," but it certainly is more competitive as compared to other fields (FM, Peds, community IM, PM&R, etc.), than it was. Certainly increased applications and increased numbers of AMGs have significantly affected the competitiveness of most specialties, but its not the whole story with Psych, and its present across the board in terms of specialties, so if it were the whole story, we would see similar changes in other fields.

Now here's some actual numbers from the Charting Outcomes of 2014 and 2018: I'm using US MD Step 1 scores as simply one metric, because its the easiest to quantify (its already quantified).

Psych:
2014 CO US MD Step 1 average: 220 matched, 205 unmatched
2018 CO US MD Step 1 average: 226 matched, 215 unmatched

FM:
2014 CO US MD Step 1 average: 218 matched, 201 unmatched
2018 CO US MD Step 1 average: 220 matched, 206 unmatched

Peds:
2014 CO US MD Step 1 average: 226 matched, 206 unmatched
2018 CO US MD Step 1 average: 227 matched, 209 unmatched

IM:
2014 CO US MD Step 1 average: 231 matched, 210 unmatched
2018 CO US MD Step 1 average: 233 matched, 207 unmatched

PM&R:
2014 CO US MD Step 1 average: 220 matched, 211 unmatched
2018 CO US MD Step 1 average: 225 matched, 215 unmatched

As you can see, Psychiatry's Step 1 average increased by 6 points in those 4 yrs, more than any of those other specialties. In addition, its unmatched average also increased, by 10 points, more than double the change of any of the other specialties listed above (in fact IM went down by 3 points). There is certainly something that has changed in psychiatry during that time, and it cannot simply be written off as "increased applicants" or "increased applications" because virtually every field has experienced the same, yet Psychiatry has demonstrated the most change.

Charting outcomes 2014 and 2018 for those interested.

 

[clausewitz2]

So, basically what you are saying is; it is equally difficult for an average psychiatry applicant to earn a spot in Psychiatry as it is for an average applicant in, say, the dermatology pool to earn a dermatology spot. As a general principal I would agree with this. But, in my opinion, part of what makes a specialty “competitive” is how hard it is to actually build an application in medical school for said specialty. Over half of derm applicants were AOA last year. That’s insane.

Truthfully, I hope I am not offending anyone. I love this specialty.

Man, I don't really understand how to say this differently. Psych is not as competitive as derm. Like at all. We agree on that part. What (almost) everyone has been saying is that psych is no longer a bottom of the barrel safety specialty in the way it used to be.

Your points are all legit, but sort of orthogonal.

 

[IsWhat]

Man, I don't really understand how to say this differently. Psych is not as competitive as derm. Like at all. We agree on that part. What (almost) everyone has been saying is that psych is no longer a bottom of the barrel safety specialty in the way it used to be.

Your points are all legit, but sort of orthogonal.

Right, and I don’t know how many times I can this - when (some) posters quote a survey that insinuates psychiatry is “one of the most competitive specialties now” - that’s who these posts are geared towards. I understand you and most people in this thread don’t actually believe psych is as competitive as derm. But a few do. Also, there are no bottom of the barrel specialties anymore.

 

[clausewitz2]

Right, and I don’t know how many times I can this - when (some) posters quote a survey that insinuates psychiatry is “one of the most competitive specialties now” - that’s who these posts are geared towards. I understand you and most people in this thread don’t actually believe psych is as competitive as derm. But a few do. Also, there are no bottom of the barrel specialties anymore.

So why respond to me talking about derm after i keep saying explicitly I am not one of those people? Logically there must be a least competitive specialty if they can be compared at all, but we can set that aside for now. Regardless, you see the difference between ''more competitive" and "most.competitive," I assume.

Because it seems like @Piebaldi , not so much

 

[IsWhat]

So why respond to me talking about derm after i keep saying explicitly I am not one of those people? Logically there must be a least competitive specialty if they can be compared at all, but we can set that aside for now. Regardless, you see the difference between ''more competitive" and "most.competitive," I assume.

Because it seems like @Piebaldi , not so much

I used derm as a placeholder for any number of competitive specialties. If I had used ortho, or interventional radiology, or neurosurgery the spirit of my post would have remained the same. I’m not sure why you are so stuck on the derm thing. Remove derm from all of my posts and insert Ortho for all I care.

 

[clausewitz2]

I used derm as a placeholder for any number of competitive specialties. If I had used ortho, or interventional radiology, or neurosurgery the spirit of my post would have remained the same. I’m not sure why you are so stuck on the derm thing. Remove derm from all of my posts and insert Ortho for all I care.

But that's the point - I keep saying the comparison is competitiveness relative to other specialties as a whole (especially the other lower competitiveness specialties like IM/FM/peds etc). The continued assertion that Ortho or IR are more competitive is a)true and b) irrelevant.

 

[Horners]

I never said I was right based on rank fyi. But as we go from students to residents to attendings, we gain knowledge, understanding, experience in things. Yes I thought I knew everything at certain points and felt my attendings were idiots. But most of the time they were right.

But it's like when people argue with APD or other attendings - there might, just might be a possibility that others might know more than you. It makes no difference to me if Psych became the new derm. And actually someone on that article said exactly that - and I think they said there is no question about it. But it is not uncommon for people in specialties that are not that competitive to feel the need to make the specialty super competitive because it makes them feel good. I think this is what's happening here. Psychiatry is still one of the LEAST competitive specialties out there comparatively, point that i am making.
Yes psych is more competitive now than 10 years ago just like everything else. But overall most specialties remain about the same in terms of competitiveness relatively. So among all specialties, again Psych is one of the least competitive. That does not make it a bad specialty at all. That's what the other person mentioning the 240 step 1 is trying to say. EVERY specialty is more competitive now becasue there are far far far more people in the match. So if before there were 200 applications, these days there are likely 400. Does that mean that Psych has become double in competitiveness? No.
It happens to all specialties.

When people say “psych is the new derm” they’re typically talking about hours and income... not competitiveness of speciality.

You are right more people apply generally. More people do not apply proportionally. More people applied to psych disproportionally than before. Hence more competitiveness. Is it neurosurgery and ortho and derm? No.

With less applicants(back in your day) there were like 0.7 USMD/1 Spot.

Today there are like 1.5 USMD/1 spot.

However notably. Something like derm was 1.5 USMD/1 spot in the past and now it’s like 2.5 USMD/1 spot.

These numbers aren’t exact. I’m just trying to illustrate a point.

Relative increase in competition has increased more for psych than for other things. The same thing happened to pm&r a couple years ago in fact.

Calm tf down. No one is attacking you.

 

[Piebaldi]

When people say “psych is the new derm” they’re typically talking about hours and income... not competitiveness of speciality.

You are right more people apply generally. More people do not apply proportionally. More people applied to psych disproportionally than before. Hence more competitiveness. Is it neurosurgery and ortho and derm? No.

With less applicants(back in your day) there were like 0.7 USMD/1 Spot.

Today there are like 1.5 USMD/1 spot.

However notably. Something like derm was 1.5 USMD/1 spot in the past and now it’s like 2.5 USMD/1 spot.

These numbers aren’t exact. I’m just trying to illustrate a point.

Relative increase in competition has increased more for psych than for other things. The same thing happened to pm&r a couple years ago in fact.

Calm tf down. No one is attacking you.

And income? Really? You think Psychiatrists make the same as Dermatologists? Yikes. Folie a deux indeed! I am sorry, I think Psych is a fine specialty but it is still one of the least competitive specialties out there period. That's just reality. There is nothing wrong with going into Psych. We need good Psychiatrists. But to think that Psych and Derm make the same that is laughable.

 

[Taddy Mason]

...Don't become defensive. It's a poor defense mechanism....

...It always amazes me to see people come to the forum and then question everything they are told...

Quitting for fellowship

 

[Amygdarya]

Folie a deux indeed!

Repeating a foreign language term without understanding what it means doesn’t make you look smarter. At least avoid dropping it on the psychiatry subforum where people know what it actually means.

 

[Mass Effect]

Quitting for fellowship

Priceless. Thanks for the blast from the (not-too-distant) past, @Taddy Mason

 

[samac]

Quitting for fellowship

You’re my hero.